Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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If anything Plazbot, this goose has revived the thread, and for that I am thankful.
I must say that asanon does through his post remind me of a certain ML ALM, look forward to the next post to confirm. Cheers Bud!
Any comments about last friday in ML, apparently it was a disaster.
Sorry to all those that pilot! But what can you do without staff?
I must say that asanon does through his post remind me of a certain ML ALM, look forward to the next post to confirm. Cheers Bud!
Any comments about last friday in ML, apparently it was a disaster.
Sorry to all those that pilot! But what can you do without staff?
you should of seen Saturday afternoon in Syd!!!!
Besides thunderstorms we had two people only for departures from 4pm till 10pm. Approach was missing two, sectors around us were going TIBA now and then and parts of our airspace was uncontrolled!!!!!
Aircraft must of put on so much extra fuel several needed very long downwinds just to get under max landing weight! Aircraft that would normally track via Ric or Kat outbound had to plan out via Wol or ENTRA as departures west was not manned. Absolute Shambles!!!!!!!!!!
Besides thunderstorms we had two people only for departures from 4pm till 10pm. Approach was missing two, sectors around us were going TIBA now and then and parts of our airspace was uncontrolled!!!!!
Aircraft must of put on so much extra fuel several needed very long downwinds just to get under max landing weight! Aircraft that would normally track via Ric or Kat outbound had to plan out via Wol or ENTRA as departures west was not manned. Absolute Shambles!!!!!!!!!!
Via Entra was unmanned from 6 for 20 minutes and 9:30-10 bris time with only 1 person for 3 sectors from 4pm then, the whole thing below class A was unmanned from 10pm till 5am.
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Todays Crickey
4 . AirServices Australia go uncontrolled
Ben Sandilands writes:
Last Friday afternoon for about two hours between Melbourne and Sydney, during the busiest of peak hours for the busiest air route in the country, thousands of passengers were trapped in jets or in terminals because AirServices Australia couldn't fully man the air traffic control system.
Crikey subscriber 'Peter' on board QF 448 to Sydney took notes....
As we finished boarding and the door was closed, the captain came on fairly quickly to advise us there was a problem with air traffic control and he was trying to get to the bottom of it.
There was a distinct and vocal response from passengers on the near-full flight. The captain reiterated it was a problem from AirServices Australia, beyond the control of anybody at Qantas.
We were updated that there was industrial action by controllers and it was unclear how long we would be delayed and that in the circumstances, we were free to turn on and use any 'electronic devices'.
Quite clearly aggrieved, the captain advised he was getting off the aircraft to make a number of calls and speak with the Qantas chief pilot. Upon his return, he addressed us again to advise that the chief pilot had instructed him not to fly in unmanned airspace. He explained the safety aspects, saying it involved taking risks Qantas wasn't prepared to take and supported his boss saying, "I applauded this decision."
The mood in the cabin was very supporting of Qantas notwithstanding the problems the delays were causing to us. He again pointed out it was not the fault of anyone at Qantas and there was nothing we could do, except to contact our politicians and call for them to fix this mess. I thought maybe there was something I could do right now, and I'd give it my best shot. I put a call in to Greg Russell, CEO of Airservices Australia.
I got through to the switch, and proceeded through a number of gatekeepers until I got to his PA, Andreas. He asked my name and what it was in relation to. I gave my name and explained I was passenger 46B on flight QF448, and that I was being held to ransom by the actions of his company.
Andreas sounded a bit miffed, as well as confused, advising me there was no industrial action today. I assured him I was encountering a significant delay on the tarmac, allegedly due to the lack of air traffic controllers. He mumbled something then informed me that Greg Russell "doesn't take these kind of calls and was sure there was no industrial action today" and asked me to hold.
I was finally put through to their corporate public affairs guy who humoured me and handled the call with courtesy as he explained his understanding of the situation. He conceded it could be either a genuine mass sick leave occurrence (perhaps some rabid and virulent strain of diarrhoea,) or it could be "covert industrial action, as we are in a collective bargaining period -- it has happened before." He even had a laugh when I suggested if it was found that this was covert industrial action, we return to public stoning -- it was Friday night after all.
