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AsA TIBA/TRA/OPR Restrictions

Old 28th Jun 2023, 13:36
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AsA TIBA/TRA/OPR Restrictions

C1020/23 REVIEW C1015/23
TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA ACT
IN CTA CLASS A, C, D AND E AIRSPACE
ATS IN THE YBBB FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE OPR RESTRICTIONS IN THE FLW AIRSPACE:
BRISBANE CENTRE 130.4 SPRINGBROOK. DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH)
SECTOR VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'GOLD COAST A, B, C, D, E, F'
CONTINGENCY MAP (LISTED UNDER GOLD COAST IN THE BRISBANE FIR) AVBL AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE TEMPO
RESTRICTED AREA. FREQUENCIES SHOWN ON THE CONTINGENCY MAPS ARE
MONITORED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
RELEVANT APPROVAL FROM CONTROLLING AUTHORITY REQUIRED.
PILOTS REQUESTING OPR IN CLASS A, C OR E AIRSPACE SHALL CTC BRISBANE
CENTRE BY TEL ON +61 7 3866 3798 FOR ACCESS AUTHORITY.
AUTHORISATION TO ENTER THIS TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA DOES NOT CONSTITUTE
CLEARANCE TO ENTER ANY ADJ OR EMBEDDED RESTRICTED AREAS.
ATC SER NOT AVBL IN CLASS A, C, D AND E AIRSPACE.
FIS AVAILABLE ON REQUEST FROM HF AND MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM ADJ ATS UNITS.
PILOTS/OPERATORS CONSIDERING OPERATING IFR IN CLASS G AIRSPACE SHALL
CTC BRISBANE CENTRE BY TEL ON +61 7 3866 3798 FOR FURTHER INFO.
MILITARY OPERATIONS MAY EXIST IN THIS AREA, CHECK PUBLISHED NOTAMS.
PILOTS-IN-COMMAND ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRAIN AND COLLISION
AVOIDANCE WITHIN THE AFFECTED AIRSPACE.

APRX AREA A: 30NM RADIUS SOUTHWEST COUNTER CLOCKWISE TO EAST OF YBCG.
VERTICAL LIMITS: FL125 - FL600
APRX AREA B: BTN 30NM AND 50NM RADIUS SOUTHWEST COUNTER CLOCKWISE TO
SOUTHEAST OF YBCG
VERTICAL LIMITS: FL125 - FL600
APRX AREA C: FM WAYPOINTS VONDO TO HARDD TO A LINE 20NM WEST OF YBCG
BTN 30NM AND 70NM YBBN
VERTICAL LIMITS: BCTA - FL600
APRX AREA D: WITHIN 30NM RADIUS OF YBBN BTN WAYPOINT HARDD COUNTER
CLOCKWISE TO PSN 13NM NORTHEAST SCOTT
VERTICAL LIMITS: FL180 - FL600
APRX AREA E: BTN 30NM AND 50NM RADIUS OF YBBN FM 20NM SOUTHWEST
CLOCKWISE TO 30NM NORTHEAST OF YBCG
VERTICAL LIMITS: A075 - FL600
APRX AREA F: BTN 30NM AND 35NM RADIUS NORTHEAST OF YBCG
VERTICAL LIMITS: BCTA - FL600
TWR, TERMINAL CONTROL UNIT (TCU) AND MILITARY AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE
AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPERATE PER EN ROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.

MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
A464 BTN 12NM EAST SCOTT AND 25NM EAST WINKY
H66 BTN IDNER AND LAGOB
H91 BTN SANEG AND APAGI
H185 BTN OMKAX AND LAGOB
Q47 BTN GOMOL AND 12.5NM NORTH SCOTT
Q53 BTN GOMOL AND 13NM NORTH APAGI
Q69 BTN GOMOL AND MAKRU
Q210 BTN SANEG AND OSTAM
Q923 BTN MUDDL AND 80NM NORTH ISKIM
W128 BTN ENKOG AND 110NM NORTH ALDAR
W760 BTN 10NM SOUTH DULIN AND IDNER
Y23 BTN 13NM SOUTH BERNI AND BERNI
Y43 BTN 10NM SOUTH BERNI AND GREAV
ADS-C/CPDLC LOGON: YBBB SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. ACFT MAY REMAIN
LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BCST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQ.
TIBA FREQUENCIES: AT OR ABOVE FL200 128.95 MHZ. BELOW FL200 126.35
MHZ, EXCEPT IN DOMESTIC CLASS G AIRSPACE WHERE THE CLASS G FREQ SHALL BE USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
SUGGESTED DIVERION ROUTES, IF ALT ROUTE IS REQUIRED CONTACT BRISBANE
CENTRE BY TEL ON +61 7 3866 3798:
YBBN-YSSY BN GUMKI VIRGE BONEY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT
YBBN-YSCB BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM SGE NIPIN CWR W137 CB
YBBN-YMML BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO Y33 BORLI UQ346 POLSO Q923 CANTY H119 ML
YBBN-YMAV BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO Y33 BORLI UQ346 POLSO Q923 CANTY H119 ML W15 AV
YBBN-YMEN BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM ROKUU H12 TESAT WOL H65 RAZZI Q29 LUVAS UQ205 COLDS V512 ESDAN
YBBN-YPAD BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO VENEL Q53 WOONA Q60 BLACK H309 AD
YBBN-YPPH BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO MACLA T33 LEC J141 KG Q41 HAMTN Q158 PH
YBBN-YWLM BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM ROKUU H12 VIREN SANAD W606 WLM
YBBN-YMHB BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM ROKUU H12 TESAT H65 WOL H20 MOTRA W407 TASUM
YBBN-YMLT BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM ROKUU H12 TESAT H65 WOL H20 OTKED J22 LT
ALL OTHER YBBN DEPARTURES EAST/SOUTH-EAST TO PLAN VIA BN GUMKI VIRGE BONEY
ALL OTHER YBBN DEPARTURES SOUTH TO PLAN VIA BN WACKO V250 LEBIT V412 ROM
YBCG-YSSY GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT
YBCG-YMML GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT H65 RAZZI Q29 ML
YBCG-YMHB GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT H65 WOL H20 MOTRA W407 TASUM
YBCG-YMLT GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT H65 WOL H20 OTKED J22 LT
YBCG-YPAD GOMOL DEWEY KATEB Y258 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO VENEL Q53 WOONA Q60 BLACK H309 AD
YBCG-YWLM GOMOL DEWEY KATEB Y258 LEBIT V412 ROM ROKUU H12 VIREN SANAD W606 WLM
YBCG-YSCB GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT H65 CB
YBCG-YPPH GOMOL DEWEY KATEB Y258 LEBIT V412 ROM SAPNO MACLA T33 LEC J141 KG Q41 HAMTN Q158 PH
YBCG-YBCS GOMOL DEWEY KATEB Q47 ITIDE GUDSO Q67 CS
YBCG-YMAV GOMOL DEWEY NETTY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT H65 RAZZI Q29 ML W15 AV
ALL OTHER YBCG DEPARTURES WEST/SOUTH/EAST TO PLAN VIA GOMOL DEWEY NETTY
ALL OTHER YBCG DEPARTURES NORTH/NORTH-WEST TO PLAN VIA GOMOL DEWEY KATEB
YBSU-YSSY SU MOOLO ATROP VIRGE BONEY SIFRA MISLY BISAB UQ489 NONID N774 TESAT
YBSU-YSCB SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM SGE NIPIN CWR W137 CB
YBSU-YPAD SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM SAPNO VENEL Q53 WOONA Q60 BLACK H309 AD
YBSU-YWLM SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM ROKUU H12 VIREN SANAD W606 WLM
YBSU-YMAV SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM SAPNO Y33 BORLI UQ346 POLSO Q923 CANTY H119 ML W15 AV
YBSU-YMML SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM SAPNO Y33 BORLI UQ346 POLSO Q923 CANTY H119 ML
ALL OTHER YBSU DEPARTURES SOUTH-WEST TO PLAN VIA SU TAPET LOAFA COOLA ROM
ALL OTHER YBSU DEPARTURES SOUTH/SOUTH-EAST TO PLAN VIA SU MOOLO ATROP VIRGE BONEY
YSSY-YBCG TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YSSY-YBBN TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY DUBUD GATER SAVER UGTUG BN
YSSY-YBSU TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY DUBUD GATER ITIDE SU
YMML-YBCG ML H129 DOSEL Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YMML-YBBN ML H66 MUDGI H105 NBR RACHL SUKTU Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
YMML-YBSU ML H66 MUDGI H19 ROM SUSGI SEBVA SU
YPAD-YBCG AD H247 CULIN Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YPAD-YBSU AD SEDAN Y465 GUMAP ROM SUSGI SEBVA SU
YPAD-YBBN AD SEDAN Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
YPPH-YBCG PH H18 MUBID J21 BORLI UH205 CULIN Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YPPH-YBSU PH Y31 LAKIR Y69 BOSLI Y67 KG J141 LEC Y94 AROLI ROM SUSGI SEBVA SU
YPPH-YBBN PH Y31 LAKIR Y69 BOSLI Y67 KG J141 LEC T33 RACHL Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP
YSCB-YBCG CB W423 CULIN Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YSCB-YBBN CB W137 AVBEG W184 MUDGI H105 NBR RACHL SUKTU Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
YSCB-YBSU CB W423 CULIN Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY DUBUD GATER ITIDE SU
YWLM-YBCG BUBRI W174 TW W220 NBR H105 SULMI Q165 ROM Y79 WOODY BN Y177 GOMOL
YWLM-YBBN BUBRI W174 TW KARDI SUKTU Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
YWLM-YBSU BUBRI W174 TW W220 NBR H105 SULMI Q165 ROM SUSGI SEBVA BN
YMHB-YBCG TASUM H111 LT W218 NOLAN UY327 MAKRL J163 CB W423 CULIN Y59 TESAT G595 ATNAT MISLY SIFRA LAMSI CG
YMHB-YBBN TASUM H111 LT W218 NOLAN UY327 MAKRL J163 CB W137 AVBEG W184 MUDGI H105 NBR RACHL SUKTU Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
YMHB-YBSU TASUM H111 LT H215 WAREN W687 ML H66 MUDGI H19 ROM SUSGI SEBVA SU
ALL OTHER YBBN ARRIVALS FROM EAST/SOUTH-EAST TO PLAN VIA DUBUD GATER SAVER UGTUG BN
ALL OTHER YBBN ARRIVALS FROM THE SOUTH TO PLAN VIA RACHL Y465 EDPEG PARRY ENLIP BN
ALL OTHER YBCG ARRIVALS TO PLAN VIA SIFRA LAMSI CG
ALL OTHER YBSU ARRIVALS FROM SOUTH-EAST TO PLAN VIA DUBUD GATER ITIDE SU
ALL OTHER YBSU ARRIVALS FROM SOUTH-WEST TO PLAN VIA ROM SUSGI SEBVA SU
6500FT AMSL TO FL600
FROM 06 282000 TO 06 290330
TIBA south of BN. Possibly the world's longest NOTAM. The ATCs operating the airspace surrounding the TIBA airspace are going to have a tough day, alternate routes, different traffic patterns, more traffic, different callsigns and different coordination requirements (to usual).






