UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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Mr 777
I'm a TC ATCO - I'm also quite cynical, especially after the pension vote. I personally can't get worked up with how people voted, it is their right to vote either way, even though the vote went against my wishes. What gripped my sh!tter was the fact that 30% didn't vote.
I would hope that people realised that screwing NSL would be the next step to degrading LAC/LL Ts&Cs. If they do, then the chances of them supporting NSL are greater.
Those within LAC/LL who think that what happens to NSL will not concern them will be the architects of their own downfall.
I'm a TC ATCO - I'm also quite cynical, especially after the pension vote. I personally can't get worked up with how people voted, it is their right to vote either way, even though the vote went against my wishes. What gripped my sh!tter was the fact that 30% didn't vote.
I would hope that people realised that screwing NSL would be the next step to degrading LAC/LL Ts&Cs. If they do, then the chances of them supporting NSL are greater.
Those within LAC/LL who think that what happens to NSL will not concern them will be the architects of their own downfall.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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I posted last week along the lines of 'if NSL falls, the rest of you will be next'. Some people didn't seem to agree.
It was heartening to find that at the SDC, the Centre Reps were thinking along the same lines and they have a job on their hands convincing some of their members otherwise. I can only hope they succeed.
The company will try to pick us off group by group, weakest first (which is unfortunately us on the Airports side), then next weakest and so on until they have everyone buttoned down. Any sort of pack mentality will only work if we stand together now. Displaying a pack mentality in smaller groups ie TC/AC/ScOACC thinking 'sod the rest, we'll just defend our own position', shows that the company has won because it's easier for them if we divide ourselves up into smaller groups without them having to lift a finger.
It was heartening to find that at the SDC, the Centre Reps were thinking along the same lines and they have a job on their hands convincing some of their members otherwise. I can only hope they succeed.
The company will try to pick us off group by group, weakest first (which is unfortunately us on the Airports side), then next weakest and so on until they have everyone buttoned down. Any sort of pack mentality will only work if we stand together now. Displaying a pack mentality in smaller groups ie TC/AC/ScOACC thinking 'sod the rest, we'll just defend our own position', shows that the company has won because it's easier for them if we divide ourselves up into smaller groups without them having to lift a finger.
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I would hope that people realised that screwing NSL would be the next step to degrading LAC/LL Ts&Cs. If they do, then the chances of them supporting NSL are greater.
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Ayrprox, I felt just as angry about the way the pension was handled as you and hundreds of others were. Why should this be different? Wellm partly because of the pension ballsup I signed up to be a rep and I was at the SDC. And what happened at SDC was pretty awesome.
The unity and resolve was incredible and really encouraging. Support from the centres was total.
"One NATS, one ATCO" is very much alive and well. And here is - at last - the stomach for a fight, right to the very top of Prospect.
Make no mistakes, the BEC KNOW that they cannot play fast and loose with agreed branch policy. That was the whole reason for the SDC, they needed to know what the members wanted them to do. The clear message is that members are not prepared to give way any more, this is the line in the sand.
The task now is for the unit reps to go back and spread the word: Prospect members need to realise that industrial action is a now real consideration. Who is ACTUALLY prepared to man the barricades? Because if NATS Airports try to force things through or try sneak things in by the back door, the BEC has been told to make an immediate response. Hopefully it won't come to that: the support from the centres is vital in that, I don't believe the airports could fight this off alone. That support might be enough to make them forget the whole thing.
Anotherthing, you are bang on: 30% apathy. Heart-breaking.
mr.777, when PB, LH and the rest of the stooges found out what had been agreed at the SDC they probably had "a bit of a shock". And they couldn't wait to find out: a meeting was arranged for the day after SDC ended. I really believe that any initiative they thought they had will now have evaporated.
Have faith in the BEC: Prospect has not been this unified or determined for a LONG time.
We have good reason to be optimistic. I really can't wait to see what happens next. 
E/E6
The unity and resolve was incredible and really encouraging. Support from the centres was total.
