Manchester-2

[4runner]

The fallout from Thomas Cook continues.

Ground handling agents Aviator are to close the MAN station on 22nd October.

the agents were still playing like the band on the titanic. Solid peeps.

[EZYMAN]

With Air Arabia closing the AGA base looks like no flights are bookable from 24th MAN-AGA

[Scottie Dog]

I had heard rumours a while ago that the route would be suspended/closed from the end of Summer 2019.

[EZYMAN]

Seems to be true as the whole AGA base is closing

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/82087-air-arabia-maroc-to-close-agadir-base-in-4q19

[TURIN]

The fallout from Thomas Cook continues.

Ground handling agents Aviator are to close the MAN station on 22nd October.

Not looking good for CCS either. 85% of their work was TC.

[750XL]

Sad state of affairs all round.

Aviator shutting up shop

CCS cleaners going

Alpha/LSG laid off a load of staff

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #111 dated 7th October 2019 courtesy of MANTP Team to whom full credit is given

Part 1
https://i.ibb.co/c191B5x/Screenshot-392.png

https://i.ibb.co/bFN3JvR/Screenshot-393.png

https://i.ibb.co/VJT7zh0/Screenshot-394.png

https://i.ibb.co/G9dp7dp/Screenshot-395.png

https://i.ibb.co/T1V9L39/Screenshot-396.png

https://i.ibb.co/BzpNYDR/Screenshot-397.png

https://i.ibb.co/rwZgYpt/Screenshot-398.png

https://i.ibb.co/CtDK05t/Screenshot-399.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2

https://i.ibb.co/F3WjSsj/Screenshot-400.png

https://i.ibb.co/ssPDJM8/Screenshot-401.png

https://i.ibb.co/k5YG3qT/Screenshot-402.png

https://i.ibb.co/4VVCBLL/Screenshot-403.png

https://i.ibb.co/7S9JDH2/Screenshot-404.png

https://i.ibb.co/CvDjpzt/Screenshot-405.png

https://i.ibb.co/XzFQ0SW/Screenshot-406.png

https://i.ibb.co/ss6mdrJ/Screenshot-407.png

[Nostoodian]

Two new airlines starting at Manchester. Fly Egypt & Air Baltic.

https://mobile.twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1181601560276750336

https://mobile.twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1181822747074269184

[TURIN]

Hays Travel to buy most of Thomas Cook's shops and re-employ over 2000 staff.

Be nice if the airline could be saved too.

[Nostoodian]

Hays Travel to buy most of Thomas Cook's shops and re-employ over 2000 staff.

Be nice if the airline could be saved too.
What kind of offering does Hay's travel agent offer? Will they be using the Thomas Cook name or rebranding the stores as their own? For instance where I live in Northwich we have a Haye's Travel Agent & a branch of Thomas Cook. Surely one shop will close. It's probably similar in other towns to. Great news though.

[spannersatcx]

What kind of offering does Hay's travel agent offer? Will they be using the Thomas Cook name or rebranding the stores as their own? For instance where I live in Northwich we have a Haye's Travel Agent & a branch of Thomas Cook. Surely one shop will close. It's probably similar in other towns to. Great news though.

There is likely to be some overlap of stores, and the BBC estimates that there are more than 30 locations where there would be two competing High Street branches.

Hays Travel is not like Thomas Cook, which owned hotels and an airline. Pippa Jacks, group editor of Travel Trade Gazette, told the BBC: "They don't have a [large] tour operating arm, they don't have an airline, they don't own hotels or cruise ships… so it makes them quite nimble in terms of what they sell".

Hays is said to have beaten off other bidders, which she said suggested that the package holiday industry was not dead.

"If you're spending a lot of money, if you're not particularly confident and you want some personal recommendations, actually going to see a real human who will sit and listen and take time to understand your personal requirements is very valued by a lot of holidaymakers," she said
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49985369

[mufc4evr]

Hi Guys

Is there any update on one of the indian carriers gaining slots to LHR/MAN? Spicejet or Indigo?

Cheers

[FFMAN]

A lot to be said for travel agents tbh.
I consider myself a very savvy flyer on account of the sheer volume that I have to do. When I want a nice holiday, I'm more than capable of sitting down with a laptop and trawling endless hours over this website and that but you can't beat just sitting in front of a human and saying this is what I want and when,
On business travel I still find I use travel agents to get me a better deal or some angle I hadn't considered even though I use the t'internet to check out possible routings / timings etc

[116d]

A lot to be said for travel agents tbh.
I consider myself a very savvy flyer on account of the sheer volume that I have to do. When I want a nice holiday, I'm more than capable of sitting down with a laptop and trawling endless hours over this website and that but you can't beat just sitting in front of a human and saying this is what I want and when,
On business travel I still find I use travel agents to get me a better deal or some angle I hadn't considered even though I use the t'internet to check out possible routings / timings etc

Indeed. I too consider myself savvy enough to be able to put together my own package and have done so many times, however I suspect "indies" such as Hays are more flexible when it comes to putting together something more bespoke than some of the bigger brands that are more restricted to their own stock.

Even for the exact same itinerary, it can sometimes work out cheaper to book as a package with a travel agent than it is to do it yourself. It would be silly not to dismiss them without seeing what they can come up with.

[Nostoodian]

More Big News. This time TUI adding 2 million extra seats. I wonder where the extra aircraft are coming from considering the problems with the Max.
:
http//travelweekly.co.uk/articles/346122/tui-hikes-ex-uk-capacity-by-two-million-seats (http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/346122/tui-hikes-ex-uk-capacity-by-two-million-seats)

[Betablockeruk]

Hi Guys

Is there any update on one of the indian carriers gaining slots to LHR/MAN? Spicejet or Indigo?

Cheers

I'm surprised that no big announcement came of the Andy B & co visit to India. Even had "Andrew Cowan MAN CEO and Chair of Manchester India Partnership" in the 30+ delegation. I'm thinking that if a service wasn't bagged on this high profile event then things will be a long time coming.

A few MOUs signed but nothing with any airlines. @MCRIndia (https://twitter.com/MCRIndia)

[Scottie Dog]

September passenger statistics

https://i.ibb.co/w01NjHL/Screenshot-408.png
The closure of Thomas Cook has started to have an effect and unfortunately the magic 30 million passenger number may now not be reached until June 2020.

[Adola69]

I'm hearing that the next stage of MAN T2 development may be put back some 6 months or so?

It maybe because of the Thomas Cook failure, but I hear that it could be to do with cash flow and the lack of the readdies?

Perhaps it's time to start diversyfying a little, say by trying to attract a Cargo carrier back again? Buy a scissor lift or two in anticipation of

a surge in Brexit related cargo ops? Just a suggestion, after all the essential snow ploughs are left lying around 95% of the time doing nowt, so why not a Hi-low ?

Turn the Premier Terminal into a Santas Grotto, at £100 a visit - you'd get a super present from Santa.:rolleyes:

Turn a perfectly good Wide-body capabale Hangar / Spray facility into a storage facility for nothing to do with avaition related articles? (Curses, ---- Beaten to it) :ugh:

Contorversial I know but hey-ho !

Now go on, give me both barrells, - I can take it :{

[Matty Rich 83]

I'm hearing that the next stage of MAN T2 development may be put back some 6 months or so?

It maybe because of the Thomas Cook failure, but I hear that it could be to do with cash flow and the lack of the readdies?

Perhaps it's time to start diversyfying a little, say by trying to attract a Cargo carrier back again? Buy a scissor lift or two in anticipation of

a surge in Brexit related cargo ops? Just a suggestion, after all the essential snow ploughs are left lying around 95% of the time doing nowt, so why not a Hi-low ?

Turn the Premier Terminal into a Santas Grotto, at £100 a visit - you'd get a super present from Santa.:rolleyes:

Turn a perfectly good Wide-body capabale Hangar / Spray facility into a storage facility for nothing to do with avaition related articles? (Curses, ---- Beaten to it) :ugh:

Contorversial I know but hey-ho !

Now go on, give me both barrells, - I can take it :{

Well the next stage would be pier 3...there are soon to be (I think) pre ground works for this phase.
Initially the whole of pier 2 was due to be constructed before pier 3, but I heard recently that pier 3 would be constructed in full before the second phase of pier2.
I would be surprised at this turn of events given the funds were all allocated prior...unless I’m not aware of something...

[Matty Rich 83]

Taken from another forum:

Major Site meeting Today
Most work finished by Xmas
MARCH 6TH Laing T2 extension will be signed over to the Airport
LATE SUMMER T2 extension should open.

[Scottie Dog]

Well the next stage would be pier 3...there are soon to be (I think) pre ground works for this phase.
Initially the whole of pier 2 was due to be constructed before pier 3, but I heard recently that pier 3 would be constructed in full before the second phase of pier2.
I would be surprised at this turn of events given the funds were all allocated prior...unless I’m not aware of something...

The original plan was, and I'm ready to be corrected, Pier 3 then 2. There was an OAN issued recently that referred to Ground Tests for Pier 2 - I'll post it on here when I get home. This seems to indicate that Pier 2 May come first, but it's only my interpretation of the wording. Why do tests for Pier 2 before Pier 3?

[Matty Rich 83]

The original plan was, and I'm ready to be corrected, Pier 3 then 2. There was an OAN issued recently that referred to Ground Tests for Pier 2 - I'll post it on here when I get home. This seems to indicate that Pier 2 May come first, but it's only my interpretation of the wording. Why do tests for Pier 2 before Pier 3?

Apologies Scottie Dog, I forgot about that OAN ref pier 2. Yes, initial plan was for pier 3 then pier 2. Who knows what will happen now...

[Scottie Dog]

For those who may be interested the relevant OAN is:

OAN 96/2019 – MAN-TP PIER 2 AIRSIDE SURVEYS
OAN REF:- 96/2018 DATE OF ISSUE:- 02/10/19 EFFECTIVE DATE:- 14/10/19 EXPIRY DATE:- 25/10/19
1.0 SUMMARY
1.1 A series of non-intrusive topographical, GPR and utility surveys will take place in advance of works to construct the new Terminal 2 Pier 2. 2.0 PROGRAMME, LOCATION & OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS
2.1. Overall, from Monday 14th October until Friday 25th October 2019. Working Monday to Friday 09:00- 17:00L
https://i.ibb.co/HFqGvcv/Screenshot-390.png

3.0 SCOPE OF WORKS
3.1 The scope of works is:
• Lifting of service chambers covers for visual inspection and recording of services.
• Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) survey of all areas.
• Topographical survey of all areas.
4.0 PUSHBACK PROCEDURES
4.1 ATC may need to issue non-standard pushback procedures for some Terminal 2 stands when the survey works on Taxiway Delta are in progress.
5.0 LOW VISIBILITY OPERATIONS (LVO)
5.1 The works will have no effect on Low Visibility Procedures. Work in LVPs at the ADMs discretion. -

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #112 dated 12th October 2019 courtesy of the MANTP team to whom full credit is given:

https://i.ibb.co/xCdTRR8/Screenshot-409.png

https://i.ibb.co/hFXBbq4/Screenshot-410.png

https://i.ibb.co/4VqDjBQ/Screenshot-411.png

https://i.ibb.co/864sG3t/Screenshot-412.png

https://i.ibb.co/p2QGxRv/Screenshot-413.png

https://i.ibb.co/t8gc931/Screenshot-414.png

https://i.ibb.co/Y09qWtW/Screenshot-415.png

[Nostoodian]

Great news for Manchester Airport
:
https//mobile.twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1184738902202109954 (https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1184738902202109954)

[ETOPS]

Here's the news item.

http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/346822/jet2-jumps-in-to-plug-thomas-cook-gap-at-manchester-and-birmingham

[zfw]

I have been watching these for weeks this must possibly be the most expensive and outrageous prices for flights ex MAN this is for 2 people, its £700 quid with BA from LGW.

