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Jetstar and Ballina again

Old 2nd Nov 2023, 13:31
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I don’t disagree that this issue has dragged on way too long, but at least OAR is actually kicking ASA into gear to provide a proper service instead of this Clayton’s atc thats normally declared TIBA anyway.

It should be noted that there are people that will be adversely affected by this, forcing them to avoid this new airspace just like they do in Coffs. For this reason I applaude OAR for making sure those who are affected do in fact have a chance to put their views forward. We all bitch when CASA just goes and does stuff without asking, but here we are and they are trying to work with us yet people are still bitching.

and whilst Lead Balloon seems to not be a fan of ADS-B, I think you’ll find those are views of yesteryear and actually, in 2023, this is the standard globally, reduces cost for all of us (instead of MSSR), and provides benefits such as additional situational awareness through ADS-B (IN). It’s a thumbs up from me!
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 14:06
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Originally Posted by Flying_higher
I donít disagree that this issue has dragged on way too long, but at least OAR is actually kicking ASA into gear to provide a proper service instead of this Claytonís atc thats normally declared TIBA anyway.

It should be noted that there are people that will be adversely affected by this, forcing them to avoid this new airspace just like they do in Coffs. For this reason I applaude OAR for making sure those who are affected do in fact have a chance to put their views forward. We all bitch when CASA just goes and does stuff without asking, but here we are and they are trying to work with us yet people are still bitching.

and whilst Lead Balloon seems to not be a fan of ADS-B, I think youíll find those are views of yesteryear and actually, in 2023, this is the standard globally, reduces cost for all of us (instead of MSSR), and provides benefits such as additional situational awareness through ADS-B (IN). Itís a thumbs up from me!
Aviation Green Paper (Towards 205) is seeking views on "whether a mandate for ADS-B OUT should be required over the medium term to manage increasing airspace congestion".
Green Paper Page 11 ADS-B OUT, ADS-B IN, probably a typo.

Perhaps have a look at the "ASD-B IN Ė A different perspective on the recent hype" thread on The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions forum.
ASD-B IN Ė A different perspective on the recent hype
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 22:46
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@LB, hopefully my preamble made it clear but if not...having received the OAR representative's official response, I still don't consider them to be addressing these issues quickly enough. The OAR representative was able to give some er - further context - over the phone, but this was off the record. CASA and Airservices interests are clearly not aligned at times...I suspect this plays a significant part in the delays.

I merely wanted to praise the OAR representative for making himself available to speak on the phone on his mobile. This seems a rarity these days when dealing with the regulator. OAR's idea of going to meet some non-airline airspace users in the community at AvSafety nights is probably a decent way to approach the implementation, as flawed as the timing may be.

I agree with regard to ADSB-IN/OUT. Whilst it is a wonderful tool, it seems to now being marketed as a cure for an air traffic system that is understaffed all too frequently...

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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 23:13
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Originally Posted by Flying_higher
<snip> [W]hilst Lead Balloon seems to not be a fan of ADS-B, I think youíll find those are views of yesteryear and actually, in 2023, this is the standard globally, reduces cost for all of us (instead of MSSR), and provides benefits such as additional situational awareness through ADS-B (IN). Itís a thumbs up from me!
I'm a 'fan' of ADS-B and have ADS-B IN in my aircraft, just as I'm a 'fan' of GPS and have a TSO'd GPS in my aircraft.

What I'm not a 'fan' of is the current 'marketing' of ADS-B IN as if it's a 'plug and play' system that can be relied on by VFR pilots to provide accurate position and altitude information about, and alerts of conflicts with, all other traffic. That is, in my view, a dangerously misleading message to send.

And it's being used as a distraction from Airservices' and CASA's shortcomings.
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Old 3rd Nov 2023, 10:21
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I take back that you’re not a fan of ADS-B.

