Manchester-2

[chaps1954]

Lets all wait and see, I expect things will be a lot cleared by end of December or early January as the airlines are going to want to be ready for the busy booking period in January.

[LAX_LHR]

Shame EasyJet haven't increased frequency on the MAN-GIB route, definitely would fill up the gap lost from Monarch, unless there is another announcement due?

There hasn’t been an announcement at all yet so plenty of time for more frequencies. I personally can’t see GIB and TLV in particular staying at the frequency they currently are.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

2 routes I’m aware of are Genoa 2 Weekly and 6 weekly Nice. Mahon is highly expected. All other routes are protected as ZZF.

They're sticking ZZF to protect the slots, as you well know. I don't think they have the A/C to use them.

[businessair75]

I wouldn’t be too sure. An internal e mail explains that the slots being returned to the slot pool has put an obstacle on plans that the airline has and as such, any announcement won’t be made until the new year. It seems they have the plans but the fact that the slots aren’t being sold by the administrator is delaying things somewhat.

[LAX_LHR]

The slots are in the possession of ACL and thus Easyjet if allocated, they are no longer KPMG’s to sell.

[Scottie Dog]

The slots are in the possession of ACL and thus Easyjet if allocated, they are no longer KPMG’s to sell.

Just to add to what has already been said by LAX_LHR, it is common knowledge that the Manchester slots were returned to ACL and the pool at the initial Court hearing. It is the LGW & LTN slots that the Court of Appeal ruled were the property of Monarch and therefore could be traded.

As such I see no reason why easyJet should have difficulty in obtaining the slots at Manchester- even if they are unable to get the exact timing that they would initially like. Whether they take up all of those slots may be another question.

[SWBKCB]

even if they are unable to get the exact timing that they would initially like

Isn't the point being made that if they could have bought them from the administrator straight off, they would have know what they had without having to wait for the allocation process?

[Scottie Dog]

But the timing of the allocation process was such that they already knew which slots they had been awarded at Manchester at almost the same time as the Court of Appeal had made its decision on the LGW/LTN ruling. Presumably those "southern" slots now have to be bartered for and that will take a few days or weeks.

The MAG decision to go to court in the first place has saved a lot of time and effort for all involved. The only losers are the Monarch administrators who have now, unfortunately in my view, set a precedent in giving a value to slots at those other airports.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Isn't the point being made that if they could have bought them from the administrator straight off, they would have know what they had without having to wait for the allocation process?

Why would you pay Monarch's administrators for the slots and run the risk a court rules they are not theirs to sell and returns them to the slot pool anyway?

[LAX_LHR]

Isn't the point being made that if they could have bought them from the administrator straight off, they would have know what they had without having to wait for the allocation process?

with all due respect, that argument doesn’t really make sense?

Depending on the interest in those slots, they could have had to enter a bidding war and thus not only ‘not know what they had’ but could have incurred higher costs?

At least via the ACL they know what they have, and what they can use, and has probably cost them nothing other than possible admin fees.

[SWBKCB]

The slots are in the possession of ACL and thus Easyjet if allocated, they are no longer KPMG’s to sell.

The point being made is that at the moment EZY have plans but no slots so no announcements and no seats being sold.

If they had been able to buy from KPMG they would at least know where they stand.

[LAX_LHR]

Easyjet do have the slots though. The initial ACL for S18 shows Ryanair, Vueling and Easyjet have been awarded the Monarch slots. All Monarch ones have been cancelled.

[SWBKCB]

Thanks - that wasn't clear from earlier posts.

[chaps1954]

That was hard work wasn`t it,simples all the airlines know what they have got and it`s now upto the airlines to decide what they want to do with them otherwise release them back into the pool for others to pick over

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Not as simple as that, ACL hold the slots but the airlines have to work out A/C, staff, stands etc. You can't just e-bay them

[LAX_LHR]

Staff- special portals for ex-Monarch staff and high turnout.... check

Stands- 9 stands planned to be used by monarch but now vacant....check

Aircraft- bit more tricky but can no doubt be sorted, lots of aircraft in storage at the moment.

Problems are only problems if you don’t have solutions for them

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Staff - a lot of gone to pastures new, plus would they be "red-ringed" on their current contracts?

Stands - It's not the number, it's the timings.

A/C - Difficult one. Don't forget you need crew as well.

I'm surprised LH or KL haven't jumped on this

[LAX_LHR]

Staff. Would not be red ringed, only get TUPEd if there was a full takeover.

Stands, as said, no issue overnight, 9 aircraft void to fill.

[Navpi]

All EZY have to do and for that matter RYR etc is identify routes, source aircraft, employ staff.
No different to potential expansion at any any other airport in 2018.

Yes they will have same issue at LGW BUT it will cost an arm and a leg without these issues.

I fail to see what the discussion is about.

Can we have some at Stansted :)

[Espada III]

There hasn’t been an announcement at all yet so plenty of time for more frequencies. I personally can’t see GIB and TLV in particular staying at the frequency they currently are.

Pity, I was under the impression that TLV had pretty good load factors with both EZY and MON, so the loss of three flights per week out of five, especially since there was only one day on which they both flew, means a loss of flexibility for passengers, increased fares and more transferring via Europe.

[NorthCountryBoy76]

I think the post implied an increase in frequency on those flights

[LAX_LHR]

With IAG winning the lions share of LGW slots, probably means Easyjet can be even more focused on increasing the MAN operation now.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Staff. Would not be red ringed, only get TUPEd if there was a full takeover.

Stands, as said, no issue overnight, 9 aircraft void to fill.

I hate that "TUPE word" sends shivers down my spine.

Still surprised no mainline carriers haven't thrown their hat in the ring. I don't know where else EZY can fly to.

[LAX_LHR]

Some mainline carriers have, it’s just the low cost based airlines seem to be able to offer more. Clearly BA will be Pre-occupied with LGW now.

[Espada III]

I think the post implied an increase in frequency on those flights

I hope so. Thanks for the clarification; you are right, think I read it too negatively.

[LAX_LHR]

Yes sorry, I meant that ‘I doubt GIB will stay at 3 weekly and Tel Aviv at 2 weekly’.

[Skipness One Echo]

Chaos at Manchester Airport as passengers are sent through the wrong door in 'massive security breach' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/chaos-at-manchester-airport-arrivals-departures-security-breach/)

I had this once, although not as bad at LCY when the handling agents sent an IOM arrival into International Arrivals instead of CTA arrivals. Brazened it out by waving my boarding card at the Border agents, well that and a West of Scotland accent helped no doubt.

[rampman]

this happens most weeks at Manchester its nothing new so why has it made the papers this time ... its due to dispatches having to meet and dispatch several flights at once. they are scared of saying no because they are scared of loosing there jobs .. but they could lose it due to security breach so loose loose on there part :(

[FFMAN]

Sounds more like 'massive over-reaction aimed at playing on people's worst fears' garbage spouted by a newspaper on the journalistic race down to the bottom rather than 'massive security breach'.

Let's think about this rationally.
A plane full of security screened passengers arrive from an airport that has screening as good as if not better than the UK who then come into contact with a load of passengers who have already been security screened at Manchester.
It's a c*ck-up yes; embarrassing for the management yes; inconvenient for the passengers of course but 'massive security breach' ? ..do us all a favour and save the hyperbole for actual meaningful security breaches.

The trouble with society now is that we have lost the ability to think straight; the slightest mistake or malfunction is seen as a pre-cursor to the end of mankind as we know it. Journalists demand heads roll, politicians jump on the self-righteous bandwagon and solicitors lick their lips at the prospect that they might convince people to sue for 'hurt feelings' or some other made up form of alleged harm.

Lessons need to be learned, resources need to made available if that is seen as a contributory factor; better training too but panicking and over-reacting serves no purpose.
What ever happened to 'Keep Calm and Carry On' ?

[Mr A Tis]

If this happens most weeks as ramp man suggests, then lessons have obviously not been learned.
Compliance with DfT rules is a condition of the airports licence.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

There are far worse security breaches. Mixing screened PAX in a sterile area is not one.

[paully]

Precisely put FFMAN there in a nutshell is a lot of what needs sorting in society..AS for this incident, well worse has happened at sea:{

[Betablockeruk]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/275977/why-virgin-atlantic-is-in-it-for-the-long-haul/?hootPostID=d821255e7f5c0176005967d37eaf8cc5

Speech by Chief executive Craig Kreeger in Manchester, so ideal opportunity to talk about expansion but alas not.

MAN-MCO is their 4th highest by capacity

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

The talk was a few weeks ago. There were comments by the CEO of VS along the lines of "we look forward to continuing to grow in Manchester". The CEO of Virgin Holidays had a similar comment to make about future investments in the region.

I have uploaded a picture of the tweet on another site but cannot do so here.

[LAX_LHR]

Eurowings will increase Düsseldorf from 26th March, from 3to 4 daily mon-Fri.

Flights depart 0755/1110/1555/2000 using A319/A320/CRJ900.

Confirmed and bookable

[Betablockeruk]

Gone very quiet again. Announcements were lining up like a T3 security queue, but nothing making it to print.

[LAX_LHR]

Things are taking time to filter through.

As for nothing making it to print, I’m assuming part of the Cityflyer expansion and the Eurowings news above doesn’t count then?

LOT polish have a partial visibility in the GDS system and both Ryanair and EasyJet aren’t announcing new routes until the new year.

[TURIN]

I'm sorry but I have to say this..

LOOSE...Not fastened down or secured.

LOSE...Missing, not found (or beaten in a game)

[Betablockeruk]

As for nothing making it to print, I’m assuming part of the Cityflyer expansion and the Eurowings news above doesn’t count then?

Yes but, thinking a bit grander really.

Maybe I read too much into peoples' cryptic clues after the A319/HL8080 visit a month ago.

[LAX_LHR]

Things like the visit of HL8080 take years to cement, not weeks. Needless to say, the right people were wined and dined, it’s a start.

It will be new year before we hear some of the juicer bits of news, some airlines cant announce infilling the Monarch slots overnight like other airlines can.

[Armodeen]

Those of you in the know, the AN22 schedule appears to have slipped (as it often does). It was due in from Gander at 1845 today but it is currently about to arrive there instead. Any idea what the new ETA/ETD for it is please? I would love to get down there and catch it. Cheers.

[easyflyer83]

And remember that the “less juicy” flights & destinations and less grander airlines are very much the bread and butter of the airport.

[LAX_LHR]

And indeed it’s those types of airlines I refer to...

[Skipness One Echo]

Being reported elsewhere MAN is getting leased A330-200s to maintain the VS operation while their own metal covers, wait for it, London (boooooo!)