Do Virgin realisticly expect that any one would pay these prices for what is at the most a 1500 quid for 2 flight.

Hope someone else steps in to get rid of this cartel sharpish.Flight Search ResultsSearch DescriptionOutboundflightMANtoBGI
Sort & filterAvailable FlightsFare Comparison
Mon, Dec 30, 2019Direct
VS77 1FootnoteFlight Specific Detailsopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);)


departure airport codeMAN
arrival airport codeBGI
number of stops
Direct
Footnote1 VS 77 is operated by Virgin Atlantic.

From
Economy Classic Cabin Class£3,697.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£7,395.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
Upper ClassCabin class details for this flightopens in new popupopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);) (D)
From
Upper Class Cabin Class£14,792.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£29,585.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
2 left at this price

[toledoashley]

I have been watching these for weeks this must possibly be the most expensive and outrageous prices for flights ex MAN this is for 2 people, its £700 quid with BA from LGW.

Do Virgin realisticly expect that any one would pay these prices for what is at the most a 1500 quid for 2 flight.

Hope someone else steps in to get rid of this cartel sharpish.Flight Search ResultsSearch DescriptionOutboundflightMANtoBGI
Sort & filterAvailable FlightsFare Comparison
Mon, Dec 30, 2019Direct
VS77 1FootnoteFlight Specific Detailsopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);)


departure airport codeMAN
arrival airport codeBGI
number of stops
Direct
Footnote1 VS 77 is operated by Virgin Atlantic.

From
Economy Classic Cabin Class£3,697.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£7,395.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
Upper ClassCabin class details for this flightopens in new popupopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);) (D)
From
Upper Class Cabin Class£14,792.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£29,585.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
2 left at this price

What if its unrealistically high to stop people booking it?

[PDXCWL45]

What if its unrealistically high to stop people booking it?
Or they want people to buy the package from Virgin holidays?

[MANworker]

Hearing rumours of Turkish starting a 3rd flight, night stop with a first wave departure, anybody know if it’s true? Know what rumours are like in this place

[116d]

I have been watching these for weeks this must possibly be the most expensive and outrageous prices for flights ex MAN this is for 2 people, its £700 quid with BA from LGW.

Do Virgin realisticly expect that any one would pay these prices for what is at the most a 1500 quid for 2 flight.

Hope someone else steps in to get rid of this cartel sharpish.

Someone who can do a load check might be able to confirm, but part of that could be down to limited availability. Thomas Cook did operate MAN-BGI and used to carry cruise ship passengers, so it wouldn't surprise me if many of those have been rebooked onto Virgin or TUI out of MAN meaning there's limited availability. LGW also has daily options and multiple flights per day on some days.

For those prices booking at this late on, I'd seriously consider indirect options or take the drive to LGW with an overnight stop.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

I have been watching these for weeks this must possibly be the most expensive and outrageous prices for flights ex MAN this is for 2 people, its £700 quid with BA from LGW.

Do Virgin realisticly expect that any one would pay these prices for what is at the most a 1500 quid for 2 flight.

Hope someone else steps in to get rid of this cartel sharpish.Flight Search ResultsSearch DescriptionOutboundflightMANtoBGI
Sort & filterAvailable FlightsFare Comparison
Mon, Dec 30, 2019Direct
VS77 1FootnoteFlight Specific Detailsopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);)


departure airport codeMAN
arrival airport codeBGI
number of stops
Direct
Footnote1 VS 77 is operated by Virgin Atlantic.

From
Economy Classic Cabin Class£3,697.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£7,395.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
Upper ClassCabin class details for this flightopens in new popupopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);) (D)
From
Upper Class Cabin Class£14,792.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£29,585.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
2 left at this price

It's pretty much block booked by Virgin Holidays.

If you have a look, via ABZ is quite cheap on VS. Don't think they have loaded the ex-BE flights properly.

[160to4DME]

I have been watching these for weeks this must possibly be the most expensive and outrageous prices for flights ex MAN this is for 2 people, its £700 quid with BA from LGW.

Do Virgin realisticly expect that any one would pay these prices for what is at the most a 1500 quid for 2 flight.

Hope someone else steps in to get rid of this cartel sharpish.Flight Search Results

Search DescriptionOutboundflightMANtoBGI


Sort & filterAvailable Flights

Fare Comparison
Mon, Dec 30, 2019Direct
VS77 1FootnoteFlight Specific Detailsopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);)


departure airport codeMAN
arrival airport codeBGI
number of stops
Direct
Footnote1 VS 77 is operated by Virgin Atlantic.

From
Economy Classic Cabin Class£3,697.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£7,395.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
Upper ClassCabin class details for this flightopens in new popupopens in new popup (javascript:void(0);) (D)
From
Upper Class Cabin Class£14,792.96Round tripSelect this Flight (javascript:void(0);)
£29,585.92
Round trip
Total for all passengers
2 left at this price


3 Upper seats left on that flight, which they'll overbook by 5.
6 full fare seats left in Economy which they're showing availability of 9; so you might want to retract your gripe about VS in an act of generous contrition and humility...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/798x103/screenshot_2019_10_23_at_15_28_27_2e78eea158ebb57ba821d870f9 5c6aaca368515a.png

[eggc]

I booked MAN - BGI return in March for Jan 2020, in Premium Economy. We have since also committed to an expensive Florida holiday next year too. In an effort to reduce total costs we called VS last week wanting to chnge seats to BGI to economy expecting a saving, however instead of a considerable saving they actually wanted to charge us an extra £900 for the pleasure of having worse seats ! They openly admitted that TCX's demise was the reason and seats to BGI for the foreseable future would be at a premium, hence worth more.

[FFMAN]

Ha - which is exactly why me and Mrs FFMAN have just decided to can our long promised trip to Barbados. We can afford it but we're not fools.

[zfw]

3 Upper seats left on that flight, which they'll overbook by 5.
6 full fare seats left in Economy which they're showing availability of 9; so you might want to retract your gripe about VS in an act of generous contrition and humility...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/798x103/screenshot_2019_10_23_at_15_28_27_2e78eea158ebb57ba821d870f9 5c6aaca368515a.png

Under what circumstances.? Absolute RIP off regardless of how many seats left they were still over 4 grand 3 weeks ago. As you can see from other comments VS are royally taking the P. No matter how many long haul they lay on unopposed in the future, charge these prices and no one will be going. It will hurt business and people will fly on alternatives, cannot see MAN hierarchy being too chuffed when the footfall doesn't appear at Duty Free.

[Navpi]

http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/347521/virgin-atlantic-plots-manchester-hub-following-thomas-cook-collapse

Never understood why no airline used the Flybe connectivity before.....

[eggc]

I read that with great excitment. With the BEE purchase and the sad TCX demise it didnt take a brain surgeon to figure VS's plans. I do worry a little for some other regional BEE bases though...

[116d]

Under what circumstances.? Absolute RIP off regardless of how many seats left they were still over 4 grand 3 weeks ago. As you can see from other comments VS are royally taking the P. No matter how many long haul they lay on unopposed in the future, charge these prices and no one will be going. It will hurt business and people will fly on alternatives, cannot see MAN hierarchy being too chuffed when the footfall doesn't appear at Duty Free.

That's how airline booking systems work. I'm not passing judgement on whether it's right or not, but most airlines tend to hike prices if there's only a handful of seats left and particularly the closer it gets to the travel date. Also note it's an A332.

[easyflyer83]

It’s simply the yield management system doing its job. The same system that airlines use that often generates stupidly cheap (and loss making fares) which nobody ever complains about.

[FFMAN]

All well and good saying it's 'how it works'. The danger is that Virgin are already known as an expensive airline and this is confirming it big time. This is just a PR disaster for them.
Frankly the product - past their sell by date 747s and 332s don't in any way justify premium fares. Tried both this year alone.
In my opinion TCX long-haul Premium Economy was a better product than VS (other than the awful T1 experience).
If they want to sell their own seats to Virgin Holidays then that's their choice but it's pretty useless for serving the business community or the independent traveller. Basically an expensive version of Thomas Cook.

[chaps1954]

Thought the A332 had a brand new interior and they are only stop gap anyway until all the new metal comes our way.
The way fares are worked is the same all way through retail industry be it rail, shops or on line, lowest prices to get people booking and
as things start to sell well up go the prices and the closer the closing date the higher they go.
The holiday market is a prime target even on Heathrow flights so you cannot ignore it.

[Scottie Dog]

You might also consider that the London area has more flights per destination and therefore may have a glut (I'm not saying hundreds) of seats still to be sold. Manchester has far fewer flights and therefore can, at times, command a higher price.

[chaps1954]

Yes quite right Scottie

[FFMAN]

...which perpetuates the coninuous flow of people down to London even when there are direct flights from MAN.
Not only economic madness but environmental irresponsibility.

[116d]

All well and good saying it's 'how it works'. The danger is that Virgin are already known as an expensive airline and this is confirming it big time. This is just a PR disaster for them.
Frankly the product - past their sell by date 747s and 332s don't in any way justify premium fares. Tried both this year alone.
In my opinion TCX long-haul Premium Economy was a better product than VS (other than the awful T1 experience).
If they want to sell their own seats to Virgin Holidays then that's their choice but it's pretty useless for serving the business community or the independent traveller. Basically an expensive version of Thomas Cook.

To be fair, other airlines have been under scrutiny for sudden hikes. I remember the Liverpool Metro Mayor giving easyJet some heat when they hiked the prices up on the Liverpool-Madrid route to fares around £1,500 return as soon as it was confirmed Liverpool FC had qualified for the Champions League Final.

Yes the 747's aren't getting any younger, but they had a cabin refit a few years ago and are exiting the fleet over the next 2 years. The A330-200's won't be far behind once the neo's are delivered, but to be fair VS did spend a bit of money bringing them up to a better standard with new seats and carpets and installing PE seats.

I also highly doubt there will be many business passengers travelling to Barbados at that time of year and suspect a lot of independent travellers would have either booked months ago or are more savvy with routings, particular if they're island hopping or travelling to/from elsewhere.

[FFMAN]

Yep - sorry to conflate the Barbados specifc issue with the wider VS at MAN issue. I'm more likely to be found on the JFK or ATL routes. In particular, I've flown MAN-ATL for years. The old Delta 767s despite being long in the tooth offered a good J Class product. The VS A333s that took over the route were also pretty good. Whilst number crunchers and air enthusiasts would see the recent VS 747s as an upgrade; to the J Class passenger, it's a serious downgrade. I love the old iconic Jumbos even now as a pax but in reality they are far from a premium product in the twilight of their days.

[zfw]

It seems to be that with no viable competition from MAN in the foreseeable future VS will be milking it long-haul. I know its business but its not good for the travelling public. The option of flying South is a non-starter as all the beach aircraft fly from LGW and not LHR, i can fly to Sou, Edi, Ext, Inv, etc, but not to the second busiest airport in the UK, and the recent acquisition of Flybe makes that even more unlikely. So it looks like flights Stateside will be cheaper via DUB or NYC or PHL and connecting, its back to the nineties again.

[116d]

It seems to be that with no viable competition from MAN in the foreseeable future VS will be milking it long-haul. I know its business but its not good for the travelling public. The option of flying South is a non-starter as all the beach aircraft fly from LGW and not LHR, i can fly to Sou, Edi, Ext, Inv, etc, but not to the second busiest airport in the UK, and the recent acquisition of Flybe makes that even more unlikely. So it looks like flights Stateside will be cheaper via DUB or NYC or PHL and connecting, its back to the nineties again.

I guess we'll see how things pan out in the coming months. I fully expected fare hikes in the immediate aftermath of Thomas Cook collapsing, though although I expect fares to drop it wouldn't surprise me if they don't fall to the same levels pre-Thomas Cook collapse, which as well as demand could well be a sign of whether airlines were having to sell them for less than they would have otherwise charged due to competition and the market demanding low fares.

