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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

minigundiplomat 30th Mar 2021 04:34


It's never been about the ~1% fatality rate.

Say these three words slowly. Overloaded. Health. System.
So why are we taking back Australians from overseas? Hotel quarantine is, either directly or indirectly, responsible for all new cases and has been since May/June last year. So what activities are aimed at reducing overloaded health system, and which aren't?

Try saying these three words slowly. Health.Needs.Funding

compressor stall 30th Mar 2021 05:15

Because the government has (rightly in principle, but poorly in execution) determined that a slightly open border (for controlled return of expats and continuation of flight crews for freighters etc) outweighs medical risks of a virus escape turning into an overloaded health system. The mitigator is lockdowns.

Re funding - How many ICU rooms can you build and equip from scratch in - say - 6 months? Or maybe 12 months? And how many frontline health workers would we have spare if it spread like Europe or USA? Would they have been built in time to stop the health system being overloaded? With a huge country like AU with many regional areas remote from hospital facilities it would be a disaster. That's why many communities have been off limits. In WA you fly a pregnant woman the same distance as London to Budapest to get to hospital if she goes into labor more than 4 weeks early.

Buttscratcher 30th Mar 2021 05:20

I'm getting a bit tired of these knee-jerk Lockdowns.
Crippling a city again because some infected returnee in a hotel gave it to a guard who went free-range.
I'd like to know how these 6 people are doing...are they really friggin' sick? Is one of them going to die?
Sure would like Channel 10 to do a story on this, but I'm guessing that there is nothing much exciting to relate.

dr dre 30th Mar 2021 05:40


Originally Posted by Buttscratcher (Post 11018942)
I'm getting a bit tired of these knee-jerk Lockdowns.
Crippling a city again because some infected returnee in a hotel gave it to a guard who went free-range.
I'd like to know how these 6 people are doing...are they really friggin' sick? Is one of them going to die?
Sure would like Channel 10 to do a story on this, but I'm guessing that there is nothing much exciting to relate.

It does seem frustrating, but every wide scale outbreak which overwhelmed a health system started with 1 or 2 patients. If the level of underlying positive cases circulating in the community isnít stamped out by the time winter comes around theyíll increase exponentially.

Of course immunisation stops that. The government needs to ensure all workers within 50m of a potential Covid case are fully vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.

The more vaccinations the less strict precautions will need to be. As pilots the best we can do is get vaccinated and then become braggarts. Tell everyone we know we got vaccinated and encourage them to do the same, show itís safe, quick and free. Itís the only way this lockdown/closure/isolation cycle will end.

ScepticalOptomist 30th Mar 2021 05:54


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11018926)
i dont disagree, but here is a forum for people needing class 1 medical cert, are you willing to take the chance? (Im not talking for post vaccination)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53196009

i know this is only 1 example, but he'll never fly again

I understand your point. I just donít think itís worse than all the other ways we lose our Medicals. Diabetes / Coronary Disease / Cancer etc are much worse. The under-reaction to those diseases makes the over-reaction to CV that much worse.

dr dre 30th Mar 2021 06:56


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11018949)
I understand your point. I just donít think itís worse than all the other ways we lose our Medicals. Diabetes / Coronary Disease / Cancer etc are much worse. The under-reaction to those diseases makes the over-reaction to CV that much worse.

Can you catch coronary disease from being in a close space for a few minutes with someone who has coronary disease?

Can you catch diabetes from touching the same door handle that someone with diabetes did?

Sometimes pilots should just stick to piloting.......

SHVC 30th Mar 2021 08:10

Gladys has done an outstanding job so far, her downfall will be allowing the bluefest music festival to go ahead. This will be end of NSW streak which will result in a state wide outbreak. We will be back to where we were in April last year.

wheels_down 30th Mar 2021 08:13

Seems like Melbourne is the place to be now!

Brisbane was going to fall over eventually just a matter of when.

Why are unvaccinated nurses dealing with positive cases with the assorted strains? Madness.

Icarus2001 30th Mar 2021 08:20


Can you catch coronary disease from being in a close space for a few minutes with someone who has coronary disease?
No but 3000 people take their own life in Australia each year.

Another 3000 people a year die in car accidents. Should we ban cars as well?

chookcooker 30th Mar 2021 08:30


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 11019013)
Seems like Melbourne is the place to be now!

