Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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"Our ability to maintain high service levels to the industry is being damaged by the actions of a small number of our air traffic controllers conducting unauthorised industrial action to support their wages claim," he said.
I try not to comment on things I know absolutely nothing about, but I have to say I find Mr. Russell's comments, if correctly reported by the ABC, distasteful.
To an outsider, certain practices and procedures to do with aircraft design, construction, maintenance, piloting and air traffic control appear archaic and inefficient or both.
To an outsider, these scream out for "modernisation" via the application of the latest management fad of the day or a large helping of computer technology, or both. I was guilty of this myself when very, very, young (thank you for curing me Capt. Kelynack and others).
....And eventually these efforts always fail because they are always based on a faulty appreciation of the core strategic competences required to do the job, or in other words what really matters
It appears to me that a number of institutions in Australia, starting with Airservices and large chunks of Qantas, are suffering from management with this faulty appreciation of what really matters.
I would like to think the situation can be corrected without loss of life, but of course "The Gods Of The Copybook Headings" are sitting patiently waiting to teach us the horrible basic lessons once again.
To an outsider, certain practices and procedures to do with aircraft design, construction, maintenance, piloting and air traffic control appear archaic and inefficient or both.
To an outsider, these scream out for "modernisation" via the application of the latest management fad of the day or a large helping of computer technology, or both. I was guilty of this myself when very, very, young (thank you for curing me Capt. Kelynack and others).
....And eventually these efforts always fail because they are always based on a faulty appreciation of the core strategic competences required to do the job, or in other words what really matters
It appears to me that a number of institutions in Australia, starting with Airservices and large chunks of Qantas, are suffering from management with this faulty appreciation of what really matters.
I would like to think the situation can be corrected without loss of life, but of course "The Gods Of The Copybook Headings" are sitting patiently waiting to teach us the horrible basic lessons once again.
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Where is the union, refuting these claims and informing the public about the real reasons of the shortage (i.e. 20+% decrease in operational controllers)???
Is the fact that ASA now claim the union has nothing to do with the "renegades" a pointer to an "understanding" they have come to not to engage in open battle?
Is the fact that ASA now claim the union has nothing to do with the "renegades" a pointer to an "understanding" they have come to not to engage in open battle?
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Plank Bender,
The link in my post above didn't work - see here: Civil Air Australia - Home
In attempting to increase public awareness and to refute some of the claims, the site has the following:
Civil Air Australia - Q&A with The President
Civil Air Australia - Airspace
Civil Air Australia - Latest Video
Civil Air Australia - Media Release
Civil Air Australia - How Many Controllers?
It is interesting to note that while Greg Russell (aka "TFN" on this forum) has stated in Senate Estimates that the closures/delays are due to a renegade few controllers, and not associated with the Civil Air union, ASA has taken Civil Air to the IRC accusing it of industrial action. Interestingly, the fact that Civil Air's website contains info on the airspace closures and links to media stories has been cited as one of the "proofs" of this supposed industrial action. I guess they don't want some things known to the public.
The link in my post above didn't work - see here: Civil Air Australia - Home
In attempting to increase public awareness and to refute some of the claims, the site has the following:
Civil Air Australia - Q&A with The President
Civil Air Australia - Airspace
Civil Air Australia - Latest Video
Civil Air Australia - Media Release
Civil Air Australia - How Many Controllers?
It is interesting to note that while Greg Russell (aka "TFN" on this forum) has stated in Senate Estimates that the closures/delays are due to a renegade few controllers, and not associated with the Civil Air union, ASA has taken Civil Air to the IRC accusing it of industrial action. Interestingly, the fact that Civil Air's website contains info on the airspace closures and links to media stories has been cited as one of the "proofs" of this supposed industrial action. I guess they don't want some things known to the public.
Last edited by Here to Help; 22nd Oct 2008 at 02:09.
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The GM of ATC (JH)has stated,on productivity, that in the last 8 years traffic at the 26 CONTROLLED aerodromes has only increased by a total of 1000 movements. From 3.109 million to 3.110 million, and that controller numbers have decreased from 1022 to 900 ( about 750 operational actually, because anyone still holding an ATC license is counted whether they talk to planes or are on 'projects', moved into management, are on Leave Without Pay, Maternity Leave, long term sick leave,etc.
