Manchester-2 [Archive] - Page 10

GSM763

24th Aug 2018, 13:39

Reading this forum it appears that if there is arrogance anywhere it’s from the frequent users (pax and staff) that seem to think a red carpet should be rolled out before them, rather than having to mix with the commoners. Even more arrogance is then shown by thinking anybody reading an airport forum wants to listen to their constant carping, which is not borne out by the stats (Luton and Stansted are worse. Heathrow in the news for weeks of 4hr+ delays recently) . Then the final, supreme arrogance in assuming anybody recounting a positive experience is either an airport spokesman in disguise or is just benefitting from all the interminable whining that the regular suspects have deposited ( like a steaming dog turd) in this forum.

There is is a massive project ongoing to fix the issues, which surely means there is no arrogance? Except some on here think it’s arrogant to think that spending vast sums of money will fix a problem. Can’t win it seems.
Security at MAN was a total bin over Spring and early Summer. It's improved in recent weeks but still is pretty poor by the standards of the airports I use (which don't include STN and LTN admittedly but does include EDI, LHR, CDG and a multitude of other European airports).

The ongoing project is great news but I feel (as I've said before) that we're in the same place that LHR was in about 2005. The upcoming investment (enlarged T2 in this case, T5 in that case) is used to excuse things being very poor in the meantime. The attitude of the customer facing staff in both cases didn't help. Shouting loudly at queues seems to have become the norm in MAN security areas. I don't think any staff are doing it maliciously but it doesn't half make the area feel stressed and unpleasant. Everything at MAN feels very stretched at the moment and I don't think it's entirely down to lack of physical infrastructure. I have never, ever, ever seen all of the security lanes at T3 open and I've been through at least 25 times in the last year - often on Friday evenings, Monday mornings and other 'peak' times.

Nelson42

24th Aug 2018, 13:53

I live some 120 miles away from this airport and use it up to a dozen times a year, with all sort of carriers and equipment at all times of the day, over many years now. It is admittedly very busy at the moment but I have never had to wait more than 20 minutes at either security or baggage over all those years, and have never found any employees to be surly or rude.

I have however witnessed rude and surely passengers who have no idea about the complexities behind their border and security rolls. On my last visit to MAN I had in front of me a passenger who created such a loud scene when she accused the scanner equipment/personnel of loosing her passport and boarding card, and when, after an exhaustive search of the ‘catch alls’ underneath the moving belts, nothing was found, she discovered the items in one of her inside pockets! A cursory nod to the officials ensued, then she picked up her belongings and disappeared….no apologies….nothing….unbelievable! That one was 20miutes!!

Interestingly when I raised my eyebrows and smiled at the guy who had taken all the shouting and flack dealing with this (calmly I might add) he told me this was such common occurrence. More interestingly he informed me that at least once a week a ‘mystery passenger’ with a banned item (sometimes as small a lipstick) deliberately passes through each terminal's security, and if the infringement is not spotted and challenged, the X-ray operator is immediately taken off duty and disciplined or usually sacked!

So, cut these guys some slack will you? :-))

I count myself as lucky having such a facility within a couple of hours of my home and without it would face the long trip to the London terminals.

Mr A Tis

24th Aug 2018, 13:57

With the greatest respect Turtle you miss the point entirely.
What is the point in spending a billion if it will not be any better? Manchester does not staff the existing security channels now. Manchester does not fix exit doors that have been u/s in T1 & T3 for weeks- if not longer. Is it acceptable to wait one hour for the extra security bag desk? Is it acceptable to wait 30 minutes for fast track security?
To blame the passenger for delays beggars belief.
In the last 3 weeks I have passed through Manchester, Helsinki, Tallinn, Vilnius, Oslo, Riga, Dublin & Southend airports- The ONLY holdups I have had anywhere is in Manchester.
Nobody is asking for a red carpet- just that they treat people with respect.
My colleague is VP at a giant global company based in HKG. He travels constantly around the globe in all continents. His only hassle is at MAN and I cannot repeat the texts that he has sent me about our airport. He has in fact just this week re-arranged his next European tour schedule so that he visits the UK using CX out of T3 at LHR purely to avoid this place.
The fact that certain airlines, the DfT & the CAA have had words speaks for itself.
- Anyway, I shall give this Manchester mutual appreciation thread a rest for a while now & leave you all to grumble about your customers that pay your wages. Goodbye.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/08/luton-named-worst-uk-airport-for-the-third-year-running/

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-baggage-reclaim-bags-15071778 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-baggage-reclaim-bags-15071778)

Suzeman

24th Aug 2018, 22:07

I guess the number of tea & biscuit chats by a number of airline bosses, the CAA & The Dept of Transport with MAN managers have had an effect after all.

Blimey - but things can't be that bad if biscuits were involved :ok:

TURIN

24th Aug 2018, 22:26

More interestingly he informed me that at least once a week a ‘mystery passenger’ with a banned item (sometimes as small a lipstick) deliberately passes through each terminal's security, and if the infringement is not spotted and challenged, the X-ray operator is immediately taken off duty and disciplined or usually sacked!

Indeed. I have been told they operate a '3 strikes and you're out' policy. Management by fear. No wonder the staff are edgy. What a great way to run a business.

southside bobby

25th Aug 2018, 06:30

Is it possible that security at MAN as well as all UK airports adhere to the same very strict CAA governance...

Ringwayman

25th Aug 2018, 08:13

seafire6b

25th Aug 2018, 08:54

Is it possible that security at MAN as well as all UK airports adhere to the same very strict CAA governance...

Yes, "adherence" is a legal requirement. However, irrespective of the "same very strict" CAA rules, if you've transited various UK airports, you'll be aware their actual interpretation might frequently be a different matter.

As a very simple example, removal of shoes & belts. Sometimes it's necessary, other times it's not. The same shoes, the same belt and quite often, through the same airport! Within just the past few months, I've experienced that from STN, GLA and LHR.

TURIN

25th Aug 2018, 10:07

It is not arrogance to suggest that if the overwhelming majority of passengers do not have any of the reported issues at Manchester then it's the prima donnas that need to look at themselves as it has to be them that have the problems because they are too thick to understand a few simple instructions. And no, I'm not in any way shape or form affiliated to the Manchester Airport Group. And frankly I'd say that anyone not spotting a banned item needs to sacked on the 1st occasion and not the 3rd one as what's the point in them being employed in security - after all, if they miss something and an incident takes place, that is when REAL adverse publicity will occur, and not on the basis of 521 Which? respondents to a survey.

Good grief, where to begin. The vast majority don't complain. It doesn't mean they don't have a problem. They just suck it up. As a nation we are notorious for not complaining or making a fuss. Prima donnas!! Really? When a passenger travels through different airports frequently and only gets a problem at one of them, you are saying its the passenger's fault? Get real.

I see you are one of the hire and fire brigade. Fortunately, now a rarity in this industry. Think about it. You spend thousands and many man hours training people up, they make one mistake, and your answer is to sack them on the spot? Wrong. Everybody learns from their mistakes. The same error is unlikely to occur again. That individual has now learned a valuable lesson and hopefully will not do it again, especially if additional training is offered/required. Its called having a 'just culture' it is vital in the aviation industry and all safety critical work places that it is followed. Threatening people with the sack for an error is counter productive. No one learns from the error and it costs industry more money.

Something for your bedtime reading...

Just Culture (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Just_Culture)

Caravaggio

25th Aug 2018, 11:10

This blanket blame of Pax for the problems at MAN is lazy and points to a culture of failure to take responsibility for customer experience within management at MAG.
My last experience on arrivals at T3 3 days ago

1. Back steps of Plane not used. Pax fault?
2. X2 E-gates unserviceable. Pax fault?
3. 55 minute wait for luggage. Pax fault?
4. Long term unserviceable door. Air-landslide. Pax fault?
5. Shambles of arrangements for Pax pick up outside terminal. Pax fault?

I’d accept that some pax aren’t prepared adequately for security outbound. Possibly/probably those that travel rarely through MAN. After all security requirements vary dramatically from one airport to another, and even at the same airport from day to day. Perhaps what that highlights is poor signage and information delivery to the infrequent traveller.
Some advice from a customer to minimise delays at security.
1. Fully staff outbound security.
2.Ensure the security hardware works.
3. Train your staff adequately.
4. ‘Eyes and Teeth’. My shorthand for, Make eye contact with the traveler and smile at them.
5. Use all the security lanes at busy times.
6. ‘Secret shop’ the system with inexperienced travelers.

ZOOKER

25th Aug 2018, 11:14

From today's Manchester Evening News. Problems inbound as well as outbound.https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1209x715/screen_shot_2018_08_25_at_11_13_08_79f6ea674bbeae0b8d8cbc904 2d614eb1b94e2a5.png

Manchester Exile

25th Aug 2018, 11:20

Zooker, it is unquestionably the fault of the arriving passengers. Every single one of them in that photo needs to take a good look at themselves.

The96er

25th Aug 2018, 11:29

All those passengers chose to fly with cheapo airlines. That's what happens when you strip out too much cost out of the industry.

inOban

25th Aug 2018, 11:31

The customer is almost always right, even if they're wrong. If they don't follow the rules it's because the rules weren't clear and simple, and that's not their fault.

Remember the distinction between communication and broadcasting. The former requires that the information has not just been received but also understood. And that's the responsibility of the organisation, not the customer.

DomyDom

25th Aug 2018, 12:05

Went through T1 at MAN yesterday afternoon
Security staff were friendly, polite and efficient even though it was a busy B/H Friday afternoon. Despite many unprepared PAX I didn't see anyone of them loose their cool. I must admit I find MAN security staff do a great job under a lot of pressure and no I don't know anyone who works there. You can't just employ anyone off the street to do this job, and like with many jobs in the UK there are labour shortfalls because of EU citizens deciding to leave the UK after outcome of the EU referendum. That people voted for Brexit is hardly the fault of them or MAN.

ZOOKER

25th Aug 2018, 12:56

TURIN

25th Aug 2018, 13:21

DomyDom, what a ridiculous statement. (As is your post No. 1725). Net migration from The EU was 87,000 in the 12 months to March 2018. Overall net Global migration to The U.K. was 270,000 over the same period.

Source: ONS Figures.

The devil is in the detail.
Some 226,000 EU citizens came to the UK and 138,000 EU citizens left in the year to the end of March.
If those that left were in established (by that I mean trained and experienced in role) jobs then replacements are not necessarily automatic and quick. But you are correct, we can't blame the mess at MAN on Brexit...not yet anyway.

Skipness One Foxtrot

25th Aug 2018, 16:52

Is it possible that security at MAN as well as all UK airports adhere to the same very strict CAA governance...
I came through T2 a while back and was *ordered* not to try and drink the last of my water bottle that I had left in my bag, and if I attempted to do so, he would call the Police and I would be detained. He genuinely told
me I could be drinking liquid explosives and trying to blow myself up. I had no problem doing as he said but it was the zeal and the attitude that was frightening.
There is a calm and a rationale that you find at some airports that MAN had lost entirely. The gentlemen told me in no uncertain terms that MAN not only met DfT guidelines but went further and did things “the right eay, the Manchester way”. Now that sort of fear is driven from the top. Some airports help you through and only put barriers where they have to, MAN consciously go the extra mile to put barriers in your way, the MAN way. And IMHO T3 is the worst passenger experience in the first world.

Espada III

25th Aug 2018, 21:22

For the first time in a long time I travelled with my wife, using hand luggage only yet with toiletries. We read the rules and chose to use a high quality clear plastic bag belonging to my wife with a zip fastener. It contained all our toiletry needs for several days.

We were forced downstairs in T1 to go through security and on arrival at a 'counter' were told of different rules; i.e. one airport supplied translucent plastic per person. They were too small for our goods, although stripping out the non-liquid stuff meant we got through. But the attitude and random changing of the rules was inexcusable.

I fail to understand why MAG do not use all the security lanes on the main level. As a regular passenger who arrives at the airport only say an hour before the flight, I rarely have enought time to do more than buy more than a coffee, but many people see the airport experience as the start of their holiday and expect to buy expensive things in 'Duty Free'. Surely processing passengers through more quickly and easily means they have more time to buy things in the departure lounge. This should more than compsensate for the loss of the income from Fast Track through security.

MKY661

26th Aug 2018, 00:33

We were forced downstairs in T1 to go through security and on arrival at a 'counter' were told of different rules; i.e. one airport supplied translucent plastic per person. They were too small for our goods, although stripping out the non-liquid stuff meant we got through. But the attitude and random changing of the rules was inexcusable.

I fail to understand why MAG do not use all the security lanes on the main level. .

We were also sent downstairs in July for some reason, I thought that the Area B Security was designed for passengers who were using Ground Level Check-In, and the Main Security area (which has six more security desks than Area B I think?) was to be used for everyone else?

The96er

27th Aug 2018, 21:37

There are many of East European stock working at MAN Security and perform just as competently as any English born and bred staff :rolleyes:

Skipness One Foxtrot

27th Aug 2018, 21:47

You can't just employ anyone off the street to do this job,
Yeah, you literally can, so long as they pass CRB.

Navpi

28th Aug 2018, 09:16

I don't have the inside track on Manchester to know where the blame lies but I do know that Manchester Airports reputation is becoming even more tarnished.

Taxiways crumbling
Buckets out for water
Security queues
Baggage hold ups
Delays getting to car parks
Vile toilets

Thank goodness we are treated as a backwater otherwise we would be on the BBC every week.

Personally I'm sick of an anonymous airport spokesperson saying "this" or an airport spokesperson saying "that".

Who is in charge ?

The board dont own Manchester they are lodgers passing thru, but whilst they are there they are running the show.

Please someone get a bloody grip!!!

DomyDom

28th Aug 2018, 10:02

Yeah, you literally can, so long as they pass CRB.
Really? Just a CRB check? Without any assessment, training or supervision. That is concerning.

DomyDom

28th Aug 2018, 10:06

In all the years I have worked as professional pilot I can not ever remember coming across someone who appeared to be from another EU country who was working in airport security in the UK.

