Manchester-2

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

3 days parking, £58, that’s less than £20 a day. I don’t think that’s barmy. Less than £1 per hour, you can’t park in the town centre for that price.

[LFC22]

Considering I just booked 14 days parking at Jetparks Ringway for £60, I'd say that price is very barmy

[KelvinD]

Not 3 days parking, more like 40 hours but that was not the point. The' barmy' ref was the comparison between the cost of getting from Manchester to Dublin and back for 2 people vs the cost of leaving 1 car for 1 night.

[dave59]

Where have all the regular contributors to this forum gone? Very few posts these days. Skyscrapercity seems to be equally thin compared to a few months ago.

[chaps1954]

Perhaps not much to talk about at present

[Luke1991]

Passed through T1 this morning for an easyJet flight to Budapest, we're being held on the ground until 06:30 due to "atc restrictions"
I wasn't aware of any issues, can anyone shed any light?

[irishlad06]

Passed through T1 this morning for an easyJet flight to Budapest, we're being held on the ground until 06:30 due to "atc restrictions"
I wasn't aware of any issues, can anyone shed any light?

it will be a slot restriction. Every day occurrence - happens on a lot of flights.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I wasn't aware of any issues, can anyone shed any light?

I take it you checked flow control for the relevant sectors that you will pass through en route to Budapest prior to boarding to alert yourself to any en route “issues”??

[flightcatcher]

"Passed through T1 this morning for an easyJet flight to Budapest, we're being held on the ground until 06:30 due to "atc restrictions"
I wasn't aware of any issues, can anyone shed any light?"



Assuming it was a 'slot delay' it would most likely be due to too many flights planning to go through a certain ATC sector, or arrive at the airport, at the same time. Happens daily, like irishlad says. Any further issues such as weather (thunderstorms, fog etc) or staff shortages would reduce capacity and lead to bigger delays. I'm guessing you weren't due to leave until 0600 or after (UK first wave departures don't really start until then) so that delay doesn't sound excessive - probably just smoothing traffic levels through en-route sectors.

[737aviator]

I wasn't aware of any issues, can anyone shed any light?

From the 0556 Eurocontrol tactical update.
"LHCC (Budapest)
East and North High Top sector regulated due to capacity.
Low to moderate delays."

[Scottie Dog]

It's a while since I posted any updates on the MANTP project, however here are details from PlaneTalk Issue #77

https://i.ibb.co/HBvKWJD/Screenshot-20190211-153856.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Ydm93sm/Screenshot-20190211-153907.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JxNBcmy/Screenshot-20190211-153920.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HT5c64T/Screenshot-20190211-153932.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/xFkgpXw/Screenshot-20190211-153943.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/mtWxKwJ/Screenshot-20190211-153957.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/3MYRBvm/Screenshot-20190211-154015.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0XjgqNb/Screenshot-20190211-154217.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/d07PDp0/Screenshot-20190211-154228.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/ygcXBSG/Screenshot-20190211-154240.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/TbbHTJ9/Screenshot-20190211-154252.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/WgLbW3v/Screenshot-20190211-154304.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/bmYznXn/Screenshot-20190211-154336.jpg

[Betablockeruk]

Ethiopian put a 737 Max on today's ET728, ADD-MAN direct. BRU not available.

Wonder it that's their thoughts for a de-linked service?

[EZYMAN]

Ethiopian put a 737 Max on today's ET728, ADD-MAN direct. BRU not available.

Wonder it that's their thoughts for a de-linked service?

Belive it’s to do with Air Traffic Strikes/Restrictions

[Betablockeruk]

I knew that, but wondered why they just didn't use the assigned 787 and went with the MAX?

It's quiet on here so I'm just putting some conspiracy theories out there, that ET will use the MAX for a nonstop ADD-MAN in the future :hmm:

[boredintheairport]

I knew that, but wondered why they just didn't use the assigned 787 and went with the MAX?

It's quiet on here so I'm just putting some conspiracy theories out there, that ET will use the MAX for a nonstop ADD-MAN in the future :hmm:

Did it actually fly? Flightradar has no information about the flight. Someone on it? Or eyes on the ground.

Would it have had to stop for fuel en-route?

[eggc]

It did indeed operate, ET-AVK arriving at around 0640.

[PDXCWL45]

Did it actually fly? Flightradar has no information about the flight. Someone on it? Or eyes on the ground.

Would it have had to stop for fuel en-route?
yes it did there photos on social media

[Adrian68]

Timetable for MAN/ADD

04MAR 07MAR .23.... MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
08MAR 10MAR ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 789*C
11MAR .23.5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
16FEB 28FEB .23.5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
15FEB ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 77L*C
01MAR 03MAR ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 789*C
13FEB ..3.... MAN ADD 1910# 0640 ET 729 7M8*C
END OF DISPLAY
>

[boredintheairport]

It did indeed operate, ET-AVK arriving at around 0640.

Interesting, thanks.

[boredintheairport]

Timetable for MAN/ADD

04MAR 07MAR .23.... MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
08MAR 10MAR ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 789*C
11MAR .23.5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
16FEB 28FEB .23.5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 787*C
15FEB ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 77L*C
01MAR 03MAR ....5.7 MAN1 ADD 1910# 0730 ET 729 789*C
13FEB ..3.... MAN ADD 1910# 0640 ET 729 7M8*C
END OF DISPLAY
>

I'm sure I don't understand much of this. But from context I assume it means today's flight was a 737 as discussed, but that on the 15th February it's going to be a 777?

[Curious Pax]

I'm sure I don't understand much of this. But from context I assume it means today's flight was a 737 as discussed, but that on the 15th February it's going to be a 777?

Presumably they’ll have extra Brussels-bound pax who couldn’t get there today to mop up, hence the extra capacity.

[boredintheairport]

Presumably they’ll have extra Brussels-bound pax who couldn’t get there today to mop up, hence the extra capacity.
Though tomorrow will also be a normal day, and there are daily flights to Brussels (not all continue to Manchester).

[Betablockeruk]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzjCuXhW0AA_Jt7.jpg

[gojmc]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzjCuXhW0AA_Jt7.jpg

ezy are changing handling agent on the 19th Feb to DHL

[The96er]

As stated by gojmc, the handling contract at MAN is changing to DHL, I think MAG may receive a response from Menzies legal department there.

[750XL]

Who from MAG creates these horrendous MS Paint like social media images.

[Scottie Dog]

Full credit to PlaneTalk from which issue 78 is taken:

https://i.ibb.co/TwCGdhD/Screenshot-20190218-144326.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/mDr7X7p/Screenshot-20190218-144445.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Kr4DFYZ/Screenshot-20190218-144506.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/tmpqdXs/Screenshot-20190218-144526.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/q93JGwX/Screenshot-20190218-144547.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/4TtfZrq/Screenshot-20190218-144600.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Nm2vMjp/Screenshot-20190218-144626.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/gwJtjvT/Screenshot-20190218-144653.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Mgyt9gV/Screenshot-20190218-144707.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/SPVRDBY/Screenshot-20190218-144724.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/nDSG6mg/Screenshot-20190218-144740.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Fg7nxVc/Screenshot-20190218-145232.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/64XhmgC/Screenshot-20190218-145243.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/548w0nL/Screenshot-20190218-145256.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/68MhcJ6/Screenshot-20190218-145314.jpg

Whilst appreciating that some of these photographs are identical to those in previous posts, they are included in order to show the complete update as provided by PlaneTalk.

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Out of interest what is PP04? Is this the start of the new double taxiway for T2

[Scottie Dog]

Out of interest what is PP04? Is this the start of the new double taxiway for T2

Correct this is the start of taxiway Echo.

If I remember I'll send you a PM with a better photo tomorrow when I'm on the laptop.

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Cheers, complete ball ache having to use Alpha to get to T3 ��

[Porky Speedpig]

How is the first day of the DHL handling going?

[DomyDom]

New Ryanair route: MAN - Poitiers 2 weekly (Sun/Wed) from 5th June 19.

[Up up and away]

VS680/681 MAN-DXB-MAN G-VXLG. Just noticed this on FR24 return today after flying out yesterday. Was it a special charter?

[Betablockeruk]

VS680/681 MAN-DXB-MAN G-VXLG. Just noticed this on FR24 return today after flying out yesterday. Was it a special charter?



P&O cruise related

[Betablockeruk]

One-to-one with Robert Smith, Head of Aviation Development, Manchester Airport (https://www.anna.aero/2019/02/20/one-to-one-with-robert-smith-head-of-aviation-development-manchester-airport/)

Bangkok, Shanghai, Delhi. All the usual suspects.

Didn't mention Kuwait.

[Scottie Dog]

For BluffOldSeaDog

OAN 17/2019 – MAN-TP PP04 CONSTRUCTION OF NEW TAXIWAY ECHO (Phase 3)
OAN REF:- 17/2019 DATE OF ISSUE:- 20/02/19 EFFECTIVE DATE:- 10/03/19 EXPIRY DATE:- 19/11/19
1.0 SUMMARY
1.1 A programme of up to 9 months work, in two phases, to construct the PP04 new Taxiway Echo. For the first phase one of the works, Taxiways Alpha and Charlie will be closed H24 at Intermediate Holding Points (IHPs) A4, A5, C1 and C2. For the second phase of the works Taxiway Charlie will be closed H24 at IHP C2.
2.0 PROGRAMME
2.1 The overall programme of work will commence at 20:00hrs local on Sunday 10th March 2019 until 06:00hrs local on Tuesday 19th November 2019.
2.1.1 Phase 1 will commence on Sunday 10th March until 06:00hrs on Thursday 18th April 2019.
2.1.2 Phase 2 will commence on Sunday 10th March until 06:00hrs on Tuesday 19th November 2019.
2.2 The nightly working hours will be 20:00hrs to 06:00hrs local.
2.3 Site set up will commence on Sunday 10th March 2019 with the welfare cabins being relocated from Taxiway Kilo between 8 th and 14th March.
3.0 SCOPE & LOCATION OF WORKS
3.1 Work will be located within an enclosed and demarked work area on Taxiways Alpha and Charlie between IHPs A4, A5, C1 &C2.
3.2 The overall scope of works will encompass the following:
• Site Clearance associated with the removal of existing airfield infrastructure.
• Excavation of existing grassed area and construction of proposed pavement.
• Installation of surface water drainage including attenuation.
• Installation of new Primary & Secondary AGL ducting.
• Reconfiguration of existing taxiways.
• Installation of various taxiway signage & surface markings.
4.0 OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS
4.1 Taxiway Closures and Restrictions
4.1.1 Taxiways Alpha and Charlie, between IHPs A4, A5, C1 and C2 will be closed H24 from 20:00hrs on the night of Sunday 10th March 2019, for the duration of the first phase of works. Paragraph 2.1.1 refers.
4.1.2 Taxiway Charlie, at IHP C2, will remain closed H24 for the second phase of works until 06:00hrs on Tuesday 19th November 2019. Paragraph 2.1.2 refers.
4.1.3 The closed sections of taxiways will be demarked by lit barriers and unlit taxiway centrelines.
4.1.4 Taxiway Bravo between IHP B4 and IHP B5 remains downgraded to a Code E Taxilane for the duration of the works.
4.1.5 Taxiway Bravo between IHP B4 and IHP B5 will be restricted to a maximum of ICAO Code C aircraft types (B739/A32B) 19:00-06:00 Sunday to Thursday inclusive, but will reopen as a Code E Taxilane each day. The fixed melba logs at 26m from Taxiway Bravo centreline, delineating the muster point, and the portable blast screens will remain in situ throughout the works.
4.1.6 Taxiway Bravo will reopen as ICAO Code F capable between IHP B2 and IHP B3 from 06:00hrs local on Friday 8th March 2019.
4.1.7 Taxiway Kilo will reopen between IHP K4 and IHP K5 as ICAO Code F taxiway from 06:00hrs local on Friday 15th March 2019.
4.1.8 NB. Promulgated restrictions remain: No Code F aircraft between B2 and B3 if aircraft on Taxiway Kilo west of K4.
4.1.9 Drawings attached to this document show the overall area of taxiway closures whilst the work is in progress.
4.2 Compass Swing Base
4.2.1 The Compass Swing Base facility will be withdrawn from use for the duration of the works.
4.3 Engine Test Bay & Open-field Testing 4.3.1 For the duration of the works the use of the Engine Test Bay remains available during the published times. Access will be via IHP B2 onto Taxiway Alpha. It should be noted that there is no painted centreline from B2 north on to Taxiway Alpha towards IHP A4.
4.3.2 All movements to and from the ETB must be carried out under the safety oversight of an Airfield Operations Safety Officer (ASCO) who will move the mobile barrier at the Alpha/Bravo junction prior to any movement to and from the ETB.
4.3.3 Aircraft larger than ICAO Code C (A321/B739) should be towed towards A3 and pushed back tail first along TWY Alpha in to the ETB. When towed from the ETB, the aircraft may be towed towards the WIP at IHP A4, pushed tail back towards IHP A3 and then towed forwards along TWY Bravo to its allocated stand. It should be noted that this manoeuvre cannot be carried out if there is an aircraft parked on the taxiway between Signature and A4.
4.3.4 The facility to carry out open-field testing will remain available but will be coordinated tactically by the ADM on the day. Time restrictions will apply.
4.4 Signature Aviation Apron – Aircraft Access/ Egress
4.4.1 Whilst work takes place at IHP A4, access/egress to/from the Signature Aviation apron will be via Taxiways Bravo and Alpha, west of IHP A4.
4.4.2 A barrier will be placed at the junction of TWY’s Alpha and Bravo to prevent aircraft taking an incorrect routing into the closed area. Airfield Operations will remove the barrier for any aircraft movements to/from Signature Aviation.
5.0 LOW VISIBILITY PROCEDURES (LVP)
5.1 Overall, the work has no impact on the airport’s ability to operate during periods of low visibility.
5.2 Work may continue during periods of low visibility at the ADM’s discretion.
6.0 FURTHER INFORMATION
6.1 A NOTAM(s) promulgating significant operational detail will be issued prior to the start of works.
6.2 An Aeronautical Information Package (AIP) supplement will been issued to provide further information.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/518x373/screenshot_235__953d0d7a962773dce2eb57ce4f84b9b7a0ba1d88.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/525x362/screenshot_236__b9a1129eaa2fb68e91e3070f8536b85087dc6eb3.png

[mariofly12]

Easyjet is increasing from August its MAN-ATH to daily and MAN-SKG to 4w..

