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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 00:22
  #701 (permalink)  
 
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I think itís awesome we have people from Mainline donating, and other airlines. You are helping the majority. There is a small minority at network who have been going to work. Iím not talking about the people that pick the odd day here and there so they can actually pay the mortgage or the ones not covered by AFAP to even strike Iím talking about the people extending and accepting payments to do shifts that donít comply with the current EA and roster protocol to bag some extra cash for their extremely selfish self.

Thanks to all that have donated it really is making a huge difference not only for those financially in need but also knowing that others have our backs.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 00:30
  #702 (permalink)  
 
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Guys/gals, there is vastly more solidarity than short term financial opportunism on display here. I am simply blown away by the level of support we are receiving throughout the industry. Whatever reasons the small minority have for picking up flights and Ďhelping the company outí arenít even worth dwelling on- the overall strategy is working and if Qantas donít get an IB declaration they are going to be in serious trouble.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 01:52
  #703 (permalink)  
 
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Every flight deck in Australia is backing the Network Pilots. Go you good things !!!!
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 02:04
  #704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Drag it out I say. Then all EBAs will be under negotiation at the same time and pilots can strike in unison. They wonít be using RAAF Hercs to break this one and no one from OS will want to fly for half their current deal. Your move airline CEOs.
Absolutely!!
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 02:08
  #705 (permalink)  
 
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You will find the majority of the donations that are anonymous are mainline pilots.

There are very strong feelings towards what the company has done over the last 20 years. Which will take more than cookies and coffee to heal. However most of the QF pilots are very happy to watch you stick it to QF IR and canít wait for aipa to grow somę, to join in.

In fact, many like what they see from the AFAP and are joining in droves.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 02:44
  #706 (permalink)  
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It's about principle now.

Q can not be seen to agree to anything as a result of PIA. There is the entire 737 workforce just waiting for their go.

One association has overseen the outsourcing of work (except that of the widebody fleets) and from the lads over at James Blundells place , the flow to the other is no longer a drip but a steady leak.



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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 03:23
  #707 (permalink)  
 
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One association has overseen the outsourcing of work (except that of the widebody fleets)Ö...
Jetstar and Jetconnect operating a number of formerly mainline widebody routes is not "outsourcing"?

A large number of mainline Pilots would possibly tend to think it is.
And with all due respect, how was AIPA going to prevent that with the last 2 or 3 Enterprise Ultimatums that the majority chose to vote in favour of?

Last edited by C441; 2nd Mar 2024 at 03:33.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 04:32
  #708 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShandywithSugar
It's about principle now.

Q can not be seen to agree to anything as a result of PIA. There is the entire 737 workforce just waiting for their go.

.
It will be fascinating to see what happens if they donít get IB approved- we might then enter a self destruct cycle. I canít help but think that that might be the best outcome in the long run because the mining companies may well have to fill the vacuum very quickly. If I were them Iíd be gaming how that scenario plays out and how quickly they can get an operation up and running. Word on the street is one of them is already doing that.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 04:53
  #709 (permalink)  
 
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because the mining companies may well have to fill the vacuum very quickly. If I were them I’d be gaming how that scenario plays out and how quickly they can get an operation up and running. Word on the street is one of them is already doing that.
​​​​​​​You can bet your left one that they are planning an alternative supplier right now. Most of these FIFO contracts are on 90 day release. Not locked in forever.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 04:54
  #710 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by walesregent
It will be fascinating to see what happens if they donít get IB approved- we might then enter a self destruct cycle. I canít help but think that that might be the best outcome in the long run because the mining companies may well have to fill the vacuum very quickly. If I were them Iíd be gaming how that scenario plays out and how quickly they can get an operation up and running. Word on the street is one of them is already doing that.
Iíve spoken to a a group of pilots this week who are doing the due diligence on proposal to offer the services of as many pilots as mining a company needs. You supply the aircraft and weíll supply the pilots, our price is something like QF SH agreement.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 05:17
  #711 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
You can bet your left one that they are planning an alternative supplier right now. Most of these FIFO contracts are on 90 day release. Not locked in forever.
Not locked in for even a minute when there is industrial disharmony causing major disruptions. They also have clauses about OTP requirements, reserve coverage, rescue services, etc that could be used to end contracts with minimal notice.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 05:22
  #712 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Iíve spoken to a a group of pilots this week who are doing the due diligence on proposal to offer the services of as many pilots as mining a company needs. You supply the aircraft and weíll supply the pilots, our price is something like QF SH agreement.
Most interesting. Despite being bin chickens there is an unusually high level of experience in the organisation that could easily make this happen, including check and training and other delegations. Itís one thing pissing all over your staff and the travelling public but start doing that to mining companies and shiz gets real very fast.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 05:51
  #713 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by walesregent
It will be fascinating to see what happens if they donít get IB approved- we might then enter a self destruct cycle.
Indeed.

