Manchester-2

[LFC22]

I saw the new 'Premium Terminal' recently. It resembles a school woodwork project.
Looks like an ark.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58375717_412859036164742_8461117630755897344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1 05&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=9af5b15b3f72e9290719ea6826c2a839&oe=5D33D4C4

[Pin Head]

Best place to get picked up at MAN to avoid the pick up tax? Arriving as a passenger with Oman Air

I used to walk to the train station or the garage nearby. Is this still possible? or any other suggestions.

Regards

Pin

[lfc84]

easyjet add MAN-JER from 1 July

[ETOPS]

Got picked a couple of nights ago from T2 by usual local taxi firm. Meeting was in ground level of new T2 multi story car park and driver has a swipe card to let him out. Fare was the standard I usually pay so didn't appear to get charged the fee...

[ZOOKER]

LFC22, splendid observation!

MANFOD, certainly not 1st Year, I believe I can see Mortice and Tenon jointing, which comes later in the syllabus.

What is interesting is how small it is, and also, does its wooden construction point to it being a temporary structure?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Best place to get picked up at MAN to avoid the pick up tax? Arriving as a passenger with Oman Air

I used to walk to the train station or the garage nearby. Is this still possible? or any other suggestions.

It is still possible, but it’s not legit. People do it but it isn’t without the risk of being spotted and thus fined, I saw one getting photographed for a fine just the other week.

[KelvinD]

I have just experienced the misery of MAN for the first time in a couple of years. For the uninitiated, following the signs off the M56 for Term 3 Departures can lead to temporary insanity and a breakdown for the driver. We were not the only car to find itself in the 'Meet & Greet' area. Eventually the nice man on the intercom (took him 3 minutes to answer!) raised the barrier and gave us good directions on how to get to where we wanted to be. Once inside the Terminal, I looked at the departure board for my flight and it was not there. I asked a young lady who seemed to be hanging around to answer passengers' questions how I could discover where my flight was departing from. "Oh well, it probably won't appear on that. You need to go through Security and to the gates to discover which gate you are boarding at". That was really useful: "How do I find which gate I need?" "Go to the gate to find out!. Smashing!
The security screening was painless in procedure but painfully slow. Two lines of people were queuing to be screened by 2 people who moved the trays back and forth. I asked the cheerful, very helpful bloke who was fronting the operation, cracking jokes, telling people what to do with their Colgate, Kindles etc if the airport was skint. He asked why would I think that and I pointed out the complete screening stations that were sat there idle, all powered up and nobody to screen. I wondered if the airport had spent all its pocket money on a few hundred grand's worth of nice shiny kit but now didn't have the funds to pay the staff to operate it!
Once through the X-Ray thing, I was approached by the manual screener. In my hand, I was clutching a copy of my boarding pass, as it had come from my printer, on a sheet of A4 paper. Pointing to the paper he asked "What's that"? I resisted the temptation to answer "A railway carriage" and instead answered "Paper". "Oh OK".
Then, when once more dressed, I set off to find my gate but my flight was not to be seen. I then noticed an Etihad flight which just happened to be going to the same place at the same time as me (Knock). I watched the board recycle, update etc a few times to see if it would confirm this was a code share flight and the word "Flybe" would soon appear. It never did. So, instead of flying on BE663, I flew EY6066.
On the return flight all was well as we all boarded a bus to take us from the aircraft to the terminal. And then computer said "No" when the bus driver tried to get the doors to open. He waved 2 different ID cards at the card reader. No joy. He spoke to some via the intercom. No joy. He pushed a selection of buttons (presumably an access code) and computer still said no. Eventually, after more words with the intercom the doors opened.
Overall, nice terminal building with handfuls of money spent on the new parking facilities but as an overall experience, I would rate it as "a shed"!

[spannersatcx]

Best place to get picked up at MAN to avoid the pick up tax? Arriving as a passenger with Oman Air

I used to walk to the train station or the garage nearby. Is this still possible? or any other suggestions.

Regards

Pin

the garage no longer exists, and it's a £100 fine to pick up at the rail station.

[LFC22]

LFC22, splendid observation!

MANFOD, certainly not 1st Year, I believe I can see Mortice and Tenon jointing, which comes later in the syllabus.

What is interesting is how small it is, and also, does its wooden construction point to it being a temporary structure?
If you look at the mock-ups, it doesn't really come across as a large luxurious facility. More like a small lounge with a mix of modern/contemporary design.

[Dairyground]

Best place to get picked up at MAN to avoid the pick up tax? Arriving as a passenger with Oman Air

I used to walk to the train station or the garage nearby. Is this still possible? or any other suggestions.

If you get as far as the railway station, then a five-minute train ride to Heald Green might be a possibility. The train fare will be less than the airport access charge and there is plenty of waiting space. The drawback is that the appropriate trains only run once an hour.

[Pin Head]

thanks - keep them coming.

Please share your hot tips.

I am coming from Bangkok where it is the opposite, pull up, drop off, drive on, it works, the airport is 10x better. Good old blighty!

[double_barrel]

Please share your hot tips.



My hot tip: Avoid Manchester!

What a truly awful airport for passengers. Some recent experiences.

