Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

[Clipped]

Foot in Mouth event

OK Yoshi, spell it out for the un-informed. It is a rumour network.

[YOSHI]

Foot in Mouth !!!

VB Executive Member attended.

AJ slated VB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AJ and his merry men not happy when they found out that all in attendendance were not QF employees..........................

To explain.............ACTU requested ALAEA (and all unions invited ) to send Exectuive Member to attend the meeting, so one was sent.............not specified that they had to be a QF employee, just a member of the Union Executive.
Remeber the ALAEA represent all LAMEs in Aus. not just those employed by QF............

So they sent a member of the Exectuive.........

[Redstone]

So Yoshi, are you saying AJ said nasty things about VB to an exec member he thought to be a Qf employee, when in reality was a VB employee?

[LAME2]

Sounds like a storm in a tea cup. Executive members wear many hats, as we all do at different times. At the time of being in the meeting, the member was participating as an executive member, not a VB employee.

[33 Disengage]

LAME2 - It is a "storm in a teacup", so why did AJ "lose it" when he found out? Symptoms of a captain (I use that term loosely) starting to realize that he is going down with the ship.

[ConcernedLAME]

AJ seems to be that way inclined...during a recent Roadshow in BHM a member asked a question which got him all fired up....And behaving very childishly towards the member who asked it.

I found it very disturbing that the CEO of a company could behave so poorly ..especially in front of his so called team.

[unionist1974]

AJ ,
And his team are a long way off the pace compared to the last Exec team. But i am sure they think they are the best managers always do.

[Clipped]

Uni

After deciphering your post, I find myself ... actually ... possibly ... mildly ... agreeing with you.

[airtags]

I see LTP announced a new facility upgrade for Manilla - focus on 380, 330 & other types.

A further lowering of the ceiling on Australian maintenance.

[whatdouknow]

do you think that the white rat will already have there work scheduled for this new OS facility?

[whatdouknow]

so... if there was an imposter at the ACTU/Qf Meeting, who's fault is that?

surely someone would have egg on his/her face for not realising. Hope not too many secrets were discussed.

[Gas Bags]

I see LTP announced a new facility upgrade for Manilla - focus on 380, 330 & other types.

A further lowering of the ceiling on Australian maintenance.

Airtags,

I can understand the immediate reaction is to state what you have, however, what is the product like coming out of the LHT facility at NAIA? I have not been there myself so I cannot answer that question. Have you been there?

I would imagine that if QF ever send their aircraft to that facility then they will have a very large oversight team attending as well. The main role of the oversight team is to ensure a quality product.

I can state that for a 737 overhaul a normal oversight team would consist of 1-3 people, with some operators (the Indians especially) sending 7-8 staff to attend an overhaul. Qantas in the recent past sent between 12-16 people as an oversight team for a 737 overhaul in Asia. Obviously the numbers will be higher for a widebody.

Any MRO will do what the customer requests. That is how it works. If a team of 12-16 on a narrow body aircraft cant get a facility to provide the correct service then there should be planes dropping out of the sky on a regular basis.

On another thread I questioned a post that stated Qantas facilities, spares, manpower, etc were sadly lacking, and guess what, they were compared to LHT by others as a comeback to show how incorrect I was. As a matter of fact the almighty Sunfish even accused me of being a QF company troll in his post that stated the LHT facilities in the 80's were well advanced, for my daring to state such a thing, in his response to my post. (For the record I am not a QF troll....matter of fact I think the majority of QF management are inept, from the top to the bottom!).

Cake and eat it too?????????

GB

[Jet-A-One]

Get over it "Gas Bags". The comment is in relation to the current EA negotiations at QF. Something that doesn't seem to have much to do with you...

You wonder why you get accused of being a troll?

[Gas Bags]

Easy JA1, This is not personal....And it does have something to do with me. The longer QF manage to drive the wages at QF backwards with their less than CPI increases has an effect on the rest of the industry.

In my opinion all LAE's should be paid the same as a Captain at QF, as we all take the same responsibility all day everyday, and yes into the future as the signature on any CRS does not get erased at the end of the flight but stays valid for the life of the aircraft.

Ask yourself this before you get all defensive over your company, how does it get to a point where a LAE only gets paid around $70,000 a year?

Disgraceful...........

[Jet-A-One]

I do agree with that.

[Ngineer]

I would imagine that if QF ever send their aircraft to that facility then they will have a very large oversight team attending as well. The main role of the oversight team is to ensure a quality product.

Interesting point. I had a tour of a similar operation a few years back. There was 1, (yes only 1 LAE with his category lic) from that MRO certifying for the QF aircraft in the hangar and for the people working on it. He was also certifying for another 2 aircraft parked in the same hangar. He was a very busy boy, and had a mop in his a$$ cleaning the floors as well. The people working on the aircraft were not LAE's, in fact it was hard to distinguish their exact qualifications. This is not an opinion, just what I saw. And yes I did note that there were QF engineers there. I believe that their role was not for certification, rather to make sure that documentation was handled correctly and to supply technical/logistical support as requested by the MRO. (Though I stand to be corrected if that was not the case). They were also very busy.