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Anyone know what the KLM 777 was doing in this morning about 9ish?

[Betablockeruk]

Anyone know what the KLM 777 was doing in this morning about 9ish?

Another KLM repaint in Air Livery.

Air Livery, a MAN success story that doesn't get that much air time? They turnaround about 30+ (normally wide body) units every year. Will be 10 years this August since taking their first customer (RAF AWACS)

[FFMAN]

Look out flyers - another piece of Manchester only 'we do it better / properly here' nonsense appears to have been launched.
Been through T3 and they now want laptop chargers taken out of bags and put into trays. The number of trays that you need now for a simple processing is laughable compared to other airports.
Other members of the team arrived from Heathrow and Dublin and nobody had experienced the same at those airports.
Prepare yourselves

[Cazza_fly]

Look out flyers - another piece of Manchester only 'we do it better / properly here' nonsense appears to have been launched.
Been through T3 and they now want laptop chargers taken out of bags and put into trays. The number of trays that you need now for a simple processing is laughable compared to other airports.
Other members of the team arrived from Heathrow and Dublin and nobody had experienced the same at those airports.
Prepare yourselves

The fact that they advise (SHOUT) of up to an hour wait time if your items need a secondary search is a complete joke too. Why Manchester Airport continues to have so many additional rules on top of the DfT is absurd. No wonder passengers (even frequent flyers) can never get the routine right when MAN airport impose ever changing differences.

A reply from the DfT about MAN security explains that they can implement additional criteria and rules on screening in what they feel necessary. So long as it complies to their minimum standards. So then, why does no other airport feel the need these additional "rules"? I then find that concerning. Either these other UK airports are not doing checks properly or MAN airports equipment and search procedure is not up to scratch...

[zed3]

Oh dear... normally using LBA, where the security control is very efficient, we are due to use MAN in June. We fly MAN-LHR-SEZ with BA. Training it over the Pennines the day before and staying at the Radisson and with a 1230 deep to LHR, I am now not looking forward to the event, even in Club World. I am an experienced traveller and think I have made a mistake, via Schiphol would have been easier!
The truth remains to be seen... One lives and learns.

[pilot9250]

Oh dear... normally using LBA, where the security control is very efficient, we are due to use MAN in June. We fly MAN-LHR-SEZ with BA. Training it over the Pennines the day before and staying at the Radisson and with a 1230 deep to LHR, I am now not looking forward to the event, even in Club World. I am an experienced traveller and think I have made a mistake, via Schiphol would have been easier!
The truth remains to be seen... One lives and learns.

That some random Billy in the world's 53rd busiest airport can make up their own standards for this stuff is a simple indication that it really isn't all that important. It isn't like we're discussing anything fundamental like road signs or drug safety standards, or so many other things that can actually kill people if we don't get them just right.

I would suggest taking your laptop charger out and putting it on a tray.

It seems far more proportionate than changing your travel plans.

[pwalhx]

Look out flyers - another piece of Manchester only 'we do it better / properly here' nonsense appears to have been launched.
Been through T3 and they now want laptop chargers taken out of bags and put into trays. The number of trays that you need now for a simple processing is laughable compared to other airports.
Other members of the team arrived from Heathrow and Dublin and nobody had experienced the same at those airports.
Prepare yourselves

I flew through Manchester twice in the last couple of weeks, no sign of having to take chargers out and no shouting, in fact very polite and efficient, so one would contend it is not always as bad as some make out.

[GavinC]

That some random Billy in the world's 53rd busiest airport can make up their own standards for this stuff is a simple indication that it really isn't all that important. It isn't like we're discussing anything fundamental like road signs or drug safety standards, or so many other things that can actually kill people if we don't get them just right.

I would suggest taking your laptop charger out and putting it on a tray.

It seems far more proportionate than changing your travel plans.

I'm sorry but that's simply not true. The experience at MAN does put people off, particularly at T3 where regional flights compete with other modes and the MAN issues are at there worst.

For example, i've been to Glasgow a number of times recently. My instinct is to fly and the cost is comparable to the train if not better. I did fly once and my experience was as follows - get train to airport, fine. Walk to T3 from station, ok but outside. Security - shouty, aggressive, long queues, don't look at your phone! get everything out, use more trays. Unpleasant. Get into Terminal - Nowhere to sit, barely anywhere to stand, queues at all of the bars and shops. Unpleasant.

So i got the train most of the time and FlyBe missed out on the money i wanted to give them.

For what it's worth, there were no queues for security at GLA on the way back, nor were there queues when i flew to Glasgow from London City recently or back from Belfast City either. At all three airports i carried my same work gear and at all three i was able to use fewer trays and was not shouted at.

Lets also not forget that many of MAN's passengers will have a choice of airports depending on where they are going. That could be LPL, BHX or even LHR for some destinations.

MAN (T3) puts people off and the airport need to address it.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I departed MAN T3 for LHR on a BA Shuttle on the morning of 26th February, just hours before FFMAN posted his adverse comments about security there. I encountered no queue to speak of. No shouting. Staff were courteous. Processing routine. I was pulled aside for a pat-down search; MAN's full-body scanners identity perspiration patches as a potential security threat which is bizarre and inefficient. But I was still through everything in less than five minutes - no sweat ... well, just a bit apparently! Seating was available in the T3 lounge. I found catering outlets there to be of good standard and reasonably priced. Views across the airport are excellent.

I have flown through 451 airports across all continents bar Antarctica, around 25 in the last three months alone. I would rate the MAN user-experience in the top 25%. Not perfect, but where is? Even Singapore Changi, widely acclaimed as the world's best, has issues. Their security search is conducted at the departure gate shortly before boarding. In practice this means queuing in the corridor outside the gate lounge until the security staff turn up. Stunning architecture does not compensate for this. Nor does shopping. And it means you can't take drinks into the gate lounge and onto your flight. Kuala Lumpur's otherwise amazing terminal operates this system too. It's a total pain. At MAN, the security hassle comes early in the airport process ... once done, you can relax and enjoy the airport experience. That's a big plus. Don't take it for granted.

I'm bemused reading some of the hysteria posted on this thread. Where do these people fly to? How often? If they think negotiating security at MAN is challenging then they can't be well travelled. May I recommend changing planes at Casablanca? You haven't lived till you've tried that one! You'll never complain about MAN again.

Whingeing Poms, eh? Sorry, couldn't resist. We love ya really!!!

[Espada III]

I regret that as a frequent user of MAN, GavinC's comments are more likely to be accurate than someone who has flown from there on the odd occasion and possibly during a period between the low cost departure swarms.

Yes, it can be efficient, but when it is, we look at each other and say 'Why can't it be like this all the time?'

I flew through Luton at 0715 on the Sunday of half term. It was very very busy, but all the security lanes were open and we were through almost without waiting. Why could MAN not do this on the 24th December, when I suffered a one hour wait in line for security.Instead they had three lanes out of 12 open.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Where did I say I travel "on the odd occasion?" Those in the business fly frequently. I'm a regular at UK airports including transits through MAN well into three figures. All three terminals. All times of day.

The hysteria on this thread is out of all proportion to the reality.

[chaps1954]

Thanks Ozzy I don`t bother reading this much now as it is just a MAN bashing site

[GavinC]

I regret that as a frequent user of MAN, GavinC's comments are more likely to be accurate than someone who has flown from there on the odd occasion and possibly during a period between the low cost departure swarms.

Yes, it can be efficient, but when it is, we look at each other and say 'Why can't it be like this all the time?'

I flew through Luton at 0715 on the Sunday of half term. It was very very busy, but all the security lanes were open and we were through almost without waiting. Why could MAN not do this on the 24th December, when I suffered a one hour wait in line for security.Instead they had three lanes out of 12 open.

I suspect its both in reality. T3 can be ok at times but its often rammed too particularly in the early evening when it can be a nightmare. My colleagues that visit from Belfast always travel back in the evening from T3 and regard MAN as the worst airport in the UK because of it. They have no choice but to fly of course. Others do have choices and the airport needs to address that.

[FFMAN]

[QUOTE=OzzyOzBorn;10402845]I departed MAN T3 for LHR on a BA Shuttle on the morning of 26th February, just hours before FFMAN posted his adverse comments about security there. I encountered no queue to speak of. No shouting. Staff were courteous. /QUOTE].

Wait a minute Ozzy, I can't let you get away with that.
Maybe instead of actually reading my post you read what you wanted to read in to it?
Where did I say there were huge queues? Where did I say there was shouting? Where did I say the staff were not courteous?
I was simply warning fellow travellers (including you!) of the need (Manchester only rules) to take out laptop chargers and put them in the tray - totally pointlessly of course. i thought that if people were prepared then it might save them a bit of time in the queue.
But then you've been to every airport on earth in the last 6 months and therefore know everything - so no point telling you. I think I have met you ...or someone like you. Most people have.
Plus if you had read my previous comments on security you might have noticed that I don't even give MAN the accolade of 'most shouty airport' - that usually goes to the main US gateway airports.

What I don't like about Manchester security (and I think this is pretty unique) is the implied threat to severely delay you if your bags gets pulled - whether it's your fault of the fault of a novice screen reader not being savvy enough to know what they've seen. I suspect this threat is an intentional policy of intimidation. Security is supposed to be a service to the customers of the airlines that are the customers of the airport. We are not supposed to be the enemy as it often feels at MAN.

Manchester has it's issues for sure - it's a pretty terrible passenger experience all round. Others describe it well and it's the airport I recognize rather than the rose tinted view you have presented. We have to to take account of the time of day too; at some times of the day it's bearable, other times unbearable - are you sure you're not referencing Manchester NH?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

My colleagues that visit from Belfast always travel back in the evening from T3

Tell your colleagues to travel with an airline that doesn’t use T3, there are other options.

[OzzyOzBorn]

[QUOTE=OzzyOzBorn;10402845]I departed MAN T3 for LHR on a BA Shuttle on the morning of 26th February, just hours before FFMAN posted his adverse comments about security there. I encountered no queue to speak of. No shouting. Staff were courteous. /QUOTE].

Wait a minute Ozzy, I can't let you get away with that.
Maybe instead of actually reading my post you read what you wanted to read in to it?
Where did I say there were huge queues? Where did I say there was shouting? Where did I say the staff were not courteous?
I was simply warning fellow travellers (including you!) of the need (Manchester only rules) to take out laptop chargers and put them in the tray - totally pointlessly of course. i thought that if people were prepared then it might save them a bit of time in the queue.
But then you've been to every airport on earth in the last 6 months and therefore know everything - so no point telling you. I think I have met you ...or someone like you. Most people have.
Plus if you had read my previous comments on security you might have noticed that I don't even give MAN the accolade of 'most shouty airport' - that usually goes to the main US gateway airports.

What I don't like about Manchester security (and I think this is pretty unique) is the implied threat to severely delay you if your bags gets pulled - whether it's your fault of the fault of a novice screen reader not being savvy enough to know what they've seen. I suspect this threat is an intentional policy of intimidation. Security is supposed to be a service to the customers of the airlines that are the customers of the airport. We are not supposed to be the enemy as it often feels at MAN.

Manchester has it's issues for sure - it's a pretty terrible passenger experience all round. Others describe it well and it's the airport I recognize rather than the rose tinted view you have presented. We have to to take account of the time of day too; at some times of the day it's bearable, other times unbearable - are you sure you're not referencing Manchester NH?

Well YES. I did read your post. But I also read all those which followed it. Did you? All the points I addressed were raised. You appear to be under the misapprehension that my reply was intended for you alone.

