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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 1st Nov 2011, 23:45
  #981 (permalink)  
 
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She doesn't look too happy being snapped, does she?
That is actually her happy look !!!
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 23:50
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She is looking for her old job back.

Rats deserting a sinking ship anyone.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 00:15
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Once again it looks like Ben has tried to answer the Joyce cheer leaders who are claiming Singapore Airlines Scoot airline vindicates the Asianisation of Qantas.

Scoot, Singapore Airlines, Qantas, and its Asia ambitions | Plane Talking

Here are some quotes now that I've worked out how to do them

It is not very bright for analysts to push the line that the revelation of a custard colored paint job for the Singapore Airlines low cost longer range brand Scoot is a vindication of the Qantas infatuation with Asia.
That’s a bit like saying ‘Duh, Asia is full of people who are getting richer so we need to be there.’
Simple minded arguments about how everything is cheaper in China and thus we should all shut down international trade and retreat into some sort of jingoistic village economy with zero population growth, and apply punitive protection tariffs to make Australia strong (somehow) is a throw back to the Black Jack McEwen era in sophisticated trade policy (look him up) which was in vogue shortly before Menzies made the candles flicker in the RSL clubs by talking up the need to sell stuff to the Japanese.
The real issue concerning Qantas and its Asia strategies is not the obvious merits of trying to unlock opportunities in a huge and expanding market but its real intention, which is to break organized labor, dump what bean counters see as the excessive costs of excellence in Qantas flight standards, and retreat from a Qantas international business that has been primarily compromised by management incompetence.
If this management of Qantas can’t apply itself to glaring deficiencies in its fleet, network and product decisions what hope does it have in setting itself up in Asia to muscle in on the premium quality intra-Asia turf of Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Asiana, Korean Airlines and others?
There's a lot more in there too. I was pretty disappointed with the rest of the media reports on this, including Business Spectator, which for a while was looking like it has finally worked out what was really going on.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 00:40
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Qantas Board Eviction Notice

The Board and Executive Management
Qantas Airways

Dear Sirs,

We, all Australians, as your landlords, wish to formally advise you that you are hereby evicted from your lease of the Qantas brand and we will be seeking alternative tenants.

The Qantas brand was leased to you, so that you could use it to make a profit for your shareholders. However, in return for that priviledge, you were required to comply with a number of conditions. Those requirements included maintaining the Qantas brand in good condition and order.You were also forbidden to remove the Qantas brand, and its associated national assets, from it current location.

We therefore serve this eviction notice on the following grounds:
  1. We believe that you have not maintained the Qantas brand in good order. The brand has slipped significantly in recognition and emminence, both in the eyes of most of your landlords and in the International arena. Your most recent action of callously closing down the brand has caused irrepairable global damage to the asset. The actions were certainly not in line with the Spirit of Australia.


  2. We believe that you have commenced a program of re-locating the Qantas assets. The affected assets include infrastructure such as workshops, employment opportunities in flight crew, cabin crew and engineering, supply opportunities for Australian industry ... and most significantly, the intellectual property that was encapsulated in the brand's engineering capabilities. The sum result of this re-location exercise has been a deterioration in skill and operational performance ... which has, in turn, accelerated the downturn in the value of the Qantas brand.

As landlords, our responsibility is to maintain our asset. As you are obviously about to expand your re-location exercise, with the potential for more damage to the asset, we have no other option than to terminate your lease.

Yours faithfully

All Australians
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 00:57
  #985 (permalink)  
 
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Things are starting to change, some very senior journo's are starting to smell a rat (excuse the pun) and a story, a very big story, they are starting to realise that something is rotten in QF, and are probably not easily bought off with a first class ticket, they are like rats up a drain pipe when they are on to something. Time to buy the popcorn lads and girls and settle into your favourite chair, and watch the fun. This is going to be huge. My source, a very senior journo, who is in the CBR press gallery, and is VERY curious. Meanwhile keep those emails going to Richo. Richo might have just beaten them to it.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:03
  #986 (permalink)  
 
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As a Proud Qantas employee for more than 20 years, I am going to enforce my own democratic protest without instruction from my Union.

I am imposing an Overtime Lockout on myself until I feel a time I need to remove it.

And just to rub the salt in, I didn't have to ring anyone.

As this is my ONLY option, I wish to apologize to my wife for spending more time with her than usual.

Please feel free to join me.

