Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
Join Date: Jul 2008
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airsupport
Cant win them all. Getting the ALAEA to force qantas to spend big bucks on the 380 facility was a noble but very tough one to win.
agreement
Many media reports this morning that Qantas have announced an agreement has been reached.
There are always going to be negative comments about what we got & what we maybe should have got but when you consider the corner we were backed into & what the outcome could have been i would think there are not too many members who can really complain.
I think it is time to give credit where it is due & say to our hard working executive we appreciate the efforts you all have gone to in horrendous circumstances particularly over the past couple of months.
Keep up the good work!
There are always going to be negative comments about what we got & what we maybe should have got but when you consider the corner we were backed into & what the outcome could have been i would think there are not too many members who can really complain.
I think it is time to give credit where it is due & say to our hard working executive we appreciate the efforts you all have gone to in horrendous circumstances particularly over the past couple of months.
Keep up the good work!
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I, apparently mistakenly, thought the main thing was keeping as much work and as many Engineering jobs as possible IN Australia, not so much for you current LAMEs now, and certainly not for retired LAMEs like me, but for the future of LAMEs in Australia. 
Just saw the ABC, so the current LAMEs will get a 3% pay rise, but the Industry IN Australia is doomed, great.
Lets hope the Pilots and the TWU can do better.
Just saw the ABC, so the current LAMEs will get a 3% pay rise, but the Industry IN Australia is doomed, great.
Lets hope the Pilots and the TWU can do better.
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What would you have the ALAEA do airsupport - things have been stacked against us by the government and Qantas. Pretty good result in the scheme of things. Qantas will always continue to snub their nose at common sense, may as well take the money and roll with it.
Thanks to all the negotiating team - enjoy your Christmas break
Thanks to all the negotiating team - enjoy your Christmas break
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Firstly, well done to the ALAEA team.
SP, well spoken in front of the media, good one.
Apart from QF pursuing Maint On Demand regardless of Clause 11, we (QF) will NOT see the 787. All those planes go to J*.
Last weeks strategy announcement by QF to investors made it very clear where and when the fleets will be deployed.
But, one fight at a time.
SP, well spoken in front of the media, good one.
Apart from QF pursuing Maint On Demand regardless of Clause 11, we (QF) will NOT see the 787. All those planes go to J*.
Last weeks strategy announcement by QF to investors made it very clear where and when the fleets will be deployed.
But, one fight at a time.
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Okay, I can only go by what is posted here and I see/hear on the news, and it appeared that, as I have sadly seen many times before in my 40 years as an LAME, that many important things were dumped just to get a pay rise. 
I now know that this is NOT the case, and although I still think more should be done to keep work from going off shore, many other things were gained/retained.
Merry Christmas to SP and the Team, and ALL of you here on PPRuNe.
I now know that this is NOT the case, and although I still think more should be done to keep work from going off shore, many other things were gained/retained.
Merry Christmas to SP and the Team, and ALL of you here on PPRuNe.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Airsupport, thanks for your support during this dispute.
Ultimately there are limits on what we can do industrially.
Keeping a viable industry in Australia is mostly a political decision.
I have seen many millions of dollars thrown at car companies over the years. That ,after being tariff protected for many more.
Aviation , despite its strategic importance to a large and isolated nation gets SFA help.
I am a firm believer in getting good people into the senate to represent the industry. We cant rely on a knife edge govt and hostile senate for support. If any major party gets both the reps and senate we're stuffed.
Labor failed at the last hurdle and interests within the party did us over for their own power base.Of that I am certain.
Ultimately there are limits on what we can do industrially.
Keeping a viable industry in Australia is mostly a political decision.
I have seen many millions of dollars thrown at car companies over the years. That ,after being tariff protected for many more.
Aviation , despite its strategic importance to a large and isolated nation gets SFA help.
I am a firm believer in getting good people into the senate to represent the industry. We cant rely on a knife edge govt and hostile senate for support. If any major party gets both the reps and senate we're stuffed.
Labor failed at the last hurdle and interests within the party did us over for their own power base.Of that I am certain.
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Firstly, to all the guys in the ALAEA Executive team, Well Done! It wasn't an easy road to travel, but we got what can be considered the best deal under the circumstances we were placed. That is between the QF board and the government.
As for maintaining jobs in Australia, this was never going to happen. No matter our demands and cases put forward, it is a corporate mind set and government willingness to allow jobs to leave our shores and grow other economies while ours, as good as it is at the moment, will eventually become like those we are sending our jobs to. It is very unfortunate that those at the top have no faith in, or see no future in employment in this country. Employment is treated like a liability and not an asset. I'm not just talking about QANTAS employees either.
Enjoy that the dispute is now over and we now know the outcome and get our backpay and future grade jumps. It is now time to reflect on the year that was, enjoy the upcoming Christmas time with your families and friends and keep safe and well for the New Year.
As for maintaining jobs in Australia, this was never going to happen. No matter our demands and cases put forward, it is a corporate mind set and government willingness to allow jobs to leave our shores and grow other economies while ours, as good as it is at the moment, will eventually become like those we are sending our jobs to. It is very unfortunate that those at the top have no faith in, or see no future in employment in this country. Employment is treated like a liability and not an asset. I'm not just talking about QANTAS employees either.
Enjoy that the dispute is now over and we now know the outcome and get our backpay and future grade jumps. It is now time to reflect on the year that was, enjoy the upcoming Christmas time with your families and friends and keep safe and well for the New Year.
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Perhaps the little fella was on an incentive bonus to close the deal before Xmas day????
A Merry Xmas to be sure!
Agreement or not, some things will not change, and that is current management are by far the worst in this airlines history, and the actions taken by them with the 'lock out' will remain a smudge on the QF brand along with every other brand damaging act they have undertaken in recent years.
