Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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Looking forward to the Engagement Survey results that were going to be released after a senior management and board review with the survey consultants (02May2011)
I'll bet we won't see them at all or at least until post PIA.
I'll bet we won't see them at all or at least until post PIA.
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Just wondering what the grand total for all the fines Qantas have copped due to the price fixing scandal? I'm sure that scandal has done a far bit of damage to our brand. They find money to pay the fines, but not enough money to give their workers a decent payrise & SOME job security.F%#king money hungry a#%^holes.
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G'day Fed Sec and All loyal members out there!
Why don't we put the company on notice that each time they tell a blatant lie to the media there will be a stop work meeting due to the lie.We will then explain to the press why we have c/o this pia and that the company were told of the consequences of lying (my 3yo already knows there is a consequence if she lies!). We already have 2 good reasons, ie the average wage is $150k and also our wage claim is 36% over 3 years. Also the article about no productivity gains is absurb, how about the iasa issue and we happily/enthusiastically helped out which apperently is about 2-3 million annually saved
Why don't we put the company on notice that each time they tell a blatant lie to the media there will be a stop work meeting due to the lie.We will then explain to the press why we have c/o this pia and that the company were told of the consequences of lying (my 3yo already knows there is a consequence if she lies!). We already have 2 good reasons, ie the average wage is $150k and also our wage claim is 36% over 3 years. Also the article about no productivity gains is absurb, how about the iasa issue and we happily/enthusiastically helped out which apperently is about 2-3 million annually saved
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Where's Ben Sandilands? What's his take on the planned action?
Here 'tis..............
Qantas, job security and a real discussion
May 10, 2011 – 6:51 pm, by Ben Sandilands
There are several problems for the public, and the media, in the reporting of the Qantas industrial issues that see the engineers taking protected industrial action this Friday and the pilot union possibly opting to do the same but later.
One problem is that Qantas has in the main responded to specific union claims with generalisations, meaning it is not arguing the issues that are the trigger for industrial action, and the other is that for the most part the media reports the union arguments in brief and in passing.
The result is that the public isn’t particularly well informed as to how either management or labor see the issues.
The reason Plane Talking carries detailed reports about the union side is that no-one else does, and the reason it hasn’t so far published detailed, line by line rebuttals or commentaries from Qantas is that there haven’t been any, as yet.
This summary of the situation being circulated among members of the engineering union, the ALAEA typifies the situation.
The Age Old Battle of Capital and Labour in the Qantas Licensed Engineers Strike Action
In what is shaping up as watershed battle for Qantas the age old fundamental argument of where a company should spend its capital is at the forefront of the issues.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) has given notice to Qantas its members intend to take industrial action to promote and further their claims in enterprise bargaining. Whilst the ALAEA’s wages claim is within the Qantas 3% parameters, the major sticking point is the ALAEA’s claim for security of employment for Qantas engineering employees.
In effect this claim is for Qantas to spend a relatively small amount of its capital to provide engineering and maintenance facilities, training and tooling to enable Qantas to perform the full maintenance of its new aircraft fleet in Australia which has a direct effect on employment opportunities for current and future Qantas engineering employees. The ALAEA estimates this amount to be less than $20 million for an investment that will sure up a major high technology capability providing benefits in aircraft safety, employment, spin offs to local companies and Government taxation revenue for the next 15 to 20 years.
Qantas currently performs the majority of its old fleet, the Boeing B747s, 767 and 737s, and Airbus A330 maintenance in Australia. However the B747 fleet is gradually being replaced by the Airbus A380 and the new Boeing 787 is intended to replace the B767 fleet. Qantas at present is not intending to do the A380 and B787 maintenance in Australia and the ALAEAs enterprise bargaining claim would have that work done in Australia.
The ask by the ALAEA is not a big one in dollar terms as Qantas already has a state of the art ($80M) Airbus heavy maintenance hangar in Brisbane and one in Sydney capable of accommodating an A380. The Brisbane hangar currently does B767 and A330 work and if the A380 work went into Brisbane the older B767s maintenance could be moved to Avalon Victoria which has done B767 heavy maintenance previously and has that capability. This would mean the Brisbane facility would become a dedicated Airbus facility.
The B737 fleet is maintained at Qantas Tullamarine Victoria with some overflow going to Avalon and occasionally overseas. The Avalon facility currently performs B747 maintenance and some B737 overflow maintenance and has a B767 capability. The issue of accommodating the B787s is somewhat more uncertain but has not arisen yet due to the uncertainty of the delivery of the aircraft. In summary Qantas is capable of satisfying the ALAEA job security claim, it just doesn’t want to make the investment in Australia.