I have not claimed to have "used every airport in the world in the last 6 months". Such hyperbole does you no credit. But the 451 I have travelled through (yes, including Manchester NH!) represent a good sample size with which to compare MAN. I stated that I'd place MAN in the top 25% of those for user experience, but clearly that "rose tinted" assessment is something you're not prepared to contemplate. No, "rose tinted" would be claiming top 10. Seriously, if you genuinely believe that MAN is "a pretty terrible passenger experience all round" then I have to say that you can't have travelled much. Perhaps MAN is the worst except for most of the others?!!!

By the way, thanks for informing us that major airports experience peak periods and quiet periods. Who knew? If only I'd taken that into account!

So you have met "someone like me" ... hmmm, what a strange thing to write. Well, maybe you learned a bit about how the world really works in the process.

Actually, I do think it is sad that this thread has degenerated into a tight cabal of whingeing drama queens who harass anybody who doesn't instantly acknowledge that MAN is one of the worst airports in the world. Upto a couple of years back, this site used to be the 'go to' resource for up to date info on airports like MAN. But most of the informative posters seem to have given up. Apologies to rare exceptions such as Scottie Dog and Roverman. What went wrong? How did the whingers get to dominate the narrative on here? Such a shame.

[MARK9263]

God, this is boring...

[chaps1954]

Only a month until first stage of TP opens with pier 1 becoming operational, Brussels Airlines and Eurowings transfer to T2 from
end of April and Jet2 commence second part of their move
United start their upgrade to B767 with 300s in winter and 400s in summer, Turkish Airlines are putting A330 on afternoon flight 3 days
a week from 2nd April to 26th October ( Tu, Th and Sa)
Just a few things to wet your appetite for what promises to be a busy year.

[DomyDom]

Only a month until first stage of TP opens with pier 1 becoming operational, Brussels Airlines and Eurowings transfer to to T2 from
end of April and Jet2 commence second part of their move
United start their upgrade to B767 with 300s in winter and 400s in summer, Turkish Airlines are putting A330 on afternoon flight 3 days
a week from 2nd April to 26th October
Just a few things to wet your appetite for what promises to be a busy year.
Thanks for posting this update chaps1954.

[Betablockeruk]

Only a month until first stage of TP opens with pier 1 becoming operational, Brussels Airlines and Eurowings transfer to T2 from
end of April and Jet2 commence second part of their move
United start their upgrade to B767 with 300s in winter and 400s in summer, Turkish Airlines are putting A330 on afternoon flight 3 days
a week from 2nd April to 26th October ( Tu, Th and Sa)
Just a few things to wet your appetite for what promises to be a busy year.

Exciting times, although waiting for the 1st "I cant see what's on stand 105 complaint"
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/595x689/t2x_05216ef18e11746f0612a43946e9a51d24b0a804.jpg

[chaps1954]

Ha Ha yes I agree.

[Scottie Dog]

Do I get a more powerful set of binoculars or will MAG supply NATS with CCTV as they already do for T3? 🙄🙄

[eggc]

Lookin good and nearly there...

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x640/53204888_2341334399234874_3737964381929996288_n_90a3287b6871 8d9ad456e875aeb2c8ac04df8437.jpg

[Little G73]

Run Manch as a remote tower from Swanwick. Perfect all round views. No probs with blind stands

[ZOOKER]

Multilateration will resolve the visibility issues I believe, but hey Little G, don't give them ideas!

Actually, you don't need to use Swanwick. MAG employ their own ATCOs at EGNX, so they could ditch NATS and run 'CC, 'NX and 'SS from any of those sites using RTwr technology.

According to at least one of their managers, the evolution of that technology is something they're watching closely.

[virginblue]

What facilities will be available in Pier 1? Just gates or also a food outlet and/or a newsagent? Or will the masses be corralled in the central departure lounge until the very last minute?

[Scottie Dog]

I've not seen any facilities in photos posted of the pier. I would expect passengers to move to the gate when boarding is anticipated.

[MANworker]

There will be no facilities in the new pier, the plan is for pax to remain in the main terminal until the aircraft is almost ready for boarding. There are also limited amount of toilets in the pier, and the arrivals level has even fewer toilets. Looks good inside, some issues are arising with the trials ongoing, and are trying to be resolved but I’m not convinced anything can be done at this point. It’ll be an interesting first few days to see what happens, can’t wait for the first complaint about it being too far or too big

[Council Van]

There are also limited amount of toilets in the pier,
It is likely to a bare minimum of a hour from the flight being called to climbing through 10'000ft the earliest point at which I would consider switching the seat belt signs off.

[ZOOKER]

A very valid point Council Van, and if pax in the main terminal for longer there will be more time to drink water/tea/coffee/small sherries etc.
Eleven aircraft stands means well in excess of 1,100 people, with limited toilet facilities.

[Curious Pax]

Not a big surprise that they want to encourage people to stay in the main terminal area for as long as possible so they can spend their holiday cash in the shops/bars etc. However in the early days before the T2X extension opens it could be a bit of an issue with the long walk from terminal to gate.

[Scottie Dog]

Here is the latest update on the MAN-TP programme,. courtesy of Manchester Airport - PlaneTalk Issue #80

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1315x741/screenshot_250__936d8f25e3861307955a22b9f633c9f6b14cbcb0.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1042x736/screenshot_251__0cbe592cfa2c644e009ed8b54e8e20fcd5bb0a38.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1307x729/screenshot_252__5e6f5ca4df11456d343004a52b301fcdbc45aae9.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1177x648/screenshot_254__4f97b4cffeba3a32c39c82efcf55e8a8b479db90.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1309x741/screenshot_255__00acecc4bd50cbc79fadaaf4314a16034940bfd6.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1311x737/screenshot_256__c7cb5c7e2a6bba8a906ad0adf16c9bcb377bf37a.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1308x735/screenshot_257__72dba3e121c5c66e6812fd92aef1392c29ffc43a.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1314x734/screenshot_258__90902736cfc1d92c053c8830b7092990c2c96539.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1301x737/screenshot_259__f6d6c7e79f72053280fd1031c8c5ff655a64ed08.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1306x730/screenshot_260__3c56dcf1c075c9e3a39182e787787007bfdeb21f.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1306x737/screenshot_261__862c59b51d7083fd9fb39fa31502131bd2567f96.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1262x706/screenshot_262__ff5156c257a2823d7eda17df1226d9b3e13da4fe.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1190x637/screenshot_263__00892dffdc1057d3831adf5552ee4c2f3ed095b0.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1313x730/screenshot_264__77d78ab875508254cbd0cd7287a946156a83514c.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1207x634/screenshot_265__4bea23dde073bc92461b7272a943b15c5803892d.png

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - January 2019

Introduction
Back in September 2015 I decided that I should start to correlate statistics for Manchester and use 2005 as a reference point for historical data. My file now consists of 14 years of monthly figures and 484 destinations that have been served from Manchester over that period.

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

Langkawi came online in January 2019 with 1,469 cruise passengers. U-Tapoa in Thailand appears for the first time with 1,155 charter passengers and Murcia International shows 2,124 scheduled passengers - Murcia San Javier saw its figures drop from 4,861 to 2,336 and Murcia as a whole had a reduction of 401 passenger.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)

Amsterdam - 1,041,195 passengers
Dubai - This route has now dropped out of the target figure to be included.

No domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for January.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 1,786,032 +6.9%
Annual Total - 24,784,468 +2.01%
Moving Annual Total - 28,417,078 +2.07%

Monthly Movements - 13,645 +0.79%
Annual Movements - 173,322 -0.84%
Moving Annual Movements - 201,348 -0.93%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://i.ibb.co/N18bWyB/Screenshot-245.png

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.
https://i.ibb.co/5MLzKhm/Screenshot-246.png

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
https://i.ibb.co/frckdpD/Screenshot-247.png

Comparison of top 25 destinations - January 2009 versus January 2019
https://i.ibb.co/jJX0YDg/Screenshot-248.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://i.ibb.co/mBwjGYw/Screenshot-249.png

CAA statistics for January are provisional.

[rkenyon]

It is likely to a bare minimum of a hour from the flight being called to climbing through 10'000ft the earliest point at which I would consider switching the seat belt signs off.

Then it's a good job there are toilets on the plane that are available before pushback.

[pholling]

There will be no facilities in the new pier, the plan is for pax to remain in the main terminal until the aircraft is almost ready for boarding. There are also limited amount of toilets in the pier, and the arrivals level has even fewer toilets. Looks good inside, some issues are arising with the trials ongoing, and are trying to be resolved but I’m not convinced anything can be done at this point. It’ll be an interesting first few days to see what happens, can’t wait for the first complaint about it being too far or too big

There are two toilet blocks on each level. Do we know how many stalls/urinals are provide in each? The arrivals one can be smaller as people are not going to be waiting around. The nice thing is that there are water fountains on the pier. Something that doesn't exist that close to gates today.

Can you share what some of the "issues" are?

[Scottie Dog]

According to OAN 23/2019 the hydrants on T2 are shut at night whilst fuel mains to Pier 1 are connected however fuel is available on remote stands.

Do you have a source for your rather broad statement?

[Scottie Dog]

Brief summary of February stats (from a very bumpy Cumbrian bus)

Movements - 13,326 +1.69%
Passengers - 1,798,625 +6.97%
Inc transits - 1,805,164 +7.05%

Moving annual figures:
Movements - 201,569 -0.70%
Passengers - 28,502,330 +2.50%
Inc transits - 28,590,075 +2.44%

Edited to reflex correct monthly passenger percentage increase.

[virginblue]

Brief summary of February stats (from a very bumpy Cumbrian bus)

Movements - 13,326 +1.69%
Passengers - 1,798,625 +7.97%
Inc transits - 1,805,164 +7.05%


Pardon my ignorance - what are "transits" in that context as the figures looks ridiculously low? (200 per day)

[160to4DME]

I note Jet Airways creeping into the charts.

It concerns me to read in Flight Global today that out of their fleet of 96 aircraft, they now have 27 grounded & in storage due to non-payment of leases.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jet-airways-groundings-rise-to-25-aircraft-456322/?cmpid=NLC%7CFGFG%7CFGFIN-2019-0305-GLOB&sfid=701200000000taAh

[Scottie Dog]

Managers at shell and north air told by MAG to source 40 0000 litre bowsers ASAP as hydrant systems will not be ready by 1 April. I am employed by one of these companies.

Ooops! I do hope it's the only problem.

Many thanks for the update.

[Scottie Dog]

Pardon my ignorance - what are "transits" in that context as the figures looks ridiculously low? (200 per day)

Think in terms of passengers on the SQ flights travelling through from SIN to IAH, and vice versa. These passengers "transit" Manchester. There use to be some passengers with PK in the days when their JFK flight routed through MAN, but I cannot immediately think of many other routes.

I hope that helps.

[easydan319]

easyJet new routes on sale tomorrow:

MAN - Bari (summer only Wednesdays and Saturdays)
MAN - Kalamata (summer only Tuesdays and Saturdays)
MAN - Jerez (year round Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday)
MAN - Nice (year round Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday)

3 extra flights a week from MAN to BFS on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday and 1 extra flight a week from MAN to BUD on Wednesday.

[Scottie Dog]

OPERATIONAL ADVICE NOTICE (OAN)
OAN 25 / 2019 – RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS (SUMMER 2019)
OAN REF:- 25/2019 DATE OF ISSUE:- 06/03/19 EFFECTIVE DATE:- 01/04/19 EXPIRY:- 27/10/19
1.0 SUMMARY
1.1 During the summerseason dual-runway operating hours will revert to seasonal summer operating hours.
2.0 PROGRAMME
2.1 Commencing 06:15 Monday 1
st April 2019 for the summer season.
3.0 DUAL RUNWAY OPERATING HOURS
3.1 All times quoted in this Operational Advice Notice are local.
3.2 Monday to Friday (inclusive)
3.2.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:15hrs - 20:00hrs. Runway 05L/23R will be
in operation as a single runway at all other times.
3.3 Saturday
3.3.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:15hrs - 16:00hrs. Runway 05L/23R will be
in operation as a single runway at all other times.
3.4 Sunday
3.4.1 Runway 05L/23R and 05R/23L will be in operation between 06:15hrs - 09:30hrs & 13:00hrs – 20:00hrs.
Runway 05L/23R will be in operation as a single runway at all other times.
4.0 RESCUE & FIRE-FIGHTING SERVICE CATEGORY (RFFS)
4.1 RFFS Category 10 will be provided at all times.
5.0 PROMULGATION OF INFORMATION
5.1 A NOTAM will be issued promulgating the runway operating hours.

[johnnychips]

Or look three posts up.

[Plane mad 134]

Sorry my mistake, deleted.

[DomyDom]

easyJet new routes on sale tomorrow:

MAN - Bari (summer only Wednesdays and Saturdays)
MAN - Kalamata (summer only Tuesdays and Saturdays)
MAN - Jerez (year round Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday)
MAN - Nice (year round Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday)

3 extra flights a week from MAN to BFS on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday and 1 extra flight a week from MAN to BUD on Wednesday.