[116d]

Yep - sorry to conflate the Barbados specifc issue with the wider VS at MAN issue. I'm more likely to be found on the JFK or ATL routes. In particular, I've flown MAN-ATL for years. The old Delta 767s despite being long in the tooth offered a good J Class product. The VS A333s that took over the route were also pretty good. Whilst number crunchers and air enthusiasts would see the recent VS 747s as an upgrade; to the J Class passenger, it's a serious downgrade. I love the old iconic Jumbos even now as a pax but in reality they are far from a premium product in the twilight of their days.

I would argue the limited number of Upper seats is a problem with the 747 on the JFK and ATL route. I was made up last year when I booked MAN-JFK when it was initially allocated an A330 but changed to a 747 several months later, though these are both routes where Upper capacity can be increased and filled easily. The remaining 747's only have 14 Upper seats, whereas the long-gone LHR-based 747's had more and likewise with the A330's. I did VS127/128 last November and on both flights the loadings were just under 400 passengers, so on their 747's with 455 seats that's an 87% load factor - though last Winter they operated JFK and ATL on alternate days and when I was waiting for my case at MAN it was noticeable from other luggage tags how many had transferred off other DL flights at JFK.

To add to the discussion about Upper demand, I expect that to increase next year when VS open their Clubhouse lounge in the new T2 building. I have known of people to fly from LHR/LGW with their Clubhouses to get the full Upper Class experience, whereas MAN Upper passengers have to use the Escape Plus lounge instead. They will also steal a march over their TATL rivals out of MAN that don't have lounges of their own, though I think some passengers who are on the AA flights can use the BA Lounge in T3.

We'll see what loadings are like this winter given both are operating on more days and smaller aircraft are being used on some days.

[chaps1954]

Thought JFK is B744 all winter now

[116d]

Thought JFK is B744 all winter now

The plan seems to change regularly. I know before the Thomas Cook collapse some dates were changed from A332 to B744 and it wouldn't surprise me if more dates have been upgauged, though from a quick dummy booking there's definitely some dates where the allocated aircraft is A332.

Here's what I could find, but it looks like MAN-JFK will also see some A333 action and a dummy booking on one of those dates is still showing this...

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285580/virgin-atlantic-w19-manchester-us-service-changes-as-of-24jul19/

[SWBKCB]

But if the London route performs well, says Ramachandran, the carrier will look at Manchester and potentially other UK cities for expansion.

Flight - Jazeera hints at Manchester if new London route performs (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jazeera-hints-at-manchester-if-new-london-route-perf-461759/)

[Brigantee]

Any truth in the story jet 2 are flying across the pond this winter from MAN?

[SWBKCB]

Any truth in the story jet 2 are flying across the pond this winter from MAN?

Do you mean apart from the annual New York shopping flights? I'd have thought too late otherwise?

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #113 dated 18th October 2019 - Courtesy of the MANTP Team to whom full credit is given

Part 1
https://i.ibb.co/gDdpBNF/Screenshot-418.png

https://i.ibb.co/chDk5JF/Screenshot-419.png

https://i.ibb.co/1nzgws1/Screenshot-420.png

https://i.ibb.co/QCsdSq0/Screenshot-421.png

https://i.ibb.co/b6kmgmf/Screenshot-422.png

https://i.ibb.co/7y23SbD/Screenshot-423.png

https://i.ibb.co/vjJHNC7/Screenshot-424.png

https://i.ibb.co/qFm7t0y/Screenshot-425.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2
https://i.ibb.co/N2GmYH8/Screenshot-426.png

https://i.ibb.co/0Z4mg0k/Screenshot-427.png

https://i.ibb.co/87sQf7r/Screenshot-428.png

https://i.ibb.co/TPjHsjS/Screenshot-429.png

https://i.ibb.co/Yb6g174/Screenshot-430.png

https://i.ibb.co/WKpgTb7/Screenshot-431.png

https://i.ibb.co/nPGjfYp/Screenshot-432.png

[MANworker]

Virgin operating the A346 on the ATL on 14/21/22 December

[116d]

The plan seems to change regularly.

Quoting myself because to prove a point, MANworker has picked up on something I heard over the weekend that three dates in December will see the A346 operate MAN-ATL.

[Scottie Dog]

Time for this week's update courtesy of the MANTP Team-to whom full credit (and copyright) is given.

MANTP Update #114 dated 25th October 2019
Part 1

https://i.ibb.co/h1chKbJ/Screenshot-434.png

https://i.ibb.co/s1ZB9RX/Screenshot-435.png

https://i.ibb.co/61yRdcL/Screenshot-436.png

https://i.ibb.co/nbKF4L6/Screenshot-437.png

https://i.ibb.co/B3SFZS3/Screenshot-438.png

https://i.ibb.co/2SCkjJZ/Screenshot-439.png

https://i.ibb.co/zfxYw64/Screenshot-441.png

https://i.ibb.co/swpkrsG/Screenshot-442.png

https://i.ibb.co/sKmgsm0/Screenshot-443.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2


https://i.ibb.co/vzhGdx1/Screenshot-444.png

https://i.ibb.co/QCbCjxN/Screenshot-445.png

https://i.ibb.co/FXHpxf1/Screenshot-446.png

https://i.ibb.co/41vSCrf/Screenshot-447.png

https://i.ibb.co/DMTTFpQ/Screenshot-448.png

https://i.ibb.co/S6s9vzh/Screenshot-449.png

https://i.ibb.co/PNQygQ0/Screenshot-450.png

[flyerguy]

Virgin operating the A346 on the ATL on 14/21/22 December

According to Airline Routes on Routes Online it will only operate on 14/21

[116d]

According to Airline Routes on Routes Online it will only operate on 14/21

Makes sense as there's no ATL flight on the 22nd.

[irishlad06]

Jet2 have extended Innsbruck to be year round. It will now also operate during the summer as well as winter.

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #115 dated 1st November courtesy of the MANTP Team - to whom full credit is given.

All photographs are copyright MAG

Part 1
https://i.ibb.co/MSTvKd5/Screenshot-452.png

https://i.ibb.co/h9mSc0V/Screenshot-453.png

https://i.ibb.co/6BN08HR/Screenshot-454.png

https://i.ibb.co/CQr9tj9/Screenshot-455.png

https://i.ibb.co/dKgJk4x/Screenshot-456.png

https://i.ibb.co/tmgL4BX/Screenshot-457.png

https://i.ibb.co/gvm2327/Screenshot-458.png

https://i.ibb.co/YNt6JzX/Screenshot-459.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2
https://i.ibb.co/m8m0WQp/Screenshot-460.png

https://i.ibb.co/8r0b1KX/Screenshot-461.png

https://i.ibb.co/SJkQ8Ff/Screenshot-462.png

https://i.ibb.co/BPD6xHj/Screenshot-463.png

https://i.ibb.co/cggzFw6/Screenshot-464.png

https://i.ibb.co/0mnxxBP/Screenshot-465.png

https://i.ibb.co/vBBLckk/Screenshot-466.png

https://i.ibb.co/DG19TyD/Screenshot-467.png

[Espada III]

Rather disappointed last night when using the new multi-storey car park by T1 arrivals. Every single downspout was leaking; either around side of the pipe (so it was not sealed properly on the top) or from the joints. Very poor workmanship. I was worrried the structure was built to a same standard such that my car might fall through the floor....

[easyflyer83]

Isn’t that just a temporary solution that is actually used as a more permanent solution at countless UK railway stations, particularly in the south east?

[Matty Rich 83]

Rather disappointed last night when using the new multi-storey car park by T1 arrivals. Every single downspout was leaking; either around side of the pipe (so it was not sealed properly on the top) or from the joints. Very poor workmanship. I was worrried the structure was built to a same standard such that my car might fall through the floor....

Get in touch with MAN via social media...may not make a difference, but unless people report problems, they definitely won’t be fixed.
Not that I expect this to be fixed quickly or at all, but I always believe in reporting such issues...

[Mr A Tis]

Yea it’s a temporary issue, like the sky link showers.

[Scottie Dog]

October stats have now been made available by the airport. Allowing for the loss of Thomas Cook I believe that a reduction of less than 2% over the same month last year is a pretty good return.

https://i.ibb.co/zRTmXLj/Screenshot-468.png

[boredintheairport]

October stats have now been made available by the airport. Allowing for the loss of Thomas Cook I believe that a reduction of less than 2% over the same month last year is a pretty good return.

https://i.ibb.co/zRTmXLj/Screenshot-468.png

Interesting. The largest percentage drops were actually in domestic movements and passengers - related to Flybe per chance?

Does that 6% swing in charter traffic mean those who were booked on Thomas Cook but were repatriated on the CAA aircraft were counted as charter passengers? In which case the real drop would be far higher, as at the moment the passengers are just re-categorised?

[Scottie Dog]

Does the fact that any Thomas Cook passengers would have been flying back by one type of flight or another not invalidate your reasoning - whether it be charter or scheduled service? With the failure having been in September I would think that the vast majority of passengers who had already commenced their travel would, by the end of October, be home - assuming that those travelling for a month or more will have had to maketheir arrangements to return. At the end of the day it is, to me at least, the over all number of passengers that count.

November will be the first month when we will see whether those passengers who had been booked with Thomas Cook have managed to rebook their arrangements.

With regards to the domestic figures then yes, I believe that Flybe decision to cut flights, albeit towards the end of October, will have had a serious effect on the performance. Maybe we should revisit those numbers when the CAA get around to producing the October statistics (they have still not published September's data).

[boredintheairport]

Does the fact that any Thomas Cook passengers would have been flying back by one type of flight or another not invalidate your reasoning - whether it be charter or scheduled service? With the failure having been in September I would think that the vast majority of passengers who had already commenced their travel would, by the end of October, be home - assuming that those travelling for a month or more will have had to maketheir arrangements to return. At the end of the day it is, to me at least, the over all number of passengers that count.

November will be the first month when we will see whether those passengers who had been booked with Thomas Cook have managed to rebook their arrangements.

With regards to the domestic figures then yes, I believe that Flybe decision to cut flights, albeit towards the end of October, will have had a serious effect on the performance. Maybe we should revisit those numbers when the CAA get around to producing the October statistics (they have still not published September's data).
I don't believe it invalidates anything.

The point was only a 2% reduction which was classified as good. My contention was that actually the full fall can't be ascertained until next month as there has only been a reshuffling between two categories. As you say, next month will only be the real tell.

I'm really not attacking anything or anyone - I'm saying that it's too soon to say the impact of Thomas Cook.

[chaps1954]

As all the pax were home by 6th October the last few day were only drib and drabs the figures held up pretty well also ACL have the winter figures down less than 1% for whole season

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe wil add 1x daily MAN-STR from 29th March 2020.

[All names taken]

Howdydoody Dallas
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2019/11/12/dfw-airport-international-routes.html

Surely only AA would ever consider this - doubtful I would guess but interesting nonetheless

[TURIN]

Howdydoody Dallas
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2019/11/12/dfw-airport-international-routes.html

Surely only AA would ever consider this - doubtful I would guess but interesting nonetheless


I did hear a rumour of this a few months ago.

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #116 dated 8th November courtesy of the MANTP Team to whom full credit is acknowledged.