Save Our Qantas
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:16
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There is history of this sort of lockout and the ensuing capitulation of the unions

Robe River 1986 Lockout 10 weeks

The process started in 1986 at Robe River where productivity had been falling, and the owners found they were paying an increasing proportion of its workforce to be nothing more than full time union agitators. Initiating the reform took great courage on the part of the firm's management, especially its CEO Charles Copeman. In addition to desperate and vicious union attempts to maintain themselves as the virtual management of the facility, the local supervisory staff had little stomach to fight, and rival firms (including BHP) did not want the system threatened. Copeman also confronted intense denigration from ALP Governments in both Western Australia and Canberra.
In addition Robe River faced the hostility of an Industrial Relations Commission guarding the myth that it was the arbitrator of workforce arrangements even where it simply endorsed lavish conditions the unions had extracted. The Robe River dispute did much to undermine the old industrial relations framework and laid the groundwork for the vast improvements in industrial relations seen in Australia over the past decade. From the dispute, which lasted over a year, Robe achieved a doubling of labour productivity. CRA followed suit in its own Pilbara mines and achieved similar gains. The Pilbara, once notorious for massive overmanning and union demarcation disputes, has, until the recent dispute, become an island of industrial peace and prosperity.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:37
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US Airlines have lost the plot, next thing they'll do all maintenance of US based aircraft within the US

US Airways said yesterday it hired 400 workers at call centres in North Carolina, Arizona and Nevada as part of a union agreement to bring back work previously done outside of the United States.

The airline said the new jobs meet a requirement under its agreement with the Airline Customer Service Employee Association - CWA and IBT to handle general reservations sales calls originating in the United States in US call centers.

Call centres in Winston-Salem, North Carolina; Phoenix; and Reno, Nevada, are getting new workers. US Airways also has a call centre in Liverpool, England, which handles calls from consumers in international locations.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:41
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The management want the aircraft maintained under the supervision of their own staff and the US regulator, because the work being done was so shoddy. They almost want the unions to win the mx side of the argument.

Much like the fallout from staples being pinned through the Emergency Exit Lighting of QF Aircraft in offshore maintenance.

DO NOT forget the engineers in their plight to keep OUR (ie: Australian pasengers or those we would like to trade with), passengers safe over large expanses of ocean, many thousands of miles from bean counters who clearly do not care.

Union solidarity! One voice to speak ONLY through elected leadership. SAFETY is the biggest issue. NOBODY can duplicate the Australian traditions of hard work, tenacity, leadership, confidence, pride and sophistication with dealing with increasingly complex aircraft when automation and safety systems FAIL!!

DO NOT TRUST imitators of your refined product that can NEVER be duplicated!!

YOU ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY OF YOUR EFFORTS AND EVEN MORE!!

Last edited by Kangaroo Court; 2nd Nov 2011 at 01:53.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:52
  #990 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like Alan is off to tea and biccies session with a few senators.....

Joyce to face grilling on grounding from Senate
Matt O'sullivan
November 2, 2011
THE chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, will face his first grilling at the hands of federal politicians since his shock decision to ground the airline when he turns up in Canberra for a Senate inquiry on Friday.

The airline went into damage control yesterday as it attempted to patch up relations with the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, and the Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese.

As Ms Gillard renewed her attacks on Qantas, its government relations boss, Olivia Wirth, made a flying visit to Canberra in an effort to repair a relationship which insiders now describe as toxic. ''The government is furious from the top to the very bottom,'' an insider said.

Advertisement: Story continues below
Mr Joyce's appearance at the Senate inquiry into a bill proposed by independent senator Nick Xenophon and Greens leader Bob Brown aimed at reining in Qantas's aggressive overseas expansion plans has taken on extra significance since the airline's unprecedented grounding of its fleet at the weekend.

The hearing, led by Labor senator Glenn Sterle, is likely to question Mr Joyce in detail about whether his decision to ground the airline was made before Saturday.

It will be Mr Joyce's first visit to Canberra since the grounding. Although there is no support in government or opposition ranks for the legislation, Mr Joyce can expect a

frosty reception in Canberra after giving government ministers just three hours' notice on Saturday of the grounding.

Despite the bitter relations with the government, investors continued to interpret Fair Work Australia's decision to terminate a lockout and industrial action as a victory for Qantas. Shares in the airline, which resumed full services yesterday, defied a weak market to close up 1.75˘ at $1.63.

Merrill Lynch estimates Qantas will have to spend $10 million on its ''recovery phase'', which is likely to include fare reductions, more flexible tickets and bonus loyalty points to win back customers. That is on top of at least $110 million in costs from the grounding and industrial action.