Brisbane was going to fall over eventually just a matter of when.

Why are unvaccinated nurses dealing with positive cases with the assorted strains? Madness.

meanwhile that health care backwater of the USA is pumping out 3.5 MILLION shots a day. Ok even on a per capita ratio we should be at 350,000 but noÖÖ Australian exceptionalism

ScepticalOptomist 30th Mar 2021 08:56


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11018975)
Can you catch coronary disease from being in a close space for a few minutes with someone who has coronary disease?

Can you catch diabetes from touching the same door handle that someone with diabetes did?

Sometimes pilots should just stick to piloting.......

I think you missed the point again.
Itís ok that we disagree on this. Someone had to vote for Labor and buy into the ďchicken littleĒ song and dance.

maggot 30th Mar 2021 08:57


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 11019013)
Seems like Melbourne is the place to be now!

Brisbane was going to fall over eventually just a matter of when.

Why are unvaccinated nurses dealing with positive cases with the assorted strains? Madness.

why arent they and the doctors in iso

Ladloy 30th Mar 2021 09:01


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11019021)
No but 3000 people take their own life in Australia each year.

Another 3000 people a year die in car accidents. Should we ban cars as well?

There's licensing, policing, awareness campaigns and once upon a time people protested seatbelts, just like the fools protesting masks.

Icarus2001 30th Mar 2021 09:09


just like the fools protesting masks
Well perhaps because the Australian government even mid 2020 was saying they were not required.

goodonyamate 30th Mar 2021 09:11


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019010)
Gladys has done an outstanding job so far, her downfall will be allowing the bluefest music festival to go ahead. This will be end of NSW streak which will result in a state wide outbreak. We will be back to where we were in April last year.


probably wait a day or two then make a decision I reckon. The testing queís in Byron today were huuuuge. Any positive results she might can it. If itís all clear, thereís a chance Byron might have escaped this one.

utter incompetence from the Queensland government. Given the way P and Miles carried on, it was only a matter of time.

aviation_enthus 30th Mar 2021 11:11


Originally Posted by Tubman601 (Post 11018885)
The vaccine doesnít stop you getting COVID, it just makes it less severe if you do get it.

Once upon a time a scientist somewhere reported ďpossibleĒ or ďa chanceĒ that the vaccine may not prevent infection. Once that headline goes out, itís incredibly hard to change the narrative (even with clear results suggesting otherwise!).

Real world results in countries doing a far better job of vaccinations (USA/UK/Israel/UAE) would suggest the vaccine DRAMATICALLY lowers your chance of getting infected, let alone passing it on to someone else.

Overall, there were 170 SARS-CoV-2 infections among HCWs in the period between Dec 19, 2020, and Jan 24, 2021, of which 99 (58%) HCWs reported symptoms and were designated as COVID-19 cases. Of the 170 HCWs who became infected, 89 (52%) were unvaccinated, 78 (46%) tested positive after the first dose, and three (2%) tested positive after the second dose. Among the 125 infections that could be traced, 87 (70%) were community acquired and there were no nosocomial clusters.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...448-7/fulltext


A case control study, which has been peer reviewed and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, compared 596 618 people who were newly vaccinated in Israel and matched them to unvaccinated controls. Two doses of the mRNA vaccine reduced symptomatic cases by 94%, hospitalisation by 87%, and severe covid-19 by 92%, according to the data from the Clalit Institute for Research which is Israelís biggest healthcare provider.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n567


The ONLY thing that will change your life and get aviation back up and running in Australia, is saying YES to a vaccine when itís your turn.

*For the record, Iím overseas in a country that actually gets s*** done. Wife and I have already had both doses, so we are keen to see Australia get a move on so we can actually visit family again.


Thanks faction, the link below should be widely shared and reported on!!


Originally Posted by faction (Post 11018904)
A new study by the CDC shows that a single dose provides an 80% reduction in the risk of infection, not just illness. The second dose improves that again.

"Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status; vaccine effectiveness of partial immunization (≥14 days after first dose but before second dose) was 80%."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm


SOPS 30th Mar 2021 11:47

The lock down in Brisbane wonít end on Thursday ( my thoughts).