Seems the B787 engine issues are to blame. Anyone confirm?

[ZOOKER]

I see MAG have sold EGHH.

Will the proceeds be used to fund the construction of a (long-overdue) parallel taxiway down to the 05R threshold?

[AndrewH52]

Somehow I suspect not...

[eggc]

that might have something to do with a billion quid new terminal being built mind !

[Betablockeruk]

V-Flyer View topic - Possible VS lease of Delta 767 s during Oct/Nov (http://v-flyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=295959&start=100)

Booking information for Premium Economy customers.....:eek:

[Adola69]

I see MAG have sold EGHH.

Will the proceeds be used to fund the construction of a (long-overdue) parallel taxiway down to the 05R threshold?

WHAT? Manchester Airport fund development with their own money! Come come, those days are long gone whereby they raised money from their own coffers and borrowed on the back of future returns.
Now they have to "Partnership", which means terminal expansion and somebody else tweaking the strings so that they get a return on their money.
It just rankles me that they find it almost impossible to raise the funds themselves, - surely it was more difficult when the "Corpy" used to run it on their own, but they managed it splendidly.
A parallel taxiway doesn't quite rake in the Yen ! :rolleyes:

[chaps1954]

It would cost a vast ammount of money for little use,

[Skipness One Echo]

Depending how you define "vast". A strong business leader could have made a good business case for it under contingency planning. Penny wise and pound foolish. We really don't do forward planning anymore (!)

[LAX_LHR]

I believe another issue with the parallel taxiway was that it didn’t get planning permission to help quell the green lobby.

With a major A road and a river to bridge, as well as a lot of uneven land, it would be a huge cost for what could be very little use. The taxi times to 05R would likely be on par with the polderbaan in AMS, which seems excessive for an airport not yet at Runway capacity nor has extended periods of 05 use.

[Una Due Tfc]

The question is which causes more of a delay, gate capacity or taxiways?

[chaps1954]

At present the cul de sac to T2 is the problem which is being sorted but cannot be finished until pier C is shortened.

[bayer328]

I believe another issue with the parallel taxiway was that it didn’t get planning permission to help quell the green lobby.

With a major A road and a river to bridge, as well as a lot of uneven land, it would be a huge cost for what could be very little use. The taxi times to 05R would likely be on par with the polderbaan in AMS, which seems excessive for an airport not yet at Runway capacity nor has extended periods of 05 use.

I think you will find the distance from terminal -05R, is not as far as the 7km -4.3 miles
from Schiphol terminal.

[Mr A Tis]

Ah yes, sorting out the T2 cul-de-sac. whilst creating more cul-de-sacs with the T2 Fingers.
I think it is true to say that had MAG not entered into the folly of the likes of Humberside & Bournemouth they might not have taken their eye of the MAN ball and for instance, the £45M spent on BOH terminal might of been spent on working lifts & walkways at home base. I speak to many people & there is not an insignificant number that avoid MAN where possible due to the customer experience. Once a year bucket & spaders might endure the experience without complaint but regulars are well and truly peed off. True in 2027 it might be a different experience but there is no question whatsoever it is a decade too late. I await LAX LHR staunch defence of MAN, of which I truly admire greatly I wish I had such faith.

[LAX_LHR]

No defence from me, I’m sick of getting dragged down and insulted over things that are nothing to do with me.

The fact my name is already being dragged in without any interaction proves my point perfectly.

[Mr A Tis]

No it doesn't- there is no insult or dragging down from me sir. If you call being truly admired an insult, then I am sorry.

[LAX_LHR]

No I know you haven’t insulted me, but others have and all over difference in opinions on airport experience. Just can’t be bothered with it anymore.

[paully]

In fairness, just about all those who deified the edifice of Manchester Airport, and acted like schoolboy bullies to those who dared express a contrary opinion, have (finally) been thrown off the forum.

Lax was Never one of those and should be recognized as such :D..Thanks for the info and please keep up the good work.

[LAX_LHR]

Thanks paully.

I don’t post here for the plaudits, but equally not the insults either. I post because I have access to news, and like to see the drome do well.

MAN was always the airport we went to for our holidays, and as a teen, went spotting too. And for that, I love seeing it do well, and for a regional airport on an island domintaed by one of the worlds super hubs, I think MAN has a very enviable Network.

By posting here it may also help the flights too, as there may be people reading who would actually use some of the new routes and flights that get posted here.

And that’s why I do it really. Yes, it may be seen by some as ‘bragging’ (but equally I don’t see why that’s not allowed), but it doesn’t harm anyone and might just help someone too. To be called some of the things I have purely for posting routes news/opinions is just a bit bizzare really, I thought we were all here for the same love of aviation, but it seems there is a fair amount of hatred too.

[Skipness One Echo]

there is a fair amount of hatred too.
If you're being bullied and it's genuine hatred please tell the mods who will sort it out ASAP. Genuinely, no one should be actually bullied. Otherwise....
I think it is true to say that had MAG not entered into the folly of the likes of Humberside & Bournemouth they might not have taken their eye of the MAN ball and for instance, the £45M spent on BOH terminal might of been spent on working lifts & walkways at home base. I speak to many people & there is not an insignificant number that avoid MAN where possible due to the customer experience. Once a year bucket & spaders might endure the experience without complaint but regulars are well and truly peed off. True in 2027 it might be a different experience but there is no question whatsoever it is a decade too late.
Great post! In business, all too often, senior careers are built on empire building with little regard for the medium to long term consequences. The whole concept of an airport group is a little odd, one thinks of BAA which was fine so long as it was in public ownership and part of a wider strategy. The idea that STN and MAN are in common ownership has some economies of scale for purchasing but not much else IMHO. What MAN used to have under Gil Thomson was a laser like focus on where they were going and what that looked like, and then putting in the facilities to manage the traffic. In fairness MAN still struggles in a rather unique position of being such a major player with no anchor tennant or based carrier. So the design isn't built around a vision like Lufthansa's Munich or Swiss' Zurich. MAN has a huge variety of destinations but offered across a wide variety of terminals and carriers none of which are really bespoke anymore. Rebuild can't come soon enough, and by way of note, BHX have just lost Icelandair in addition to American and United so times are changing (again).

[LAX_LHR]

If you're being bullied and it's genuine hatred please tell the mods who will sort it out ASAP. Genuinely, no one should be actually bullied. Otherwise....

Funny enough, I did once, but it was instead me who got a time out. But, is it not ironic you should comment, as I suppose you forget that in the period you and me never saw eye to eye, you sent me a pm where you admitted that you were deliberately trying to wind me up and such? You may have seen it as harmless, but Bullying can take several forms, don’t forget.

[j636]

So whats the potential impact on VS ops and overall capacity to the US if the A332s go ahead.

[Adola69]

It would cost a vast amount of money for little use,


Come come now, - think outside the box ! This Vast cost could easily be re-couped and eventually be used for what it was designed for, meanwhile use it as a car park like many operational areas have been over the past 5 years or so.:ok:

I won't be furthering this interlude as even I am getting bored with my bleetings. Bring on the RUMORS I say :D

[LAX_LHR]

So whats the potential impact on VS ops and overall capacity to the US if the A332s go ahead.

We are still awaiting the full details before we can speculate on the impact.

If it is the Air Berlin A332 and it remains in an Air Berlin config, then it represents a decrease in U/C, no premium economy and an increase in economy.

There is also the fact 4 aircraft are coming in to replace 3, so, that in itself is an interesting prospect.

This scenario is only until May. Later in the year, according to the VS email, the aircraft will be reconfigured to a full VS spec.

We also have the fact that routes to SFO and BOS appear to be going year round according to OAG, so, perhaps the small MAN subfleet could be a good thing.

[FFMAN]

Thanks paully.
By posting here it may also help the flights too, as there may be people reading who would actually use some of the new routes and flights that get posted here.
And that’s why I do it really. Yes, it may be seen by some as ‘bragging’ (but equally I don’t see why that’s not allowed), but it doesn’t harm anyone and might just help someone too. To be called some of the things I have purely for posting routes news/opinions is just a bit bizzare really, I thought we were all here for the same love of aviation, but it seems there is a fair amount of hatred too.

My emphasis. This is precisely the reason I look at this site - to get a heads up on new flying opportunities or more often in my case, looking for more pleasurable or direct ways of getting to projects overseas.

Your posts are really appreciated in this respect.

To be honest I don't really see you as someone who is always 'defending' MAN - although I am a relatively new poster I can think of times when you have criticized it too.
But whatever...in an open forum based in a society that celebrates free speech we should all be a little more tolerant when somebody posts something we don't agree with - and - that's life anyway isn't it? We wouldn't be so disrespectful to people face to face so why hide behind a keyboard?

On a purely selfish note....can I ask a question on something that I have seen partially announced: I was a reasonably regular user of the Monarch service to Zagreb, in fact I was last on it only a couple weeks before the final curtain. Is it true Croatia Airlines will adopt the route instead? I think I even saw flight numbers mentioned on here. If so any pointers on when flights might be released / and when they might begin? I've got to plan a couple of trips in the Spring and I need to get them booked immediately in the New Year due to coordnating with others coming from other points in Europe.
Thanks :ok:

[LAX_LHR]

In terms of Zagreb, I’m not aware of anyone taking over the route at this stage. The Croatian Times you may have seen were probably for the 2 weekly Split link, due to start May next year, but like a lot of the items waiting in the wings, is yet to be formally announced.

[AvGeek1]

Any news on LOT Polish Airlines to Warsaw?

[LAX_LHR]

It’s funny that you only ever seem to come on this thread to take issue at something I’ve posted? This thread would be better if you commented on the airport once in a while and not just what I’m posting.....

[southside bobby]

Skipness One Echo_
MAG Half Year results just announced.
Revenues +£61m to £543m +12.7%
Adjusted Operating Profit £164.8m +9.6%
In light of your remarks yesterday concerning MAN/STN within MAG would you care to comment or pass analysis?.

[southside bobby]

Dear oh dear....I ask a simple question....hey ho...what ever...:))

[southside bobby]

If viewers are slightly puzzled with what now appears a non contextual answer of mine above, the answer lies with Skipness One Echo as his original response to my question has rightly been deleted.
A more sensible less personal answer at time 11.18 above.

[southside bobby]

In connection with the results posted above MAG to hand £36m windfall to the 10 local Manchester councils as part owners.
Visionary.