Last edited by sunnySA; 31st Jul 2023 at 11:55. Reason: spacing
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Top Answer

12th Jul 2023, 11:12
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With all this talk about sick leave let me relate my (alleged) personal experience working for an (alleged government monopoly) transportation service provider.

100+ controllers get paid big $ to retire early when we are already at just below critical staffing levels . This creates huge staffing issues off the bat. To cover the shortfall, against ATC wishes the employer change rosters to add an extra day of work per fortnight.

Work life balance aside, this changed roster reduces the amount of controllers per shift. Less people doing more work. This means operating sectors combined which dramatically increase workload. I finish each shift absolutely fried. But before I finish I am asked to extend because the next shift is short because of the early retirements. Sure, Iíll extend. Help the crew out. Instantly regret the decision as Iím getting slammed by traffic operating combined sectors that were previously split. Have a scare and see a conflict later than I would like. Get home absolutely wrecked.

Trying to unwind and I get a phone call. See it is work so I ignore it. Get a text asking if i can start early tomorrow. No, sorry. Im tired. Ok well can I start later and finish later? Fine. It is my last day of the cycle and theyíre short staffed and itís going to be a busy evening so whatever. Help the team out.

Sectors combined when they previously were not. Get slammed. Tricky winds meant that base is very hard to judge. Every sequence is tight. Few hours to go. Separating and sequencing traffic until the last minute of my shift which finishes at 2300. Despite getting home close to midnight I look forward to my by this point day and a half off.

Wake up to 2 missed calls and a text. Can I give them anything? No, sorry. Iím tired. Same again next morning. Theyíre desperate. Anything I can do will keep airspace open. Fine I will give you 4 hours. Get in and asked to extend? No Im back at 0530 tomorrow. Get slammed for 4 hours working sectors combined that we previously had staff to work split. Regret coming in. Read an email on my break from an executive essentially saying we are slacking and it is the fault of the operational ATC that the staffing and airspace crisis is the way it is.


Have a splitting headache by the time I get home and the hubby is mad. I get an early night but cannot sleep because the new roster is the most fatiguing I have ever worked.

Back at 0530, same old story. Combined sectors. Slammed. Can I extend? My headache is worse. Stare at the ceiling again. Am I fit to work tomorrow? Not sure. Will I extend anymore? No. Am I available on my lovely 2 days off that is really about a day an a half? No. Not anymore.

That, In my opinion, is why there are so many TIBAs and TRAs
Old 28th Jun 2023, 13:48
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Originally Posted by sunnySA
TIBA south of BN. Possibly the world's longest NOTAM. The ATCs operating the airspace surrounding the TIBA airspace are going to have a tough day, alternate routes, different traffic patterns, more traffic, different callsigns and different coordination requirements (to usual).
But wait, there's more. Many of the suggested diversion routes to avoid TIBA airspace goes through three of the sector volumes that itself are operating at reduced capacity.

B975/23
ATS OPR AT REDUCED CAPACITY
DUE TO OPR RESTRICTIONS IN THE FLW AIRSPACE:
BRISBANE CENTRE 134.3 MT GLORIOUS. DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH)
SECTOR VOLUME NAME AFFECTED IS 'STRADDY A' AND 'STRADDY B'.
MAP OF AFFECTED AIRSPACE (LISTED UNDER STRADDY IN THE BRISBANE FIR)
AVBL AT HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
APRX AREA: SOUTHEAST QUEENSLAND BTN 30NM - 150NM EAST OF BRISBANE
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
A464 BTN SCOTT AND 60NM NORTHWEST DUBUD
B520 BTN GUMKI AND MEPEM
G329 BTN BONEY AND SAVER
J208 BTN SCOTT AND CHEWY
L503 BTN SAVER AND WODAY
M639 BTN SAVER AND NETTY
N584 BTN LAMSI AND SIFRA
P880 BTN SCOTT AND 100NM NORTHWEST MISLY
Q21 BTN HARVS AND SAVER
Q39 BTN GATER AND SAVER
Q144 BTN MEPEM AND ATROP
R587 BTN 40NM NORTHWEST BN AND 35NM WEST HARVS
T53 BTN 40NM SOUTHEAST GOMOL AND LAROS
Y76 BTN SCOTT AND SIFRA
Y258 BTN KATEB AND 8.5NM WEST KATEB
Q47 BTN 12.5NM NORTH SCOTT AND 17.5NM SOUTHWEST ITIDE
Y88 BTN GUMKI AND 36NM SOUTWEST HARVS
Y98 BTN GUMKI AND BONEY
AERIAL WORK NOT AVBL
SURVEY OPS NOT AVBL
EXPECT DELAY FOR CLEARANCE
FOR FURTHER INFO CTC DUTY ATM DIRECTOR BY TEL +613 9235 7550.
SFC TO FL600
FROM 06 281930 TO 06 291500