If the ALAEA was successful in getting Qantas to agree to its job security claim there would be ongoing benefits to the economies and revenue for Queensland, NSW, Victorian governments as well as the Federal Government as effectively the majority of Qantas maintenance expenditure would occur within Australia.
That is a succinct argument. But where is the precise Qantas response, at this stage?
It is the lack of engagement by Qantas with the specifics of the pilot and engineering union claims that drives much of their job security concerns, which to summarise is that it doesn’t matter what they offer management it just wants them to go away and die, or not get in the way of a master strategy to shift much of the activity and assets of the Qantas group overseas.
If this is the strategy, and there is a fair bit of evidence that it is just in terms of things said by management, then government, and the public, might reasonably expect a good argument from Qantas as to why it can no longer make enough money in Australia, and some sort of reassurance that by calling Shanghai, Singapore, Auckland and Malaysia home on an expanded scale everything will be better than before.
If this is the strategy will it really substantially solve what may be other deep seated problems in Qantas, or resolve questions as to whether the group is experiencing troubled times because of how it runs its business in this country instead of unduly attaching blame to the fact that it is a predominantly Australian enterprise.
Precise Qantas Response
Ben Sandilands-that is an excellent question,do you think he will get a precise answer??
WE now have the executive manager of engineering giving false information about the salary range of LAME's,what a pity he did'nt bring that subject up when he was standing in front of us trying to tell us he was our friend and wanted to put the past behind us.1 hopes he is not expecting a sausage sizzle to solve anything & if it did make any impact ,be assured now that the 1 or 2 steps that might have been taken in the forward direction have now gone backwards 10 fold in 10seconds.
WE now have the executive manager of engineering giving false information about the salary range of LAME's,what a pity he did'nt bring that subject up when he was standing in front of us trying to tell us he was our friend and wanted to put the past behind us.1 hopes he is not expecting a sausage sizzle to solve anything & if it did make any impact ,be assured now that the 1 or 2 steps that might have been taken in the forward direction have now gone backwards 10 fold in 10seconds.
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Extract from article in today's Australian by Steve Creedy.
Meanwhile, Qantas is expected to move some Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 line maintenance offshore to Los Angeles and contract out other work to Melbourne-based John Holland Aviation Services if the dispute intensifies.
Mr Purvinas said the union was aware of the plans but Qantas "was having a lend of itself" if it thought it could cover the work normally done by licensed engineers.
Meanwhile, Qantas is expected to move some Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 line maintenance offshore to Los Angeles and contract out other work to Melbourne-based John Holland Aviation Services if the dispute intensifies.
Mr Purvinas said the union was aware of the plans but Qantas "was having a lend of itself" if it thought it could cover the work normally done by licensed engineers.
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No confidence
I have given up on QF management they are a disgrace, from the lower levels full of bullies and liars. We see a GM who was never around on Saturday's choosing to play cricket instead of working with his peers and do his share. The upper levels have now been filled with union bashers with CV's of failed airlines. The lower levels seems to be populated with cigar smokers.
Ben Sandilands writes another great article on the decision that will likely be the one of last few nails in the coffin of the iconic airline.
Plane Talking
We see the writing on the wall as AJ and his team with all the rhetoric will deliver the final blows to see the majority of our industry move off-shore. The expansion of Jetstar Asia, the demise of a lucrative advantage of the Pacific and Kangaroo routes, old and worn out 747s, lies and more lies, A330 hyundai's of the sky, a bad choice of IFE, safety incident after safety incident, the closing of SYD HM resulting in escalating engine incidents, lies and more lies, a $150mil PAI to save $5mil in wages, a campaign of bullying and disregard of employees, court cases for similar actions on engineers, more recent lies to the media (again) about wages, the erosion of pilot standards, cheap under skilled alternatives.....I could go on, we all could add to this list.
We would just want one CEO, one person one board member with an ethical backbone to explain why why why why go down this path in the country of opportunities. Immigrants feeling a country have a number one choice; that is Australia and these inept managers continue to move wage costs and the aircraft maintenance industry off-shore, they have the audacity to put a Wallabies promotion on a Qantas 737 jet, flown by pilots and cabin crew in Qantas uniforms but agrue they are not Qantas employees nor the Aircraft is Qantas all in an exercise not to give an aussie pilot a job.
It has got to a point now where I don't dislike the QF management I actually feel sorry for these knuckleheads. I pondered what the next wave of management would be like after the GD era but this team is embarassing. Two-faced dunderheads.
I have no confidence in any QF manager and doubt we can pull out of this dive. They can have their Jetstar model, they can their Jet Connect model, they can have their off-shore MRO's, they can have the RR Gold Card, I've had a gutful. ETD just bought forward.