[Porky Speedpig]

MAN-FLR and MAN-DUB announced by BA - see CityFlyer thread

[LAX_LHR]

Had expected Florence, and indeed is using the flight times and numbers posted earlier. DUB was unexpected though. Even at just 1 weekly, should do well with the weekend crowd.

[Armodeen]

Being reported elsewhere that the A332s being leased by VS to cover the 787 issues are being painted in the full VS livery and will be refitted with the standard interior in time. The poster suggests that the 4 aircraft will be MAN based.

If they are being painted and refitted that suggests they are staying longer term.

[chaps1954]

Been posted upto 4 years

[Skipness One Echo]

So four A330-200s to be based at MAN, would that be a five aircraft base for summer, with one B744?
More interestingly is what the released airframes are going to be doing back at LHR/LGW?
4 aircraft is a 10% increase in fleet size over todays 40.

[chaps1954]

need 2 B744 for at least some days for MCO and LAS plus maybe GLA

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

Did I read correctly, 45million pounds to build the new BOH terminal? Just had a look on Google Earth and there has to be a . between the 4 and 5 and even that figure would be expensive

[ETOPS]

Looks like the first significant snowfall forecast this weekend. Upto 20cm over the early part of Sunday.
Good luck if you're working or travelling...

[Mr A Tis]

MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
Just for you :New Bournemouth Airport terminal opens - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10273799)

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
Just for you :New Bournemouth Airport terminal opens - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10273799)



Thanks for the link, no way that cost 45million, someone was ripped off big time - I go with my original assessment of 4.5

[The96er]

Hopefully they might have serviced the de-ice trucks this year and will ensure that they are full of fuel and the all important de-ice fluid in time for Sunday morning!

That's called forward planning - How dare you suggest such a thing :E

[canberra97]

Any news on LOT Polish Airlines to Warsaw?

Well according to other forums LOT Polish Airlines will commence twice daily WAW to MAN on E190 at the beginning of the IATA summer schedule on the 25 March 2018 using flight numbers LO287/LO288 and LO289/LO290.

[canberra97]

What surprises me more than anything else about MAN is that why hasn't EL AL ever reinstated the TLV to MAN route as surely there must be the demand for it from the huge Jewish population in the Manchester and surrounding areas.

[roverman]

I believe that there has been lobbying from time to time from the Manchester Jewish community (fast growing) for EL AL to resume the service. There are some who will only travel LY due to the enhanced security on board, however since LY dropped it in 2000? the route has been well-served by LS, EZY and until recently MON. The latter's demise will surely prompt greater frequency from EZY and/or attract another carrier. Nice if LY were to return but I think less likely.

[easyflyer83]

.... and a large proportion of the Jewish community dislike El Al for a couple of specific reasons.

[roverman]

CX219 on its way to MAN - the first Sunday flight for many years. Yes, it's daily non-stop at last! With that tantalising gap in the CX 216/219 flight numbers - does the story end here?

[Logohu]

MAN taking quite a few diversions this morning from BHX, LTN and STN which are all snow closed, including AF & EW A319s, Pegasus, Turkish and three Blue Air 737s, LH CRJ and several Ryanairs.

Is the NOTAM office closed for its Xmas party today ?! :)

[LAX_LHR]

And even more incredible considering 05L requires backtracking and thus more landing spacing due to taxiway work. Kudos to all the staff in the airport today.

[spannersatcx]

CX219 on its way to MAN - the first Sunday flight for many years. Yes, it's daily non-stop at last! With that tantalising gap in the CX 216/219 flight numbers - does the story end here?
it started daily on Wednesday.

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - October 2017(Part 1)

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new routes to report - however Dakar in Senegal has reappeared for the first time since 2006 with 221 passengers

Four domestic statistic are currently missing from the CAA report for October .

Belfast City, Exeter, Inverness and Jersey have yet to provide figures

Total passengers for those 4 routes in September were 45,431


Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics

Monthly passengers - 2,401,992+ 3.1%
Annual Total- 24,123,491
Moving Annual Total - 27,714,994 + 10.05%

Monthly Movements - 17,250 + 2.4%
Moving Annual Movements - 197,038 + 9.1%

Manchester Statistics -October 2017 (Part 2)

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers

AMSTERDAM..................................... 91,455
DUBAI................................................ 82,959
DUBLIN.............................................. 78,606
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA)............. 70,946
PALMA............................................... 68,707
ALICANTE........................................... 68,245
HEATHROW....................................... 55,201
MALAGA............................................ 54,706
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)............. 54,507
ORLANDO.......................................... 51,126
ARRICIFE............................................ 43,763
FARO.................................................. 41,850
NEW YORK JFK................................... 38,425
FRANKFURT....................................... 37,955
BARCELONA....................................... 37,471
PAPHOS.............................................. 36,177
DALAMAN.......................................... 33,863
ABU DHABI......................................... 33,606
LAS PALMAS....................................... 32,381
COPENHAGEN.................................... 29,537
ANTALYA............................................ 29,087
MUNICH............................................. 27,927
BERLIN (SCHONEFELD)....................... 26,620
CANCUN............................................. 26,158
HAMBURG.......................................... 26,099

CAA statistics for October are provisional.


Manchester Statistics - October 2017 (Part 3)

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.

Destination......................................Total Pax....Schedule Pax....Charter Pax....Percentage change
HOUSTON........................................... 5,122............. 5,122.................. 0.................. 3,292.053
OLBIA................................................. 2,384.............. 2,199............... 185................. 1,181.7204
WROCLAW......................................... 4,315.............. 4,315................... 0................. 1,165.3959
TOULOUSE......................................... 4,381.............. 4,142................ 239.................... 995.25
SANDEFJORD...................................... 5,909............. 5,909.................... 0.................... 796.66161
PULA................................................... 1,571............. 1,387................ 184.................... 356.68605
MIKONOS............................................ 2,605............. 2,605.................... 0................... 287.64881
HURGHADA....................................... 13,192........... 13,192.................... 0................... 202.56881
SPLIT................................................... 5,464............. 4,918................. 546................... 160.68702
ALGHERO.............................................. 542..................... 0................. 542.................. 145.24887
KEFALLINIA......................................... 5,827............. 4,447............... 1,380................. 114.38558
HAMBURG........................................ 26,099........... 26,099..................... 0.................... 110.67969
ROME (CIAMPINO)........................... 14,311........... 14,311..................... 0.................... 99.986026
KRAKOW........................................... 13,944........... 13,944..................... 0.................... 89.019927
ILHA DO SAL CAPE VERDE.................. 5,574.............. 5,574..................... 0.................... 77.008574
DUBROVNIK...................................... 11,739............ 11,423................ 316..................... 74.453856
GERONA.............................................. 8,477............. 8,259................. 218.................... 71.287129
GLASGOW........................................... 5,992.............. 5,992.................... 0.................... 59.64892
CATANIA (FONTANAROSSA)............... 7,345.............. 5,685............. 1,660..................... 69.395756
KOS.................................................... 14,167............. 9,023.............. 5,144.................... 68.775316
THIRA.................................................. 5,374.............. 5,152............... 222..................... 65.813021
BILBAO............................................... 6,505.............. 6,505.................... 0..................... 58,619849
LOS ANGELES...................................... 7,156.............. 7,156.................... 0..................... 57.864549
GDANSK.............................................. 4,470.............. 4,470.................... 0..................... 57.560804
COLOGNE............................................ 5,391.............. 5,391................... 0...................... 57.263711

CAA statistics for October are provisional.


Manchester Statistics - October 2017 (Part 4)

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

Foreign_airport……..Total_Pax 2016……..Total Pax 2017……% change
VIENNA………………….. 9,173……….…………….. 9,339……………….. +1.809659
BRUSSELS……………… 16,087……………………. 19,705……………….. +22.490209
BEIJING………………….. 7,564 ………………….….. 5,846.………………. -22.71285
PRAGUE………………… 13,892……………………. 13,960…….…………. +0.48949
COPENHAGEN………. 29,560……………………. 29,537……………….. -077808
HELSINKI………………... 8,893…………….……... 10,158……………….. +14.224671
PARIS (CDG)…………… 51,593……………………. 54,507…………….... +5.648053
DUSSELDORF…………. 17,196………..…………. 22,126……..……….. +28.669458
FRANKFURT MAIN…. 30,894……………………. 37,955….…………… +22.855571
MUNICH………………… 26,892..………………….. 27,927………………. +3.848728
HONG KONG………….. 10,462….………………… 10,720 ……….……… +2.466068
KEFLAVIK……………….. 11,746……………….…… 14,931….……………. +13,122206
DUBLIN…………………… 84,203……………………. 78,606………….……. -6.647032
MILAN (MALPENSA).. 15,582……………………. 13,945……………….. -10.50571
ROME (FIUMICINO).. 19,193..……………………. 9,585……………….. -50.05992
AMSTERDAM…………. 86,874…………………….. 91,455.……………... +5.273154
ISLAMABAD……………. 22,658..…………………… 15,695………………. -3073087
LISBON…………………… 18,601…………………….. 23,059………..…….. +23.966453
DOHA…………………….. 27,130…………………….. 24,510………………. -9.657206
JEDDAH……………………. 3,834………………………. 4,552……………….. +18.727178
SINGAPORE……………… 6,910………………………. 7,395……………….. +7.018813
MADRID…………………. 13,755…………………….. 14,227………………. +3.431479
STOCKHOLM (ARN)… 13,403…………………….. 14,270………………. +6.468701
GENEVA…………………. 14,077…………………….. 16,427….………..... +16.693898
ZURICH……………………. 9,471……………………….. 9,471 ………………. +8.699644
ABU DHABI…………….. 32,421……………….……. 33,606…..…………. +3.655038
DUBAI…………………….. 76,105.……………………. 82,959………………. +9.005979
ATLANTA……………….. 13,549…….…………………. 8,821………………. -34.89556
CHICAGO…..…………….. 8,662……………………….. 8,123………………. -6.22581
HOUSTON……………..…… .151……………………….. 5,122………………. +3292.053
NEW YORK (JFK)……… 34,807…………………….. 38,425………..……. +10.394461
NEW YORK (NEWARK). 9,098………………………. 9,530………………. +4.748296
PHILADELPHIA………… 11,415……………………… 11,337……..………. -0.683311
HEATHROW……………. 58,123……………………… 55,201……………… -5.02727

CAA statistics for October are provisional.


