Manchester-2

[GLAEDI]

I appreciate MANCHESTER doesn't exactly run like a well oiled machine but i am puzzled that when securty issues re queues manidest st MANCHESTER its MAGs fault.

At Heathrow yesterday it was a shambles and IAG wasted no time in screaming blue murder that it was a Border Force problem. they got there pointacross via a headline in The Telegraph.

What is up with Manchester PR that they are so timid ?

Security is MAG employees, they control the number of security lanes, number of security staff and how many are for priority lanes or Joe Public. At other airports the security can either be done by the Airport Authority or Private Security like G4S. Border Force & the Police have nothing to do with the routine security searches of passengers and their cabin baggage. They’ll only become involved if the Security staff believe a crime has or is being committed.

Border Force & Police are Law Enforcement, Border Force are responsible the passport control queues. 99% of the time this is arrivals but during heightened security (ie after a terrorist event) Embarks will be reinforced and queues will develop after security when they conduct controls. Staffing numbers can drastically reduce for passport checks when Border Force make arrests or detain for Immigration crime, Drug Seizures or Detention of wanted criminals. This will reduce the numbers available for the control and queues will increase but I’m sure most people are willing to wait while they deal with a person with drugs concealed within their bodies or remove a person on a false passport.

Both the Police and BF will conduct checks on Common Travel Area on Intelligence basis, again most people are ok with a longer wait so that Law Enforcement can do their checks.

[MANFOD]

I'm sure some senior managers at MAN do read this forum and may even post. The messages relayed, especially by regular flyers through the airport, may well be more effective than contacting customer relations. The stories in the M.E.N., even if not totally accurate or complete, are hardly pleasant reading and will have made some impact.

However, without fuller information as to what is causing the problems, it's difficult to assess from outside how quickly they can be addressed and resolved. If it's the infrastructure in T1 and T3 which limits the space in which more security channels and equipment can be introduced, is that an easy fix? On the other hand, if existing security lines are not fully in use due to staff shortages, is it straightforward to bring in additional trained staff at short notice? Maybe, maybe not. Is the processing time for each passenger too long? If so, why? Are too many bags being referred for a hand check and second scan?

Nevertheless, it is difficult not to conclude that MAN waited rather too long after the financial crash when traffic numbers were increasing strongly before formulating plans for modernisation. If T1 is likely to remain until 2022, then some measures are urgently required unless some throughput can
be transferred to T2 sooner than was initially planned, assuming facilities there as the TP progresses can cope.

[tb10er]

OK, it has it's faults, but, take a look at CDG. By comparison, MAN is excellent in comparison.

Stop knocking it and start using it.

[Curious Pax]

If you check the MAN jobs pages there is always an ad there for security staff, which is probably not unrelated to the recent points in this thread. I would surmise that they either have a problem with staff turnover, or getting people in in the first place.

[FFMAN]

FFMAN
.Perhaps there should be a business lane for you at all airports so that you can
concentrate on your work and bring in more deals without being distracted or irritated?

Oh tut tut Mickeyman. To use a topical analogy: play the ball not the man. But thanks for proving my point. I don't want any special treatment - this debate is nothing to do with that - I want equal treatment - equal treatment with security processing at other comparable airports. I don't want to be treated like a piece of doggie doo just because I'm unlucky enough to have MAN as my 'home airport'.

There are so many people in denial about these very real issues. The real beneficiaries of recent growth are senior managers and plane spotters (the latter of which I can believe are well represented on this forum so are naturally inclined to defend everything about the airport - and they're entitled to do that of course). The truth is that MAN's security experience is much worse than much bigger airports.

As well as lack of staff, the security system itself is partly the problem. Instead of the old system where one person is processed at a time (in / out and gone) the system of having your search belongings separated slows things down dramatically. Here's what happens: you arrive at a loading point - you are one of four at each station. The other three are your 'competitors' . You pick a tray, load it and then wait for a gap to put it on the belt. And wait.... because the belt has stopped loading (see later). This slows you down because you can't pick up another tray until the previous one can be pushed through. So you wait some more. I would guess that the average number of trays per pax is three so multiply that delay by three.
Also at this point the insistence on putting carry on bags into a tray is just nonsense - I have noticed a number of foreign airports have tried this and now stopped it - Dublin being the most recent.
So through the actual body scan - no problems there. Now to the other delay at the other end. Since your three trays have been loaded separately at the front end, they come out with other people's trays mixed among them. Your first tray may be three trays in front of the second and so on. I have been counting this recently to prove my point. My last time through T1 Security A - my third tray came 16 trays after the second one (although I accept that was extreme). So again you wait. If just one tray of the average three is redirected for a manual search, the other two often remain on the belt until the search is done.This causes the belt at the delivery end to back up, causing it to stop and stopping the front belt - therefore causing further delays at the front end (see earlier).

The single loading system used at Frankfurt works properly since none of the above problems occur - you load all your trays sequentially - the result being there are rarely any security queues at an airport almost 3 time the size of MAN. Average wait at FRA is less than 5 mins I would say.

I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

There's a huge irony I have found in my over-traveling in recent years.
Airline people have experience of multiple airports, as do their crews and customers, this allows a balanced judgement. Airport managers don't travel nearly as much, (why would they?) or if they do, they're not paying attention.
Airports are, ironically, fundamentally local. They have a BASIC DfT framework they are obliged to work to, but they are free to add in tighter local controls, in the case of MAN, I have been told at least twice "This is the Manchester way, we do things better here." That's local thinking driven from local management, it causes a huge amount of frustration with people who have may have literally seen the same problem addressed in a much more efficient way at the airport they started their day at. It can be done well, look at how much better Gatwick is. Glasgow also has a huge new security hall, albeit one which drops you into shops......Edinburgh I am not convinced about alas.
MAG has done what BAA did at LHR in the 90s, they took their eye off the ball and allowed the infrastructure to become slowly unsuitable for purpose until one day, it breaks.

[Navpi]

BUT if LHR had the SAME problems yesterday with the finger pointed at Border Force, is that not the root of the problem at Manchester as well ?

I appreciate MAN has own security but it seems somewhat coincidental !

[Curious Pax]

BUT if LHR had the SAME problems yesterday with the finger pointed at Border Force, is that not the root of the problem at Manchester as well ?

I appreciate MAN has own security but it seems somewhat coincidental !

completely different - MAN has it’s own problems with Border Force (see previous posts ad nauseam, particularly for T3), but that is Inbound. Security is purely for outbound flyers (in this context at least).

[The96er]

I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.

The airlines do frequently complain, not only because late passengers are late to the gate which entails a delay on departure, but also the treatment of Security to operating crews who arrive via the staff security channels. One particular airline is receiving multiple complaints weekly from the operating crews due to the attitude of the Security staff to the operating crew of a particular airline. Sadly, the airport management are so aloof to the issue that very little will change.

[azz767]

Anyone know why AA operated a 767 on the PHL route today as opposed to the standard 330?

[Ivan aromer]

Noticed on the side of a Flybee dash this morning, "quicker than the car or train" call me old fashioned but with the present security queues at T1, I think they could be done under the ASA misleading adverts. LOL

[Betablockeruk]

Anyone know why AA operated a 767 on the PHL route today as opposed to the standard 330?


https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-details/AA/734?year=2018&month=6&date=19&flightId=963131655

Changed equipment very early on the 19th. Anything else would be a total guess... maintenance delay on 330s etc.

FR24 has it down for 763 for today and tomorrows departure but that's not usually realiable

[LFC22]

Posted in the "who handles who" thread but thought I'd also ask in here to get a quicker response. Any truth to the rumours that DHL are taking the Eeasyjet contract from Menzies?

[OltonPete]

Posted in the "who handles who" thread but thought I'd also ask in here to get a quicker response. Any truth to the rumours that DHL are taking the Eeasyjet contract from Menzies?

No idea if true but at least would give a whole new meaning to "SLF" - sorry I couldn't resist but I thought the thread could do with something a little bit different.

April CAA Pax

I did check out most of the long-haul but mislaid them although I have revisited some and it is a mixed bag with Doha down 9% at around 79% load factor, Dubai up 4% around 484 per flight 88%, Singapore down 15%, Beijing down 3% around 65%, Hong Kong up 37%, Newark up 14%, JFK down 7%, Orlando down 14%, PHL up 2% and Muscat averaged 195. The shock for me was the Boston, Chicago and San Francisco all nil compared to last April - I must keep up.

Pete

[LAX_LHR]

It’s been reported that the Dubai annual rolling total has now surpassed the 1m pax mark.

[Scottie Dog]

It’s been reported that the Dubai annual rolling total has now surpassed the 1m pax mark.

Indeed, according to CAA stats, the figure is 1,002,238.

[ZOOKER]

Mr A Tis,

How can someone, working a "14 hour day", compounded by the effects of 'jet-lag', on flights between Hong Kong and Europe, possibly be expected to make cognitive and accurate 'business decisions'?

[OltonPete]

Indeed, according to CAA stats, the figure is 1,002,238.

Dubai - agreed as March rolling was 999237

Pete

[pholling]

...

As well as lack of staff, the security system itself is partly the problem. Instead of the old system where one person is processed at a time (in / out and gone) the system of having your search belongings separated slows things down dramatically. Here's what happens: you arrive at a loading point - you are one of four at each station. The other three are your 'competitors' . You pick a tray, load it and then wait for a gap to put it on the belt. And wait.... because the belt has stopped loading (see later). This slows you down because you can't pick up another tray until the previous one can be pushed through. So you wait some more. I would guess that the average number of trays per pax is three so multiply that delay by three.
Also at this point the insistence on putting carry on bags into a tray is just nonsense - I have noticed a number of foreign airports have tried this and now stopped it - Dublin being the most recent.
So through the actual body scan - no problems there. Now to the other delay at the other end. Since your three trays have been loaded separately at the front end, they come out with other people's trays mixed among them. Your first tray may be three trays in front of the second and so on. I have been counting this recently to prove my point. My last time through T1 Security A - my third tray came 16 trays after the second one (although I accept that was extreme). So again you wait. If just one tray of the average three is redirected for a manual search, the other two often remain on the belt until the search is done.This causes the belt at the delivery end to back up, causing it to stop and stopping the front belt - therefore causing further delays at the front end (see earlier).

The single loading system used at Frankfurt works properly since none of the above problems occur - you load all your trays sequentially - the result being there are rarely any security queues at an airport almost 3 time the size of MAN. Average wait at FRA is less than 5 mins I would say.

I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.

The 4 at a time method should be much faster per lane, overall, than the one at a time, at least in theory. The reason is simple queuing theory and first-in-first out (FIFO) dispatch stacks. If you have a system that can process an item every 4 seconds that costs a lot of money to install and operate you want to keep it full the entire time. If you have a single dispatch stack that can add an item to be processed every 4 seconds with no uncertainty, then it works well. The moment that goes above 4 seconds you get dead time. Further if you have high variability in the latency and throughput at the top end you get lots of wasted time. In Manchester I have seen people spend over a minute preparing their bags and such at the front of the queue, as one-in-one out would be frozen for the entirety of the time. With 4 dispatch queues no one delay stops the system. The problem is that the items go through in an order nearly the reverse of how you want them received. Your laptop, belt, liquids, etc often go through first and your bag last. This means that you cannot clear all of your stuff until the last tray comes through, another classic queuing issue. The secondary screening situation is somewhat independent of the dispatch method as people tend to leave their stuff while waiting for the items that needs to be checked. This is often the main bag.

The thing I have noticed flying in an out of lots of places is the traveler mix can have a significant impact on the time it takes to go through security. People that fly more often tend to be a lot faster than people that fly less often, independent of what type of trip they are on. When I traveled multiple times a month for work I was much more efficient at passing through security than I am now, when I travel much less. MAN has a fairly high percentage of travellers who do so once or twice a year, or even less often. They tend to reduce the throughput of the security process. Where MAG makes this worse is they have a very high hourly vs 2-hourly capacity in there departure declarations, all around 60%. This means that they are planning for security and such to be more congested in each part of the moving window. Other leisure heavy airports, e.g. LGW and STN, tend to be lower ~55%. Since delays are a marginal effect these extra passengers can have a huge impact on the wait times. Unfortunately, it is not really possible to easily add lanes to the security system, though the lower level T1 security is a definite exception. However, they could staff more lanes in many hours to reduce the backlogs.

As for the trays for your bags, this has to do with associating images with bags for secondary screening. Again, it should make it quicker to identify and find the offending item in the bag and minimise the amount of searching and re-screening.