NAA/Qantas may feel that its best option is to take response action. Who knows how that plays out.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 06:21
  #714 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Iíve spoken to a a group of pilots this week who are doing the due diligence on proposal to offer the services of as many pilots as mining a company needs. You supply the aircraft and weíll supply the pilots, our price is something like QF SH agreement.
That will be fascinating to watch. Pilots running their own airline. It will be an airline where pilots donít go sick when they are not sick? An airline where pilots always extend their tour of duty to keep the show on the road? An airline where captains donít delay aircraft to prove that the captain is in charge? An airline that can resolve one pilotís ambitions over another's amicably? An airline where no pilot whinges about when they get their holidays? An airline where all pilots get the school holidays and weekends off? An airline where all pilots who want, get Christmas off?
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 06:27
  #715 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JamieMaree
That will be fascinating to watch. Pilots running their own airline. It will be an airline where pilots donít go sick when they are not sick? An airline where pilots always extend their tour of duty to keep the show on the road? An airline where captains donít delay aircraft to prove that the captain is in charge? An airline that can resolve one pilotís ambitions over another's amicably? An airline where no pilot whinges about when they get their holidays? An airline where all pilots get the school holidays and weekends off? An airline where all pilots who want, get Christmas off?
Na, just treated like a human being would be a great start really.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 06:32
  #716 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
I’ve spoken to a a group of pilots this week who are doing the due diligence on proposal to offer the services of as many pilots as mining a company needs. You supply the aircraft and we’ll supply the pilots, our price is something like QF SH agreement.
Big miners don't exactly like unions known for striking. If mining companies wanted this over tomorrow it would be over tomorrow, tbh they are the real kingmakers here.
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 06:42
  #717 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Big miners don't exactly like unions known for striking. If mining companies wanted this over tomorrow it would be over tomorrow, tbh they are the real kingmakers here.
Arent most of their EBA's are negotiated with one of the most militant unions in Australia, the CFMMEU??
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 06:47
  #718 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Makiko
Lets hope the NAA guys/gals tough it out great job so far

Really showing the way , no need to "sign off" on substandard deals - why oh why NJS did do , well I just don't know

The Pilot Unions/FAA are an interesting bunch seem to proceed to contested hearings on "looser" cases normally related to behavioural issues to try to save a job

But often seem to ignore or go into denial about some of the strongest

Example that comes to mind would be AIPA going to trial for bypass pay for A380 SOs when QF elected to hire small number of DE 380 SOs . The contract does say (not exact) normally
from internal unless operational requirements dictate otherwise (rookie effort to allow that clause) . Well you might think Global pandemic, stressed training capacity would give QF a reasonable argument.
Up to the Jugde but I would give the union 25% max of winning that one. Lot of money to spend so that 20 or so A scale SOs would receive bypass pay

As compared to QF issuing the decree that the B Scale for new SOs would commence forthwith - tootle pip. We QF management indeed make this proclamation. This is all very interesting but perhaps the employees
should remind QF that they don't run the Courts or the Australian legal system. The 350 is years & years away & the B scale was tied to those "tagged/destined/allocated" for the A350 , but are now flying A330/380/787. You might think that given said aircraft was years away when the B scale was commenced that this is unfair , unreasonable , unjust etc etc. Think they are talking 2027 now at best, its was a blatant try on by QF . How an earth could allocate an AC to a new joiner , that is more than six months away from first type arriving

What is bizarre is that the Pilot group have accepted this so passively "It's what the contract says"; "New joiners have to plan for the B scale contract - they know what they are getting into"

It effects likely more than 200 pilots who have joined from September 22 or so . The silence or more "howling down" from the Union or pre-Covid QF Pilots is deafening whenever this is mentioned.

Is this because folks are embarrassed that 95% voted up the B scale back in 2020. & That for the Union it was such a poorly drafted clause, without specified timelines - truly rookie stuff

The Result by the end of this year 400 + B Scale QF Pilots who's pay rate will max at 60% of Pre-Covid group

What is remarkable is that the Union ignores what may well be unlawful conduct by QF. Yet will spend millions going to Court on what they are claiming is a "Sanctity of Seniority" case for 20 or so guys who didn't get
A380 slots - it was all sort of holier than thou

The B Scalers should organise & take action themselves if their chosen Union doesn't act or all move to a Union that will act. The potential loss of earnings for a B scaler could easily be 7 figures

Anyway good luck to the NAA pilots - vote it down several times until you get an excellent deal. No doubt you are printing money for the QF group & the marvellous senior executive group

& Don't panic at the scaly QF management tactics - QF ML fell for the BS "hurry up hurry up" or we will give the flying to others - schoolboy tactic actually worked
Sorry for the off topic however the back slapping about slagging this particular EA is usually forgetting it was destined to be voted down hard but for COVID rearing it's head. COVID was the most significant factor of that EA vote.

(No I was not an eligible voter)

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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 07:04
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Originally Posted by maggot
Sorry for the off topic however the back slapping about slagging this particular EA is usually forgetting it was destined to be voted down hard but for COVID rearing it's head. COVID was the most significant factor of that EA vote.

(No I was not an eligible voter)
If that was the case why didnít AIPA attempt to delay or stop the vote?
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Old 2nd Mar 2024, 07:05
  #720 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bigredsky
Na, just treated like a human being would be a great start really.
Iíll make this observation, if you want to see a good example of pilots respect for each other, attend any committee of management meeting of a pilots ď unionĒ ( to see lack of respect in operation). Neither is a ď unionĒ. One is a federation and the other is an association. Mind you, a union in drag might be a good description.
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