Part 1

https://i.ibb.co/y5rXfdH/Screenshot-472.png

https://i.ibb.co/6NGmQrp/Screenshot-473.png

https://i.ibb.co/Srzyxvv/Screenshot-474.png

https://i.ibb.co/F3hWb5S/Screenshot-475.png

https://i.ibb.co/LPdZcSZ/Screenshot-476.png

https://i.ibb.co/ggSQTkg/Screenshot-477.png

https://i.ibb.co/vjSzqSw/Screenshot-478.png

https://i.ibb.co/sF8GBg4/Screenshot-479.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2

https://i.ibb.co/2602grD/Screenshot-480.png

https://i.ibb.co/YTGQBFz/Screenshot-481.png

https://i.ibb.co/bB8Nz7J/Screenshot-482.png

https://i.ibb.co/H4W5SB8/Screenshot-483.png

https://i.ibb.co/6ykJJ0j/Screenshot-484.png

https://i.ibb.co/tBrHkVs/Screenshot-485.png

https://i.ibb.co/g6DmLCg/Screenshot-486.png

https://i.ibb.co/yhL65Vf/Screenshot-487.png

[Scottie Dog]

The following notice refers to forthcoming changes of Taxiway designation

OAN 123/2019 – RE-DESIGNATION OF TAXIWAYS AND HOLDING POSITIONS.

OAN REF:‐ 123/2019 DATE OF ISSUE:‐ 13/11/19 EFFECTIVE DATE:‐ 04/12/19 EXPIRY DATE:‐ 07/12/19

1.0 SUMMARY

1.1 As part of the MAN‐TP development there will be changes to the naming of some taxiways and associated intermediate and runway holding points. The changes will take place overnight on Wednesday 4th into the morning of Thursday 5th December. The changes are timed to be coincident and effective with the worldwide amendment of aeronautical charts (AIRAC 13/2019).

2.0 PROGRAMME

2.1 The changes will commence at 21:00L on the night of Wednesday 4th, and be completed by 05:30L on the morning of Thursday 5th December 2019.

2.2 In the event of adverse weather or other unforeseen circumstances preventing work being completed on the night of Wednesday 4th, work will take place during designated contingency nights of Thursday 5th and/or Friday 6th December.

3.0 SCOPE & LOCATION OF WORKS

3.1 The scope of work will involve the changing of airfield signage and some painted ground markings to reflect new taxiway and associated holding point designations.

3.2 The schedule of taxiway and holding point re‐designations is summarised in the tables overleaf and depicted on the map attached to this document.

https://i.ibb.co/d0hm0V4/Screenshot-488.png

4.0 OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS

4.1 With effect from Thursday 5th December 2019, the new taxiway and holding point designations will be in use on aeronautical charts and within textual data (AIRAC 13/2019) and also on local airfield maps issued by MAG.

4.1.1 From the effective date all relevant airfield signage and painted ground markings will have been changed and all communications from Air Traffic Control, flight crews, Airport Fire Service, Airfield Operations and other airfield drivers must use the new designations. 4.2 Aircraft Pushback Procedures

4.2.1 A new Manchester Airport Aircraft Pushback Procedures document will be issued in advance of the taxiway and holding point re‐designations and will be effective from Thursday 5th December 2019.

5.0 LOW VISIBILITY OPERATIONS (LVO)

5.1 The work taking place on the night of Wednesday 4th December will have no impact on the airport’s ability to operate during periods of low visibility.

https://i.ibb.co/fFw6SDF/Screenshot-489.png

[avicon13]

This isn't a 'MAN apologist' view, but one in general, as most UK airports suffer 'long' border queues, even the mighty Heathrow.

I often see sensationalist headlines and quotes of 'many stuck in border queue' and so on.

'Ooh Barbara, there must be 150 in this queue, it's totally not on'.

Yes Geoff. Of course there is 150 in front of you, you were last ones off a plane that holds 189 people, not to mention the flight from Munich parked up alongside you that also holds about 150 people, so what the hell are you expecting exactly? Where is it people think that your fellow passengers go once you exit the aircraft! You all have to go through the same blooming door!

It's just a British thing, we love to moan about Weather, the darkness level of a cuppa and how long the queue is. A queue could be 1 person deep and the person still find it unacceptable. What is this obsession with a queue, I just don't get it!

Came through MAN T1 last night, border took 8 minutes and people still moaning 'this is bloody ridiculous'. What were they planning to do with that 8 minutes they 'lost'?

Just baffles me, it really does!

Would have to agree with you. People open their mouths and moan before taking the time to think about all the things going on around them. No doubt certain bits of infrastructure and processes could be improved to better handle the flow but do people really expect that an airport like Manchester can provide queue free journeys from kerb side to aircraft and vice versa? Nowhere but in the most extravagant parts of the world do people build airports that won't involve queues at most peak times during the day.

[eggc]

Anyone for THAI 350's :ok:

[VickersVicount]

Anyone for THAI 350's :ok:
bold from a haphazard and financially precarious dysfunctional legacy carrier....

[The96er]

Or could be ShangHAI !!

[AndrewH52]

Anyone for THAI 350's :ok:

The airport Twitter feed talks about ‘saying hai to an exciting new route’ which to me would suggest Japan not Thailand?

[flyerguy]

I would hazard a guess at Shanghai with Hainan possibly?

although a lot of speculation if Japan.

[Scottie Dog]

I would hazard a guess at Shanghai with Hainan possibly?
Or maybe Juneyao?

[flyerguy]

According to ACL who handle slots, LOT Polish meant to operate to MAN according to the allocations at WAW from S20

[Scottie Dog]

Whatever is announced tomorrow, whether it be one new route by the Airport or more if the initial S20 report from ACL is released, it looks as if, after the sad loss of Thomas Cook, we might be receiving some good news.

[Nostoodian]

The airport Twitter feed talks about ‘saying hai to an exciting new route’ which to me would suggest Japan not Thailand?
If it's Japan, it's the biggest kept secret in aviation history for a new route out of Manchester Airport. I suspect it's Shang(hai) with Juneyao. They just announced a new thrice weekly Athens service last week. I'm guessing Manchester will be four weekly with a 787 ops.

I suspect the news of the Thai Bangkok route is not far behind.

[flyerguy]

Hai (according to Google Translate) means is in Hindi so I suspect we could see anything to be honest

[Nostoodian]

I'm putting my money on Shang(hai).

https://mobile.twitter.com/thepapercn/status/1167987942503137280

Juneyao recently upgraded Helsinki from 4 weekly to daily, and last week announced thrice weekly Athens. Believe me Manchester is next ✈️

[Nostoodian]

The airport Twitter feed talks about ‘saying hai to an exciting new route’ which to me would suggest Japan not Thailand?
Then again maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree? T(hai) Airways?

[Flightrider]

Not likely to be Juneyao. Thai A350 to BKK, daily TG976/977. I doubt a daily Alitalia LIN would generate this run-up and hadn't heard Spicejet were ready to announce A330 services to the UK yet.

[Flightrider]

I take it all back!

[egcntristar]

Juneyao to Shanghai three times a week 789 according to Yorkshire Post.

[Scottie Dog]

And Shanghai with Juneyao is confirmed by the airport.

https://twitter.com/manairport/status/1197055381513605120?s=19

[Nostoodian]

Great news, but Juneyao really need to aim to go direct as soon as possible. I don't understand why they couldn't have started with thrice weekly direct flights instead of routing through Helsinki. Must say I'm quite disappointed. Can anyone explain their logic?

Why would you choose to fly with Juneyao (who aren't very well known) over other airlines flying via hubs to Shanghai? Lots of competition on the Shanghai route from Manchester. Anyone know how long the stopover is in Helsinki? How does the travel time to Shanghai going via Helsinki compare with other hub airlines?

I always think it's a bit of a cop out when airlines & airports market routes as being direct, when they're not.

[boredintheairport]

Great news, but Juneyao really need to aim to go direct as soon as possible. I don't understand why they couldn't have started with thrice weekly direct flights instead of routing through Helsinki. Must say I'm quite disappointed. Can anyone explain their logic?

Why would you choose to fly with Juneyao (who aren't very well known) over other airlines flying via hubs to Shanghai? Lots of competition on the Shanghai route from Manchester. Anyone know how long the stopover is in Helsinki? How does the travel time to Shanghai going via Helsinki compare with other hub airlines?

I always think it's a bit of a cop out when airlines & airports market routes as being direct, when they're not.

I would imagine because it changes the economics of the route as you can partially offset the costs with HEL-MAN passengers (as it appears to be fifth freedom), and then on the long haul bit passengers from HEL-PVG eat some of the costs, too.

As you say, they are unknown. Direct means charging a premium. If you're unknown, you can't do that. So you test the water gently.

There are other factors which may play. Unknown to western audiences, but not necessarily Chinese audiences. Filled with tour groups, perhaps, who appreciate direct (though not non-stop) on a carrier that speaks their language. And to the large diaspora/student group at the UK end, to them perhaps the brand is not unknown. The stop is, I would imagine, going to be an hour. Helsinki to China is a fairly efficient routing so I would be surprised if it killed the timing too much.

Would you also say that Manchester doesn't have a flight to Addis Ababa because it stops in Brussels first? Or, if they still exist, the hops on the end of Caribbean flights?

[ld0595]

A dummy booking on the Juneyao website shows a stop of 2.5 hours.

[inOban]

If they were flying direct, they would fly over Helsinki, since that's the Great Circle route. Using the ME hubs adds to the distance.

[boredintheairport]

A dummy booking on the Juneyao website shows a stop of 2.5 hours.

That seems quite a lengthy stop, I would imagine this gets fettled down. On Ethiopian's routine fifth freedom milk run routes the stops are rarely that long - usually just over an hour.

[Nostoodian]

Whilst Juneyao dithers, other airlines for example Virgin or maybe a different Chinese Airline might jump ahead of the queue before them with a direct flight. To my knowledge, didn't Virgin just announce a new codeshare with a Chinese Airline?

[chaps1954]

From memory China only lets one Chinese airline per route and as they are basically all owned by the government with private financing

[Scottie Dog]

For those who are interested I am attaching the latest update from the MANTP Team - to whom full credit is given.

Part 1
https://i.ibb.co/BGJSX1x/Screenshot-503.png

https://i.ibb.co/3Tj8YWP/Screenshot-504.png

https://i.ibb.co/QYDMSfT/Screenshot-505.png

https://i.ibb.co/D5DnctD/Screenshot-506.png

https://i.ibb.co/ZzSJGFB/Screenshot-507.png

https://i.ibb.co/1fY6pJC/Screenshot-508.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2
https://i.ibb.co/mTgZwc9/Screenshot-510.png

https://i.ibb.co/MPJXpp9/Screenshot-511.png

https://i.ibb.co/TbPjkym/Screenshot-513.png

https://i.ibb.co/DrWBmNf/Screenshot-515.png

https://i.ibb.co/gRcsZSF/Screenshot-516.png

https://i.ibb.co/rHnjFNx/Screenshot-517.png

https://i.ibb.co/hDC26Kx/Screenshot-520.png

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - October 2019

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new destinations were included in October

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,061,781 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for October.
Aberdeen, Belfast City, Glasgow, and Guernsey whose total passengers, in 2018, totaled 56,355

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers – 2,505,175 -1.86%
Annual Total – 19,980,245 +4.20%
Moving Annual Total - 29,483,197 +4.81%

Monthly Movements – 17,737 -2.50%
Annual Movements – 132,993 +1.56%
Moving Annual Movements – 203,724 +1.61%

Manchester Airport's October statistics
https://i.ibb.co/Tr7f8wb/Screenshot-468.png

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://i.ibb.co/wN8c6FV/Screenshot-522.png

Top destinations with highest percentage increase.
https://i.ibb.co/wyB00f6/Screenshot-523.png

Figures for the European and long-haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
https://i.ibb.co/zPn9J2c/Screenshot-524.png
Istanbul figures are affected by the start of the Pegasus service to Sabiha Gokcen airport. The combined figures for both airports gives an increase of 61.8% over the same month last year.
New York (JFK) – Although the monthly figures is down by 17,391 one must remember that Thomas Cook in September had carried 12,558 passengers until their sad demise on 23rd September.

