UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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Prospect are going to have to do some serious recruiting,as a lot of people here left the union
According to the 293rd BEC minutes from ATCO's.co.uk (very good site by the way fellas):
Minutes - ATCOs.co.uk
"Despite the concern that members have raised about leaving the union subject to the pension issue, only 12 members have left Prospect"
Don't plan on people leaving in droves then .......
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When they DO start phoning around the answer is NO.
Folks. Put self interest (and grubby notes) to the side and think long term - PLEASE.
It would also help if our esteemed Union officers would set an example on this and weren't the first to jump at the first chance of extra cash.
It may be within Union rules, but no-one forces you to do them - IMHO it now flies in the face of reason.
Time to play hardball - work to rule.BTW Excellent website from ATCOs Branch. A step in the right direction.
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It would also help if our esteemed Union officers would set an example on this and weren't the first to jump at the first chance of extra cash.
Very few of the reps at LACC appear to do them on a regular basis.
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Extra cash in grubby mitts
Whilst on the subject of extra cash, I received my payslip today.
Inside, as with everyone elses, was a nice very shiny advertisement for Validium, the company NATS employs to look after employees in times of need.
Why was this placed in everyones pay slips when we already know of it's existence?*
What cost to NATS was this insert?*
What extra cash gets put into the pockets of the Directors of Validium when these little cash generators are implemented?*
Is Mrs Barron still a Director of Validium?*
We have a CEO whose ethics are non existent if he ands his ilk gain. He is so low, he could walk under the belly of a rattlesnake, whilst wearing a top hat.
*One of these questions is rhetorical... guess which.
Inside, as with everyone elses, was a nice very shiny advertisement for Validium, the company NATS employs to look after employees in times of need.
Why was this placed in everyones pay slips when we already know of it's existence?*
What cost to NATS was this insert?*
What extra cash gets put into the pockets of the Directors of Validium when these little cash generators are implemented?*
Is Mrs Barron still a Director of Validium?*
We have a CEO whose ethics are non existent if he ands his ilk gain. He is so low, he could walk under the belly of a rattlesnake, whilst wearing a top hat.
*One of these questions is rhetorical... guess which.
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EasternWiseguy.....
You say I dont get it, but with one hand you seem to attack ATCO's at centres for looking after number one and how selfish we all are. On the other hand you are asking for us to help.
In my mind if someone was asking for help or support, maybe not the best idea to start slagging them off.
Just a thought.
You say I dont get it, but with one hand you seem to attack ATCO's at centres for looking after number one and how selfish we all are. On the other hand you are asking for us to help.
In my mind if someone was asking for help or support, maybe not the best idea to start slagging them off.
Just a thought.
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Sarnies....I am NOT attacking anyone. I am pointing out how doing AAVA's can work against the interests of ALL ATCO'S.
We in NSL are not asking for "help" .We are asking for ATCO's as a grade to stand united for once.
Do you get that?
We in NSL are not asking for "help" .We are asking for ATCO's as a grade to stand united for once.
Do you get that?
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fancy a wager...
In advance of any announcement this afternoon, anyone fancy a cyber-wager?
I reckon the pay deal will be as follows (it's complicated).
2.1% this year and 0.9% next year. However next years pay rise will be subject to the Aug 09 RPI. If the Aug 09 RPI is minus 2% or less, no pay rise in Jan 2010
That's my guess, anyone fancy a go? Nearest to the proposed deal gets a virual cup of 'Costa Coffee' (you will have to wait for it to arrive at Swanwick first though).
I reckon the pay deal will be as follows (it's complicated).
2.1% this year and 0.9% next year. However next years pay rise will be subject to the Aug 09 RPI. If the Aug 09 RPI is minus 2% or less, no pay rise in Jan 2010
That's my guess, anyone fancy a go? Nearest to the proposed deal gets a virual cup of 'Costa Coffee' (you will have to wait for it to arrive at Swanwick first though).
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It's up.
2% this year and then next year, if RPI is better than -2.8%, we get 0.1% for every 0.1% it is better than the-2.8% figure.....up to a max of 1%.
Make your own minds up....I'm pretty disgusted at it. After a year of negotiation we are taking AT LEAST a paycut of 1.8% in real terms.
2% this year and then next year, if RPI is better than -2.8%, we get 0.1% for every 0.1% it is better than the-2.8% figure.....up to a max of 1%.
Make your own minds up....I'm pretty disgusted at it. After a year of negotiation we are taking AT LEAST a paycut of 1.8% in real terms.
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A one year pay deal?
Mr777, I think you have read it wrong.