Manchester Statistics - October 2017 (Part 5)

Comparison of top 25 destinations - October 2007 versus October 2017

Foreign airport...........................October-07...........October-17
PALMA.............................................. 85,365...................... 68,727
HEATHROW....................................... 83,031..................... 55,201
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA)............. 72,178..................... 70,946
MALAGA............................................ 64,078..................... 54,706
ALICANTE........................................... 62,322.................... 68,245
DUBLIN............................................... 60,975.................... 78,606
FARO.................................................. 51,173..................... 41,850
AMSTERDAM..................................... 46,107..................... 91,455
DALAMAN.......................................... 44,810..................... 33,863
PAPHOS.............................................. 42,995..................... 36,177
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)............. 42,195...................... 54,507
DUBAI................................................ 40,613...................... 82,959
SANFORD.......................................... 37,447....................... 6,627
LARNACA........................................... 37,371...................... 19,620
GATWICK........................................... 35,662....................... 1
ARRECIFE........................................... 33,031....................... 43,763
ORLANDO.......................................... 31,825....................... 51,126
FRANKFURT....................................... 29,565....................... 37,955
LAS PALMAS...................................... 27,018....................... 32,381
MALTA............................................... 26,710....................... 20,772
SHARM EL SHEIK................................ 26,242....................... 0
CHICAGO (O'HARE)............................ 23,398........................ 8,123
BODRUM............................................ 22,362....................... 7,630
IBIZA................................................... 22,297....................... 25,048
BELFAST CITY...................................... 21,243....................... No Data

CAA are statistics for October are provisional.


Manchester Statistics - October 2017 (Part 6)

Major changes to Domestic traffic

Edinburgh - 9,236 +11.82952%
Glasgow - 5,992 +69.64892
Newquay - 8,179 +45.19794

[j636]

Guess MON gone helps a lot but in fairness they have accepted a lot more this year than in 2016.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

CX219 on its way to MAN - the first Sunday flight for many years. Yes, it's daily non-stop at last! With that tantalising gap in the CX 216/219 flight numbers - does the story end here?

I can't imagine the numbering sequence is an accident...

[LAX_LHR]

Virgin Atlantic site now shows A330-200 on the bookings, and seat selection shows it will retain a full Air Berlin cabin during its initial March-May flights.

[Skipness One Echo]

Chaps you might be reading a tad too much into the Cathay flight numbers. It’s literally just gone daily after changing to a *smaller* aircraft. Great to see Cathay back but I’d want to see them defend what they’ve taken on, as a business, they see growth more in Dragon than mainline which continues to almost bleed brand new equipment to across KA.
They’ve really gone for it recently with a fifth LHR being joined by daily MAN and relaunching LGW. That’s a LOT of additional capacity.

[Mr A Tis]

CX. Not to mention a new DUB service. I am pretty sure I've read very recently that CX were going to 10 weekly from Dec 2018 with the 3 extra services arriving 1715 & departing 2015, however, I haven't seen that from a direct source (yet). I'll be in HKG later this week- so maybe I can find a source over there (?)

[LAX_LHR]

The 11 weekly flights start 6th November with evening flights Tue/Thu/Fri/Sat.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Chaps you might be reading a tad too much into the Cathay flight numbers. It’s literally just gone daily after changing to a *smaller* aircraft. Great to see Cathay back but I’d want to see them defend what they’ve taken on, as a business, they see growth more in Dragon than mainline which continues to almost bleed brand new equipment to across KA.
They’ve really gone for it recently with a fifth LHR being joined by daily MAN and relaunching LGW. That’s a LOT of additional capacity.

Airlines don't do things for no reason. When MAN was renumbered, CX claimed it was to avoid confusion with another flight number. The reality was it was in order to free the old number for DUB and we wait to see what the other numbers between MANs are used for. I'd say it's more likely than not for a second evening rotation.

[Espada III]

.... and a large proportion of the Jewish community dislike El Al for a couple of specific reasons.

Two reasons why El Al aren't in Manchester - probably connected...

1. For only two flights a week they will need to bring in their dedicated security staff, rather than being based in Manchester. This will mean either bringing them up from London for each flight, or bringing them on the flight from Tel Aviv. If the former, the cost is high; if the latter two revenue seats are wasted, especially on a smaller capacity frame like a 737. This therefore increases costs....leading to: -

2. Whilst many people will pay a higher price for a non-stop, direct flight which includes kosher food, luggage and additional security, there is a limit to the premium that they will pay. They may price themselves out of the market.

By way of example, I fly to TLV several times a year. My choices are EZY or changing in LHR, CDG, FRA, ZRH, BRU or AMS, as well as with Turkish but for political reasons they are not my airline of choice... With several family members on one booking, a saving of £100 per person going via Europe pays for the car hire during the trip. Some journeys only add about 90 minutes to the flight time and flight every day (not just two days a week) and at more convenient times. So, I will fly EZY, but the increased cost (and it almost always more expensive to fly with EZY) has to reflect the benefit to me.

Further, EL AL used to fly a route which stopped in Europe, as at the time the load factor was too low for a direct, non-stop service TLV-MAN-TLV. It was a pain to be stuck on the 'plane for over an hour going nowhere.

So I think it unlikely that EL AL will come back to MAN unless it is their lo-cost brand and even then it will be very difficult to compete with the very efficient EZY.

[roverman]

Virgin Atlantic site now shows A330-200 on the bookings, and seat selection shows it will retain a full Air Berlin cabin during its initial March-May flights.

Has anyone worked out what this means for VS capacity overall at MAN in Summer 18? We only just had the 40000 extra seats press release based on an extra B744 and now it all seems up in the air again, so to speak. Is this ;atest a net gain or loss compared to 2017? The VS A333s have 266 seats, how many do the Air Berlin -200s have, perhaps about the same in higher density?

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Hi Roverman, I think it depends how many A332s are brought in, and whether you take a short or mid term view.

The current consensus is that 4x A332 are to replace 3x A333 (with VS retaining 2x B744). However, we don't know if VS are taking 4, although it is up to 4, and we don't know they are keeping 2x B744.

I assume they would need 4x A332 to add modest seat growth over 3x A333 when both are in VS configuration.

By the sounds of things all remain at MAN over the winter, so there will be serious capacity increases in W18.

[MAN777]

A) EGCC B) 1712101601 C) 1712110900
E) AERODROME NOT AVAILABLE FOR DIVERTED TRAFFIC EXCLUDING EMERGENCIES
CREATED: 10 Dec 2017 16:02:00


BA aircraft are been sent all over the place tonight but sadly not MAN !

Expected I suppose as all our aircraft come home to roost !

[LAX_LHR]

The issue is that a lot of the earlier diverts are still on the ground, including the EK39 (A380) which is nightstopping until 0900.

There’s also the fact EK37 A6-EOX is asking for MAN, there just isn’t lot of room left!

[LAX_LHR]

Despite the no-div notam, managed to squeeze another A380 in for the night.

[spannersatcx]

CX. Not to mention a new DUB service. I am pretty sure I've read very recently that CX were going to 10 weekly from Dec 2018 with the 3 extra services arriving 1715 & departing 2015, however, I haven't seen that from a direct source (yet). I'll be in HKG later this week- so maybe I can find a source over there (?)
Just speculation about 10 a week, nothing in the pipeline to my knowledge.
DUB, CPH and BRU starting next year CHC just started, DUS finishing. Not enough aircraft and/or pilots to do them all!
350-1000 starts in Apr, with 6 in total for delivery in 2018. Approx 10 777's to go I'm told but not so sure when? So no spare capacity.

[golf yankee one one]

Would it be mischievous to suggest that EK are accepted as diverts because they have been so supportive to MAN over the years, whereas BA/IAG can scatter to the four winds because they are so unashamedly Londoncentric?

[roverman]

Yes, it would be mischievous, and incorrect. No-one making the decisions expends such effort of thought at times like these. Also, A380s have few choices of Alternate.

When the airport is full or unable to handle more flights without serious disruption, the 'no vacancy' sign has to be lit up. Emergencies are the exception.

[Sholto Douglas]

I believe the EK039 managed to get into Manchester after declaring a fuel emergency. According to another site he had enough fuel to hold over Birmingham until 2000hrs. Maybe he was a trifle naughty and extended his holding beyond that and so forced his way into Manchester?

[ssflyer]

EK039 made no attempt to get into BHX, it was at 25k ft as it passed well to the East of Birmingham making for MAN.

[MANFOD]

Confusion over flight numbers I think. It was the lunchtime flight that came straight to MAN and the evening flight that held at 17,000 feet over BHX for at least 45 minutes before diverting, apparently low on fuel.

Incidentally, well done to all concerned at MAN. It must be quite some time since we accepted more than 20 diversions in about 12 hours and most of those in 6 hours.

[Sholto Douglas]

Apologies if I mixed up flights numbers. Yes, I was referring to the evening flight (my reference to 2000hrs refers).

[MANFOD]

I believe seat guru shows the config. of the Air Berlin A332's as 19 Business and 271 economy, therefore 290 seats against 264 in the VS A333s.
I suspect though that space, seat comfort and the lack of Premium Economy will be more of an issue for potential pax, at least until hopefully the cabins are refitted to VS standards.

[nigel osborne]

Despite the no-div notam, managed to squeeze another A380 in for the night.

Declared a fuel emergency and had to go to the nearest airport that could handle it ,after holding over Birmingham.

[Skipness One Echo]

I can't imagine the numbering sequence is an accident...
Oddly enough, Gatwick looks to be going six daily (!)
CX343 / 354 HKG-LGW-HKG
Joking aside, hope the expansion happens for MAN.

[gojmc]

Just Genoa announced by easyjet today. I wonder what happened to nice and the rest of them?

Does Genoa fit into the current schedule or does it require another aircraft?

[LAX_LHR]

The rest of the routes announced in January.

[LAX_LHR]

Loganair will launch 4 new routes from Manchester next summer.

2 weekly Kirkwall, Mon and Fri with D328 from June 22nd until 3rd Sept.

1 weekly Stornoway,Saturday’s from June 23rd until Sept 1st with S340.

2 weekly Sumburgh from June 21st on S340

3 weekly MAN-INV-BGO through service from June also.

This brings Manchester to 18 domestic connections, and perhaps the best connected airport to Scotland from England.

[southside bobby]

Traffic figures for Nov being reported yet?.

[LAX_LHR]

Yes.

Up 1.9% to 27.7million.

Not a bad feat when you consider the loss of one of the biggest based operators.

[southside bobby]

Righty O....thanks.
More grist to the MAG mill being the main thing.

[LAX_LHR]

Flybe will begin a weekly flight to Olbia on behalf of Thomas Cook starting May

BE8932 MAN 1715 OLB 2100
BE8933 OLB 2145 MAN 2240

E175 Sunday’s from May 27th.