I don’t think anyone is saying ADS-B(IN) is a total replacement for alerted see and avoid (yet) but rather that it’s an additional thing to assist with situational awareness. At the moment there are no standards associated with ADS-B(IN) for use like a TCAS, so it actually can’t be a replacement anyway! Regardless it is handy is in helping paint a picture with what you see with the Mk1 eyeball and hear on the radio.
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Old 5th Nov 2023, 05:25
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... and it's also a potential source of distracting and misleading information.

That, and the means of mitigation, should also be made clear by those extolling its virtues.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 04:35
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CASA finally made decision !
https://www.casa.gov.au/improvements...me-effect-2025
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 04:37
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TLDR;Approach control service provided by Airservices by 12 June 2025. Second phase will see the establishment of a new aerodrome control service by Airservices no later than 27 November 2025.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 04:58
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Improvements already made around Ballina include ... provision of a Surveillance Flight Information Service (SFIS) to provide pilots with information about other aircraft in the area ...
Somebody isn't reading NOTAMs.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 06:05
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Ballina Byron Gateway Airport in northern NSW will move to controlled airspace

Australian Aviation are saying

CASA will work with Airservices Australia to reclassify the space around Ballina and establish an approach control service by 12 June 2025, followed by a new digital aerodrome control service no later than 27 November 2025.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 07:21
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They can start issuing NOTAMS now in preparation for there not being a hope in hell that it will be staffed.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 07:33
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You failed to mark the significance of the term "digital aerodrome control". ChatGPT controllers do it for free, with no training.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 08:11
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ChatGPT controllers do it for free, with no training.
​​​​​​​ASA will still **** it up
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 11:32
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So over 18 months away. It will be like the FRMS implementation, the introduction date will just be moved another 18 months.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 22:32
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
So over 18 months away. It will be like the FRMS implementation, the introduction date will just be moved another 18 months.
It's already been moved again in the three weeks since I received an official reply from CASA OAR to my enquiry. As detailed from my post in this thread earlier this month they stated:

In relation to the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome service, the anticipated timeframe has been amended so controlled airspace will be introduced in November 2024 and the controlled aerodrome service, June 2025.
The press release from this week indicates they've now pushed these implementations back twice already:

CTA: November 2023 > November 2024 > June 2025
TWR: June 2024 > June 2025 > November 2025



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Old 21st Nov 2023, 23:48
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What a joke those dates are. If there was an accident it would be up and running the following month. They really are a bunch of knee jerking w@nkers.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 23:58
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What a joke those dates are. If there was an accident it would be up and running the following month. They really are a bunch of knee jerking w@nkers.
No it wouldn't, look at Mangalore. All you would get are dates for implementation moved back and a notification to the NOTAM office to prepare the NOTAMs for lack of service provision.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 00:11
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God forbid there'd be an accident, but the coronial investigation would make for very interesting reading...

Why does it take three years from the date that the Ballina airspace review was released for Airservices to put in a remote tower which will be staffed from Brisbane?
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 01:23
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Because Airservices doesn't want to do it and doesn't have the staff to do it, even if it wanted to, CASA doesn't want to take the regulatory action necessary to address the risks and ATSB ... well ... 'nuf said. Everyone's just watching the roulette wheel and bouncing ball and hoping.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 02:36
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Originally Posted by MagnumPI
God forbid there'd be an accident, but the coronial investigation would make for very interesting reading...

Why does it take three years from the date that the Ballina airspace review was released for Airservices to put in a remote tower which will be staffed from Brisbane?

Remote TWR hey ? In 2 years from now ? Don't know whether to laugh or cry ! For a start there are NO remote TWRS here yet.........we saw last week with Optus what can happen when you put all yr chips in with the telecom providers ! Good luck.

But then again on the other side of the coin as we are seeing with the Nov30 NSW Mil airspace changes at other times they can change everything pretty much at will.

So who would know.

Last edited by 10JQKA; 22nd Nov 2023 at 02:46.
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