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Jetstar and Ballina again

Old 17th Feb 2023, 05:07
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
Separate the problems:

A: Unannounced arrival or departure.

B: Failure to successfully negotiate separation between communicating aircraft.


Problem A:

In my limited experience with sharing untowered CTAF airspace with RPT, the procedure seemed to be that the PNF monitors the CTAF and then established two way comms with me.

.Isn't it possible to mandate a listening watch and enough broadcast calls to preclude an unannounced arrival or departure?

Problem B


I have yet to meet an RPT where we couldn't work out guaranteed separation in about a ten second conversation.

Sunfish,

a practical suggestion and hopefully realistic assessment of the RPT jet jockeys.

However, looking through relevant “separation” incidents in G, there are consistently problems with communications.

Our system should be somewhat human error tolerant, ie that is why IFR traffic info in G is mutual and ATCs transmit info to both aircraft on the basis that a conversation will be initiated by one of the aircraft.

Was there a specifically relevant part of the latest Ballina incident that you identified with Unannounced arrivals or departures?
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Old 4th Aug 2023, 12:50
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From AIP SUP H02/23
An SFIS will be provided to all aircraft within the YBNA MBA between 2200 and 0800 UTC (1 HR earlier during AEDT), or as notified by NOTAM.
B1132/23 REVIEW B1125/23 BALLINA SURVEILLANCE FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE (SFIS) NOT AVBL
DUE OPR RESTRICTIONS. BALLINA BROADCAST AREA REMAINS CLASS G AS PER
AIP - OUTSIDE SURVEILLANCE FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE (SFIS) HR
COMMON TRAFFIC ADVISORY FREQ 124.2
SFC TO 8500FT AMSL
FROM 08 030000 TO 08 060620
DAILY 0000/0100 0300/0400 0600/0620
Closures throughout the day seems to be pretty standard.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 05:00
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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Seeing as this is a rumour network...wondering if anyone has any updates on the recommendations from CASA in their review published nearly a year ago, at the end of 2022.

https://www.casa.gov.au/airspace-review-ballina

Recommendation 3 CASA should direct AA to install an Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast (ADS-B) ground station in the vicinity of Ballina to improve surveillance as soon as practicable but no later than April 2023. The ground station should, as far as is practical, provide ADS-B surveillance capability to the runway surface
Was this done? ADSB maps on Airservices site are from 2020 and do not show a ground station in the vicinity of YBNA.

​​​​​​​Recommendation 7 As an interim action pending the completion of Recommendation 8, CASA should make a determination to establish a control area around Ballina Byron Gateway Airport with a base which is as low as possible, and direct AA to provide services within the control area. The services should be provided during all periods of scheduled Air Transport Operations and include an Approach Control Service to aircraft operating under the Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), separation between IFR aircraft, VFR traffic information to all aircraft, and sequencing of all aircraft to and from the runway. CASA and AA should jointly explore opportunities to detect non-cooperative aircraft or vehicles in the immediate vicinity of the runway. The services should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 30 November 2023.
Is this on track to be completed by end of next month? Is this Class E or some variation thereof?

I note the VTC that comes into effect from 30/11/23 shows Class C LL 8500 and the MBA ie. no change to how it currently is.

​​​​​​​Recommendation 8 CASA should make a determination that Ballina Byron Gateway Airport will become a controlled aerodrome with an associated control zone and control area, and direct Airservices Australia (AA) to provide an Aerodrome Control Service1 to the aerodrome. That service should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 13 June 2024.
Is there any rumours on whether this will be a physical tower or a remote tower?
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 12:57
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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From another thread.

Originally Posted by Geoff Fairless
When OAR decided, in 2015, that a CA/GRO was sufficient (PS. There were no licensed ATCs in OAR) I was dispatched to make an assessment.
My recommendation was that, due to the regulations, a CA/GRO would only add to the amount of radio traffic, and not solve any problems. (The regulation requires pilots to make broadcasts and communicate with each other, regardless of anything the CA/GRO operator does)
Ballina Airport had plans to increase the numbers of aircraft, so I recommended that a control tower would be eventually required, so we should start Airservices down that road straightaway.
This was ignored, and in 2016 the CA/GRO opened. The service was hamstrung from the start because Airservices offered the fire station as a base, so unbeknown to the ATCs in CASA, OAR told the airport they did not need to go ahead with the small control tower they were going to build on top of the terminal. That could later have become an ATC Tower, but farsightedness was not an attribute in great supply.
It turned out that the Firies did not like this operator being in their observation post, so he/she was required to sit well behind the duty fireman. This was because the primary purpose of the observation post was for the duty fireman to watch every RPT landing and take off, and alert his colleagues if they were needed.