Can you not keep your remoaning of this forum, we wouldn't want it to become like BBC news twitter would we.
Ouch! I obviously touched a nerve there. I am suprised about that as I'm sure as a PAX i've come across several but I must have imagined it.

GLAEDI

28th Aug 2018, 17:03

Ouch! I obviously touched a nerve there. I am suprised about that as I'm sure as a PAX i've come across several but I must have imagined it.

I don’t know how he’s not met any EU nats working at Airport Security but from my experience working closely MAG, AGS, GIP and LHR airport Security staff. All these airport groups employ EU Nats. It’s not a reserved post for GBR Nats so Irish, Poles and the like are legally allowed to work in that role.

Betablockeruk

30th Aug 2018, 08:24

Bit of a 'And here's what you could have won!'' moment this morning with AA sending a 787-9 on the soon to be gone AA54. Not sure what warranted the extra capacity.

The96er

30th Aug 2018, 14:58

Council Van, I do find it a bit strange that you obviously despise being a member of the EU working in an industry that has no doubt benefited massively by being a member . :confused:

DomyDom

30th Aug 2018, 19:15

Council Van, you haven't wound me up but we will have to agree to differ on Brexit. Time will tell if Brexit is a success. Thank you for your kind offer for me to come up front by the way. And now back to aviation news....

inOban

30th Aug 2018, 20:49

UK citizens holidaying or resident elsewhere in EU make a far larger claim on the health services of the 27 than they do on ours.

TURIN

30th Aug 2018, 20:58

Can we all just leave Brexit out of this please? Jet Blast has dozens of pages on it.

Ivan aromer

31st Aug 2018, 14:35

UK citizens holidaying or resident elsewhere in EU make a far larger claim on the health services of the 27 than they do on ours.
of course you have some reliable data to back up you claim?

Armodeen

31st Aug 2018, 16:43

It's an established fact. I can't be bothered to search for it for you, but perhaps the original poster will.

Can we return to the airport now please?

of course you have some reliable data to back up you claim?

inOban

31st Aug 2018, 16:43

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/treating-uk-tourists-in-europe-costs-five-times-more-than-equivalent-cost-to-nhs

Data obtained under FOI.

ZULUBOY

31st Aug 2018, 21:39

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/treating-uk-tourists-in-europe-costs-five-times-more-than-equivalent-cost-to-nhs

Data obtained under FOI.
Please don't post facts for the likes of Council Van.

tokyostich

3rd Sep 2018, 08:46

Just wanted to post some quick inside information that it looks like Menzies will lose Easyjet, and no wonder with that given soon EZY will have 17 aircraft based and Menzies barely make do with the 12 currently based. There have been many mistakes, delays and bad customer service with people waiting regularly for over an hour for their baggage at night. Most likely Easyjet will be going to DHL, just like at LGW. And also another interesting development is that Premium Handling have won the contract for Jet Airways, which is the big contract they have been talking about for so long. They are quite used to handling some small planes, if I am right the biggest thing they handle regularly are the scheduled Titan B757s, but now they will be up for handling the B777 to Mumbai. There are some speculations for Menzies getting to handle PIA, Etihad and Ethiopian, which is very surprising in terms of Swissport.

rkenyon

5th Sep 2018, 23:05

I see the Etihad lounge is now closed. Rebranded as a 1903 lounge like T3. £45 for 2 hours :mad:

ZOOKER

6th Sep 2018, 10:18

What, 45 quid just to sit in a waiting room?

Ivan aromer

6th Sep 2018, 17:16

What, 45 quid just to sit in a waiting room?
Posh waiting room please! This is MAN when all said and done.

ZOOKER

6th Sep 2018, 18:46

Plus yer 'Drop-Off Fee' Ivan......Cheap at half the price!

USERNAME_

7th Sep 2018, 12:14

Virgin 747 with an accidental slide deployment in MAN this morning. Don't see how it could be accidental from the top deck? Unless it was a passenger perhaps.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/724x960/41406784_559531164503408_6946740302812020736_n_d22ed3e732d87 efcc2e88e0a6fb8ac4724471b3d.jpg

LAX_LHR

7th Sep 2018, 12:59

spannersatcx

7th Sep 2018, 14:48

roverman

7th Sep 2018, 16:53

Easyjet have said that their ‘worldwide by easyjet’ Concept will be rolled out to MAN ‘in the coming months’.

singapore airlines and Thomas Cook likely to be biggest benefactors at MAN. And indeed, for the latter, the connection possibilities could increase by a huge amount. GRX/GOA/PSA-MAN-JFK as just 3 examples possible on a single ticket could be quite attractive for those in those destinations looking for more options on Long haul LCC travel.

Further evidence that the industry is moving away from the traditional dominant-carrier hub model (LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS etc) and that the future offers many more possibilities for travelers who can find connecting options via a combination of full service and LCCs. It may start off a bit ragged, with a less than seamless transit through the connecting airport, but that will surely change as both the airports and airlines grasp the opportunities. It weakens the case for LHR R3, which is founded on the 'there's only one hub for the UK' argument. Airports like MAN, with a vast range of destinations and airlines but no major hub operator, are well-placed to benefit from this emerging trend. He says, as 105 passengers join Thomas Cook's MAN-Seattle flight yesterday from a range of UK and EU connections.

Scottie Dog

7th Sep 2018, 17:10

My only concern Roverman is whether Manchester will have the ability to handle the possibly large number of transfer passengers. I believe the transfer facility at present is near gate 16 in T1, but that this is already struggling to cope in the peak summer months.

Mr A Tis

7th Sep 2018, 17:24

Most reports I have read about using Manchester as a Transfer / transit airport have been highly critical.
It will be most likely 10 years before Manchester can handle transfer passengers properly when all the TP is completed.
Contrast with DUB who have just spent and already opened a £16M transfer hub and are doing very well out of it.

FFMAN

7th Sep 2018, 18:12

LAX_LHR

7th Sep 2018, 19:23

The connection facility will be improved when it gets a bigger one in T2. The current transfer area was never designed to handle the volume going through it and has a design flaw that leaves the domestic border vulnerable if not managed correctly.

as said, plans are in motion to improve this and will be a much better and more seamless process. As said, the area was never intended for this volume and volumes are increasing much quicker than forecast.

roverman

7th Sep 2018, 22:33

This Easyjet initiative has to be welcomed as it has the potential to make marginal routes more sustainable or previously unviable routes viable.

However, I have never heard a good thing about the transfer process at MAN and having 3 unconnected terminals won't help.
I have a colleague in Belfast that used to transfer over MAN but after two consecutive particularly bad experiences, she has sworn never to do so in the future. She now connects at LHR telling me it's much better or even drives to Dublin on occasions too. She describes the transfer experience at MAN as 'amateurish'. I'm certain she has shared that view with colleagues over there.

Rest assured that MAN is taking transfer traffic seriously. From 2022 there will be only 2 terminals, T2 will have a domestic capability although the majority of domestic will continue to use T3, from which there will be a much improved transfer process via a purpose-built facility very centrally located at the expanded T2. T1 closes. Heathrow does OK with 5 unconnected terminals and so MAN will be fine with 2 terminals and a system to transfer passengers between them quickly.

ETOPS

8th Sep 2018, 07:18

Easy enough to accidentally deploy the slide.

As a 747 Capt I've done "doors" numerous times at SEP and opened and shut all of the door types down route more than once.
The actions for arming/disarming the upper deck door, as opposed to opening, it couldn't be more different. Couple that with the fact that this door is not routinely opened makes me wonder who exactly did this?

Navpi

8th Sep 2018, 09:32

Habana2118

9th Sep 2018, 07:57

What’s this with the MAG branded aircraft steps in the pic with the TUI aircraft, has Manchester airport started its own ramp handling again?

roverman

9th Sep 2018, 08:27

What’s this with the MAG branded aircraft steps in the pic with the TUI aircraft, has Manchester airport started its own ramp handling again?

MAG provided 3 step units in 2017 when T2 West Pier was demolished and therefore 4 air bridge gates lost. They are used by ground handlers at those stands (213-215), mainly Swissport. Gate 212 became a lounge to serve the remaining stands.

Habana2118

9th Sep 2018, 20:28

Ah ok that makes sense now ..

ian_h1

10th Sep 2018, 11:42

Cobalt to Larnaca going Summer Seasonal only from 2019

LAX_LHR

10th Sep 2018, 16:59

TUI add 1 weekly Rijeka, Croatia on Thursdays from May 2019. That’s 5 Croatian airports covered from MAN now.

Ex Cargo Clown

10th Sep 2018, 17:46

TUI add 1 weekly Rijeka, Croatia on Thursdays from May 2019. That’s 5 Croatian airports covered from MAN now.

I've now worked out who you are on Twitter, due to this tweet, "to introduce a new route from @manairport (https://twitter.com/manairport) to Rijeka in Croatia from May 2019. One weekly on Thursdays. That’s 5 Croatian airports covered"

Coincidence?

Curious Pax

11th Sep 2018, 10:32

ifu05596

11th Sep 2018, 16:41

SQ380

11th Sep 2018, 19:05

Hi Curious Pax

Went through T3 myself this morning just before you at 0530hrs for the 0630 Ryanair Madrid flight, only 4 out of the 11 security machine were in use two of which were for fast track the queue was back to the boarding pass machines, luckily for me as I joined the end of the queue there was announcement for flight regarding any cabin luggage to be put into the hold with this approached the friendly girl on fast track and she let me use the fast track however this was not fast as they were filtering in the normal queue into one of the fast track, then the guy with the trays was taking items out of your tray and spreading across two trays his excuse is that it stops you getting tray searched at the end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even after putting the trays on at fast track they only had one security screen working instead of two so basically slowing down again. so for out of 11 lanes open 3 out of 11 screening open, no wonder people complain,
Then the return landed on IB at 1710hrs got to passport control well walked passed it and joined the queue at gate 54 only 3 border force guards manning the posts out of 10 booths 30 minutes to clear and I could here people slating Manchester off in the queue, but if you were foreign and outside the EU you got to join a queue with no more than 3 or 4 in, us poor brits trying to get through these e gates that are suppose to be making it a lot quicker (caugh) only plus side was that once 2/3 the way down the queue they were pulling some out of the queue to go through the boarder guards, actually feel sorry for the staff on duty its clear they are under staffed and all were friendly except the guy with the trays, but shows time and time again the place is well and truly understaffed

Skipness One Foxtrot

12th Sep 2018, 00:27

It weakens the case for LHR R3, which is founded on the 'there's only one hub for the UK' argument. Airports like MAN, with a vast range of destinations and airlines but no major hub operator, are well-placed to benefit from this emerging trend. He says, as 105 passengers join Thomas Cook's MAN-Seattle flight yesterday from a range of UK and EU connection
Not sure about this Bagso.....er Navpi from East Anglia (!)
Not a single carrier or Alliance pushes a major focus on connections through MAN although of course some are offered. Comparisons with Dublin need to be taken with the realisation DUB has a based flag carrier and a feeder fleet of both mainline and franshise partners as well as Ryanair to EI unprotected connections being not uncommon. MAN has no such anchor tennant, indeed Thomas Cook have done remarkably well in having so many people connecting on long haul holiday flights (be interesting to see from which airline that 105 connected from), but comparisons with Heathrow are even less valid. STAR ALLIANCE even have their own branded terminal at T2 connecting AC, UA, TG, AI, BR etc to Europe with an existing critical mass. MAN should and could do better on connecting flights but without a based carrier, it won’t amount to anything that resembles a real hub, anymore than Gatters will, and that’s not a criticism as I am huge fan of both airports. (OK not MAN T3 as it just stresses me out enormously....)

MANFOD

12th Sep 2018, 13:14

I’m normally keen to defend MAN, but having had a 40 queue through security this morning wasn’t impressed to read this: MAN T3 Security chaos (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-passengers-hit-out-15135861)

I joined the queue just before 6, so no idea where the 2 hour wait that was quoted came from- as far as I could see it wasn’t getting much longer as I got to the front. However what annoys me is the airport spokesman claiming all lanes were open. There are 11 security machines in T3 - only 6 were in use.

On the plus side the staff were courteous- shouting instructions to the queue as you would expect, but not in a rude or unreasonable way.

MAN really needs to up its game, not just in dealing with the issue of long queues but in the PR statements it puts out when problems occur. Apologies for 'any' inconvenience caused, as happened a couple of weeks ago when some arriving passengers were waiting hours to collect their bags, are hardly satisfactory when it's blatantly obvious there was a good deal of inconvenience.

In the instance yesterday of security queues in T3, I'm not sure whether the spokesperson was being economical with the facts when stating all 'machines' were working, or whether it was clever / devious wording if all machines were working but only for the security lanes that were open.

MANFOD

12th Sep 2018, 13:27

In the previous post mentioning the long delays with baggage collection on that recent Friday night, reminded me that we were promised a full investigation by MAN with the handling agent as to what went wrong. Were the conclusions from that investigation ever announced or was it for internal consumption and action only?

BHX5DME

12th Sep 2018, 17:55

August Traffic

MAN down 0.6% - 3,146,198 rolling year 27,909,953
STN up 8.5% - 2,975,568 rolling year 27,223,584
EMA down 1.2% - 604,682 rolling year 4,847,256

MAN cargo down 12.7%, STN & EMA up

ifu05596

12th Sep 2018, 18:35

pholling

13th Sep 2018, 10:10

Also had my belongings spread across loads of trays - never had that before to that extent! Been arriving into Man the last few weeks and it’s a bit grim but departures was just as bad!