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-...down/100039466

blubak 30th Mar 2021 20:25


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 11019077)
probably wait a day or two then make a decision I reckon. The testing queís in Byron today were huuuuge. Any positive results she might can it. If itís all clear, thereís a chance Byron might have escaped this one.

utter incompetence from the Queensland government. Given the way P and Miles carried on, it was only a matter of time.

Nobody wanted to see this happen but as you say the way P & miles carried on its nice to see them get a slap in the face. They were so arrogant & thought themselves invincible.
Hopefully there arent more cases today & everybody can look forward to easter being somewhat as planned.

SHVC 30th Mar 2021 20:31

Going off the news this morning, Brisbane cluster has expanded waiting to be confirmed. Easter is not looking good now and with NT are on the fore foot by declaring Byron Bay a hot spot anticipating an out break there. I wonder if the emperor of the West will just close to NSW for being idiotic and continuing with the Byron Bay blues festival.

blubak 30th Mar 2021 21:05


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019462)
Going off the news this morning, Brisbane cluster has expanded waiting to be confirmed. Easter is not looking good now and with NT are on the fore foot by declaring Byron Bay a hot spot anticipating an out break there. I wonder if the emperor of the West will just close to NSW for being idiotic and continuing with the Byron Bay blues festival.

If cluster has grown you can bet the lockdown will be extended.
Hopefully Byron bay shows no more cases but always a chance.
Although they are saying all healthcare staff will get the jab,wouldnt it be appropriate for ALL healthcare & hotel quarantine staff to be tested at the start of every shift so that the chances of a transmission happening are reduced as much as possible.
As far as states slamming borders shut i guess its really a case of them being dammed if they do & dammed if they dont,the people in the unaffected states dont want it to enter so not an easy choice,just my opinion,many will disagree so no easy choice.

SHVC 30th Mar 2021 21:10

It was also reported the original cases in Brisbane Dr and Nurse had not been vaccinated. It’s been discovered QLD and other states including NSW have been with holding up to 40% of doses on the shelf incase of short fall for the second jab even after the federal gov have assured them of enough supply now. States are responsible for this Australia is an embarrassment after seeing the statistics of the UK and USA

Foxxster 30th Mar 2021 21:48


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019477)
It was also reported the original cases in Brisbane Dr and Nurse had not been vaccinated. Itís been discovered QLD and other states including NSW have been with holding up to 40% of doses on the shelf incase of short fall for the second jab even after the federal gov have assured them of enough supply now. States are responsible for this Australia is an embarrassment after seeing the statistics of the UK and USA

would have happened even if they were vaccinated as the vaccine doesnít stop you getting it.

and something I have been saying for a while now about the vaccines themselves.

Two-thirds of global disease experts believe coronavirus variants will make vaccines ineffective within ONE YEAR

  • Surveyors interviewed 77 epidemiologists, virologists and infectious disease specialists about coronavirus vaccines
  • A total of 66.2% said they believe that within one year, mutations of the virus will render vaccines ineffective
  • Of that group, 18.2% said they believed it would occur within six months and 32.5% said within nine months
  • Another 18.2% said vaccines would be ineffective within two years while 7.8% said they believed mutations would never cause vaccines to become ineffective

SHVC 30th Mar 2021 21:51

I know it does not, but it can reduce the severity in most cases and preventing things like death which is what everyone is worried about right?

Foxxster 30th Mar 2021 22:10


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019497)
I know it does not, but it can reduce the severity in most cases and preventing things like death which is what everyone is worried about right?

yep, but none of those tested appear to be sick at all.

looks like Gold Coast will go into LOCKDOWN today.

patty50 30th Mar 2021 22:14


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019497)
I know it does not, but it can reduce the severity in most cases and preventing things like death which is what everyone is worried about right?

Itís been nearly 6 months since anyone has died from an acute COVID infection in Australia. We are well and truly beyond worrying about deaths, zero cases is the only acceptable COVID status. Which is why borders will not reopen until the vaccines prevent infection.

ruprecht 30th Mar 2021 22:33


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 11019508)
zero cases is the only acceptable COVID status

Yeah, thatís not going to happen.

kingRB 30th Mar 2021 23:16

AstraZeneca Vaccine suspended in Canada now for anyone under 55 years of age

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...d-19-1.5968657

faction 30th Mar 2021 23:20


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11019496)
would have happened even if they were vaccinated as the vaccine doesnít stop you getting it.