As a side question, when you go through security how many trays do you typically end up using? It would be interesting to see what the averages are at different airports.

[ZOOKER]

pholling,

Hilarious post.

Why don't we establish a U.K. degree-course......BSc. (Hons) in 'Going through security'?

[FFHKG]

Try going through some of the Asian airports where they have high numbers of passengers, especially from China, who are first time flyers..... they do not have the problems that Manchester seems to have in the security areas. They are calm, no shouting, and still manage to process the passengers without the daily disruption that Manchester creates. Even in the UK, Gatwick probably has as many infrequent flyers, if not more than MAN, but still their security is speedy and CALM.

I just wish people would stop finding excuses as why MAN has the problems that few other airports world-wide have.

[Scottie Dog]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/568x1009/screenshot_20180620_193927_word_583e52eee598fab1ecc96f02e51e 616e0a6b19df.jpg
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[LAX_LHR]

MAN is understood to be close to securing a 3 weekly Delhi link with Air India, after assuring the board a service would not affect LHR/BHX loadings.

[RAS_2001]

What happened to the Thai Airways rumours, have they all been flushed down the plug hole?

It was mentioned once in an article stating that they planned on commencing a 4x weekly service to BKK, but was reported nowhere else.

[eye2eye5]

8.5% Pakistani origin and 2.3% Indian according to latest census details.

[LAX_LHR]

I think these new Indian routes are aimed at business and leisure rather than VFR. A few Indian tech firms are starting up in Manchester and there are a few other business links like chemical contracts (Runcorn).

DEL can also act as a transit point too with multiple options like Australia and China (especially price driven pax).

[LAX_LHR]

BHX5DME/Ian F had asked on another forum if MAN had seen over 100 different B787 (due BHX making that number). given I cannot answer on there, I can answer here.

MAN has definately surpassed the 100 mark (as it has done for the A380 also), with B787 visits from (numbers may be slightly out but don’t keep data myself so relying on 3rd party):

Boeing house (1)
LOT (1)
TUI U.K (13)
TUI Netherlands (2)
Virgin (5)
Etihad (11)
Hainan (21?)
American (10?)
United (1)
Saudia (11)
British Airways (2)
Qatar (30?)

soon to be joined by Ethiopian from Nov and Oman Air from Jul)

HTH Ian.

[Curious Pax]

BHX5DME/Ian F had asked on another forum if MAN had seen over 100 different B787 (due BHX making that number). given I cannot answer on there, I can answer here.

MAN has definately surpassed the 100 mark (as it has done for the A380 also), with B787 visits from (numbers may be slightly out but don’t keep data myself so relying on 3rd party):

Boeing house (1)
LOT (1)
TUI U.K (13)
TUI Netherlands (2)
Virgin (5)
Etihad (11)
Hainan (21?)
American (10?)
United (1)
Saudia (11)
British Airways (2)
Qatar (38?)

soon to be joined by Ethiopian from Nov and Oman Air from Jul)

HTH Ian.


Qatar only have 30, all of which have been in, similarly all 13 Saudi 789s
American have sent in 19 out of 20 788s
I found 13 Etihad 789s, and 19 Hainan (10 -8s and 9 -9s)

[LAX_LHR]

Cheer curiouspax. As said was relying off 3rd hand info so good to be corrected.

[Navpi]

Lots of Indian tech companies see "Manchester as the new London", their comment not mine !

Manchester is about to become the 1st and largest 5G infastructure in the UK, rents are clearly much lower and it has the largest graduate population/ pipeline in Europe. Many articles in the Indian press have referenced these comments. It's almost certainly the main reason why Indian airlines are circling. It seems to be fast becoming the go - to place for Indian tech incubators.

If the train infastructure wasn't so totally clapped out the beneficial effects could ripple out beyond the M60.

[LFC22]

Does Manchester and it surrounding towns have big Indian population? I always thought they we're more of Pakistani decent.
Very high concentration of Indian population in places such as Blackburn, Oldham, Bolton and Batley (West Yorkshire)

[eye2eye5]

Very high concentration of Indian population in places such as Blackburn, Oldham, Bolton and Batley (West Yorkshire)
see details in post 1822 which relates to Greater Manchester.

[Plane.Silly]

see details in post 1844 which relates to Greater Manchester.
Given that your post is #1822, i would if i could :p

I presume you mean this one (#1815)
https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10178137

[LAX_LHR]

Looks like VS could be increasing BOS from 2 to 4 weekly next summer. The airport timetable showing flights on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun.

[roverman]

Looks like VS could be increasing BOS from 2 to 4 weekly next summer. The airport timetable showing flights on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun.

Last month's press release said BOS was going to 3 per week from May 25th but I think a commentator on this forum noted a gap in aircraft utilisation which could enable some additional flying.

And so the Battle of The Atlantic rages on, with Virgin bringing in reinforcements to The Boston Tea Party, having retreated from SFO to take on Thomas Cook directly at Los Angeles. We'll see How The West Was Won next summer. Slightly frustrating that our two great hopes in the MAN-USA market are blotting each other out on these routes. I know they can't collude on who flies where and when but one hopes that market forces will ultimately deliver strong services to key cities on a year-round basis.

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

What happened to the Thai Airways rumours, have they all been flushed down the plug hole?

It was mentioned once in an article stating that they planned on commencing a 4x weekly service to BKK, but was reported nowhere else.

TG can't make their minds up on what plane to fly on what route and then stick to the decision so starting a new route must be a brain numbing decision for them to make. Here at FRA the summer service has brought in 2 x 777W per day instead of 1 x A380 and 1 x A350. I lay odds that they are stuck arguing on whether they use B788, B789, A350, B772 or B77W on MAN

[110Cornets]

TG can't make their minds up on what plane to fly on what route and then stick to the decision so starting a new route must be a brain numbing decision for them to make. Here at FRA the summer service has brought in 2 x 777W per day instead of 1 x A380 and 1 x A350. I lay odds that they are stuck arguing on whether they use B788, B789, A350, B772 or B77W on MAN

You’re correct they can’t decide on anything....but MAN’s been on their list for a long time. And it’s going to happen soon. Hopefully this year.... but hey. TG.

787 is the plane. 4 weekly, I heard.

[RAS_2001]

Just realized that Etihad are using a 787-9 into Manchester tomorrow morning, is this a one off or will there be more to come?

[pholling]

One, I only need one to put my flight bag, company ipad and uniform jacket in. They all fit in very easily with nothing on top of one another but of course our well trained security personal know better and insist that I use several.
​

While one data point does not disprove the null hypothesis you would be one of those well versed in the wonders of airport security. It is absolutely possible to get through on one or two trays, especially at Manchester where they are quite large, even with an infant we only used 3 most of the time. However, the disorganisation of so many seems to make this near impossible for lots of people. I agree that the staff at Manchester are often not particularly helpful. Though from my limited observation that seems to be inversely proportional to how busy it is. When things are quiet you can afford to use a dozen trays and accidentally leave liquids in your bag. When they are swamped you need efficient processing, something that seems to fall apart in MAN. That being said my last few trips though have been fine, but I tend to go through at less busy hours. My last trip thought T2 security, which was on a Saturday at 08:45 was smooth, the people I interacted with were pleasant and some I observed were friendly, it was not particularly busy though. I have seen the T1 and T3 cattle calls and quite rude staff. I have also seen a complete miss-staffing of T1 security where they had only 1 female security agent one two lanes and half the travellers passing through were women.

I will say that I avoid the airport, and certain terminals especially, on given days and at certain times. However, even my worst experiences have not been as bad as some of the ones I had at US airports when travelling several times a week. 4+ hour security lines at ATL (thankfully those are generally in the past) make the disasters at MAN seem quaint.

I did once query the need for more than one tray and the lady was quick to point out how she had been doing the job for nearly a whole year without actually giving me a proper answer.

A whole year in airport security, that could be a record at Manchester as who would tolerate that awful position and how badly they are treated by management for so long?

(Oddly I have not seen her since)

But who am I to argue, I'm just some some dumb pilot who sits at the front of 100T of aluminium often containing 20 odd T of fuel so I know nothing about aviation and flight safety do I?

Airport security, take it with laugh and good humour............
​

I see this all the time, not just with the security theatre.

[LFC22]

These reviews are very telling. Could explain why security staff are rude and uninterested in their job.

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Manchester-Airports-Group/reviews

[RAS_2001]

Perfectly said Roverman, we are so lucky to have OUR airport on the doorstep. I live in Stockport so its a small distance to worldwide services. You are correct it depends on when you travel,i have been through twice on return trips since the new year and they were stress free experiences. I am traveling again on Thursday through terminal 1, i may comment on my experience at a later date. Cheers Sam

Hopefully the new terminal should cater for the syressed-out, tumultuous people's and the chaotic nature of both T1 and T2 at this current momne tin time.

Although time will tell...

I have high hopes for the new terminal and I believe it will bolster opportunity in the North on the whole; not just within Manchester itself. With easier transportation and access to higher/better quality facilities should also be a contributing factor to burst the growth of the North and Britain's economy.

[ZOOKER]

polling,

I don't think the majority of those using Manch' care about 'data points' and 'null hypotheses'......They just want to get to duty free and up in the sky.

[RAS_2001]

Out of interest, has there ever been a direct servuce from Manchester to YUL?

[Porky Speedpig]

Strictly speaking yes, in that direct does not mean "non stop" but "same plane service" in airline speak - BA637 MAN PIK YUL/YMX in the 60s and 70s - VC10/B747

[pwalhx]

Out of interest, has there ever been a direct servuce from Manchester to YUL?

I am pretty sure in my early days at the airport in the 70's that BA operated into Montreal but I stand to be corrected.

[MARK9263]

Montreal was served from MAN by BOAC/BA from 1958 until October 1979, usually tagged on with the YYZ operation. Between 1976-1979 it was served as a stand-alone flight during the summer months.

[Mr A Tis]

Yes for many years the VC10 did MAN- New York, Antigua & Barbados, whilst the 707 went MAN to Montreal & onwards to Toronto.

[MARK9263]

The Caribbean connection ended in March 1974, co-inciding with the withdrawal of the standard VC-10s

[roverman]

Montreal was served from MAN by BOAC/BA from 1958 until October 1979, usually tagged on with the YYZ operation. Between 1976-1979 it was served as a stand-alone flight during the summer months.

Indeed, it was a seasonally non-stop service in the late 1970s operated by a mix of B707/VC10 and B747, routing onwards to Toronto. BA 083/082, I seem to recall was the number. The demand has never been that strong I assume since the bulk of the historic links with Montreal are in the French-speaking world, although the city is home to a number of international agencies, most notably our own ICAO.

[zed3]

Does anyone remember the BOAC callsign from MAN to JFK in the late sixties... I think it was Speedbird 537/538 with a B707 and/or VC10 through EGPK. Happy days. I remember the call through fl100 at Polehill northbound!

[Suzeman]

En passant, it's 80 years ago today since the airport opened at Ringway.

Great idea to get Tony Walsh to write a poem - and a video goes with it.

Two things - the music is too loud and AFAIK there is no picture of Sir Gil Thompson who was primarily responsible for pushing the airport to punch well above its weight

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-poem-tony-walsh-14824559

Interesting bit of history here
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-celebrate-eightieth-birthday-14820294

[Scottie Dog]

Whilst we're reminiscing am I correct in thinking that one of our earlier BOAC flights actually continued to Georgetown, British Guyana?

[MANFOD]

Thanks for the links Suzeman. As you say, some fascinating history.

Agree there should be a picture of the late Sir Gil Thompson. He did so much to raise the profile of MAN. Ironically, his appointment was initially viewed in some quarters as controversial because of his BA background, but what an inspired appointment it turned out to be.

Personally, I usually find the music on such videos as too loud. For those of us with poor hearing and having to use aids, it's often difficult to catch all the words.

[Curious Pax]

Perhaps there should be a proposal to the airport to name each of the new T2 piers after a notable person in MAN’s evolution. The Sir Gil Thomson pier has a certain ring to it. Just shows I don’t hold a grudge- he caused me to get a b*ll*cking from a Britannia skipper over 30 years ago!

[Logohu]

Does anyone remember the BOAC callsign from MAN to JFK in the late sixties... I think it was Speedbird 537/538 with a B707 and/or VC10 through EGPK.

As I recall the JFK was BA538/539, and the Montreal/Toronto was BA648/649. The numbers changed some time after the merger with BEA.