The loads of trays is probably in response to having a lot of bags sidelined for secondary screening. I saw a sign in BFS, coming back to MAN, about not packing your hand luggage densely to speed up the security process. The more things you have in a tray, especially in the 3rd dimension, the more likely one item will occlude the other. In which case you will probably see it bounced for a secondary inspection. If the secondary queue fills up it stops the whole screening process as bags cannot clear the x-ray machine until the queue is reduced. I flew out of MAN T3 last Friday and saw exactly this occur. The downside of having things spread over lots of trays is the pick-up queue quickly fills up. If this is coupled with a slow-down on the magnetometer/millimetre wave processing, this also backs-up everything. Of course traveller error can add a lot to it. There was a family in front of us that took ~10 mins to get their bags ready, blocking the whole queue as some were already on the main belt. The agent asked, quite patiently, if they had any liquids or electronics. They said no, they proceeded to discuss what they might have, with each other, for a few minutes. Then opened their bags, proceeded to root through them and pull out lots of liquids, none of which were in the little baggies. Then the security agent asked if they had any larger electrical items, and specifically mentioned hair dryers, straighteners, kettles, etc. They said no. She then asked specifically about hair dryers, and made the motion of using one. After about a minute of discussion amongst themselves out came 2 hair dryers. This then repeated for hair straighteners, same process, and out they came. It was so bad, that the security agent actually thanked my wife for being so organised, especially with a 2-year old. Little did she realise that I had the majority of our hand luggage for that very reason, and we have become separated when the biometrics computer had crashed in the assistance lane and they proceeded to add a bunch of regular passengers to the queue in between us.

I think some of the issues we have are a result of the ever increasing charges for hold luggage. This coupled with the general inability of ground handlers to process bags in a reasonable amount of time, it typically takes about 30mins for some companies to get the first bag out, dissuades people from checking items. This significantly increases the amount of items that have to be screened, increases the likelihood that any tray will require secondary screening, and also the amount of general faffing about at both the front end back end of the screening process. This may be part of the reason why T3 and T1 tend to present worse experiences than T2 when I travel. More of the T2 passengers are either on international flights that include hold luggage or package holidays that do too. As compared to the masses of Ryanair, Easyjet and local European flights that do not. Incidentally, the new Ryanair hand luggage policy from Nov 1 may lead to some improvement at security, as there will be fewer bags going through the screening process. However, Ryanair, Swissport, and MAG do not appear ready for all the new checked bags it will generate.

Nomoresteerage

13th Sep 2018, 11:05

The loads of trays is probably in response to having a lot of bags sidelined for secondary screening. I saw a sign in BFS, coming back to MAN, about not packing your hand luggage densely to speed up the security process. The more things you have in a tray, especially in the 3rd dimension, the more likely one item will occlude the other. In which case you will probably see it bounced for a secondary inspection.

It still amazes me that will all the advancements in technology over the last 35 years (my first flight) that screening selection is still reliant on a person to decide if something is suspect or not. Surely technology would be quicker and also able to asses in 3D as it is a binary decision whether to pull a bag or not - even if it flagged up more bags for secondary screening.

Trav a la

13th Sep 2018, 12:57

It still amazes me that will all the advancements in technology over the last 35 years (my first flight) that screening selection is still reliant on a person to decide if something is suspect or not. Surely technology would be quicker and also able to asses in 3D as it is a binary decision whether to pull a bag or not - even if it flagged up more bags for secondary screening.

Apparently not, there are just too many variables. Sometimes you cannot better the human eye/brain combination.

We have been pulled up for carrying bars of soap which, we were told, looks very suspicious. On another occasion it was instant coffee granules in sachets.

Security staff at MAN are under great pressure not to miss anything suspicious, get it wrong a couple of times and you are in fear of the consequences. They also have to undergo testing on a regular basis where they monitor the x-ray screen and also complete a test questionnaire. Anything less that 80% is a fail and will result in a opportunity to pass a second test, fail that and it's retraining or job reallocation to a Security Ambassador on less pay. Also X-ray screeners are monitored in whats called the matrix room, where they can also see the x-ray image and check if the operator has missed anything. The whole security area is also closely monitored by CCTV, so if anyone does make a mistake it will be seen and recorded.

What all this pressure does is result in the security staff becoming over cautious to avoid the consequences of missing anything. It's a high pressure job, often working long 12 hour shifts, so please make some allowance next time you are there.

I believe there are newer versions of the x-ray machines used at MAN which do not require liquids to be removed from baggage, as in some US airports. The cost will be astronomical but maybe some day they will be upgraded.

Mr A Tis

13th Sep 2018, 13:07

What all this pressure does is result in the security staff becoming over cautious to avoid the consequences of missing anything. It's a high pressure job, often working long 12 hour shifts, so please make some allowance next time you are there.

Surely the same applies to all other airports ? The main difference at MAN, as has been widely reported, is that when these ridiculous queues appear, it is not the passengers fault or the security staff fault but the fact that 4 or less security lanes are open out of 11 (T3).

I see Aug pax figures have flat lined and I expect this to continue or decline over the next 12 months as people who can make a choice, will do so after this years poor performance / experience.

LAX_LHR

13th Sep 2018, 13:26

The figures have flat lined due to August being the highest proportion of leisure travellers and with that, the loss of 9 based Monarch aircraft is at its peak. the individual boycotts are likely to account for 0.00001% of the loss, no matter how Romaric it would be to think they are the main reason for the dip in passenger figures.

once October hits and the Monarch losses are stripped out, then the true picture will be known if people are avoiding the airport and then we can made valid assessments. Given Easyjet are adding 5 aircraft, Jet2/TUI/MT 2 more each, 2 more BA weekenders, possibly 3 more Ryanair as well as the much lauded Jet Airways and Ethipioan flights, it see,s people still using MAN inthe droves, so, mass boycotts remain an individual case. These airlines work off forecasts and to add all this capacity, the forecasts clearly remain positive rather than negative.

(ps this May seem like post blindly defending MAN, end of the day some days have been s**t and people have the right to make a choice, but I’m sure people can agree balance can come from both sides)

Navpi

13th Sep 2018, 18:12

I suspect those who have had a decent holiday based on price, flight, hotel , food, climate will consider their options in 2019 and suggest that whilst the airport experience was shocking the rest of the holiday was great and when they consider their options in 2019 will confirm THAT holiday package is ONLY available from Manchester, and whilst avoidable delays should be avoided will they seriously look at the nearest competitors Birmingham Liverpool and Leeds ?
I doubt it. By way of example the Birmingham/long haul westbound offering has evaporated.

Rightly or wrongly the price conscious travelling public will look at cost and opportunities and that will be Manchester.

It is up to the landlords of the airport who are running the show as they pass through to get a grip.

As with most areas of complaint a good dollop of mischievous social media coverage usually gets someones attention although granted the parishioners in Olympic House all appear to be suffering a hearing impediment !

Thank God the "AIRPORT SPOKESMAN" isn't deaf. Ive never known someone so much in demand in fact I'm beginning to wonder if MAG have any senior managers such is their reticence to appear in front of camera.

compton3bravo

17th Sep 2018, 06:56

SWBKCB

17th Sep 2018, 07:10

DomyDom

17th Sep 2018, 10:08

Just watched the head of MAG (Manchester Airports Group) talking about Brexit on BBC Breakfast saying that it will be a seamless transition through his airport's as it is now after when we leave. As somebody said in the intro of The Battle of Britain film 'whose he trying to kid'!
It all depends on what is agreed regarding Freedom of Movement as part of the Brexit negotiations. I suspect we will end up with a variation of the Norway model. In which case FoM will be preserved with the UK having no say in the EU and accepting all rules & regs and still paying in. I think most UK airlines will become majoity owned by EU countries to preserve EU landing rights. In the absence of any concrete ideas for delivering a good deal for the UK from hard Brexiters I think that will be it's legacy. Such is the Brexit phenomena but at least seemless travel should continue.

SWBKCB

17th Sep 2018, 10:24

I think most UK airlines will become majoity owned by EU countries to preserve EU landing rights.

In which case they won't be UK airlines.

Navpi

17th Sep 2018, 10:45

Quote

"....seamless as it is now" ? 😁

DomyDom

17th Sep 2018, 11:18

In which case they won't be UK airlines.
Exactly SWBKCB, The movement of UK companies to the EU where they will subsequently pay tax, invest snd employ locals is one of the many contradictory aspects of Brexit. We will have Blue passports though even if they will be made in France.

ssflyer

17th Sep 2018, 16:40

FR1263 MAN/IBZ (15.43) was at 25k over BHX when it returned to MAN landing at 17.19
Was it the "usual" Ibiza problems or technical?
SS

Suzeman

17th Sep 2018, 19:40

FR1263 MAN/IBZ (15.43) was at 25k over BHX when it returned to MAN landing at 17.19
Was it the "usual" Ibiza problems or technical?
SS
What is /are the "usual" Ibiza problems please?

roverman

17th Sep 2018, 22:07

Direct link with China has given boost to Cumbria - Direct flights from Manchester have benefited firms in the county (http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/business/Direct-link-with-China-has-given-boost-to-Cumbria-8691992d-837a-4e95-b206-105af95f09a8-ds)

Hmm. "Grown faster than any other UK-China route ..etc" Really? It is back to 4 per week this summer compared to daily last year, albeit with the larger A330-300. And it drops back to 3 per week for winter again. Doing OK, I would say, but not spectacular. And MAN-CAN slots have been withdrawn again. We need one of the networked alliance carriers on MAN-China if the undoubted potential of this market is to be fully realized.

MANFOD

18th Sep 2018, 08:41

Hmm. "Grown faster than any other UK-China route ..etc" Really? It is back to 4 per week this summer compared to daily last year, albeit with the larger A330-300. And it drops back to 3 per week for winter again. Doing OK, I would say, but not spectacular. And MAN-CAN slots have been withdrawn again. We need one of the networked alliance carriers on MAN-China if the undoubted potential of this market is to be fully realized.

Have to say I agree with that assessment.
In July 2016 (the first full month of the service I believe) the CAA stats showed a pax figure of 9,232 with an A333 at 4 x weekly. (292 seats)
In July 2017 with daily flights but a smaller a/c (213 seats on a B788?), the increase was 16% to 10,779 pax
In July 2018 back to 4 x weekly, pax were 7,687, a drop of 29% on July'17 and 17% from July'16.

I made the average load 214 in July this year, compared to over 250 in July 2016. So loads are still reasonable.
July may only be 1 month but passenger figures have been down every month since September '17 except for May this year. Frequency over last winter was reduced to 3 x weekly but the that presumably reflected demand.

As roverman suggests, would we be better with a network alliance carrier?

The MAN-PEK service and the importance of China links got good coverage on the main BBC NW News bulletins yesterday but the reality is we still await PVG and CAN which we are told have significant potential.

By way of contrast, CX continues to do remarkably well and it would be interesting to know how many of their passengers are for or from mainland China.

inOban

18th Sep 2018, 08:41

What is /are the "usual" Ibiza problems please?

A disruptively drunk woman, according to the MEN.

Navpi

18th Sep 2018, 15:06

Hainan

I think Manchester has suffered as a result of the HU woes BUT fundamentally the offering via London is much more joined up and more in tune with proper marketing.

The airport COULD TAKE the lead in joined up thinking re
airport, retail, tourist attractions , my God there are enough of them in marketing, but sadly the motivation to take the lead is absolutey non existent.

Nor does anyone seemingly have the nous in e.g. Visit Manchester Visit Cheshire Visit Liverpool VisitTheLakeDistrict etc to guide our attractions to make the offer more welcoming.

Since HU started I have come across one attraction which offers Chinese signage, Mandarin leaflets etc.

Utterly pathetic.

it's doubtful most attractions even realise we have a Chinese service such is the apathy.

I suspect this opportunty will wither away unless a Northern agency takes the opportunity by the balls.

...but hey boys and girls keep polishing that TTG award.

Ex Cargo Clown

19th Sep 2018, 06:53

Don't forget the Aug/Sep far east figures will be slightly "skewed" due to the number of Asian students arriving.

FFMAN

19th Sep 2018, 07:51

If you heard that learning Mandarin is harder than German or French or Spanish, please don't believe it.

It isn't harder. It's just different.

Whilst I agree with the thrust of your post - I don't agree with the above. It Is harder to learn Mandarin than French or Spanish precisely because it is different.

I also agree with others here that have said that HU might not be the right carrier for the route. Having used it a few times at the beginning of the service - the first year and a bit - I have found that uncertainty about days of operation (and not daily) has got me using other alternatives these days.
One of the biggest downsides is that HU use the old terminal and you end up being parked in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the morning. Although this is acceptable for point to point, if, like me, you need to connect through T3, which is the new / main terminal, it is a looong bus ride. I concluded it was less hassle to arrive at T3 by plane even if it meant transferring at Helsinki or Frankfurt. The old T2 at Beijing is a bit of a scruffy old hole tbh and I have experienced some 'technical problems' whilst going through. Speaking to other British pax in the line waiting for ther C class check in to open - I know my views are not unique. In fact many were saying that they wouldn't use the service again. All of which is a shame since Hainan is actually a pretty good airline and stands up to comparisons with most western counterparts.

I think it does well with Chinese nationals and possibly those Brits of Chinese origin. My anecdotal observations: C class does ok loadwise with a predominance of non Chinese, down the back it is almost all people of Chinese appearance (tourists / students??)
Some of you may know that Andy Burnham (mayor) is in China this week with flights on his agenda.

LAX_LHR

20th Sep 2018, 08:43

Easyjet S19 doesn’t appear have to thrown out any surprises.

BCN goes daily from June, ATH from 4 to 5 weekly, LIS from 3 to 4 weekly, PRG from 6 to 7 weekly (PRG was 6 weekly this summer, then 9 weekly over winter so increase is based on S18 to S19).

One point to note is that SXF isn’t on sale for the Summer but I have heard that the route will operate to TXL instead, and thus will be announced as a ‘new route’ in November/December.

FAO seems to go from 4 weekly to 3 weekly and BFS seems to be just 2 daily most days, which is unlikely to stay that way.

given there will be 3 more aircraft to make 17 based, we can be sure there will be a lot of other changes to come.

DomyDom

20th Sep 2018, 20:53

LAX_LHR

20th Sep 2018, 20:55

Anna.aero and other news outlets picking up on that fact that MAN-CAN was ‘announced’ at world routes by the chairman of Guangzhou airport. Will be served by Hainan.