Let's get this in perspective: all airspace on the Easter seaboard of Australia shut down from 4:30-6:30pm on a Friday night. Thousands of business travellers were held to ransom over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
The crew did their best to understand and accommodate the national and international flight connections of those on board, but the impact is real, for everybody. My colleague missed his son's first water polo grand final (they lost), another nearby passenger was going to miss a wedding in Singapore. The hostie had planned to watch a DVD with her hubby.
But Greg Russell didn’t want to hear about the personal impact of the failings of the business he runs.
Well Mr Russell, maybe if your time is so important not to take calls from the peasants being held hostage for two hours... because the business you are responsible for cannot deliver the service it is paid to deliver, perhaps you should at least humour them by drafting a form letter apologising to their families -- especially the kids -- for the little bits of life that are actually important to them that you caused their mum or dad to miss.
Or you could have a crack at fixing the business you are responsible for running.
Peter's notes are significant for other reasons. This is more evidence of the lies that are told by AirServices Australia and CASA about how not having controlled separation in our skies is safe. Qantas is telling them it is unsafe. It is AirServices major customer. It has had such a gut-full of nonsense over this it is mobilising its passengers to complain.
It is incredible in a modern nation that flights between the two largest cities can't be given reliable air traffic control. Russell claimed early last August the staffing problems would be over by the end of that month. He's the CEO. How could he get it so wrong? Does AirServices really expect people to believe it has been crippled by an industrial agreement negotiating process for a whole year of staffing screw ups?
It wasn't lack of dollars in pay packets that kept controllers away from Melbourne on Friday night, or away from Sydney, causing more widespread chaos on Saturday; it was lack of staff. AirServices hasn't managed its human resources. It slashed deeply into training and made errors in staff allocation. If it was just about the pay, no one would be left to man anything at AirServices. They would all be working for far better pay and conditions in Eire, Germany and the Middle East.
When is this curtain of bulldust going to drop away and compel the minister to confront this dangerous and unsatisfactory state of affairs in Australian air traffic control?
Perhaps as soon as tomorrow, when he releases the green paper on future aviation policy. Or will that also disappoint?
Ben Sandilands writes:
Last Friday afternoon for about two hours between Melbourne and Sydney, during the busiest of peak hours for the busiest air route in the country, thousands of passengers were trapped in jets or in terminals because AirServices Australia couldn't fully man the air traffic control system.
Crikey subscriber 'Peter' on board QF 448 to Sydney took notes....
As we finished boarding and the door was closed, the captain came on fairly quickly to advise us there was a problem with air traffic control and he was trying to get to the bottom of it.
There was a distinct and vocal response from passengers on the near-full flight. The captain reiterated it was a problem from AirServices Australia, beyond the control of anybody at Qantas.
We were updated that there was industrial action by controllers and it was unclear how long we would be delayed and that in the circumstances, we were free to turn on and use any 'electronic devices'.
Quite clearly aggrieved, the captain advised he was getting off the aircraft to make a number of calls and speak with the Qantas chief pilot. Upon his return, he addressed us again to advise that the chief pilot had instructed him not to fly in unmanned airspace. He explained the safety aspects, saying it involved taking risks Qantas wasn't prepared to take and supported his boss saying, "I applauded this decision."
The mood in the cabin was very supporting of Qantas notwithstanding the problems the delays were causing to us. He again pointed out it was not the fault of anyone at Qantas and there was nothing we could do, except to contact our politicians and call for them to fix this mess. I thought maybe there was something I could do right now, and I'd give it my best shot. I put a call in to Greg Russell, CEO of Airservices Australia.
I got through to the switch, and proceeded through a number of gatekeepers until I got to his PA, Andreas. He asked my name and what it was in relation to. I gave my name and explained I was passenger 46B on flight QF448, and that I was being held to ransom by the actions of his company.
Andreas sounded a bit miffed, as well as confused, advising me there was no industrial action today. I assured him I was encountering a significant delay on the tarmac, allegedly due to the lack of air traffic controllers. He mumbled something then informed me that Greg Russell "doesn't take these kind of calls and was sure there was no industrial action today" and asked me to hold.