Whilst we're reminiscing am I correct in thinking that one of our earlier BOAC flights actually continued to Georgetown, British Guyan

Indeed it did, while other flights went to Trinidad and Tobago, via JFK and then any combination of Antigua, Barbados, and St Lucia. Those were the days when just getting from MAN to the Caribbean was an adventure in itself !! Nowadays it can be done in a composite tube in a little over 7 hours.

[Betablockeruk]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279276/royal-air-maroc-2h18-manchester-frequency-variations/

Airlineroute reporting:

Royal Air Maroc in the second-half of 2018 is adjusting Casablanca – Manchester service, as overall service reduces from 4 to 3 weekly. The airline will operate 3 weekly flights during following period.

11AUG18 – 05SEP18 3 weekly 737-700 (Day 456)
06SEP18 – 27OCT18 3 weekly 737-800 (Day 456)
10NOV18 – 13DEC18 3 weekly 737-700 (Day 246)

[Navpi]

I really think a picture of Mike Kane MP should be hung in the new terminal. He has been a fabulous supporter of the airport. He always promotes the airport at every opportunity and i feel sure this would go down really well with the many 000s of constituents in his local area.

[chaps1954]

Thought the RAM was due to go back to 3 weekly anyway but maybe a couple of weeks early than planned

[MARK9263]

Whilst we're reminiscing am I correct in thinking that one of our earlier BOAC flights actually continued to Georgetown, British Guyana?

Guyana was indeed served from November 1968 until March 1974, along with Antigua, Bridgetown and Port of Spain.

[Logohu]

I really think a picture of Mike Kane MP should be hung in the new terminal. He has been a fabulous supporter of the airport. He always promotes the airport at every opportunity and i feel sure this would go down really well with the many 000s of constituents in his local area.

I'm guessing Chris Grayling won't be getting a pier named after him any time soon then ? ☺ Although one could easily argue he'd be far more useful as a plaque on a wall somewhere. Or a plant pot maybe ?
​​​​​​

[MANFOD]

Just in case anyone is in any doubt that Navpi's post was splendid sarcasm, I would just mention that the MP in question, Mike Kane, represents Wythenshawe and Sale East and the airport falls in his constituency. Apparently ignoring warnings of the risk that R3 at LHR could jeopardise MAN's future growth with the resultant impact on jobs for his constituents, many of whom work at the airport, and the likely implications for infrastructure spend in the North, he voted for Heathrow expansion - I understand with some relish.

[LAX_LHR]

If you fancy a laugh this afternoon......

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/eaglexpress-air-charter-plans-to-restart-operations-with-us-100-million-in-capital/

[inOban]

T2 has lost all power according to the BBC

[chaps1954]

What are you on ? power outages happen at most airports and have just the same effect, until we know what caused it ( maybe builders ) no blame can be put on management
When I worked in Manchester a guy put a spade through a high voltage cable on Balloon St ( lived to tell the tale) put virtually the whole of the Co-op complex out of action for about 3 hours during tram building work.

[ZOOKER]

chaps, if it was someone cutting a cable in T2, it's inexcusable. That building was constructed about 28 years ago. The location/routes of all the power cables/utility-lines should have been recorded and mapped with a high-degree of precision.

[chaps1954]

But it happens!

[Mr A Tis]

Still in shock! Just passed through T3 security at 8:30am today (Wednesday 27th) and zero queues for security- walked straight in to the scanning areas.
so it can be done after all - who would have thought it!

[sparkysam]

Time for a cool one Mr A cheers Sam

[zfw]

This just popped up in my inbox is it real?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/967x261/doc2_7343a731ba2587a7c26f1614581e1957fc78131e.jpg

[Scottie Dog]

Well a search for Premiair.co.uk produces a blank domain so, at least at the present, there appears to be nothing to get too excited by.

[easyflyer83]

Still in shock! Just passed through T3 security at 8:30am today (Wednesday 27th) and zero queues for security- walked straight in to the scanning areas.
so it can be done after all - who would have thought it!

Any terminal at MAN after first wave and in between subsequent waves is usually a very passable experience. Again, it comes down to the fact that the airport had so many based aircraft that makes the experience, usually first thing, a horrible experience.

T3 mid morning on Sunday was an absolute breeze.

[Scottie Dog]

As you say Manchester has a large number of based aircraft - I understand it's 88 including VIR & TCX long-haul but excluding nightstoppers such as BAW & KLM. No wonder there are high numbers of 1st wave departures.

[Espada III]

But your 5,000 per hour is over three terminals. So in T1 for instance, you might say 2,000 passengers per hour which is 33 per minute. A lot, but if they use 6 security lanes, that is say 6 per minute per lane. Not totally impossible and if they opened more lanes, the flow would be faster and people would have longer time in duty-free or buying food.

[roverman]

But your 5,000 per hour is over three terminals. So in T1 for instance, you might say 2,000 passengers per hour which is 33 per minute. A lot, but if they use 6 security lanes, that is say 6 per minute per lane. Not totally impossible and if they opened more lanes, the flow would be faster and people would have longer time in duty-free or buying food.
Declared departure capacity of T1 is 3000 per hour and it's hitting that in first wave. T3 @ 1500 ph likewise. T2 is, I think, 2500 ph and has less demand since the Monarch collapse.

[MKY661]

Declared departure capacity of T1 is 3000 per hour and it's hitting that in first wave. T3 @ 1500 ph likewise. T2 is, I think, 2500 ph and has less demand since the Monarch collapse.

With the rumours that Jet2 will move more flights over to T2 in 2019 hopefully it'll help stop T1 from hitting that big number.

[Plane.Silly]

With the rumours that Jet2 will move more flights over to T2 in 2019 hopefully it'll help stop T1 from hitting that big number.

Or it could free up space for other operators to grow. The number will be reached regardless. the Jet2 move would just delay the inevitable.
Following on from that, does anyone know any more about the destinations moving over to T2?

[RAS_2001]

It's been rumoured Pegasus are going to start a 4x weekly service from Manchester to Instanbul Sabiha-Goçken. Any truth to these rumours?

[AndrewH52]

Actually the average seating capacity is closer to 210 per aircraft, rather than 180. Don’t forget out of the c.90 aircraft based, 20 are wide bodies and a further 20 are A321/B757s.

By my reckoning the based capacity equates to over 19,000 seats - over half of this at T1. With declared terminal capacity of 3000 departing pax per hour at T1, the first wave needs to stretch over almost 3.5 hours. This also doesn’t factor in night stopping LH flights.

Of course this assumes every seat is taken, but as we approach peak summer the likelihood is they pretty much will be.

[FFMAN]

Nothing at all wrong with having based planes - in fact they create good well paid jobs for the local economy. What is wrong is MAN management's inability to plan and implement a strategy for dealing with the consequences.
T1 is woefully inadequate for handling the number of passengers it already does - although I suspect if all the security lanes were fully open and staffed adequately, that part of the operation might just about cope. Am I right in stating that T1 at MAN would still be the biggest airport outside London in its own right?
Whatever, the wrecking ball can't come soon enough for this particular lashed together set of compromises..
Going through there first thing Sunday morning for another trip - dreading it.
.

[roverman]

Actually the average seating capacity is closer to 210 per aircraft, rather than 180. Don’t forget out of the c.90 aircraft based, 20 are wide bodies and a further 20 are A321/B757s.

By my reckoning the based capacity equates to over 19,000 seats - over half of this at T1. With declared terminal capacity of 3000 departing pax per hour at T1, the first wave needs to stretch over almost 3.5 hours. This also doesn’t factor in night stopping LH flights.

Of course this assumes every seat is taken, but as we approach peak summer the likelihood is they pretty much will be.


Got to remember that most of the based wide-bodies are on long-haul and do not depart in the first wave, before 0900. They behave almost the same as non-based long-haul, i.e. in the air overnight, arriving 0530 onwards and not departing until after 0900. Long-haul departures peak between 1000 and 1300, with a small East-bound wave in the evening.

[LAX_LHR]

All of the Airport staff will rejoice to know staff east is closing as a staff car park and JetParks 1 becoming a staff car park starting 23rd July.

[MKY661]

Going through there first thing Sunday morning for another trip - dreading it.
.

I am as well, hoping for a good experience but probably won't be the case haha

[LAX_LHR]

Thorley lane opposite T2.

[The96er]

Thorley lane opposite T2.

The car park on Thorley lane would not be big enough to act as a staff car park alone (Look on Google earth for size comparison). Are you sure it's not the one on Ringway rd ?

[LAX_LHR]

The memo to staff that went out indicated JetParks one, which is that car park on thorley Lane.

jetparks 2 is the car park across the road (enterprise way) and the one under short finals (shadow moss road) is called jetparks ringway.

some staff are also being allocated spaces in T1/T3 midstay so maybe that’s how they intend to squeeeze everyone into JP1?

[Navpi]

I noticed in the latest "State Of The Nation" PR piece, the airport CEO suggested capacity will rise to 45m with the new TP.

We appear to have quietly lost 10m ! All the previous PR puff pieces suggested capacity would ACTUALLY rise to 55m.

Can I launch an appeal for the missing 10m !

[LAX_LHR]

45m is probably a better number. No pint trying to improve the passenger experience at one end and then try and cram them in like sardines at the other end. 45m should see MAN until about 2030 and then building on the T1/3 site can boost the capacity again.

[roverman]

I noticed in the latest "State Of The Nation" PR piece, the airport CEO suggested capacity will rise to 45m with the new TP.<br /><br />We appear to have quietly lost 10m ! All the previous PR puff pieces suggested capacity would ACTUALLY rise to 55m.<br /><br />Can I launch an appeal for the missing 10m !<br /><br />55 Million is the ultimate potential of the two runways according to MAG. Such calculations are always open to question as runways determine ATM and not the passenger volume directly. No one is suggesting that figure can be achieved wit just the MAN-TP development. A lot more will be needed after 2024 but TP will have shifted the centre of the airport to T2 allowing for the T1 / T3 site to be developed.<br /><br />On the staff car parking, T3 mid-stay is currently being double-decked with a quickly assembled steel structure and so will be able to take a good deal more soon.

[Curious Pax]

FWIW (not a lot I know!) breezed through security just now. In through the turnstiles at 0710, out the other side before 0725. Staff a bit grumpy though- that sort of thing usually filters down from the superiors so perhaps the head of security should be looking at how he works.

I expected a lot more queuing as despite being Sunday we are still due out in the middle of the TCX long haul/ Etihad/ Emirates 380 rush.

[Navpi]

Hammer blow by xxxxs in Whitehall to aspirations of transport connectivity to Man Airport as Trans Penine electrification is about to get cancelled.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/61267934-7ca0-11e8-8ce4-0bcac63244b2

The North should introduce it's own National Anthem

"we've been shafted again"

[chaps1954]

Yes but we need more tracks/paths into Manchester as they just can`t cope and that is why the local trains south of Manchester are so crap, 4 tracks south of Stockport on both Stoke and Crewe lines would make life a lot better but even then Piccadilly to Stockport needs extra lines and as for platforms 13/14 Therefor HS2 will help as 3 tains an hour to London will be taken off the creaking section to Stoke/Crewe.

[MANFOD]

With the furore a complete cancellation of Manchester-Leeds electrification would cause, even among our placid MPs in the North, surely even this Transport Secretary wouldn't be so stupid to take such action. .... Oh, I don't know though!

[Mr A Tis]

Manchester Airport please note ( already happening)
https://www.nats.aero/news/airport-operational-performance-priority-millions-passengers/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=NATS

[canberra97]

Plenty of money for London of course. How much did cross rail cost and are they not planning a North South cross rail?. The spend per head on rail in London is something like 5 time that in the rest of the Country if not more.

We live in a London Centric controlled dump of a Country.

Better to scrap HS2, the whole network could be electrified with that waist of money.

2nd class citizens in our own Country

Regarding your comment about a North-South Crossrail, there is already a North-South Crossrail called THAMESLINK connecting Gatwick and Luton, this link was heavily invested a few years ago.

[pwalhx]

Regarding your comment about a North-South Crossrail, there is already a North-South Crossrail called THAMESLINK connecting Gatwick and Luton, this link was heavily invested a few years ago.
Crossrail 3’ could come about thanks to new plans for Transport for London (TfL) to take over suburban rail services in Greater London, according to the peer heading the National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) investigation into Crossrail 2.
In an appearance before the London Assembly Transport Committee, NIC chair Lord Andrew Adonis (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Inbox/100bn-adonis-commission-to-help-shape-crossrail-2-and-hs3/124901) said he thought the TfL takeover was as significant as the planned railway from the south to the north-east of London, which could be completed by 2030.