That's incorrect https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm

markis10 30th Mar 2021 23:33


Originally Posted by faction (Post 11019536)

Vaccines are not 100% effective, as evidenced by one of todayís new cases in Queensland that had been previously immunised, but they are not far off 100% depending on the variant.

Icarus2001 30th Mar 2021 23:46


The lock down in Brisbane won’t end on Thursday ( my thoughts).
After the 9:00 am press briefing I think it looks positive for an end to lockdown on Thursday. Only three cases.

Chronic Snoozer 30th Mar 2021 23:54


Originally Posted by markis10 (Post 11019540)
Vaccines are not 100% effective, as evidenced by one of todayís new cases in Queensland that had been previously immunised, but they are not far off 100% depending on the variant.

We can survive even if we don't achieve zero COVID cases, we can survive if vaccines aren't 100% effective. We just need to get to a point where CHOs are confident hospital systems won't be overloaded leading to preventable deaths. (WA isn't in good shape in this regard apparently, hence hard border stance) So give me a few hotspots, most of the population vaccinated with a >70% effective vaccine and let's get on with living. It's all hypothetical unless the government accelerates the vaccination program such that the vaccines remain effective in light of a mutating virus. Otherwise it will be an endless game of catch up.

ScepticalOptomist 31st Mar 2021 00:00


Originally Posted by kingRB (Post 11019533)
AstraZeneca Vaccine suspended in Canada now for anyone under 55 years of age

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...d-19-1.5968657

An easy, risk free stance to take as they have multiple vaccines available. Always easier to err on the side of caution when it wonít affect much. Doesnít mean itís not safe to use, only that there is some risk.

ScepticalOptomist 31st Mar 2021 00:02


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11019547)
We can survive even if we don't achieve zero COVID cases, we can survive if vaccines aren't 100% effective. We just need to get to a point where CHOs are confident hospital systems won't be overloaded leading to preventable deaths. (WA isn't in good shape in this regard apparently, hence hard border stance) So give me a few hotspots, most of the population vaccinated with a >70% effective vaccine and let's get on with living. It's all hypothetical unless the government accelerates the vaccination program such that the vaccines remain effective in light of a mutating virus. Otherwise it will be an endless game of catch up.

Exactly right. Our politicians now need to get this message across to all of the scared little children theyíve kept scared.

SHVC 31st Mar 2021 01:38

Well here we go again. I’m sure Emporer of the west will be closing to NSW by tonight. Confirmed case in Byron after press release this morning.

jrfsp 31st Mar 2021 01:43


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11019573)
Well here we go again. Iím sure Emporer of the west will be closing to NSW by tonight. Confirmed case in Byron after press release this morning.

I wouldn't be surprised unfortunately, it is ridiculous - they really need a hotspot system. However i reckon all other states will also move to make the northern rivers region a hotspot. Certainly a blow for the busy Easter period

Chris2303 31st Mar 2021 05:19

Meanwhile....something on which to ponder

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...6fa4c1a8faebc4


minigundiplomat 31st Mar 2021 05:49


Meanwhile....something on which to ponder

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...6fa4c1a8faebc4
My spidey senses pricked up when I read the words 'terrifying percentage'. No mention of sample size, did they study 10 people, or 10,000? Heaven forbid I should have poor memory 8 months after COVID.......

Looks like Dr Dre science.

ruprecht 31st Mar 2021 06:02

I’m interested in any preexisting comorbidities among the long-Covid group, including the BMI of those affected. Does anyone have access to that data?

Troo believer 31st Mar 2021 08:43


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11019628)
Iím interested in any preexisting comorbidities among the long-Covid group, including the BMI of those affected. Does anyone have access to that data?

Fat chance mate. Seriously if youíre so interested google scholarly articles, Lancet in particular, and read for a few hours then get back to us.
If youíre fat, or a smoker, an old fart or all three then youíre fu*#ed.

compressor stall 31st Mar 2021 11:59


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11019624)
My spidey senses pricked up when I read the words 'terrifying percentage'. No mention of sample size, did they study 10 people, or 10,000? Heaven forbid I should have poor memory 8 months after COVID.......

Looks like Dr Dre science.

Love the fact you use a Newscorp journalist reporting on a scientific study omitting to mention the sample size as a basis for discrediting the study. Quite an achievement.


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