The decline of GA and increase in RPT are not mentioned in his productivity figures. Wouldn't want to ruin a good argument. ASA take great joy in trumpeting their yearly reductions in navcharges. In 04/05 Annual Report the Chairman, Nick Burton-Taylor states that in the last ten years traffic has grown 49% and navcharges have been reduced 30%.This period includes 911, SARs,and the Brisbane Lions triple premiership.
In the 06/07 Annual Report (no sign of 07/08 yet?) TFN proudly boasts of 'the more than 4 million movements' that ASA ( the controllers) look after. In this report ASAs Airways revenue for THIS ONE YEAR was some $108 million more than 99/00(06/07 Airways Revenue was $676.7 million). Over the 8 years it is several hundreds of millions of dollars. What of the the over 900 000 that the GM wishes to remain hidden?
The GM of ATC is trying to use his rubbery figures to convince us that we are only moving an extra 1000 movements a year across Australia compared to 99/00. To put it in to perspective that is about one extra take-off OR landing A WEEK at the 26 controlled aerodromes, or if it is only the five major capitals 4 extra movements a week compared to 8 years ago.
BILLIONS have been/are being spent by Airports on runways, terminals and infrastructure. Why? When according to the Head of ATC nothing has been happening in Aviation. There are no jets into regional aerodromes, there is no Avalon, there is no mining activity in the West, Newcastle and Darwin don't exist (RAAF), there are no overflyers. Therefore there must be no extra delays into the major capital cities. No Virgin Blue, no Jetstar (we did lose Ansett), no Emirates or extra International Operators.
For the Aviators and readers out there, this is what emanates from the Alan Woods Building in Canberra.
If you are looking for your bonus in Canberra you can quote the reduction in controller numbers (big tick for bonus), the huge increase in revenue ( more brilliant management), bugger all change in movements ( see airlines haven't expanded at all, it must be management), we have reduced Airways Charges and still deliver a big profit. Hand out for huge bonus please.
The worst thing is I think those in BS Castle actually believe their own spin, and the Board are suitably enthralled. There are lies, damned lies and statistics. There are a lot of good people working at ASA, who work together to try and deliver a good service. The controllers couldn't do what we do without them. However ASA should remember that over 90% of revenue is brought in by 25% of their workforce. Last one out, please turn off the lights.
The decline of GA and increase in RPT are not mentioned in his productivity figures. Wouldn't want to ruin a good argument. ASA take great joy in trumpeting their yearly reductions in navcharges. In 04/05 Annual Report the Chairman, Nick Burton-Taylor states that in the last ten years traffic has grown 49% and navcharges have been reduced 30%.This period includes 911, SARs,and the Brisbane Lions triple premiership.
In the 06/07 Annual Report (no sign of 07/08 yet?) TFN proudly boasts of 'the more than 4 million movements' that ASA ( the controllers) look after. In this report ASAs Airways revenue for THIS ONE YEAR was some $108 million more than 99/00(06/07 Airways Revenue was $676.7 million). Over the 8 years it is several hundreds of millions of dollars. What of the the over 900 000 that the GM wishes to remain hidden?
The GM of ATC is trying to use his rubbery figures to convince us that we are only moving an extra 1000 movements a year across Australia compared to 99/00. To put it in to perspective that is about one extra take-off OR landing A WEEK at the 26 controlled aerodromes, or if it is only the five major capitals 4 extra movements a week compared to 8 years ago.
BILLIONS have been/are being spent by Airports on runways, terminals and infrastructure. Why? When according to the Head of ATC nothing has been happening in Aviation. There are no jets into regional aerodromes, there is no Avalon, there is no mining activity in the West, Newcastle and Darwin don't exist (RAAF), there are no overflyers. Therefore there must be no extra delays into the major capital cities. No Virgin Blue, no Jetstar (we did lose Ansett), no Emirates or extra International Operators.
For the Aviators and readers out there, this is what emanates from the Alan Woods Building in Canberra.
If you are looking for your bonus in Canberra you can quote the reduction in controller numbers (big tick for bonus), the huge increase in revenue ( more brilliant management), bugger all change in movements ( see airlines haven't expanded at all, it must be management), we have reduced Airways Charges and still deliver a big profit. Hand out for huge bonus please.