To answer the question above, even though it has dates in it, OAR has only recommended the following:

Recommendation 7
As an interim action pending the completion of Recommendation 8, CASA should make a determination to establish a control area around Ballina Byron Gateway Airport with a base which is as low as possible, and direct AA to provide services within the control area. The services should be provided during all periods of scheduled Air Transport Operations and include an Approach Control Service to aircraft operating under the Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), separation between IFR aircraft, VFR traffic information to all aircraft, and sequencing of all aircraft to and from the runway. CASA and AA should jointly explore opportunities to detect non-cooperative aircraft or vehicles in the immediate vicinity of the runway. The services should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 30 November 2023.
Recommendation 8
CASA should make a determination that Ballina Byron Gateway Airport will become a controlled aerodrome with an associated control zone and control area, and direct Airservices Australia (AA) to provide an Aerodrome Control Service1 to the aerodrome. That service should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 13 June 2024.
Recommendation 9
CASA should prepare and finalise an Airspace Change Proposal (ACP) for a control zone and control area steps in preparation for the implementation of Recommendations 7 and 8.

OAR only makes recommendations because, instead of being an airspace regulator as their regulations require, they were made a minor office within CASA. Hence, all their recommendations have to be approved and actioned by CASA managers higher up the tree.
This allows the Department, Airservices and CASA to hold almost limitless internal discussions, and as far as the rest of us know, change all the OAR recommendations and dates.
We will only find out what they eventually decide when NOTAMS and AICs appear.
​​​​​​​
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 13:11
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Ballina Tower doesn't get a mention in the latest ASA Corporate Plan.
Airservices Australia 2023-24 Corporate Plan Effective 1 July 2023 for the period of 5 financial years ending 30 June 2028.
ASA Corporate Plan
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 02:15
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OAR only makes recommendations because, instead of being an airspace regulator as their regulations require, they were made a minor office within CASA. Hence, all their recommendations have to be approved and actioned by CASA managers higher up the tree.

This allows the Department, Airservices and CASA to hold almost limitless internal discussions, and as far as the rest of us know, change all the OAR recommendations and dates.
Just to be clear: CASA is the 'airspace regulator', not OAR. The regulations and the Airspace Act say so. There is no mention of OAR in either.

In effect, the recommendations from the review are just CASA making recommendations to itself. I've pointed out how nonsensical that is before. In another example - I think it had to do with Avalon airspace - one of the recommendations of CASA was that Airservices propose something to CASA.

The current arrangement facilitates the use by Ms Spence of her prevarication weapon choice: Endless consultation processes.


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Old 13th Oct 2023, 03:14
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Just to be clear: CASA is the 'airspace regulator', not OAR. The regulations and the Airspace Act say so. There is no mention of OAR in either.

In effect, the recommendations from the review are just CASA making recommendations to itself. I've pointed out how nonsensical that is before. In another example - I think it had to do with Avalon airspace - one of the recommendations of CASA was that Airservices propose something to CASA.

The current arrangement facilitates the use by Ms Spence of her prevarication weapon choice: Endless consultation processes.
Which is why the original recommendation from the AERU (remember that mob?) was that OAR be placed functionally separate from CASA but... lobbying by both CASA and AsA meant it ended up as a section of CASA, not even reporting directly to the DAS.

And then the recruiting for the Head of OAR was kidnapped and put with an external agency which understood, from comment external to the process, that a local candidate would not be suitable. I'm told, reliably, that two local candidates who the then Dep Sec considered would be suitable were not even progressed to short list or interview. Both received call from the DepSec asking why they had not applied - "But we did..." they replied. And the full list of applicants was not in the selection report.

Gne
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 04:10
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Surely self-interest and internal and intra-agency politics would not influence such important structural and personnel decisions. Surely not. That could result in airspace management and air navigation service provision being a debacle and a potential risk to aviation safety.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 04:34
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I - and hopefully others - have written to CASA asking whether the recommendations that OAR (CASA) made to CASA will be implemented by CASA or Airservices any time soon.