B976/23
ATS IN THE YBBB FIR OPR AT REDUCED CAPACITY DUE OPERATIONAL
RESTRICTIONS
IN THE FLW AIRSPACE: BRISBANE CENTRE 124.625 (OCA ROUTES BEYOND 200NM
NE OF SY), 124.95 (LORD HOWE ISLAND AREA) AND 132.85 (OCA ROUTES
BEYOND 150NM E OF BN). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR
VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'FLINDERS' AND 'LORD HOWE'.
MAPS OF AFFECTED AIRSPACE (LISTED UNDER CORAL/FLINDERS AND
HOWE/TASMAN IN THE BRISBANE FIR) AVBL AT
HTTPS://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM...MAPS/INDEX.ASP
APRX AREA: AIRSPACE IN EASTERN AUSTRALIAN OCEANIC AREA (E OF THE OCA
BDRY BTN APRX 17S AND APRX 34S).
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
A346 BTN 67NW LEEAM AND TEKEP,
A464 BTN 63NW DUBUD AND RIGMI,
A579 BTN JORDY AND UBLIN,
A598 BTN 20S PONUX AND 177N PUGEL,
B333 BTN 222NW PUGEL AND RUMIX,
B450 BTN ABARB AND TEKEP,
B474 BTN BEADS AND MEPAB,
B578 BTN MEPEM AND TEBUR,
B580 BTN IFFEY AND VESUN,
B586 BTN 335NW BODEG AND BODEG,
G329 BTN BONEY AND DOVOM,
G591 BTN 307W PUGEL AND MEPAB,
G595 BTN SOTKI AND SARAP,
J208 BTN CHEWY AND LHI,
L503 BTN WODAY AND 17SE TESAS,
M639 BTN NETTY AND 170SE LHI,
N584 BTN 68NW SIFRA AND 258SE SIFRA,
P880 BTN 105NW MISLY AND 206SE MISLY,
Q39 BTN DUBUD AND GATER,
R587 BTN 36SW HARVS AND MEPAB,
T53 BTN LAROS AND MISLY,
UH224 BTN 21SW PONUX AND PONUX,
UH258 BTN LHI AND GOOMA,
UJ328 BTN BISAB AND ISTEM,
UQ489 BTN 7SW AVNIB AND BISAB,
UY70 BTN 16SW DUDEP AND BISAB,
Y76 BTN 68NW SIFRA AND SIFRA,
Y88 BTN 36SW HARVS AND HARVS.
FOR FURTHER INFO CTC BRISBANE DUTY OPERATIONS MANAGER BY TEL
+61 3 9235 7550.
SFC TO FL600
FROM 06 281930 TO 06 291500

B972/23
ATS OPR AT REDUCED CAPACITY
BRISBANE CENTRE 128.6 (KINGS TABLELAND). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK
(DAH) SECTOR VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE 'OCEAN' AND 'OCEAN/SYDNEY
CAP'.
MAP OF AFFECTED AIRSPACE (LISTED UNDER OCEAN IN THE BRISBANE FIR)
AVBL AT HTTPS://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM...MAPS/INDEX.ASP
APRX AREA: 15NM TO 200NM EAST YSSY FM 042 - 122 DEGREES
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
A579 BTN JORDY AND SHAZA
B450 BTN NOBAR AND ABARB
B474 BTN NOBAR AND BEADS
B580 BTN NOBAR AND IFFEY
G595 BTN DIPSO AND SOTKI
L521 BTN EVONN AND GEROS
M636 BTN CAWLY AND PLUGA
N774 BTN AKALU AND MARLN
UH258 BTN GOOMA AND RIKNI
UQ489 BTN NONID AND AVNIB
UY70 BTN ATNAT AND DUDEP
Y84 BTN OPTIC AND TONIM
AWK NOT AVBL
SVY OPS NOT AVBL
EXPECT DELAY FOR CLEARANCE
FOR FURTHER INFO CTC DUTY ATM DIRECTOR BY TEL +61 3 9235 7550
SFC TO FL600
FROM 06 281930 TO 06 291500

Last edited by sunnySA; 28th Jun 2023 at 13:57. Reason: changed from 1 to 3 sector volumes and added extra NOTAM
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 20:23
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Using TCAS as a prime defence and as a consequence in the target level of safety is a disgrace and compromises all concepts and principles of air traffic control…



Fourth world country….



The Board and Executive of AsA should be summarily sacked for doing it…



The Board and Executive of CASA should be summarily sacked for allowing it…



The Board and Executive of ATSB should be summarily sacked for not identifying and highlighting the unmitigated risks….



May God forgive them for they know not what they’re doing…because no human will or ever should….



The total lack of integrity dictates referral to the NACC.

