Network EBA
This is an important factor. Ask any NJS pilot what it’s like to go from a relatively relaxed lifestyle job to a soon-to-be short/medium haul international operation on crappy, and declining conditions. Network is next on their list of operations to morph into something it was never suppose to be.
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Fair Work IB won't be deciding the entire EA, just the parts that aren't agreed on yet so it's hard to see massive changes to what has been on the table previously. I wonder if QF pulling some previously agreed upon items just before applying for IB will count as bad faith conduct in Fair Work's eyes?
A left field idea I've heard is what if the Network pilots say to QF that the proposed deal is mostly fine, but for charter only purposes? RPT can be left to some other part of QF? Normally it would be hard to see QF sending aircraft without J class or wifi across the country on RPT with the prices they charge, but we are where we are and it seems foolish to doubt the reports of cross country flying conducted by Network in the future.
A left field idea I've heard is what if the Network pilots say to QF that the proposed deal is mostly fine, but for charter only purposes? RPT can be left to some other part of QF? Normally it would be hard to see QF sending aircraft without J class or wifi across the country on RPT with the prices they charge, but we are where we are and it seems foolish to doubt the reports of cross country flying conducted by Network in the future.
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Didn’t QF walk away taking several items with them in a typical IR dummy spit? I don’t believe there is an agreed document in play.
Towards the bottom of the page it talks about IB deciding terms that couldn’t be agreed on by the bargaining reps, it doesn’t appear to say that the entire agreement is rewritten by Fair Work.
This is directly from the FWC website above.
'An intractable bargaining workplace determination must include agreed terms and core or mandatory terms'
This tells me that the last EBA voted down was the 'agreed' terms. QF IR removing those agreed terms will never fly at the FWC.
'An intractable bargaining workplace determination must include agreed terms and core or mandatory terms'
This tells me that the last EBA voted down was the 'agreed' terms. QF IR removing those agreed terms will never fly at the FWC.
Thread Starter
A left field idea I've heard is what if the Network pilots say to QF that the proposed deal is mostly fine, but for charter only purposes? RPT can be left to some other part of QF? Normally it would be hard to see QF sending aircraft without J class or wifi across the country on RPT with the prices they charge, but we are where we are and it seems foolish to doubt the reports of cross country flying conducted by Network in the future.
Another week of surprises now doubt.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/secu...e-2023/changes
Towards the bottom of the page it talks about IB deciding terms that couldn’t be agreed on by the bargaining reps, it doesn’t appear to say that the entire agreement is rewritten by Fair Work.
Towards the bottom of the page it talks about IB deciding terms that couldn’t be agreed on by the bargaining reps, it doesn’t appear to say that the entire agreement is rewritten by Fair Work.
The line pushed by management when they met with the unions on Friday read pretty much like this. This is the best deal we can offer. We can’t afford to pay you the market rate. We need flexibility and we can’t give you the lifestyle you desire. Basically times are tough, the margins are too slim, blame the mining companies etc etc.
We shouldn’t be buying this BS, it’s from page whatever of the QF IR playbook. It’s all been done before and while it has worked numerous times, it fails any form of pub test in this climate and won’t work again…unless we let it.
My prediction is that QF will return to the table at the eleventh hour just prior to the IB hearing. They will slap some marginally better deal on the table with a few hidden Easter eggs to worsen the deal behind our backs at a later date. Unfortunately some will fall for it, but most won’t. Also unfortunately, the offer may be enough to have PIA suspended or terminated, which will be their intent.
The pilot market has spoken. We are in very short supply. Train drivers and many other workers are overtaking us. Don’t buy the BS!
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This is directly from the FWC website above.
'An intractable bargaining workplace determination must include agreed terms and core or mandatory terms'
This tells me that the last EBA voted down was the 'agreed' terms. QF IR removing those agreed terms will never fly at the FWC.
'An intractable bargaining workplace determination must include agreed terms and core or mandatory terms'
This tells me that the last EBA voted down was the 'agreed' terms. QF IR removing those agreed terms will never fly at the FWC.
The Company can put up any EA it likes for a vote. Agreement is optional and in name only. And everyone has the right to vote it down. Will be interesting to learn how Q presents its case for IB.
This is a point that is being debated by the various parties yet you seem convinced that it’s settled. Do you know what the IB process is at that level of intricacy? Will it not involve submissions from the bargaining parties to determine what is indeed agreed? Qantas might say that they agree to nothing beyond what’s in the existing agreement but they had better come ready to convince the commission that they agree to nothing that they previously put to the workforce to vote on. Anyway, it is stupid to speculate on what process the commission will follow because I don’t believe anyone here is a commissioner and it’s not like we can look to many precedents for guidance.
Last edited by walesregent; 18th Feb 2024 at 11:30.
Well the AFAP and the reps agreed to support it, so that would indicate that the parties agreed to the terms, even though it wasn’t voted up. It would be a different story if the union hadn’t supported the vote. What I’m saying is it will be hard for QF IR to argue that the terms they took off the table just prior to the IB application were not agreed upon.
This is a point that is being debated by the various parties yet you seem convinced that it’s settled. Do you know what the IB process is at that level of intricacy? Will it not involve submissions from the bargaining parties to determine what is indeed agreed? Qantas might say that they agree to nothing beyond what’s in the existing agreement but they had better come ready to convince the commission that they agree to nothing that they previously put to the workforce to vote on. Anyway, it is stupid to speculate on what process the commission will follow because I don’t believe anyone here is a commissioner and it’s not like we can look to many precedents for guidance.
I would agree, except I don’t believe QF were still bargaining.
…unless we let it.
My prediction is that QF will return to the table at the eleventh hour just prior to the IB hearing. They will slap some marginally better deal on the table with a few hidden Easter eggs to worsen the deal behind our backs at a later date....
…unless we let it.
My prediction is that QF will return to the table at the eleventh hour just prior to the IB hearing. They will slap some marginally better deal on the table with a few hidden Easter eggs to worsen the deal behind our backs at a later date....
Don't sell out your integrity or your colleagues for the thirty pieces of silver.
If the grass looks greener on the other side, time to start tending your own grass.
Those milennials are stepping on their own appendage if they take a crap deal now. They will potentially reap the benefits for the rest of their careers if they help set the tone now for EBA negotiations into the future.
Last edited by ol-mate; 19th Feb 2024 at 01:42.
Regarding money, was a Gofundme ever set up?
Whereas the Boomers at mainline sold out the milennials of future recruitment by voting up substandard B scales in order to feather their own nests......
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