UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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Disillusioned
The final derisory offer still has to be taken to the ATSA and ATCE branch for final acceptance, before it hits the street with the inevitable 'recommendation to accept'
Then is has to go to ballot so don't expect a result till end of May. If it is a yes vote, then expect a few weeks to sort out the backpay - looking at July or Aug paypackets before it takes effect.
The final derisory offer still has to be taken to the ATSA and ATCE branch for final acceptance, before it hits the street with the inevitable 'recommendation to accept'
Then is has to go to ballot so don't expect a result till end of May. If it is a yes vote, then expect a few weeks to sort out the backpay - looking at July or Aug paypackets before it takes effect.
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According to the new ATCOS site, the offer was/is going to be presented to the BEC by the 22nd (I assume in time for the SDC). I just thought that someone might actually know what the offer was by now.
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Was just going on the info passed to me by a couple of tame reps. 'Twas them that mentioned the timescale for payment as well. Allegedly NATS are drafting in a specialist company to sort out backpayment because it is too complicated for our legion of accountants, what with SMART pensions etc.
So that'll be another consultancy fee that could've been avoided... wonder if Mrs PB has an interest in that company as well as the fimbles agency...
So that'll be another consultancy fee that could've been avoided... wonder if Mrs PB has an interest in that company as well as the fimbles agency...
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Seen on another thread ..thought it quite apt
"Too many people (management and lackies) have their hands in the pie while the operational staff have to live off the crust"!!
"Too many people (management and lackies) have their hands in the pie while the operational staff have to live off the crust"!!
Last edited by kats-I; 21st Apr 2009 at 18:35.
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Even the £3.5 million would have given us something..its a drop in the ocean to the airlines..greedy piggies could have made do with 40 million surely??
For "piggies" read Barstewards.
For "piggies" read Barstewards.
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£6,000,000 would give all NATS staff a 3% payrise 
Still I suppose the £43.5 million will help BA and Virgin, part of the elite Airline Group and major NATS shareholders, since they were fined £338 million for fixing fuel surcharge prices and their managers are in jail.
But we must not talk about such things Paul
, must we ?? It is not good for the business, poor BA had to set aside £350 million.........crooked gits
"The Times added that the settlement brings BA's total payout for conspiring to fix fuel surcharges to 338 million pounds -- 12 million short of the total set aside for such penalties. UPDATE 1-BA, Virgin settle U.S. fuel surcharge claims | Reuters
BA therefore have 12 million more than they thought and still they rob us
Me thinks this once great company I was proud to work for is going down the toilet fast.............
Still I suppose the £43.5 million will help BA and Virgin, part of the elite Airline Group and major NATS shareholders, since they were fined £338 million for fixing fuel surcharge prices and their managers are in jail
.But we must not talk about such things Paul
, must we ?? It is not good for the business, poor BA had to set aside £350 million.........crooked gits"The Times added that the settlement brings BA's total payout for conspiring to fix fuel surcharges to 338 million pounds -- 12 million short of the total set aside for such penalties. UPDATE 1-BA, Virgin settle U.S. fuel surcharge claims | Reuters
BA therefore have 12 million more than they thought and still they rob us
Me thinks this once great company I was proud to work for is going down the toilet fast.............
NATS
Last edited by Vote NO; 22nd Apr 2009 at 08:20.
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Personally I was shocked at PB's recent announcement via the intranet.
Aggressive, paranoid and far from conciliatory (in my opinion)?
I hope this was published after our unions had got to him last week over the pay negotiations? RPI minus -3.5 this coming August? Mystic Meg now working for PB?
I was seriously shocked at PB's tone, we are now witnessing his uglier side, so get in there 'our unions', expose this manipulator.
Hats off to PB, whoever is running his 'show' up until recently' has put on a good sham. Sadly for his PR team, the aggressive words within his recent intranet broadcast revealed his inner thoughts!
We all work hard, so why give away nearly £50 million to bale out BA and Virgin for their gross errors?
Sadly PB is just another puppet with someone else's hand up his @***, controlling his words!
Would I consider industrial action?
Too damned right I would! I work within a company with an open and just reporting culture.....only that does not include certain folk whom I describe as manipulators!
PB 9%
PCG Bonus
£50m Airline Group
Staff Nothing
THAT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!
If NATS wish to give away £50m, SUPERB, but don't exclude staff from NATS success please! After all, we all earned it for PB to give away!
Aggressive, paranoid and far from conciliatory (in my opinion)?
I hope this was published after our unions had got to him last week over the pay negotiations? RPI minus -3.5 this coming August? Mystic Meg now working for PB?
I was seriously shocked at PB's tone, we are now witnessing his uglier side, so get in there 'our unions', expose this manipulator.
Hats off to PB, whoever is running his 'show' up until recently' has put on a good sham. Sadly for his PR team, the aggressive words within his recent intranet broadcast revealed his inner thoughts!
We all work hard, so why give away nearly £50 million to bale out BA and Virgin for their gross errors?
Sadly PB is just another puppet with someone else's hand up his @***, controlling his words!
Would I consider industrial action?
Too damned right I would! I work within a company with an open and just reporting culture.....only that does not include certain folk whom I describe as manipulators!
PB 9%
PCG Bonus
£50m Airline Group
Staff Nothing
THAT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!
If NATS wish to give away £50m, SUPERB, but don't exclude staff from NATS success please! After all, we all earned it for PB to give away!
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£50m Airline Group
Staff Nothing
Staff Nothing
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Two points
First if I had to guess which of the shareholders wanted a dividend to be paid my money wouldn't necessarily be on the Airline Group. Second the staff are getting something so aren't being excluded.