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Old 28th Jun 2023, 21:26
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Jetstar 400 SYD-OOL looks like itís tracking to Fiji!
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 21:43
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I've said it before - If TIBA "Is safe" now, such that ASA can propose it, and CASA will approve its' regular use, then "it's safe" for everyday use and we can get rid of the vast majority of ATCO's. Can't we? TIBA is either "safe" or it's not. If CASA allows it - when their overarching goal is "the safety of air navigation at all costs" - why bother having ATC separate us anyway?

I do hope all the terminal monitors around the country show "DELAYED DUE ATC SHORT STAFFING" It's the only way the SLF will become aware of just how bad things are...For those up the pointy end, if you're getting long in the tooth, don't extend, don't use your discretion to complete a flight beyond your rostered hours if you're delayed downroute. Put the ball squarely back on the Company to lean on CASA and ASA to fix this.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 22:46
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Perhaps our on board PAs should start reflecting the reality of this man made situation?
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 22:57
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I've said it before - If TIBA "Is safe" now, such that ASA can propose it, and CASA will approve its' regular use, then "it's safe" for everyday use and we can get rid of the vast majority of ATCO's. Can't we? TIBA is either "safe" or it's not. If CASA allows it - when their overarching goal is "the safety of air navigation at all costs" - why bother having ATC separate us anyway?
Yep brought to you by the same clowns who approve SODPROPS and LAHSO. The real issue with CASA is that noone is ever responsible for anything. It has been suggested before on here but CASA need to be blown up completely and replaced by a government department who has a minister in charge. At least then they are on the hook when there is a mid air collision because right now all that will happen is that there will be a investigation which will blame the PICs for failing to see and avoid at 1000knots closing speed.

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Old 28th Jun 2023, 23:18
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Perhaps our on board PAs should start reflecting the reality of this man made situation?
Completely agree!

”We’re delayed because Airservices Australia has mismanaged the retention and recruitment of air traffic controllers and as such they don’t have enough controllers to manage the airspace safely”.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 00:42
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”We’re delayed because Airservices Australia has mismanaged the retention and recruitment of air traffic controllers and as such they don’t have enough controllers to manage the airspace safely”.

that’s perfect Brokenagain, it’s not the ATCO’s on the line, it’s management. Think I’ll use that one………
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 01:46
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ASA management are fully responsible for the current situation, remember it wasnít long ago they had the nerve argue they were 100 controllers over staffed. How much worse must things get before the board and the executive are sacked?
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 04:16
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I think it was eight weeks ago they said this:
Airservices employs more than 900 ATCs, 97 per cent of which are in operational roles. Airservices only requires about 800 ATCs to fully staff the ATC network,” said a spokesperson for Airservices in a statement.
Sounds like they have about 100 spare controllers, I think the minister should ask them to call them in for some compulsory overtime.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 08:48
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It’s all perfectly safe. Except for known unknowns.

​​​​​​CASA views the current use of contingency management practices as unsustainable and is actively engaging directly with Airservices Australia (AA) to assist them to address the underlying drivers so that they can deliver services to the expected level. Whilst the contingency practices used do provide an acceptable level of safety performance at the location level, the widespread regular use of contingency practices across the entire system may introduce additional risk which will need to be monitored. CASA intend to address the root cause of the issues raised, through a combination of surveillance (key focus areas), enforcement and direct consultation.
Less surveillance and consultation and more enforcement would be appreciated.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 10:43
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Cairns and Townsville getting the TIBA treatment tonight.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 11:54
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
Itís all perfectly safe. Except for known unknowns. Less surveillance and consultation and more enforcement would be appreciated.
Hopefully the CASA surveillance team were knocking on the glass door of Brisbane Centre at 5:30m this morning to surveil the transition to TIBA.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 13:41
  #15 (permalink)  
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ML FIR TIBA 30 June 2023

And YMMM as well.
C1097/23
TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA ACT
IN CTA CLASS E AIRSPACE.
ATS IN THE YMMM FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE TO OPR RESTRICTIONS IN
THE FLW AIRSPACE:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 134.65 (RIVERINA AREA NEW SOUTH WALES). DESIGNATED
AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'TEMORA A
AND B'.
CONTINGENCY MAP (LISTED UNDER TEMORA IN THE MELBOURNE FIR) AVBL AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE
RESTRICTED AREA. FREQUENCIES SHOWN ON THE CONTINGENCY MAPS ARE
MONITORED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
RELEVANT APPROVAL FROM CONTROLLING AUTHORITY REQUIRED.
PILOTS REQUESTING OPR IN CLASS E AIRSPACE SHALL CTC MELBOURNE CENTRE
TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR ACCESS AUTHORITY.
AUTHORISATION TO ENTER THIS TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA DOES NOT CONSTITUTE
CLEARANCE TO ENTER ANY ADJ OR EMBEDDED RESTRICTED AREAS.
ATC SER NOT AVBL IN CLASS E AIRSPACE.
FIS AVAILABLE ON REQUEST FROM HF AND MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM ADJ ATS
UNITS.
PILOTS/OPERATORS CONSIDERING OPR IN CLASS G SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR FURTHER INFO.
MILITARY OPERATIONS MAY EXIST IN THIS AREA, CHECK PUBLISHED NOTAMS.
PILOTS-IN-COMMAND ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRAIN AND COLLISION
AVOIDANCE WITHIN THE AFFECTED AIRSPACE.
APRX AREA A: VELGI, SCAPA, ASUMU, 15NM NORTH WG VOR, 20NM SOUTH
VINOP, 30NM WEST BORLI, YHLS, 20NM NORTH YLCG, VELGI.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL245
APRX AREA B: VELGI, 20NM NORTH YLCG, 30NM NORTH YLCG, 15NM NORTHWEST
PKS VOR, VELGI.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL125
TWR, TERMINAL CONTROL UNIT (TCU) AND MIL AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE
AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPR AS PER EN ROUTE SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) UNLESS
SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
H44 BTN 30NM WEST CWR NDB AND 30NM WEST BORLI
ROUTES TO/FM BORLI (WITHIN 30NM TO THE WEST AND 100NM EAST)
Q923 BETWEEN 30NM AND 140NM SOUTH PKS VOR
ADS-C/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. ACFT MAY REMAIN
LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BCST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQ.
TRAFFIC INFO BCST BY ACFT (TIBA) PROCEDURES AS DETAILED IN AIP APPLY.
TIBA FREQUENCIES: AT OR ABOVE FL200 128.95 MHZ. BELOW FL200 126.35
MHZ, EXC IN DOMESTIC CLASS G AIRSPACE WHERE THE CLASS G FREQ SHALL BE
USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
SFC TO FL245
FROM 06 291400 TO 06 291900


