Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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Hempy,
I'm not sure where you are coming from.
A phone call at 5am to attend at 6am, could never be deemed to be reasonable. A day or 2 notice could be called reasonable. The aisle I work in Brisbane probably now has 70% with school age children, 5 years ago it was about 15%. Its called work/life balance, and the demographic was pointed out over 6 years ago.
TFN has traded on the controllers goodwill, and professional pride, to never have airspace closures for his entire tenure. His short-term bonus driven culture has been underpinned by this. The profits ASA have delivered to the government have been due to the airlines flying more and the cut in controller numbers.His forays have been more about growing the global brand, and how much has that cost?
The Board allowed him his way, because profits were up. They brought him in as a 'cost cutter', and his bonuses were predicated on this, and he has delivered short term. Long term his actions have led us to this point. ASA have a catch phrase of 'Leaders Leading'. Well when the CEO is remunerated for a short term result it should come as no surprise to the Board where we are being led to! The Board have a lot to answer for in this debacle.
Their only recourse is to continue to back the 'Smoke and Mirrors' man or be exposed to being asleep at the wheel." Golly, I thought this was an easy gig, no-one told me I was actually supposed to provide some oversight"
People will allow their lives to be decimated for the common good for only so long. Three years this idiot was given to make good his promises, and for three years he has had a short term outlook. His comments in the media only serve to inflame the situation. I have sympathy for JH, I believe he is trying, with one hand tied behind his back, to achieve something.
TFNs personality does not allow him to admit fault and move forward. He has seriously misjudged the mood of the controllers, and is trying to convince himself that Civilair is behind some self perceived industrial campaign rather than that he, and his team, has terribly mismanaged the situation.
TFN may be time for the Golden Parachute, or as ASA love to put it out " He has left to pursue other opportunities"
I'm not sure where you are coming from.
A phone call at 5am to attend at 6am, could never be deemed to be reasonable. A day or 2 notice could be called reasonable. The aisle I work in Brisbane probably now has 70% with school age children, 5 years ago it was about 15%. Its called work/life balance, and the demographic was pointed out over 6 years ago.
TFN has traded on the controllers goodwill, and professional pride, to never have airspace closures for his entire tenure. His short-term bonus driven culture has been underpinned by this. The profits ASA have delivered to the government have been due to the airlines flying more and the cut in controller numbers.His forays have been more about growing the global brand, and how much has that cost?
The Board allowed him his way, because profits were up. They brought him in as a 'cost cutter', and his bonuses were predicated on this, and he has delivered short term. Long term his actions have led us to this point. ASA have a catch phrase of 'Leaders Leading'. Well when the CEO is remunerated for a short term result it should come as no surprise to the Board where we are being led to! The Board have a lot to answer for in this debacle.
Their only recourse is to continue to back the 'Smoke and Mirrors' man or be exposed to being asleep at the wheel." Golly, I thought this was an easy gig, no-one told me I was actually supposed to provide some oversight"
People will allow their lives to be decimated for the common good for only so long. Three years this idiot was given to make good his promises, and for three years he has had a short term outlook. His comments in the media only serve to inflame the situation. I have sympathy for JH, I believe he is trying, with one hand tied behind his back, to achieve something.
TFNs personality does not allow him to admit fault and move forward. He has seriously misjudged the mood of the controllers, and is trying to convince himself that Civilair is behind some self perceived industrial campaign rather than that he, and his team, has terribly mismanaged the situation.
TFN may be time for the Golden Parachute, or as ASA love to put it out " He has left to pursue other opportunities"
Last edited by max1; 8th Oct 2008 at 11:05.
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Originally Posted by max1
Hempy,
I'm not sure where you are coming from.
A phone call at 5am to attend at 6am, could never be deemed to be reasonable.
I'm not sure where you are coming from.
A phone call at 5am to attend at 6am, could never be deemed to be reasonable.
My point, in a rather convoluted way, is this. What YOU or I decide is REASONABLE is irrelevant. We don't get to make that choice. ASA are telling us (in their own special confrontational IRC way) that THEY decide what is reasonable, not you. You are just a worker ant. There are untold numbers of media bites of the ASA CEO complaining that ATC's are being UNREASONABLE (amongst other things).THEY (ASA) set the employment conditions....YOU agree to them when you sign up, ipso facto any time you don't do what they want you are being UNREASONABLE (theres that word again)...
Which is all to say that to prevent any of this rubbish in the future, REASONABLE should be CLEARLY defined (clearly enough to be monitored, by BOTH sides) in the next CA, if not deleted from it entirely. If ASA want to run a BUSINESS that is propped up by permanent 50+ hour weeks, they can at least put their requirements in black and white, not by the disengenious method of "REASONABLE". IMO.
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We don't get to make that choice. ASA are telling us (in their own special confrontational IRC way) that THEY decide what is reasonable, not you.
