Network EBA
What was AIPA’s stance on the last Network offer though? Abstaining from comment or action is a tacit position at best.
I'm wondering if everybody gets the gravity of the action the Network pilots are taking? They are doing what no pilot in this country has had the spine to do for 35 years. All of you have talked a big game but none of you have followed through. It's not lost on me, much admiration 
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Some very impressive donations being made in the strike fund. Well done to everyone for supporting our Network colleagues.
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Thanks for the link. I’ve donated. Felt good to contribute something to help extend the strike and help the boys/girls.
Please support and spread that link far and wide.
Network pilots have my thanks and admiration. QF pilots should have had some balls 15 years ago when this divisive corporate garbage began (I’m one and I’ve ALWAYS voted NO).
Stop them now. We’re all behind you. QF, QF link, virgin, REX, GA, the travelling public…we’re all behind you guys.
THANK YOU
Please support and spread that link far and wide.
Network pilots have my thanks and admiration. QF pilots should have had some balls 15 years ago when this divisive corporate garbage began (I’m one and I’ve ALWAYS voted NO).
Stop them now. We’re all behind you. QF, QF link, virgin, REX, GA, the travelling public…we’re all behind you guys.
THANK YOU
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One point of clarification is that AIPA did NOT support or endorse the third deal to be voted on by NAA pilots. With things moving very quickly in the lead up to Christmas, the AIPA CoM was unable to consider the revised deal. Thus, AIPA indicated that we do not wish to delay a vote and that the NAA pilots should vote on the proposed EA.
Is that a serious response from an advisory body? EA negotiations reaching breaking point and they couldn't advise on it because Santa was coming?
Can't imagine why anyone would want their representation.
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"We didnt have time to read it so we just told you to vote on it anyway without any input from us".
Is that a serious response from an advisory body? EA negotiations reaching breaking point and they couldn't advise on it because Santa was coming?
Can't imagine why anyone would want their representation.
Is that a serious response from an advisory body? EA negotiations reaching breaking point and they couldn't advise on it because Santa was coming?
Can't imagine why anyone would want their representation.
I’ll be leaving after this EBA unless they pull of something huge. I’m happy with PIA. I’m sick of going backwards every year, B scales, more productivity, less money, less progression, smaller airline, etc etc etc.
I’m done. I welcome and look forward to removing my services from QF (PIA).
The whole industry should follow Network’s lead…it’s time to tell these corrupt corporate pigs some manners and reality.
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Before we start heralding AFAP tactics as win, how about we wait and see what the outcome is. What if the end result is worse than one of the deals that were voted down?
im all for taking the company to task over the horrendous treatment of ALL pilot groups. But let’s judge the AFAP on the outcome for the pilots, rather than the road taken to get there.
im all for taking the company to task over the horrendous treatment of ALL pilot groups. But let’s judge the AFAP on the outcome for the pilots, rather than the road taken to get there.
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Given there’s already been two proposed EAs agreed to by the union and the company it would be probable the FWC wouldn’t substantially deviate from what was in those if this ends up being a FWC determination.
I’m happy with PIA. I’m sick of going backwards every year, B scales, more productivity, less money, less progression, smaller airline, etc etc etc.
I’m done. I welcome and look forward to removing my services from QF (PIA).
The whole industry should follow Network’s lead…it’s time to tell these corrupt corporate pigs some manners and reality.
I’m done. I welcome and look forward to removing my services from QF (PIA).
The whole industry should follow Network’s lead…it’s time to tell these corrupt corporate pigs some manners and reality.
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Qantas all set to announce up another massive half year profit tomorrow, around a Billion dollars for 6 months work!. Meanwhile Pilots flying their planes at Network Aviation are paid almost 20% below the minimum legal award wage. Australia's "sweat shop" airline. Any wonder the place is a miserable toxic mess. Qantas Link CEO & Qantas CEO too busy giving themselves a pat on the back for a job well done, to even notice their WA airline is circling the drain. Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg. There will be more High fives in the board room soon when they get this terrible EBA through too, all smiling like fools coz "we did it yay", oblivious to the fact that they created a revolving door airline with massive training and recruitment costs & safety problems because 90% of pilots working their or joining have no intension to stick around.
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I expect this is a test case. I expect QF know that the SH EBA is going to be a bloodbath, so they’re preemptively testing the waters with the new intractable bargaining process to see where the chips will fall.
Public and government sentiment against them is at an all time high. They’re about to announce another staggering half year profit. If I were in their position, I wouldn’t be banking on a good outcome. Other posts here indicate NAA pilots have been paid well below award for many years - I doubt there’s going to be much sympathy for that behaviour from the Fair Work Commission.
QF SH is the benchmark and that’s what all subsidiaries should be paid. Same pay, same job.