[bycrewlgw]

Regarding your comment about a North-South Crossrail, there is already a North-South Crossrail called THAMESLINK connecting Gatwick and Luton, this link was heavily invested a few years ago.

Thameslink isn’t crossrail. There’s another planned to run between Chelsea and The north of London

[Navpi]

As Capt Mainwaring would say.....

I sometimes think I'm surrounded by idiots.

In this case we have a complete bunch of prats running transport.

The level of incompetence has been taken to stratospheric levels of incompetence.

Don't hold your breath for the Hs2 station.

[FFMAN]

FWIW (not a lot I know!) breezed through security just now. In through the turnstiles at 0710, out the other side before 0725.

I was somewhat later than you but my experience was similar although I found the staff quite cheerful tbf (maybe because they weren't inundated). I had priority lane but the normal queue was almost non-existent too.

If we can turn our attention away from the rail industry for a short while, does anyone know what was going on with the BA Shuttle that was parked down past (or so it seemed) the far holding point for 05L (the one for full length departures) mid-late morning? It was some distance away but it almost looked like it was on the grass (!!) It was facing south west with a load of ops / security type vehicles around it. Departures, including ours, were entering the runway at the previous intersection as a result, which is one of the reasons I noticed it.

[Curious Pax]

Reported elsewhere that the BA had a nosewheel issue that ended with pax deplaning onto buses on the taxiway. We also entered and backtracked as a result- an impressively tight 180 in an A330.

[FFMAN]

Thanks CP, makes sense.
Hope the trip's going well

[DP.]

All of the Airport staff will rejoice to know staff east is closing as a staff car park and JetParks 1 becoming a staff car park starting 23rd July.

Not before time either. It's just a shame it's taken them this long to finally concede this. If it's any consolation to the numerous disgruntled pax who frequent this thread, the staff are treated with pretty much the same attitude by management.

[Scottie Dog]

Is this not a temporary measure until the new road is complete with a return to Staff East next year?

That is what I seem to recall reading in the update my company sent us.

I would check but have deleted the email.

Correct, I believe the date is until 31st October subject to confirmation.

[Scottie Dog]

May 2018 statistical review

https://image.ibb.co/hcaQHJ/Screenshot_20180703_142151_Word.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/c0MMrd/Screenshot_20180703_142205_Word.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/heuKcJ/Screenshot_20180703_142215_Word.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/ditjBd/Screenshot_20180703_142225_Word.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/n0zfjy/Screenshot_20180703_142233_Word.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/b6ePBd/Screenshot_20180703_142241_Word.jpg

[Scottie Dog]

Just a reminder that runway operating hours change from 9th July:-

Monday to Friday (inclusive)
26th March-8th July 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
06:30hrs - 10:30hrs and 13:00hrs – 20:00hrs
9th July 2018-28th October 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
06:15hrs - 20:00hrs
Saturday
26th March-8th July 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
06:30hrs - 10:30hrs and 13:00hrs – 16:00hrs
9th July 2018-28th October 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
06:15hrs – 16:00hrs

Sunday
26th March-8th July 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
13:00hrs - 17:00hrs
9th July 2018-28th October 2018
Dual runway operations will be in operation between
06:15hrs – 09:30hrs and 13:00hrs- 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times

[Suzeman]

This may go some way to explain the comments made earlier re security

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-security-strike-rosters-14862205

[Mr A Tis]

It comes as government figures revealed Manchester Airport passengers were the ‘unhappiest in the country’ with their security experience last year.



If they were bottom of the league last year then 2018 isn’t going to show any improvement

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Remember the good old days when you'd just breeze through..... Now security are nothing more than failed ASDA security staff

[virginblue]

Talking about security - how is the setup if I am connecting domestic > domestic on BE at Manchester? I have done conncetions on BE international > domestic and had to go climb many stairs up and down and go through the whole security drama. Is it the same woth a donmestic arrivalor is a transfer somewhat more straightforward?

[lfc84]

if i recall correctly i was able to remain air side in T3 when i did it

[LAX_LHR]

Norwegian add a 3rd weekly Stavanger flight starting 31st October. New flight on a Wednesday using same times and flight numbers as the Mon/Fri flight. Confirmed and bookable.

[ManchesterUK]

Hello - thanks for posting again the new dual-runway opening times.

Just a quick question. You mention that the new operating times take place from 9th July - 28th October 2018. After 28th October, does this mean that the times will revert back to the original times of 6:30-10:30am, 4-8pm etc?

Many thanks in advance

[canberra97]

Remember the good old days when you'd just breeze through..... Now security are nothing more than failed ASDA security staff

Remember the good old days when you'd just breeze through.

Do you mean the good old days when aircraft were regularly blown up, when aircraft were regularly hijacked, when aircraft were used to blow up buildings, when aircraft were in danger of shoe bombers!

Oh yes the good old days were definitely a safer time, don't we miss them eh.

[LAX_LHR]

RSD travel will run a bi-weekly Marrakesh using Corendon Airlines Europe B737 from Feb 2019, and will also charter a weekly Aegean A320 to Heraklion from 20th October all winter.

[Mr A Tis]

Airport announces massive profits : https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/manchester-airport-dividend-profit-council-14868721#ICID=sharebar_facebook

Made on the backs of insufficient staffing, particularly security.

Isn't Manchester Airport the "Ryanair" of airports- where you get a very basic service and then get charged for anything & everything?

Customer experience appears not to be a priority. After all, this is an airport that last summer, thought it perfectly acceptable to close part of an operational main taxiway in favour of car parking.

What happened to their big announcement about investing in the local bus network to reduce congestion ? No, much easier to charge £3-£4 to drop off, create queues at various points and then charge to bypass their own creations. It's win win for the accountants.

If nothing else, Manchester Airport needs to brush up on its image & make some immediate changes to enhance the customer experience whilst we await the magical transformation project (2028??)

[chaps1954]

Buses in Manchester are a nightmare as the councils are cutting left right and centre all over the show

Ian

[LAX_LHR]

Primera have applied to run EWR and IAD this winter from MAN.

Whilst IAD would be most welcome, I doubt these flights will happen given the multitude of issues PF have had this summer.

[RND20]

Interesting, does this mean they wont be returning to BHX next year?

[chaps1954]

Strange time to start

[PAXboy]

Holidaymaker who left car at airport returns to find 50 extra miles on clock and speeding ticket (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/manchester-airport-meet-greet-car-speeding-ticket-mileage-steve-taylor-a8432561.html)

[zfw]

Primera have applied to run EWR and IAD this winter from MAN.

Whilst IAD would be most welcome, I doubt these flights will happen given the multitude of issues PF have had this summer.
You have obviously got access to ACls winter prelim.

Managed to get a look but not a copy heres what i can remember

Cathay A350 900 TO A350 1000 on selected dates.

Aegean to HER this winter

Esy jet 14 based aircraft.

Jet to Mumbai 4 times a week

Spicejet {again} B777 300 starting in Feb to Delhi Daily, with a 1.30 hour turnaround.

Sia extra IAH

United 757 replaced by a B767 300.

And the aforementioned Primera using an A321 presumabaly a A321LR, no dates announced for that yet.

Mostly increases to the rest of the based fleets.

[sherburn2LA]

so overall a slightly better experience with the parking than with the airport then

[Lee J]

Holidaymaker who left car at airport returns to find 50 extra miles on clock and speeding ticket (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/manchester-airport-meet-greet-car-speeding-ticket-mileage-steve-taylor-a8432561.html)

A £100,000 car and the owner is willing to save £20 to £30 from my experience on not choosing official airport parking :sad:

In saying that, I'm finding the M&G a pain in the ass lately - besides the fact it isn't meet and greet, there is more often than not a queue out the reception doors.

[Scottie Dog]

Hello - thanks for posting again the new dual-runway opening times.

Just a quick question. You mention that the new operating times take place from 9th July - 28th October 2018. After 28th October, does this mean that the times will revert back to the original times of 6:30-10:30am, 4-8pm etc?

Many thanks in advance

As far as I'm aware at the present that is the answer to your question.

If I hear of anything different I'll post it.

[Scottie Dog]

The summer solstice has now been enjoyed and, whilst we possibly suffer from hallucinations brought on by heatstroke, thoughts turn to the darker months (also known as the winter schedule).

According to sources I understand that the following may, or may not happen.:-

Cathay Pacific - increase capacity with an A350-1000 between December & February.

Corendon Airlines Europe - commence a weekly charter to Marrakech. This flight will be shared with Birmingham.

easyJet - based aircraft increase to 14.

Ethiopian Airlines - Addis Ababa 4 per week via Brussels.

Eurowings - up 1 per week on Cologne and Dusseldorf but down 2 on Hamburg.

Finnair - look to be increasing from E190 to A321.

Hainan Airlines - once again a rumour of Guangzhou but this has been heard before!

Jet Airways - already reported as 4 per week to Bombay.

KLM - can Amsterdam sustain an extra flight each day?

Primera Air - Malaga already reported as a non-based flight. How about trans-atlantic? Hopefully not but watch this thread....

Qatar Airways - already reported as increasing to 18 per week and maybe up to 21.

Ryanair - 8 based units.

Singapore Airlines - increase Singapore/Houston by 1 to 6 per week.

Spicejet - now that name rings a bell. Didn't we see it for the Summer schedules? Maybe a Delhi flight but do they have aircraft?

Various other bits and pieces including United possibly upgrading to B763.

Take this all with a pinch of salt and we'll see what materialised over the next few months

[ManchesterUK]

RE Scottie Dog - many thanks. Appreciate it :)

[Logohu]

Thanks Scottie Dog.
The notable absentee from your rather long list being the elusive Thai - dropped off the radar for the umpteenth time again I assume ??

[Navpi]

Interesting list Scottie, the trend is clearly upward.

Is that true of the bread and butter operators like TUI,TCX,RYR etc. Whilst Long haul is very welcome a single based A321 operating 3x a day really ramps up the figures, 3 or 4 of these and you are looking at hefty increases.

in terms of Primera I actually hope they stay at Birmingham as thus far its been an unmitigated shambles, that is UNLESS they arrive at the very point they get the A321LR.

The A321 is ideal for smaller regional airports like BHX and It would be unlucky for Brum if they pull out completely just as the schedule settles down and they actually start getting it right.

Stansted has been marginally better....but only just !
I wonder how Paris is doing?

Re buses , our nutjobs from both Labour and the Tories in Westminster never use a bus so have absolutely zero interest.

I have no support for Corbyn BUT he was actually correct despite being ripped apart by a London based media mafia.

Check their expenses, lots of taxi and first class train and plane fares but no public transport, perish the thought !

[Betablockeruk]

in terms of Primera I actually hope they stay at Birmingham as thus far its been an unmitigated shambles, that is UNLESS they arrive at the very point they get the A321LR.

The A321 is ideal for smaller regional airports like BHX and It would be unlucky for Brum if they pull out completely just as the schedule settles down and they actually start getting it right.

Stansted has been marginally better....but only just !
I wonder how Paris is doing?


I'm all for planning ahead and the return of IAD would be wonderful, but by last accounts they we delaying the BHX services until S19. Have their priorities changed? Get in there [MAN] before Norwegian perhaps?

[LAX_LHR]

I doubt we will se Norwegian long haul from Manchester. The Max seems to have found its niche at Dublin, and the B787 fleet is even more unlikely to be seen at MAN.

[Betablockeruk]

I doubt we will se Norwegian long haul from Manchester. The Max seems to have found its niche at Dublin, and the B787 fleet is even more unlikely to be seen at MAN.

Ah, Dublin. I wonder what their 4th July infographic would look like compared to this https://mediacentre.manchesterairport.co.uk/strong-stateside-growth-at-manchester-airport-benefits-all-of-the-north---welcomed-by-trade-minister-liam-fox/

Bet MAG don't push out a Winter season TATL infographic..... Chicago?

[LAX_LHR]

Yes Dublin has strength going West compared to MAN, but on the flip side, MAN has the strength going east and still getting stronger. So, it’s all swings and roundabouts really.

[RAS_2001]

LAX yes Dublin are very strong heading west, but you cannot deny the fact that we have sustain direct flights to places such as IAH and SEA, of which would've seemed obsurred just over a decade ago. I can also see a lot of opportunities for Manchester looking west. Two possible destinations in my opinion would be the resumption of Washington and maybe somewhere like San Jose and San Diego, two very popular destinations, especially in the summer months. So I cannot see why Man could not sustain 3 or 4 flights a week to those destinations a week.