[CCGE29]

Taxiway Alpha to be extended to just before Bravo exit to run alongside the current Alpha so dual taxiway as part of the MANTP. This will lead to the perimeter fence being pushed back into the AVP.

Galliford Try lands £54m Manchester Airport project | Construction Enquirer (http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/12/15/galliford-try-land-54m-manchester-airport-project/)

[roverman]

An ex-MAG employee, amongst others, using an economic argument for greater air connectivity between the Regions and LHR, rather than for MAN route growth with improved surface connectivity in the case of those major Northern cities only 30-50 miles distant.

MAN doesn’t have LHR’s range of overseas destinations and frequencies (although much broader UK air connections), however you can get just about anywhere in the world which is of business significance either direct or with a myriad of one-stop options.

I wonder if the lobbying is more in recognition that these smaller airports will never have a great number of flights to business destinations, certainly not long-haul. Therefore a way to boost passenger traffic is to get a Heathrow route which might then add 20/25% to their annual throughput?

As for improving Regional air connectivity pre-R3, you could argue that MAN-LHR slots be given over to service smaller Regionals-LHR in recognition that MAN has all those other direct / one-stop options and so LHR is just a nice-to-have. I am not advocating this but if you apply the logic of allocating a scarce resource, as these people are, then it follows.

UK RABA Group and Heathrow intensify efforts for domestic access (http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/14/uk-regional-business-airports-group-raba-heathrow-intensify-efforts-domestic-access/)

[roverman]

Is this good use of a scarce LHR slot for a holiday route already served by the same airline from LGW and MAN? Perhaps only straggly pairs of slots but doesn't support the R3 and greater regional connectivity case.

Virgin Atlantic Airways adds another Caribbean connection (http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/15/virgin-atlantic-airways-adds-another-caribbean-connection/)

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Gotta be careful disparaging LHR on here, I don't know if it's the same MoDs, but the level of sycopanthy towards LHR was extraordinary at one stage.

I don't see the advantage in ringfencing slots for marginal routes to LHR. Given the cost of the project, LHR will want as many available for lucrative long hauls as possible so they can try and pay for the project without jacking up prices. There is also the issue of HS2 coming online.

There is also the issue of the UK putting all its eggs in the London basket again, which is not foot for the country as a whole.

[Navpi]

Surely the problem is that nobody can operate UK domestic feed into LHR at a reasonable rate of return ?

Virgin Red failed A320 45% load factor

BA Leeds have failed A320 50% load factor

That leaves FlyBe , BMI, possibly Loganair using much smaller aircraft but still paying "triple 777 level" landing rates.
And those fees will go up with RW3 not down.

My understanding is that the FlyBe loads are less than spectacular and are only retained as FlyBe will be able to sell the slots on in 18 months.

If HAL have faith in connecting say Derry, Teeside, Carlisle, and Liverpool ( A route which incredibly could not even be sustained by KLM) maybe they should set up an airline themselves and operate the service ?

[Skipness One Echo]

Is this good use of a scarce LHR slot for a holiday route already served by the same airline from LGW and MAN? Perhaps only straggly pairs of slots but doesn't support the R3 and greater regional connectivity case.
Why are we banging on about LHR on the MAN thread again? It’s like the battles of the 1980s never end! Virgin understandably need to use their slots, they’re hardly scarce if they’re already yours and a valuable tradeable commodity on a “use it or lose it” basis. Winter flying is pared well back to keep losses low, the 787 fleet is looking like a glider squadron at the min and hence serving a LHR-BGI on a tactical basis is all upside in the Northern Winter peak for this market. I think we all know LHR slots are not as scarce as some pretend.
Be fair now. You can see why some airports might see a LHR link as the answer to their problems, they’re probably wrong unless they get BA (INV) AND they get the nightstopper they need for business (unlike LBA). Ringfencing slots isn’t commercial, it’s politics, just like airport expansion everywhere. Is it worth trying? I think so. Will it impact MAN? No, because it probably won’t work !

The only non BA carrier who I think who could make new regions to LHR work is the orange one that were looking at T4 as a loco operation and recently decided that even though they loved SXF they also wanted a big piece of TXL! Not sure this would affect MAN much either.

[SWBKCB]

If HAL have faith in connecting say Derry, Teeside, Carlisle, and Liverpool

Faith? Political expedience more like. :ok:

And it's Teesside! :=

[National Solution]

It's like playing Mornington Crescent on here. Clearly there are rules on what can and can't be said, but only the privileged know. SWBKCB can mention Derry and Teeside, but Dobbo Dobbo cannot mention Heathrow. Skipness can mention Gatwick and Heathrow, but no one else can. Any more rules?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

BA should just bin the shuttles off. There is no P2P traffic as it's quicker on the train. We've got the TATL market covered, going east is well covered, plus plenty of connections via AMS, CDG, FRA etc for elsewhere. At the end of the day BA are ridiculously London-centric.. They've forced AA to reduce capacity to get people down there. MAN has a great USP, it has a huge catchment area and great transport links.

[The96er]

BA should just bin the shuttles off.

BA ply routes that suit their business needs, not the bitter desires plane spotters outside of London.

[chaps1954]

Or the great northern general public who have no interest in going via London except if the price is cheaper which BA do just so our local flights don`t suceed or at least thrive

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

BA ply routes that suit their business needs, not the bitter desires plane spotters outside of London.

Or the political whim of LHR and the DfT...

[SWBKCB]

Or the great northern general public who have no interest in going via London except if the price is cheaper which BA do just so our local flights don't suceed or at least thrive

I think it's called competition. What do you expect BA to do?

Or the political whim of LHR and the DfT...

Really?

[SWBKCB]

D_D - apologies - misread your post, thought that was what you were implying!

[Skipness One Echo]

Please show me some evidence BA forced AA to downgrade MAN.
the great northern general public who have no interest in going via London except if the price is cheaper which BA do just so our local flights don`t suceed or at least thrive
Business doesn’t work in this way. It really doesn’t. The idea that someone at Spanish owned IAG has a policy for BA to ensure local flights at MAN can’t thrive is bonkers.

the political whim of LHR and the DfT...
The days of those three being joined up ended decads ago. It’s 2017. HAL and BA are long since privatised and those at the top have long since changed.
We've got the TATL market covered, going east is well covered, plus plenty of connections via
Great. So rather than remotely support some UK jobs in England you call for BA to leave and suggest people fly Lufthansa, Air France and Swiss instead. Is that going to faster or S L O W E R in the main? BTW you missed DUB. That’s the real competition. MAN’s transatlantic isn’t “sewn up” it’s changing to a leisure focus. Delta have gifted MAN to a VS subfleet, AA have spoiled their own relationship and UNITED aren’t sure what they’re doing anymore. More seats by Thomas Cook are briliant for holidaymakers but direct connectivity for business isn’t growing. Indeed on MAN-ATL/JFK it seems to be going backwards. Huge strides in seasonal traffic is a huge boon though, I think year round reliability is taking a hit though.

Any more rules?
Don’t mention <censored>. Even now!

[Porky Speedpig]

BA should just bin the shuttles off. There is no P2P traffic as it's quicker on the train. We've got the TATL market covered, going east is well covered, plus plenty of connections via AMS, CDG, FRA etc for elsewhere. At the end of the day BA are ridiculously London-centric.. They've forced AA to reduce capacity to get people down there. MAN has a great USP, it has a huge catchment area and great transport links.

Sorry but this just isn't true. It is quicker if your points of origin and destination are near the terminating station. Lots of businesses are closer to the airports. Usually it is much cheaper to fly too. As a regular "by air" fan, I did try the train a few weeks ago (on a Sunday). Never again. At least on the plane you are guaranteed a seat and it is possible to buy food and drink and walk to the lavatory. Try the train on a Sunday (even F class) and compare. Even the nightmare that often is MAN T3 security compared well.

[Mr A Tis]

In the latest Which? Customer satisfaction survey for longhaul travel Ex the UK, the bottom 3 were, United, American & then BA. Probably more of an influence than the old LHR MAN debate that resurfaced every 6 months or so.

[anothertyke]

Surely the prime interest of the North-West economy is to maximise choice for all purposes, business and leisure. I'd have thought there are many world destinations --- US, Canada, Central and S America, S Africa and Australia among them--- where it's in the North West's interest to have via LHR as an option alongside via AMS,CDG,DXB and DUB plus direct where the volume supports it.


Maybe when HS2 turns up that situation might change but until then via LHR remains important.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

D_D - apologies - misread your post, thought that was what you were implying!

No probs! Thought it was relatively uncontrovertial!

[Fairdealfrank]

Sorry but this just isn't true. It is quicker if your points of origin and destination are near the terminating station. Lots of businesses are closer to the airports. Usually it is much cheaper to fly too. As a regular "by air" fan, I did try the train a few weeks ago (on a Sunday). Never again. At least on the plane you are guaranteed a seat and it is possible to buy food and drink and walk to the lavatory. Try the train on a Sunday (even F class) and compare. Even the nightmare that often is MAN T3 security compared well. You were lucky! Getting a train on a sunday on our 5 days/week railway is an achievement.

Yes you're right, unless you're going city centre to city centre on a weekday, the train isn't quicker.

Unlike Ringway, trains from the north do NOT run to Heathrow.


Maybe when HS2 turns up that situation might change but until then via LHR remains important. More like "if". However, if that monumental waste of taxpayers' money does turn up, even more economic activity will be sucked into London and the "Northern Powerhouse" idea will be history.

[FQTLSteve]

A few days ago on this thread there were references to A380 diversions last week due to weather. I would like to know, out of interest, if it is only possible for the A380, in the UK, to be diverted to one of the current four scheduled ops airports, or are there other UK airports that could handle an A380 diversion?

[GLAEDI]

I know Glasgow can take an A380 as EK have landed a scheduled one previously, also PWK has had a touch & go and STN runway is long enough. This is also why both PWK & STN are used as the counter terror diverts as they can take all aircraft on their runways. It’s having the push back bars, other aircraft movements and the trained staff in place whether they would accept diverts. If Capt needed down ASAP I suspect that will come first and sorting out how to get it back up later comes second.

[Flightrider]

Ironic discussion about El Al just a couple of pages back - they are planning a return to MAN next summer, Thu & Sun 737-800 TLV-MAN-TLV services!

[LAX_LHR]

Nice, it’s been a long time coming!

[Espada III]

I hope they don't price themselves out of the market. I would very much like to use them, but the timings and costs need to make sense.

[nigel osborne]

A few days ago on this thread there were references to A380 diversions last week due to weather. I would like to know, out of interest, if it is only possible for the A380, in the UK, to be diverted to one of the current four scheduled ops airports, or are there other UK airports that could handle an A380 diversion?