I was finally put through to their corporate public affairs guy who humoured me and handled the call with courtesy as he explained his understanding of the situation. He conceded it could be either a genuine mass sick leave occurrence (perhaps some rabid and virulent strain of diarrhoea,) or it could be "covert industrial action, as we are in a collective bargaining period -- it has happened before." He even had a laugh when I suggested if it was found that this was covert industrial action, we return to public stoning -- it was Friday night after all.
Let's get this in perspective: all airspace on the Easter seaboard of Australia shut down from 4:30-6:30pm on a Friday night. Thousands of business travellers were held to ransom over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
The crew did their best to understand and accommodate the national and international flight connections of those on board, but the impact is real, for everybody. My colleague missed his son's first water polo grand final (they lost), another nearby passenger was going to miss a wedding in Singapore. The hostie had planned to watch a DVD with her hubby.
But Greg Russell didn’t want to hear about the personal impact of the failings of the business he runs.
Well Mr Russell, maybe if your time is so important not to take calls from the peasants being held hostage for two hours... because the business you are responsible for cannot deliver the service it is paid to deliver, perhaps you should at least humour them by drafting a form letter apologising to their families -- especially the kids -- for the little bits of life that are actually important to them that you caused their mum or dad to miss.
Or you could have a crack at fixing the business you are responsible for running.
Peter's notes are significant for other reasons. This is more evidence of the lies that are told by AirServices Australia and CASA about how not having controlled separation in our skies is safe. Qantas is telling them it is unsafe. It is AirServices major customer. It has had such a gut-full of nonsense over this it is mobilising its passengers to complain.
It is incredible in a modern nation that flights between the two largest cities can't be given reliable air traffic control. Russell claimed early last August the staffing problems would be over by the end of that month. He's the CEO. How could he get it so wrong? Does AirServices really expect people to believe it has been crippled by an industrial agreement negotiating process for a whole year of staffing screw ups?
It wasn't lack of dollars in pay packets that kept controllers away from Melbourne on Friday night, or away from Sydney, causing more widespread chaos on Saturday; it was lack of staff. AirServices hasn't managed its human resources. It slashed deeply into training and made errors in staff allocation. If it was just about the pay, no one would be left to man anything at AirServices. They would all be working for far better pay and conditions in Eire, Germany and the Middle East.
When is this curtain of bulldust going to drop away and compel the minister to confront this dangerous and unsatisfactory state of affairs in Australian air traffic control?
Perhaps as soon as tomorrow, when he releases the green paper on future aviation policy. Or will that also disappoint?
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Oh my Gawd! You mean all those flights actually carry passengers! What, real people going places? 
Passenger 'Peter' only made one mistake. Friday arvo and he expected somebody to answer the phone in Canberra? Ever heard of 'POETS' day? C`mon, get real, only controllers are at work by 4.30 on a Friday arvo. The 'support' staff are all long gone for their weekend.
Passenger 'Peter' only made one mistake. Friday arvo and he expected somebody to answer the phone in Canberra? Ever heard of 'POETS' day? C`mon, get real, only controllers are at work by 4.30 on a Friday arvo. The 'support' staff are all long gone for their weekend.
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Plazbot... the whole thing below class A was unmanned from 10pm till 5am....
so, what's a journeyperson? see below:
Making an Air Traffic Controller:
after a selection/screening process that takes anywhere from 6 to 12 months, followed by 9 - 12 months in the academy (longer if they are bumped to be tgo's for a RAAF course) it normally takes about 3 months to get the 1st rating.
so anywhere from 1+1/2 to 2+1/4 years to turn a suitable person with no previous experience into an ATC.
Then the journeyperson is supposed to consolidate for 6 months before going for any more endorsements.
And of course, the individual can fail out at anytime, and the timeline is reset back to zero with the next candidate.
This length of time (1.5 to 2.25 years) required for training is unchanged since TFN became CEO 4 years ago.
But it is only halfway through this year that he suddenly started ramping up training intake.
Now do you see why there is a problem finding people to keep airspace open?
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Trueline,
There is a lot more to it than just 'supervisors' being put on AWAs.
TFN and co. offered the supervisory(ALM) roles ONLY on AWAs (politically driven) these positions replaced the team leader role.