The term 'reasonable' doesn't stretch to covering for inept management.
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If this gets argued well in the IRC, I think AsA might get a shock.
Overtime is just that. OVER TIME. Traditionally used to cover short term increases in labour requirement (big extra job needs completion in short time etc). As someone pointed out earlier, relying on constant overtime, forever, is not reasonable. It is a permanent adjustment to T&Cs, to basic working hours. Hours not agreed to by the employee. The EBA needs to be altered to reflect this ie. "the employee shall be required to work UP TO 44 hours per week". Then there would be overtime on top of this, to cover short term, unplanned increases in labour requirement.
I'm sure the employees would agree, given adequate adjustment to the basic remuneration, annual leave etc.
Just have to decide what's 'adequate".
Overtime is just that. OVER TIME. Traditionally used to cover short term increases in labour requirement (big extra job needs completion in short time etc). As someone pointed out earlier, relying on constant overtime, forever, is not reasonable. It is a permanent adjustment to T&Cs, to basic working hours. Hours not agreed to by the employee. The EBA needs to be altered to reflect this ie. "the employee shall be required to work UP TO 44 hours per week". Then there would be overtime on top of this, to cover short term, unplanned increases in labour requirement.
I'm sure the employees would agree, given adequate adjustment to the basic remuneration, annual leave etc.
Just have to decide what's 'adequate".
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Thanks Hempy,
Now I get what you are alluding to.
It amazes me with all the people they have running around giving presentations, working on projects, flying around for meetings, writing vision statements,etc, they have never bothered researching the demographics of their most critical workforce.
Its not rocket science.
Now I get what you are alluding to.
It amazes me with all the people they have running around giving presentations, working on projects, flying around for meetings, writing vision statements,etc, they have never bothered researching the demographics of their most critical workforce.
Its not rocket science.
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Max, from discussions with the previous generation of middle-level management, I understand that the 'demographic' was well known as far back as 2001, but ignored in the interests of the short-term bottom-line. In short, the organisation shafted itself.
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Howabout,
Unfortunately the greasy pole doesn't allow people to point out obvious speed bumps. Unless you are saying Yes Sir to the bonus driven CEOs you are seen as 'not a team player' and given the 'opportunity to pursue other interests'.
'Long term planning' went out the window along with 'integrity' and 'common sense', there wasn't enough room in the building when 'bonuses' came in.
We got rid of bonuses as they weren't conducive to a safety industry. We replaced bonuses with 'at risk' components.
The difference is (as you know)
a) you are on a $200k with a $50k bonus for hitting some target,total package $250k. This is bad.
b) you are on $250k, if you dont hit the target we take off $50k. This is good and completely different to situation (a).
At risk components are completely different to bonuses. Pleeeaase!
Unfortunately the greasy pole doesn't allow people to point out obvious speed bumps. Unless you are saying Yes Sir to the bonus driven CEOs you are seen as 'not a team player' and given the 'opportunity to pursue other interests'.
'Long term planning' went out the window along with 'integrity' and 'common sense', there wasn't enough room in the building when 'bonuses' came in.
We got rid of bonuses as they weren't conducive to a safety industry. We replaced bonuses with 'at risk' components.
The difference is (as you know)
a) you are on a $200k with a $50k bonus for hitting some target,total package $250k. This is bad.
b) you are on $250k, if you dont hit the target we take off $50k. This is good and completely different to situation (a).
At risk components are completely different to bonuses. Pleeeaase!
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they have never bothered researching the demographics of their most critical workforce
. The important people sit in offices making Big Picture Blue Sky/Greenfield Paradigm Shifting Synergistic/Holistic decisions.NB
Last edited by Nautilus Blue; 9th Oct 2008 at 14:26.
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excerpt from an union update on the AIRC meeting today (be interesting to go to work tomorrow and see how AsA spin it 
)
sounds to me like AsA did not get the quick injunction they were looking for....
EDIT, the next hearing on the 17th is 2 days after the due date for the AsA financial report to be tabled to parliment. I don't think that was just luck on the part of the Commisioner.....
)
The Airservices application to the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) to have a dispute resolution process conducted, went before Commissioner Smith at 2.30pm today in Melbourne. .... The Commission adjourned to consider the respective positions. Upon his return he determined the following: Civil Air have a jurisdictional argument to run and as such the Commission will list the matter to hear these arguments at 10.00am on Friday, 17 October 2008. Airservices are to provide “its materials” including any orders they may seek, to the Australian Industrial Registry and Civil Air by Wednesday 15 October 2008. He has also set aside 27-28 October 2008 for Hearing which will either proceed or not, depending on the outcome of the jurisdictional argument on 17 October 2008. The Commissioner indicated that the decision on that matter would be issued expeditiously.
EDIT, the next hearing on the 17th is 2 days after the due date for the AsA financial report to be tabled to parliment. I don't think that was just luck on the part of the Commisioner.....