The 2nd EK 380 divert from BHX had been refused an initial divert to both MAN and LHR.

However after 45 mins of holding over a snow ravaged BHX, declared a fuel emergency and then was accepted by Manchester.

An airport has to be approved by the CAA to accept A380s and I think the only airports that are at present;

BHX MAN LHR LGW.

Airports have to satisfy wing clearance, runway taxiway and apron strength and Code F fire cover. Which I think has to be at least Cat 9-10 .

[southside bobby]

Just to clarify STN satisfies all the CAA mandates pointed out as does PIK as both handle regular B748 service/ops which is itself a Cat 10 a/c.
A BAW A380 visited & parked on the Terminal at STN to demonstrate & satisfy those published requirements .
Effective ground handling on stand precludes it.

[j636]

Looks like VS have adjusted freq to ATL/MCO next summer.

[canberra97]

Ironic discussion about El Al just a couple of pages back - they are planning a return to MAN next summer, Thu & Sun 737-800 TLV-MAN-TLV services!

Great news if it materialises and as you quote very ironic considering that I brought the topic up only last week.

[Scottie Dog]

Dual runway operations over this coming festive period will be everyday except Christmas Day and New Year's Day.

[FQTLSteve]

That's very interesting Nigel, so why was it refused when the only alternative then was LGW? What would have happened if they had refused too would it have had to go BRU/AMS etc.

[Rutan16]

They would have done exactly the same declared an emergency and diverted to Manchester anyway.

The crew had pretty much made up their minds where they wanted to go notam or not.

[Rutan16]

Great news if it materialises and as you quote very ironic considering that I brought the topic up only last week.

Apparently Quasi charter flights using the Sun D’orr brand and all economy pretty cramped 738s at times past.

Won’t threaten Easy or indeed the business communities who will continue to route via Zurich and Frankfurt.

[LAX_LHR]

But think, could potentially be easier to get ELAL ‘proper’ via these flights than continuing to attempt the same via a standing start of no Sun’dor flights.

[Betablockeruk]

So, MAG have got their sought after EK service from STN. Wonder if they'll ever get an EMA-DXB?

Is there anything serving STN that could be convinced to give MAN a go?

[LAX_LHR]

Pax wise, the only STN airlines I’m aware of MAN actively trying to court are Pegasus (for SAW) and Air Moldova (for KIV). Pretty much all the others barring the new ones for next year (such as Primera, WOW and Air Mediterranean) already serve MAN.

Pegasus May pay off with 4 weekly SAW applied for, but Air Moldova remain on the wish list.

[Navpi]

So, MAG have got their sought after EK service from STN. Wonder if they'll ever get an EMA-DXB?

Is there anything serving STN that could be convinced to give MAN a go?

Given there was talk of 4 a day into Manchester it's great to pinch this.
And MNG Cargo :)

[LAX_LHR]

It hasn’t been pinched from MAN? This is serving the London market, MAN doesn’t.

Also, the flight numbers for any 4th daily were EK23/24, not EK33/34.

[chaps1954]

It`s more likely to hit the BHX flights as it will overlap their business

[LBIA]

Wonder why Loganair have suddenly stopped taking bookings on its website for the Manchester - Glasgow route as of January 19th 2018?

[daz211]

Pax wise, the only STN airlines I’m aware of MAN actively trying to court are Pegasus (for SAW) and Air Moldova (for KIV). Pretty much all the others barring the new ones for next year (such as Primera, WOW and Air Mediterranean) already serve MAN.

Pegasus May pay off with 4 weekly SAW applied for, but Air Moldova remain on the wish list.

Air Corsica would be a nice addition for Manchester.

[air2000dub]

Wonder why Loganair have suddenly stopped taking bookings on its website for the Manchester - Glasgow route as of January 19th 2018?

Flybe returning to the route with a Q400 to replace Eastern Saab?

[air2000dub]

Surely the problem is that nobody can operate UK domestic feed into LHR at a reasonable rate of return ?

Virgin Red failed A320 45% load factor

BA Leeds have failed A320 50% load factor

That leaves FlyBe , BMI, possibly Loganair using much smaller aircraft but still paying "triple 777 level" landing rates.
And those fees will go up with RW3 not down.

My understanding is that the FlyBe loads are less than spectacular and are only retained as FlyBe will be able to sell the slots on in 18 months.

If HAL have faith in connecting say Derry, Teeside, Carlisle, and Liverpool ( A route which incredibly could not even be sustained by KLM) maybe they should set up an airline themselves and operate the service ?


Flybe loads are very good, especially from EDI...

[LBIA]

Confirmed elsewhere that Loganair is stopping its up to 5x daily Glasgow - Manchester route as of January 19th 2018. Flybe/Eastern Airways will continue to operate up to 3x daily Saab 2000 service.

Wonder if this a sweetener given by Loganair after Flybe/Eastern recently announced its intention to withdraw from the Sheltland routes to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen?

[Albert Hall]

Probably more a reflection of the fact that noone can make money flying small turboprop at average fares in the £50 mark looking at prices for the next few days.

[LAX_LHR]

The withdrawal of Glasgow by Loganair is a strange one given GLA acts as a small hub for the Highlands and Islands, so with MAN gaining 4 new routes next summer fro LOG, 3 of those being direct island routes just 1/2 weekly, one could assume there were enough connections via GLA to give the data and make the island flights viable?

[Skipness One Echo]

MAN-GLA is natural flybe territory, it was a core BA route that went to British Regional then BACON then sold to flybe who passed it (back) to Loganair in friendlier days. Of course now flybe want to see Loganair off “their” territory and vice versa.
But to miss GLA out of flybe’s MAN route structure would really stand out so no surprise they fought for it. Third time Loganair have dropped this route, they lost out to BA back in the 90s too.

Connections are good to have with LM but their bread and butter is p2p. Even BA dropped the codeshare on BRR, one odd reason given being you need to re-clear security at GLA (just like LHR). There is no longer a security circus at CAL, BRR and TRE. It’s such a pleasure to get right on with no fuss.

[VickersVicount]

odd reason given being you need to re-clear security at GLA (just like LHR).
..... good old BA FlyerTalk forum!

[Skipness One Echo]

"Good old" flew GLA-CAL-GLA on G-HIAL back in August. You arrive on stand and are escorted by security and kept well away from any departing passengers. Huge change from BRR in 2008 when my whole bag was thoroughly searched by hand as there was no x-ray machine.

[goldeneye]

So BE drop Sumburgh and leave routes from ABZ, EDI & GLA to LM, and then a few weeks later LM drop Manchester from Glasgow and leave it to BE.

The last T3 flight is the 7th Jan with BE taking it on Q400 from the 8th Jan.

[David Sharpe]

The Manchester to Glasgow route actually appeared in 3rd place in October 2017 for the top airport pairs in Europe adding the most flights when compared to October 2016, the average daily movements for October 2017 were 15 (+9 flights per day) I think this was when Loganair were operating up to 6 x daily services on certain weekdays.


Interestingly, the Aberdeen to Sumburgh appeared in 4th place, adding 8 flights per day with an average of 35 movements per day (this is one of the routes that flyBe are ceasing in early JAN leaving Loganair to operate)

[nigel osborne]

That's very interesting Nigel, so why was it refused when the only alternative then was LGW? What would have happened if they had refused too would it have had to go BRU/AMS etc.

It held for 45 mins over BHX, MAN turned it away as did LHR.

You have to remember airports will however accept flts on a pan pan fuel divert.

BHX last winter turned away a BA 744 and a USAF Galaxy last wintero diversion. Both soon after declared fuel emergencies and were then accepted by BHX.

[Fairdealfrank]

BD was also on GLA-MAN 5x/day in the early 2000s, also on GLA-LBA 3x/day.

[Skipness One Echo]

And Manchester were making no secret of the fact they didn't want said turboprops. Shame as it is a loss of some good connections.

Tell me more.......

[Betablockeruk]

Usually quick on here to complain about arriving at Manchester but was great yesterday evening (Boxing Day) in the late Easyjet wave. Lots of Border Force and baggage wasn't too long in appearing (unlike Prague). Just my bio-metric passport failed and rest of family laughing at me from inside the UK - attendant quick to get me through to reunite with my mocking family. T1 long stay bus was trouble free.

TLV flight was in front of us. Wow!! That's a lot of luggage it carries. Several kitchen sinks.

[Aksai Oiler]

Maybe Kitchen Sinks are better made in Israel? You never know :)

[Espada III]

Whilst having lots of experience on the TLV flight and people bringing huge amounts of luggage it's nothing compared to my flight 20+ years ago to Ghana via Nigeria. Not the kitchen sink, but what seemed to be actual dishwashers..... as handluggage.

[Plane.Silly]

Nothing to Declare....except immense strength

[Scottie Dog]

My apologies for the delay in posting the statistics for November:

Manchester Statistics - November 2017 (Part 1)

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

Egilsstadir, in Iceland appears for the first time as a one-off charter with 197 passengers whilst Southend is added as a new domestic destination with 3549 passengers.

Two domestic statistic are currently missing from the CAA report for November .

Belfast International and Inverness have yet to provide figures

Total passengers for those 2 routes in November 2016 were 28,262

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics

Monthly passengers - 1,730,238+ 1.8%
Annual Total- 25,867,905
Moving Annual Total - 27,745,967 + 9.7%

Monthly Movements - 13,503 -1.5%
Moving Annual Movements - 196,828 + 7.9%


Manchester Statistics -November 2017 (Part 2)

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers

AMSTERDAM..................................... 87,119
DUBLIN.............................................. 84,470
DUBAI................................................ 83,197
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA)............. 66,053
HEATHROW....................................... 58,601
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)............. 51,859
ALICANTE........................................... 43,668
FRANKFURT....................................... 40,484
ORLANDO.......................................... 35,049
ARRICIFE............................................ 33,879
ABU DHABI......................................... 33,275
MALAGA............................................ 29,755
COPENHAGEN.................................... 27,747
BERLIN (SCHONEFELD)....................... 26,951
MUNICH............................................. 25,296
KEFLAVIK............................................ 24,442
LAS PALMAS....................................... 23,203
BELFAST CITY...................................... 23,124
DOHA................................................. 22,281
PAPHOS.............................................. 21,997
FUERTAVENTURA............................... 20,653
HAMBURG.......................................... 19,900
BRUSSELS........................................... 19,730
BARCELONA....................................... 19,951
NEW YORK JFK................................... 18,859

CAA statistics for November are provisional.