Comparison of top 31 destinations - October 2009 versus October 2019
https://i.ibb.co/WvxQxKf/Screenshot-525.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://i.ibb.co/N2YpntQ/Screenshot-526.png

Load factors analysis on certain routes

[pilot9250]

I would imagine because it changes the economics of the route as you can partially offset the costs with HEL-MAN passengers (as it appears to be fifth freedom), and then on the long haul bit passengers from HEL-PVG eat some of the costs, too.

As you say, they are unknown. Direct means charging a premium. If you're unknown, you can't do that. So you test the water gently.

There are other factors which may play. Unknown to western audiences, but not necessarily Chinese audiences. Filled with tour groups, perhaps, who appreciate direct (though not non-stop) on a carrier that speaks their language. And to the large diaspora/student group at the UK end, to them perhaps the brand is not unknown. The stop is, I would imagine, going to be an hour. Helsinki to China is a fairly efficient routing so I would be surprised if it killed the timing too much.

Would you also say that Manchester doesn't have a flight to Addis Ababa because it stops in Brussels first? Or, if they still exist, the hops on the end of Caribbean flights?

I think we can be pretty confident that 吉祥航空 is almost as unknown in China as it is in England.

Fingers crossed they will succeed anyway.

[chaps1954]

Thats funny as they have a fleet of almost 70 short haul aircraft and have carried somewhere in region of 18M pax so no way are they a small operator

[Nostoodian]

I think the main problem with starting direct long haul routes into Asia from Manchester is the stiff competition you're up against. You've got the following hub airlines going East: Emirates X 3, Qatar x 3, Etihad x 2, Turkish X 2, Oman Air, British Airways, Pegasus, Lufthansa, Air France & Swiss etc.

Price, frequency, timing, Air Miles & product all play a big part. It's a hard nut to crack. I was critical of Juneyao to start with for their meager offering out of Manchester, but the more I think about it, the more their strategy makes good business sense.

[chaps1954]

Don`t forget they have 5th freedom from to HEL ex MAN so nothing to stop anyone connecting on to the many
flights from/to HEL to Asia

[pwalhx]

They are also a Star Alliance Connections Partner airline

[HKGBOY]

They are also a Star Alliance Connections Partner airline

Appears a bit odd then, as the HEL-PVG is Also a code share with Finnair -a One World airline.

Also with 5th freedom on the MAN-HEL this might impact the AY offering.

I'm a user of the Finnair from MAN to HKG and I'd be disappointed in any negative impact on the AY service.

[Scottie Dog]

For those who are interested here is a cut down version of update #118 courtesy of the MANTP Team,towho full credit is given.

https://i.ibb.co/s9Y37WR/Screenshot-528.png

https://i.ibb.co/j391tLB/Screenshot-530.png

https://i.ibb.co/j488m4p/Screenshot-531.png

https://i.ibb.co/WGqm5Db/Screenshot-533.png

https://i.ibb.co/sWkLbdW/Screenshot-536.png

https://i.ibb.co/mc9xPt1/Screenshot-539.png

https://i.ibb.co/6J6qwxH/Screenshot-540.png

[Scottie Dog]

November statistics are now out.

Allowing for the loss of Thomas Cook it is not too surprising that numbers are down and, in my opinion a reduction of less than 28,000 is pretty tame.

https://i.ibb.co/TcTpQxM/Screenshot-545.png

[goldeneye]

Is there still plans for MAN to have a US Pre-Clearance as not seen anything more about it.

[Scottie Dog]

I've not seen any update on this for some years and I think it possibly has been dropped from the plans.

[andybsei]

I've not seen any update on this for some years and I think it possibly has been dropped from the plans.

The airport confirmed to me in a tweet today that: "we may still introduce US pre-clearance in the future but currently the airport community do not believe that the benefits it would bring can justify the resulting increase in ticket prices".

[DUB19]

The airport confirmed to me in a tweet today that: "we may still introduce US pre-clearance in the future but currently the airport community do not believe that the benefits it would bring can justify the resulting increase in ticket prices".

not worth it. It would be convenient but really you need somewhere that acts as a feeder airport such as DUB. EI Connects PAX from Europe to N America and N America to Europe where as MAN just acts as people’s ‘local airport’

[monarchnew]

Has anyone got any idea what aircraft types TUI are basing in MAN for the coming summer?

Have they increased capacity much after the loss of Thomas Cook?

[chaps1954]

I read the other day on another forum that it is 3 B789 plus part time B788, 2 B763 , 13 B738 and the bit I cannot remember is how many B752
but of course this all depends on the MAX situation.

[MANFOD]

not worth it. It would be convenient but really you need somewhere that acts as a feeder airport such as DUB. EI Connects PAX from Europe to N America and N America to Europe where as MAN just acts as people’s ‘local airport’

Are you just a wind-up merchant? If not, I'd be interested in how you define 'local'.

[brian_dromey]

Are you just a wind-up merchant? If not, I'd be interested in how you define 'local'.
I assume he’s talking about the high level of O&D at MAN, rather than suggesting MAN is some sort of tinpot backwater. There is no dominant hub airline at MAN, which limits commenting flow. A lot of posters are obsessed with connections, as if they solve any problem. But the reality is connections are low-yield, helping to fill the plane, but not necessarily profitable. All of MANs long haul is supported by good volume and good yield O&D, which is quite an achievement.

[Scottie Dog]

Update #120 from the MANTP Team - to whom full credit is given.

I believe that all reference to taxilane Victor-Bravo is incorrect and should be to Taxilane Juliet

https://i.ibb.co/TvhT3xm/Screenshot-562.png

https://i.ibb.co/nbQpFjr/Screenshot-563.png

https://i.ibb.co/8gkSzh2/Screenshot-565.png

https://i.ibb.co/T1Hj4nQ/Screenshot-566.png

https://i.ibb.co/CVqW4cJ/Screenshot-569.png

https://i.ibb.co/9NKykgX/Screenshot-570.png

https://i.ibb.co/fCvQg5H/Screenshot-572.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2

https://i.ibb.co/VvtJjn0/Screenshot-575.png

https://i.ibb.co/VLymqfq/Screenshot-576.png

https://i.ibb.co/S55t0T8/Screenshot-578.png

https://i.ibb.co/p2f1L1H/Screenshot-579.png

This last picture is taken from the latest MANTP video and show, at the bottom right, the area in the above slide that will be used as an airside coaching area.
https://i.ibb.co/zFKW1YR/Screenshot-582.png

[Mr Mac]

I had a first on Friday 29th Nov with EK when on the evening flight. The the ground power was disconnected before the A/C power was up. Total black out on board and 45min delay before all systems back up. It was a first for me, and the re boot time surprised me a little. Italian skipper also obviously not impressed as we had a quick take off and fast trip to DXB, be interested to know who picks up the tab for fuel etc.
Regards
Mr Mac

Previously posted on SLF with no responses, so SOS suggested I try hear.

[Union Jack]

SOS
Will give it a shot.
Kind regards
Mr Mac
Speedy or what!

Jack

[MANFAN]

I had a first on Friday 29th Nov with EK when on the evening flight. The the ground power was disconnected before the A/C power was up. Total black out on board and 45min delay before all systems back up. It was a first for me, and the re boot time surprised me a little. Italian skipper also obviously not impressed as we had a quick take off and fast trip to DXB, be interested to know who picks up the tab for fuel etc.
Regards
Mr Mac

Previously posted on SLF with no responses, so SOS suggested I try hear.

I"d also be interested to know how this happened...who handles EK @MAN?
The ground crew have to inform the flight crew prior to a disconnect...but did this happen?

[spannersatcx]

Sometimes the FEP can trip off on its own accord.

[750XL]

I"d also be interested to know how this happened...who handles EK @MAN?
The ground crew have to inform the flight crew prior to a disconnect...but did this happen?

Dnata handle EK.

FEP or GPU power being accidentally disconnected happens multiple times a day, at MAN alone - nevermind across the globe! Whether it's through the FEP/GPU tripping, the GPU running out of fuel, someone accidentally turning the GPU/FEP off, knocking the cable out of the socket etc... I've seen it all before.

Including people driving the GPU away whilst it's still attached :O

[MANFAN]

[QUOTE=750XL;10638228]Dnata handle EK.

FEP or GPU power being accidentally disconnected happens multiple times a day, at MAN alone - nevermind across the globe! Whether it's through the FEP/GPU tripping, the GPU running out of fuel, someone accidentally turning the GPU/FEP off, knocking the cable out of the socket etc... I've seen it all before.

Including people driving the GPU away whilst it's still attached

Interesting...thanks for the insight. I’ve not much idea how ground ops work, however, if it’s causing a big problem, as in this case, what improvements can be made to reduce the chances of this happening before it actually needs disconnecting...? Appreciate it’s sometimes too easy for this to happen...

[spacedog]

It’s becoming the norm that tech crew are unwilling to Start the APU until the final moment.
untill the APU has started the ground crew shouldn’t remove the external power.
my observations are that tech crew get clearance APU just started or about to start.
Ground power is removed sometimes to early. Complete reboot needed which takes 30 to 40 mins aircraft dependent.
Some tech crew English is appalling, some refuse to speak in English, mixed messages happen causing last minute snags.
Do not always blame the contractor. In my experience most of the time the fault is with the tech crew. Lack of communication then want immediate pushback.

[MANworker]

1 year of Ethiopian at MAN, glad to see the pax figures have been climbing, in the last week I’ve seen figures of 190+ EX-MAN so looking good for the route

[Mr Mac]

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure this is that common, or if it is, I have been very lucky as this, as I say was a first, and I do a minimum of circa 250000 flying miles a year and never experienced it. Thanks for the back ground re handlers as I know someone in Geneva who is quite senior at Dnata , so I think some gentle leg pulling maybe in order ! Anybody know who recompenses the airline for the delay / extra fuel burn will that be Dnata as well ?

Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Una Due Tfc]

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure this is that common, or if it is, I have been very lucky as this, as I say was a first, and I do a minimum of circa 250000 flying miles a year and never experienced it. Thanks for the back ground re handlers as I know someone in Geneva who is quite senior at Dnata , so I think some gentle leg pulling maybe in order ! Anybody know who recompenses the airline for the delay / extra fuel burn will that be Dnata as well ?

Kind regards
Mr Mac

EK own Dnata so doesn’t really matter either way!

[flyerguy]

VY upgrading to 321 on a daily flight and going from 10 to 11 weekly!

[TURIN]

I had a first on Friday 29th Nov with EK when on the evening flight. The the ground power was disconnected before the A/C power was up. Total black out on board and 45min delay before all systems back up. It was a first for me, and the re boot time surprised me a little. Italian skipper also obviously not impressed as we had a quick take off and fast trip to DXB, be interested to know who picks up the tab for fuel etc.
Regards
Mr Mac

Previously posted on SLF with no responses, so SOS suggested I try hear.


It happens. Somethimes its a breakdown in communication between gound crew/engineer/flight deck, I've even see a flight crew deselect the gound power before the APU is on-line. Often it just drops off line on its own. It's been a major headache at MAN for years. The 'newer' aircraft such as the A350 and B787 are very heavy electrical users (up to 180 KvA) and the FEP (Fixed Electrical Power) at MAN has been subject to upgrades ever since the 747-400 appeared but as usual at MAN it seems to be on the cheap every time. Any delay caused will be subject to the usual blame game. Ground handling, airport equipment or tech etc.

[Scottie Dog]

Turin - are the new FEP installations, as part of the MANTP project, up to scratch in your opinion?

[GrahamK]

Iberia Express increasing MAN-MAD to 5 x weekly from March 2020, not sure if thats has been reported previously

[Rutan16]

Iberia Express increasing MAN-MAD to 5 x weekly from March 2020, not sure if thats has been reported previously

Yes reported here and on numerous other sites by our good friend LHR-LAX and his other pseudonyms!

However worthy of update thanks

Still it remains at random times on differing days and a rather poor choice for longer haul connections beyond Barajas compared to neighbouring Portugal Lisbon and TAP a market now with multiple dailies and three other competitors !