[Fairdealfrank]

Check their expenses, lots of taxi and first class train and plane fares but no public transport, perish the thought !

Er, first class train and plane are public transport.

[roverman]

LAX yes Dublin are very strong heading west, but you cannot deny the fact that we have sustain direct flights to places such as IAH and SEA, of which would've seemed obsurred just over a decade ago. I can also see a lot of opportunities for Manchester looking west. Two possible destinations in my opinion would be the resumption of Washington and maybe somewhere like San Jose and San Diego, two very popular destinations, especially in the summer months. So I cannot see why Man could not sustain 3 or 4 flights a week to those destinations a week.

As a priority we could do with seeing primary cities like Los Angeles and Boston with a year round and preferably daily service rather than scatter gun service to secondary holiday destinations. Washington needs a daily year round as the US capital. Chicago is now a short season service and must be in the 'at risk' category. It's a shame that VS and MT can't somehow avoid flying to BOS and SFO on the same days at the same time, leaving gaping holes in the services across the week. The same is going to happen with LAX next year.
Taken overall though, MAN's US offering is a leap on from where it was 5 years ago.

[LAX_LHR]

Qatar to upgrade the morning and afternoon flights to A359 from 28th October, evening flight remains B788.

From 18th Sept, the Morning flight also goes daily, meaning service will be 18 weekly overall.

confirmed and bookable on all platforms.

[LAX_LHR]

Local press in Greece is running a story about Volos Airport. In that story it states Easyjet will open a MAN-Volos link next summer.

[Logohu]

Qatar to upgrade the morning and afternoon flights to A359 from 28th October,

A welcome development for those like me who usually fly Economy, the Qatar A359 is a much nicer ride than the B788 in my experience.

Between the aircraft type change and additional flights I make that a 22% increase in seats for Qatar on the route. With EK's 3x daily A380, Oman also now using their latest kit, Cathay upgrading to A350-1000, and Jet Airways about to start to India there really is an incredible amount of capacity and choice heading East from MAN nowadays compared to just a few years ago

[RAS_2001]

Very interesting selection of easyjet, I personally thought they might have looked to utilise areas from where monarch left a gaping hole such as direct flights to mainland Croatia.

I guess only time will tell as to whether or not easyjet look to further expand their diversification of different European destinations from where they currently are.
​​​​​​Additionally, I believe that Volos is a wise and quite out of the box route to be starting up, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Mr A Tis]

More negative customer experiences as car windows smashed in T1 multi storey
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-car-park-theft-14887565

Also trouble at mill with black cab taxi drivers who are boycotting all terminals
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-black-cab-drivers-14887189

[LAX_LHR]

RAS_2001

while it wasn’t served at the time of Monarch going under, I believe Monarch did use to serve Volos from Manchester. There will be more routes from Easyjet, this will just be one of them as it’s been reported at that end of the route rather than this end.

[FFMAN]

A359 is a much nicer ride than the B788 in my experience.

Have ridden both several times now and the A350, I agree, is a much more sophisticated aircraft and a nicer ride. For me it's the best plane in the sky at the moment from a pax perspective.

[DP.]

Also trouble at mill with black cab taxi drivers who are boycotting all terminals

Prioritising their relationship with Arrow Cars has long been more important to MAN than providing a good service to passengers.

We arrived back around 23.00 on Sunday night (and then having to negotiate a queue for passport control which snaked all the way out of the area, and both ways around the T1 arrivals corridor) we were told it'd be 'at least an hour' before Arrow Cars could provide a taxi.

It's laughably poor.

[LAX_LHR]

Continuing on from yesterday, Qatar Airways now confirmed and bookable as 21 weekly from 1st June 2019. All 3 flights daily.

[TURIN]

Continuing on from yesterday, Qatar Airways now confirmed and bookable as 21 weekly from 1st June 2019. All 3 flights daily.
Damn, i used to enjoy the odd quiet late shift.

[Trav a la]

I departed via T3 yesterday (Monday), arrived at 0615 and through security within 5 minutes, no delays what so ever.

i was expecting the worst but received a very nice surprise, unfortunately that only lasted a short while as my Ryanair flight to AGP was then delayed by nearly 5 hours. Oh well,

[RAS_2001]

The A350 will give customers a much more contemporary and futuristic experience, with on-board LED lighting and a broad variety of channels to choose from, it will be truly luxurious.

[MKY661]

RAS_2001

while it wasn’t served at the time of Monarch going under, I believe Monarch did use to serve Volos from Manchester. There will be more routes from Easyjet, this will just be one of them as it’s been reported at that end of the route rather than this end.

Signs that EasyJet are still planning their apparent big expansion at MAN that was postponed this summer?

[MANFOD]

June stats:

Terminal pax up 3.4%
Total pax up 3.45%
Freight down 6.99%

Over 93,000 more pax in June this year.
The rolling 12 months total pax incl. transit is now over 28m.
Terminal pax is just 86,000 below the 28m.

[TURIN]

The A350 will give customers a much more contemporary and futuristic experience, with on-board LED lighting and a broad variety of channels to choose from, it will be truly luxurious.

The 787 has on-board LED lighting and a broad variety of channels to choose from.....

[RAS_2001]

The 787 has on-board LED lighting and a broad variety of channels to choose from.....
Yes, however the LED lighting on the A350 looks a lot better in many ways. Also, I find the 787 is a little too over cramped, and the screens are nowhere near as impressive as the A350, which has a wider and sleeker layout from what I can see.
If you're travelling on business class, the Cirrus seats provide a lot more legroom conpared to the 787, so in turn you feel a lot more comfortable and relaxed rather than on a 788 or for that matter 789.

[CabinCrewe]

is there still financial issues hanging over Hainan and are they serious eg likely to ultimately impact on UK ops. Seems issues around funding of some previously ordered aircraft.

[LAX_LHR]

6 new Easyjet routes this winter.

Lisbon (already announced)
Bordeaux (long overdue, been unserved for a very long time ex-MAN)
Barcelona and Faro (been obvious omissions from the MAN Easyjet network for a long time)
Innsbruck and Lanzarote (2 more good choices).

[easyflyer83]

Equates to an additional 5 based aircraft over the next 12 months.

[LAX_LHR]

Easyjet have confirmed MAN will see 5 more based aircraft, making it the largest operation in the U.K. outside of London.

2 more aircraft based this winter, 3 next summer making 17 based in total. Ali Gayward has also said this will be the largest single base increase on the network for 2019.

[AndrewH52]

Equates to an additional 5 based aircraft over the next 12 months.

Not quite sure how you get to that number? 14 flights a week is barely enough to keep one aircraft occupied. Surely this is just making the most of capacity added this summer?

[MKY661]

Great news about the Expansion, hopefully we'll see an increase in GIB flights too.

Hopefully Jet2 will have moved more flights over to T2 though, otherwise T1 is gonna be manic!

[easyflyer83]

Not quite sure how you get to that number? 14 flights a week is barely enough to keep one aircraft occupied. Surely this is just making the most of capacity added this summer?


sorry, I was referring to the overall base expansion. Worded incorrectly.

[AndrewH52]

sorry, I was referring to the overall base expansion. Worded incorrectly.


No worries. I’ve seen the press release now. Surely something had to give somewhere - T1 is bursting at the seams as it is and trying to add 1.5m pax in one hit sounds like a recipe for chaos. It’s making the terminal expansion even less fit for purpose than it already is.

[Ringwayman]

5 or 6 Jet2 aircraft to go fron T1 to T2 will help matters

[The96er]

Aren't TCX penciled in for a move to T2 when the new extension opens ? - even with TCX/Jet2 moving Ops to T2, parking space will very limited across the airport for next summer. No doubt there will be further increases from RYR/Jet2/CFE/TCX etc.. in due course too.

[Northsky]

As a consumer in the north-west, I don't feel today's announcement is as good as what everyone is making out. None of these are routes that Easyjet haven't served from the north-west before, or currently do.

Take for example Lisbon. That route actually has Easyjets highest load factor out of Liverpool (I know its not the be all and end all but a good sign of its success). They now appear to be discontinuing it from there and moving it to Manchester, where they will take on TAP and Ryanair. Not only do I have one less airport to choose from when flying to Lisbon but there's a risk TAP could reduce its frequency/withdraw.

This is nothing new, and a similar pattern with Bordeaux, Innsbruck etc. As a fare paying passenger I just feel competition and choice are being whittled down from this region a little bit each year (even with Blackpool closing a few years ago, not Easyjets fault!).

I know why they do it, get more of a monopoly on something you can charge more per seat!

On the other hand, as for Barcelona, Faro and Lanzarote, I think it might just make prices more competitive between Jet2 and Ryanair. Not likely to affect any legacy or smaller carriers. In that sense I suppose that type of competition will benefit the local consumer.

[AndrewH52]

5 or 6 Jet2 aircraft to go fron T1 to T2 will help matters

Will it? T2 at capacity at peak times too and the next phase of construction is likely to be much more disruptive.

[Mr A Tis]

30 UK airports rated for service to passengers with a disability: 16 very good, 10 good, 3 need improvements and 1 poor ow.ly/rDYN50hXScL #AccessToAir

New report from the CAA on disability- Guess which airport was rated poor (2nd year running)

i don,t know how the airport will cope with further new routes as it really is struggling to handle the traffic it already has.
Having made record profits there really is no excuse on providing a better passenger experience, disabled or otherwise.

come on Manchester, this is getting embarrassing being bottom of almost every survey going.
you are destroying the reputation of what was a great airport.

[Mister Geezer]

In fact the CAA ranked MAN at the bottom. The article below is an interesting read for those interested.

Four airports found to be failing disabled passengers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44807283

[RAS_2001]

TUI have announced that they are starting direct flights from Manchester to Aqaba, Muscat, and Langkawi in Malaysia, I would imagine that LGK would even a seasonal destination, unsure about the other 2.

[pholling]

30 UK airports rated for service to passengers with a disability: 16 very good, 10 good, 3 need improvements and 1 poor ow.ly/rDYN50hXScL #AccessToAir

New report from the CAA on disability- Guess which airport was rated poor (2nd year running)

i don,t know how the airport will cope with further new routes as it really is struggling to handle the traffic it already has.
Having made record profits there really is no excuse on providing a better passenger experience, disabled or otherwise.

come on Manchester, this is getting embarrassing being bottom of almost every survey going.
you are destroying the reputation of what was a great airport.

The CAA report is crap, i.e. so poorly written that it boarders on arbitrary. However, it seems MAN clearly has or has had issues with the handling of disabled passengers. It is also pretty clear that the airlines are probably even worse. I would guess that there are some airlines that are much worse than others and are also much less likely to be willing to pay for quality service at an airport. Smaller airports tend to do better, and this may be because they are 'minimum gauge' on the service, where as the larger airports are much more dependent on specific staffing levels. Incidentally, this isn't a survey and the CAA doesn't make directly, accessible reference to the passenger satisfaction survey results for individual airports, just the industry as a whole.

[chaps1954]

Northsky I think you will find that most of those routes were ex Monarch ones and have been crying out for someone to step in and take them on,
Easyjet were trying to get them up and going this year but it proved just too difficult so this should put us back where we were before the demise of Monarch
I am suprised they are moving the Lisbon from Liverpool but maybe they think they can make more money or they had a gap to fill

Ian

[LAX_LHR]

One of the issues is that OCS has a monopoly on PRM assistance, thus, the desire to provide a decent service dwindles. Prime example being one particular night when a Lourdes flight was operating (pretty much full PRM flight) and OCS thought it was appropriate to have just 4 members of staff present on the whole Airport site. This is why service suffers. I’m not making excuses as it needs to be sorted, but, it just gives a snapshot as to what the issue is.

Its not the fault of the airlines, as on my travels I haven’t personally seen an airline that handles the full PRM experience in house, so, unfair to say they are worse. They can only work with the tools being provided, and in many cases, they are inadequate for the job.

[pholling]

Will it? T2 at capacity at peak times too and the next phase of construction is likely to be much more disruptive.


All depends on what MAN does with their capacity declarations. If the terminal is oversubscribed at specific times then some flights will have to move to other times. Incidentally, T2, according to the ACL S18 start report, is nowhere near it's declared passenger capacity for any point in the day, both arrivals and departures and 60 and 120 min capacities. T1 and T3 have times when they are either are or, very briefly, just over their capacities. Of course the MAN may be declaring way too much capacity, especially if the next phase is more disruptive.