Borghetti, it's all yours.
Ben Sandilands writes another great article on the decision that will likely be the one of last few nails in the coffin of the iconic airline.
Plane Talking
We see the writing on the wall as AJ and his team with all the rhetoric will deliver the final blows to see the majority of our industry move off-shore. The expansion of Jetstar Asia, the demise of a lucrative advantage of the Pacific and Kangaroo routes, old and worn out 747s, lies and more lies, A330 hyundai's of the sky, a bad choice of IFE, safety incident after safety incident, the closing of SYD HM resulting in escalating engine incidents, lies and more lies, a $150mil PAI to save $5mil in wages, a campaign of bullying and disregard of employees, court cases for similar actions on engineers, more recent lies to the media (again) about wages, the erosion of pilot standards, cheap under skilled alternatives.....I could go on, we all could add to this list.
We would just want one CEO, one person one board member with an ethical backbone to explain why why why why go down this path in the country of opportunities. Immigrants feeling a country have a number one choice; that is Australia and these inept managers continue to move wage costs and the aircraft maintenance industry off-shore, they have the audacity to put a Wallabies promotion on a Qantas 737 jet, flown by pilots and cabin crew in Qantas uniforms but agrue they are not Qantas employees nor the Aircraft is Qantas all in an exercise not to give an aussie pilot a job.
It has got to a point now where I don't dislike the QF management I actually feel sorry for these knuckleheads. I pondered what the next wave of management would be like after the GD era but this team is embarassing. Two-faced dunderheads.
I have no confidence in any QF manager and doubt we can pull out of this dive. They can have their Jetstar model, they can their Jet Connect model, they can have their off-shore MRO's, they can have the RR Gold Card, I've had a gutful. ETD just bought forward.
Borghetti, it's all yours.
I think Its quite clear what QF is doing - attempting to claim its an Australian Airline, while staffing its aircraft with cheap foreigners based overseas.
All I can say is that the Board is taking a suicidally risky brand strategy.
I would imagine that VB and other airlines are already planning advertising campaigns that have the capacity to devastate the Qantas brand by calling into question its Australian - ness..
The theme are these:
Who is driving your aircraft? When you fly Virgin Australia you can be sure your pilot is a committed Australian professional that we have hired for life, not just a contractor.
Who is maintaining your aircraft? All Virgin aircraft are maintained in Australia by Australians.
Who is crewing your aircraft?.....
Don't let the painted on Australian flag fool you, there is only ONE Australian Airline.
Subsidiary ads could focus on each of those aspects - theme called "Home grown".
For example run an ad with a series of cameos of a young dusty kid flying a Cessna in the outback, then moving to a bigger aircraft, maybe RFDS, then in a VB training environment and finally in the LHS of a VB aircraft.
Mechanics starts with a cameo with a little kid messing with the engine of a Holden.......ending up with a CFm56.... you know the drill.
If something like that took off, then the Qantas brand is toast.
Hey this is advertising, don't confuse me with facts.
All I can say is that the Board is taking a suicidally risky brand strategy.
I would imagine that VB and other airlines are already planning advertising campaigns that have the capacity to devastate the Qantas brand by calling into question its Australian - ness..
The theme are these:
Who is driving your aircraft? When you fly Virgin Australia you can be sure your pilot is a committed Australian professional that we have hired for life, not just a contractor.
Who is maintaining your aircraft? All Virgin aircraft are maintained in Australia by Australians.
Who is crewing your aircraft?.....
Don't let the painted on Australian flag fool you, there is only ONE Australian Airline.
Subsidiary ads could focus on each of those aspects - theme called "Home grown".
For example run an ad with a series of cameos of a young dusty kid flying a Cessna in the outback, then moving to a bigger aircraft, maybe RFDS, then in a VB training environment and finally in the LHS of a VB aircraft.
Mechanics starts with a cameo with a little kid messing with the engine of a Holden.......ending up with a CFm56.... you know the drill.
If something like that took off, then the Qantas brand is toast.
Hey this is advertising, don't confuse me with facts.
What a load of crap Sunfish!
Playing the Devil's advocate here - QANTAS is trying to compete with the likes of V Australia, whose maintenance base is in LAX, with SIAECUSA - look them up...
In actual fact, QANTAS could potentially have their B744's and A380's main Line Maintenance base in LAX tomorrow, if they choosed to use SIAECUSA, as that company is already an FAA approved repair station for those types. Remember guys, as far as CASA is concerned, VH registered aircraft can be maintained by any approved Contracting State. Doesn't have to be in Australia.
Playing the Devil's advocate here - QANTAS is trying to compete with the likes of V Australia, whose maintenance base is in LAX, with SIAECUSA - look them up...