C1096/23
TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA ACT
IN CTA CLASS E AIRSPACE.
ATS IN THE YMMM FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE OPR RESTRICTIONS IN
THE FLW AIRSPACE:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 125.8, 122.1, 118.6, 124.3, 120.3 AND 135.45
(WESTERN VICTORIA, SOUTH-EASTERN SOUTH AUSTRALIA AND SOUTH-WEST NEW
SOUTH WALES). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR VOLUME NAMES
AFFECTED ARE: 'MALLEE A, B, AND C'.
CONTINGENCY MAP (LISTED UNDER MALLEE IN THE MELBOURNE FIR) AVBL AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE
RESTRICTED AREA. FREQUENCIES SHOWN ON THE CONTINGENCY MAPS ARE
MONITORED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
RELEVANT APPROVAL FROM CONTROLLING AUTHORITY REQUIRED.
PILOTS REQUESTING OPR IN CLASS E AIRSPACE SHALL CTC MELBOURNE CENTRE
TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR ACCESS AUTHORITY.
AUTHORISATION TO ENTER THIS TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA DOES NOT CONSTITUTE
CLEARANCE TO ENTER ANY ADJ OR EMBEDDED RESTRICTED AREAS.
ATC SER NOT AVBL IN CLASS E AIRSPACE.
FIS AVAILABLE ON REQUEST FROM HF AND MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM ADJ ATS
UNITS.
PILOTS/OPERATORS CONSIDERING OPR IN CLASS G SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR FURTHER INFO.
PILOTS-IN-COMMAND ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRAIN AND COLLISION
AVOIDANCE WITHIN THE AFFECTED AIRSPACE.
MILITARY OPERATIONS MAY EXIST IN THIS AREA, CHECK PUBLISHED NOTAMS.
APRX AREA: MEECE, 14NM NORTHWEST ALTRO, 12NM SOUTHEAST KONDO, PILTA,
YIVO, YHLS, BORLI, VINOP, WG VOR, YYWG, 100NM ARC ML, YCTY, 39S 139
30E, YRBE, 110NM SOUTH AD VOR, 100NM SOUTH AD VOR, 100NM ARC AD VOR,
MEECE.
TWR, TERMINAL CONTROL UNIT (TCU) AND MIL AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE
AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPR AS PER EN ROUTE SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) UNLESS
SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
H102 BTN MIA NDB AND NATYA
T131 BTN BORTO AND 120NM BORTO
J21 BTN KABEK AND BORLI
H21 BTN NATYA AND WG VOR
H36 BTN 40NM EAST BENDO AND 20NM WEST KACEY
H44 BTN BORLI AND 100NM YPAD
Q76 BTN 50NM NORTH MNG AND 80NM NORTH TOBOB
H119 BTN 150NM NORTH NATYA AND 100NM NORTH CANTY
H247 BTN PANKI AND 80NM CULIN
H345 BTN NEVIS AND DUKES
J19 BTN NATYA AND 60NM SOUTH BHI VOR
J142 BTN 100NM WEST NONUP AND BORTO
Q32 BTN BORLI AND 100NM EAST YPAD
Q60 BTN 30NM WEST WG VOR AND WOONA
Q923 PKS VOR AND 60NM NORTH CANTY
Q158 BTN 100NM YMML AND CRENA
Q168 BTN 100NM YMML AND 50NM SOUTH EAST KABEK
T8 BTN WYMER AND CRENA
Y425 BTN UBDIB AND ALASU
Y23 BTN UBDIB AND 50NM EAST VENEL
T134 BTN 70NM EAST AND 80NM WEST NOGIP
UQ346 BTN BORLI AND POLSO
Y12 BTN 100NM YPAD AND 100NM YMML
Y23 BETWEEN UBDIB AND 60NM WEST VENEL
Y53 BTN 60NM WEST YMTG AND TYNDI
Y218 BTN 50NM EAST BENDO AND TYNDI
W245 BTN YHML AND 100NM YMML
ADS-C/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. ACFT MAY REMAIN
LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BCST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQ.
TRAFFIC INFO BCST BY ACFT (TIBA) PROCEDURES AS DETAILED IN AIP.
TIBA FREQUENCIES: AT OR ABOVE FL200 128.95 MHZ. BELOW FL200 126.35
MHZ, EXC IN DOMESTIC CLASS G AIRSPACE WHERE THE CLASS G FREQ SHALL BE
USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
SFC TO FL245
FROM 06 291400 TO 06 291900