[Flightrider]

One of the issues is that OCS has a monopoly on PRM assistance

EU1107/2006 removed the responsibility of PRM provision from airlines individually - who used to be able to contract with any of a range of competing suppliers - and handed that responsibility to airports, who by and large have contracted with a single supplier for their entire PRM requirements, the costs of which are then met by a PRM levy on every passenger's ticket. All of the airports assessed in this year's CAA report have a monopoly provider for PRM assistance so it's a level playing field - and one backed by EU regs - in that respect. I think there are a couple of airports where the operator provides the service with its own staff, but for the mostpart, it is contracted out to third parties who are then managed (or not) by the airport operator.

Having flown through MAN T3, EMA and STN all in the last month, there is a common theme through all three of a total lack of customer service. For balance, I've also flown through GLA, EDI, LHR, LGW too, all of which have been far better. I find the MAG airports to be poor in comparison. Security queues at all three are routinely longer than anywhere else; they are still paying people to shout at you for daring to look at your mobile phone when in the lengthy queue; there is a lack of airside seating particularly in MAN T3 and even basics like cleaning and toilet checks are poor - EMA this week was a disgrace. I don't know if they have someone in MAG responsible group-wide for security and customer services, but if they have, the individual needs to be replaced by someone competent. Other airports are managing infrastructure and big construction projects well, alongside delivering a customer experience on a day-to-day basis. Grand though MAG's future plans are - and I'm sure they will improve things - there are still several million passengers going through their airports in the meantime for whom the experiences are pretty grim. I'm not surprised they're bottom of every league table going - it reflects the customer reality of all three airports today.

[DP.]

The CAA report is crap, i.e. so poorly written that it boarders on arbitrary. However, it seems MAN clearly has or has had issues with the handling of disabled passengers. It is also pretty clear that the airlines are probably even worse. I would guess that there are some airlines that are much worse than others and are also much less likely to be willing to pay for quality service at an airport. Smaller airports tend to do better, and this may be because they are 'minimum gauge' on the service, where as the larger airports are much more dependent on specific staffing levels. Incidentally, this isn't a survey and the CAA doesn't make directly, accessible reference to the passenger satisfaction survey results for individual airports, just the industry as a whole.

However it also states that, 1) the stats provided by the airport demonstrate poor performance and 2) that the airport accepted that their performance has been unacceptable.

You can dismiss it as 'crap', but the fact is that this is yet another piece of evidence which correlates with an ongoing pattern of poor service and increasing customer dissatisfaction.

[pholling]

However it also states that, 1) the stats provided by the airport demonstrate poor performance and 2) that the airport accepted that their performance has been unacceptable.

You can dismiss it as 'crap', but the fact is that this is yet another piece of evidence which correlates with an ongoing pattern of poor service and increasing customer dissatisfaction.

I actually provides almost no stats. The Executive summary contains information that is not present in the main body of the report, let alone expanded upon. Yes, the airports all have admitted to issues, but given the CAA has an enforcement role, there is an incentive to do so. In the case of Manchester, there is/was a clear issue with understaffing and as a result wait times compared to the 'targets' set by the CAA. We aren't told what those targets are or what the basis for them is, so it is effectively impossible to determine if they were actually 'correct' in the first place. That said, you are correct that there a significant signs of issues with poor performance in a number of areas at MAN, but the data presented is so poorly done that you cannot definitely say they exist. As for increasing customer dissatisfaction, at least in the CAA report there is no evidence of such, just evidence that the airport remains at 'Poor' on their criteria list. Keep in mind according to Appendix B and airport could rate poor and actually have very low dissatisfaction percentages.

[pholling]

EU1107/2006 removed the responsibility of PRM provision from airlines individually - who used to be able to contract with any of a range of competing suppliers - and handed that responsibility to airports, who by and large have contracted with a single supplier for their entire PRM requirements, the costs of which are then met by a PRM levy on every passenger's ticket. All of the airports assessed in this year's CAA report have a monopoly provider for PRM assistance so it's a level playing field - and one backed by EU regs - in that respect. I think there are a couple of airports where the operator provides the service with its own staff, but for the mostpart, it is contracted out to third parties who are then managed (or not) by the airport operator....


The tension is that the PRM charge is typically negotiated with the airlines. They have a strong incentive to not want to pay any extra and are not the direct subject of the report. In fact the CAA hints that the airlines are often very poor in PRM handling and might be worse than the airports. I would hypothesise that some airlines or groups of airlines are significantly worse than others and this will have a trickle down effect on the airports they serve, especially larger airports.

[DomyDom]

TUI have announced that they are starting direct flights from Manchester to Aqaba, Muscat, and Langkawi in Malaysia, I would imagine that LGK would even a seasonal destination, unsure about the other 2.
Thanks for posting this RAS_2001. Please can you post a link to the source as I can't find the announcement online. Presumably Aqaba and Muscat are charter flights as they don't appear to be bookable?

[DP.]

I actually provides almost no stats. The Executive summary contains information that is not present in the main body of the report, let alone expanded upon. Yes, the airports all have admitted to issues, but given the CAA has an enforcement role, there is an incentive to do so. In the case of Manchester, there is/was a clear issue with understaffing and as a result wait times compared to the 'targets' set by the CAA. We aren't told what those targets are or what the basis for them is, so it is effectively impossible to determine if they were actually 'correct' in the first place. That said, you are correct that there a significant signs of issues with poor performance in a number of areas at MAN, but the data presented is so poorly done that you cannot definitely say they exist. As for increasing customer dissatisfaction, at least in the CAA report there is no evidence of such, just evidence that the airport remains at 'Poor' on their criteria list. Keep in mind according to Appendix B and airport could rate poor and actually have very low dissatisfaction percentages.

I know it doesn't provide the stats, but as I said in my previous post, it states that the data provided by MAN demonstrates poor performance on waiting times and that they accept it is an issue (regardless of whether you think the targets are 'correct', or what you suggest their motivation for doing so is).

To be clear I am not saying that this report, in itself, can be held up as quantitative evidence (albeit that the summary does suggest it) of the dissatisfaction. It does however very much correlate with the wider pattern of dissatisfaction at the service which at this point is clearly undeniable.

[Flightrider]

The tension is that the PRM charge is typically negotiated with the airlines.

The costs of the service are negotiated between the airport and the PRM provider. The airport then divides the total cost by the number of passengers it expects to come through its doors and levies a per passenger fee. It is normally ringfenced from the normal commercial negotiations between airports and airlines as to what the airline pays to use the airport. The airline influence over the PRM element of costs is probably the lowest of any component of the fees and charges paid by any airline at any airport. The Manchester PRM charge per departing passenger is already towards the upper end of the scale for major airports (although not the highest). It doesn't seem to correlate to the service being provided also being at the upper end of the scale. Either way, the ball is firmly in the airport's court to fix it.

[RAS_2001]

Thanks for posting this RAS_2001. Please can you post a link to the source as I can't find the announcement online. Presumably Aqaba and Muscat are charter flights as they don't appear to be bookable?
http://book.manchesterairport.co.uk/Info/MAN/Schedules
This is the link which clearly shows Aqaba and Langkawi, with also new direct route to Thailand Pattaya U-Tapao

[BHX5DME]

These wereThomson cruise flights announced a while ago
BHX has similar

[DomyDom]

http://book.manchesterairport.co.uk/Info/MAN/Schedules
This is the link which clearly shows Aqaba and Langkawi, with also new direct route to Thailand Pattaya U-Tapao
Thanks RAS_2001

[DomyDom]

These wereThomson cruise flights announced a while ago
BHX has similar

Thanks for the info BHX5DME. I thought that was probably the case.

[LAX_LHR]

Eurowings increase DUS-MAN from 3 daily (Mon-Fri) to 4 daily starting 11th November.

[RAS_2001]

Apologies for misleading you Dom, the article didn't say whether or not it was new cruise destinations or airline destinations. You can easily mistake one for the other...

[LFC22]

Just recently passed in and out of security at T2, what a refreshing change and a genuinely pleasant experience. Flying out, I was in security for no more than five minutes and the staff were surprisingly cheery and helpful. Inbound today from Doha, the queue did look quite long but it was fast moving as all the passport barriers were open. It was actually quicker than Changi security. Hats off to T2.

Also agree on the previous points that it is great to see Qatar switch to the A350. Having flown on both this week, it is a much superior aircraft in every way.

[ZOOKER]

LAX_LHR........More services,,,,..Constantly turning the screws on an already overloaded airport.

[chaps1954]

A lot of things are going to change over next few months with terminal moves, pier 1 on T2 opening in spring

[Mr A Tis]

A lot of things are going to change over next few months with terminal moves, pier 1 on T2 opening in spring

Deck chairs & Titanic springs to mind...

[SWBKCB]

Deck chairs & Titanic springs to mind...

Yeah, all these airlines must be daft, opening routes to an airport that can't cope. :ok:

[RAS_2001]

With the expansion underway i'm sure MAN will be able to handle at least 15 long haul aircraft at once. I would also like to see PVG be available as a direct service are one point in the near future, but we will have to wait and see how things pan out. I would suspect that the four piers would be equally spaced out with an adequate number of gates for each pier. I would imagine at least 10-12 per pier.

[DomyDom]

Apologies for misleading you Dom, the article didn't say whether or not it was new cruise destinations or airline destinations. You can easily mistake one for the other...
Its no problem RAS_2001, thanks for sharing anyway.

[RAS_2001]

Its no problem RAS_2001, thanks for sharing anyway.
Thanks for the reassurance Dom.

[GavinC]

With the expansion underway i'm sure MAN will be able to handle at least 15 long haul aircraft at once. I would also like to see PVG be available as a direct service are one point in the near future, but we will have to wait and see how things pan out. I would suspect that the four piers would be equally spaced out with an adequate number of gates for each pier. I would imagine at least 10-12 per pier.

i make the number of contact gates to be 11, 7 and 8 respectively on piers 1,2,3 at the new T2 although I'm sure that's subject to change

[RAS_2001]

I think we should see Air China commence PVG sometime within the next year, I am not 100% certain however if it does I will be one of the travellers to utilise that direct route on a regular basis.

[pholling]

Just recently passed in and out of security at T2, what a refreshing change and a genuinely pleasant experience. Flying out, I was in security for no more than five minutes and the staff were surprisingly cheery and helpful. Inbound today from Doha, the queue did look quite long but it was fast moving as all the passport barriers were open. It was actually quicker than Changi security. Hats off to T2....

It might be just my timing, but my T2 experiences are almost always light-years better than T1 and T3. I typically get through T2 security with nearly no fuss in about 5 mins. T3 is all over the map and T1 is typically a disaster of moving security areas and rude staff. Of course my T1 oversized bag drop-off 2-weeks ago made security seem sensible. The fact is that T2 is the most undersubscribed terminal from a passenger throughput point of view. Given that it has significant stand availability issues right now, I can see them using it more as the TP components come online, even before the main terminal extension is complete.

[pholling]

The costs of the service are negotiated between the airport and the PRM provider. The airport then divides the total cost by the number of passengers it expects to come through its doors and levies a per passenger fee. It is normally ringfenced from the normal commercial negotiations between airports and airlines as to what the airline pays to use the airport. The airline influence over the PRM element of costs is probably the lowest of any component of the fees and charges paid by any airline at any airport. The Manchester PRM charge per departing passenger is already towards the upper end of the scale for major airports (although not the highest). It doesn't seem to correlate to the service being provided also being at the upper end of the scale. Either way, the ball is firmly in the airport's court to fix it.

If they are charing more than everyone else, or where before the middle of last year, which is the period the CAA report covers, then you are very much correct. In fact it would seem that have gotten their PRM sub-contract really wrong, given the wait time issues. On standards, why doesn't the CAA publish the waiting standards or measures for the different airports. It would seem that this would be very useful.

[LAX_LHR]

Icelandair will increase flights next summer. Instead of the usual drop to 5 weekly in the summer, daily flights will be maintained.

Remains B757 so a nice little increase.

[CabinCrewe]

as summer KEF hugely connecting, doesnt that just steal pax from other Westbound routes?

[Suzeman]

as summer KEF hugely connecting, doesnt that just steal pax from other Westbound routes?

Probably a bit of that but on the other hand stimulating the market.