Manchester Statistics - November 2017 (Part 3)

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.

Destination......................................Total Pax....Schedule Pax....Charter Pax....Percentage change
ARUBA............................................... 1,042.............. 1,042................... 0.................. 252.03
SALONIKA.......................................... 2,538.............. 2,538................... 0.................. 197.19
KITTILA.................................................. 657 .................... 0 .............. 657.................. 181.97
BOURNEMOUTH................................... 102..................... 0............... 102.................. 168.42
COLOGNE.......................................... 12,807........... 12,807................... 0.................. 155.53
LARNACA............................................. 2,151............. 2,151................... 0.................. 144.43
AGADIR................................................ 7,160............. 7,160................... 0.................. 128.90
HOUSTON............................................ 4,736............. 4,736................... 0.................. 104.14
HURGHADA........................................ 12,992........... 12,992.................. 0.................. 102.08
HERAKLION........................................... 1,121............ 1,121................... 0.................. 95.637
FRANKFURT........................................ 40,484........... 40,484.................. 0.................. 82.912
ST LUCIA............................................... 1,012............. 1,012................... 0................. 53.566
PHUKET................................................ 1,258.................... 0............. 1,258................ 50.478
ANTALYA.............................................. 6,402.............. 6,402................... 0................ 48.435
JEDDAH................................................ 5,865.............. 5,865................... 0................ 41.941
JERSEY.................................................. 3,279.............. 3,279................... 0................ 35.216
TORONTO............................................. 3,263.............. 3,263................... 0................ 32.32
PAPHOS.............................................. 21,997............ 15,660............ 6,337................ 31.813
BILLUND............................................... 2,632.............. 2,632.................... 0............... 30.104
SINGAPORE.......................................... 6,170.............. 6,170.................... 0............... 29.676
GLASGOW............................................ 4,699.............. 4,699.................... 0............... 28.775
SHANNON............................................ 6,696.............. 6,696.................... 0............... 25.983
ISTANBUL........................................... 18,604............ 17,823................ 781............... 25.322
LAHORE................................................ 5,042.............. 5,042.................... 0............... 24.988
BUDAPEST.......................................... 13,975............ 13,975.................... 0............... 23.727

CAA statistics for November are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - November 2017 (Part 4)

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

Foreign_airport……..Total_Pax 2016……..Total Pax 2017……% change
VIENNA………………….. 6,427……….…………….. 6,766……………….. +5.2746
BRUSSELS……………… 16,645……………………. 19,900……………….. +19.555
BEIJING………………….. 6,627 ………………….….. 4,365.………………. -34.13
PRAGUE………………… 15,182……………………. 16,105…….…………. +6.0796
COPENHAGEN………. 27,971……………………. 27,747……………….. -0.801
HELSINKI………………... 8,072…………….…….....9,495……………….. +17.629
PARIS (CDG)…………… 49,502…………………… 51,859…………….... +4.7614
DUSSELDORF…………. 21,408………..…………. 18,848……..……….. -11.96
FRANKFURT MAIN…. 22,133……………………. 40,484….…………… +82.912
MUNICH………………… 21,631..………………….. 25,296………………. +16.943
HONG KONG……………. 9,209….………………… 10,692 ……….……… +16.104
KEFLAVIK……………….. 20,570……………….…… 24,442….……………. +18.824
DUBLIN…………………… 87,120……………………. 84,470………….……. -3.042
MILAN (MALPENSA).. 10,667……………………… 9,883……………….. -7.35
ROME (FIUMICINO)….. 7,211..……………………. 5,790……………….. -19.71
AMSTERDAM…………. 82,006…………………….. 87,119.……………... +6.2349
ISLAMABAD……………. 20,316..…………………… 17,710………………. -12.83
LISBON …………………… 15,179…………………….. 14,815………..…….. -2.398
DOHA…………………….. 26,072…………………….. 22,281………………. -14.54
JEDDAH……………………. 5,865………………………. 4,132……………….. +41.941
SINGAPORE……………… 4,758………………………. 6,170……………….. +29.676
MADRID…………………. 12,550…………………….. 11,567………………. -7.833
STOCKHOLM (ARN)… 14,260…………………….. 13,789………………. -3.303
GENEVA…………………. 11,821…………………….. 13,488….………..... +14.102
ZURICH………………….. 10,844……………………… 10,275 ………………. -5.247
ABU DHABI…………….. 30,858……………….……. 33,275…..…………. +7.8327
DUBAI…………………….. 75,497.……………………. 83,197………………. +10.199
ATLANTA……………….. 11,667…….…………………. 6,125………………. -47.5
CHICAGO…..…………….. 5,665……………………….. 6,416………………. +13.257
HOUSTON………………… 2,320 ……………………….. 6,125………………. +104.14
NEW YORK (JFK)……… 26,233……………………... 18,859………..……. -28.11
NEW YORK (NEWARK)10,243……………………… 11,027………………. +7.654
PHILADELPHIA………….. 9,663……………………… 11,019……..……….. +14.033
HEATHROW……………. 61,246……………………… 58,601……………….. -4.319

CAA statistics for November are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - November 2017 (Part 5)

Comparison of top 25 destinations - November 2007 versus November 2017

Foreign airport...........................November-07...........November-17
HEATHROW....................................... 86,509..................... 58,601
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA)............ 68,216...................... 66,053
DUBLIN.............................................. 58,050..................... 84,470
AMSTERDAM..................................... 45,931..................... 87,119
ALICANTE........................................... 44,084..................... 43,668
DUBAI................................................ 40,614..................... 83,197
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)............ 39,031...................... 51,859
ARRECIFE........................................... 35,507...................... 33,876
GATWICK........................................... 35,099...................... 0
ORLANDO.......................................... 34,565...................... 35,049
MALAGA............................................ 34,480...................... 29,755
FRANKFURT....................................... 26,728...................... 40,484
SHARM EL SHEIK................................ 26,027...................... 0
EDINBURGH....................................... 23,500...................... 9,961
BELFAST CITY..................................... 23,297...................... 23,124
CHICAGO (O'HARE)............................ 22,761........................ 6,416
LAS PALMAS...................................... 22,123....................... 23,203
PAPHOS............................................. 20,434....................... 21,997
FARO.................................................. 18,947...................... 10,283
NEW YORK (NEW YORK).................... 18,510...................... 11,027
PRAGUE............................................. 17,836...................... 16,105
NEW YORK (JFK)................................. 17,095..................... 18,859
ISLAMABAD........................................ 16,490..................... 17,710
GLASGOW........................................... 16,488...................... 4,699
MUNICH.............................................. 15,912..................... 25,296

CAA are statistics for November are provisional.

Manchester Statistics - November 2017 (Part 6)

Major changes to Domestic traffic

Edinburgh - 9,961 +14.6%
Exeter- 10,752 +10.96%
Glasgow - 4,699 +28.775%
Jersey - 3,279 + 35.216%
Newquay - 4,726 +7.1898%

[Manezytom]

Is there any truth in VY OR DY/DI opening bases in Manchester?

[The96er]

DY no, and VY no. VY held slots for x2 based aircraft but have since been handed back. They still hold slots for FCO, TFS and ALC, but they're unlikely to return.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Any other slots of note handed back?

[LAX_LHR]

I think we all knew VY would hand back the based slots. 3 years they have applied for the based aircraft slots and 3 years they have handed them back.

DY still hold slots for 7 weekly flights that are listed as ALC/AGP.

[chinapattern]

Any other slots of note handed back?

LOT Polish have handed back there’s; x2 daily was ridiculous but I thought x1 daily should have been realistic enough.

[LAX_LHR]

Only LOT and the VY based slots handed back.

Things like the 20 based Easyjet, SpiceJet, Air Baltic, Pegasus to SAW and Croatian still live.

[MKY661]

They still hold slots for FCO, TFS and ALC, but they're unlikely to return.

TFS will be operating next summer from what I've seen.

[LAX_LHR]

Nothing loaded yet but TFS would make sense, as well as FCO (but could do with being more than 2 weekly). ALC would be better being co ordinated with Cityflyer in that BA could do the weekend flights and VY the weekday flights.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

None of those destinations actually make a great deal of sense, they are already well served. Further solution of the market only means lower revenue for all and eventually the route being pulled by one or more airline and the eventual raising of the fares.

[LAX_LHR]

Maybe the routes do need high volume though?

Next year, it was genuinely cheaper for me to visit Orlando than Tenerife, so I booked the former. I have to go to a family function in the Alicante area next May and fares are about 40% higher than May 17 so far. I know that’s only 2 anecdotal testimonies but I doubt they are unique.

[MKY661]

Anyone know when the Major EasyJet Expansion will be announced this Month?

[toledoashley]

EasyJet Q1 results are to be announced on the 23rd, so I would expect it before then. Easy don't tend to make those sorts of announcements at their earnings calls, but rather discuss the impact of their announcements.

[planedrive]

Normally a Tuesday or Wednesday for new routes. Would expect them either this week or next - probably at the same time that the Summer schedule from Tegel is announced.

[gojmc]

Do we actually know any further details beyond Genoa (confirmed), nice (in the “system”) and a rumour of another 6 aircraft?

[LAX_LHR]

Air Europa will run a 2 weekly TFS from July until Sept on behalf of Lolo flights after a sell out series of flights this winter.

Times are early morning (0100-ish) ex-MAN.

[CCGE29]

Don't know how they'll make any money.. base fare is £599pp return.

[GrahamK]

Air Europa will run a 2 weekly TFS from July until Sept on behalf of Lolo flights after a sell out series of flights this winter.

Times are early morning (0100-ish) ex-MAN.
Did they actually operate?

[LAX_LHR]

They did operate yes and were 100% full each time!

[SWBKCB]

Interesting...

Details of the recently-agreed enhancement of the UK-China bilateral air services pact show that London routes are excluded from the 50 extra available frequencies


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/london-excluded-from-extra-uk-china-frequencies-444675/

[LAX_LHR]

I believe Air China to PVG and HU to CAN are proposed ex-MAN. Hear occasional rumours about Xiamen Air to Xiamen, but nothing to substantiate the latter.

[EZYPZY]

Do we actually know any further details beyond Genoa (confirmed), nice (in the “system”) and a rumour of another 6 aircraft?

Can’t see another 6 aircraft being based by next summer. Don’t think they have recruited any cabin crew for summer 2018. Presumably they’d need to take on a significant amount of new crew to facilitate such a big increase in based aircraft.

[LAX_LHR]

Ex-Monarch crew perhaps? They have recruited for S18 too, there were courses in Jan/Feb and April.