First if I had to guess which of the shareholders wanted a dividend to be paid my money wouldn't necessarily be on the Airline Group. Second the staff are getting something so aren't being excluded.
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eglynt
Oddly enough,£18,27 Million would give all NATS staff a 9% payrise, which is the same as PB by all accounts? Yes, they are entitled to dividends but all major companies have been warned not to pay out these dividends if their Pension scheme is "causing difficulties".
Frankly sir, you are trying to defend the indefensible
No wonder people get angry. NATS management listen to the pensions regulator only when it suits them. They screw down our pension whilst at the same time fork out squillions to shareholders
BBC NEWS | Business | Pension fund deficits at new high
I think your figures are a little inaccurate. If the total dividend payment is £43.5 Million then the Airline Group's share will be £18.27 Million. The staff will get up to £2.175 Million (it's not clear how many staff are still shareholders or what happens to the dividend due on the shares currently held by the trust). Gordon Brown will walk off with £21.35 Million and BAA will get £1.74 Million.
Frankly sir, you are trying to defend the indefensible
No wonder people get angry. NATS management listen to the pensions regulator only when it suits them. They screw down our pension whilst at the same time fork out squillions to shareholders
Last month, the Pensions Regulator warned companies not to keep on paying dividends to their shareholders if they thought they were having trouble affording the required level of pension contributions.
Last edited by Vote NO; 22nd Apr 2009 at 08:32.
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Yes, they are entitled to dividends but all major companies have been warned not to pay out these dividends if their Pension scheme is "causing difficulties".
sometimes you do wonder what agenda the likes of eglnyt have
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So far I haven't seen anything to suggest that NATS is not intending to honour its pension liabilities. If it can fund the pension at 30% as it intends to do and pay the dividend then the pension regulator's warning is irrelevant.
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Of course paying 30% is hard, that's well beyond the point at which most companies have pulled the plug on their pension schemes. However the pension regulator was warning that companies couldn't pay dividends and then claim that they couldn't afford to meet their pension obligations. So far there is nothing to suggest that NATS won't be able to pay the pension so it's entitled to pay the dividend.
There is a step between being hard to pay the pension and impossible to pay. Of course NATS management doesn't want to pay 30% and will moan about it at every opportunity but I hope there is a big gap between when they start moaning and when they stop paying because that latter point is not good for any of us.
There is a step between being hard to pay the pension and impossible to pay. Of course NATS management doesn't want to pay 30% and will moan about it at every opportunity but I hope there is a big gap between when they start moaning and when they stop paying because that latter point is not good for any of us.
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Eglnyt - two points to suggest that the pension scheme is 'causing difficulties'. 1) They have tried - and unfortunately succeeded - in closing down the DB scheme, and 2) the funding level is now at 72%. I know that its not a tri-ennial evaluation, and i also know that its not too surprising given the economic state and that the funding level will rise up again quickly in the next 3 or 4 years. I would have thought that it would make perfect sense to pay the dividend amount into the pension scheme given the warning by the pensions regulator - especially as this a) keeps the money within the company, and b) will slightly lessen the requirement for the companies own pension contributions in the future.
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It really should not be a difficult concept to grasp, either for management lackies or thebiggest dissenter.
NATS management are constantly saying that NATS are going to have a tough financial year ahead.
They are constantly saying that it is going to be a challenge to meet pension payments.
Yet they are willing to give away £45M just like that when the money could be kept 'for a rainy day'.
Prudence and basic common sense says keep the money within the company, if the statements of upcoming financial difficulty constantly being trotted out are true.
One gets the impression that NATS management are very much of the attitude that at the moment they can 'have their cake and eat it'... unfortunately in the process of their cake-fest they leave their loyal workforce with mere crumbs.
NATS management are constantly saying that NATS are going to have a tough financial year ahead.
They are constantly saying that it is going to be a challenge to meet pension payments.
Yet they are willing to give away £45M just like that when the money could be kept 'for a rainy day'.
Prudence and basic common sense says keep the money within the company, if the statements of upcoming financial difficulty constantly being trotted out are true.
One gets the impression that NATS management are very much of the attitude that at the moment they can 'have their cake and eat it'... unfortunately in the process of their cake-fest they leave their loyal workforce with mere crumbs.
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eglnyt
I hope you didnt hurt your back too much when you fell off the fence..wrong side as well by sounds of it!! Oh. have you still got Bupa to pay for it?
As a lot of sound thinking folks have said any monies that were available should have gone into the pension and towards a decent payrise for those that made most of the money for the company..let the airlines find the money for their mistakes elsewhere. We were not the ones telling them to con the public out of money.!! If we have to pay an extra few quid to go on hols then so be it! They could have it back from payrise.
I hope you didnt hurt your back too much when you fell off the fence..wrong side as well by sounds of it!! Oh. have you still got Bupa to pay for it?
As a lot of sound thinking folks have said any monies that were available should have gone into the pension and towards a decent payrise for those that made most of the money for the company..let the airlines find the money for their mistakes elsewhere. We were not the ones telling them to con the public out of money.!! If we have to pay an extra few quid to go on hols then so be it! They could have it back from payrise.
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Quite true, and because of that, it still baffles me as to why so many people do so many extra jobs for NATS, that aren't part of their job description, for nothing.
All that ends up doing is lining PB's and shareholders pockets, and the thanks these volunteers get...a pay cut or a P45.
All that ends up doing is lining PB's and shareholders pockets, and the thanks these volunteers get...a pay cut or a P45.