The worst thing is I think those in BS Castle actually believe their own spin, and the Board are suitably enthralled. There are lies, damned lies and statistics. There are a lot of good people working at ASA, who work together to try and deliver a good service. The controllers couldn't do what we do without them. However ASA should remember that over 90% of revenue is brought in by 25% of their workforce. Last one out, please turn off the lights.
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After a six month delay, Airservices have today released their Certified Agreement "offer."
Without entering into the offensiveness to the few remaining staff of their proposal, there is not one single item in it which suggests their attitude has changed to the current staffing crisis, or that they will attempt to find a solution. On the contrary, it looks as though further cuts are on the cards, which in turn will see more impositions put on the poor long-suffering customers.
This is going to get a whole lot uglier.
Without entering into the offensiveness to the few remaining staff of their proposal, there is not one single item in it which suggests their attitude has changed to the current staffing crisis, or that they will attempt to find a solution. On the contrary, it looks as though further cuts are on the cards, which in turn will see more impositions put on the poor long-suffering customers.
This is going to get a whole lot uglier.
I have personally witnessed this blokes (GR) "negotiation" style.
Years ago he accused the pilot representitive group at the company for which he was GM, of not acting in the best interest of the pilot body. You see, these people (the pilots commitee) had the temerity to argue that any wage increase should first and foremost be one of CPI and any additional increase be linked to productivity. The Company insisted that all that was available was some 1-2% below CPI, and if the employees wanted anything above that, then significant productivity offsets would be needed. Not surprisingly there was an impasse.
As a result of this the GM bypassed the pilot representative body, and went directly to the pilot group (via a letter and neatly packaged proposal) for a vote. The vote was a resounding defeat of virtually a 100% no!
I'm convinced that the inablity to empathise, if not even listen to your staff, must be some sort of genetic trait afflicting people of his ilk. What other explanation can there be for this apparent lack of reason? I'll say one thing, this particular leopard hasn't changed his spots!
From what I hear, the frustration is building. Believe me guys I know exactly how you feel. If the gloves do come off in December, I reckon the politicians, not to mention the public and airlines, will be looking for blood.
Hope you've got plenty to give Greg?
Years ago he accused the pilot representitive group at the company for which he was GM, of not acting in the best interest of the pilot body. You see, these people (the pilots commitee) had the temerity to argue that any wage increase should first and foremost be one of CPI and any additional increase be linked to productivity. The Company insisted that all that was available was some 1-2% below CPI, and if the employees wanted anything above that, then significant productivity offsets would be needed. Not surprisingly there was an impasse.
As a result of this the GM bypassed the pilot representative body, and went directly to the pilot group (via a letter and neatly packaged proposal) for a vote. The vote was a resounding defeat of virtually a 100% no!
I'm convinced that the inablity to empathise, if not even listen to your staff, must be some sort of genetic trait afflicting people of his ilk. What other explanation can there be for this apparent lack of reason? I'll say one thing, this particular leopard hasn't changed his spots!
From what I hear, the frustration is building. Believe me guys I know exactly how you feel. If the gloves do come off in December, I reckon the politicians, not to mention the public and airlines, will be looking for blood.
Hope you've got plenty to give Greg?
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Illuminated moment!
Wouldn't it be interesting if the IRC came back and said one extra shift a month was reasonable (which it is), and ALL the controllers took that literally.
My, wouldn't that be a pip.
Be careful what you wish for Gregory!
whaaaa, haaaaa, better start being a nice ars
e hole.
There I go again!
I really should practise my censoring.
BgTFN
My, wouldn't that be a pip.
Be careful what you wish for Gregory!
whaaaa, haaaaa, better start being a nice arse hole. There I go again!
I really should practise my censoring.