"One NATS, one ATCO" is very much alive and well. And here is - at last - the stomach for a fight, right to the very top of Prospect.Make no mistakes, the BEC KNOW that they cannot play fast and loose with agreed branch policy. That was the whole reason for the SDC, they needed to know what the members wanted them to do. The clear message is that members are not prepared to give way any more, this is the line in the sand.
The task now is for the unit reps to go back and spread the word: Prospect members need to realise that industrial action is a now real consideration. Who is ACTUALLY prepared to man the barricades? Because if NATS Airports try to force things through or try sneak things in by the back door, the BEC has been told to make an immediate response. Hopefully it won't come to that: the support from the centres is vital in that, I don't believe the airports could fight this off alone. That support might be enough to make them forget the whole thing.
Anotherthing, you are bang on: 30% apathy. Heart-breaking.
mr.777, when PB, LH and the rest of the stooges found out what had been agreed at the SDC they probably had "a bit of a shock". And they couldn't wait to find out: a meeting was arranged for the day after SDC ended. I really believe that any initiative they thought they had will now have evaporated.
Have faith in the BEC: Prospect has not been this unified or determined for a LONG time.
We have good reason to be optimistic. I really can't wait to see what happens next. E/E6
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I too was at the SDC as an Airport Rep. The sense of unity was truly awesome and I feel we will eventually look back on this day and say it was the day the Branch grew the pair of balls that many of the members have been asking for.
Anotherthing/Mr777 etc. You know the score, your reps need your help to convince those that still have their heads buried in the sand that this is coming at them as wel,l and unless they stand up tall it's going to hit them right in the backside.
Finally, to our colleagues outside NATS,this affects you as well. Our management claim that they are uncompetative in the airports market and plan to cut our T&Cs to make us, in their opinion, less so. The only effect this will have is to give your management an excuse to cut your T&Cs to maintain their market position. Net result all UK ATCOs in a worse position.
Anotherthing/Mr777 etc. You know the score, your reps need your help to convince those that still have their heads buried in the sand that this is coming at them as wel,l and unless they stand up tall it's going to hit them right in the backside.
Finally, to our colleagues outside NATS,this affects you as well. Our management claim that they are uncompetative in the airports market and plan to cut our T&Cs to make us, in their opinion, less so. The only effect this will have is to give your management an excuse to cut your T&Cs to maintain their market position. Net result all UK ATCOs in a worse position.
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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I too was at the SDC as an Airport Rep. The sense of unity was truly awesome and I feel we will eventually look back on this day and say it was the day the Branch grew the pair of balls that many of the members have been asking for.
That said, this is another battle, another fight. It's now time to make that stand as a united workforce and send Barron and his cronies home to think again. They are systematically raping and ruining our company, whilst making sure they get their share of spoils from the trough at the expense of everyone else. They symbolise all that is wrong with the UK (and NATS), where greed, incompetence, and double dealing bring rewards. And they'll clean us out and leave with their piles of money, leaving behind a poor and demoralised staff to pick up the pieces and pay for their mistakes and mistruths.
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And they'll clean us out and leave with their piles of money, leaving behind a poor and demoralised staff to pick up the pieces and pay for their mistakes and mistruths.
The fact that people can't even be bothered to vote is pathetic.
There are many things wrong with this company at the moment, many of which have been agreed upon in the past without thinking about the consequences and/or thinking about yourself individually. I don't see that changing anytime soon, despite promises of nats unity etc etc.
I doubt anything will come of this "awesome" prospect unity.
I would like to be proved wrong.
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thinking about the consequences and/or thinking about yourself individually
Now that is hilarious coming from mr AAVA! You won't be proved wrong, as long as there are the money grabbers out there willing to do AAVAs your prophecy is self-fulfilling.
Now excuse me while I go out in the rain and work on my heart disease.
Now that is hilarious coming from mr AAVA! You won't be proved wrong, as long as there are the money grabbers out there willing to do AAVAs your prophecy is self-fulfilling.
Now excuse me while I go out in the rain and work on my heart disease.
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I was thinking more about the vote that went through to screw all trainees over so that top of the scale could get an extra few quid. way to look after your weakest member.
I think that heart disease has spread to your head. don't forget your band 4 brolly when you go out.
I think that heart disease has spread to your head. don't forget your band 4 brolly when you go out.