DomyDom

20th Sep 2018, 20:55

I have seen the attached shared on FB. Can anyone throw any light on this. Thanks.
https://www.facebook.com/665611933/posts/10156833568611934/

eye2eye5

20th Sep 2018, 21:03

If it's the baggage hurling rather than handling video, I saw it earlier and am aware of who filmed it. Disgraceful behaviour.

LAX_LHR

20th Sep 2018, 21:10

Given the social media storm this has created, if this guy still has a job I’d be very surprised.

MANworker

20th Sep 2018, 21:14

As someone who works for the same company, different department, I’m disgusted in the person doing that to people’s bags. From what I hear he’s been suspended pending investigation, but I doubt he will have a job

PAXboy

21st Sep 2018, 05:25

Ivan aromer

21st Sep 2018, 06:31

I've seen similar 'handling' at LTN. I don't think this is unusual. I have seen my bag thrown, rather than placed on the belt. What is strange is that these workers forget that the customer is looking out the window.
if you google "Dave Carroll." An Americam folk singer who had the misfortune to fly with United Airlines. The baggage handlers broke his guitar so he wrote a song "United breaks guitars" The vid went viral, its quite funny too! Cost United a packet.

PAXboy

21st Sep 2018, 07:13

Yes, know it well There are also reports and photographs of damaged wheel chairs. I can understand that bags might be chucked when handled behind the scenes. But to do it where can be filmed?

lplsprog

21st Sep 2018, 07:45

I saw something similar in Dublin whilst waiting for my flight. I just looked out of the window onto the apron and noticed the baggage handlers off loading a flight onto a flatbed truck and the cases were flung from the hold and bounced right down the flatbed of the truck. How something wasn't damaged I don't know.

Mr A Tis

21st Sep 2018, 08:32

This is only one video of many circulating social media of similar baggage “handling” at Manchester.
As usual, the airport will say nothing to do with us, it’s between the airport & handling agents.
Its like when the absurd security queues happen the airport say sorry it’s busy & everything is working - when you are stood looking at 7 closed security lanes.
when will this management take responsibility for the abysmal passenger experience endured during 2018?

Ringwayman

21st Sep 2018, 08:41

Seeing that the airport has already expressed its wish for that handler to be out of a job or sanctions may be placed against Swissport, I'd say they are taking this issue seriously

LAX_LHR

21st Sep 2018, 08:44

Actually airport management have stepped in with this issue. Andrew Cowan has released a statement saying they are working with swissport to sort this out and have said they will sanction swissport if no improvements are seen.

SWBKCB

21st Sep 2018, 09:32

Lead story on the MEN website - spurious fury from "airport bosses".

I'm just surprised that anybody is surprised at this. The way things are going, there'll be nobody left in the ground handling market.

MANFOD

21st Sep 2018, 10:38

Its like when the absurd security queues happen the airport say sorry it’s busy & everything is working - when you are stood looking at 7 closed security lanes.
when will this management take responsibility for the abysmal passenger experience endured during 2018?

Have to agree that some of the PR statements when things have gone wrong do not match the facts or are at best misleading.

Mr A Tis makes his points very strongly and I would suggest the 'abysmal experience' certainly applies to some passengers but by no means all. One comment that has been made by some posters which I think is very valid is that the airport gives the impression of being reactive rather than pro-active. With all the negative publicity this year, the old adage "prevention is better than a cure" holds true. Unfortunately, it is not always apparent that a "cure" has been applied and a problem resolved.

SWBKCB

21st Sep 2018, 11:19

The good news is...

"Luggage-gate" is no longer the leading story on the MEN website. :ok:

The bad news is...

Judge dubs Manchester Airport drop-off fees 'absolute disgrace' during road rage row sentencing (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/judge-dubs-manchester-airport-drop-15182429) :eek:

FFMAN

21st Sep 2018, 11:25

Although he could have said.....
Judge dubs Manchester Airport 'absolute disgrace' during road rage row sentencing (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/judge-dubs-manchester-airport-drop-15182429)
...and still been speaking on behalf of many

LAX_LHR

21st Sep 2018, 11:33

While I am generally against the drop off fees, nearly killing someone for the sake of trying to avoid a £3 fee is disgusting. It’s £3 for Christ’s sake. While the fee is a pain, it’s advertised everywhere so if you enter the area just pay the fee, go home, have a moan and move on. Mowing someone down because they are trying to stop you leaving without paying is stupidness at it’s highest level.

That said, the airport road layout of late has caused a ‘wacky races’ scenario. People swerving in and out of lanes. Dropping off on roundabouts, blocking exits to drop off and now mowing people down just to avoid the fee. It’s bloody ridiculous.

outwood Lane is a particular pain in the ass at the moment. If it’s not people in the wrong lane anyway, who then try and run you off the road just to get in the right lane, it’s the pained markings which tell you the station and meet&greet are straight ahead, when in fact you turn left.

its gone bloody nuts.

FFMAN

21st Sep 2018, 13:26

...and it's all of their own making.
Naturally, as usual, they will blame everyone else: the service providers, the weather, the passengers etc ad nauseum

The whole place needs sorting out from top to bottom starting with the management team

ZOOKER

21st Sep 2018, 13:48

At The Trafford Centre, Handforth Dean, Cheadle Royal and almost all the public car-parks in Northwich, you can park for several hours, totally free-of-charge. All day in the case of the first example. Yet dare to turn up in a motor vehicle at Manchester Airport for 5 minutes and you incur a fine or tax imposed by the council graspers who run what is sadly becoming a Third World show. This fine is levied on the customer to cover the ineptitude of the airport's planning department, and trumpeted as an attempt to relieve the congestion that they themselves have created.

Manezytom

21st Sep 2018, 13:50

To be honest I pass through the airport twice a week, and it’s disgusting. Poorly trainees staff, ridiculously bad customer service staff who think they’re gods gift no actual service involved in their job. As for the road rage incident I can see why the guy blew his lid, these so called parking Marshall’s speak to you like you are some sort of idiot, they have absolutely no tact and never have done. They speak to airport workers even worse ! To be fair I have been close to lampIng one of these a**hol**. If they spoke to people properly and stop thinking they are some sort of god then they wouldn’t face so much abuse. And as for charging it has made no difference to arriving at the airport it’s still a complete shambles. The whole airport is no wonder no new airlines want to open ops here because it’s absolutely shi*e apologies for the language but what used to be a good airport has now become a joke and is only used by people because of convenience.

SWBKCB

21st Sep 2018, 14:18

MAN is hardly unique in having drop off charges, and while people think they are there to just to generate revenue the real reason is that people don't understand the term "drop off" or "pick up" and take the p*ss by hanging around for hours (probably so they can nip off and pay more for coffee...) and spoil it for everybody else (as usual)

Everybody else is having a rant - don't see why I shouldn't :ok:

LAX_LHR

21st Sep 2018, 14:21

While the drop off charges are clearly a bone of contention (and as said I’m not a fan myself), many airports also charge for the same concept, and even the huge hub that is Amsterdam is considering applying them.

what is appalling that many, including a judge, are almost justifying this man’s actions because of this charge. It’s £3. Say again £3. The Marshall was nearly killed for the sake of £3. Whatever you think of the charge, a Marshall is someone’s wife, son, husband, daughter, dad, mum etc. The fact you can get so irate over £3 leads more questions as to whether you should be on the road. Next time I get a parking fine, should I mow down the warden as it’s their fault there were parking restrictions? Next time someone someone gets a speeding ticket, should the officer be lamped for enforcing the law? Reality is, this is nothing to do with drop off fees, this is about someone’s who clearly has anger issues and a danger to the roads. And what’s better, he is a TEACHER, thus has the chance to mould the younger generation into his ways too. Disgusting. I don’t care what people think of the fees, this is purely and simply disgusting behaviour by the driver.

the headline here is that a Marshall was actually run over, and done so over several hundred metres. And most people are here saying ‘well, own fault for having a £3 drop off fee’. Would love to see your reaction if that was your loved one being mowed down for doing their job.

good on the airport for seeking an appeal to his sentence, as I’m sure anybody would want the same support from their employer if this happened to them.

also ‘obvious why no new airlines are coming to MAN’, clearly not the case, at all.

FFMAN

21st Sep 2018, 14:21

In terms of the road rage insident, I too sympathize with the perpetrator. I'm sure he's a perfectly normal sane, rational human being in the real world. The trouble is Manchester Airport is not the real world - it turns normal, sane, rational people into stressed out monsters. capable of violence. Everybody has a breaking point.
The only pressure that will count in the long run is pressure from airlines and concessionaires. As far as MAN is concerned the passengers are below sh!te and are there to be fleeced, shouted at, abused, have snide remarks made at them and basically treated as a commodity.
In fact I would say in mitigation - 'extreme provocation' by the airport management

SWBKCB

21st Sep 2018, 14:44

LAX_LHR

21st Sep 2018, 15:02

Also says a lot that clearly some of you are willing to come to the airport and extoll violence against airport staff, and then wonder why they are miserable. If I had to deal with some people like I’ve seen commenting about this, I’d be miserable and rude in return too.

While clearly some people aren’t designed for customer service (and they need to be dealt with individually) Maybe look at yourself. Given some are insinuating they would do the same as this man and have sympathy, tells me the problem is them, and their anger issues rather than the staff. And for that, I’ve put some people on ignore as you simply cannot reason with people who advocate and justify violence just because of, in the grand scheme of things, small issues.

i honestly didn’t think this thread could sink any lower, clearly I was wrong. This is no longer a news and rumour thread, it’s a long, running joke where people get wound up and rant over pointless sh*t.

spannersatcx

21st Sep 2018, 15:11

Paint double red lines, install ANPR and a big sign saying an illegal parking/pick up/drop offs will incur an automatic £60 fine, there you've been told!

MANFOD

21st Sep 2018, 15:23

I don't see what the judge thinks about drop-off charges is relevant. He's there to apply the law, not to give personal opinions, and this driver got off very lightly in my view. But I'm shocked that some appear to be empathising with this bloke for allegedly being provoked. A few strong words to express your displeasure maybe but to continue driving with a man on the car bonnet for several hundred yards? Come on!

In this instance, the drop-off charges - whether or not justified - were fairly well trailed in the media. Whether they are clearly shown as you enter the drop-off zone, I don't know.

This is not to say that the system as it is being applied is OK. If there are issues with pay machines, drivers being made to pay more than the £3 because of poor lane lay-out and congestion, then MAN needs to get it sorted. And drivers will not use the free bus system if there is a risk of a long wait because buses are full.

FFMAN

21st Sep 2018, 16:28

Ignore if you wish LAX - that's your choice but it won't change the underlying problem.
The problem is that, despite well documented problems like this throughout recent times, the airport does the same as you, it 'puts people on ignore', It's much easier than having to actually deal with the problems that have racked up over time. Your cxomment 'maybe look at yourself' is also emblematic of MAN's attitude - it's the customer's fault (or somebody else's - not ours / never our fault).

The point I am making is that as aviation continues its race to the bottom of the pit, there are consequences and one of those consequences is that people will get pushed beyond their breaking points so don't be surprised at that. I'm not condoning it I'm just saying I can understand why it happens and will happen again until the management stops treating passengers as the enemy.
The once tolerable airport experience is becoming increasingly intolerable.

easyflyer83

21st Sep 2018, 17:47

I too feel compelled to express my surprise (putting it lightly) of the judges comments and the empathy shown towards the perpetrator. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to risk someones life. Had this been some boy racer on a public road there would have been an outcry. The fact is, you may or may not like the drop off charge but it is Manchester Airport's prerogative to impose it. If you don't like it then you can express that through a complaint or by using an airport that doesn't have a drop off fee. The Marshaller has a job to do and in no way, shape or form should he have to come to work fearing that he may be assaulted, injured or even killed...... the latter could have been a distinct outcome. To condone that behaviour is a sad inditement on todays society.

Neither should that Marshaller face such repercussions because of the wider issues that the airport suffers from. And yes, there are fundamental issues affecting the airport, there are no arguments from me. I am certainly no apologist but I am a stickler for balance and I have used MAN countless times and had nothing but a indifferent to good experience. I've had one terrible experience with security staff that clearly embarrassed her colleagues in T3 but other than that my experiences with security personnel has been fine. Sure, you have some shouting (may appear as barking) of instructions by they have to get the message across to many people. You get that in the US to a far worse extent in my opinion.

MAN does however have a significant problem at various times of the day in processing passengers and we have seen some intolerable experiences, particularly at first wave!

The T1 gate experiences are horrible but the departure lounge is reasonably nice and for many of the clientele (bucket and spaders) they really like the retail experience, it's part of the holiday experience.

MAN's PR team could be a little more contrite rather than just blaming other factors. Explain the factors by all means but apologise more for it. But, at the same time...... when there are failings at, for example, Swissport they should highlight where the failure lies. That is only right.

Personal opinion on drop off fee, there is a free option. If you don't want to use it then pay £3. Many of MAN users don't use the airport on a regular basis. Just pay it rather than standing on traffic islands. It's 3 quid......however much you dislike it.
Fact is, we all fly much cheaper than we used to (and more often as a consequence) and something has to give. Anecdotally, you come across people who feel they have been robbed by paying £150 return to Alicante! It costs me £5.50 off peak to travel 7 miles into Central Manchester!

I most certainly don't want to appear an apologist of the airport, there are certainly problems but I do think some do in fact lay it on thick when there are indeed countless journeys that are nothing but passable to good. Like I say...... i'm a stickler for balance.

But again, regardless of the problems the airport has, no one has the right to risk the life of others! If the consensus is that they do.....i think i might just give up now.

Flightrider

21st Sep 2018, 17:55

I'm not the judge and I don't condone the actions. But the point in there is that the Manchester Airport policy is enough to drive even a mild-mannered individual to road rage. Having experienced Manchester several times this summer, the car hire process is now a nightmare; the taxi pick-up point for arriving customers at T3 is a nightmare; security at T3 is amongst the worst of any UK airport rivalled only by EMA and STN (who runs those?) and the airside departures area in T3 is overcrowded, dirty and awful. No-one can sanction this bloke's actions. But you can understand them, and this should act as a further wake-up call to MAG management to take a long, hard look at what they are doing - or not doing. A change of management and mentality is urgently required for the sanity of all of their customers.

