Network EBA
Interesting that you mention public interest. The requested suspension of PIA due to the public safety aspect of the cyclone redeveloping is absolute proof that pilots are critical to infrastructure. The company only values your presence when you’re NOT there…it speaks volumes as to our worth!
PS $24500 raised for Network Pilots. An industry turning point!
PS $24500 raised for Network Pilots. An industry turning point!
Interesting that you mention public interest. The requested suspension of PIA due to the public safety aspect of the cyclone redeveloping is absolute proof that pilots are critical to infrastructure. The company only values your presence when you’re NOT there…it speaks volumes as to our worth!
PS $24500 raised for Network Pilots. An industry turning point!
PS $24500 raised for Network Pilots. An industry turning point!
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And yet many here consider that mainline SH terms and conditions are those to which all others should be compared; an agreement with which the AFAP has had nothing to do with.
Meanwhile, the other group EA’s, which have been the domain of the AFAP, are mostly, by their own admission, bouncing along, barely above the award, if not below.
It’s about results, not short term, feel good sugar hits, like PIA for no other reason but to ‘stick it to the company’.
So by all means, try to find a connection between PIA and the actual advancements of pilot conditions, however I’m not sure history reads the way you think it does.
And yet many here consider that mainline SH terms and conditions are those to which all others should be compared; an agreement with which the AFAP has had nothing to do with.
Meanwhile, the other group EA’s, which have been the domain of the AFAP, are mostly, by their own admission, bouncing along, barely above the award, if not below.
It’s about results, not short term, feel good sugar hits, like PIA for no other reason but to ‘stick it to the company’.
So by all means, try to find a connection between PIA and the actual advancements of pilot conditions, however I’m not sure history reads the way you think it does.
Meanwhile, the other group EA’s, which have been the domain of the AFAP, are mostly, by their own admission, bouncing along, barely above the award, if not below.
It’s about results, not short term, feel good sugar hits, like PIA for no other reason but to ‘stick it to the company’.
So by all means, try to find a connection between PIA and the actual advancements of pilot conditions, however I’m not sure history reads the way you think it does.
And yet many here consider that mainline SH terms and conditions are those to which all others should be compared; an agreement with which the AFAP has had nothing to do with.
Meanwhile, the other group EA’s, which have been the domain of the AFAP, are mostly, by their own admission, bouncing along, barely above the award, if not below.
It’s about results, not short term, feel good sugar hits, like PIA for no other reason but to ‘stick it to the company’.
So by all means, try to find a connection between PIA and the actual advancements of pilot conditions, however I’m not sure history reads the way you think it does.
Meanwhile, the other group EA’s, which have been the domain of the AFAP, are mostly, by their own admission, bouncing along, barely above the award, if not below.
It’s about results, not short term, feel good sugar hits, like PIA for no other reason but to ‘stick it to the company’.
So by all means, try to find a connection between PIA and the actual advancements of pilot conditions, however I’m not sure history reads the way you think it does.
Lessons are learnt from EA to EA, that’s why ‘generally’ you get something slightly better each time. A business like NAA has only been around 20-30 years and started at a lot lower conditions than SH. It takes time for things to improve.
Arguing that one Union is better than the other makes you look like a child.
The best Pilot EAs come about when the Unions work together despite occasional differing opinions.
It sounds like you’re not interested in any other approach.
NAA pilots deserve better and best of luck to all involved.
Gentle and cooperative has not done the pilot groups any good in the last 15 years.
Plus AIPA clearly only has the interests of the senior pilots at the forefront of their minds, otherwise there’d be no B scale for S/O’s.
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I’’m happy to concede that I can’t definitively, 100% prove that AIPA’s actions over, say, the last 20 years produced the absolute best results, if you concede that you can’t, 100% prove otherwise?
A lot of IR decisions are based on an educated best guess. Nothing is guaranteed. Claiming otherwise is misleading.