Yesterday, officials from Qantas and the Australian and International Pilots Association had their first day of negotiations since the workplace umpire terminated industrial action and the airline's lockout early on Monday morning.

The pilots' union said it would be sticking to its demands for job-security clauses to be included in a new contract, despite it being unpalatable for Qantas. The aircraft engineers' union is to begin negotiations with Qantas on Monday.



Read more: Joyce to face grilling on grounding from Senate
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 01:56
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Good Luck Mr Joyce!! You're gonna need it!!!


You've pissed off every businessman, honey mooner, tourist and medical provider that requires your services in the country.

IDIOT!!!!
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 02:00
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As a Proud Qantas employee for more than 20 years, I am going to enforce my own democratic protest without instruction from my Union.
I am imposing an Overtime Lockout on myself until I feel a time I need to remove it.
And just to rub the salt in, I didn't have to ring anyone.
As this is my ONLY option, I wish to apologize to my wife for spending more time with her than usual.
Please feel free to join me.
Save Our Qantas
Count me in ! I hereby formally give notice to myself, under my own instructions, to do the following:
  • I hereby authorize myself to desist immediately undertaking and performing any overtime.
  • I hereby authorize myself to not extend my rostered hours, duty hours, any hours above what is employee policy. Should this mean an aircraft is grounded overnight and considerable costs incurred against the company, and significant disruptions casued to service and passengers then I must accept that it is actually not my fault in the first place.
  • I hereby authorize myself to not 'go that extra mile' when fatigued or sick and still go to work. I agree with myself to take my sick leave, as per workplace agreement, to ensure my health is maintained to a safe level.
  • I hereby authorize myself to not go above and beyond my employement conditions. I will not offer any additional or extra public service than required, I will not actively seek solutions to problems that could save the company money if it is not written in my award.
  • I hereby authorize myself to no longer defend the actions of managements decision making strategies.
  • I hereby authorize myself to seek the benefit of myself first before the companies needs,in line with my own personal moral compass.
I can confirm that I have undertaken these actions while not being coerced or by any other entity, union, or universal factor.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 02:04
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Originally Posted by T28D
The process started in 1986 at Robe River where productivity had been falling, and the owners found they were paying an increasing proportion of its workforce to be nothing more than full time union agitators
You are right, it is about labour productivity. The fundamental difference is this "productivity issue" is entirely due to managements own actions.

The transfer of flying to subsidiaries without permitting the transfer of the labour, despite a Memorandum Of Understanding (MOU) between the parties that pilots could transfer on the conditions of the subsidiary. Despite the MOU, the vast majority pilots were denied the right to transfer, and instead were assigned large amounts of accrued annual leave (which in many cases they were not permitted to take in the period 1998~2004, particularly on the 767) and Long Service Leave.

The certified agreement on the longhaul aircraft permits the full 900 stick hours to utilized, and in many cases crew were doing their annual max on the 744. Domestically it is a bit more difficult, simply because the award was never designed to be used for short sector flying. AIPA negotiated a separate agreement to operate Australian Airlines, which I am lead to believe management had no issue with efficiency. By all accounts everyone was satisfied with this arrangement. The pilots have been willing to negotiate as necessary - They negotiated reduced flying for crew to help the company. This favour was repaid by handing the savings directly to Geoff Dixon to boost his payout because of a tax law change.

The issue is one of using the longhaul pilots as the bunnies to help with the management agenda of destroying the international operation. Management stuffed up monumentally with it fleet choices & networks. Rather than growing their slice while the whole pie got bigger, they did nothing and so Qantas's slice shrunk relative to other operators. Now they claim its the fault of the pilots which make up 4% of the costs. Do you really believe that?

Now they want to move to Asia, just adding another few degree's of difficulty. This whole dispute is to mask & deflect from managements poor performance.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 02:40
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@peuce, who said: "..As landlords, our responsibility is to maintain our asset. As you are obviously about to expand your re-location exercise, with the potential for more damage to the asset, we have no other option than to terminate your lease.

Yours faithfully

All Australians"


What arrogance. A quick poll of 5 people here in our office shows that 5 out of 5 think you are talking out of your anal orifice. You certainly don't speak on our behalf.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 03:06
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@peuce, who said: "..As landlords, our responsibility is to maintain our asset. As you are obviously about to expand your re-location exercise, with the potential for more damage to the asset, we have no other option than to terminate your lease.