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Max,
Thanks for the reply. All of my posts have, mysteriously, disappeared. I got a message along the lines of 'update your email' (which was still current), but I don't think I've been banned - scratches head.
Thanks for the reply. All of my posts have, mysteriously, disappeared. I got a message along the lines of 'update your email' (which was still current), but I don't think I've been banned - scratches head.
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After all, controllers are unskilled people taken off the street and given a quick (but lets make it quicker, save some money!) internal training course. They the do a rigidly prescribed job by simply following a set of rules. The important people sit in offices making Big Picture Blue Sky/Greenfield Paradigm Shifting Synergistic/Holistic decisions.
10 years ago I would have called you cynical....
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Nice post Hempy!
I would add that Management(?) are also planning on technology ( FPCP etc) reducing the number of controllers over time.
Now don`t get me wrong, computers etc have changed the way we do things but, and it`s a big but, management seem to have forgotten the best decisions are made in that lump of grey matter floating between most peoples ears. Technology will never replace completely a properly trained and suitably experienced controller from making really really important desisions when the you know what hits the fan.
One only has to look at recent events @FL370 off the coast of W.A. Computer problems or not the Man ( or Woman ) in the left hand seat gathered the evidence and made some quick decisions. Result? Excellent!
There is no substitute for a suitably trained ( and renumerated! ) individual.....
I would add that Management(?) are also planning on technology ( FPCP etc) reducing the number of controllers over time.
Now don`t get me wrong, computers etc have changed the way we do things but, and it`s a big but, management seem to have forgotten the best decisions are made in that lump of grey matter floating between most peoples ears. Technology will never replace completely a properly trained and suitably experienced controller from making really really important desisions when the you know what hits the fan.
One only has to look at recent events @FL370 off the coast of W.A. Computer problems or not the Man ( or Woman ) in the left hand seat gathered the evidence and made some quick decisions. Result? Excellent!
There is no substitute for a suitably trained ( and renumerated! ) individual.....
Last edited by boree3; 9th Oct 2008 at 22:51. Reason: Missed a word. bugger!
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I would add that Management(?) are also planning on technology ( FPCP etc) reducing the number of controllers over time.
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More spin than Lehman Brothers
To quote from part of an article in The Oz on 9 Oct:
"Airservices accuses controllers of refusing to work overtime in order to strengthen their hand in current negotiations for improved wages and conditions.
The issue came to a head on Sunday when 11 out of 119 controllers in Melbourne called in sick -- a situation Airservices believes is part of an undeclared industrial campaign by controllers and their union.
"On Sunday there were 11 unplanned absences from Melbourne control centre, none of which were able to be covered," Airservices spokesman Rob Walker said yesterday."
He wants the media and the public to believe not one controller came in on one of their rare Sundays off to help. Not true.
A quick look at the electronic daysheets shows over 20 controllers either attended on their day off, extended their shift or changed from another shift.
Controllers are keeping the place running in spite of being continually bagged by our employer.
To the media: please don't be fooled by their desperate spin.
"Airservices accuses controllers of refusing to work overtime in order to strengthen their hand in current negotiations for improved wages and conditions.
The issue came to a head on Sunday when 11 out of 119 controllers in Melbourne called in sick -- a situation Airservices believes is part of an undeclared industrial campaign by controllers and their union.
"On Sunday there were 11 unplanned absences from Melbourne control centre, none of which were able to be covered," Airservices spokesman Rob Walker said yesterday."
He wants the media and the public to believe not one controller came in on one of their rare Sundays off to help. Not true.
A quick look at the electronic daysheets shows over 20 controllers either attended on their day off, extended their shift or changed from another shift.
Controllers are keeping the place running in spite of being continually bagged by our employer.
To the media: please don't be fooled by their desperate spin.
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11 out of 119 controllers
There might be that many across all the airspace groups that were affected by sickness that day, but only a subset of the 119 - likely 15 to 20 odd in each case - would have the particular combination of ratings needed to replace the particular shift. Of those, probably 65% would already be at work that day, maybe 10-15% would be on holidays, leaving perhaps 25%, or maybe 4-5 people rostered off, who might have been eligible (fatigue wise) to fill the shift.
the other issue with this "overtime" is that it is SHORT NOTICE overtime - you usually get called only a few hours before AsA wants you to come in. If you've taken some medicine, had a drink, or just not had enough sleep, you are not fit for duty, and so you cannot attend - no matter how much AsA might want you to.
If we had a policy of overstaffing - or even an actual "on-call" type roster, then there would be less of a problem. But one of those needs extra staff, and the other needs advance planning....
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YouTube posting
recently see on YouTube that may be of interest...
YouTube - Airservices Australia's Downfall
enjoy,
CivilAirMember
YouTube - Airservices Australia's Downfall
enjoy,
CivilAirMember