BgTFN
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Max1, why the reluctance to share the pitiful offer from AsA? I respect your postings on the union website, so I'll go along with you (more or less), but really can't see the harm in sharing - in fact, people might get an idea of why we are upset.
somniferous one thing that has already been 'revealed' is that AsA want us to give up our current as-required sickleave (bear in mind our requirement to be fit-for-duty) - now the last time I investigated the issue, income protection insurance - if you could find someone to cover ATC's was in the ball park of $15K a year. Since that comes out of my post-tax dollars, I'd need a pay rise of significantly more than that to agree to this reduction in conditions. AsA has definately NOT offered anything like this amount to offset the loss of protection afforded by the entitlement.
In fact, AsA have not put any indicative figures on any of the "productivity" trade-offs that they want us to consider. - Even though I'm sure the team of accountants in the AWB has costed every wishlist item extremely thoroughly and know exactly how much each is worth in savings to the organisation.
somniferous one thing that has already been 'revealed' is that AsA want us to give up our current as-required sickleave (bear in mind our requirement to be fit-for-duty) - now the last time I investigated the issue, income protection insurance - if you could find someone to cover ATC's was in the ball park of $15K a year. Since that comes out of my post-tax dollars, I'd need a pay rise of significantly more than that to agree to this reduction in conditions. AsA has definately NOT offered anything like this amount to offset the loss of protection afforded by the entitlement.
In fact, AsA have not put any indicative figures on any of the "productivity" trade-offs that they want us to consider. - Even though I'm sure the team of accountants in the AWB has costed every wishlist item extremely thoroughly and know exactly how much each is worth in savings to the organisation.
I'm convinced that the inablity to empathise, if not even listen to your staff, must be some sort of genetic trait afflicting people of his ilk. What other explanation can there be for this apparent lack of reason? I'll say one thing, this particular leopard hasn't changed his spots!
Narcissistic personality disorder perhaps? "Inability to empathise" is a symptom. It's always all about them, not you.
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UVA,
If somniferous is an ATC I am trying to encourage them to visit the website. I sense a journo digging for a story, and based on their form so far I am reluctant to help The Fourth Estate distort our issues in the public eye.
After TFNs disgusting and unproven allegations in the sanctity of Senates Estimates, the 'offer' is designed to provoke an unprofessional reaction from controllers. TFNs ego knows no bounds, he is trying to engineer a fight to save his own skin after three years of bonus driven, cost cutting that has left an organisation unable to fulfil its core responsibilty, or recover in the short/medium term.
We have been at the blame shifting stage for 12 months, he is trying to goad decent,responsible, professional people who have been trying to alert the Bureaucrats for over five years to the cliff we are approaching,into some silly action to justify his baseless assertions.
Controllers have been doing unreasonable O/T for years. TFN is on record as admitting it. What he is unwilling to do is fix it. He knows it will get a lot worse before it gets better, and is doing his damndest to move responsibilty. From other posters on here he's done it before.
If he really cared about the travelling public, he could go along way to fixing it through a decent gesture in the EBA. His personality types aren't wired that way. Reminds me of someone in a bunker in 1945.
The place is collapsing without ATC needing to resort to some fictitious industrial campaign, the Line Managers know it, the Lvl 3s know it, I suspect the GM ATC knows it. TFN is in denial.
It will take 3-4 years of ATCs still working stupid amounts of O/T to dig the Bureaucrats out of the hole they have dug, but based on what TFN thinks is a fantastic payrise 4%, to be obligated to come in 24/7, and give up sick leave protection is an insult.
97% of controllers use less than the 15 days. So he wants 700 plus controllers to give up this protection so they can take a stick to 20 people who are long term sick. In any large organisation you will find a few rorters amongst the long term sick, we already have the means to deal with these people.
They have also offered 14 weeks maternity leave (we had 12), and one weeks paternity leave, and choice of superannuation. Items the government have just mandated anyway. A quick look at the demographic of controllers (which seems to have escaped ASA for the last 10 years) will show maternity/paternity leave would mean nothing to about 95+% of controllers, and costs ASA nothing as the government would now be throwing about $8000 ASAs way per maternity leave when previously they got nothing.ASA are actually in front. What next free air and tap water?
If somniferous is an ATC I am trying to encourage them to visit the website. I sense a journo digging for a story, and based on their form so far I am reluctant to help The Fourth Estate distort our issues in the public eye.