Manezytom

21st Sep 2018, 18:06

I don’t agree with the mans actions, driving with someone on your bonnet is a complete no go and shouldn’t have happened. But why would a person risk their life to stop an road rage idiot I certainly wouldn’t. Unfortunately there is a Huge staff pax bully culture. And from arriving from the parking Marshall’s to handling agents, customer services and security goad pax and push and push them and then we get them onboard kicking off. All this comes down to is the shocking management of this airport. I fly from a range of European airports weekly and I’ve never seen such poor services. You might only see it as £3 but then you have fast track etc all squeezing you for every penny without any improvement. Yesterday at 7pm outside T3 traffic was horrific backing all the way up to styal road ! And then you’re pay in for problems they’ve caused. Not to mention parking pax in staff car parks ! Absolute joke. Judging by the replies most people aren’t flying through the airport as a passenger very often. Because trust me twice a week as a passenger you begin to wonder why anybody or any airline is flying from here.

easyflyer83

21st Sep 2018, 18:20

Flightrider.... no, no, no. You cannot understand his actions. His actions were not rational. Are you saying that it’s ok to partake in road rage? Because that’s what this was. Are you really saying that if you enrage a fellow motorist (and we’ve all done that unintentionally) then they have the right to get out and lamp you one?

Just 24 hours ago we were all enraged at the baggage handling video and rightly so. It was appalling! But out of the two incidents there is one that is ten times as bad as the other..... and it’s not the one involving bags. Bags, man’s life, bags??? Yet some of you are effectively saying the bag incident was worse.

ManezyTom I use the airport mainly with work but I also use it quite a bit in my own time. I’m blessed with holidays and have travel vlog.... but then you already know that. ;-)

TURIN

21st Sep 2018, 18:23

easyflyer83

21st Sep 2018, 18:27

LAX_LHR

21st Sep 2018, 18:43

I'm going to have to disagree with you Lax.
He didn't nearly kill someone. The report clearly states that.
I have every bit of sympathy with the driver. Some of the officials at MAN have a superiority complex. They do not talk to people, they bark. it winds peope up, its not necessary.

Turin,

I’m not sure how else you could interpret ‘driving several hundred metres’ with someone on the bonnet. He was only stopped on the M56 by the police, this man clearly had a fit of rage and was capable of anything. Interesting that I’ve seen several comments about the man behind the wheel, stating ‘based on my dealings with him, I’m not surprised’.

what ever you think about the airport, these actions are completely unjustifiable. Completely and totally. Would love To see how sympathetic some of you would be if it was you clinging to the bonnet of a car for dear life for merely enforcing a work place rule. Can all act better in hindsight, can’t we?

for this reason to, I’m coming off this forum now. Personal attacks are one thing, moaning about an airport experience is also fine, although annoying, but, to pretty much justify what this driver has done for the sake of a £3 drop off charge is unpalatable and not a community I want to be part of. To see what this guy has done and almost come off as the victim is just bizarre and shows how low this forum has become. Rumours and news? Nah, moaning and justifying a near case of manslaughter to boost an anti-airport agenda, enjoy.

SWBKCB

21st Sep 2018, 18:43

that people will get pushed beyond their breaking points

the Manchester Airport policy is enough to drive even a mild-mannered individual to road rage.

Reading the report of the case, he knew before he set off about the drop off charge, knew it was time limited, saw an open gate, took a chance and when he was blocked drove off with somebody on his bonnet for several hundred yards - think about that, think about how long it takes to drive a car several hundred yards - and then when stopped by the police just before he reached the motorway (well done to them, btw) then tried to reverse to try and get away.

So no excuses, no martyr to sub-human airport treatment just another chancer who got caught.

Flightrider

21st Sep 2018, 19:52

I said earlier that the actions could not be condoned or supported. They cannot and absolutely not. It’s not acceptable. But can you understand how this happened? The judge ostensibly could.

If MAG management cannot then the problem runs very deep in Manchester Airport. Time for a change of management based on all of the evidence. The airport has become so utterly offensive to use that those with no choice are being driven (no pun intended) to quite uncharacteristic levels of angst about the way they are being treated. I count myself as one very unhappy user of the airport but (hopefully) able to control my output.

Laxlhr, all forums users would be better served if you relayed this to your management rather than absolving yourself from the discussion. I don’t know who you are but you’ve also no idea who I am. Who knows, we may take a different view of each other if we did. We may each be in positions of influence to change things for the good. The situation at MAN is, in my view, sufficiently bad as to warrant some consideration.

doublesix

21st Sep 2018, 20:55

The facts are that the parking charges were published months before implementation. Anyone arriving at the airport and wanting to drop of at a particular terminal see IF THEY OPEN THEIR EYES , the charges before they enter the drop off point. As someone who drives daily at the airport I can say the charges have reduced congestion and have made my life easier. Even so I still see on a daily basis people who still stop in the middle of the road to drop people/pick up without any regard to others. Your inconsideration has led to where we are today.

golf yankee one one

21st Sep 2018, 21:58

The implication from a number of recent posters is that the judge condoned or let off lightly the car driver because of his (the judge's) opinion about drop off charges.
In fact the car driver was found guilty, does now have a criminal record and was sentenced to a suspended six month prison sentence - a fairly severe penalty for a (assumed) first time offender. There must be a significant possibility that he will lose his job as a teacher.
The judge's other comments should be seen against this background.

TURIN

21st Sep 2018, 22:21

Well that escalated quickly.
I was disagreeing with the point about nearly killing someone. The report states that was not the case. I made no personal attacks or condoned the actions of the driver but I can understand him losing it. I have experienced some of Manchester's staff and diplomacy and tact is not a stong point. There is no need for any of this.

easyflyer83

21st Sep 2018, 23:17

Why are we also assuming the marshaller was being rude or aggressive?
If someone has had bad experiences with staff that is fine but there is nothing to say that this marshaller was anything but professional. I don’t know.... I wasn’t there. I’m sure none of you guys were there either. So why are we assuming that he contributed to himself being put in danger by a guy who thought it was acceptable to drive off with a person on his car bonnet??

MANFOD

22nd Sep 2018, 08:43

no wonder no new airlines want to open ops here because it’s absolutely shi*e apologies for the language but what used to be a good airport has now become a joke and is only used by people because of convenience.

It's one thing to criticise the airport for its failings and inefficiencies - with some justification - but it strikes me the aviation business development section has been doing rather well. It may have escaped your attention even as a twice weekly user of the airport that Jet Airways and Ethiopian are soon starting flights from MAN with expectations there will be a route to Guangzhou in the not too distant future. Then there are other airlines increasing the number of aircraft based at MAN this winter and next summer. Of course, increasing numbers of passengers means more challenges for management. If that happens, time will tell how they deal with it, given that full completion of the TP is still 6 years away.

Mr A Tis

22nd Sep 2018, 10:45

Bet people can't wait for Jet Airways to start :https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/passengers-on-flight-left-bleeding-out-of-ears-and-noses-after-crew-forgot-to-set-air-pressure/

Arriving into T1 last night ,bussed from remote you are greeted with non working escalator up to passport control. Later you will find all walkways in the skylink turned off - only the blue rain water buckets are "operational".
Sure these are not critical things- but it shows an airport that has lost it's care- lost it's Northern Pride. Things like this are fixable now, like the constant dirty toilets, broken cubicle locks, broken cubicle coat hooks. Baggage gate is another well publicised issue gone viral worldwide,and the security fiasco that produces good service one day & chaos the next despite having the data available to match supply and demand.
The drop off charge hasn't really resolved anything and the free drop system is under resorced.All these are in the airport gift to fix now- not in TP +6 years. Either the management is in denial or just doesn't care - the customer experience appears very very low down the agenda with the jam tomorrow statement being the answer to everything.
Many comments always relate to the holidaymaker and how they will soon forget their once a year experience etc etc. However, if you want to retain your CX, SIA, HU etc then you also need to cater for your premium pax or you will lose them. My colleague is now using LHR instead of MAN for his CX flights purely due to MAN experiences. My own last CX ticket cost me over £4.5K at those prices I don't expect special treatment- just that things work properly and passenger service levels are met.

easyflyer83

22nd Sep 2018, 11:18

But none of that is an excuse to go around the airport campus with a member of staff on your bonnet simply because it pees you off.

To your comment though, for every passenger who votes with their feet and goes to LHR, there are many more for whom going to London sticks in their throat and will not entertain the idea.

Incidentally, I have no problem with using LHR, transit or otherwise, and please don’t see this a supporting MAN’s failings but like I said a few posts ago, some seem to be ‘laying it on thick’. Add balance to your arguments.

The airlines you cite CX (et-al) will continue to flourish. The likes of EK in particular, will fly into worse places around the world than MAN and geographically, MAN will always be very convenient.

MAN has issues but let’s not predict the end of the world.

The96er

22nd Sep 2018, 12:01

Maybe the drive for increased airport patronage through the low cost airline revolution is really starting to bite now. Yes, no doubt the wider economy is benefited, but the huge strain that is now put on the facilities and employees with very little extra income, if any at all to maintain upkeep and staffing levels is proving an impossible task. Something will have to give soon.

Mr A Tis

22nd Sep 2018, 12:22

easy flyer83 But none of that is an excuse to go around the airport campus with a member of staff on your bonnet simply because it pees you off.
Where have I suggested this is acceptable?
I have not commented on that incident in ANY way.

London sticks in their throat and will not entertain the idea. You are speaking from a Northern perspective- completely ignoring the international business passengers this place is supposed to encourage. My Colleague is Hong Kong based and thinks this place "stinks" The recent baggage incident has been widely reported in China & Hong Kong.

I think the general acceptance that things aren't good but hey ho other places are worse just about sums up Manchester - mediocrity at best with little aspiration of trying to be at least good if not the best. If you don't start with goals then you ain't going to get far.

I'd hardy say CX is flourishing as it chose to put in a Dublin service rather than up the MAN service which it easily could have done to consolidate, & Hanain isn't looking good either.

easyflyer83

22nd Sep 2018, 13:26

Some of your opinions lack context though.

1) The wider debate surrounded the car bonnet incident and whether MAN’s failures justified it. You weighed into that debate.

2) As appalling as the bagge incident is, these videos appear every so often. I can’t remember where the last place was where such behaviour was captured. It won’t affect passenger numbers.

3) CX -the fact they are going to DUB doesn’t necessarily reflect on MAN’s performance. It could well be a strategic decision or even that CX at MAN is performing well (which it is) but hasn’t yet proven a business case for further frequencies yet.

4) Hainan has more to do with its own issues than anything else I would say.

I just think some, at this stage at least, are exaggerating the affect of some of the problems that MAN faces.

The example of your colleague is totally anecdotal as is the people I come across from time to time who say “we usually like to fly from Liverpool” etc etc.

Mr A Tis

22nd Sep 2018, 16:04

easyflyer
You weighed into that debate.

NO I did NOT - show me !!

these videos appear every so often..let me think- oh yes the last one I saw was...Manchester a few weeks ago...

easyflyer83

22nd Sep 2018, 16:35

Bet people can't wait for Jet Airways to start :https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/passengers-on-flight-left-bleeding-out-of-ears-and-noses-after-crew-forgot-to-set-air-pressure/

Your response to someone arguing that MAN were still seeing development in it's aviation business despite it's problems. You then began to reel off your issues, most of which we already know and accept. I see that as you adding to the debate.

Anyway, I've watched from the sidelines recently and read some debate between those who recognise the issues at MAN and those who, for whatever reason seem to stick up for MAN regardless. That certainly isn't me. However, I had to speak up when several decided to think that a drop measly drop off fee, however un liked, was acceptable mitigation for a man to drive off with someone on his car bonnet.

Like I said before, add a little constraint and balance into your debates.

spannersatcx

22nd Sep 2018, 18:22

Starting at DUB has absolutely nothing to do with MAN, if anything it has taken away pax from LHR and possibly MAN, but as the flights are full I guess they haven't lost much !

Navpi

22nd Sep 2018, 20:18

ZOOKER

22nd Sep 2018, 20:38

No stress at John Lewis/Sainsbury's Navpi.......Drive in, park, do your shopping, drive out again. Perhaps Cowan and his mates should do a liaison visit to Cheadle Royal to learn how to 'embrace the customer'? Perhaps they haven't got the time? Too many other 'directorships' simultaneously on the go?

TURIN

23rd Sep 2018, 19:52

Suspended term for driving 100 yards with a man on the bonnet.. im speechless.

Yes it's annoying, Yes be angry, but come on.

I really get peeeed off with this utter crap about people using STRESS to justify their actions , complete and utter bollocksology.

May I politely suggest you do some reading on the subject of Human Factors. Especially in regard to personel who work in, around or amongst safety critical industry and situations.
Stress is not in itself a reason or a justification. Neither is it bollocksology (sic).

Navpi

23rd Sep 2018, 21:49

Skipness One Foxtrot

23rd Sep 2018, 23:09

I'd hardy say CX is flourishing as it chose to put in a Dublin service rather than up the MAN service which it easily could have done to consolidate, & Hanain isn't looking good either.
Singapore has never had more than one daily flight to Changi in 40 years I think?
The airlines who come in on long haul and sustain double daily in a few years tend to be two ME rivals, one of which is blockading the other at time of writing, and even Emirates is still one daily at NCL after all this time. Surely if Cathay need more capacity, the A350-1000 would be the first option rather than another flight?

CCGE29

24th Sep 2018, 00:56

I've never seen so much rubbish being posted on here. Firstly, I do understand the issues at MAN and have experienced them first hand (Admittedly I only depart Manchester twice a month).

Some of the inaccuracies posted on here-

"No new airlines want to start at MAN' - False. Jet Airways & Ethiopian are starting ops in the next few months.

'Cathay chose MAN over DUB' - Well we can't be sure on that. However, CX are increasing MAN from the A350-900 to the A350-1000 in December.