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When you understand what integrity means, let me know.
Your talk of banding sounds like boasting to me, along with your bragging about validating at first attempt you are coming across as a bit of a ****. I've no doubt that is exactly what you are.
Your talk of banding sounds like boasting to me, along with your bragging about validating at first attempt you are coming across as a bit of a ****. I've no doubt that is exactly what you are.
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Your talk of banding sounds like boasting to me,
And there we have it. The divisions in NATS are huge, beautifully engineered by Barron.
I recall when it was IPMS (yes I mean IPMS) policy to NOT do overtime. AAVA's(overtime at a piss poor rate) are the oil that Barron needs to keep his empire running.As long as the guys at the centres keep doing them he will point to it and say"system works"
We are split from top to bottom.....the airports WILL be shafted...Prospect have grown balls?.....yeah and my powder is STILL dry.....roll on retirement
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Why only the guys and girls at centres getting the flack for AAVA's?
Heathrow tower the last time i checked were being offered them from the resource office in the form of wheeling them in in a wheelbarrow.
Until the union lead from the front AAVA's will continue to be fulfilled by someone.
It's the general shortsightedness of some that seem to also screw us all over in the long term, when will these people stand back and at least attempt to see the biger picture.
ATCO's need to all stick together, I have plenty of friends in NSL and will happily stand on a picket line if they are to be bent over by barron and his team of muppets.
Heathrow tower the last time i checked were being offered them from the resource office in the form of wheeling them in in a wheelbarrow.
Until the union lead from the front AAVA's will continue to be fulfilled by someone.
It's the general shortsightedness of some that seem to also screw us all over in the long term, when will these people stand back and at least attempt to see the biger picture.
ATCO's need to all stick together, I have plenty of friends in NSL and will happily stand on a picket line if they are to be bent over by barron and his team of muppets.
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for a minute there i thought peace and solidarity broke out. Listen folks, enough already. We're all in the plop together. United we stand...
Re: AAVAs - next pay meeting, management don't play ball? - PULL OUT OF THE AAVA agreement - It may just be the shot across the bow that PB and his cronies need! Until then, those who want/need to to AAVAs, it's your choice. Ditto those who don't.
Re: AAVAs - next pay meeting, management don't play ball? - PULL OUT OF THE AAVA agreement - It may just be the shot across the bow that PB and his cronies need! Until then, those who want/need to to AAVAs, it's your choice. Ditto those who don't.
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United we stand..eh.
Prospect are going to have to do some serious recruiting,as a lot of people here left the union.Reason the disgusting treatment of lower band units,to line the pocket of the Band 5 ''stars''.
The AVAAs are a way to claw back some of the £ 25K pay difference.The Union do not have the guts to stand up to management,so at the lower band units we will just have to accept what will happen.The Union will not help us,as they have haven't helped us in the last 17 years.What comes around goes around though,as there are other very subtle ways of throwing spanners in the works.
Prospect are going to have to do some serious recruiting,as a lot of people here left the union.Reason the disgusting treatment of lower band units,to line the pocket of the Band 5 ''stars''.
The AVAAs are a way to claw back some of the £ 25K pay difference.The Union do not have the guts to stand up to management,so at the lower band units we will just have to accept what will happen.The Union will not help us,as they have haven't helped us in the last 17 years.What comes around goes around though,as there are other very subtle ways of throwing spanners in the works.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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No more AAVAs!? Well we're doing our bit down 'ere in Ciderset. Ain't gonna see one of they buggers round these parts. Any chance someone could rustle a few up, give them a map and send them round to see us?
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Originally Posted by privatesandwiches
Have all the clout? I Havent been offered an AAVA this year
Maybe in the summer they will dust off the AAVA phonebook.
Maybe in the summer they will dust off the AAVA phonebook.
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Maybe in the summer they will dust off the AAVA phonebook
You don't get it.......
When they DO start phoning around the answer is NO.
Of course the centres have the clout. Sure we can close Aberdeen /Bristol/Belfast for a morning...will NATS give a stuff? NO.
Close UK airspace for a morning or two......Mondays would be nice, and the howl from Barron would be considerable.
Thats what NSL would consider standing together.