To QF staff have a very Merry Xmas and continue your part in keeping the air safe.
To QF Management - A healthy Xmas middle finger salute !
A Merry Xmas to be sure!
Agreement or not, some things will not change, and that is current management are by far the worst in this airlines history, and the actions taken by them with the 'lock out' will remain a smudge on the QF brand along with every other brand damaging act they have undertaken in recent years.
To QF staff have a very Merry Xmas and continue your part in keeping the air safe.
To QF Management - A healthy Xmas middle finger salute !
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"Negotiations are never easy" Say that again Bill.... now Bill claims Gillard fixed it! There is no end to this current Labor government distortion of the truth....
hang your head in shame Bill... this is what you said on the 31/10/11
It is my view, FWA is flawed.
we got what can be considered the best deal under the circumstances we were placed. That is between the QF board and the government.
The credit should go to SP and his team....well done guys!
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Count the cost
Take a look at the share price while this has been going on. (No, I haven't any)
Ben has a go at this, saying it could all have been agreed months ago in normal negotiations and has been a big pissing contest to boil it down.
Reckon similar questions might get asked by lots of people.
Qantas gives up job security, union gives up on maintenance | Plane Talking
Ben has a go at this, saying it could all have been agreed months ago in normal negotiations and has been a big pissing contest to boil it down.
Reckon similar questions might get asked by lots of people.
Qantas gives up job security, union gives up on maintenance | Plane Talking
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Ever since the pro forma agreement was presented to the engineers I've been wondering 2 things.
1/ How are they going to %^$# us over with semantics in the agreement?
2/ If they are going to stick to the agreements words, what the bleeding hell was it all about ? So much damage and angst for jack****e.
1/ How are they going to %^$# us over with semantics in the agreement?
2/ If they are going to stick to the agreements words, what the bleeding hell was it all about ? So much damage and angst for jack****e.
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AB4
ALAEA members/Exec cannot determine the strategic path of the airline, therefore, we got the best possible outcome under the circumstances.
But, you must be just so much smarter.
Perhaps you could discuss, in hindsight, how you would have negotiated with these clowns, and the agreement terms you would have sought?
There was no sell out, not by a long shot. If that was the case, the majority of members would have voiced those concerns at the recent meetings.
ALAEA members/Exec cannot determine the strategic path of the airline, therefore, we got the best possible outcome under the circumstances.
But, you must be just so much smarter.
Perhaps you could discuss, in hindsight, how you would have negotiated with these clowns, and the agreement terms you would have sought?
There was no sell out, not by a long shot. If that was the case, the majority of members would have voiced those concerns at the recent meetings.
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What a sell out
we got what can be considered the best deal under the circumstances we were placed. That is between the QF board and the government.
by denabol; Take a look at the share price while this has been going on
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Ultimately there are limits on what we can do industrially.
Keeping a viable industry in Australia is mostly a political decision.
Keeping a viable industry in Australia is mostly a political decision.
As I think I posted some time ago, way back before a lot of you were in the Industry, maybe even born
, back in the 1960s when I was an Apprentice, Ansett had arranged for one of our Carvairs, the first of many Aircraft, to ferry to Hong Kong to undergo Overhaul, this was despite Ansett having very extensive Overhaul facilities in Melbourne, a move designed mainly to save money.In the end just the one Carvair went, NO others, and it was NOT due to any Industrial action, the Australian Government of the day stepped in and blocked it citing National Security, they wanted all this knowledge and expertise to remain in Australia in case of any National Emergencies or Wars etc.
Surely there would be just as good a case for this now, even more so with all the conflicts throughout the World, and of course the terrorism since 9/11.
Now the EBA is settled, NO need for any Industrial action by the ALAEA against Qantas directly, but what about pushing the Government and friends in the Labor Party to do this same thing, convince Qantas to keep all this expertise and knowledge IN Australia to protect our National Interest.
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Bye bye QF local engineering in a few years time. What a sell out.
The loss of engineering jobs was unfortunately inevitable due to the board having no intention of upgrading maintenance facilities in Australia for new generation aircraft after the phasing out of the current fleet of 747's and 767's. Was there ever an intention to maintain 380's in Australia outside of their weekly checks? Not a chance! Was there the intention to maintain the 787's in Australia, even after the alleged first 15 went to J*? Not a chance, and even less now that QANTAS won't be getting them at all.
As for the sell out, as cliched as this sounds and as I mentioned before, this is as good as we were going to get. End of story. The ALAEA knew that when they commenced their roadshows and the company had pretty well agreed to it at the time.
If you knew any more than what was proposed, what would have been a better solution? Keep fighting for a job security clause that was not binding?
Do we have job security for the next 3 years? No we don't. Our functions are guaranteed, but they will slowly diminish with the phasing out of the abovementioned aircraft types, and this will commence with the retiring of four 747's by March/April 2012. Once they're phased out, so are our functions along with the aircraft. This timing will coincide with the "new" Sydney Airport which features no QANTAS Jet Base, but a joint QANTAS/One World Domestic/International terminal around 2015.
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Well done ALAEA, thanks for your efforts. I think we got a decent deal & we gave those idiots a hiding. Management made fools of themselves, with the lies & BS. AJ, LC & the entire Board showed their attitude towards ALL unions.
I believe we've learnt alot about the mindset of these embiciles running the company also. It's a shame we haven't heard from the trolls lately aswell. I luv you guys!
ALAEA have a good Xmas & safe New Year.
I believe we've learnt alot about the mindset of these embiciles running the company also. It's a shame we haven't heard from the trolls lately aswell. I luv you guys!
ALAEA have a good Xmas & safe New Year.