I'll post their response here.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 06:57
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
That could result in airspace management and air navigation service provision being a debacle and a potential risk to aviation safety.
if you have a look at the new JSF (replacement R559 mil areas in NSW) & new WLM TMP stuff coming in on 30th Nov that is exactly the case also.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 07:34
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That's just the result of normalised deviation: The declaration of Romeos other than in accordance with the criterion for the exercise of the declaration power. That's been going on for decades.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 03:48
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I received a phone call today from an employee within the OAR. He gave me some official information and then shared his personal opinion on some of the questions I'd asked, which was great.

He is sending me a formal response and I will post once received.

The ADSB ground station was installed in the vicinity in March/April of this year.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 04:48
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ADS-B IN is now being spruiked to draw attention away from inadequate airspace arrangements (CASA) and inadequate air navigation service provision (Airservices).
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Old 1st Nov 2023, 22:28
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Reply is below as received. I would like to commend the CASA OAR officer for being approachable, including taking the time to speak to me on the phone. I have removed his details but should anyone wish to contact him directly, I can pass them on via PM.

My original enquiry was sent to the wrong branch of CASA (as their contact form is broken) but once this gentleman received it he was helpful in letting me know what they're doing.My original enquiry:

I am enquiring about CASA's progress with regard to specific recommendations that OAR (part of CASA) made to CASA (?) in the Ballina Airspace Review, published in November 2022.

Specifically, I'd like to understand whether:

Recommendation 3 has been completed by Airservices Australia as per CASA's direction
Recommendation 7 is planned for implementation by 30 November 2023
Recommendation 8 is in progress, and if so if that is to be a physical tower on the airfield or a remote tower


I have copied the recommendations I'm referring to below:

--

Recommendation 3 CASA should direct AA to install an Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast (ADS-B) ground station in the vicinity of Ballina to improve surveillance as soon as practicable but no later than April 2023. The ground station should, as far as is practical, provide ADS-B surveillance capability to the runway surface

Recommendation 7 As an interim action pending the completion of Recommendation 8, CASA should make a determination to establish a control area around Ballina Byron Gateway Airport with a base which is as low as possible, and direct AA to provide services within the control area. The services should be provided during all periods of scheduled Air Transport Operations and include an Approach Control Service to aircraft operating under the Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), separation between IFR aircraft, VFR traffic information to all aircraft, and sequencing of all aircraft to and from the runway. CASA and AA should jointly explore opportunities to detect non-cooperative aircraft or vehicles in the immediate vicinity of the runway. The services should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 30 November 2023.

​​​​​​​Recommendation 8 CASA should make a determination that Ballina Byron Gateway Airport will become a controlled aerodrome with an associated control zone and control area, and direct Airservices Australia (AA) to provide an Aerodrome Control Service1 to the aerodrome. That service should be established as soon as practicable but no later than 13 June 2024.
CASA OAR response:

Thanks very much for your query and will do my best to provide you a sufficient response.

I can advise a direction from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to Airservices Australia (Airservices) in relation to the establishment of controlled airspace and a controlled aerodrome service at Ballina has been issued. However, the initial timeframe to introduced these components has been amended to account for the required time to undertake all the necessary tasks required before submitting the airspace change proposal (ACP). There is more information relating to this below.

Regarding the installation of an Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast (ADS-B) ground station in the vicinity of Ballina to improve surveillance by April 2023. This task was completed earlier this year. In March 2023 CASA officers inspected this site and unit for certification.

In relation to the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome service, the anticipated timeframe has been amended so controlled airspace will be introduced in November 2024 and the controlled aerodrome service, June 2025.

It is important to note that changes such as these are introduced coincidentally with the aeronautical chart publication cycle i.e. either mid or end of year. Amended or new charts must be submitted and finalised approximately six months prior to publication. For changes expected to be promulgated in November 2024, the proposal to be completed and returned to the airspace designers by 28 May 2024. It should also be noted the OAR will take approximately 8-12 weeks to review these types of proposals. This demonstrates that time is a critical factor to undertake the required steps within an ACP.