'No moving walkways working' - I feel that this is an exaggeration considering I arrived at MAN the other day and all were working (To my surprise). The escalator in arrivals is turned off with the justification being to slow the flow of passengers entering passport control. I do feel that this shows a real lack of investment in staffing by the Home Office. The E-Gates also reject a high number of passengers and are very slow in comparison to those in other countries (Did the Home Office purchase them or was it the airport?).

You'd have to be daft to consider Heathrow because Manchester takes an extra 15 minutes. Drive for 3+ hours to save 15 minutes. Logical. MAN will not be losing passenger numbers over this, people will always be tempted to go for the lowest fare, no matter which airport.

There is no doubt that MAN has some serious issues that need sorting. Have a reasonable debate, though please can we have facts rather than the inaccurate comments being posted.

Mr A Tis

24th Sep 2018, 08:18

CCGE29

''No moving walkways working' - I feel that this is an exaggeration considering I arrived at MAN the other day and all were working (To my surprise). The escalator in arrivals is turned off with the justification being to slow the flow of passengers entering passport control

Streuth - turn off escalator is queue management ? Even though we were the only arrival into T1?
All six walkways turned off from T1 to The station - So they worked for you one day, so for me it must be an exaggeration ?

Re CX, when you can use either airport without time penalty, LHR will always win. people will always be tempted to go for the lowest fare, no matter which airport. Yes many will- but that's the MAN mentality again always aiming at the bucket & Spade holiday trade- completely ignoring the business community that keeps the long haul viable.

Geez- I give up with you MAN appeasers.

ZOOKER

24th Sep 2018, 09:39

Going back several years, the Skyline travellators were often not working, usually after 1900 local. On several evenings they were all inoperable, the silence in the walkway was quite eerie.

easyflyer83

24th Sep 2018, 13:30

Mr A Tis

There are MAN appeasers out there (not necessarily you CCEG, Skipness etc) but there are many here who also 'lay it on thick'. No one has denied MAN has problems, it does. But they can be over exaggerated by some on here from time to time.

Mr A Tis

24th Sep 2018, 15:59

easyflyer83

Thank you- you make my point perfectly.

I'm sure we all at least agree these facts:

MAN is under resourced - understaffed
MAN made record profits and just paid out record dividends.

Job well done.

MKY661

26th Sep 2018, 08:35

EasyJet flights from MAN-TXL now bookable. Route starts on 31 March and replaces SXF.

jubilee

26th Sep 2018, 10:26

Going back to airport experience. Sunday 16th. September dropped off at the free parking point 8:10am. car park empty, bus came along within a few minutes. Passed through security in about 5 minutes, with a very pleasant lady near the head off the queue
instructing people what to do. Ryan air flight to Palma (10:10 dept.). Unfortunately group of girls on board who were sat in different areas who insisted on shouting to each other over the seats spoiled whatever enjoyment you may experience on a Ryan Air flight.

Palma Airport passport control. Manchester needs to go and look at this new set up, whole bank off eye scanners - must be about 30 - with one personal at the other side of the scanner to assist if needed,, incredible flow rate considering the amount of passengers
going through.

Fortunate to come back on BA, What a great experience after the outbound flight.

Jubilee

GrahamK

26th Sep 2018, 12:03

AF ops to MAN change to Joon from 31st March 2019

nigel osborne

26th Sep 2018, 18:06

AF ops to MAN change to Joon from 31st March 2019

Wow never saw that coming !

chinapattern

26th Sep 2018, 19:06

ZOOKER

26th Sep 2018, 19:49

"AF ops to MAN change to Joon from 31st June 2019".

Please could you explain what this actually means?

Rutan16

26th Sep 2018, 20:15

JOON is The AirFrance union breaker operation, However all flights retain the same AF flight code and tickets are still sold with full connectivity beyond Paris.

All flights should be with the A320 with the same CY174 as mainline indeed they are the same aircraft that have regularly operated as mainline until recently.

As Joon aren’t getting any 319 or 318 capacity may actually increase with this move.

Its rather like Iberia Express being a virtual airline within an airline.

Quite a lot of the AirFrance European secondary routes not in the hands of Hop are likely to be transferred in the medium term it’s part of the plan to make AirFrance more profitable.

Rutan16

26th Sep 2018, 20:20

I remember when BHX was rumoured to be switching to Transavia France it was argued MAN was far too important to the network to change from mainline! With EDI going to Hop! I wonder what will happen to BHX? Could very well follow with Joon in the not to distant future as more of the older A320s transfer .

Edinburgh gets both Hop branded aircraft and mainline but its remains sold as an AirFrance operation.

nigel osborne

26th Sep 2018, 21:08

I remember when BHX was rumoured to be switching to Transavia France it was argued MAN was far too important to the network to change from mainline! With EDI going to Hop! I wonder what will happen to BHX?

Possible BHX will go to Joon next too.Or more Fly Be ?

However AF don't have a low cost carrier such as Easy jet to compete against like Manchester has.

So also possible BHX will stay with mainline AF but only if it's profitable enough.

Scottie Dog

26th Sep 2018, 21:21

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 1)

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

One new destination was served in August 2018

Dallas/Fort Worth - 131 scheduled passengers. Not bad since we don't have a flight to Dallas, and definitely not one that carries scheduled passengers.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)

Amsterdam - 1,029,831 passengers
Dubai - 1,021,921 passengers

Two domestic statistics are currently missing from the CAA report for August.

Belfast City, Inverness, Jersey are yet to provide figures

Total passengers for these routes in 2017 were 39,498.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics

Data at present is not available
Monthly passengers -
Annual Total -
Moving Annual Total -

Monthly Movements -
Annual Movements -
Moving Annual Movements -

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 2)

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/420x516/screenshot_29__a0c480e98d0f05be886152560ef49d8f1755cbc3.png

CAA statistics for August 2018 are provisional

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 3)

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/437x517/screenshot_30__0cabceb3d1d409db39852d35c596ac1e977b9319.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 4)

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/360x591/screenshot_33__9724bb3dc8b306ab2aa801b39d0f0ce62513df73.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 5)

Comparison of top 25 destinations - August 2008 versus August 2018

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/421x517/screenshot_35__91c6af7d9493d698c84429ce40dac8c69cd5c46f.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 6)

Major changes to Domestic traffic

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/424x357/screenshot_36__86625430b982725c5d7381f5dbce034bb504ac57.png

Belfast City, Inverness, Jersey have not reported figures for August.

CAA statistics for August are provisional

Edited - due being brain-dead when making original post!

TURIN

26th Sep 2018, 21:30

TURIN

So you are honestly saying because of so called " human factors" it's acceptable to drive 100 yards with a man on a bonnet simply because the driver got annoyed about some charges ?

Well sorry, it isnt. I would describe anybody who supports such action as mentally ill.

We are going to hell in a hand cart.

And it is bollocksology!

Well its good to see that you have come to the subject with an open mind. :bored:
There is nothing 'so called' about human factors. It is a well known science which airlines and other industries spend a fortune on to try and mitigate the effects. Look at any major accident, whether it be aviation, shipping or construction.

I did not say it is or was acceptable to drive a hundred yards with someone on your bonnet. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Where you go and the mode of transport you choose is your affair, I however, will be off to enjoy a bright future, preferably in something black, shiney and comfortable.

MAJP

27th Sep 2018, 07:05

Ryanair to Marseille...in 2019 waiting for timetable

MKY661

27th Sep 2018, 08:47

EasyJet summer flights now on sale. GIB remains 3pw so it looks like EasyJet are not willing to increase the frequency as much as Monarch did?

boredintheairport

27th Sep 2018, 13:15

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 1)

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

One new destination was served in August 2018

Dallas/Fort Worth - 131 scheduled passengers. Not bad since we don't have a flight to Dallas, and definitely not one that carries scheduled passengers.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)

Amsterdam - 1,029,831 passengers
Dubai - 1,021,921 passengers

Two domestic statistics are currently missing from the CAA report for August.

Belfast City, Inverness, Jersey are yet to provide figures

Total passengers for these routes in 2017 were 39,498.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics

Data at present is not available
Monthly passengers -
Annual Total -
Moving Annual Total -

Monthly Movements -
Annual Movements -
Moving Annual Movements -

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 2)

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers

https://image.ibb.co/k65kK9/Screenshot_36.png

CAA statistics for August 2018 are provisional

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 3)

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.

https://image.ibb.co/nGhXz9/Screenshot_35.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 4)

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

https://image.ibb.co/kJQVmp/Screenshot_33.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 5)

Comparison of top 25 destinations - August 2008 versus August 2018

https://image.ibb.co/bPhAmp/Screenshot_29.png

CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - August 2018 (Part 6)

Major changes to Domestic traffic

https://image.ibb.co/mQnze9/Screenshot_30.png

Belfast City, Inverness, Jersey have not reported figures for August.

CAA statistics for August are provisional
Enormously informative as ever. Small point, I think some of your labels may be the wrong way round - part 6 says major changes to domestic traffic, but lists a lot of international destinations. Is that supposed to label something else?
Actually looking back the labels for parts 2 and 3 look a bit funny as well. Part 3 talks about percentage change in the table and then doesn't report percentages. I believe gremlins may be in the works.

chaps1954

27th Sep 2018, 14:05

Joon look remarkbly similar to Lufthansa new scheme except bigger titles

Scottie Dog

27th Sep 2018, 16:44

Enormously informative as ever. Small point, I think some of your labels may be the wrong way round - part 6 says major changes to domestic traffic, but lists a lot of international destinations. Is that supposed to label something else?
Actually looking back the labels for parts 2 and 3 look a bit funny as well. Part 3 talks about percentage change in the table and then doesn't report percentages. I believe gremlins may be in the works.

Thank you @boredintheairport, I obviously was rushing things last night and failed to double check the details.

mariofly12

27th Sep 2018, 19:38

New FR routes for S19 out of MAN, apart from MRS, include Bordeaux,Marrakesh, Thessaloniki, Gotheburg and Nantes

Also Easyjet increases MAN-ATH to 5w in July and daily in August

LFC22

27th Sep 2018, 20:58

https://twitter.com/EGCCInsider/status/1045271505939181569?s=19

New airbridges for T2

Mr A Tis

27th Sep 2018, 23:21

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-baggage-damage-arrivals-15210358

More baggage woes for the PR Dept.

MANFOD

28th Sep 2018, 07:59

Mr A Tis, in your keenness to display more negativity, I hope you managed to read the last sentence of the article:
"A second video published this week shows baggage handlers taking extra care in handling passengers' luggage".

The situation reported can occur when bags are delivered very quickly (and yes it can happen), and/or there are delays at Border Control (that certainly happens at times), so that cases arrive before passengers. However, whereas airport staff are often on hand to manage queues at departures, my own experience is that there is usually no obvious sign of supervisory staff in arrivals. Perhaps someone can provide better information, but It's not readily apparent what coordination there is when delays occur at Border Control in terms of the delivery of bags - for example, are there enough carousels to enable a late switching if there is a build up on a particular carousel?

DomyDom

28th Sep 2018, 09:29

New FR routes for S19 out of MAN, apart from MRS, include Bordeaux,Marrakesh, Thessaloniki, Gotheburg and Nantes

Also Easyjet increases MAN-ATH to 5w in July and daily in August

Great to see FR and EZY growth is continuing
at MAN with plenty of interesting new routes and capacity increases. We must be the biggest hubs now outside of STN (for FR) and LGW (for EZY) if I'm not mistaken?

ZOOKER

28th Sep 2018, 10:16

I would expect baggage handlers to take "extra care" at all times, along with everyone else who works in a safety-critical, customer-focussed enviornment such as aviation.

DomyDom, excellent news, more congestion and chaos on the horizon. EGCC seems an appropriate code for the place at present, doesn't it?

MANFOD

28th Sep 2018, 10:52

To put things in perspective, those 6 new routes add up to 12 additional departures a week, although 5 of those are on a Sunday. Also, most are with away based a/c or late departures so not adding to congestion with the early wave of departures. I understand there will be a second daily Belfast flight but haven't checked the timings.

ZOOKER

28th Sep 2018, 12:07

The congestion will come later MANFOD, and will be guaranteed. Over on the infrastructure pages, 'Wing Tips' tells us The Hut Group plans to build to office blocks on the north side of Ringway Road West, with space for 10,000 workers, In addition, there will be 2 other six-story office buildings, with a total of 184,000 square feet of floor space. At a guess all 3 buildings between them could generate up to 5,000 extra vehicles requiring access to the site......They'll need a 'relief road' for the 'relief road.

MANFOD

28th Sep 2018, 12:47

Ah, ZOOKER, that's a different but very valid point. Personally, I'm pleased that at last there is more positive news publicly about Airport City developments, but I agree they will throw up challenges for road traffic although I've no idea about the number of extra vehicles you mention.

Mr A Tis

29th Sep 2018, 13:44

More PR woes...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/chaos-manchester-airport-drop-zone-15216063

planedrive

29th Sep 2018, 16:03

Expect new routes for EZY to be announced soon, at least 3more a/c to come for next summer.

spannersatcx

29th Sep 2018, 18:28

More PR woes...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/chaos-manchester-airport-drop-zone-15216063

Footage taken by a driver - The driver, who wishes to remain anonymous, probably a good idea as it's against the law to operate a phone whilst in charge of a vehicle!

paully

29th Sep 2018, 18:44

, probably a good idea as it's against the law to operate a phone whilst in charge of a vehicle!

Yes but they werent in motion at the time..in fact far from it by all accounts

ZULUBOY

29th Sep 2018, 20:20

Yes but they werent in motion at the time..in fact far from it by all accounts
Time for you to brush up on your knowledge of mobile phone laws

MANworker

29th Sep 2018, 23:25

Just a quick point, just landed back in tonight at 2115, 30 mins ahead of schedule, straight through border force collected luggage and was on the m56 within 25 mins, including a 10 min wait for the bus to the car park, not saying that MAN doesn’t have some fundamental issues cos it clearly does have them, just that certain media outlets seem to want to make their local airport look as poor as it possibly can.