Excellent news easydan319. Exiting new destinations as well. Good to see Spain's Costa de Luz and southern Italy being opened up further. as well as more choice to Nice and Greece. Time to update travel plans and flex the credit card again I think.

[Aksai Oiler]

Can you pls confirm XRY is year round? I understood it was August for three months only, if it’s year round, that would be excellent

[chaps1954]

Everything I have read says all year on several forums

[NRU74]

easydan,
Thanks for the Man info- much appreciated.
Rgds,
NRU74

[DomyDom]

easydan,
Thanks for the Man info- much appreciated.
Rgds,
NRU74
I second that. Thanks for the info easydan. Great to get some new route news. Kind regards, DomyDom.

[pilot9250]

I'm sorry but that's simply not true. The experience at MAN does put people off, particularly at T3 where regional flights compete with other modes and the MAN issues are at there worst.

For example, i've been to Glasgow a number of times recently. My instinct is to fly and the cost is comparable to the train if not better. I did fly once and my experience was as follows - get train to airport, fine. Walk to T3 from station, ok but outside. Security - shouty, aggressive, long queues, don't look at your phone! get everything out, use more trays. Unpleasant. Get into Terminal - Nowhere to sit, barely anywhere to stand, queues at all of the bars and shops. Unpleasant.

So i got the train most of the time and FlyBe missed out on the money i wanted to give them.

For what it's worth, there were no queues for security at GLA on the way back, nor were there queues when i flew to Glasgow from London City recently or back from Belfast City either. At all three airports i carried my same work gear and at all three i was able to use fewer trays and was not shouted at.

Lets also not forget that many of MAN's passengers will have a choice of airports depending on where they are going. That could be LPL, BHX or even LHR for some destinations.

MAN (T3) puts people off and the airport need to address it.

I would agree that that if the airport objective were to prevent people from choosing a train to Glasgow they may have failed.

I would only offer that killing the train service to Glasgow need not and should be a primary measure.

Manchester is about 10th in the world on overall destinations served, and the number deliverable effectively by rail is close to zero.

If the train works better for you, then use it.

Please consider that may be no more a failure for the airport than the success of Billy's Bionic Burger Bar in Bury may be a failure for McDonalds.

[easydan319]

Can you pls confirm XRY is year round? I understood it was August for three months only, if it’s year round, that would be excellent

Flights have been advertised as year round but all routes are currently only bookable until late October. November 19 - March 20 are due to be released by April 19.

[BHX5DME]

maybe still working in progress but Ryanair appear to have cut MAN-BFS from twice daily to twice weekly from W19/20
Big loss of seats

[pholling]

maybe still working in progress but Ryanair appear to have cut MAN-BFS from twice daily to twice weekly from W19/20
Big loss of seats

????

Wonder why they would do that? Given the EZY and BE routing on the MAN-Belfast sector 2x weekly would be just about useless, I can't imagine that would be the best use of that aircraft.

[BHX5DME]

????

Wonder why they would do that? Given the EZY and BE routing on the MAN-Belfast sector 2x weekly would be just about useless, I can't imagine that would be the best use of that aircraft.


As I say I think it is still work in progress as BFS-STN also showing at just 2 per week

[pholling]

As I say I think it is still work in progress as BFS-STN also showing at just 2 per week

The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47481843) article on it seems to indicate that both MAN and STN are going to 2x weekly. According to the thread on the BFS forum it looks like 1 aircraft based at BFS in W19/20. I will admit I am scratching my head at this. At least base the sole remaining A/C out of other airports and save the fixed costs.

Am I correct in understanding that the BFS-MAN flights are Friday and Sunday This sounds like they are aiming for the construction and football traffic. What are the timings?

[Scottie Dog]

If that is true then surely heads should roll? Where has checking and double checking gone wrong? Why has it taken until now for any errors to have been found?
The only problem with rolling heads is that they become an H&S issue as you're likely to trip over them.

[ZOOKER]

When T2 was originally built in the early 1990s, I think there was a plan for a 'pier' or similar structure, on the grass between T2 and the cargo village, where the remote stands are. I seem to remember talk of an underground walkway/travellator under the apron to access said structure. Wasn't it shelved because of 'clearance issues'?

[MANworker]

If that is true then surely heads should roll? Where has checking and double checking gone wrong? Why has it taken until now for any errors to have been found?
The only problem with rolling heads is that they become an H&S issue as you're likely to trip over them.

I believe they’re working quickly as possible to rectify as much as they can prior to 1st April, no doubt there will be issues arising as there always are in projects such as these. To be fair to MAG they’ve realised the mistakes they’ve made which have led to this point and are now doing everything they can to ensure that they don’t happen again. hopefully as I said those issues mentioned before don’t become too major of an issue when live flights begin from the pier

[Scottie Dog]

That's a little more reassuring.

[ZOOKER]

If the original design with the remote pier structure had been built, I wonder if the present works would be taking place? EGLL has ditched 'cul-de-sacs' in favour of a toast-rack' design at T5, and other airports have done the same. Yet EGCC are happy building more cul-de-sacs.

[pholling]

If the original design with the remote pier structure had been built, I wonder if the present works would be taking place? EGLL has ditched 'cul-de-sacs' in favour of a toast-rack' design at T5, and other airports have done the same. Yet EGCC are happy building more cul-de-sacs.

It really all depends on what the intended use of the airport is, how your site is laid out and a number of other factors. There are plenty of airports that are still building piers, where the use case and land constraints are appropriate. The linear, "Toast-rack" concourse idea came about in the 1970s, primarily for airports where much of your traffic would not interface with the kerb, e.g. connecting traffic. For those airports with lots of kerb interface (O&D) circular and linear terminals were the rage. These fell out of fashion with the rise of security check-points. However, the toast-rack really only makes sense with lots of connecting traffic that doesn't need to flow through the main terminal, plus adequate and appropriate space to build it in. The quintessential toast-rack design is ATL, which now has 6 parallel concourses situated perpendicular to and between the parallel runway complexes; DEN is the same concept but scaled up a lot to take advantage of copious land. LHR is substantially the same runway layout (now) so this can make a lot of sense. Even though ATL stuck with the original concept for over 20 years it was the rise of O&D, especially O&D international traffic plus layout constraints that broke the plan. In 1996 ATL opened a new international concourse (E). However, all arriving passengers had to be rescreened and mixed with connecting passengers. When the Maynard Jackson Terminal and concourse F were build they couldn't keep the toast rack structure, and future expansions to the international terminal are likely to have widely spaced piers.

MAN's runway layout and apron space is completely different from that of ATL, DEN, LHR, etc. As such it isn't nearly as efficient to use the toast-rack configuration. Further, unless they were to complete reconfigure the whole land-side/air-side interface you couldn't efficiently create a terminal layout similar to that use in DTW. As such piers, with blind alleys (they are not true cul-de-sacs as they don't have the bulb at the end) can be the most efficient use of the space. The key is that you don't block the alley with a single aircraft pushing back. This requires more widely spaced alleys and multiple taxi-lanes. A good example of this kind of layout is PHL where the new construction, A-west, and concourse F are spaced far enough apart from A-east and Concourse E respectively to allow for dual taxi-lanes. MAN is somewhere in between a single and duel taxi-lane concept, where there are definitely dual lanes in some alleys for Code C aircraft, but single lanes for Code D+ aircraft. The original satellite pier concept for T2 had a very narrow pier in what is the grass strip. This would not have been wide enough to accommodate the necessary flows of passengers and to widen it would have created effective blind alleys for larger aircraft as the taxi-lanes in certain areas would have been limited to Code C. Of course this could have been solved by greatly expanding the ramp footprint, but the layout would have still be less efficient than widely space piers.

[ZOOKER]

pholling,

Many thanks indeed for an interesting and informative reply.

[MANFOD]

Pholling, Thanks for your comments. You are evidently very interested and knowledgeable on this subject. Have you any views on the issues mentioned by MANworker regarding Pier 1 of the TP? For the layman, how significant are they and which can be fairly readily corrected, or do MAN have to just work round what they now have?

[Scottie Dog]

PlaneTalk Issue 81 - courtesy of the Manchester Airport Transformation Programme team


https://i.ibb.co/RBjQcWj/Screenshot-267.png

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https://i.ibb.co/4gmFBv1/Screenshot-280.png

https://i.ibb.co/6bNsTz1/Screenshot-283.png

[True Blue]

Arrived in Manchester airport on Wednesday afternoon, T3. What I did notice on the walk from T3 to the train station was the number of buckets sitting to catch water leaking through the roof. Most of the moving walkway was out of service, why? Essential maintenance said the signs, but not one maintenance worker to be seen.

I departed again Thursday afternoon. Got to security, not that many in front of me. Guy at the front of security coming down the line, frequently, telling us to make sure we had all out of our bags as they were getting a lot of rejections and it would take at least 40 minutes for it to be checked at the other side of security. 40 minutes, this in the middle of March. What would that not be like at the height of the season? They were wanting everything out, including hair straighteners etc? First time I have heard that requirement. It took a long time to even get to the scanners as passengers were taking so long to get everything out that was needed, plus there was a shortage of trays as so many were waiting to be checked.

Into the waiting area/terminal, what a depressing place. Few seats, most coffee shops/bars etc busy as people just go in there and sit. Is there no quality places in there to eat at all?

Gate called, gate 142 in think. Anyway, we had to go through scanners to check our photographs. I think there were 2 scanners, then one for manual checking. So they call 4 flights at once, several hundred pax trying to get through very few scanners. System not working for many of them, although for many, it was their own fault as they were not even looking up. Maybe they didn't know what to do, although some can never learn. Then we had quite a number seem to have gone through the scanners to then realise they were at the wrong gates. They were trying to get back out, but no, you just can't walk back out. More chaos as they were trying to get out against those trying to come in but needed manual checking. The people who design these systems and procedures seem to lack all common sense, but a lot of this is driven by cost cutting, airports don't want to pay for enough/any staff to make things run smoothly. They should be given their P45's for sheer stupidy.

To summarise my experience, too many items not working like lifts/walkways. That has to be down to no maintenance, there were too many for it to be coincidence. Manchester Airport is a collection of buildings just thrown together, moving from T3 to the train station we were in/out, up and down, just a nonsense. Security is a joke and not fit for purpose. Boarding experience, just awful.

Manchester Airport is a complete disgrace, I will only use it if I have to, but it will be a last resort.

[chaps1954]

There is no such thing as a quiet period in T3 now as it is busy all the time. It really is too small and not what it was designed for, Ryanair with large loads
simply overload with loads that are more than twice the size it was built for i:e BA european and domestic where you were not expecting anything more than
about 80 pax or so. There will be a few changes with the like of Brussels Airlines moving out at end of April and maybe KLM/AF in the future to tie in with Virgin

[The96er]

There is no such thing as a quiet period in T3 now as it is busy all the time. It really is too small and not what it was designed for, Ryanair with large loads
simply overload with loads that are more than twice the size it was built for i:e BA european and domestic where you were not expecting anything more than
about 80 pax or so. There will be a few changes with the like of Brussels Airlines moving out at end of April and maybe KLM/AF in the future to tie in with Virgin

Brussels Airlines moved out several years ago, and AF/KL are unlikely to move out anytime soon due to the tied AF/BE CDG operation. Vueling on the other hand really do not need to be in there.

[ManchesterUK]

Hello - does anyone know when the multi story carpark will be out of use as they begin taking it down? I usually spend a little time there when I drop friends and family off at the airport, so would be great to know how long is left for it. Many thanks in advance.

[Scottie Dog]

Erm silly question time, but which car park are you talking about?

[ManchesterUK]

It's the Terminal 1 Multi Storey, which looks directly onto the T2 apron (apologies - should have been more specific earlier).

[pholling]

It's the Terminal 1 Multi Storey, which looks directly onto the T2 apron (apologies - should have been more specific earlier).


I don't think the date for the demolition of T1 has been definitively determined. It will be some time after the completion of the T2 remodel as until that happens there is not enough landslide capacity to replace T1. So you have another 3-4 years at least.

[ManchesterUK]

Thanks Pholling. Appreciate it.

[Betablockeruk]

Ouch! Wonder who will step in , having seen the loads?


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/881804350431121408/9YbbUsiR_bigger.jpgAirlineroute‏ @Airlineroute (https://twitter.com/Airlineroute)
FollowingFollowing @Airlineroute

Jet Airways has closed reservation for Mumbai – Manchester service for flights on/after 23MAR19

[BHX5DME]

Ouch! Wonder who will step in , having seen the loads?

Not really a surprise being in mind the state of Jet Airways

[VickersVicount]

was a surprise it got off the ground in the first place

[BHX5DME]

Jet Airways grounds planes as crisis grows http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47626409

[sinbad73]

Jet Airways grounds planes as crisis grows http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47626409



From the above article:

Jet Airways has been forced to ground planes due to its financial woes.