Team leaders, on the whole , had extensive operational experience and time in the job. The ATS Line Manager (ALM) job would NOT be a position that involved actual controlling of aircraft but would involve a large increase in pay.
Quite a few of the team leaders had reservations about the positions and chose not to take them up. At the stroke of a pen in September 2007 we lost @100 controllers who were now 'managers'.
Some of these 'managers' had less than 2 years experience, some have had 'show cause' notices due to 'chequered' controlling careers, the experienced one are shaking their collective heads wondering why they ever took up the position in such a dysfunctional organisation.
And this is why passengers are sitting on tarmacs getting frustrated, because we never had the staff to go down the ALM path and TFN and his cronies are loath to admit that they forgot to do any staff planning and then exacerbated the problem with their SDE (Service Delivery Environment) project that spawned ALMs.
SDE, makes you laugh, doesn't it?
There is a lot more to it than just 'supervisors' being put on AWAs.
TFN and co. offered the supervisory(ALM) roles ONLY on AWAs (politically driven) these positions replaced the team leader role.
Team leaders, on the whole , had extensive operational experience and time in the job. The ATS Line Manager (ALM) job would NOT be a position that involved actual controlling of aircraft but would involve a large increase in pay.
Quite a few of the team leaders had reservations about the positions and chose not to take them up. At the stroke of a pen in September 2007 we lost @100 controllers who were now 'managers'.
Some of these 'managers' had less than 2 years experience, some have had 'show cause' notices due to 'chequered' controlling careers, the experienced one are shaking their collective heads wondering why they ever took up the position in such a dysfunctional organisation.
And this is why passengers are sitting on tarmacs getting frustrated, because we never had the staff to go down the ALM path and TFN and his cronies are loath to admit that they forgot to do any staff planning and then exacerbated the problem with their SDE (Service Delivery Environment) project that spawned ALMs.
SDE, makes you laugh, doesn't it?
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Saturday afternoon/evening was an absolute disgrace.
How does ASA management get away with it??
By the way, was the PM aboard the Envoy 737 that went through TIBA into YSCB?
How does ASA management get away with it??
By the way, was the PM aboard the Envoy 737 that went through TIBA into YSCB?
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Yes, sounds like Sat arvo was a shambles.
A mate of mine flew out of SYD to HKG on a CX flight that afternoon. He reports that the plan went like this initially: SYD-WOL-CB-CWR-BKE-CMU, and then standard routings.... An extra 35 mins flight time. AND planned, yes, planned at FL200 until CMU due traffic/separation issues!
Sorry, this is Australia, isn't it, not Africa? ASA - heads need to roll all the way from the top.
A mate of mine flew out of SYD to HKG on a CX flight that afternoon. He reports that the plan went like this initially: SYD-WOL-CB-CWR-BKE-CMU, and then standard routings.... An extra 35 mins flight time. AND planned, yes, planned at FL200 until CMU due traffic/separation issues!
Sorry, this is Australia, isn't it, not Africa? ASA - heads need to roll all the way from the top.
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Oh dear as much as I miss home and detest living in a high rise flat you would be hard pressed getting me or any of the other Australians working here coming back to that rubbish.
BTW we are opening new sectors to meet traffic demand and we have nearly all of the staff to man it despite the Global Finance meltdown.
Good luck fellas I hope it is all resolved in the new year and TFN has moved on to reinvent the wheel somewhere else
BTW we are opening new sectors to meet traffic demand and we have nearly all of the staff to man it despite the Global Finance meltdown.
Good luck fellas I hope it is all resolved in the new year and TFN has moved on to reinvent the wheel somewhere else
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Looking through the Aviation Green Paper which has just been released, I noticed the following on page 62:
Interesting... I wonder if the government is expecting Airservices to alter the way it does business.
Ongoing investment in the maintenance and replacement of infrastructure and the recruitment and
retention of skilled personnel are necessary components of improved ATM.
The Government, through the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and
Local Government, outlines its priorities for Airservices in a publicly available Statement of
Expectations (Statement).
In conjunction with this Green Paper, the Government has issued a new Statement to the
Airservices Board.