Afaps approach is the only approach that actually will get anything from the company. AIPA may have got the qf short haul conditions better back in the 90 and 00’s but it’s a very different beast now compared to back then and the are more than happy going to war with all there staff. Sadly there is no negotiations that work with the company. It’s stall for a few years then either 3 percent or give up something or threaten. Why anyone in a subsidiary or even mainline would be with aipa is beyond me. They would throw you under the bus to serve their own agenda. They are way to close to the company. Well done network pilots. I hope this is the turning of the tide for our industry.
I don't think you can compare the SH EBA with what is going on in the USA at the moment and hold it up as a shining beacon for all Australian pilots to aspire to. Yes, the USA isn't Australia, 1500 hour rule etc, but there is a huge gap.
The problem is mate, it’s quite evident that the tactics used by AIPA in recent years just clearly aren’t working anymore. So a new approach is needed, and as others have said, PIA is the most effective tool available to us now.
Gentle and cooperative has not done the pilot groups any good in the last 15 years.
Gentle and cooperative has not done the pilot groups any good in the last 15 years.
Wear red ties and make PAs = locked out and off to the FWC to get a determination.
Multiple guns to the head of AIPA - sign this slightly better than crap contract or we’ll send the new fleet elsewhere.
It’s like trying to fight Mike Tyson for your life with one arm tied behind your back.
So considering the industrial landscape of the last 15 years it could’ve been a lot worse.
All that said, maybe now is the time to take a swing with the arm that’s free. I guess we’ll soon see whether PIA is effective and I really hope it is!
None of that excuses the behaviour of one or two past presidents who used their positions for personal gain but that’s another story.
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The fact is the industry is moving on and as stated earlier supply and demand wins out and will dictate better wages for pilots.
I was meant to reply to you a few days ago but here it is: everything you write on this forum is utter bs trying to scare network pilots into signing yes because there’s a small, very unlikely chance things may not go in favour of the pilots.
Your mate I Need Of A Change has disappeared. You should too. Keep scabbing. Scab and then drive home to your Maddington bucket of **** being content on signing off an unfair wage for a group of heavily under paid and exploited professionals. Bet you’re a blast to fly with. Day returns must suit you as you’d never get asked out for a beer. Or you’re a desk jockey.
Simp. A simp who is scared you won’t hit your KPIs.
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Afaps approach is the only approach that actually will get anything from the company. AIPA may have got the qf short haul conditions better back in the 90 and 00’s but it’s a very different beast now compared to back then and the are more than happy going to war with all there staff. Sadly there is no negotiations that work with the company. It’s stall for a few years then either 3 percent or give up something or threaten. Why anyone in a subsidiary or even mainline would be with aipa is beyond me. They would throw you under the bus to serve their own agenda. They are way too close to the company. Well done network pilots. I hope this is the turning of the tide for our industry.
Being the top conditions has put a target on their back and Qantas have tried every trick in the book, over decades, to cut them down;
starting a new airline, using a foreign AOC, buying up subsidiaries to take over the flying, locking-out pilots during PIA, overt and public threats to start a greenfields operation if an EA is not signed, etc, etc. Yet after 20+ years of this Mainline still has the best EA’s in the country, no pilot has been made redundant and there are no less jobs in mainline now than 20 years ago.
AFAP were never confronted with these company tactics in negotiating the JQ, EFA or Network EA’s, yet all 3 were sitting below the industry safety net up until a year ago. So (some of) those pilots would have been paid more if their AFAP negotiated EA’s were ripped up. Some achievement.
So before you rewrite history. Look at the actual results achieved and the circumstances involved.
I sincerely hope the Network pilots achieve a big win and get the conditions they deserve. With no threat to move the flying elsewhere and the Award guaranteeing conditions can’t be reduced from where they are, you’re in a perfect position to push hard for what you’re worth.
It will be the pilots themselves who deserve the credit for bucking the advice of both unions and the company demands, and pushing for what they really deserve.
Good luck.
Last edited by Beer Baron; 22nd Feb 2024 at 01:56.
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