It has more than 100 aircraft in its fleet, and flies on 600 domestic and 380 international routes.

Really?!

[Curious Pax]

One out one in - don’t think it’s been reported previously that Pegasus have 5x weekly to Istanbul-SAW on sale, starting from 1st July. IIRC they’ve only been mentioned in terms of slots applied for on this route thus far.

[FFMAN]

Ouch! Wonder who will step in , having seen the loads?

Virgin? When they get their planes back.
Watch loads soften on their ATL and JFK flights as a direct result of this. They carried a lot of Indian connectors

Also - just an observation: aren't Etihad lousy at picking airline partners?

[Betablockeruk]

NZ code-share on VS MAN-LAX this summer.

I can never work out if a code-share is intended to be a prelude to a service. Now that would be excellent!

[Scottie Dog]

Hello - does anyone know when the multi story carpark will be out of use as they begin taking it down? I usually spend a little time there when I drop friends and family off at the airport, so would be great to know how long is left for it. Many thanks in advance.

I spoke to airport staff who are involved in the MANTP project and they are not aware, as far as they would say, that there are any plans at present to demolish Terminal 1 multi-storey.

[pholling]

I spoke to airport staff who are involved in the MANTP project and they are not aware, as far as they would say, that there are any plans at present to demolish Terminal 1 multi-storey.

That would make sense since everything beyond T2X and Piers 2 & 3 is just in the proposed stage. However, if T1 is demolished the multi-storey will have to come down too.

[Curious Pax]

That would make sense since everything beyond T2X and Piers 2 & 3 is just in the proposed stage. However, if T1 is demolished the multi-storey will have to come down too.

It’s likely for sure, but not a given as the car park is a separate structure that over the years has acquired various ramps etc connecting it to the terminal. As such with some work it could be retained even if the terminal was flattened. However whether that would be deemed cost effective compared to levelling the whole area would depend partly on what the airport eventually decides to do with the current T1 footprint.

[Scottie Dog]

The original question by ManchesterUK was with regards to whether the multi-storey car park was to be demolished in the near future and I believe that we agree that that will not happen in the near future. Imagine the problems with regard to gaining terminal access whilst any demolition was taking place!

Now we have the secondary question of "if and when" Terminal 1 may be either totally revamped or, preferably, removed. Whilst we understand that the airport's Master plan does not provide for the terminal being retained in the long-term, I suspect if will still be around for maybe as long as the next 10 years.

[Jetaway]

The cargo sheds need relocating south side to free up termianl space along with the fuel farm it may be a bit expensive but in the long run it would be worth it. As well it should be noted that whilst the new pier does look very nice from the inside although its blatently obvious where corners have been cut and that no real technological innovations have been used. The outside is dissapointing, this is a once in a generation project and the extra money should of been spent on the asthetics of the terminal.

[The96er]

The outside is disappointing, this is a once in a generation project and the extra money should of been spent on the aesthetics of the terminal.

I've been highlighting this from very early on in the build when it was becoming plainly obvious that they were cheapening the whole project. Unfortunately, the MAN fan boys seem ignorant to this and are quick to defend the disappointing build.

[chaps1954]

You can forget moving the cargo are south of runways for several reasons, southside is in Cheshire and they are not too keen on Manchester building in Cheshire, most of the cargo comes off scheduled flights and connects to other flights or lorries to be shipped out and would take a huge belt of land on the wrong side of the airport and cause a lot of lorry transport way from the motorway which at present is only a very short distance
Most of the reports I have seen seem to like the new pier so I will wait to see the real reports in April

[ZOOKER]

When you consider the superb look of the T1 southern front, Terminal 2 and the BAMA terminal from the 1990s, this new bit certainly looks as though it was thrown up on the cheap. The new finger looks like part of Sellafield, a steelworks, IKEA, or even a young offenders centre. The grey colour is hardly pleasing on the eye.

[Suzeman]

It’s likely for sure, but not a given as the car park is a separate structure that over the years has acquired various ramps etc connecting it to the terminal.

T1 MSCP is a separate structure constructed in the early 70s and is joined to the original 1962 terminal by ramps etc. However the basic structure of a car park was modified before construction to contain what are now the T1 check in hall, baggage claim and arrivals hall within the structure. So the two buildings are inextricably interlinked.

And for the reasons outlined by Chaps 1954, there is no chance of the cargo centre (or any other major development) going southside into Cheshire.

The line of development to the west of the airport was set by the fuel farm construction first; this was adjacent to the old west side hangars. The FLS hangar and Cargo Centre came later in the only area at the time which could be developed easily in terms of planning permissions and cost. There were no Master Plans to speak of in those days.

[LFC22]

Just seen this floating around around online, it is an official drawing from the airport

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x1280/thumbnail_screenshot_20190329_210104_instagram_896d71f483573 6da038362093b04b1606f21b5bf.jpg

[Curious Pax]

That seems to suggest the remote parking west of the new Pier 1 will also open in April - unlikely as it is stil a landslide car park.

[AndrewH52]

It also seems to confirm my fears that the new layout won’t add any more capacity airside in terms of stands. If anything they could end up with less stand capacity at peak times than they have now?

[mufc4evr]

How when they are in effect tripling the number of contact stands for Terminal 2 by going from 1 to 3 piers by 2024? Less traffic for remote bussing so less congestion in the remote bussing areas.

Baffling

​​​​​​

[tokyostich]

With Brussels Airlines and Eurowings moving to T2 on 30th April, I was wondering if anyone knows if/when the rest of the Lufthansa group plan on following them down to T2. The Lufthansa group are handled by Dnata, while Brussels and Eurowings are done by Swissport, and I don't think Dnata have Ops in T2, so would that mean no Lufthansa in T2 anytime soon until Emirates are ready to move to T2 too?

[strawberry Ribena]

With Brussels Airlines and Eurowings moving to T2 on 30th April, I was wondering if anyone knows if/when the rest of the Lufthansa group plan on following them down to T2. The Lufthansa group are handled by Dnata, while Brussels and Eurowings are done by Swissport, and I don't think Dnata have Ops in T2, so would that mean no Lufthansa in T2 anytime soon until Emirates are ready to move to T2 too?


cathay pacific are t2...

[EZYMAN]

With Brussels Airlines and Eurowings moving to T2 on 30th April, I was wondering if anyone knows if/when the rest of the Lufthansa group plan on following them down to T2. The Lufthansa group are handled by Dnata, while Brussels and Eurowings are done by Swissport, and I don't think Dnata have Ops in T2, so would that mean no Lufthansa in T2 anytime soon until Emirates are ready to move to T2 too?


Brussels and Eurowings won’t be with a Swissport for much longer, believe they’ve lost it. Along with Qatar who I believe may be going to Dnata, which will leave Dnata with Cathay and Qatar over in T2.

[MAN777]

Qatar to DNATA !!

Are you sure about that, I thought DNATA is UAE owned ? And as they arent speaking to Qatar is this likely ?

[strawberry Ribena]

Qatar to DNATA !!

Are you sure about that, I thought DNATA is UAE owned ? And as they arent speaking to Qatar is this likely ?

qatar are with dnata at LHR but when they started LGW they didn’t even consider dnata. Doubt very much they’ll go to dnata at man.

[tokyostich]

So is there any chance Lufthansa group will be moving to T2?

[EZYMAN]

qatar are with dnata at LHR but when they started LGW they didn’t even consider dnata. Doubt very much they’ll go to dnata at man.

watch this space then 😉

[mufc4evr]

Qatar are in Dnata for cargo already. Have been the whole time Dnata have been here

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - February 2019

Introduction
Back in September 2015 I decided that I should start to correlate statistics for Manchester and use 2005 as a reference point for historical data. My file now consists of 14 years of monthly figures and 486 destinations that have been served from Manchester over that period.

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new destinations were served in February 2019.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)

Amsterdam - 1,043,325 passengers
Dubai - This route has now dropped out of the target figure to be included.

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for February.

Belfast City shows a false figure of 67, in 2018 the numbers were 20,674.
Inverness has failed to report any passengers, in 2018 they had 3,947 passengers

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics

Monthly passengers - 1,805,164 +7.05%
Annual Total - 3,591,196
Moving Annual Total - 28,590,075 +2.44%

Monthly Movements - 13,226 +1.69%
Annual Movements - 186,549
Moving Annual Movements - 201,569 -0.70%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://i.ibb.co/cX2y3Gw/Screenshot-293.png

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.
https://i.ibb.co/CttrCfH/Screenshot-294.png

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
https://i.ibb.co/HqPqwg7/Screenshot-295.png

Comparison of top 25 destinations - February 2009 versus February 2019
https://i.ibb.co/T8db2P7/Screenshot-296.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://i.ibb.co/MgDQcBy/Screenshot-297.png
The CAA figures for Belfast City are erroneous and those for Inverness are missing.

[Manchester Exile]

Video of the new pier available on the MEN website: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-new-pier-opens-16058379

Any news how day 1 of operations went?

[Suzeman]

Another piece in the MEN
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/opinion-andrew-cowan-manchester-airport-16072190

[Scottie Dog]

The last week has been pretty hectic so I make no apologies for the late posting of Issue #84 of PlaneTalk which is kindly supplied by the MANTP Project Team.

I have noticed that some of the images were included in last week's edition, but we'll put that down to overwork within the team as Pier One went live.

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https://i.ibb.co/qBnkd0Y/Screenshot-312.png

https://i.ibb.co/qWxx1sK/Screenshot-313.png

[spannersatcx]

Video of the new pier available on the MEN website: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-new-pier-opens-16058379

Any news how day 1 of operations went?
Aircraft don't fit, there was no fuel, airbridges don't fit, and more importantly nowhere to get refreshments!

[Scottie Dog]

That sounds pretty dire and, from somebody whose coments I respect, it does leave me concerned.
I'm not worried about the lack of catering, however the stand and airbridge problems you mention are inexcusable.

[BA318]

I've heard there were problems with VS 744 and Cathay Pacific planes at the pier yesterday with the jetways not fitting. I've also heard the pier is leaking. Is it a temporary structure? It looks very cheap.

[The96er]

I've also heard the pier is leaking. Is it a temporary structure? It looks very cheap.

The whole Airport leaks when it rains, so I at least they're consistent and yes, it is cheap, very very cheap.

[chaps1954]

And so does where I work and has done ever since it was built and extended , flat roofs always do
Just hope it doesn`t give way like CDG a few years ago and hasn`t taken 10 years plus to finish like Berlin
which even if they finish it still isn`t right

[The96er]

[QUOTE][ And so does where I work and has done ever since it was built and extended /QUOTE]

So you're saying we should just except mediocrity then ? . I'm sure in the year 2019 with modern construction techniques, the minor issue of water ingress could be prevented, flat roof or not.

[MANFOD]

I thought they had done trials with a VS 744 on the new pier, or was the problem on a different gate and air bridge?

Leaking roof? - oh heavens above. I try and be supportive of Manchester Airport so it was disappointing to read 'spanners' post and that by BA318.

Are the issues quick fixes?

[Adola69]

Looking on today from the OUTSIDE, it appeared to be chaotic for aircraft getting to or awaiting for stands. I saw Air Transat, TAP, Singapore, Lufthansa, SAS, waiting in excess of 15mins on taxiways. I do hope the airlines claim compensation for making the outbound flight late and the wastage of fuel. (so much for lessening carbon emissions).

Yet another example of MA's policy of Make Do. Before ANY of this re-development work started, they should have constructed spare apron space, so that as Terminal stands were de-commissioned for terminal work,
they had somewhere to park aircraft out of the way so as not to interfere with scheduled traffic movements. The old Hangar space near the Romper is an ideal spot. Both of those should have been flattened years ago, as they almost were ready to fall down by themselves.

As for the terminal extension, the new finger from T2 to the new pier looks very cheap and nasty. Perhaps constructed to align with that crap piece of construction that gets you from T1 lounge to pier B past the old Idlex tower, which has just about room for two people side by side.

How Emirates must laugh at such a piece of inept access. I've seen wider corridors in Olympic house.

MA are devoid of any Imagination or of producing a first class product anymore, it's always appears to be cheap cheap cheap. "Build it and they will come". " Build it cheaply and watch them leave "

I wonder how long it'll take the MA police to take this comment off the thread?

Much love,

Adola.

[LFC22]

We've all known for months how they've cut corners in this transformation program. The airport were even forced to give a statement disproving this, might I add in the least convincing manner possible. I had high hopes but ultimately, it's a cheap project with an extremely bland design ( dark grey? seriously?) Hope for their airports sake that they sort this mess out, last thing they want is to be annoying the likes of Virgin, Emirates and Singapore.

[easyflyer83]

I guess you have to be pragmatic. Ultimately, the airport, or any business, has to live by it's means. I'd love to extend my house with an additional wing and a granny flat at the bottom of the garden for guests. The thing is, I don't have the funds for it.