The new Statement requires Airservices to focus on delivering core air traffic and aviation rescue
and fire fighting services. This is what the community and industry rightly expects Airservices to deliver best, not the pursuit of side or ancillary activities or overseas ventures.
retention of skilled personnel are necessary components of improved ATM.
The Government, through the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and
Local Government, outlines its priorities for Airservices in a publicly available Statement of
Expectations (Statement).
In conjunction with this Green Paper, the Government has issued a new Statement to the
Airservices Board.
The new Statement requires Airservices to focus on delivering core air traffic and aviation rescue
and fire fighting services. This is what the community and industry rightly expects Airservices to deliver best, not the pursuit of side or ancillary activities or overseas ventures.
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Well that will dovetail nicely with the recent tour of various overseas locations by a gent from AsA, the purpose of which was to explain to potential "customers" that AsA couldn't, in fact, deliver on any projects etc. due to a LACK OF STAFF.
Interesting customer relations management- travelling around door-to-door telling people what you can't do.
The bosses were scratching their heads, but those of us with more experience of AsA were pissing ourselves.
Interesting customer relations management- travelling around door-to-door telling people what you can't do.
The bosses were scratching their heads, but those of us with more experience of AsA were pissing ourselves.
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When will ASA wake up that their 'growing the global brand' is just a pipe dream.
After studying the last ten years worth of Annual Reports, it is a consistent fact that 95% of revenue is earned from Airways Activity from the provision of ATC and ARFF in Australia.
In the 2005 Annual Report the Chairman Nic Burton-Taylor stated
"Specifically, while we are now processing 49 per cent more aircraft movements, our prices have been reduced over the decade by more than 30 per cent in real terms."
In 97/98 total revenue was $606.9m and airways revenue $580.1m or 95.6%.
In 07/08 total revenue was $744m and airways revenue was $707.3m or 95.1%.
These percentages are consistent over the 10 years.
It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to work out that for the amount of money that ASA has spent on setting up offices, and travelling, in Dubai, China, and several other cities around the world that they haven't got much bang for their ( the airlines) buck. Correspondingly the increase in executive remuneration hasn't done much for ASA.
I would think that most of the other income over this time period would come from the usual things like Airways publications, interest, etc. They started stating figures like 2-4 million dollars revenue from OS contracts but have gone quiet in the last few years. There are no profits stated from the management of the the US towers which would indicate that there are no profits (loss?). They don't show what 'growing the global brand' costs, or what it returns.
As ASA management would be loathe to state that they got the US FAA, UK NATS, or Airways NZ in to assist them with a problem. So it could be assumed that other countries ANSP would be loathe to have it trumpeted around the world that they had to get ASA in to fix things up for them. Nationalistic egos at play, and very hard to justify your management position when you require other sovereign ANSPs in to tell you how to do things.
ANSPs don't have a problem with paying 'independent' consultants be they ex-ANSPs staff, but it is perceived as an admission of ineptitude if they need to get another sovereign ANSP in to tell them how to fix their problems. They don't do it.
The one area they could have actually MADE money would be training controllers, as Qantas have done with pilots for other airlines. Unfortunately one of the first things TFN did when he got here was streamline (gut) the training area even though he had been warned that staffing was a critical area that must be addressed. Those chooks are now coming home to roost.
When will management realise that 95% of their revenue comes from the airlines, Qantas group around the $400+ million, and Virgin around $130 million, and start looking after the airlines by staffing the place properly.
In 98 there were 9 Public Affairs officers and 1174 controllers, there are no figures in the 08 report for spin doctors but am told that Corporate Relations has 50 now.
There is a quoted figure of 971 controllers, however this seems at odds with ASAs quoted figure of 930 at the AIRC, and the 889 that they need but don't have, that I was told by a senior manager last week. It is actually less than 800 talking to aircraft.
If we take into account the increase in traffic, and the reduction in charging by the Chairman in the 05 report you have a fair idea of where ASA management has erred rather badly. Traffic has further gone up since that time.
95% of ASA income has nothing to do with any outstanding managerial skill on TFN and co's part and everything to do with the airlines growing their business. And what do the airlines and travelling public get for that?
The GM ATC has admitted that it will take AT LEAST 2 years to dig ourselves out of this hole, I think somewhat longer, and that is only if controllers bother hanging around and have any goodwill towards ASA.