The OAR is working with Airservices on these steps. Consultation is required and while I can not provide you more specific information about that component, I can advise the OAR will be in the Ballina/Lismore area around 5-9 February 2024 when CASA Aviation Safety seminars are scheduled to take place. There is likely to be other occasions/opportunities to participate in the engagement process however the aviation safety seminars is one opportunity staff will attend the area.

Should you have additional questions about Ballina airspace, do not hesitate contact me via email or the contact numbers below.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 00:20
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Please explain?

Only 6 months of Class E down-to-700ft chaos.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 07:52
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What ? So a service that can't be resourced now (notams everyday for outages) can be upgraded to APP by Nov 24 with all the paperwork done and completed by May 24 with everyone about to go on Xmas hols shortly ?

have these ppl gone nutso or what ? You'd be struggling to get a medical/asic renewal by May 24 !


Last edited by 10JQKA; 2nd Nov 2023 at 08:45.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 08:53
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I’m sure your contact in CASA OAR is a very hard-working and earnest person, MagnumPI, but the response you quoted is laughable. (I’m sure the substance of the response is not the decision of said hard-working and earnest person, but rather a mere explanation of matters 'imposed from above'.)
I can advise a direction from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to Airservices Australia (Airservices) in relation to the establishment of controlled airspace and a controlled aerodrome service at Ballina has been issued. However, the initial timeframe to introduced these components has been amended to account for the required time to undertake all the necessary tasks required before submitting the airspace change proposal (ACP). There is more information relating to this below.
There is no ‘requirement’ to undertake an ACP. An ACP is an invention of the bureaucracy, intended to frustrate meaningful change.
Regarding the installation of an Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast (ADS-B) ground station in the vicinity of Ballina to improve surveillance by April 2023. This task was completed earlier this year. In March 2023 CASA officers inspected this site and unit for certification.
ADS-B IN is now the airspace Kool Aide.
It’s going to save everyone.
In relation to the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome service, the anticipated timeframe has been amended so controlled airspace will be introduced in November 2024 and the controlled aerodrome service, June 2025.
Of course it will.
It is important to note that changes such as these are introduced coincidentally with the aeronautical chart publication cycle i.e. either mid or end of year.
I really think the correspondent meant “concurrently with”, rather than “coincidentally with”.
The link is not coincidental, but either way the link is fallacious.
Amended or new charts must be submitted and finalised approximately six months prior to publication. For changes expected to be promulgated in November 2024, the proposal to be completed and returned to the airspace designers by 28 May 2024. It should also be noted the OAR will take approximately 8-12 weeks to review these types of proposals. This demonstrates that time is a critical factor to undertake the required steps within an ACP.
Hopefully the relatives of the people killed in the mid-air will be comforted by the fact that a paperwork cycle and a bureaucratic invention called an ACP were what delayed the obvious.
Those relatives will probably be gobsmacked that no mechanism exists for implementing safety-related airspace arrangements at short notice.

If only there were some way to give notice of different airspace arrangements at short notice, independently of the chart publication cycle. If only.

Keystone Cops doing airspace.

Sadly, there's also a Keystone Cops 'independent' transport safety investigation body.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 09:25
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Hang on just thought of something. Why don't we just declare Ballina SAFIS a perm tra/Tiba due no staff, whack a phone number on the notam for approval, then just do 1 in 1 out and bingo there is your free separation service.
no maps, no charting, no acp, no app, no twr, no atc, no nothing.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 09:30
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Originally Posted by 10JQKA
Hang on just thought of something. Why don't we just declare Ballina SAFIS a perm tra/Tiba due no staff, whack a phone number on the notam for approval, then just do 1 in 1 out and bingo there is your free separation service.
no maps, no charting, no acp, no app, no twr, no atc, no nothing.
Genius!

Along with ADS-B IN, that would make Airservices redundant, thus saving everyone a fortune!
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 11:48
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Hopefully the relatives of the people killed in the mid-air will be comforted by the fact that a paperwork cycle and a bureaucratic invention called an ACP were what delayed the obvious.Those relatives will probably be gobsmacked that no mechanism exists for implementing safety-related airspace arrangements at short notice.

If only there were some way to give notice of different airspace arrangements at short notice, independently of the chart publication cycle. If only.

Keystone Cops doing airspace.
Yes, I read that and thought of the 1950s and typewriters juxtaposed with a box that can give you real-time callsign, speed and altitude of conflicting traffic directly to your cockpit.
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