Okay for onwards to Canaries and Balearics however really why does IAG even bother in that marker I ask myself ?

[Cymmon]

Vueling increasing capacity on evening Barcelona flights using A321 instead of A320, also 11th weekly flight added from March 20.

[Scottie Dog]

This is my final planned MANTP Update before the Christmas/New Year break. As always I am indebted to the MANTP Team for supplying the weekly update, without their help the information I post would have been far leaner - if only I hear some say!!

https://i.ibb.co/09P7JMG/Screenshot-589.png

https://i.ibb.co/vLdb0fV/Screenshot-590.png

https://i.ibb.co/rtsm7rB/Screenshot-591.png

https://i.ibb.co/h8jT9d2/Screenshot-592.png

https://i.ibb.co/NyBmFWh/Screenshot-593.png

https://i.ibb.co/j8VJ4B4/Screenshot-594.png

https://i.ibb.co/cXSz38t/Screenshot-596.png

https://i.ibb.co/qC0JSMz/Screenshot-599.png

https://i.ibb.co/G3GJ8Wf/Screenshot-602.png

Finally can I wish everybody a very happy Christmas. May it bring not only happiness but also peace and tranquility to this troubled world.

[DUB19]

Please provide a link to these images rather than spamming the whole forum with them

[Reversethrustset]

Please carry on with the updates on here, I and I'm sure others enjoy them

[MANworker]

Thanks scottiedog for taking the time to post this, much appreciated and intriguing to see how the master plan is being put into action. People won’t ever be happy on here unless it’s to slag off MAN or to get personal with other users. Hope you have a good Xmas and same to everyone else

[Lancaster Bomber]

Thanks for these updates Scottie Dog, keep them coming.
Have a great Christmas and all the best for the new year.

[HH6702]

Please provide a link to these images rather than spamming the whole forum with them


these updates have been happening for months on here and nobody complains about it.
these updates provide information on the progress and these should contuine.

thank you again for sharing this information.

if you don’t want to see the information then just do what some others will do scroll past it!

[Manchester Exile]

If you don’t like Scottie Dog’s updates, just scroll past them.

[Suzeman]

Please provide a link to these images rather than spamming the whole forum with them



Please stop spamming the forum with unhelpful messages. The posts are appreciated by many, have been going on since well before you joined PPRune and are a good historical record of what is happening.

Carry on the good work Scottie - good to see what is going in from the comfort of my armchair instead of being involved in the thick of it.

[Navpi]

Keep them coming.

[MANFOD]

Please stop spamming the forum with unhelpful messages. The posts are appreciated by many, have been going on since well before you joined PPRune and are a good historical record of what is happening.

Carry on the good work Scottie - good to see what is going in from the comfort of my armchair instead of being involved in the thick of it.

Well said Suzeman. I think it was that guy who referred to MAN as just a local airport.

Yes, Scottie, those updates are appreciated by many.

[BTNH]

same here please keep them coming

[Scottie Dog]

'The ayes have it' as Mr Speaker would say.

Thank you for your replies and I'm delighted to say that, unless otherwise told to by a moderator, I will continue to post the updates - albeit with duplicates from the previous week excluded.

As I said previously the next update will not be until the New Year.

Scottie Dog

[HKGBOY]

I do wonder why this airport continues to shoot itself in the foot.
left T1 on Sunday 22nd December, security area A closed to all non priority pax.
T1 area B security- only two lanes open- sigh
a most unpleasant experience for people leaving the UK- just leaves a bad impression of a disorganised “on the cheap” couldn’t care less airport(25 minutes to get through)
it’s a grim area in security B even if you could sail through.

[HKGBOY]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-09/the-best-and-worst-airlines-and-airports-of-2019?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=url_link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-facebook-business

[spannersatcx]

I went through T3 3 times this month each time getting through security took less than 10 minutes.

[dave59]

How can Malta be in there with the worst? In my experience it is spotlessly clean, has very efficient and friendly security and a good range of shops and food outlets. There are delays at passport control sometimes when several UK flights land at the same time but that is because this silly country is not part of the Schengen agreement. There can be no doubt at all about MAN being one of the worst anywhere. Arrivals onto pier B is like being transported back in time to a 1960's general hospital.

[parky747]

I do rather hope the newly built section and eventual modernisation (albeit architecturally drab) of the whole T2 proves better than the imagery conveys.

Perhaps had MAG not been in pursuit of other costly airfields, funding for a more futuristic mega terminal (ala LHR T5) could have potentially placed MAN into a different league

[chaps1954]

Simple answer to that is money T5 LHR is about 5 times as expensive as T2 and a lot more room

[zfw]

Well here we are sat in Barbados....comfortable trip on the BA777, what no BA International at Manchester?. Thats because we had to fly from LGW, not just us but 16 people in my immediate family and friends.
I see this as a continueing trend care of the lack of competition at MAN. with prices between 5k-7.5K to fly in economy on Virgin {Early Dec prices}. We and the 16 others elected to drive and fly from LGW, with an average price of between £1600- 2K for 2 in premium, whereas this is a huge hike on the old TCX cost{ 1100 for 2 in premium} it is way cheaper than being ripped off at MAN. So the point is if this is just my immediate friends/family how many others are doing the same and pushing down MAN numbers, its already £799 with TUI seat only at the end of Jan next year per person shoe boxed in to a 787. I can see more long trips dahn sarf this year.

[Musket90]

zfw - Nice place to be this time of year. I think it very unlikely BA will consider MAN for operating long haul in the foreseeable future. LHR and LGW are their main bases with the B777. I recently experienced a long haul "holiday" B777 flight from LGW booked as a BA holiday package (included hotel). The cost was excellent when compared with other options and no complaints about the flight comfort/service etc. They had recently upgraded the aircraft cabin and IFE. I haven't flown Virgin or TUI for a very long time so can't compare. I trust the drive to/from LGW was smooth !

[Cazza_fly]

its already £799 with TUI seat only at the end of Jan next year per person shoe boxed in to a 787. I can see more long trips dahn sarf this year.

There is more space on a TUI Airways 787 than a BA 777 refurbished or not. Plus the service onboard is practically similar with complimentary drinks, meals and IFE.

That said, it is usually cheaper to book a package holiday with them than flight only as this is their target market being the airline for a tour operator.

[eggc]

I go Barbados tomorrow. I'd never even look at any other price but MAN. Rather pay a premium for a 15 min trip to the airport than an awful slog to LGW and back. No thanks. Now where's me Speedo's...

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - November 2019

Introduction

No new destinations were included in November.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,062,610 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for November.
Glasgow whose total passengers, in 2018, totaled 4,176

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on MAG statistics
Manchester Airport's November statistics
https://i.ibb.co/TcTpQxM/Screenshot-545.png

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://i.ibb.co/p372C2T/Screenshot-607.png

Top destinations with highest percentage increase.
https://i.ibb.co/1vYGBTY/Screenshot-608.png

Figures for the European and long-haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
https://i.ibb.co/TbgqcTM/Screenshot-609.png
Istanbul figures are affected by the start of the Pegasus service to Sabiha Gokcen airport. The combined figures for both airports gives an increase of 50.5% over the same month last year.

Comparison of top 29 destinations - November 2009 versus November 2019
https://i.ibb.co/0DLtDvN/Screenshot-610.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://i.ibb.co/bKRMYpJ/Screenshot-611.png

[Scottie Dog]

A very happy New Year and welcome to MANTP Update #122 courtesy, as always, of the MANTP Team.

https://i.ibb.co/KjTHj2V/Screenshot-615.png

https://i.ibb.co/2h3Jdxw/Screenshot-616.png

https://i.ibb.co/wMXcGNs/Screenshot-618.png

https://i.ibb.co/wgJWR1N/Screenshot-619.png

https://i.ibb.co/xs1rbW5/Screenshot-620.png

https://i.ibb.co/1bSVdTB/Screenshot-621.png

https://i.ibb.co/JFY0vKZ/Screenshot-623.png

https://i.ibb.co/RvMMXqh/Screenshot-629.png

[eggc]

Shall we have a sweepstake on this..."RUMOUR: BRITISH AIRWAYS LAUNCHING MANCHESTER LONG HAUL FLIGHTS?https://www.godsavethepoints.com/rumour-british-airways-manchester-long-haul-flights/?fbclid=IwAR1RKTaGAjpCk0XpPPd82CjjRtNZYmGVJCUbfAOjEThiyFAuCO 4Or9ujoDI

[Alteagod]

It might have more gravitas if it was IAG plans flights from MAN, Level or Air Europa maybe or an EI 321XLR but BA, I'm not convinced

[flyerguy]

So this is my view on it:

1) All the Thomas Cook Slots have been allocated to other operators.

2) MAN already struggle with stands, the amount of times we’ve seen long haul aircraft arrive and wait in taxiways in the early morning.

3) If BA do start Ops from MAN this effectively takes away business from their London Ops. - and taking pax from the Shuttle Services that connect ex LHR.

4) They already have so many different crew on so many contracts, to which they will already be trying to streamline, for example the World and Euro Fleets at LHR they’ll be wanting to streamline into Mixed Fleet in the future. Adding a so called ‘Manchester Fleet’ could add to the multitude of contracts they have. Although I suspect if it does happen, it would be a Mixed Fleet contract.
I believe crew used to operate LHR-JFK-MAN-JFK-LHR when BA had Ops out of MAN, and so this could be brought back to stop the need to add another ‘fleet’ should they start Ops. For longer range flights I suspect they could dead head crew from London.

5) LHR and LGW both have a multitude of airlines to codeshare with and both airports have BA shorthaul flights to connect onto. MAN just has a small handful to which customers could connect on to. Remember AA are OneWorld and their JFK and ORD isn’t operating now.

6) If this was to happen this would be direct competition for Virgin, so expect JFK/LAX and possibly LAS and maybe some Caribbean, but wouldn’t expect a massive route map ie. China and the Far East, to which BA only operate 1 daily frequency to some destinations, as Far East passengers prefer to travel with local based carriers.


Would be good to see though!

[flyerguy]

It might have more gravitas if it was IAG plans flights from MAN, Level or Air Europa maybe or an EI 321XLR but BA, I'm not convinced


I think LEVEL would be a better fit, a couple of A330 and a few A320/321 aircraft and you could have a nice fit, but not Many People know LEVEL.

[CabinCrewe]

but not Many People know LEVEL.

And there lies the issue. In the UK LEVEL is going nowhere.

[Una Due Tfc]

Chances of them showing up with 10 abreast 777s being displaced from London by new B78Xs and A35Ks, chasing VS out, then canning the routes again?

[eggc]

Flyerguy...

TCX had how many based at MAN ? I think they were 7 330's or more, not to mention 320/321's. They have not all been replaced yet by VS / LS etc and it shows at T1 aswell, so there’s room for a few Dreamliners doing one flight a day each.

I don’t disagree it would be (if anything even comes of this rumour) routes similar to TCX / VS, but more capacity is needed on such routes as MCO / BGI etc in the absence of TCX...you only need to check the prices to confirm !! This type of route wouldnt effect LHR shuttle / connections - as BA obviously fly such destinations ex LGW, where MAN folk find it a tad tricky to get to. I see any pax BA carried ex MAN IF this ever happens as being new pax to them, and not really stolen from LHR or LGW.

[flyerguy]

In all honesty I think the original post was click bait .,. ‘Creditable source’ gave him info but then there really isn’t much info?

[FFMAN]

:rolleyes: Really?
Here's my view on it - BA operate from T3. T3 is full - totally.
People who spend money on long-haul flights want an airport experience that T3 can never deliver. The BA lounge is good but the rest is Ryanair standard.
And 'Level' ? WTF is that? Another joke name like Vooling,,,may as well call it Nose-Dive

[nguba]

Suspect there is a degree of embellishment in that blog post to get clicks. BA has talked about possibly returning to the regions with the A321LR. BA simply does not have the spare aircraft to run 787 flights out of MAN. BA has had a good run launching new TATL routes from LHR from the 787 so why get in a fight for yield at MAN?