ZOOKER

30th Sep 2018, 09:58

chaps1954

30th Sep 2018, 10:49

Still plenty of arrivals just few departures Zooker

MANworker

30th Sep 2018, 12:45

Well done MANworker. Saturday afternoons and evenings are traditionally the quietest times of the week. Runway 05R/23L closes at 4pm, due to the fall-off in traffic, so hopefully one would expect nothing less.
Yet if you listen to the MEN you wouldn’t expect anything other than broken baggage, 2 hour delays in border force and a 4 hour wait in the arrivals hall for the fore mentioned baggage. Just thought I’d make the point that it’s not all bad like some people and outlets try to make out...

ZOOKER

30th Sep 2018, 20:31

But, if A-CDM is working, you would expect the level of customer-service you experienced to be there at all times MANworker. It obviously isn't.

Suzeman

30th Sep 2018, 21:36

But, if A-CDM is working, you would expect the level of customer-service you experienced to be there at all times MANworker. It obviously isn't.

I thought MAN were yet to implement CDM?

MANFOD

30th Sep 2018, 22:10

If this is what you are talking about, it was expected to be introduced in 2013.

https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/aviation-professionals/collaborative-decision-making/

MANworker

1st Oct 2018, 08:19

Suzeman

1st Oct 2018, 10:58

If this is what you are talking about, it was expected to be introduced in 2013.

https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/aviation-professionals/collaborative-decision-making/

That's it - thank you

And on the Eurocontrol website, it currently shows those airports that have implemented A-CDM

A-CDM is fully implemented in 28 airports across Europe, including: Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin Schönefeld (http://cdm.berlin-airport.de/de/cdm-start/), Brussels, Copenhagen (https://www.cph.dk/en/cph-business/aviation/operations/a-cdm/), Düsseldorf, Frankfurt (http://www.cdm.frankfurt-airport.com/), Geneva, Hamburg, Helsinki (http://archive.finavia.fi/cdm), London Gatwick (http://www.gatwickairport.com/business-community/airlines-business/business/a-cdm/) (*DPI message exchange between Gatwick Airport and NMOC is temporarily suspended), London Heathrow, Lyon-Saint Exupéry, Madrid, Milan Malpensa (http://www.milanomalpensa-airport.com/en/airport/a-cdm-procedure), Milan Linate (http://www.milanolinate-airport.com/en/airport/a-cdm-procedure), Munich (https://www.munich-airport.de/en/micro/airport_cdm/40beteilflughaf/muc/index.jsp), Naples, Paris CDG (https://www.cdmparis.net/Pages/PARIS-CHARLES%20DE%20GAULLE.aspx), Paris Orly (https://www.cdmparis.net/Pages/PARIS-ORLY.aspx), Oslo (https://ekstranett-beta.avinor.no/en/oslo-airport/flyplassinformasjon/a-cdm/a-cdm-prosjektet), Palma de Mallorca (http://www.mallorcair.es/a-cdm-lepa-procedure), Prague (http://www.prg.aero/cs/business-sekce/cdm/), Rome Fiumicino (https://www.airport-fco.com/), Stockholm Arlanda, Stuttgart (http://www.stuttgart-airport.com/business-to-business/airport-cdm/summary/), Venice (http://my.veniceairport.it/airportcdm.aspx), Zurich (https://www.zurich-airport.com/business-and-partners/flight-operations/a-cdm-en).

https://www.eurocontrol.int/node/10666/index.php

So only 5 years late so far at MAN...I wonder why?

Suzeman

1st Oct 2018, 15:47

They currently have LCDM, yet to implement ACDM, but if the resources aren’t there you can have all the technology in the world to tell you exactly what time every flight is arriving but it won’t find you those extra staff needed.

Thanks.
LCDM? Is that Local Collaborative Decision Making?
And could you explain how this works at MAN please? Bit out of the loop nowadays.

I agree entirely that knowing a few hours in advance that there is going to be a surge in late arrivals for example can't just magic up resources nowadays but maybe it can avoid some issues that would otherwise make the situation worse.

Trouble is that most people nowadays expects to travel for next to nothing and still have a great service. However in order to do this all the parties involved have had to cut costs and resources to the bone, which is fine when it all goes right. But when it goes wrong - as it often does, always has and always will - then there is no contingency and things rapidly descend into chaos. And with social media this gets picked up quickly and is spread around the world in minutes.

Glad to be out of all this now.

roverman

1st Oct 2018, 17:32

Thanks.
LCDM? Is that Local Collaborative Decision Making?
And could you explain how this works at MAN please? Bit out of the loop nowadays.

I agree entirely that knowing a few hours in advance that there is going to be a surge in late arrivals for example can't just magic up resources nowadays but maybe it can avoid some issues that would otherwise make the situation worse.

Trouble is that most people nowadays expects to travel for next to nothing and still have a great service. However in order to do this all the parties involved have had to cut costs and resources to the bone, which is fine when it all goes right. But when it goes wrong - as it often does, always has and always will - then there is no contingency and things rapidly descend into chaos. And with social media this gets picked up quickly and is spread around the world in minutes.

Glad to be out of all this now.

Correct, Sir. LCDM is Local CDM limited to just the ground handling time stamps and not the ATC ones which come with full implementation. It's a sort of first stage of a phased introduction. Deadline for MAN to be fully A-CDM is the end of 2020. Contract award imminent for supply and installation of systems at MAN (partially funded by Eurocontrol / EU not quite sure who), and looking to implement over the next 12 months. Makes sense for MAN to remain part of this whatever Brexit throws up but I guess that, along with everything else, is yet to be decided. I agree with those who say A-CDM will not mitigate for lack of resource in the ground handling world but it should provide a better tool for tactical allocation of resource.

MKY661

1st Oct 2018, 17:41

Primera Air flights from MAN-AGP will now not start as the airline has gone into Administration.

Suzeman

1st Oct 2018, 17:58

Re CDM etc
Thanks Roverman

FFMAN

2nd Oct 2018, 09:24

Trouble is that most people nowadays expects to travel for next to nothing and still have a great service.

Suzeman - please don't take this personally - I'm only quoting you as an example of a comment I see on here a lot.
That kind of comment seems to represent the overall customer service approach to passengers at MAN; that flights are 'next to nothing'.
Most people pay more than next to nothing these days and some like me who have to travel with the job end up paying a small fortune BUT still get the kind of service that 'next to nothing' buys.

If you look at the profits of MAG and the profits of some of its biggest airline customers - someone somewhere is having a serious laugh at the expense of the passenger.

Johnny F@rt Pants

2nd Oct 2018, 10:28

If you look at the profits of MAG and the profits of some of its biggest airline customers - someone somewhere is having a serious laugh at the expense of the passenger.

I actually don't think that is the case, profit margins are very tight, it is down to volume. MAG runs airports that collectively see a throughput of about 60 million people, and they made £217 million, thats less than £4 per passenger unless I'm being a bit numb (there's a good chance of that), and I know from having sat and listened to the management of the biggest airline based at MAN, that margins are similar, 4p in the £.

I don't think they are having a serious laugh at all, not at those margins.

AndrewH52

2nd Oct 2018, 11:20

I actually don't think that is the case, profit margins are very tight, it is down to volume. MAG runs airports that collectively see a throughput of about 60 million people, and they made £217 million, thats less than £4 per passenger unless I'm being a bit numb (there's a good chance of that), and I know from having sat and listened to the management of the biggest airline based at MAN, that margins are similar, 4p in the £.

I don't think they are having a serious laugh at all, not at those margins.

Revenue per passenger was nearly £14 in the last financial year. Profit can be adjusted through investment decisions, depreciation, etc so 'making' £217m is potentially not the full picture. Besides, they still managed to give shareholders dividends of £166m - or around £2.80 per passenger...

Suzeman

2nd Oct 2018, 18:30

Suzeman - please don't take this personally - I'm only quoting you as an example of a comment I see on here a lot.
That kind of comment seems to represent the overall customer service approach to passengers at MAN; that flights are 'next to nothing'.
Most people pay more than next to nothing these days and some like me who have to travel with the job end up paying a small fortune BUT still get the kind of service that 'next to nothing' buys.

No point in taking this personally - life is too short :)

I'm in no way trying to justify the Airport's overall customer approach, just that the largest volume of their passengers are price conscious and expect to travel at a low cost. The way of the world is such now that to be competitive in this market, the Airport and its agents have to cut costs to the bone to reduce charges. This then has consequences in all sorts of areas, especially when things go wrong, but it seems that dealing with these consequences is not one of the Airport's strong points.

This is not to say that premium passengers should put up with the same service levels as everyone else. The higher cost is for a better service level at the airport and on the flight; sadly it seems on some counts at least that higher level of service is not being met at the airport

Toodle Pip

southside bobby

3rd Oct 2018, 11:51

MAG announces plans to bid for a 35 year concession in partnership with a Chinese company to operate Sofia Airport,Bulgaria.

Betablockeruk

3rd Oct 2018, 13:36

MAG announces plans to bid for a 35 year concession in partnership with a Chinese company to operate Sofia Airport,Bulgaria.

I'm sure the MEN will give them a good reference

Suzeman

3rd Oct 2018, 13:39

MAG announces plans to bid for a 35 year concession in partnership with a Chinese company to operate Sofia Airport,Bulgaria.

Story here
https://mediacentre.magairports.com/mag--confirms-its-participation-in-sofia-airport-concession-process/

I hope they have the resources to do all this without losing focus on the current airports as seems to have happened in the past...

In addition they have an endorsement from Grayling - not sure given his past performance at things transport and justice whether that is a good thing or not :eek:

MANFOD

3rd Oct 2018, 14:04

Story here
https://mediacentre.magairports.com/mag--confirms-its-participation-in-sofia-airport-concession-process/

I hope they have the resources to do all this without losing focus on the current airports as seems to have happened in the past...

In addition they have an endorsement from Grayling - not sure given his past performance at things transport and justice whether that is a good thing or not :eek:

Agreed Suzeman. I suspect some with recent poor experiences at MAN & STN might suggest it would be a good idea to focus on getting their own houses in order first.

As for an endorsement from Grayling, hmmmm. Perhaps the Bulgarians are unaware of those 'performances'.
Perhaps we should send him to run their railways?

roverman

3rd Oct 2018, 16:14

Monarch plus 365 days (366 actually). The daily traffic stats have already leaped back into positive. MAN did well to back-fill the lost traffic but a year's growth was wiped out by the biggest airline collapse in UK history. The likes of LHR and STN were unaffected but MAN and especially BHX were hit hard. Primera has minimal effect on MAN but a big loss for STN.

southside bobby

3rd Oct 2018, 16:20

Big loss of course for prestige re the TATL with STN but not so much in terms of the numbers.

MANFOD

3rd Oct 2018, 17:24

Monarch plus 365 days (366 actually). The daily traffic stats have already leaped back into positive. MAN did well to back-fill the lost traffic but a year's growth was wiped out by the biggest airline collapse in UK history.

roverman, Do I take it from your comment that September should show an increase in pax, or were you referring just to the first couple of days of October?

chaps1954

3rd Oct 2018, 21:30

It`s going to be October as Monarch were still operating in September 2017

roverman

3rd Oct 2018, 22:35

roverman, Do I take it from your comment that September should show an increase in pax, or were you referring just to the first couple of days of October?

September I expect to be flatter than Bonneville Salt Flats but October should have more of a Cape Canaveral feel to it.

MANFOD

4th Oct 2018, 07:07

It`s going to be October as Monarch were still operating in September 2017
Yes, I appreciate that. Was just trying to clarify roverman's implication.

Quoting roverman:
"September I expect to be flatter than Bonneville Salt Flats but October should have more of a Cape Canaveral feel to it"

Thank you roverman. I see your picture clearly.

Scottie Dog

7th Oct 2018, 19:39

An update for the construction of the Terminal 2 extension and associated works courtesy of PlaneTalk Issue 62. Please do not copy or reproduce on any other forum or thread.

https://preview.ibb.co/j2Onr9/Screenshot_20181005_191249.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/jUO94U/Screenshot_20181005_191326.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/ctN2PU/Screenshot_20181005_191122.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/feLNPU/Screenshot_20181005_191141.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/fr0vdp/Screenshot_20181005_191427.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/fYfvdp/Screenshot_20181005_191447.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/hWUXPU/Screenshot_20181005_191505.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/dyez4U/Screenshot_20181005_191541.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/h8QHr9/Screenshot_20181005_191601.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/nLEcr9/Screenshot_20181005_191625.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/jpoRjU/Screenshot_20181005_191733.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/nmMCPU/Screenshot_20181005_191803.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/fPUAB9/Screenshot_20181005_191840.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/bU9oyp/Screenshot_20181005_191858.jpg

https://preview.ibb.co/fAuAB9/Screenshot_20181005_191937.jpg

Bernoulli

9th Oct 2018, 07:48

I’m not terribly keen on that green wallpaper.

Logohu

9th Oct 2018, 08:01

I’m not terribly keen on that green wallpaper.

Hopefully it is just a protective coat or film for whatever lies underneath it, and will be removed once construction is complete.

lfc84

9th Oct 2018, 08:04

hahaha that's really funny

Plane.Silly

9th Oct 2018, 12:30

I’m not terribly keen on that green wallpaper.

Maybe they could use it as a 'Green Screen', showing them where they should be, while they wait in the inevitable delays at MAN :p

FFHKG

9th Oct 2018, 16:26

Ex Cargo Clown

10th Oct 2018, 08:22

Daily QR 77W added from December so I hear

Logohu

10th Oct 2018, 11:20

Daily QR 77W added from December so I hear

Yes, 77W replaces the A359 on the daily lunchtime service from 01Dec according to Airline Route.
QR certainly providing variety this winter with A359 on the morning flight, 77W on the lunchtime, and 788 in the evenings.

From May next year frequency increased from 18 to 21 weekly, all 788 at this stage.