C1095/23
TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA ACT
IN CTA CLASS C AND E AIRSPACE.
ATS IN THE YMMM FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE TO OPR RESTRICTIONS IN
THE FLW AIRSPACE:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 123.9, 135.25 AND 118.5 (NEW SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
TABLELANDS, DUBBO, WARREN, TOTTENHAM AREA). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE
HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'BATHURST A, B, C, D
AND E' AND 'DUBBO A, B AND C'.
CONTINGENCY MAP (LISTED UNDER BATHURST/DUBBO IN THE MELBOURNE FIR)
AVBL AT HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE
RESTRICTED AREA. FREQUENCIES SHOWN ON THE CONTINGENCY MAPS ARE
MONITORED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
RELEVANT APPROVAL FROM CONTROLLING AUTHORITY REQUIRED.
PILOTS REQUESTING OPR IN CLASS C OR E AIRSPACE SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR ACCESS AUTHORITY.
AUTHORISATION TO ENTER THIS TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA DOES NOT CONSTITUTE
CLEARANCE TO ENTER ANY ADJ OR EMBEDDED RESTRICTED AREAS.
ATC SER NOT AVBL IN CLASS C AND E AIRSPACE.
FIS AVAILABLE ON REQUEST FROM HF AND MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM ADJ ATS
UNITS.
PILOTS/OPERATORS CONSIDERING OPR IN CLASS G SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 9235 7455 FOR FURTHER INFO.
MILITARY OPERATIONS MAY EXIST IN THIS AREA, CHECK PUBLISHED NOTAMS.
PILOTS-IN-COMMAND ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRAIN AND COLLISION
AVOIDANCE WITHIN THE AFFECTED AIRSPACE.
APRX AREA A: 5NM SOUTH KADOM, 30NM NORTHWEST AKMIR, 10NM EAST YYNG,
12NM SOUTHEAST PKS VOR, MUDGI, 20NM NORTHWEST YSRI, SOUTH ALONG 45NM
ARC SY DME, 5NM SOUTH KADOM.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL180
APRX AREA B: 10NM SOUTH SCAPA, VELGI, 30NM SOUTHWEST DU NDB, 40NM
SOUTHWEST MUDGI, 12NM SOUTHEAST PKS VOR, 10NM EAST SCAPA, 10NM SOUTH
SCAPA.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL245
APRX AREA C: 30NM SOUTHWEST YSDU, 40NM SOUTHWEST MUDGI, MUDGI, 15NM
NORTHEAST DU NDB, 30NM SOUTHWEST DU NDB.
VERTICAL LIMITS: FL180 - FL245
APRX AREA D: 20NM WEST CNM, 10NM NORTH YNYN, 30NM NORTH YLCG, 15NM
NORTHWEST PKS NDB, DU NDB, 15NM NORTHEAST YSDU, 20NM WEST YCNM.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL245
APRX AREA E: 30NM SOUTHWEST DU NDB, 40NM SOUTHWEST MUDGI, MUDGI, 15NM
NORTHEAST DU NDB, 30NM SOUTHWEST DU NDB.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL180
APRX AREA F: 30NM NORTH YLCG, 20NM NORTH YLCG, 20NM WEST ATVAK, 10NM
NORTHWEST VELGI, 15NM NORTHWEST PKS NDB, 30NM NORTH YLCG.
VERTICAL LIMITS: FL125 - FL245
TWR, TERMINAL CONTROL UNIT (TCU) AND MIL AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE
AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPERATE AS PER EN ROUTE SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
KADOM TO BTH NDB, CWR NDB, VIRUR, PKS VOR AND 50NM SOUTHEAST DU NDB
PKS, VIRUR BTH NDB AND 50NM SOUTH DU NDB, TO 30NM NORTH AKMIR
UH226 BTN 15NM YSRI AND ENPAG
H44 BTH KADOM AND 30NM WEST OF CWR NDB
Q923 BTN GIZMO AND 25NM SOUTHWEST PKS VOR
H66 BTN ABM 120NM SOUTH MUDGI AND MUDGI
V295 BTN 45NM YSSY TO 50NM SOUTHEAST DU NDB
W540 BTN DU NDB AND HUMOK
W731 BTN DU NDB AND LLAMA
W516 BTN DU NDB AND 75NM WEST DU NDB
W822 BTN DU NDB AND HILAR
W785 BTN DU NDB AND MUDGI
W760 AND W326 BTN DU NDB AND 20NM NORTHEAST DU NDB
ADS-C/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. ACFT MAY REMAIN
LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BCST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQ.
TRAFFIC INFO BCST BY ACFT (TIBA) PROCEDURES AS DETAILED IN AIP APPLY.
TIBA FREQUENCIES: AT OR ABOVE FL200 128.95 MHZ. BELOW FL200 126.35
MHZ, EXC IN DOMESTIC CLASS G AIRSPACE WHERE THE CLASS G FREQ SHALL BE
USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
SFC TO FL245
FROM 06 291400 TO 06 291900