More recruitment opens later in the month.

[EZYPZY]

It’s a possibility however, unlike LGW or LTN, I haven’t seen any open days for ex Monarch crew advertised up north. As you say though, may open up in the coming weeks.

[LAX_LHR]

I’m sure the special monarch portal had manchester options. I think the Leeds crew had a MAN option too.

Easyjet also have seperate recruitment for the London Airports publicly.

[Plane.Silly]

Assuming the expansion goes ahead, surely EZY would need to invest in additional crew facilities. They can't surely be expected to squeeze into their current 'digs'?

[businessair75]

I’m told there is a sizeable hold pool of cabin crew for MAN and you are forgetting the possibility of wet leasing in the vein of what is currently happening in TXL.

As for crew room facilities, not all flights report at the same time, not even at first wave.

What is interesting is how T1 will cope with expansion from MT, LS and U2 and whether it will mean terminal moves or split terminal for one.

[FFMAN]

As a frequent flyer and user of T1, I find it less interesting and more worrying.

If you think about it the expansion of the above airlines to fill the MON void is the last year equivalent of moving MON from T2 to T1. All those passengers that would have been going over to T2 are now somehow having to be shoehorned into T1.
T1 was creaking at times during peak months - I'm already trying to minimize my business flying to the essential.

By the time T2 is done and T1 is demolished and replaced, I'll probably be retired :ugh:

[irishlad06]

LS will be split terminal - 4-5 aircraft will night stop at T2 every night

[LAX_LHR]

Jet2 taking over the airport!

Crew room in T3, flights from T1 and soon T2, hangar and ground handling. Certainly making use of all the facilities.

[LBAflyer22]

irishlad06

They will just be doing that - Parking at them overnight? I've not heard that they will be setting up, what could be classed as a different operation, over in T2?

easyJet with 20 aircraft seems more feasible to set up 2 operations over two terminals at MAN.

[LAX_LHR]

All of the Jet2 Spain flights, including the A330 ones are currently listed in Chroma as T2. This one would assume if this is correct, pax will be using T2.

[irishlad06]

It will be certain destinations departing from T2 including checkin - boarding for these flights. The A330 will depart from T2 so that should give you an indication as to which destinations.

[spannersatcx]

There's no room at T2 in the mornings as it is!

[MKY661]

I'm sure there's a lot more room than there should have been in T2 this winter and next summer though.

I wonder when this will officially be announced? And I guess once the new Pier opens the rest of the Jet2 flights will move over?

[Sholto Douglas]

Does anybody have a realistic opening date for Pier 1?

[roverman]

April 2019. Terminal extension continues for another 12 months and so pax to be checked in at existing T2 processor and walked though new link in to Pier 1 past construction until terminal extension complete. And then Pier 3 begins!

[Sholto Douglas]

Many thanks for that update Roverman.

[Flightrider]

Split terminal ops are an utter nightmare. Surely there was a better solution to this (e.g. TUI are "incentivised" by MAG to move to T1, Jet2 move to T2 and occupy space left over from TUI and Monarch) to this impending mess?

[chaps1954]

Why would they do that when TUI is almost as big as Jet2 and have more wide body departures.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

It'll certainly be easier when the new capacity at T2 starts to come online.

Is pier three the one with the A380 gates? (Just wondering if/when EK/EY move across).

Cheers!

[Flightrider]

Why would they do that when TUI is almost as big as Jet2 and have more wide body departures.

Because TUI isn't as big - and some of their widebody flying arrives after the first outbound wave of departures has gone, so can use the same stands - as the shorthaul 787 goes out, the long-haul one arrives 30 minutes later from SFB/CUN/PUJ - you get the idea. If you look at this purely from a stand utilisation point, it could fit well.

[Mr A Tis]

Split terminals wil be fun, loss of flexibility in swapping aircraft if the aircraft requires to be towed from terminal to terminal. I assume inbound pax could be off loaded in either terminal? If you’re coming in from Prague but the next leg is Palma then you may have departed T1 but you’d arrive into T2.
Can somebody remind me, in 10 years when this work is done - how many extra gates there will be compared to today. Thanks.

[chaps1954]

Sorry Flightrider I still don`t agree, Their fleet is going to be something like 14/15 aircraft which is only about 3 or 4 short of Jet2 and most of the long haul is in by 08.00 but quiet often much earlier depending on ocean winds

[LAX_LHR]

Tunisair returning with 1 weekly NBE on Tuesday evening starting 1st May. A320 and B737 listed.

[MANFOD]

It'll certainly be easier when the new capacity at T2 starts to come online.

Is pier three the one with the A380 gates? (Just wondering if/when EK/EY move across).

Cheers!

Yes, my understanding is that the A380 gates (3?) will be on Pier 3.

Regarding the missing Pier 2, would that incorporate US Pre-Clearance if it's still a possibility? And if it's not, is Pier 2 no longer on the cards?

[roverman]

Pier 3 starts in 2020 and completes 2022. It has 2 x A380 gates on the eastern side with air-bridges, and another A380 stand off the end which would be bussed out (or possible pier extension in future).

The next pier then to be built (and open in 2024) is currently slated to be No. 4. The programme for Pier 2 is as yet undecided. If USPC happens it is unlikely to be pier-specific.

[MKY661]

April 2019. Terminal extension continues for another 12 months and so pax to be checked in at existing T2 processor and walked though new link in to Pier 1 past construction until terminal extension complete. And then Pier 3 begins!

A bit like what they did in Malaga then when T3 was being built I guess.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Thanks Roverman.

I assume this pier will be used for the larger aircraft - B777, A350 as well as
A380. Do you know if the pier is intended to be larger than pier 1 to cope with the larger aircraft and higher volume of passengers?

The current pier for the A380 is quite tight for space, so hopefully the new pier 4 will allow space for this (not sure why they wouldn't build out the entire pier from the outset) and for some good facilities for the EK, EY of this world...

[roverman]

All piers will have stands for large aircraft, (Manchester has a lot of these types now!) but only Pier 3 has A380 stands. Pier 1 has 4 x Code E stands with airbridges and a further 2 just off the end which are remotes. The official publicity images have had a job keeping up with the design changes but there should be something reasonably current on the MAN-TP website now. You will still see well out of date images in the uncontrolled media, including the early 'glittering palace' concept shots produced by the consultants back in 2014. Detailed design is not yet done on Pier 3 but it will almost certainly be a little larger than Pier 1, which is 225 x 24 metres, on 3 levels.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Many thanks Roverman.

I hadn't expected so many Code E stands on the current pier, albeit I suppose they will be MARS and able to take multiple smaller aircraft (we don't have quite as many B777/B787 or A350 just yet, but we do have lots of A330s!)

I wonder what the thinking is in not building out pier 3 to the full length. I've been bussed off an A380 before, it's no mean feat, and I can't imagine any of the current/prospective A380 (or B77X) operators would enjoy this much!

[FFMAN]

there should be something reasonably current on the MAN-TP website now.

Just looked at the website....
1. Given its prominent position at the heart of the site, the lack of a Pier 2 will make the whole project look 'cheap-ass'
2. The images show a constructed stubby Pier 4 which almost abuts Pier C at T1 which would render both useless
3. The images still show the green fields and car pars of 'Airport City' still un-developed.....hmmm

Are you sure these images are up to date or is this the reality?

[LAX_LHR]

No in depth analysis yet but December saw over 1.8m pax, up 1.5% on Dec 16.

Considering the loss of Monarch and some Ryanair reductions, I find it astounding MAN has managed to remain in growth figures, a big well done to all involved.

Jan may be down slightly. Granted it’s very anecdotal but I’ve passed through T3 twice this month already and even in ‘peak’ times it’s quieter than usual.

[BHX5DME]

Yes great result bearing in mind the weather too !

[chaps1954]

I think MAN was lucky with weather as most of it missed us unlike BHX

[Plane.Silly]

In Comparison to the other major MAG airport, STN actually dropped slightly (1.2%) in Dec, with a 2017 total of 25.9m, Mainly from weather and Ryanair crew issues
[from LTN/STN threads]

So yes i would agree, MAN did pretty good

[eye2eye5]

Note that weather related diversions are still accounted for at the original destination airport in CAA statistics when they are published.

[chaps1954]

But a lot were cancelled which wouldn`t be counted

[eye2eye5]

Correct, cancellations don't count but folks tend to forget cancellations which occurred in previous years when making comparisons.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

No in depth analysis yet but December saw over 1.8m pax, up 1.5% on Dec 16.

Considering the loss of Monarch and some Ryanair reductions, I find it astounding MAN has managed to remain in growth figures, a big well done to all involved.

Jan may be down slightly. Granted it’s very anecdotal but I’ve passed through T3 twice this month already and even in ‘peak’ times it’s quieter than usual.

Here's the press release.

http://mediacentre.magairports.com/mags-three-airports-serve-4-million-more-passengers-in-2017/

[LAX_LHR]

The Jewish Telegraph now reporting that ELAL are close to launching flights. Says should be up and running by April but could be as early as March.

[GrahamK]

The Jewish Telegraph now reporting that ELAL are close to launching flights. Says should be up and running by April but could be as early as March.
Will it be El Al mainline, or Up?

[LAX_LHR]

Up is being absorbed back into mainline. Was originally down as Sun’dor but supposedly mainline now.

[LAX_LHR]

Thomas Cook have brought forward the launch of Marrakech from 4th November to 10th October.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Does anyone know what (if any) plans exist to renovate the existing part of the terminal 2 building (including the remaining pier) as part of the Transformation Programme?

Cheers in advance.

[Espada III]

Up is being absorbed back into mainline. Was originally down as Sun’dor but supposedly mainline now.

The quality of reporting in the Jewish Telegraph is not of the quality one would guarantee the flights will commence anytime close to the dates mentioned.

As mentioned previously, El Al will have to compete with a strong EZY product. People I have spoken to who remember (like me) the last time El Al flew into Manchester, are hoping the timings will be a lot better. No one wants a very early departure from Tel Aviv nor a late (after say 22:00) arrival back. They would be better to night stop in Manchester but that would be very unlikely.

[LAX_LHR]

The times in Chroma for ELAL are 1930 arrival and 2100 departure.

[canberra97]

Does anyone know what (if any) plans exist to renovate the existing part of the terminal 2 building (including the remaining pier) as part of the Transformation Programme?

Cheers in advance.

There are loads of images online showing what the whole redevelopment will look like once completed just do a search plus on YouTube but to answer your question yes there is as the whole of Terminal 2 will be totally transformed but an easy search online will show you CGI images plus videos.