Yours faithfully

All Australians"

What arrogance. A quick poll of 5 people here in our office shows that 5 out of 5 think you are talking out of your anal orifice. You certainly don't speak on our behalf.
David1300,

we have discussed issues before and very much agree to disagree. There are those, the minority, who unfortunately hold the majority of shares in all facets of the investment world that would like nothing more than to shut down a company because it is in difficulty, but pushed over the edge by management that decided to have a Saturday afternoon hissy fit and cost not only its own company money, but every other business in the country and the world relying on QF's business.

This one action alone of shutting down an airline without notice, far outweighs any pay increases that were being sought by the three combined unions over the period of their respective agreements. As for job security, management have just given themselves an uppercut and will hopefully be ejected from the board at 40,000ft.

If all the energy of the management in fighting its workforce was put to producing a better relationship with them and finding ways to get better productivity out of the workforce, we wouldn't have the mess we have. If the money spent by management fighting its workforce was put to paying them an increase of 3%-5%, people would continue to work, knowing they will have a job in a few years time. When uncertainty and undue stress is placed on a company's workforce and then threatened with a lockout with no pay, that does not bode well with the staff.

The only people to gain job security from QF management's poor decision last Saturday will be the teams of lawyers and barristers barracking for each of their teams and arguing their cases, meanwhile, passengers have deserted the airline, the airline will continue bleed even further and job losses will be more imminent than ever. And for what?

Apart from the actual $ losses to QANTAS due this dispute, their reputation I believe is not beyond repair, but far from it and will take many years to recover, but in the absence of the current board of QANTAS.

I don't believe that the 5 people in your office are an overwhelming majority of the country's opinion on the matter, and it is obviously 5 like-minded people's opinion in one office.

I also am not speaking on your behalf.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 03:38
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Things are starting to change, some very senior journo's are starting to smell a rat (excuse the pun) and a story, a very big story, they are starting to realise that something is rotten in QF, and are probably not easily bought off with a first class ticket,
Oh yes, That's for sure.........the press smell a rat alright and so do the public.... Gillard will be forced to side with the customers er, sorry voters.... AJ LC have bitten off far more than they can chew.....

So much happened last weekend, there is a lot to digest... have a look at this video again, it reflects the mood of the people, otherwise Fairfax wouldn't run with it... the momentum is running against LC... and his board mates... no doubt about it now, sadly the public will vote against them with their feet because they see no loyalty to Australia from these board members for supporting AJ and his heavy handed IR dealings.

I will say it again, the only way this can be resolved is to remove AJ from his post. The damage is done, the tactics are a PR disaster for brand Qantas.



.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 03:43
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David 1300,

You are correct, I don't speak for everyone and I just put forward my position ... to make it public. I would love to see your position in black and white.

In the end, it will be up to Australians, as a whole, to decide whether to allow the current Qantas direction to continue ... or not.

If the majority of Australians are happy with the current Qantas direction, then they must also be happy with the consequences .... you can't have both.

But, for the life of me, I can't understand how a majority of Australians would be happy with a very limited number of shareholders lining their pockets ... at the expense of the draining of national expertise, employment opportunities, infrastructure, skills, capability and assets.

Can you please explain to me ... what is in it for 99% of Australians?
What am I missing?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 03:59
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Why Immediate?

Despite raising the question in a number of forums and emails, I am yet to get a reasonable answer as to why it was necessary to immediately ground the entire airline. (Other than a perceived threat to the safety and wellbeing of those apparently otherwise respected employees. )

Does Alan Joyce honestly believe that he could not have achieved the same FWA result, in virtually the same time-frame, if he had announced the grounding and lockout were to occur at some point in the future; in 72 hours or in a week?

It only took 12 hours or so for FWA to convene and around 36 hours to reach a result, but in that time the damage to the brand was done.

Why do it, knowing that the impact on the brand would be, at best, harmful?

(I know this has been discussed at length in a roundabout fashion but I still can't get a logical answer. )
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 04:06
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C441,

Really?
  1. Impact
  2. Impact
  3. Impact

Officially?
Because it wasn't safe to operate the airline with stressed staff

Unofficially?
To prevent sabotage by Staff
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 04:12
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I hereby authorize myself to not 'go that extra mile'
That's sad , as that's what makes Qantas great , staff that actually give a rats, but understandable.

I guess by demoralising staff they get what they want , more excuses to shut you down.

Please don't have an accident in the next few months due to maintenance or pilot error , then the Qantas brand will really be finally and totally trashed.




.

Last edited by aseanaero; 2nd Nov 2011 at 04:28.
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