We get 2% this year, backdated to Jan 09. Come August when the RPI is announced, we may get up to an extra 1% backdated to Jan 09, if the RPI is -1.8% or better. That pay rise is to see us through to the end of Dec 2010.
No rise in Jan 2010.
I've just just a quick read through so far but it seems to me as if it is a one year pay deal, but applicable for two years i.e. from Jan 2009 to end 2010.
in otherwords, we will get a payrise backdated to Jan 2009 (as we should), and that will be enhanced if Aug 09 RPI is greater than -2.8%.
No pay rise in Jan 2010.
How the hell can we negotiate not to even think about a pay rise in Jan 2010 based on figures we don't even know yet?
Not good enough for that one reason above all others.
in a nutshell from the ATCOS.co.uk website
Well, the union got have got that haven't they - a one year deal stretched over 24 months 
So concerned they gave away millions in dividends to the very customers they are claiming they are concerned they cannot levy full charges on...
Robust, miffed or slightly peeved?
On top of that, we won't even see it until August... that's the Jan 09 payrise we are talking about, 7 months late. A record even for our union and management.
Go on, vote yes - really prove to our management and our unions that we will accept a shafting over everything and that the recent motions agreed in the SDC are not worth the paper they are written on.
We get 2% this year, backdated to Jan 09. Come August when the RPI is announced, we may get up to an extra 1% backdated to Jan 09, if the RPI is -1.8% or better. That pay rise is to see us through to the end of Dec 2010.
No rise in Jan 2010.
I've just just a quick read through so far but it seems to me as if it is a one year pay deal, but applicable for two years i.e. from Jan 2009 to end 2010.
in otherwords, we will get a payrise backdated to Jan 2009 (as we should), and that will be enhanced if Aug 09 RPI is greater than -2.8%.
No pay rise in Jan 2010.
How the hell can we negotiate not to even think about a pay rise in Jan 2010 based on figures we don't even know yet?
Not good enough for that one reason above all others.
in a nutshell from the ATCOS.co.uk website
A consolidated and pensionable increase to pay and pay related allowances for all negotiated grades of 2% backdated to 1 January 2009 for a period to the end of 2010.
If August RPI in 2009 is less negative than –2.8% staff will receive a backdated increase for every 0.1% by which RPI is more favourable up to a maximum of an additional 1%.
In effect this makes it possible for a maximum pay increase at 1 January 2009 of 3%.
It is a condition of the deal that should RPI prove to be as or more negative than -3.5% in August 2009 that NATS and the NTUS will enter into early discussions to seek to address this issue.
If August RPI in 2009 is less negative than –2.8% staff will receive a backdated increase for every 0.1% by which RPI is more favourable up to a maximum of an additional 1%.
In effect this makes it possible for a maximum pay increase at 1 January 2009 of 3%.
It is a condition of the deal that should RPI prove to be as or more negative than -3.5% in August 2009 that NATS and the NTUS will enter into early discussions to seek to address this issue.
Whilst the trade unions had submitted a pay claim in September of last year based on the notion of a one year pay deal it became apparent during negotiations that management would only table a consolidated and pensionable pay increase which might be seen as acceptable by us on the basis that it was a two year pay deal taking us through to the end of 2010.
Against that backdrop NATS management have raised their severe concerns as to the impact that this will have on prices and income. They have described to the trade unions what they see as a double whammy with the impact of reduced flight volumes and at the same time a reduction in the costs that they are able to charge customers
Whilst the trade unions have been robust in our response...
On top of that, we won't even see it until August... that's the Jan 09 payrise we are talking about, 7 months late. A record even for our union and management.
Go on, vote yes - really prove to our management and our unions that we will accept a shafting over everything and that the recent motions agreed in the SDC are not worth the paper they are written on.
Last edited by anotherthing; 30th Apr 2009 at 11:33.
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777,
I sympathise to a degree with you, but over 2 years it's probably going to ensure that our salary stays roughly aligned with the cost of living. From what the Union says in the web article, it sounds like the Company were trying to hit us big time with degradation of T&Cs and an even lower percentage rise if not pay freeze. With 2.1 million unemployed I think it's an acceptable deal.
Regards, ADIS
I sympathise to a degree with you, but over 2 years it's probably going to ensure that our salary stays roughly aligned with the cost of living. From what the Union says in the web article, it sounds like the Company were trying to hit us big time with degradation of T&Cs and an even lower percentage rise if not pay freeze. With 2.1 million unemployed I think it's an acceptable deal.
Regards, ADIS
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Anotherthing..
Thank you for correcting me...having re-read it, you're absolutely right.
And I agree on your final point too.
ADIS..