After studying the last ten years worth of Annual Reports, it is a consistent fact that 95% of revenue is earned from Airways Activity from the provision of ATC and ARFF in Australia.
In the 2005 Annual Report the Chairman Nic Burton-Taylor stated
"Specifically, while we are now processing 49 per cent more aircraft movements, our prices have been reduced over the decade by more than 30 per cent in real terms."
In 97/98 total revenue was $606.9m and airways revenue $580.1m or 95.6%.
In 07/08 total revenue was $744m and airways revenue was $707.3m or 95.1%.
These percentages are consistent over the 10 years.
It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to work out that for the amount of money that ASA has spent on setting up offices, and travelling, in Dubai, China, and several other cities around the world that they haven't got much bang for their ( the airlines) buck. Correspondingly the increase in executive remuneration hasn't done much for ASA.
I would think that most of the other income over this time period would come from the usual things like Airways publications, interest, etc. They started stating figures like 2-4 million dollars revenue from OS contracts but have gone quiet in the last few years. There are no profits stated from the management of the the US towers which would indicate that there are no profits (loss?). They don't show what 'growing the global brand' costs, or what it returns.
As ASA management would be loathe to state that they got the US FAA, UK NATS, or Airways NZ in to assist them with a problem. So it could be assumed that other countries ANSP would be loathe to have it trumpeted around the world that they had to get ASA in to fix things up for them. Nationalistic egos at play, and very hard to justify your management position when you require other sovereign ANSPs in to tell you how to do things.
ANSPs don't have a problem with paying 'independent' consultants be they ex-ANSPs staff, but it is perceived as an admission of ineptitude if they need to get another sovereign ANSP in to tell them how to fix their problems. They don't do it.
The one area they could have actually MADE money would be training controllers, as Qantas have done with pilots for other airlines. Unfortunately one of the first things TFN did when he got here was streamline (gut) the training area even though he had been warned that staffing was a critical area that must be addressed. Those chooks are now coming home to roost.
When will management realise that 95% of their revenue comes from the airlines, Qantas group around the $400+ million, and Virgin around $130 million, and start looking after the airlines by staffing the place properly.
In 98 there were 9 Public Affairs officers and 1174 controllers, there are no figures in the 08 report for spin doctors but am told that Corporate Relations has 50 now.
There is a quoted figure of 971 controllers, however this seems at odds with ASAs quoted figure of 930 at the AIRC, and the 889 that they need but don't have, that I was told by a senior manager last week. It is actually less than 800 talking to aircraft.
If we take into account the increase in traffic, and the reduction in charging by the Chairman in the 05 report you have a fair idea of where ASA management has erred rather badly. Traffic has further gone up since that time.
95% of ASA income has nothing to do with any outstanding managerial skill on TFN and co's part and everything to do with the airlines growing their business. And what do the airlines and travelling public get for that?
The GM ATC has admitted that it will take AT LEAST 2 years to dig ourselves out of this hole, I think somewhat longer, and that is only if controllers bother hanging around and have any goodwill towards ASA.
Last edited by max1; 3rd Dec 2008 at 00:56.
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There could be no doubt in any persons mind that Airservices is run by a bunch of incompetent fools.
Incompetent....
1. Inadequate for or unsuited to a particular purpose or application.
2. Devoid of those qualities requisite for effective conduct or action.
Fool...
1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion.
3. One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe.
Somebody please do something!!
Incompetent....
1. Inadequate for or unsuited to a particular purpose or application.
2. Devoid of those qualities requisite for effective conduct or action.
Fool...
1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion.
3. One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe.
Somebody please do something!!
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Baileys
Hate to say it, but we reached and passed the PNR a long time ago, the problem was that not one person in management realised this fact.
Those I pass on the way out the door (to the life boats) will assume the rank of ALM (captain), this is what I suspect we will begin to witness very shortly.
Slow motion train wreck stuff.
Hate to say it, but we reached and passed the PNR a long time ago, the problem was that not one person in management realised this fact.
Those I pass on the way out the door (to the life boats) will assume the rank of ALM (captain), this is what I suspect we will begin to witness very shortly.
Slow motion train wreck stuff.