Anyway, the security queues were in the headlines of the MEN again this morning
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-security-queues-delays-14916738

Meanwhile here is a summation of the woes at the airport at present
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/security-staff-strike-manchester-airport-14914947

All this negative publicity can't be doing the place any good.

[sherburn2LA]

Strikes would cause 'considerable disruption'. How could you tell ?

[Flightlevel001]

When are MAG going to realise that all of this chaos is down to its own failing management? Security has been ‘an absolute joke’ for some time now and initially I had assumed the whole shambolic experience was down to the front line staff members making everyone’s lives a misery. But what’s becoming clear is that this is mainly down to their bats being broken by their bosses. Aging equipment breaking down, and more and more pressure being ratcheted up against them, is there any wonder why there are staff shortages? I’d get another job too...

The latest revenue generating scheme to ‘pay, kiss and fly’ has caused complete chaos that was totally self inflicted.

The staff car park is too far to walk from and the traffic around the area is so strangled that the busses are infrequent and late; regardless if you can get in or out of the place yourself.

Every excuse thats been used in response isn’t to admit their own failings, rather to blame everything else and to trumpet the new (and hopefully improved) Terminal Redevelopment. Which, by the way they had a wonderful opportunity to create an attractive world class building which appears to be starting to resemble dreary grey box complete with an equally aw-inspiring multi-storey carpark-which I’m sure will be very lucrative!

I want to love the place, but these problems simply don’t exist elsewhere to the same extent.

But, hey, it’s expanding, so at least that’s something I suppose. Whether they can cope with it or not.

[GSM763]

A lot of what's going on at the moment reminds me of BAA Heathrow circa 2005/6 'Terminal 5 is coming, that will fix everything, therefore it's fine for things to be awful at the moment'. It was only when T5 opened, fell over and there was a management clearout that things actually started to improve.

[Mr A Tis]

Certainly time some heads rolled. The passengers, the airlines, the CAA & The Dept for Transport - none of them are happy with Manchester Airport at the moment. The only people smiling are the shareholders who have just been paid record dividends. Given that the security screening declared waiting time is 15 minutes- then passengers should be refunded their £5.73 passenger security charge if the airport fails to meet their own target., as you would for a delayed train etc. To get away Scott free charging £11.44pp airport facility fee and a £5.73pp security fee without delivering an acceptable service level needs to end. Time the regulator imposed some penalties- otherwise it's water off a ducks back. Only when the shareholders are affected will anything change.

[andyhargreaves]

Probably a bit of that but on the other hand stimulating the market.

Anyway, the security queues were in the headlines of the MEN again this morning
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-security-queues-delays-14916738

Meanwhile here is a summation of the woes at the airport at present
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/security-staff-strike-manchester-airport-14914947

All this negative publicity can't be doing the place any good.

They’re also getting a lot of unfair negative publicity as a result of cowboy third-party car parking companies losing pax cars or leaving them strewn around local streets to get smashed up or vandalised. Doesn’t help that these cowboys can get away with calling themselves “Manchester Airport Meet and Greet Parking” etc. without actually being affiliated with MAN.

Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of issues and some of the bad publicity is justified. But a lot isn’t, and the MEN seem to have it in for MAN.

[Mr A Tis]

Not from the MEN but the Daily Express, cars vandalised for the second time...https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/990078/manchester-airport-car-park-security. Not parked in cowboy parks but MAG's multi storeys.

[Trav a la]

I’m told by people who were there that T3 security area was in a mess this am. Some passengers missed their flights due to having to queue up for 2 hours which caused some swearing and shouting at security officers.

Unless they get on top of this quickly the next two months could be hell.

[UnderASouthernSky]

The latest revenue generating scheme to ‘pay, kiss and fly’ has caused complete chaos that was totally self inflicted.



What chaos has it caused?

[techair]

UASS from what I've witnessed on a daily basis, it's the usual cheap skate attitude with punters not wanting to pay to drop and stopping just about anywhere, which then has a knock on effect to traffic flows and causing car parks staff extra headaches. Additionally over 10 years since the present security enhancements were brought in I would expect travellers by now to know what they should be doing to speed the queue nad get through security quicker.
Im not saying that all is rosy in the garden with MAN as it is far from it, but from what I see, this time next year things will be far better than at the moment, with huge multi storey car parks in construction, massive overhauls/ upgrades to many of the airport infrastructures (gas, electric, comms, fuel etc) MAN TP progressing and SEMMS getting towards an opening date, these projects alone will make a very big difference.
One last point, I think that too many managers who actually know what they are doing in running an airport have been seconded to MAN TP, leaving an operational experience imbalance across the whole business. Once some of the secondments have concluded, the experienced staff will be back to their regular duties hopefully putting things back in place.

[ZOOKER]

techair, what exactly do you mean by SEMMS getting towards an opening date?

Also, assuming no BREXIT/World economic calamatitties, next year, there will doubtless be more passengers/customers/punters. These will be arriving/departing on all the new services enthusiastically trumpeted on here by LAX-LHR and his chums.

That means more cars, in addition to those which will pitch-up on Ringway Road West when the A6MARR opens.

It's nothing to do with the cheap-skate attitude of punters not wanting to pay to drop off. Why on Earth should they have to? You can park at The Trafford Centre, Cheadle Royal and Handforth Dean for hours on end without paying a penny.

The only folk who would wish to say at EGCC for hours on end, (apart from the staff), are aircraft enthusiasts, such as LAX-LHR, and his chums.

[LAX_LHR]

Zooker.

i have you on ignore but been shown the post via another member and it has been reported. Your bullying tirade is becoming nothing short of childish, tiresome and pathetic. Funny how anonymity makes people braver, bet you wouldn’t say boo to a goose in reality.

[ZOOKER]

Not bullying at all LAX. Very sad to learn you feel that way. Having spent most of my working life in aviation, I found a sense of humour, and a resilience to having fun poked at you, to be essential requirements, 'in the field'.

I'll buy you a beer sometime.

[chaps1954]

Zooker
The thing is you have to pay at most airports now to drop off or pick up passengers, I don`t agree with it but if the likes of airlines didn`t demand cuts on all service provided by the airport
we wouldn`t have this situation of having to pay for everything
All everybody thinks of now is price and once its down it is very difficult to get back up, I know as I work in retail and could see what was going to happen after the crash post 2008
and it`s hurting a lot

[Mr A Tis]

Chaps- you have to pay at most airports to drop off..

That should say most UK airports- rare anywhere else in the world part of rip off UK.
as for airlines screwing the airport how come Manchester has just made record profits and paid record dividends.?

Given that on top of the APD paid to the Exchequer (one of the highest in the world) im also paying MAN £11.44 facility fee to use the place and also £5.73 to use the security- there isn’t a financial requirement to install a turnstile on entering the doors.
so, for over 17 quid I don’t expect to be stood in a queue for 2 hours, have nowhere to sit & use a dirty toilet with broken locks.

T1 duty free shop lost £800 of my business last month as I did not have any time to make the purchase after 90 minutes in security.

I have stopped using MAN for domestic flights too.

[techair]

Zooker,
SEMMMS is the overall strategy for road transport across the south eastern part of the conurbation, the A6MARR or MAELR (any publicly funded job must have lots of acronyms- it's the rules) is the dual carriageway that is should be completed by this time next year, this will make a big positive difference to traffic flows to the airport and also the local area as it routes from the A6 east of Hazel Grove right to the front door of the airport.

[LAX_LHR]

Amsterdam Airprt has said it is looking into pick up and drop off charges. I’ve also heard several large airports across Europe are also looking into it as well. It’s no longer just a MAN/UK thing, it’s becoming the new normal.

[MANFOD]

Zooker,
SEMMMS is the overall strategy for road transport across the south eastern part of the conurbation, the A6MARR or MAELR (any publicly funded job must have lots of acronyms- it's the rules) is the dual carriageway that is should be completed by this time next year, this will make a big positive difference to traffic flows to the airport and also the local area as it routes from the A6 east of Hazel Grove right to the front door of the airport.

Are you saying the opening of MAELR (I'm assuming this refers to the A555 by-pass) has now been put back another 9 months, or are you meaning it will be open before then and therefore in place for next summer's peak holiday period at the airport? The latest official revised date I was aware of was something like late summer/early autumn 2018. Mind you, looking at the current status and rate of progress that seems highly doubtful.

The knock-on effect of the delays on this relatively short stretch of road have caused major problems for the airport.

[lexoncd]

Are you saying the opening of MAELR (I'm assuming this refers to the A555 by-pass) has now been put back another 9 months, or are you meaning it will be open before then and therefore in place for next summer's peak holiday period at the airport? The latest official revised date I was aware of was something like late summer/early autumn 2018. Mind you, looking at the current status and rate of progress that seems highly doubtful.

The knock-on effect of the delays on this relatively short stretch of road have caused major problems for the airport.

think about the delays for the staff having to use that route in day after day. Some are considering quitting due to the issues of getting to work.

[ZOOKER]

techair, just testing. I've been following the progress of both the A6MARR and SEMMMS, (South-East Manchester Multi-Modal Strategy) with interest since they began. I doubt whether the A6MARR will be open along it's full length this year, the section around Bramhall is far from complete. Knowing the local councils, they'll want to open it in one go, accompanied by lots of trumpet blowing and flag-waving. It needs to be opened as each section is completed, road-users in that area have suffered enough. With the continuing airport expansion, coupled with the developments at 'Airport City' and the 15,000 new houses proposed along it's length, it will fill up with traffic fairly quickly. Transport/traffic modelling is often spectacularly wrong, and the volumes of road traffic nationwide have grown markedly in the last 5 years. Just listen to Radio 2's hourly traffic reports.
When the SEMMMS strategy documents were published, I can't remember any proposals to introduce charging for motorists accessing any of the region's planned transport 'nodes'. The concept of a road/air/bus/train/tram interchange at Ringway is a splendid idea. I remember messrs Twigg and Muirhead proudly proclaiming "Manchester Airport has a brand-new GTI". (Ground Transport Interchange,- another acronym for you, techair). With the continuing reduction in bus access, 'Rip-Off Ringway' has decided to impose a further 'tax' on those who must use their 'GTI's to access the railway station.

[techair]

Zooker, for the sake of fairness if people live very local to the airport and the GTI would be classed as their local railway station, by way of a simple registration, drop off at the GTI forecourt is free of charge within forecourt allowed time constraints.
I fully agree with you that the new ******* (MAELR or put your own acronym here) bypass will very quickly fill up with vehicles from all the planned development along its route, as witnessed on the A34 bypass which is now basically full and there are frequent jams on the original bypassed routes. The number of lanes and types of intersections of the new MAELR has also severely limited its effectiveness and capacity in years to come.
All that said, I still believe that by this time next year the whole airport experience will have improved markedly if the decision makers and managers who understand how the airport operates are back in their natural positions, if not then we should expect more knee jerk solutions to self inflicted problems.
One big positive is that across the piste most of MAN's airline customers and service partners see the positives and are very willing to invest heavily with new routes, equipment and facilities.

[techair]

MANFOD, I am totally in agreement with you regarding the opening of the acronym bypass, it looks very suspect in several locations. Using a military acronym "7P" looks rather irrelevant in this instance, wrong drainage, Carillion and flooding have all played their part in the delays, question is, is there more to come. If not, I think the traffic situation around and to the airport will be hugely improved by this time next year.

[RAS_2001]

Any idea on who or if Zagreb will come back on the equation? That is at least from where monarch left a gaping hole as well as other European destinations which we've lost.

[chaps1954]

Techair I think the flooding problem was caused by the original part of the road not the new but was just found out when the new section was added

[UnderASouthernSky]

Given that on top of the APD paid to the Exchequer (one of the highest in the world) im also paying MAN £11.44 facility fee to use the place and also £5.73 to use the security- there isn’t a financial requirement to install a turnstile on entering the doors.
so, for over 17 quid I don’t expect to be stood in a queue for 2 hours, have nowhere to sit & use a dirty toilet with broken locks.



You don't pay MAN, you pay that charge to the airline. There is then a contract in place between the airport and the airline which determines how much of those costs ultimately go to the airport. I can imagine that it's a very small percentage for a carrier like Ryanair at some airports, possibly including MAN.

[chaps1954]

This is the problem so little goes from the airline to use airport that money has to be made in other ways, the was a guy on another forum money like hell that he wouldn`t pay £75 return incl taxes to BCN not from MAN I might add, that is hardly going to make the airline much money let alone the airport I paid more than that 30 years ago.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

You can't do the "7P" rule, MAG don't do planning.