In actual fact, QANTAS could potentially have their B744's and A380's main Line Maintenance base in LAX tomorrow, if they choosed to use SIAECUSA, as that company is already an FAA approved repair station for those types. Remember guys, as far as CASA is concerned, VH registered aircraft can be maintained by any approved Contracting State. Doesn't have to be in Australia.
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Qantas
How about the Qld regional group, this was the starting point.
A very profitable arm in the big picture, doing what Qantas started out doing.
That is providing grass routes service to the outback communities.
Staff dared to ask for more money. The manpower had not been increased significantly for nearly 10 years although aircraft numbers had increased by 23 airframes. Only 8 retired in that time.
The engineers concerned had to put up with a complete lack of engineering management skills. Bring in a new aircraft and progressively build up equipment over 2 to 3 years after they get here. Case in point engine stands to allow maintenance on the engines 2 1/2 years after arrival we got dedicated stands for the Q400.
They are now spending $18K per month on security guards in H2. That is $216 K per year 3 times actual pay rise for all engineers. Not too mention the outsourced maintenance at Hawkers Cairns, Worland Townsville, Contractors in Melbourne ( also own staff), contractors Adelaide, contractors Cairns for day to day.
Will we ever be the same - I don't think so. It will take an exceptional manager to bring back the good faith shown in the past. Will Q ever employ somebody of this caliber to sort the problems probably not. Would they actually find somebody in the current crop of managers who actually look further than whats going into the wallet.
Do we really need to look further than my 3-4 year contract - no.
A very profitable arm in the big picture, doing what Qantas started out doing.
That is providing grass routes service to the outback communities.
Staff dared to ask for more money. The manpower had not been increased significantly for nearly 10 years although aircraft numbers had increased by 23 airframes. Only 8 retired in that time.
The engineers concerned had to put up with a complete lack of engineering management skills. Bring in a new aircraft and progressively build up equipment over 2 to 3 years after they get here. Case in point engine stands to allow maintenance on the engines 2 1/2 years after arrival we got dedicated stands for the Q400.
They are now spending $18K per month on security guards in H2. That is $216 K per year 3 times actual pay rise for all engineers. Not too mention the outsourced maintenance at Hawkers Cairns, Worland Townsville, Contractors in Melbourne ( also own staff), contractors Adelaide, contractors Cairns for day to day.
Will we ever be the same - I don't think so. It will take an exceptional manager to bring back the good faith shown in the past. Will Q ever employ somebody of this caliber to sort the problems probably not. Would they actually find somebody in the current crop of managers who actually look further than whats going into the wallet.
Do we really need to look further than my 3-4 year contract - no.
Qantas reinstates cancelled flights
Updated 14 minutes ago
Qantas announced it was cancelling 31 flights because of the impending strike. (AAP: Dean Lewins, file photo)
Qantas says all flights will be reinstated after the aircraft engineers union cancelled its industrial action planned for tomorrow morning.
Earlier, Qantas announced it was cancelling 31 flights because of the impending strike. A further 46 flights were set to be delayed.
About 1,600 aircraft engineers had planned to walk off the job for an hour from 8am (local time) tomorrow over pay and conditions.
The move, which would have extended over several hours nationally, was due to affect 2,500 passengers.
No agreement was reached between the parties during talks in Fair Work Australia yesterday, and further industrial action was planned for Monday and Tuesday.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers federal secretary Steve Purvinas has confirmed tomorrow's strike has been called off.
Earlier, he said there was no reason why the strike would not go ahead.
Qantas has accused maintenance engineers of not negotiating in good faith over job security and conditions and says it is disappointed at the disruptions caused
More likely a shot across the corporate bows.
Updated 14 minutes ago
Qantas announced it was cancelling 31 flights because of the impending strike. (AAP: Dean Lewins, file photo)Qantas says all flights will be reinstated after the aircraft engineers union cancelled its industrial action planned for tomorrow morning.
Earlier, Qantas announced it was cancelling 31 flights because of the impending strike. A further 46 flights were set to be delayed.
About 1,600 aircraft engineers had planned to walk off the job for an hour from 8am (local time) tomorrow over pay and conditions.
The move, which would have extended over several hours nationally, was due to affect 2,500 passengers.
No agreement was reached between the parties during talks in Fair Work Australia yesterday, and further industrial action was planned for Monday and Tuesday.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers federal secretary Steve Purvinas has confirmed tomorrow's strike has been called off.
Earlier, he said there was no reason why the strike would not go ahead.
Qantas has accused maintenance engineers of not negotiating in good faith over job security and conditions and says it is disappointed at the disruptions caused
More likely a shot across the corporate bows.