Now, the terminal extension or certainly the south side of it, doesn't look as good as i'd hoped. Floor to ceiling glazing would have looked good. The actual pier looks absolutely fine. It doesn't look cheap, the glass airbridges look the part and internally it looks like there is plenty of natural light and spacious. BKK, which I've transited many times looks very futuristic externally, internally it is very basic and looks cheap and tired in places. MAN was never going to be a glass palace, it simply doesn't have the funds to achieve that.

It's disappointing to hear about the leak, time will tell whether this is just an inevitable teething problem or a more fundamental issue. Theres nothing to suggest it's the latter yet.

Finally, it's irritating when you hear the comments "oh, Emirates won't stand for that" , "last thing they want to do is annoy Singapore" blah blah blah. Have you seen some of the airports they fly into ??? They will of course have their own stipulations of MAN but you will find that the some of the most demanding customers are the likes of easyJet, Jet 2 and Ryanair..... the airlines that use MAN a lot more than a few times a day.

I'm no Manchester Airport apologist, far from it, but some of you need to manage your expectations and also suspend judgement until more of the project is complete.

[chaps1954]

Even Parliament was leaking the other day

[Matty Rich 83]

Looking on today from the OUTSIDE, it appeared to be chaotic for aircraft getting to or awaiting for stands. I saw Air Transat, TAP, Singapore, Lufthansa, SAS, waiting in excess of 15mins on taxiways. I do hope the airlines claim compensation for making the outbound flight late and the wastage of fuel. (so much for lessening carbon emissions).

Yet another example of MA's policy of Make Do. Before ANY of this re-development work started, they should have constructed spare apron space, so that as Terminal stands were de-commissioned for terminal work,
they had somewhere to park aircraft out of the way so as not to interfere with scheduled traffic movements. The old Hangar space near the Romper is an ideal spot. Both of those should have been flattened years ago, as they almost were ready to fall down by themselves.

As for the terminal extension, the new finger from T2 to the new pier looks very cheap and nasty. Perhaps constructed to align with that crap piece of construction that gets you from T1 lounge to pier B past the old Idlex tower, which has just about room for two people side by side.

How Emirates must laugh at such a piece of inept access. I've seen wider corridors in Olympic house.

MA are devoid of any Imagination or of producing a first class product anymore, it's always appears to be cheap cheap cheap. "Build it and they will come". " Build it cheaply and watch them leave "

I wonder how long it'll take the MA police to take this comment off the thread?

Much love,

Adola.

Where were these aircraft positioned whilst waiting for their stands? There is a big project on-going with taxiway redevelopments at the moment and for the rest of this year, it’s inevitable that aircraft waiting to access T2 or pier C of T1 will have to wait near the tower for aircraft coming out of Pier C or T2.
In order to fix something or improve a process, you have to first make a mess.
The situation with aircraft holding is not ideal, especially from a passengers perspective if, for example, they happen to be relying on catching a train at a certain time, like myself when I use MAN. However, I would like to think MAG informed their airline customers long before this taxiway work commenced of possible delays during taxiing.
I know there is a NOTAM in place whilst all the works are taking place informing air crew of the possibility of extended waiting times on the airfield if aircraft arrive early due to stand availability.
MAN just doesn’t have enough space and in my view it was inevitable these type of issues were going to arise.

I look forward to the end of may when I fly from the new pier and also to 2020 and beyond, when we will see an improvement and more efficient pattern in aircraft parking spaces and movements.

[chaps1954]

I know the Singapore suffers with stands but it is partly due to always wanting the same stands
which can have effect if the flight is early and the aircraft departing off stand late which
does happen quite often as long haul flights quite often arrive an hour early, it also happens
at Gatwick and Heathrow and I`m sure BHX and LTN

[pabely]

It also happens
at Gatwick and Heathrow and I`m sure BHX and LTN
LH arriving early at LTN! Only the El Al I would think 😳

[chaps1954]

Didn`t mean just long haul as any delays or early arrivals can cause a problem but yes mainly long/mid haul
and I know Luton is very tight on stands as is Leeds to be honest

[ZOOKER]

QANTAS frequently ended up holding abeam the RVP/Engine-test facility. One morning it took it longer to reach the stand after landing than it did to reach DAYNE from the FIR Boundary.

[Scottie Dog]

QANTAS frequently ended up holding abeam the RVP/Engine-test facility. One morning it took it longer to reach the stand after landing than it did to reach DAYNE from the FIR Boundary.

By heck Zooker you're showing age! Was that when QF routed via LHR or via the continent? I well remember being offered a jump seat MAN/LHR but that must, if i recall correctly, have been 40 years ago at least.

[chaps1954]

They ran 1983 till 1994

Ian

[ZOOKER]

Thanks Ian, It was round about the early 1990s I think Scottie. Our rest-room looked out towards the 06 end. The Delta L1011 often got stuck there too.

[rkenyon]

Perhaps constructed to align with that crap piece of construction that gets you from T1 lounge to pier B past the old Idlex tower, which has just about room for two people side by side.


Yes, it's terrible that 30 feet or so. I was once held up for almost 3 seconds behind a family of 6 who were walking slowly.

[Adola69]

[QUOTE][Yes, it's terrible that 30 feet or so. I was once held up for almost 3 seconds behind a family of 6 who were walking slowly./QUOTE]

Oh what whit you posses? Be it 5 feet, thirty or 100 feet, it hardly tops out as a class piece of terminal infrastructure does it?

A.

[UnderASouthernSky]

Aircraft don't fit, there was no fuel, airbridges don't fit, and more importantly nowhere to get refreshments!

There was fuel on the opening day.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

No, but it is what it is and we have to get on with it. It’s only like that because of regulation changes preventing the mixing of inbound and outbound passengers. The same as the rest of the unwieldy routings often required to get from an aeroplane after disembarking.

[pwalhx]

[QUOTE][Yes, it's terrible that 30 feet or so. I was once held up for almost 3 seconds behind a family of 6 who were walking slowly./QUOTE]

Oh what whit you posses? Be it 5 feet, thirty or 100 feet, it hardly tops out as a class piece of terminal infrastructure does it?

A.
I must have walked that route 100's of times and I suspect like most never gave it's construction a second thought.

[eggc]

I believe the new pier cannot even have mobile catering as the pier does not have sprinkler system, so it has two vending machines instead. It also only has one toilet ( from the orginal 3 planned ) and that has only 2 mens urinals. The length of the walk from the terminal itself is gaining comments, but this can be the case at other large airports. Is MAG maybe biting of more that it can finacially chew with MAN and STN works proceeding at the same time, and the quality of the finished product being cut all the time ?

[Scottie Dog]

Actually there are 2 sets of toilets in the new pier - there being 3 urinals, if we must discuss details, in each.

[eggc]

I stand corrected if that is the case Scottie Dog, that's not as I was informed. I was more, shocked isnt the right word, but surprised, that a public space like that did not be required to have a sprinkler system. Its a long walk back for a proper coffee, so dont leave the terminal for the pier before you are amply fed and watered.

[ericlday]

pe ir is that where you go when amply watered.......

[eggc]

I type too fast for my own good ;)

[Seljuk22]

Pegasus launching 5 weekly flights to SAW in July

[Scottie Dog]

This week's update on the MANTP Project with Issue #85 of PlaneTalk which is kindly supplied by the MANTP Project Team.

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https://i.ibb.co/YXdKzHw/Screenshot-343.png

https://i.ibb.co/gJkdznf/Screenshot-344.png

https://i.ibb.co/6WPjnzx/Screenshot-345.png

https://i.ibb.co/bXyVrgh/Screenshot-346.png

https://i.ibb.co/DGNwpTJ/Screenshot-347.png

[MANFOD]

The No Div notam has been renewed / extended from today until 18th April.

[MANworker]

Hearing that virgin 747s are currently not permitted to use the new pier due to air bridge issues. Heard that the airbridges design means they’re very close to putting a hole in the wing root, hopefully it’ll be a quick fix they can do

[spannersatcx]

Tha A350 doesn’t fit either! Something to do with a slope! You couldn’t make this up!

[Betablockeruk]

Tha A350 doesn’t fit either! Something to do with a slope! You couldn’t make this up!

Actually, you could. It's called Brandenburg! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport) Hopefully, this isn't a sequel and will just be teething issues.

[MANFOD]

Tha A350 doesn’t fit either! Something to do with a slope! You couldn’t make this up!

Can we be a bit more specific about this and the B747 issue? Which gates are they supposed to fit and don't?

[MANworker]

Can we be a bit more specific about this and the B747 issue? Which gates are they supposed to fit and don't?

in terms of actually fitting on the stand the 747 fits, but the air bridges are designed differently which means a part of it is very close to causing significant aircraft damage

[SWBKCB]

Many, many years ago, my university professor used to encourage us all to buy his very big book on how to design an airport.

It had all sorts of interesting things in it - it's not rocket science... :(

[easyflyer83]

Sounds more like an issue with the airbridge manufacturer. Who manufactures airbridge equipment that isn’t compatible with the Boeing 747?? Granted, numbers are reducing but it’s still a widely used aircraft around the world.

[southside bobby]

Probably no 74`s at Sofia though as after declaring an interest in running Sofia Airport last year MAG confirms it has presented a bid in partnership with Chinese investment group BCEG with whom it also partners in development of Airport City Manchester.

[Suzeman]

Many, many years ago, my university professor used to encourage us all to buy his very big book on how to design an airport.

It had all sorts of interesting things in it - it's not rocket science... :(

Someone at Loughborough by any chance?

[SWBKCB]

Could be!! ;)

[spannersatcx]

Can we be a bit more specific about this and the B747 issue? Which gates are they supposed to fit and don't?
I’m told the 350 was trialled on 110, the airbridge wouldn’t get to the L2 door without hitting the engine and was 2 feet short of the L1 door. Was supposed to be trialled on 106 today but has been postponed until next week. L2 door is the preferred door so not everyone traipses through the business class section.

[BHX5DME]

Looks like Jet Airways days are numbered !
https://www.ndtv.com/business/jet-airways-cancels-all-international-flights-today-tomorrow-sources-2021708

[chaps1954]

Bit of a downward spiral down the plug hole, shame as they finished off with amazing loads in the high 90s%

[Betablockeruk]

I’m told the 350 was trialled on 110, the airbridge wouldn’t get to the L2 door without hitting the engine and was 2 feet short of the L1 door. Was supposed to be trialled on 106 today but has been postponed until next week. L2 door is the preferred door so not everyone traipses through the business class section.

Artist's impression clearly shows a gap between the airbridge and the 747 on 106 and that's what they have delivered. :ok:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x720/mantp_d466fe0243f34c427d925cd1c204d9cd8f20f90f.jpeg

[azz767]

Whilst I admit it really isn't great, wont it in the long run not actually be a major problem, I say this because:
(I am in no way excusing the shoddiness of the situation, just looking at it from a different perspective)


1. Surely learning from pier 1, this wont be allowed to happen on pier 2/3.
2 There's surely going to be enough stands capable of handling the 747's from the existing T2 even whilst the second pier is getting built.
3. When pier 2/3 are built, isn't the likelihood that most VS will park in those two closer to the new lounges leaving pier 1 to Loco's/charters.
4. How many A350's, 747's etc, will be on the ground max at any one time? Wont there be enough stands in pier 2/3 to cope with these if the pier 1 issue can't be sorted? I know that's not the point but it should be manageable right?

[Suzeman]

Artist's impression clearly shows a gap between the airbridge and the 747 on 106 and that's what they have delivered. :ok:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x720/mantp_d466fe0243f34c427d925cd1c204d9cd8f20f90f.jpeg

Very good - like it :ok:

[Betablockeruk]

Whilst I admit it really isn't great, wont it in the long run not actually be a major problem, I say this because:
(I am in no way excusing the shoddiness of the situation, just looking at it from a different perspective)


1. Surely learning from pier 1, this wont be allowed to happen on pier 2/3.
2 There's surely going to be enough stands capable of handling the 747's from the existing T2 even whilst the second pier is getting built.
3. When pier 2/3 are built, isn't the likelihood that most VS will park in those two closer to the new lounges leaving pier 1 to Loco's/charters.
4. How many A350's, 747's etc, will be on the ground max at any one time? Wont there be enough stands in pier 2/3 to cope with these if the pier 1 issue can't be sorted? I know that's not the point but it should be manageable right?

Virgin Atlantic Set To Retire Boeing 747s In 2021 (https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantic-747-retirement/)

That timeline probably makes it a non issue unless the A350 is also a problem?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Virgin Atlantic Set To Retire Boeing 747s In 2021 (https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantic-747-retirement/)

That timeline probably makes it a non issue unless the A350 is also a problem?

Thats an easy escape for the project teams failure, one of the most important aspects of the pier and they got it wrong.

Hopefully they pay more attention on the next phase.