[ZOOKER]

From the SEMMMS/A6MARR Website, the current state of the project (July 2018) at Styal Road......https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1245x771/sr2_75b5f8ba743af7c21c0ab7f962a2ce42664409eb.png

[ZOOKER]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1423x882/hf_jul_18_e7fe6c1fee67a41d4668fd0c64aef73304480b9d.png
The old A34 at Handforth Flats.

[ZOOKER]

And Woodford Road, Bramhall. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1251x775/wr2_4de5b0bb092ce14875a0375b723b057f2f951db9.png

[Curious Pax]

While I share your pessimism about the new road opening by the advertised ‘late summer’, which gives them 2 months, it’s worth saying that the last stages of a new road can happen very quickly if it’s mainly tarmacing and putting up a few lampposts and roadsigns. The new road layout at the top of the motorway spur at MAN seemed to go from a mess to opening in a matter of days. That said my money’s on Christmas.....

[NRU74]

One of the problems approaching Manchester Airport from Styal is that if you follow the signs for T1 and T2 it takes you past the Airport pub which is a real snarl up particularly at weekends and Bank Holidays with drinkers and spotters queueing to get in their car park.
Once the new access road is opened people would be well advised not to turn left off Ringway Rd but to overshoot it and continue to the next set of junctions.

[Mr A Tis]

UASS

http://mag-umbraco-media-live.s3.amazonaws.com/1001/man-fees-and-charges-booklet-2018_19.pdf

The fees on your ticket can be directly broken down & if it says you are paying MAN you will be paying MAN -the airline is merely a collector. It would be deception for an airline to charge you a PSC and then not pass it on in full.

[RVF750]

The thing I don't get, and no doubt someone will try to correct me, is the airport benefits from foot fall in the airside shopping areas. If they constantly expect folk to stand in the queues in security for 45 mins to an hour, they lose out substantially on sales post security. I went through T2 the other week for an 09:00 flight. Checked in at 06:30 and only just made it. Planned to stop and eat breakfast there and though not much, it was another lost sale. T3 is a nightmare, with only half the X ray lanes open at peak evening rush hour too. Surely more staff = more passengers through early to spend money on food and gifts?

Rocket science it is not. Annoying it is.

[Stevenagesaint]

The airport also are offering click and collect for part of the duty free so that is one way the airport is looking at still giving you options for duty free when time is tight

[ZOOKER]

I see their Facebook page is advising passengers to arrive between 2 and 3 hours before departure, depending on destination. For an 0600 T/O that's an 0300 arrival time.......Nice!

[SQ380]

While I share your pessimism about the new road opening by the advertised ‘late summer’, which gives them 2 months, it’s worth saying that the last stages of a new road can happen very quickly if it’s mainly tarmacing and putting up a few lampposts and roadsigns. The new road layout at the top of the motorway spur at MAN seemed to go from a mess to opening in a matter of days. That said my money’s on Christmas.....


Yes I agree with all that once the new A555 extension is open it will relieve a lot of the traffic problems around the airport currently

But in the long term it's bad planning typical UK no forward planning, the A555 extension will eventually extend from Hazel Grove to Bredbury this has been planned then shelved too many times over the last 40 years or more, the original plan was for it to be motorway from Bredbury to Manchester Airport which would then give Stockport it's own miniature orbital motorway, but more importantly it would take traffic off the M60/M56 which everyday tails back from Cheadle to Denton each rush hour and also tails back from M56 Lymm to Stockport everyday (even tonight I passed the cargo turn off at 4pm and got off the M60 at Portwood at 4.45pm a drive that would take no more than 5 minutes at less busy times)
When the new A555 opens it will be OK, but if and when the extension opens to Bredbury it will become horrendous, it will then be used for traffic coming from East Manchester and beyond heading to wales or M6 to avoid going through the bottle neck of Stockport in the rush hour,there's already too many roundabouts or lights on the new road especially at Poynton garden centre this will build up delays with locals also using the new road instead of building with bridges/slip roads (yes roundabouts/lights are cheaper) this will only become how the A34 Handforth bypass is now queues and more queues

[Suzeman]

Yes I agree with all that once the new A555 extension is open it will relieve a lot of the traffic problems around the airport currently

But in the long term it's bad planning typical UK no forward planning, the A555 extension will eventually extend from Hazel Grove to Bredbury this has been planned then shelved too many times over the last 40 years or more, the original plan was for it to be motorway from Bredbury to Manchester Airport which would then give Stockport it's own miniature orbital motorway, but more importantly it would take traffic off the M60/M56 which everyday tails back from Cheadle to Denton each rush hour and also tails back from M56 Lymm to Stockport everyday (even tonight I passed the cargo turn off at 4pm and got off the M60 at Portwood at 4.45pm a drive that would take no more than 5 minutes at less busy times)
When the new A555 opens it will be OK, but if and when the extension opens to Bredbury it will become horrendous, it will then be used for traffic coming from East Manchester and beyond heading to wales or M6 to avoid going through the bottle neck of Stockport in the rush hour,there's already too many roundabouts or lights on the new road especially at Poynton garden centre this will build up delays with locals also using the new road instead of building with bridges/slip roads (yes roundabouts/lights are cheaper) this will only become how the A34 Handforth bypass is now queues and more queues

Wow - all in three sentences...:ok:

The Bredbury extension has just been kicked into the long grass again, so it won't be happening for many years if at all - see here.
A6 to M60 Relief Road Statement SEMMMS (http://www.semmms.info/a6-to-m60-relief-road-statement/)
which contains this snippet (my bold) -

At the December meeting of Full Council, it was also agreed that a request be made to government to fund this next stage of business case development work, with the aim of undertaking the work in time for the next phase of large local major scheme bidding which was indicated to be later on this year. DfT have advised us that they have no current plans to fund feasibility work.

We will continue to work closely with DfT and TfGM to explore potential future funding opportunities to develop the proposal and develop the next stage of the business case. If there are no resources identified for feasibility work in the short term we will need to consider funding following the outcome of the SEMMMS refresh.

I wonder about all the traffic using the A34 / A6 which will now come past the Airport to access the M56 / M60 instead of going into Stockport or Cheadle. Of course there is no grade separation at the Airport save for the T2 roundabout. But no doubt the Highways engineers have done all their modelling...:hmm:

And Curious Pax noted That said my money’s on Christmas..... but of course didn't say which year....;)

[inOban]

Can I remind everyone of the first rule of traffic management: traffic expands to fill the space available. These new roads will be just as congested as the old.

And I expect that the bus services are being destroyed because, so long as they have share space with other vehicles, they are unable to deliver a reliable timetable.

[Mr A Tis]

The airport also are offering click and collect for part of the duty free so that is one way the airport is looking at still giving you options for duty free when time is tight

Have you used click and collect?

From my previous experience, you still have to queue at the check out- then there is a lot of faffing with paperwork- even more so if you want to collect on return. It's quicker to pick the item off the shelf.

My last trip through T1 saw almost every single shop empty- I had planned spending £800 in Dixons- but no time ( even though I arrived at airport 2.5 hours before departure)

[Caravaggio]

The duty free shops and food outlets presumably pay massive rents to MAG. If their passenger footfall at MAN amounts solely to a run through to reach the gate on time then won’t they also be giving MAG management grief?

[azz767]

Anyone know what took Liverpool out to Charlotte this morning, I’m sure it was VS but fr24 is showing nothing

[Scottie Dog]

Anyone know what took Liverpool out to Charlotte this morning, I’m sure it was VS but fr24 is showing nothing

You're correct it was VS and was A340 G-VRED I believe.

[RAS_2001]

You're correct it was VS and was A340 G-VRED I believe.
You are spot on there Scottie Dog.

[UnderASouthernSky]

UASS

http://mag-umbraco-media-live.s3.amazonaws.com/1001/man-fees-and-charges-booklet-2018_19.pdf

The fees on your ticket can be directly broken down & if it says you are paying MAN you will be paying MAN -the airline is merely a collector. It would be deception for an airline to charge you a PSC and then not pass it on in full.

Okay, well even if the airline genuinely passes on the full charge to the airport (sure it doesn't happen for every carrier), the airport will then offer an agreed discount or refund to many airlines per passenger in line with a contract which negates some or all of that fee. All comes to the same thing for the airport, whereby they hope to instead drive revenue from pasengers from car parks and retail (And drop off?!)
It doesn't happen at LHR, or other regulated airports where fees & charges are non-negotiable, but will happen at most regional airports I'd say.

[MancMoose]

You're correct it was VS and was A340 G-VRED I believe.

The plane was indeed G-VRED, Scarlett Lady A340-600. Nothing MAJORLY fancy inside (for people on £80,000 + per week)!
The best part (or worst as a Manc), was the awfully tacky white leather headrest covers emblazoned with the liverpool crest, and liverpool FC Summer 2018.
Seems the only people to chat, even for a few seconds, were Milner, Rush, Fowler, & Klopp (who was a good egg). Rest were heads down, cap on, hood up, & earphones in.
I thought a 03.00 departure was because they didn't want to bee seen flying from our fantastic city but, and it makes sense, I was told it's because they play less than 48 hours later and this time slot reduces jet-lag.

[ZOOKER]

Why do you need a 300+ seat aircraft for 20 people?

[Rutan16]

ZOOKER forgetting the trainers medics personal coaches media advertisers and certainly a few price winners of one sort or another including kids from the club scouts.

Plenty of Hangers on to fill the back end of the bus so to speak

At least it nominally British rather than Greek , Maltese, Malaysian, Turkish or from the sandpit be thankful for that !

[Trav a la]

Fridays Cathay A350 seems to have had a serious hydraulic leak during landing and is still being repaired today.

Incident: Cathay Pacific A359 near Manchester on Jul 20th 2018, hydraulic leak (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bb76275&opt=0)

[LAX_LHR]

There is also a PIA B77W now spending its 3rd day at MAN too. Not sure what the issue was with that one.

[Scottie Dog]

All images are courtesy of PlaneTalk, Issue 51, to whom full credit is given

I would politely request that you do not copy to any other forums or threads. Thank you.

https://image.ibb.co/dooREJ/Screenshot_20180720_185656.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c2HxMy/Screenshot_20180720_185736.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/d8s8Td/Screenshot_20180720_190112.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/eAN8Td/Screenshot_20180720_190224.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bHq6EJ/Screenshot_20180720_190253.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bTdF8d/Screenshot_20180720_190316.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kFecMy/Screenshot_20180720_190414.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ejHKZJ/Screenshot_20180720_190436.jpg

[azz767]

I would also imagine the A340 is the aircraft with the lowest utilisation in the VS fleet so was the easiest choice available

[LAX_LHR]

Nice chance to catch a Lufthansa widebody at MAN, been a while since the last one. A340-600 D-AIHI due 1640 for paint.

[Ringway Roy]

What chaos has it caused?

The T1 arrivals car park has certainly been chaotic when I've seen it whilst passing through over the last couple of weeks. Since they've completely outlawed (on pain of a £100 fine) pick ups from the forecourts, it is now completely clogged with taxis and other cars to the extent that they're queuing all the way round the car park back to the entrance and out on to the road. The result is traffic worse than it was before they introduced these changes.

I don't think at this point that anyone truly believes that the real goal is to reduce congestion. If they really thought the drop-off car park was to be a viable alternative, the bus service would be more frequent than every 15 minutes, and they would also allow its use for pick ups.

The charges introduced are something which would be more readily accepted by passengers were it not for the experience that greets them inside the airport. Day after day it's long queues for security, passport control (I know UKBF are responsible, but are MAN management truly powerless to do anything about what is a long-standing issue?), taxis on arrival and various other issues.

The excuses like one security lane out of service being the reason for the horrendous queues recently simply don't ring true. I'm a regular passenger through T1, and I can't remember the last time more than 75% of the lanes were open, let alone all of them. One of the lifts up to the T1 car park was out of service this morning, leaving that whole area packed to the gills with people queuing for the other two. I've just returned from being away for a few days, but was told by someone that it has been like that for over a week.

People can blame the airlines for the fees (or lack of) that they pay, but that comes down to what MAN management have agreed. Passenger numbers have grown by 40% in the last five years. That has unquestionably led to an increase in revenue for the airport, but it certainly isn't reflected in the passenger experience (unlike the dividends that are being paid out) at present. The new T2 project is very welcome but it's not a panacea. It almost feels like they've simply given up in the mean time and are willing to ride it out until T2 comes online, but that isn't going to solve issues of management.