And ironically, in the event that FWC does provide a rubbish deal, that’s sealing the fate of NAA. When the ratio of new CPLs being issued vs the number retiring/going overseas is 1:2, any bottom feeding operations will cease to exist very quickly.
Divide and conquer is done.
Public and government sentiment against them is at an all time high. They’re about to announce another staggering half year profit. If I were in their position, I wouldn’t be banking on a good outcome. Other posts here indicate NAA pilots have been paid well below award for many years - I doubt there’s going to be much sympathy for that behaviour from the Fair Work Commission.
QF SH is the benchmark and that’s what all subsidiaries should be paid. Same pay, same job.
And ironically, in the event that FWC does provide a rubbish deal, that’s sealing the fate of NAA. When the ratio of new CPLs being issued vs the number retiring/going overseas is 1:2, any bottom feeding operations will cease to exist very quickly.
Divide and conquer is done.
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The last time a pilot EA after PIA came before the FWC that union didn’t get their key demand.
Given there’s already been two proposed EAs agreed to by the union and the company it would be probable the FWC wouldn’t substantially deviate from what was in those if this ends up being a FWC determination.
Given there’s already been two proposed EAs agreed to by the union and the company it would be probable the FWC wouldn’t substantially deviate from what was in those if this ends up being a FWC determination.
What is a fact is that many are allowing their anger to make emotional decisions and are happy to roll the dice, thinking that they are "sticking it to the man". FWC don't give a toss about what you think is "fair"; they care for what applies under the relevant legislation, nothing more. Some need to get their head around this fact.
If it goes to IB and the result is less than what was on the table, plus the "opportunity cost" along the way, sit back and watch the finger-pointing blame game commence. If the result is better than what was on the table, that would be sensational. The question is, "When to hold them and when to fold them?".
You can call it what you will but I’ll call it what it actually is – TACIT agreement.
A few peanuts on here need to educate themselves on what an actual B scale is.
Firstly what it isn’t. It isn’t a pay rate for inexperienced new hire pilots, because those pilots can progress through the pay scales as they gain experience / time in the company. So EVERYONE can end up on the same pay rates for the same role.
What it actually is is neatly defined by clause 32.7 of the Qantas Longhaul agreement. It’s a pay rate that is significantly below what existing pilots doing the same role with the same experience with the same time on type get paid, all because an arbitrary date has passed.
Any pilot joining Qantas now as a SO (A380/A350/A330) will top out at 6 years $122.95 / hour, where existing pilots will earn far superior rates for 6 years $171.22 (A380) or $155.28 (A350/A330). Those existing pilots can progress onto year 12 scales $194.13 (A380) or $176.06 (A350/A330) while new hire pilots can’t -their limited to year 6.
B scale pilots in Qantas will be limited to $122.95, while A scale pilots can earn as much as $194.13 or $176.06 for the same role.
That is a B scale, and that was brought in while AIPA meekly sat by and didn’t offer a whimper of objection. So AIPA CoM members on here sniping from the sidelines should reflect on their own performance.
Contrast that with what is happening at Network. The AFAP have negotiated hard, reaching agreement with the company on the last agreement which the pilots rejected, so they have respected their members wishes and are now using PIA in an attempt to improve the offer. The jury is still out on the success or otherwise of this approach, but in the absence of alternative propositions then this is the path they are on. AIPA have had months to get onboard and support the PIA by filing the same actions that have been running for months, yet still they sit idly by.
It shouldn’t be surprising, since AIPA split from the AFAP in the early 80’s they have in their 40 plus year history only taken PIA once.
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Yeah, your tactics clearly aren't working YeahNup. When the majority are going the other way, maybe you need to look at whether you're the one making the incorrect decisions.
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Good luck to the NAA guys. Well done and we are all supporting you. Looks like PIA has been cancelled for this week.
Thread drift:
Keith, Can the pilot you describe end up being paid the same amount as the highest paid pilot? The answer is yes. Could the Cathay bloke on the B scale end up at the same pay as a broke on A scale? The answer is no. I’ll leave it at that.
If you want to be a second officer for the rest of your life, then I guess you can argue it’s a B scale. If you want to be a pilot, you end up at the same as everyone else, so it argue it’s not. QF don’t hire you to be a SO for life, and I believe that’s the point. Plus, only an idiot doesn’t recognise the circumstances behind why it was introduced.
Thread drift:
Keith, Can the pilot you describe end up being paid the same amount as the highest paid pilot? The answer is yes. Could the Cathay bloke on the B scale end up at the same pay as a broke on A scale? The answer is no. I’ll leave it at that.
If you want to be a second officer for the rest of your life, then I guess you can argue it’s a B scale. If you want to be a pilot, you end up at the same as everyone else, so it argue it’s not. QF don’t hire you to be a SO for life, and I believe that’s the point. Plus, only an idiot doesn’t recognise the circumstances behind why it was introduced.
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