The main role of the MRO is to supply a quality product, not the oversight team.

Now compare this (in direct contrast) to how Sydney Heavy operated. Numerous Licensed Aircraft Engineers working on the same aircraft. Numerous tradesmen and apprentices being trained. Alot of talent, albiet a more expensive option. Yet people still ignore all of these factors as having any real impact to our impeccable safety record, or quality of aircraft in that era. Having seen some third party work coming through H245, I can personally say from experience that some older aircraft from other operators came in as heaps of junk. They were not the quality we were used to working on, and hadn't been maintained to our standards.

Our past management destroyed all of this because, very basically, they had no clue about our work, quality or product. Totally understandable considering they are controlling a maintenace operation whilst having zero maintenace experience.

[Gas Bags]

Ngineer,

Valid points raised. As opposed to a tour, I have been in numerous MRO's throughout the world as a tech rep over a period of years, and have many good friends that are professional reps. I am here to tell you that it is the role of the tech rep (oversight team) to hold the MRO to task over the product they present. You will never certify as a customer for a work pack being undertaken by an MRO. Every MRO is operated as a business and they will shortchange you at every turn if you allow them. It can turn decidedly nasty at times, especially if you are on your own and against a team.

I do not disagree with you that the QF product is/was amongst the worlds finest. That is undeniable.

The point I am making is this...If a team of more than ten reps from Qantas cannot ensure that they receive a quality product from ANY MRO IN THE WORLD, then it is clearly not safe to travel by air as thousands of aircraft get maintained by independant MRO's throughout the world each year with much smaller oversight teams than Qantas send with their aircraft.

I agree with every point you raise regarding Sydney Heavy. Unfortunately the majority of MRO's will not operate in this manner as they are not part of an airline in the same way that Syd HM was.

It is a real shame that the world has gone this way, and facility's like Syd have been closed down for the express purpose of outsourcing to an overseas facility. Reality is reality and it is now up to the oversight team on any overhaul to get the best product from whatever facility they find themselves in. There are a lot worse than LHT I can assure you.

GB

[Black Hands]

I would imagine that if QF ever send their aircraft to that facility then they will have a very large oversight team attending as well. The main role of the oversight team is to ensure a quality product.

The QANTAS "oversight team" generally comprises 2 teams consisting of a production plannner, a materials/logistics representative, an avionic and mechanical LAME, a team leader and sometimes a representative from quality assurance. Apologies if I've forgotten someone... Working a day and afternoon roster aligning with a particular shift or LAME from the MRO.

The traditional QANTAS heavy maintenance facilities of Sydney and Melbourne Tulla, where a LAME is available to carry out, supervise and certify that each individual task has been performed correctly, ensures a high quality product. In stark contrast to LTP and similar MRO's, where 1 Mechanical and 1 Avionic LAME on each shift certify for every task carried out by MRO staff during the check, with minimal input or supervision, if any, due to the volume of work carried out each day.

The role of the QF LAME's as part of the "oversight team" is to determine defect rectification and repair processes, with the tasks physically performed by MRO staff and certified for by their LAME. In conjunction with the materials/logistics representative, QF LAMEs organise the arrival of required spares, and "vet" all completed task cards. The quality of the inspections and other scheduled maintenance tasks completed are the responsibility of the certifying LAME employed by the MRO.

Every MRO is operated as a business and they will shortchange you at every turn if you allow them. It can turn decidedly nasty at times, especially if you are on your own and against a team.

In my experience, the costs associated with the "check" only, have been predetermined, with defects found during functional tests and visual inspections billed on an adhoc basis. A reluctance to document and rectify defects, incorporate mods or carry out AD's due to the associated increase in hangar time, in turn complicating the arrival schedule of the next customers aircraft appears to be the norm. Which is why our aircraft return home with so many deferred items, costs then worn by QF engineering.

[33 Disengage]

QF Don't Negotiate "In Good Faith"

Olivia is in the Australian today and states

"Qantas has negotiated in good faith for several months and exhausted all avenues possible

If QF have been negotiating "In Good Faith" and "exhausted all possible avenues" why:-

1) Is nobody on the company's negotiating committee able to make a decision without going to QF corporate first?
2) Why does CN always have "more important meetings" to attend than the EBA meeting?
3) GH has stated that QF has "trump cards" that they have "not played yet".
4) Why are QF actively breaking provisions in the last EBA i.e. Transit Chk sheets

[Jet-A-One]

Crunch time?

The Australian 4/5/11