[spannersatcx]

Whilst I admit it really isn't great, wont it in the long run not actually be a major problem, I say this because:
(I am in no way excusing the shoddiness of the situation, just looking at it from a different perspective)


1. Surely learning from pier 1, this wont be allowed to happen on pier 2/3.
2 There's surely going to be enough stands capable of handling the 747's from the existing T2 even whilst the second pier is getting built.
3. When pier 2/3 are built, isn't the likelihood that most VS will park in those two closer to the new lounges leaving pier 1 to Loco's/charters.
4. How many A350's, 747's etc, will be on the ground max at any one time? Wont there be enough stands in pier 2/3 to cope with these if the pier 1 issue can't be sorted? I know that's not the point but it should be manageable right?
4 350’s SQ X2, QR AND CX at the moment! VS 3 744’s I think.

[Scottie Dog]

Spannersatcx - Having been working off only a mobile for the last few weeks I have missed a couple of important OANs that have been issued, and which make interesting reading, since there is no reference to Stand 104 being able to accept B747

OAN-26a-2019 Issued 29th March 2019
https://i.ibb.co/hVH2FYP/Screenshot-352.png
https://i.ibb.co/FzGxrpk/Screenshot-353.png

OAN-26b-2019 Issued 5th April 2019
https://i.ibb.co/DrB68rv/Screenshot-355.png
https://i.ibb.co/thM4Xq9/Screenshot-356.png

[BHX5DME]

Good to see A6-APD will be on EY21 today

[spannersatcx]

Spannersatcx - Having been working off only a mobile for the last few weeks I have missed a couple of important OANs that have been issued, and which make interesting reading, since there is no reference to Stand 104 being able to accept B747

OAN-26a-2019 Issued 29th March 2019
https://i.ibb.co/hVH2FYP/Screenshot-352.png
https://i.ibb.co/FzGxrpk/Screenshot-353.png

OAN-26b-2019 Issued 5th April 2019
https://i.ibb.co/DrB68rv/Screenshot-355.png
https://i.ibb.co/thM4Xq9/Screenshot-356.png
looking at that none of them are! no mention of the 350 either! can get a 777-9 on 106 though, shame there's none actually flying!

[virginblue]

Looking at the aerial view of the three piers, I am wondering why all three appear to be different in length, particularly why the middle one is rather short? Is the area around it earmarked for walk boarding by LCCs so that investment in an extension of the shed and throwing in another set of airbridges was not worthwhile?

[azz767]

Is the Etihad A380 going to have to park remote? I thought the stand that Emirates use is the only contact stand that is A380 compatible and the Etihad plane will be in at the same time as the 3rd Emirates of the day and I doubt Emirates will be too pleased if they get budged off their stand.

[Lancaster Bomber]

Is the Etihad A380 going to have to park remote? I thought the stand that Emirates use is the only contact stand that is A380 compatible and the Etihad plane will be in at the same time as the 3rd Emirates of the day and I doubt Emirates will be too pleased if they get budged off their stand.

Etihad A380?

[STN406]

Good to see A6-APD will be on EY21 today

Its got a load to match too. 464 passengers onboard just 30 of its total.
Nice treat for all you MAN spotters to see one of Etihad's A380’s

[ld0595]

Anyone know why Etihad was sending an A380? Was it planned or a substitution?

[ZOOKER]

virginblue,

a MAG presentation I attended last year indicated that it may be extended further in the future. As someone in the audience pointed out, that would involve turning the airside into a secure land-side building site-again, with all the cost/inconvenience that would involve.
Just borrow the money and build it now.

[LFC22]

Anyone know why Etihad was sending an A380? Was it planned or a substitution?
From what I heard, equipment shortage. 77W not available.

[azz767]

Is the Etihad A380 going to have to park remote? I thought the stand that Emirates use is the only contact stand that is A380 compatible and the Etihad plane will be in at the same time as the 3rd Emirates of the day and I doubt Emirates will be too pleased if they get budged off their stand.

Does anyone know what happened re parking?

[chaps1954]

Went on 62

Ian

[spannersatcx]

I’m told the 350 was trialled on 110, the airbridge wouldn’t get to the L2 door without hitting the engine and was 2 feet short of the L1 door. Was supposed to be trialled on 106 today but has been postponed until next week. L2 door is the preferred door so not everyone traipses through the business class section.

Apparently the A350 went on 106 without any issues, so they can at least use one of the stands.

[eggc]

Facebook rumour alert...!

"Juneyao Air have applied to add MAN as an extension of its new daily PVG-HEL service, although the add on MAN would only be 4 weekly. They use Dreamliners on this route and MAN start from Nov 19."

Make of that what you will...

[eye2eye5]

Facebook rumour alert...!

"Juneyao Air have applied to add MAN as an extension of its new daily PVG-HEL service, although the add on MAN would only be 4 weekly. They use Dreamliners on this route and MAN start from Nov 19."

Make of that what you will...

its noted elsewhere that they failed to obtain slots at LHR and accordingly have turned their attention to MAN.

[VickersVicount]

...its usually LGW first in that scenario!

[chaps1954]

Not always now al a Ethiopian

Ian

[Betablockeruk]

There may be 4 precious daily (ex?) Jet Airways LHR slots available to the highest bidder so lets see how this pans out....

[MANFOD]

There may be 4 precious daily (ex?) Jet Airways LHR slots available to the highest bidder so lets see how this pans out....

That's a fair point but does the 1 route / 1 airline policy still stand at LHR for China services?
The other issue is whether Air China still hold the rights to PVG-MAN and if so, how will the CAAC react to the application by Juneyao to serve MAN, albeit as an extension to their Helsinki service.

[Rutan16]

UThat's a fair point but does the 1 route / 1 airline policy still stand at LHR for China services?
The other issue is whether Air China still hold the rights to PVG-MAN and if so, how will the CAAC react to the application by Juneyao to serve MAN, albeit as an extension to their Helsinki service.

Juneyao are one of those many quasi private Chinese companies that when really probed are pretty much a front and don’t stand up to City and financial standards .

Very close inspection shows rather close links to both Air China and China Southern !

Indeed it appears to me that the guys at Air China manipulate both purse strings and direction. Suffice to say it’s just another shell ( they record profits allegedly !)

Given known internal politics around Air China’s desire for more access to Shanghai whilst they actively block ( with tacit approval of the CAAC ) similar access for China Eastern out of Beijing ( China Southern being to preferred second carrier from Daxing !) me thinks Juneyeo are a play by the big two to break China Easterns hold at Shanghai via the back door and via the “new entrance rules”

As usual China’s aviation market still sleight of hand and illusion

That said would be nice to see them pick up the Air China licence !

The one carrier one route “rule” very much remains for the immediate future and even in Beijing as two carriers won’t operate from the same airport but the market as a whole will be considered a single one !

So for instance China Southern have been awarded Daxing - London and will certainly start this very soon - they are VERY LIKELY to acquire a pair of Jet evening slots in the next weeks especially as they have a code share and partnership with owners Etihad already !

[Rutan16]

Nope not the property of Jet - All owned by Etihad and they have take one pair back and will certainly want to place the rest out to a rental . China Southern are likely to use one pair whilst other may well find use with VS/DL/Connect !

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

There is the second airport at Shanghai - Hongqiou (SHA), maybe the Juneyao plan would be to serve there as they have a hub. In reality, Hongqiou is the better airport for access to the city and is adjacent to the high speed railway station.

[A320ECAM]

Do the baggage handlers still chuck your case around like a shotput at EGCC?

[chaps1954]

You mean like everywhere else

[Seljuk22]

There is the second airport at Shanghai - Hongqiou (SHA), maybe the Juneyao plan would be to serve there as they have a hub. In reality, Hongqiou is the better airport for access to the city and is adjacent to the high speed railway station. SHA is more a domestic/regional airport, not used for long-haul flight (up to now).

[A320ECAM]

You mean like everywhere else

More so at MAN because why not.

[SWBKCB]

More so at MAN because why not.

Would you like to expand on your statement, or is it just straight forward trolling?

[A320ECAM]

Would you like to expand on your statement, or is it just straight forward trolling?

All I ask you to do is research MAN airport baggge handlers. You have so many reports from pax of damaged luggage and even a few tens of videos too!

[SWBKCB]

Do the baggage handlers still chuck your case around like a shotput at EGCC?

So if it's such common knowledge, what was the point of your question?

[Scottie Dog]

There are some people who just seem to be intent on revisiting old problems.

I certainly recall a number of very well known events with bad, I'll even go as far as to say horrendous, publicity for the airport in 2018. However I would hope that the handling agents responsible - note agents contracted by the airlines and not by the airport - have been given written warnings and that things have improved. I don't recall having seen any reports of problems this year but, hey ho, we are only in mid-April and so there is still time for some people's dreams to come true!

[Mr Mac]

I have just come through T2 with SIA and can only say what a drab experience it is. Below is a post I put on the LBA site about their new proposed development, which also fits Manchester new T2 experience as well.

Looks a little like the "New" Manchester i.e. no architectural master piece, a communal bus shelter not unlike Liverpool. Sorry, but I have been involved with airport projects globally, and have to say the ability of airport operators in the UK to pick the most boring designs is becoming a bit of a joke. I know that one of the worlds big manufacture's is Airbus, but do you have to, in the UK take this literally in building Bus Stations with a shopping mall attached. I realise that much of UK regionals do not have the budget of HK / Singapore but can we get away from the Ral 7016 cladding colour (known as recession Grey in our company) and common to all UK public buildings since 2008. Put some more glass in to show the punters, many who are not regular flyers the beauty of aviation. You can be adventuress without breaking budgets. Years ago I was involved in a minor way in a Public swimming pool project in Colne in Lancashire which won the Sunday Times project of the year for the Hodder Sanderson practice, and they beat some big names in doing that so it can be done on a budget, you just need some vision. I believe Steve Hodder still has a thriving practice, in Manchester so you can even use a local practice !

Have to say opportunity well and truly missed with new Manchester development, not a good example of a Global gateway in this SLF extensive experience both as punter and contractor.
Regards
Mr Mac

[chaps1954]

Did you go on the new pier? because none of the other has opened yet

[rkenyon]

Arriving at T1 this morning, it appears that MAN have replaced Arrow Cars with Street Cars as their preferred private hire company.

Of course, Street Cars didn't have any cars available for "at least 30 minutes", so that sounds like a great change.

[Espada III]

There should be a minimum service requirement of a car available within five minutes at any time between 6.30am and 01.00am.

Otherwise pointless having a preferred provider.

[Mr Mac]

Chaps
No I just looked from the outside when coming up to stand. At the moment the next time I use T2 will be June with Jet 2 (though in my game things change frequently so I maybe there sooner !) and will be using the new pier I fear. I use T1 for most of my hops, as usually on EK and LH ,and only occasionally use T2 for SIA / Cathay. When EK were first in T2 I used it quite a bit but even then preferred T1 and T3, but that was when T3 was largely just BA but the EK lounge in T2 was awful. I have seen some internal shots of the works, and I am sorry it is not impressive in my opinion. Have a look at Munich if you want to look at a good regional airport in Europe where design and functionality work well.

Kind regards
Mr Macf

[gazza007]

I quite liked Arrow & found them reliable. Initial dealings with Streetcars so far are poor.
You can't book a return journey online & their website link from MIA website is insecure & actual Website and App poor too, I have tried to point this out to MAG and was ignored for a while then fobbed off.
I booked a journey via their app and was estimated at £8.50 but was then charged £12.00 to my card, live chat to complain and then emailed and was ignored. Seems to be have been a total lack of Due Diligence by MAG. Good luck everybody

[Rutan16]

Mr Mac Munich is not a regional by any stretch of the imagination - Its The federal capital with Lufthansa and Star partners operating a true global Hub !

The works on T2x meet the highest current UK building standards for PUBLIC buildings in both environmental and security standards and what’s wrong RAL7016 ?

If you have worked on developments of a similar nature you will know full well that GLASS is most expensive needs substantial amounts of curtain walling rails normally sourced from just a very few German or Swiss manufacturers whilst they fail to meet the new UK public works explosion resistance standards in the main, and massively fail the environmental production standards of relevant Green credentials. Glass production is massively energy inefficient and poluting.

And to be frank what’s the point of glass even frosted with curtain walling rails on the lower ancillary levels or indeed upper levels containing air ventilation, and fire protection systems ?

As a pier it’s purely a functional structure, however there are issues with docking. Some of the air bridge alignment associated with the larger widebody jets that have been identified in early snagging.


Think I’ve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.

This concern that somehow foreign visitors care what the structures external appearance looks like is imho nonsense , however how they perceive the security customs and immigration processes will have an effect and for the most part these are controlled by other agencies.

Like it or not the VAST majority of the Manchester SLF clientele remains UK residents and with BREXIT looming the reintroduction of the Duty Free meagre allowances for many travellers (They will love the old 200 cigies, 1 litre of spirits and here’s the big one just £390 pounds of gifts with receipts) the airport and its concessions will need to get even more money from the departing passengers purses !

[The96er]

Think I’ve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.