Curious Pax

10th Oct 2018, 13:24

While I share your pessimism about the new road opening by the advertised ‘late summer’, which gives them 2 months, it’s worth saying that the last stages of a new road can happen very quickly if it’s mainly tarmacing and putting up a few lampposts and roadsigns. The new road layout at the top of the motorway spur at MAN seemed to go from a mess to opening in a matter of days. That said my money’s on Christmas.....

Seems I was pessimistic- opens 15th October

Plane.Silly

10th Oct 2018, 14:43

Seems I was pessimistic- opens 15th October

Steady on there, it's not open yet, Still every change they overlook something and push the date back again

FFMAN

10th Oct 2018, 16:08

Manchester management please take note: "Industry group Airport Councils International’s (ACI) recent Airport Service Quality: Airport Cleanliness report found that clean restrooms and terminals had the greatest effect on travellers’ airport ratings. “If you want a pleasant experience, clean bathrooms are a must,” said ACI associate director Dimitri Coll."

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
This is one area where MAN falls far short of most other airports and they always seem to stink.
Just mentioned this to a colleague from Dublin - response 'yeah the ones at Manchester are notably terrible'

Scottie Dog

11th Oct 2018, 15:59

Courtesy of Airlineroutes
Emirates from December 2018 further increases capacity on Dubai – Manchester route, as the airline schedules 2nd daily 2-class A380 operation. From 01DEC18, EK021/022 will see 2-class 615-seater A380 operating, instead of 3-class aircraft on daily basis. Apart from temporary reduction during Dubai International Airport runway maintenance project from 16APR19 to 30MAY19, EK021/022 will also see 2-class A380 continue operating during summer 2019 season, from 31MAR19.

MANFOD

11th Oct 2018, 16:29

Thanks Scottie. Has it been confirmed how MAN is affected by the Dubai runway work? Do we lose the EK21/22 for that 6 week period?

Scottie Dog

11th Oct 2018, 17:54

Unfortunately I can't help, at the moment, with regards how MAN will be effected by the DXB runway closure.

On a separate note, I see that the Rouge daily programme to YYZ for Summer 2019 is between 22nd June and 17th September.

Breathe

11th Oct 2018, 17:55

BrewDog Manchester Airport is planned for mid-2019, according to this document from the brewers:

http://448f59f74df57015bbb8-a9447b7dfa4ae38e337b359963d557c4.r88.cf3.rackcdn.com/12117%20-%20Brewdog%20Blueprint%20Brief%20v7%20-%20Interactive%202.pdf

FFHKG

11th Oct 2018, 18:45

More opportunities for passengers from Ryanair and the like to get "tanked-up" and cause chaos once airborne!

Airfrance7

11th Oct 2018, 19:13

I am slightly concerned with the lack of activity from LAX_LHR.

MAN777

12th Oct 2018, 07:55

OltonPete

12th Oct 2018, 08:29

Although it may be good news for Pax figures the 2 class A380s are a real pain for Business users. Previously exit was rapid on arrival (25 min into Limo was my best)

With 2 class you get held up behind the upper deck economy Pax causing considerable delays to the whole process right the way through to immigration and baggage collection, so from my perspective its not an improvement.

I am however a realist and understand EK cannot keep 3 class aircraft flying on the route just to speed up my exit from MAN !

Maybe a bit of light at the end of the tunnel it has been rumoured that premium economy will be upstairs thus fewer seats and even now these seats are extra cost and often go spare although I am talking BHX not man but well worth the extra. I am not sure if premium is confirmed for 2 class. The day I flew there were more in business than economy upstairs it was fantastic but that was from BHX.

Interesting Manchester getting an upgrade on the very the morning service BHX couldn't sustain a 360 or 428 seat 777.

Pete

MANFOD

12th Oct 2018, 08:46

Interesting Pete. I'd heard mention of EK introducing P/E at some stage and I guess upstairs on the A380 instead of First would make sense.

I hadn't realised the seats upstairs in economy cost more but it might explain when we flew back to MAN in January why there was only 1 person in that section so 40+ empty seats. And they tried to tell me there were 600 pax on board! Downstairs looked full and Business certainly was with not a single spare seat.

GEB74

12th Oct 2018, 14:20

Thanks Scottie. Has it been confirmed how MAN is affected by the Dubai runway work? Do we lose the EK21/22 for that 6 week period?

Yes - EK21/22 is the flight to get binned for the duration of the runway works at DXB.
Other two flights still operate 7/7

MANFOD

12th Oct 2018, 14:27

Thanks GEB74. Could have been worse.

Mr Mac

14th Oct 2018, 07:29

Although it may be good news for Pax figures the 2 class A380s are a real pain for Business users. Previously exit was rapid on arrival (25 min into Limo was my best)

With 2 class you get held up behind the upper deck economy Pax causing considerable delays to the whole process right the way through to immigration and baggage collection, so from my perspective its not an improvement.

I am however a realist and understand EK cannot keep 3 class aircraft flying on the route just to speed up my exit from MAN !

Totally agree with you Man 777, it does take time to get off the two class 380 but at least they are not quite as worn as some of the 3 class A/C they have used in my experience. Those new 380 can not come soon enough.
Regards
Mr Mac

Logohu

14th Oct 2018, 07:53

Totally agree with you Man 777, it does take time to get off the two class 380 but at least they are not quite as worn as some of the 3 class A/C they have used in my experience. Those new 380 can not come soon enough.
Regards
Mr Mac

At the risk of thread drift, considering the oldest EK A380 is still only 10 years old (and most are much younger) that's a bit sad. I wonder if that's due to lack of attention to the cabins by Emirates, or cost cutting at Airbus when they were first built ?

I have read elsewhere that EK regularly rotates its fleet through periods of short term storage at Dubai World Central, which ought to be a good opportunity to keep on top of aircraft appearance issues.

DomyDom

17th Oct 2018, 21:58

New FR route (as rumoured previously)
Manchester- Nantes 2 x week (Wed/Sun) for S19
On sale now.

chaps1954

19th Oct 2018, 11:29

Is Manchester on the cusp of further growth after reading all the news coming in re expansion of high tech jobs
with office space growing at a monumental rate and new sign ups totaling nearly 1.5m sq feet this year alone
with many of the top companies moving in the next year or so (The Hut Group, Amazon Tech HQ, Google HMRC GCHQ
etc etc). Manchester at present is growing at more than any city except in London in the UK and is in top 5 in Europe
for the Tech business

BHX5DME

19th Oct 2018, 18:38

Creidit LBIA on this forum

MANCHESTER (CITYFLYER)

FLIGHT CANCELLATIONS
Malaga (AGP) - BA7317/7318 cancelled between 17 May and 27 September 2019. Customers will be moved onto flights on the same route on the following day.
Ibiza (IBZ) - BA7312 cancelled between 18 May and 28 September 2019 & BA7313 cancelled between 17 May and 27 September 2019 & BA7314 cancelled between 19 May and 29 September 2019 & BA7315 cancelled between 17 May and 28 September

MANFOD

19th Oct 2018, 22:11

At least we seem to have retained some BACF flights Ian.

chaps1954

20th Oct 2018, 07:27

But I don`t mean bucket and spade.

chinapattern

20th Oct 2018, 12:02

At least we seem to have retained some BACF flights Ian.

It's funny that LAX-LHR couldn't wait to announce BHX and BRS had lost their flights on another forum yet remained ominously quiet about MAN's losses!

Scottie Dog

20th Oct 2018, 12:19

It's funny that LAX-LHR couldn't wait to announce BHX and BRS had lost their flights on another forum yet remained ominously quiet about MAN's losses!

could it be that he's actually away travelling and therefore offline? Please don't always think the worst if people, there can be occasions when you can't make a response for a day of two.

As they say "take shelter and prepare for inbound attack".

LAX_LHR

20th Oct 2018, 12:22

It's funny that LAX-LHR couldn't wait to announce BHX and BRS had lost their flights on another forum yet remained ominously quiet about MAN's losses!

chinapattern:

1- Why do you feel the need to belittle me at every oppertunity you can. Your obsession is just creepy, sad, pathetic and just down right weird. Move on, you look a fool.

2- it may have escaped your attention that I haven’t actually posted on here for a while, even with good news to report. But, let’s not let reality get in the way of your chance to be a keyboard warrior eh? I will continue to avoid posting on here in the main, but felt it was appropriate to come on and call you out for the sad little individual you are.

3- I did actually report the Cityflyer MAN news via other channels. But again, let’s not have the truth inconvenience your sad little tirade.

4- Funny how you don’t lambast your little flag boy for BHX for doing what you accuse me of, isn’t it? By that, I mean funny how Ian F/BHX5DME, and the fact he only seems interested in this thread when there is bad news to report. But no, of course you wouldn’t call out your little poster boy, would you?

5- instead of pestering me and obsessing, why not worry about your own little airport. Yes, MAN has lost a few flights from BA. Least we still have them. How’s BA working out for BHX? How’s your TATL? Any luck getting an Easyjet base yet? Ryanair expansion? Icelandair? FlyOne? Air India reductions? Too soon?

hopefully this post stays on long enough for you to read it, I have no doubt at all that it will eventualły get removed. I’m not even that fussed if I get banned off here. The fact that’s the level of discussion has sunk to ‘how can I mock LAX_LHR today’ or fictional moans about the airport with some ridiculous sentiment, seems I won’t be missing much!

over and out.

eggc

20th Oct 2018, 13:39

Never fails to amaze me the level of petty point scoring. For the record LAX is a advocate of regional aviation in general. You will find posts of his in other threads of new services. Some are just overly touchy when news isnt so positive, but its not LAX's fault that certain airports have unfortunatley more bad news than good. LAX is an asset to this site.

FFHKG

20th Oct 2018, 13:51

Whilst my experiences of MAN that I have reported on here have been quite negative in the last 18 months, LAX_LHR always tries to put a positive spin on matters, I have to agree with him that the quality of some of the recent posts on this thread leave a great deal to be desired, and in some cases are solely personal attacks.

In my opinion, it's time for a change on this thread, and I would urge all those posting here to think carefully if their post is really (1) constructive (2) informative and (3) adds anything to what others have posted. If it does not meet one of these criteria, I would suggest that this is not the place to express their views.

Come on guys, make tis an interesting and dynamic thread, and not one that risks the mods repeating their earlier actions of closing the MAN thread down.

easyflyer83

20th Oct 2018, 14:49

My airport is better than yours is a really petty and sorry state of affairs. This isn’t anything against LAX I should add.

pwalhx

20th Oct 2018, 16:27

Sorry that LAX has decided not to post, he was always there with useful information and updates, not sure where else he posts hopefully he will have a change of heart and continue on here.

BHX5DME

20th Oct 2018, 17:22

Good to see MAG Group hitting the 60m pax mark

https://mediacentre.magairports.com/mag-serves-60m-passengers-in-a-year-for-the-first-time/

paully

20th Oct 2018, 18:04

Sorry that LAX has decided not to post, he was always there with useful information and updates, not sure where else he posts hopefully he will have a change of heart and continue on here.

I couldn`t agree more..Hopefully he will have a change of heart which will benefit us on here...........well most that is

chaps1954

20th Oct 2018, 18:13

Yes I totally agree

A330ETOPS

20th Oct 2018, 19:04

Even though I rarely post, I’ve been reading this thread daily for god knows how many years, being based at Manchester.

I always look forward to the posts off the regulars, mainly LAX_LHR with updates on new routes for the airport, which we all like to see.

Shame the minority have to spoil it with silly comments. We’re all adults here :ugh:

eye2eye5

20th Oct 2018, 19:10

Mr A Tis

20th Oct 2018, 19:52

Anyone else remember when this was a Professional Pilots Forum?
Now a handbags at dawn spotters forum.

LAX_LHR

20th Oct 2018, 19:58

For my two penn'orth, LAX-LHR lacks balance in his posts. He has inside knowledge which allows him to post details of new or additional services, but fails to balance that with details of reducing or ceasing services. I know he feels that is not his function, but he then comes across as a happy clappy cheerleader and not an informed contributor.

and another one who selectively misreads posts so they can get their little dig in. Funny that I’ve just looked back at a few of my posts and they indeed report bad news. AA to ORD going and VLM collapsing thus not starting MAN are 2 recent ones for a start, not my fault that MAN seems to be enjoying more good news than bad news route wise, or is the green eyed monster clouding things a little perhaps?. And as I’ve said, I report both good and bad news as regularly as required on other channels.

Another reason my posts could seem to lack ‘balance’ Is that others, usually from other airports that have been named previously, are very very quick off the draw when it comes to bad news, thus I miss the chance to report it so. If those same people shared the same enthusiasm and speed to post the good news, well, we could all live as one happy sappy family couldnt we? Your rock awaits your return......

(as you can tell by the tone of my posts, I just don’t care anymore, why should I have to sit here and take this sh*te nonsense purely because I post good news.....)

NRU74

20th Oct 2018, 20:00

Just in case anyone doesn’t know, the new A555 link road Man Airport >Hazel Grove opened last Monday. Great if you live near the Hazel Grove area but for those of us in N Derbyshire/S Yorks it’s not much of a help because the 6 miles+ from the A555/A6 junction to the northern end of the Chapel bypass down the A6 is still a real pain. It’s c 6.2 miles but took me 22 mins last Wed evening

Luke1991

20th Oct 2018, 23:29

Does anybody know why 5 aircraft have positioned tonight into MAN from Glasgow?
LY-VEA
G-GDFD
YL-LCT
G-JZBE
G-GDFY

OltonPete

20th Oct 2018, 23:59

Does anybody know why 5 aircraft have positioned tonight into MAN from Glasgow?
LY-VEA
G-GDFD
YL-LCT
G-JZBE
G-GDFY

End of Scottish Half-term flights using English based aircraft to run extra's and then usually to return to the English base to operate the outbound extra English half-term flights.

LY-NVX was also used from Glasgow and then returned to BHX to operate an extra English half-term to Tenerife although Birmingham and Solihull schools break up next Friday but Coventry and some others are this week. October half-term in the Midlands has been spread over 3 weeks this year instead of 1 or 2 and this will help passenger figures no-end but I am not sure if it is the same for the North West

Pete