C1094/23
TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA ACT
IN CTA CLASS A, C AND E AIRSPACE.
ATS IN THE YMMM FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE TO OPR RESTRICTIONS IN
THE FLW AIRSPACE:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 123.9, 123.95, 130.3, 122.6, 120.7 AND 126.5
(TASMANIA AND BASS STRAIT). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR
VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'HUON A, B AND C'.
OUTSIDE ERSA TWR/APP HRS, THE FLW AIRSPACE IS ALSO AFFECTED:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 123.8, 125.55 (TASMANIA). DESIGNATED AIRSPACE
HANDBOOK (DAH) SECTOR VOLUME NAMES AFFECTED ARE: 'HOBART APPROACH'
AND 'LAUNCESTON APPROACH'.
CONTINGENCY MAP (LISTED UNDER TASMANIA/HUON IN THE MELBOURNE FIR)
AVBL AT HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOTAMMAPS/INDEX.ASP
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE
RESTRICTED AREA. FREQUENCIES SHOWN ON THE CONTINGENCY MAPS ARE
MONITORED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
RELEVANT APPROVAL FROM CONTROLLING AUTHORITY REQUIRED.
PILOTS REQUESTING OPR IN CLASS A, C OR E AIRSPACE SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 92357455 FOR ACCESS AUTHORITY.
AUTHORISATION TO ENTER THIS TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA DOES NOT CONSTITUTE
CLEARANCE TO ENTER ANY ADJ OR EMBEDDED RESTRICTED AREAS.
ATC SER NOT AVBL IN CLASS A, C AND E AIRSPACE.
FIS AVAILABLE ON REQUEST FROM HF AND MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM ADJ ATS
UNITS.
PILOTS/OPERATORS CONSIDERING OPR IFR IN CLASS G SHALL CTC MELBOURNE
CENTRE TEL: (PLUS) 61 3 92357455 FOR FURTHER INFO.
MILITARY OPERATIONS MAY EXIST IN THIS AREA, CHECK PUBLISHED NOTAMS.
PILOTS-IN-COMMAND ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRAIN AND COLLISION
AVOIDANCE WITHIN THE AFFECTED AIRSPACE.
APRX AREA: BTN 141E AND 151E, SOUTH OF THE AUSTRALIAN MAINLAND, AND
SOUTH OF PUBLISHED ATS ROUTES BETWEEN YMML AND NEW ZEALAND, NORTH OF
44S.
TWR, TERMINAL CONTROL UNIT (TCU) AND MIL AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE
AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPERATE AS PER EN ROUTE SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.
MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
ALL ROUTES WITHIN TASMANIA
ALL ROUTES BTN MAINLAND AUSTRALIA AND TASMANIA
ALL ROUTES TO AND FROM KII AND NUNPA
L513 BTN TUNGO AND HEWIT
M643 BTN HB VOR AND PECOB
ADS-C/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. ACFT MAY REMAIN
LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BCST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQ.
TRAFFIC INFO BCST BY ACFT (TIBA) PROCEDURES AS DETAILED IN AIP APPLY.
TIBA FREQUENCIES: AT OR ABOVE FL200 128.95 MHZ. BELOW FL200 126.35
MHZ, EXC IN DOMESTIC CLASS G AIRSPACE WHERE THE CLASS G FREQ SHALL BE
USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
SFC TO FL600
FROM 06 291400 TO 06 291900
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 13:46
  #16 (permalink)  
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Why do some of the AsA Contingency Charts have route structures and other don't? Please explain.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 21:03
  #17 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe ASA could retrain some staff from the Office of Pointless Waypoint Renaming - apparently plently of resources there.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 22:10
  #18 (permalink)  
 
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ASA, CASA & the ATSB are right. Nothing to see here. It's Safe - because we say it is safe. Nevermind the fact we've closed off several hundred thousand cubic miles of airspace because we're chronically short of ATCO's, but if you have TCAS and a PPR number, you're good to go, self-separating in the Flight Levels at closing speeds of 1,000knots with hundreds of paying passengers behind you.

Yep, nowt to see 'ere. Moving on.

Todays airspace closures:
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 22:28
  #19 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DROPS
I feel like this has been the new normal for 15 years.

But never quite as new, or normal, as the past 18 months.

It's like nobody wants to be the first to blink.
I think AsA are running the catchphrase "These Are Not the Droids You Are Looking For" and CASA are falling for it.

Hopefully the ATCs working at reduced capacity due operational restrictions (short staffing) in the 'STRADDY A', 'STRADDY B', 'FLINDERS', 'LORD HOWE' and 'OCEAN/SYDNEY CAP' sector volumes weren't overloaded by the extra traffic flying the contingency routes. And if they were overloaded, pressured to accept additional traffic that they submitted a CAIR. I guess we'll only know in a 6 or 7 months time when a CAIR (or 15 consolidated in 1) gets published.

Last edited by sunnySA; 31st Jul 2023 at 11:57. Reason: typo
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Old 30th Jun 2023, 02:12
  #20 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Perhaps our on board PAs should start reflecting the reality of this man made situation?
One airline has already directed this. When Airservices found out they went to the media and had a sook about how unfair it was.
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