[eggc]

MAN prices are through the roof from the day TCX disappeared. Some routes are 2 or 3 times more than from London. Virgin must be loving it with very high loads and able to charge what they want. Somebody may want some of that pie, or want to stop VIR having 100% of it.

[VickersVicount]

3 times more than from London.
Really? Would be keen to see some examples. Who in their right mind would pay that to fill economy TCX equivalent seats

[HKGBOY]

Is single runway OPS normal for Sunday afternoons? Colleague on MAN-DUS from T2 - 35 minutes from pushback T2 to take off- awful lot of fuel & time wasted queuing at what is a medium regional airport but with unused assets (?)

[chaps1954]

Wouldn`t call a 30M airport a medium regional airport

[Scottie Dog]

Is single runway OPS normal for Sunday afternoons? Colleague on MAN-DUS from T2 - 35 minutes from pushback T2 to take off- awful lot of fuel & time wasted queuing at what is a medium regional airport but with unused assets (?)

SUMMARY
1.1 During the winter period, dual-runway operating hours will operate based on seasonal demand.
2.0 PROGRAMME
2.1 Standard dual-runway operating hours will be altered in line with demand for the 2019/20 winter season.
All times quoted in this Operational Advice Notice are local.
3.0 STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS (Monday to Friday Inclusive)
3.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:30hrs - 10:30hrs and 16:00hrs – 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.
3.2 SATURDAY STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS
3.2.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:30hrs - 10:30hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.
3.3 SUNDAY STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS
3.3.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 16:00hrs – 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.

[eggc]

Really? Would be keen to see some examples. Who in their right mind would pay that to fill economy TCX equivalent seats


Well I am writing this from Barbados, booked before TCX went. After TCX went another couple wanted to join us, prices from MAN for prices were £2k each !! I kid you not, but could get LGW for under £800. Consiquently we are here alone. Our VS flight was completely full. I am also investigating next Januarys winter avoidance holiday to MCO, and finding MAN has a far greater price premium than usual. Its been widely reported that VS aint the only ones, Jet2 have also been publically bashed all over the place for similar hikes in prices as seats are at a premium.

[zfw]

Vickers check out my previous posts, VS wanted 7.5K for economy seats to fly at the end of Dec to Bgi, we flew from LGW beach fleet just under 2k premium, VS are royally living it up have now spoken to 23 people from the Cheshire Greater Man area who have flown from LGW this hols and 2 via FRA.

[Nostoodian]

On a positive note high yields in the short term will strengthen the finances of some these Airlines who are often struggling to turn over profit, therefore helping to secure local & national jobs in the future. Business is business at the end of the day. It's simple supply & demand. You can't blame the airline's for cashing in.

Also, oil prices are increasing as per the onset of War. The airlines are going to need all the help they can.

[Nostoodian]

On a positive note high yields in the short term will strengthen the finances of some these Airlines who are often struggling to turn over profit, therefore helping to secure local & national jobs in the future. Business is business at the end of the day. It's simple supply & demand. You can't blame the airline's for cashing in.

Also, oil prices are increasing as per the onset of War. The airlines are going to need all the help they can.

[116d]

Well I am writing this from Barbados, booked before TCX went. After TCX went another couple wanted to join us, prices from MAN for prices were £2k each !! I kid you not, but could get LGW for under £800. Consiquently we are here alone. Our VS flight was completely full. I am also investigating next Januarys winter avoidance holiday to MCO, and finding MAN has a far greater price premium than usual. Its been widely reported that VS aint the only ones, Jet2 have also been publically bashed all over the place for similar hikes in prices as seats are at a premium.

When you leave it late to book and combined with what happened with Thomas Cook meaning there were many people scrambling to find alternatives or have no holiday at all, it's little wonder prices skyrocketed. It could also be argued in some cases that prices have been artificially low.

As for MCO next January, although you can probably book packages already with Virgin Holidays you do realise VS don't open for bookings until about 11 months out?

[rkenyon]

BGI on VS is available in business class for less than £2k throughout the summer...

[Be a good chap]

TUI are picking up the MAN - CCC using the B787, previously served by TCX using the A330

Credit: Routes online.

TUI Airways in summer 2020 season plans to launch new long-haul route from Manchester, which sees 1 weekly Manchester – Cayo Coco service. From 26MAR20, Boeing 787-8 aircraft will operate this route on Thursdays, switching to 787-9 on Sundays.

26MAR20 – 23APR20
TOM174 MAN1000 – 1525CCC 788 4
TOM175 CCC1755 – 0625+1MAN 788 4

03MAY20 – 18OCT20
TOM174 MAN1000 – 1425CCC 789 7
TOM175 CCC1655 – 0625+1MAN 789 7

25OCT20
TOM174 MAN1000 – 1525CCC 789 7
TOM175 CCC1755 – 0625+1MAN 789 7

[FFMAN]

BGI on VS is available in business class for less than £2k throughout the summer...

Summer in the Caribbean is considered off-season particularly from July/August onwards.
One of the problems with Virgin, TUI (and Thomas Cook were the same) is that they prioritize their seats for their holiday brands leaving independent travellers to pick up the scraps sometimes at exhorbitant fares.

[FFMAN]

One question I've been meaning to ask the forum is:
What new flights / destinations will there be in 2020 and what service / frequency upgrades are there (announced and bookable rather than rumours)? I'm aware of some but I'm sure not all, it's difficult to keep track.
It seems remarkably difficult to get a summary anywhere. You would think that MAN would be singing this from the rooftops but their website is just a mess of car parking special offers and duty free promotions whenever I look.
If someone could summarize, I would be very grateful (and may even get to fly on some of them!)
Thanks in advance

[Severn]

The TUI website suggests these flights will be to VRA (Varadero Airport), not CCC.

[eggc]

BGI on VS is available in business class for less than £2k throughout the summer...

There is no business class from MAN, unless you mean premium economy ? Summer is also out of season. It’s mainly a winter destination.

i mentioned in a earlier post when trying to add friends, VS wanted an ADDITIONAL £500 per passenger to downgrade me and’th Mrs from Premium Economy to Economy to sit with our friends if they came. VS didn’t hide the reason....severe lack of seats and full flights ! We chose not to accept their offer obviously !!

[PDXCWL45]

There is no business class from MAN, unless you mean premium economy ? Summer is also out of season. It’s mainly a winter destination.

i mentioned in a earlier post when trying to add friends, VS wanted an ADDITIONAL £500 per passenger to downgrade me and’th Mrs from Premium Economy to Economy to sit with our friends if they came. VS didn’t hide the reason....severe lack of seats and full flights ! We chose not to accept their offer obviously !!
Virgin sell their Upper class on all flights from MAN

[eggc]

I stand corrected, thanks PDX...thought the 330's were only 2 class....didnt spot the upper class seats on way out and we were close to the front. Must need glasses ;)

[PDXCWL45]

I stand corrected, thanks PDX...thought the 330's were only 2 class....didnt spot the upper class seats on way out and we were close to the front. Must need glasses ;)
The 200s have 19 seats ex Air Berlin I believe.

[eggc]

Yeah, your spot on...19 lie flat...they hid them well from us paupers in Economy / Premium Economy :}

[dave59]

SUMMARY
1.1 During the winter period, dual-runway operating hours will operate based on seasonal demand.
2.0 PROGRAMME
2.1 Standard dual-runway operating hours will be altered in line with demand for the 2019/20 winter season.
All times quoted in this Operational Advice Notice are local.
3.0 STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS (Monday to Friday Inclusive)
3.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:30hrs - 10:30hrs and 16:00hrs – 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.
3.2 SATURDAY STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS
3.2.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:30hrs - 10:30hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.
3.3 SUNDAY STANDARD RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS
3.3.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 16:00hrs – 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times unless traffic demands both
runways to be operational.

So there will be delays then. Fuel wasted and time wasted. When traffic demands? How fast is the response when traffic builds up?

[eggc]

We cant possibly upset the posh folk at the other end of airport ! Always makes me laugh a/c dog leg to avoid a few upper class villages in Cheshire, but sail straight out over densely populated, but much poorer, Stockport.

[Be a good chap]

We cant possibly upset the posh folk at the other end of airport ! Always makes me laugh a/c dog leg to avoid a few upper class villages in Cheshire, but sail straight out over densely populated, but much poorer, Stockport.

I wonder where the airport management are located?

[tartan 201]

PEK reducing to three-weekly apparently: https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1214253416899317760

[110Cornets]

PEK reducing to three-weekly apparently: https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1214253416899317760

Yep, and on the days the SHA service does not run. Leaves MAN with a daily service to China, excl Sunday.

[flyerguy]

Looks like fun today/tonight for Emirates.

EK19 arriving about 23:30 this evening
EK17 arriving about 02:15 in the early hours

With the EK17 meant to depart before the 19. I suppose that they will fill up the EK19 with as many connections as possible? Not sure how EK work when this happens.

[STATSMAN]

Problems at DXB due weather. Heavy rain in UAE causing problems.

[flyerguy]

Problems at DXB due weather. Heavy rain in UAE causing problems.

Yeah! I seen, work for an airline and was there last week and it was raining heavily then.

I suppose they don’t have too notch draining there? As they don’t expect flash flooding? Although I think it has happened before

[LBIA]

Wonder who put the complaint in?
Manchester Airport is now facing a market power probe by CAA
​​​​​http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/354694/manchester-airport-faces-market-power-probe

[Rutan16]

Guess either Peal or Birmingham no one else could possibly possibly think they would benefit imho.

[GrahamK]

New easyjet flights to SSH and FCO (year round) and MAH (summer)

[Scottie Dog]

Before I make this post can I say how much I appreciate the support that certain members have given to me with regards to the MANTP updates that I post. There have also been various comments to the opposite effect and also a rather disparaging PM from somebody who should know better.

This will therefore be my last update on the matter of the MANTP project however, if you would like to receive details in the future then please send me a PM and I'll include you in a private listing.

Scottie Dog

MANTP Update #123 is now available, courtesy of the MANTP Team

https://i.ibb.co/h8dGFBc/Screenshot-643.png

https://i.ibb.co/sCb6pXh/Screenshot-644.png

https://i.ibb.co/hD26fFV/Screenshot-646.png

https://i.ibb.co/XxZN8Rj/Screenshot-647.png

https://i.ibb.co/ftht7nS/Screenshot-648.png

https://i.ibb.co/jvryWDv/Screenshot-649.png

[redED]

Before I make this post can I say how much I appreciate the support that certain members have given to me with regards to the MANTP updates that I post. There have also been various comments to the opposite effect and also a rather disparaging PM from somebody who should know better.

This will therefore be my last update on the matter of the MANTP project however, if you would like to receive details in the future then please send me a PM and I'll include you in a private listing.

Scottie Dog



Ignore the haters Scottie, there’re too many self important keyboard warriors out there willing to put everyone else down.

[MKY661]

New easyjet flights to SSH and FCO (year round) and MAH (summer)

Good to see SSH Returning, and I believe MAH has also been operated by EZY in the past. FCO is quite a good choice too.

[Scottie Dog]

Your inbox is full so I can't reply to your PM.

[cockyp]

Scottie Dog -- I've emptied it - thanks :)

[Scottie Dog]

I've received your PM but your inbox is full so I cant reply. Please free up some space.

[Reversethrustset]

Scottie Dog, so you're going to let the whingers drive you off here with your updates? More fool you, that's very disappointing to hear. They're sat behind their little keyboards laughing their pants off at this because they've won and you've let them.

[LFC22]

Agree with the above, why let a small number of idiot moaners stop you from posting vital updates? I'd like to be included in the PM's. Is it possible to get a larger res image as I can't see much on the ones posted on this page?