Err, yes it should, MAN is not only the gateway to Manchester, which as a City is once again aspiring to be a world city with some success, but also the gateway to the whole north of England. This" it's functional, therefore, it'll do" mentality is just accepting of Mediocrity. Look at any form of architecture from behind the iron curtain - they were all functional !!

Just think of how the Victorian Railway pioneers were each building their magnificent grandiose Stations that just shouted Welcome to our city. The new T2 development sadly lacks this ethos.

[chaps1954]

The Victorians had so much money to spend on grand buildings but not on the staff who often worked
in disgusting conditions

[rkenyon]

Err, yes it should, MAN is not only the gateway to Manchester, which as a City is once again aspiring to be a world city with some success, but also the gateway to the whole north of England. This" it's functional, therefore, it'll do" mentality is just accepting of Mediocrity. Look at any form of architecture from behind the iron curtain - they were all functional !!


Having just visited T4 at JFK, give me a bland T2 at MAN any day. Complete shambles.

On the return to MAN T1, I was off the plane, straight through passport control, grabbed my bag and took a taxi home. Less than an hour from wheels down. And you know what, I didn't stop to think what might have been if Sir Norman Foster had been involved in the design.

People want a functional airport.

[Mr Mac]

Mr Mac Munich is not a regional by any stretch of the imagination - Its The federal capital with Lufthansa and Star partners operating a true global Hub !

The works on T2x meet the highest current UK building standards for PUBLIC buildings in both environmental and security standards and what’s wrong RAL7016 ?

If you have worked on developments of a similar nature you will know full well that GLASS is most expensive needs substantial amounts of curtain walling rails normally sourced from just a very few German or Swiss manufacturers whilst they fail to meet the new UK public works explosion resistance standards in the main, and massively fail the environmental production standards of relevant Green credentials. Glass production is massively energy inefficient and poluting.

And to be frank what’s the point of glass even frosted with curtain walling rails on the lower ancillary levels or indeed upper levels containing air ventilation, and fire protection systems ?

As a pier it’s purely a functional structure, however there are issues with docking. Some of the air bridge alignment associated with the larger widebody jets that have been identified in early snagging.


Think I’ve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.

This concern that somehow foreign visitors care what the structures external appearance looks like is imho nonsense , however how they perceive the security customs and immigration processes will have an effect and for the most part these are controlled by other agencies.

Like it or not the VAST majority of the Manchester SLF clientele remains UK residents and with BREXIT looming the reintroduction of the Duty Free meagre allowances for many travellers (They will love the old 200 cigies, 1 litre of spirits and here’s the big one just £390 pounds of gifts with receipts) the airport and its concessions will need to get even more money from the departing passengers purses !








Rutan 16
I am aware that Munich is a state capital as our European office has moved there from London, and I keep a flat there as a result, so feel a little qualified to discuss the point. The hinterland and population is similar to that of Manchester and also its catchment area, so we are looking at similar possible traffic density. The fact that LH uses it as hub you should take up with BA, and ask why they abandoned everywhere outside the M25, but that is a different topic. I am sure the new building does meet current codes, or else the design team want sacking, and I did not say it did not. Do not confuse my comments re design with the issues involved in an infamous tower block, as that was not my point. What is wrong with Ral 7016 is that it is everywhere in the UK on public and private buildings, and is used primarily, as it hides dirt and therefore the cladding appears cleaner than it is, which means that people do not have to clean it so often. However if not cleaned by approved cleaners every 6 months your warranty disappears. Guess what does not get cleaned on most buildings unless your client has deep pockets or status. As for the curtain walling, yes there are Swiss / German / American / any number of others countries including some English ones, and glass is more expensive than panels, but if you want an airport like the sheds at Daventry distribution centre, or a US Walmart go with panels, but it is not statement architecture, and a poor advert for the region. Incidentally Asda Walmart tried to build a US style store in the UK in Yorkshire, and actually built it, but had to subsequently alter it to put more glass in as people did not like walking through a shed to shop. As for Green issues you will find that 30% of all glass used in construction is recycled, which has caused its own problems. If you Google Nickel Sulphide Inclusions you will see what I mean. I was not asking for an architectural master piece, as I am well aware that MAG does not have the budget for that , hell they can not even fix the lifts and escalators, so I was well aware we were not going to get a new HK/ SIN. However I thought we could have done better than a municipal bus station. I quoted the small municipal pool in Colne as good architecture on a strict budget, to show how it can be done, but you appear to want a Norman Foster inspired project which MAG could not afford. However was his practice asked, or were any other airport specialists asked for input ? I note your address is London, so I take it you are quite happy with T5, but feel that the regions are not worthy of having anything like that. Give them a bus shelter to smoke their fags in and drink their beer, on the way to the Med once a year ,and they will be happy ! We are supposed to inspire people to greater things, not settle for mediocrity, which is so prevalent in the way English society seems to be going. I do agree with you with regards security, check in, and immigration, but my experience at Manchester is a little mixed on all counts there. Not as bad as most US airports as rkenyon alludes to about JFK, and I hold the same views about there as well, and would also add ATL / LAX / SFO/ MIA and many others I have visited in the "Empire", but we should try to imitate the best, not the mediocre / dreadful. I agree with 96er, and there comment on railway stations, as some like GMEX even look well after their original function has ceased. As for Victorian labour practises Chaps 1954, I would look no further than current Zero hour labour practices, and ask have we improved much in the last say 100 + years, or are we regressing as a nation. Anyway enough of my rant, time to get my flight, as the drivers arrived.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Scottie Dog]

The last few weeks have been rather hectic, hence the delay in posting these updates.

MANTP Weekly Update #86, courtesy of the MANTP Project team:

https://i.ibb.co/2KmBFHP/Screenshot-366.png

https://i.ibb.co/Byggd4r/Screenshot-368.png

https://i.ibb.co/WtVSQqc/Screenshot-369.png

https://i.ibb.co/rkQHPzX/Screenshot-370.png

https://i.ibb.co/6vdXV9j/Screenshot-371.png

https://i.ibb.co/9YbSgqH/Screenshot-372.png

https://i.ibb.co/rb6TVYX/Screenshot-374.png

https://i.ibb.co/yRW82cY/Screenshot-375.png

https://i.ibb.co/MNwSb8K/Screenshot-376.png

https://i.ibb.co/sw36sHj/Screenshot-377.png

https://i.ibb.co/nkWCwJc/Screenshot-378.png

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Weekly Update #87, courtesy of the MANTP Project team:

https://i.ibb.co/bdFPmdj/Screenshot-379.png

https://i.ibb.co/C7yf34D/Screenshot-380.png

https://i.ibb.co/C7s7bqz/Screenshot-381.png

https://i.ibb.co/0D6NdFh/Screenshot-382.png

https://i.ibb.co/t4D0wRF/Screenshot-383.png

https://i.ibb.co/Z1sTxsY/Screenshot-384.png

https://i.ibb.co/tq4hkzh/Screenshot-385.png

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

Rutan 16
I am aware that Munich is a state capital as our European office has moved there from London, and I keep a flat there as a result, so feel a little qualified to discuss the point. The hinterland and population is similar to that of Manchester and also its catchment area, so we are looking at similar possible traffic density. The fact that LH uses it as hub you should take up with BA, and ask why they abandoned everywhere outside the M25, but that is a different topic. I am sure the new building does meet current codes, or else the design team want sacking, and I did not say it did not. Do not confuse my comments re design with the issues involved in an infamous tower block, as that was not my point. What is wrong with Ral 7016 is that it is everywhere in the UK on public and private buildings, and is used primarily, as it hides dirt and therefore the cladding appears cleaner than it is, which means that people do not have to clean it so often. However if not cleaned by approved cleaners every 6 months your warranty disappears. Guess what does not cleaned on most buildings unless your client has deep pockets or status. As for the curtain walling yes there are Swiss / German / American / any number of others countries including some English ones, and glass is more expensive than panels, but if you want an airport like the sheds at Daventry distribution centre, or a US Walmart go with panels, but it is not statement architecture, and a poor advert for the region. Incidentally Asda Walmart tried to build a US style store in the UK in Yorkshire, and actually built it, but had to subsequently alter it to put more glass in as people did not like walking through a shed to shop. As for Green issues you will find that 30% of all glass used in construction is recycled, which has caused its own problems, if you Google Nickel Sulphide you will see what I mean. I was not asking for an architectural master piece as I am well aware that MAG does not have the budget for that , hell they can not even fix the lifts and escalators so I was well aware we were not going to get a new HK/ SIN. However I thought we could have done better than a municipal bus station. I quoted the small municipal pool in Colne as good architecture on a strict budget, to show how it can be done, but you appear to want a Norman Foster inspired project which MAG could not afford. However was he asked or were any other airport specialists asked for input ? I note your address is London, so I take it you are quite happy with T5, but feel that the regions are not worthy of having anything like that. Give them a bus shelter to smoke their fags and drink their beer in on the way to the Med once a year ,any they will be happy ! We are supposed to inspire people to greater things, not settle for mediocrity, which is so prevalent in the way English society seems to be going. I do agree with you with regards security, check in, and immigration, but my experience at Manchester is a little mixed on all counts there. Not as bad as most US airports as rkenyon alludes to about JFK, and I hold the same views about there as well, and would also add ATL / LAX / SFO/ MIA and many others I have visited in the "Empire", but we should try to imitate the best, not the mediocre / dreadful. I agree with 96er and there comment on railway stations, as some like GMEX even look well after their original function has ceased. As for Victorian labour practises Chaps 1954, I would look no further than current Zero hour labour practices, and ask have we improved much in the last say 100 + years, or are we regressing as a nation. Anyway enough of my rant, time to get my flight, as the drivers arrived.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

Hi Mr Mac, I am also a user of MUC and FRA as I live near Darmstadt. There is considerable bussing to the aircraft at these airports. Arriving at FRA terminal 1 from BKK 2 weeks ago I had a considerable route march from the plane on Gate 46 to get baggage and a further route march to the car park. I find Terminal 2 at both MUC and FRA have messy layouts. There is only 1 advantage to the design - the 3rd level to deal with non Shengen passengers. I am surprised that given that MAN were trying to secure pre clearance to the US and I presume domestic from the same terminal that an additional level is not being considered on any of the piers

[Mr Mac]

MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
I agree you have bus use at both airports, as you indeed do at some of the bigger hubs, DXB quickly springs to mind, where they bus 777 passengers on a regular basis from outer stands. Indeed I had that yesterday on my transfer there to India. My comment on Manchester were more about the external look of the building, although T2 was no beauty in the first place. Also at least in FRA/MUC lifts etc are fixed when broken, not just left, and there is a fair walk to the A380 stand on T1 at MAN. I will await with interest, and view with a professional eye, what I see inside when I eventually use the new pier.

Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Logohu]

Arriving at Hong Kong recently upon exiting the aircraft I had a walk along a pier, downstairs to a bus ride, a long walk, a train ride, and another long walk - just to get to the Immigration counters !! But at least the bus, up and down escalators, travelators, train and toilets along the way were all working efficiently and were spotlessly clean. I don't think folk would have a problem with remote aircraft parking, or the MAN experience in general, if all the facilities along the way were working, clean, fit for purpose, and not leaking !! That's where MAG lets itself down so often.

Looking forward to using the new pier and re-modelled T2 next time I visit MAN. Despite all the criticism on here (without doubt justifiable at times) I'm sure it will be 100% better than what it is starting to replace.

[spannersatcx]

update on pier 1, the A350-900 can only go on 106 as the airbridge doesn't fit on any of the others! FEP's keep tripping as they can't handle the loads needed for modern aircraft! Issues with airbridge and the 747. Wheel chair access too dangerous on the narrowbody side as the airbridge angle is far too steep and considered too dangerous, any PA announcements at the new pier does not go to the main part of T2, the part where all the passengers will be as that's the only place to eat and drink! Moving walkways not working! Apart from that it's a success I'm led to believe!

[Mr Mac]

Spannersatcx
Well obviously worse than I thought. I only commented on the aesthetics , I did assume that the the mechanics would have actually worked ! Not a good bit of PR for LOR / MAG.

Regards
Mr Mac

[LFC22]

Walkways at MAN are a myth. Convinced they're only there for showboating purposes

When is the 2nd pier construction due to begin?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

When is the 2nd pier construction due to begin?

It has already begun.

[Scottie Dog]

At the present time the work on the site of Pier 2 is limited to the new budding lounge. I will check later, but the actual Pier itself is not due to be in use until 2024 if I remember correctly.

[chaps1954]

Yes I think you are right Scottie but I am interested in this budding lounge

[MANFOD]

Yes, work on the new bussing lounge for a/c parked on remote stands is at Pier 2, but the actual Pier is the third to be built. Next up is Pier 3, hopefully with less issues than seem to be the case at Pier 1.

[ZOOKER]

I saw the new 'Premium Terminal' recently. It resembles a school woodwork project.

[MANFOD]

Zooker, would that be 6th Form or 1st Year project?::=

[Betablockeruk]

Yes I think you are right Scottie but I am interested in this budding lounge

"Budding lounge" = posh greenhouse?