After TFNs disgusting and unproven allegations in the sanctity of Senates Estimates, the 'offer' is designed to provoke an unprofessional reaction from controllers. TFNs ego knows no bounds, he is trying to engineer a fight to save his own skin after three years of bonus driven, cost cutting that has left an organisation unable to fulfil its core responsibilty, or recover in the short/medium term.
We have been at the blame shifting stage for 12 months, he is trying to goad decent,responsible, professional people who have been trying to alert the Bureaucrats for over five years to the cliff we are approaching,into some silly action to justify his baseless assertions.
Controllers have been doing unreasonable O/T for years. TFN is on record as admitting it. What he is unwilling to do is fix it. He knows it will get a lot worse before it gets better, and is doing his damndest to move responsibilty. From other posters on here he's done it before.
If he really cared about the travelling public, he could go along way to fixing it through a decent gesture in the EBA. His personality types aren't wired that way. Reminds me of someone in a bunker in 1945.
The place is collapsing without ATC needing to resort to some fictitious industrial campaign, the Line Managers know it, the Lvl 3s know it, I suspect the GM ATC knows it. TFN is in denial.
It will take 3-4 years of ATCs still working stupid amounts of O/T to dig the Bureaucrats out of the hole they have dug, but based on what TFN thinks is a fantastic payrise 4%, to be obligated to come in 24/7, and give up sick leave protection is an insult.
97% of controllers use less than the 15 days. So he wants 700 plus controllers to give up this protection so they can take a stick to 20 people who are long term sick. In any large organisation you will find a few rorters amongst the long term sick, we already have the means to deal with these people.
They have also offered 14 weeks maternity leave (we had 12), and one weeks paternity leave, and choice of superannuation. Items the government have just mandated anyway. A quick look at the demographic of controllers (which seems to have escaped ASA for the last 10 years) will show maternity/paternity leave would mean nothing to about 95+% of controllers, and costs ASA nothing as the government would now be throwing about $8000 ASAs way per maternity leave when previously they got nothing.ASA are actually in front. What next free air and tap water?
Last edited by max1; 23rd Oct 2008 at 02:55.
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And what were you expecting. Some huge generous offer??
This time round will be the same as last time round and then the time before that.
The question is....when it gets put to the vote, which it will.....like last time, will the silent majority vote for it anyway? Maybe not the first vote but it shouldn't take too long or too many changes to get enough people to say...."I am retiring soon. I don't really want to take industrial action, I'll quietly vote yes".
And Canberra knows that this is what will happen - unless you guys stick together.
This time round will be the same as last time round and then the time before that.
The question is....when it gets put to the vote, which it will.....like last time, will the silent majority vote for it anyway? Maybe not the first vote but it shouldn't take too long or too many changes to get enough people to say...."I am retiring soon. I don't really want to take industrial action, I'll quietly vote yes".
And Canberra knows that this is what will happen - unless you guys stick together.
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As always Max, you're on the money from the perspective of this outside observer.
My read is that your management is hell-bent on a fight during the XMAS period. The disruption to the general publics' holiday plans would not elicit any sympathy - you'd be painted as a bunch of 'union thugs' holding the travelling public to ransom.
I think that it's their last "shot in the locker" and, from what I've read on your website, I don't think that the guys that run Civil Air are that stupid. Regardless, there will be provocation to encourage industrial action - rising to the bait would be dead-set stupid.
To paraphrase an aviation legend, "I am sure you will agree."
My read is that your management is hell-bent on a fight during the XMAS period. The disruption to the general publics' holiday plans would not elicit any sympathy - you'd be painted as a bunch of 'union thugs' holding the travelling public to ransom.
I think that it's their last "shot in the locker" and, from what I've read on your website, I don't think that the guys that run Civil Air are that stupid. Regardless, there will be provocation to encourage industrial action - rising to the bait would be dead-set stupid.
To paraphrase an aviation legend, "I am sure you will agree."
Normally in a business it is better to have full time staff than to rely on overtime – because of the overtime loadings that normally apply.
Is there something different at Airservices? Is it less expensive for Airservices management to rely on overtime rather than putting on the adequate number of full time staff?
I look forward to advice on this.
Is there something different at Airservices? Is it less expensive for Airservices management to rely on overtime rather than putting on the adequate number of full time staff?
I look forward to advice on this.