[Manchester Exile]

Many thanks to Scottie Dog for posting the MAN TP updates, which are invaluable to an exile like me on the other side of the world. To the offenderatti who object to the posts, may I remind you that the forum is named "Airlines, Airports and Routes", concerning "Topics about airports." I fail to see what part of Scottie's updates falls foul of this. If you don't like it, simply scroll past. But as usual, the high-and-mighty brigade insist on forcing their views on everyone else, so all of us who have a keen interest in the terminal redevelopment are disadvantaged.

I understand Scotttie's position fully, and what a shame that his good intentions have been slated by what appears to be a tiny minority of whingers. Such a pity that his reward for taking the time and effort to post a valid topic is met with keyboard-warrior hostility that seems to have descended into throwing personal insults at him.

[Manchester Exile]

Wonder who put the complaint in?
Manchester Airport is now facing a market power probe by CAA
​​​​​http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/354694/manchester-airport-faces-market-power-probe

I wonder if it was an airline, rather than a competing airport, that made the complaint? Perhaps a carrier is unhappy with the aerodrome charges.

[Plane mad 134]

New MAN-YHZ 4x weekly on B737Max8 eff 1st June 2020.

[116d]

New MAN-YHZ 4x weekly on B737Max8 eff 1st June 2020.

It would appear to be WestJet if this blog post is true...

https://airportrumours.********.com/2020/01/westjet-adds-halifax.html?m=1

It's citing 737-800 though, however I'd have thought it makes no sense to announce new routes that use the MAX whilst they're still grounded indefinitely.

[chaps1954]

I think it is a B737 700 not a MAX

[Mr A Tis]

Doh!! I've just booked MAN YHZ in June via YYZ as there is no direct service. A bit more notice would have been useful :-( It's not on the Westjet website, so not bookable yet. I'm sure many potential customers would already have booked for June. Mind you if it ends up on a Max- it may well put many people off.

[pwalhx]

The article in the Manchester Evening News references an airline making the complaint.

[wesleyscott]

its deffo a 737 700 and its on their website now

[VickersVicount]

I think it is a B737 700 not a MAX
GLA was certainly planned to change to 738MAX before the debacle

[dave59]

At 1908 arrival info on MAN web site showed BG007 as "due at 1841" when the flight had diverted and was actually on the ground at LHR. Are these feeds not permanently linked to reality? FR24 was showing correct info.

[avicon13]

Wonder who put the complaint in?
Manchester Airport is now facing a market power probe by CAA
​​​​​http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/354694/manchester-airport-faces-market-power-probe

Could it be Leeds Bradford International Airport? LBIA

[PDXCWL45]

Could it be Leeds Bradford International Airport? LBIA
Apparently it was an airline.

[Nostoodian]

Apparently it was an airline.
It's got interference from British Airways written all over it.

[SWBKCB]

A Manchester Airport spokesman said: "MAG notes the CAA’s announcement regarding the request from an airline to carry out a market power determination assessment of Manchester Airport. Because the CAA has not previously carried out such a review for Manchester, it is under a legal obligation to agree to the airline request. We will participate in the review process and look forward to contributing to the CAA’s work programme. The regulator has carried out Market Power Determination on Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted airports in previous years. Heathrow and Gatwick are currently subject to greater CAA regulation


Manchester Airport could face more regulation after steep rise in passenger numbers (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-could-face-more-17574345)

[VickersVicount]

It's got interference from British Airways written all over it.
Can't see BA having the time or inclination for this...

[SWBKCB]

Can't see BA having the time or inclination for this...

How much time and effort would BA have to put in??

[zfw]

At 1908 arrival info on MAN web site showed BG007 as "due at 1841" when the flight had diverted and was actually on the ground at LHR. Are these feeds not permanently linked to reality? FR24 was showing correct info.

I was working yesterday and use the info on the airport system for my job, had not even realised that the EY had diverted to Birmingham as there was no update which is down to ATC and the Handling Agents, found the info out by using FR24.

[Nostoodian]

Apparently Thai Airways have cancelled their summer 2020 slots. No surprises there then. Anyone know if they have slots allocated for winter 2020? If so, could there be a delayed launch of this route. Anyone in the know?

[Rutan16]

Winter slots ain’t up for grabs anytime soon.

On a differing note appears El-Al aren’t doing too well again . Down to just a single weekly flight through to the spring, according to a well know “routes site”

Cathay down to 6 daily in May

Hainan remains on 3 weekly through summer -not so bad given their financial conditions and cuts everywhere including their long standing Brussels flights down to five weekly in part of the northern summer schedules.

Indeed seems to be a general trend of consolidation across the entire Chinese aviation industry right now - the party are obviously fed up with the ever increasing and blooming debt this industry is creating for them !

No Seattle or SFO this coming summer

Still nothing to/from India cepting the Goa crab cocktail and beach service !

Flybe remains on life support through and if they collapse- well let’s just not go there rights now

Gains a few

Juneyao three weekly

Virgin/Delta capacity uplifts and currently hollow promises on further routes in the near future

Biman to continue through summer

Jet2 continue to push forward at an alarming rate

Easy and Ryan a few new awayday aircraft trips

Air Baltic well we will see if they remain - historically a bit shifty in both senses of the word especially when it comes to committing long term to anywhere!

The shamrock plays the timetable game - guess the frequency today tomorrow next week !

Nice up lift from the Turks as they chase the budget Anatolian coastal market once again (as Euro area becomes increasingly pricey-it a cynical thing - only broken by mad murdering criminal acts) and THY chasing connections via their nice and new hub facility.

Westjet - nice short programme for the fishing community, seal watchers, and lobster eaters with touch of VFR traffic

Oh plus Sharm and Enfidha back on the map subject to the same caveat mentioned in the Turkish paragraph above

True the wreckage of TCX is gradually being back filled

Another negative a certain disruptive force at the end next week that will have an economical impact, yet to be truly understood by anyone even learned economists and their various differing models.

2020 is going to be a difficult year for the industry imho and a stable 1% even nil growth in terminal numbers might well be considered a positive result , a small drop may actually happen later in the year if the early bookings of holidays and even business planning trips (mine included) are anything to go by.

Seat capacity is said to be up at the moment however I expect some consolidation to happen after Easter if the current booking trends remain where they are.

Just don’t see passing 30m this year or indeed next to be honest. Just my opinion happy to be proved wrong on this measure .

[chaps1954]

Wow that is a very negative view
Easy have actually added 2 aircraft, other than some long haul most of TCX has been replaced and some

[spannersatcx]

Cathay down to 6 daily in May, surely that's an increase of 5 per day!
​​​​​​​

[zfw]

"other than some long haul most of TCX"
And there's why numbers will be down up to 9 324 seaters in the summer departing everyday, and the only slack taken up by expensive and only on certain routes VS. So around half a million seats down on last summer.

[Rutan16]

, surely that's an increase of 5 per day!


My bad !

Of course it’s 6 weekly

Still imagine the utter carnage 6 daily would course among the what is 2 or 3 stevedores moving all those pallets !

​​​​​​​

[Rutan16]

Wow that is a very negative view
Easy have actually added 2 aircraft, other than some long haul most of TCX has been replaced and some

Wheres the negativity just my considered opinion.

Listed quite a few positives and caveats at the end with a my desire to be proved wrong on final end of year figures

[Navpi]

Only the most seasoned traveller will be aware of pre clearance at DUB, I suspect most pax book based on price.

Its clearly not that much of a pull for the many 000s who connect at Manchester for Orlando flights rather than use
DUB as point of departure for direct flights OR use a connection via a US airport. Price / Capacity is everything.

[MANFOD]

Wheres the negativity just my considered opinion.

Listed quite a few positives and caveats at the end with a my desire to be proved wrong on final end of year figures

I don't think you or anyone should be criticised for introducing a degree of realism into how they view the situation.

TCX operated over 40 weekly long haul departures to the USA, Mexico and the Caribbean with up to 7 based aircraft. It's disappointing that SFO and SEA will not appear on MAN's boards this summer. While VS and TUI have announced a few added flights for this summer, they only make a very modest inroad into the TCX seats lost. It's fair to say that some of us are slightly underwhelmed by Virgin's reaction to the TCX situation while understanding that aircraft availability and requirements at LHR and LGW were relevant factors.

Going East, the new services by Biman and Juneyao are of course welcome and I'm still hoping we'll see Thai in my lifetime even as a mature pensioner!

The recovery and backfill on short haul is good news for which MAN have done well, but again the risk of consolidation is a perfectly valid point to make when for example Jet 2 have 4 daily departures to Palma I believe in peak summer, apart from flights by other carriers.

If 2020 turns out to be flat in terms of passenger numbers, it won't in my view be a bad achievement. If it finishes in positive territory, I will be well pleased.

[TURIN]

I have a horrible feeling that Juneo, Hainan, Cathy etc will be having a sabbatical for a while.

[Mr A Tis]

Anyone know where I could find the BACF schedule from MAN for S20 ?

[Seljuk22]

Ryanair to add Copenhagen (daily), Kerry (twice weekly) and Paris Beauvais (4 times weekly) from end of March
https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-launches-3-new-manchester-routes-for-summer-2020/?market=en

[Rutan16]

Anyone know where I could find the BACF schedule from MAN for S20 ?

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/flights-and-holidays/flights/flights-from-manchester-airport

[spannersatcx]

I have a horrible feeling that Juneo, Hainan, Cathy etc will be having a sabbatical for a while.
Who's Cathy :rolleyes:​​​​​​?
Flights are full inbound at the moment on CX.

[Flying Hi]

Who's Cathy :rolleyes:​​​​​​?

Didn't she go home?

[BAladdy]

Anyone know where I could find the BACF schedule from MAN for S20 ?

Below is the S20 schedule currently available to book on BA website. Weekly DUB will not continue for S20. Further changes are likely

Alicante

BA7321 MAN 06:09 ALC 09:45 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)
BA7322 ALC 10:35 MAN 12:30 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

Florence

BA7331 MAN 14:40 FLR 18:15 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)
BA7332 FLR 19:00 MAN 20:35 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

Ibiza

BA7313 MAN 14:45 IBZ 18:35 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)
BA7314 IBZ 10:45 MAN 12:30 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

London City

BA7311 MAN 11:40 LCY 12:40 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)
BA7333 MAN 13:15 LCY 14:15 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)

BA7310 LCY 20:00 MAN 21:00 5 (15MAY20-25SEP20)
BA7312 LCY 21:25 MAN 22:20 5 (15MAY20-25SEP20)

Malaga

BA7315 MAN 06:50 AGP 10:50 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)
BA7317 MAN 14:00 AGP 18:00 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)
BA7317 MAN 15:00 AGP 19:00 6 (17MAY20-27SEP20)

BA7316 AGP 11:35 MAN 13:40 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)
BA7318 AGP 19:45 MAN 21:50 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

Mykonos

BA7319 MAN 13:50 JMK 20:00 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)
BA7320 JMK 21:00 MAN 23:15 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

Nice

BA7323 MAN 06:40 NCE 10:00 7 (24MAY20-06SEP20)
BA7323 MAN 13:45 NCE 17:05 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

BA7324 NCE 10:45 MAN 12:10 7 (24MAY20-06SEP20)
BA7324 NCE 17:50 MAN 19:15 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

Palma

BA7325 MAN 06:00 PMI 09:45 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)

BA7326 PMI 10:30 MAN 12:15 7 (17MAY20-27SEP20)
BA7326 PMI 11:45 MAN 13:30 6 (16MAY20-26SEP20)

[Flightlevel001]

Does anyone know what might happen to the TCX hangar? Looks like someone is still paying to keep the lights on... I did hear that there was an aircraft in there that was halfway through a check but could be a rumour ofc... Presumably, MAN will want those mothballed A330s gone before the summer starts up.