I take your points on board about the unemployment rate and the economic situation...so do you think a 9% payrise fair? This may still be only a rumour but I see that nobody has refuted it, not least the Big Man himself.
Also, I have just added the figures up quickly, and the proposed rise does not come close,on a monthly basis, to meeting the increases that I have had this year in my gas/electric/water bills...council tax...food and fuel prices.
Thank you for correcting me...having re-read it, you're absolutely right.
And I agree on your final point too.
ADIS..
I take your points on board about the unemployment rate and the economic situation...so do you think a 9% payrise fair? This may still be only a rumour but I see that nobody has refuted it, not least the Big Man himself.
Also, I have just added the figures up quickly, and the proposed rise does not come close,on a monthly basis, to meeting the increases that I have had this year in my gas/electric/water bills...council tax...food and fuel prices.
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I dont even know why we are even bothering to ballot. It will get voted in. Now we just have to wait until the August pay to get the money. I think the whole pay rise talks have been a waste of time. Ever since we lost the pension vote, management have us in their pockets. They have probably been stringing the union along these last few months getting a bit of interest on our backpay. They could have given us a pay freeze and it would have been voted in.
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You're right...it WILL get voted in. After the apathy over the pension, this is a dead cert for getting accepted. I'm still voting no, for all the good it'll do
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Bear in mind that this deal is not finalised, even if we accept it, until the August RPI is in.
If the Aug RPI is less than -3.5% (more negative), then the union have agreed to speak to management i.e. the 2% will be under threat.
So, a pay rise that should be based on last years RPI will be reneged if this years RPI is less than -3.5%.
Who is silly enough to give that remit to management by voting yes?
9%+ for Barron, £millions in dividends, but a poor pay rise, possibly getting poorer, because NATS is worried about cash flow. Anyone who thinks management are being fair and 'working together' need their head examined.
If the Aug RPI is less than -3.5% (more negative), then the union have agreed to speak to management i.e. the 2% will be under threat.
So, a pay rise that should be based on last years RPI will be reneged if this years RPI is less than -3.5%.
Who is silly enough to give that remit to management by voting yes?
9%+ for Barron, £millions in dividends, but a poor pay rise, possibly getting poorer, because NATS is worried about cash flow. Anyone who thinks management are being fair and 'working together' need their head examined.
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IF we had got 3%, backdated to Jan 2009, and with no restrictions, I would have been satisfied (just) with this, even with it covering the time period to December 2009.
What I am definitely NOT happy with is the fact that Barron is getting 9%. Exactly how can this be justified in the current climate? He say's one thing to the work force and does something totally different.
The divident situation is also absolute crap. As far as I am aware the divident payout was not obligatory. Yes I know that the Airline Group have hardly had no return since PPP, but if the boot was on the other foot I bet they wouldnt be giving US a dividend in the currenct economic climate! £30 million into the Pension fund and £20 million into our pay rise seems to be a much better way of using those funds.
What are the odds that within the year management will be crying foul again over the state of the pension and wanting another change to it even though there was this dividend money that could have been put into it? Will the membership as a whole just turn over and take it up the arse like last time? Answers on a postcard.....
Like has been previously said, this pay "rise" will get voted in unfortunately....
What I am definitely NOT happy with is the fact that Barron is getting 9%. Exactly how can this be justified in the current climate? He say's one thing to the work force and does something totally different.
The divident situation is also absolute crap. As far as I am aware the divident payout was not obligatory. Yes I know that the Airline Group have hardly had no return since PPP, but if the boot was on the other foot I bet they wouldnt be giving US a dividend in the currenct economic climate! £30 million into the Pension fund and £20 million into our pay rise seems to be a much better way of using those funds.
What are the odds that within the year management will be crying foul again over the state of the pension and wanting another change to it even though there was this dividend money that could have been put into it? Will the membership as a whole just turn over and take it up the arse like last time? Answers on a postcard.....
Like has been previously said, this pay "rise" will get voted in unfortunately....
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If the quantitative easing doesn't work, then the RPI forecast for Aug 09 below will be worse 
However if the green shoots start to appear we might be in luck
However if the green shoots start to appear we might be in luck
Last edited by Vote NO; 1st May 2009 at 10:13.
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I dont even know why we are even bothering to ballot. It will get voted in. Now we just have to wait until the August pay to get the money. I think the whole pay rise talks have been a waste of time. Ever since we lost the pension vote, management have us in their pockets. They have probably been stringing the union along these last few months getting a bit of interest on our backpay. They could have given us a pay freeze and it would have been voted in.
I will be voting yes i think.
Nats should have put the 45 million dividend into shares of tamiflu or surgical masks instead of dishing it out ot the airlines.