A few days ago my partner was flying out on KLM. Her frequent flier status entitles her to 3 bags - and she had shopped to take full advantage of it!. The check-in agent (non KLM, but that dreadful ground service company they use) absolutely refused to believe that she was entitled to the 3rd bag and demanded that she pay 100s of $ for the extra bag. When my partner insisted, and showed her a screen grab from the KLM website, the check-in witch literally stood up and screamed abuse into her face. She was kept for 20 minutes at the checkin desk and abused. The woman's fellow check-in staff were telling her to calm down - but not actually helping. Eventually a KLM supervisor appeared, asked what the problem was, looked at the boarding pass and immediately confirmed her entitlement. Subsequently KLM staff were extremely apologetic and actually seemed to be encouraging her to raise a formal complaint, which she will do.

A few days later, I was told I was not entitled to use the fast track lane through security by a bloke at the entrance who refused to believe that I was entitled to it despite EK checkin staff (unlike KLM, EK use their own staff) reiterating that I was. This can make a huge difference in MAN, so I stuck to my guns, I was quite prepared to go back to the EK desk and ask them to explain to this bloke. Eventually he let me through. Subsequent automatic scanning detects entitlement, so what was the purpose of an ill-informed bloke at the start of the line?

And for some reason, every-time I go through at MAN I am pounced on by security and all my stuff gone through and handled and then they finally say 'I don't know why that was selected for search'. I really don't understand, those very same bags have been screened at dozens of airports in the last few weeks but only MAN consistently wants to hand check my smalls.

[MAN777]

Double barrel

So you have a few moments with Some staff not all MAG. Seems to me that there is either a lack of training of understanding of procedures from a minority of staff which has tainted your view of MAN.

With an airport the size of MAN with a multitude of contracted companies all doing their own thing its inevitable that there will be misalignment of procedures. Unfortunatley the actions of a few spoil the efforts of many !

I travel through MAN and lots of other airports all over the world extensively throughout year and believe me when I say MAN isnt anywhere near bad, yes a bit shabby and staffed by underpaid cheeky Mancs and scousers, but actually considering the trafic levels inside a huge building site its amazing it runs at all. I have seen far far worse elsewhere.

So rather than avoid MAN its my preferred departure and arrival option in the UK

To the staff at MAN I say “well done” in the trying circumstances and commercial climate you work in.

[double_barrel]

MAN77. I admire your support for MAN staff. But I must say that I also fly extensively in Europe, USA and Africa, maybe I have been unlucky, but my experience with MAN has been consistently problematic compared with even small chaotic African airports. It does seem strange, the airport itself looks clean and efficient and the infrastructure works well, but the staff seem disastrous. My pilot colleagues who fly out of MAN are constantly complaining about the unhelpful security screening. And why is it only MAN that insists that I lug my soft bags to a separate belt after check-in?

[spannersatcx]

So the issue was really with KLM from what I am reading!

[double_barrel]

So the issue was really with KLM from what I am reading!

Just the opposite. KLM were super helpful when they finally got involved.

[Scottie Dog]

But, and this is the important part, it was KLM's appointed handling agent that was causing the problem. It seems that the airport gets blamed, and tarred with the same brush, for many things that are outside of its control. Your comments with regards to security are however totally valid as this is wholly staffed by MAG.

[chaps1954]

Then it is KLM as they employ the handling agent not MAG, perhaps if the airlines paid better money you would get
better handling as those guys are paid peanuts.
As for security I would rather be stopped every time than allowed to walk on/off with a weapon and get through, again wages
are crap so you know the saying about peanuts. I would expect the same security at every airport as if one is lax it won`t take long for
that to be found out by terrorists, perhaps security should be run by a central agency like border control as they are equally as important

[double_barrel]

But, and this is the important part, it was KLM's appointed handling agent that was causing the problem.

That's true. Emirates appear to use their own staff with much better service as a result.

[chaps1954]

Try Jet2 they are self handling as well and are great

[The96er]

the check-in witch literally stood up and screamed abuse into her face. She was kept for 20 minutes at the checkin desk and abused. The woman's fellow check-in staff were telling her to calm down - but not actually helping. Eventually a KLM supervisor appeared

This all sounds and embellished to me, especially when you resort to calling somebody a 'witch'. The Supervisor you referred to would also have been from the same handling agent. KL/AF only have a couple of their own employees at MAN who wouldn't get involved with issues like that.

EK do not employ their own Check-in staff either, this is handled by Dnata, who, although are owned by the same grouping, are none the less still accountable to the airline and have themselves been subjected to an improvement notice by EK on at least one occasion that I know of.

The only airline that employ their own check-in staff at MAN are Jet2.

[double_barrel]

This all sounds and embellished to me, especially when you resort to calling somebody a 'witch'. The Supervisor you referred to would also have been from the same handling agent. KL/AF only have a couple of their own employees at MAN who wouldn't get involved with issues like that.


It is true that I was not there, but I was intermittently on the end of the phone in real time and I think it is a pretty accurate account. It was an astonishing outburst which I did hear parts of. It is certainly an objective fact that she spent over 20 minutes at the checkin desk being told something that was untrue and having her attempts to provide additional information dismissed.

I stand corrected on the affiliation of the supervisor, but subsequently at the gate she was directed by that same person to someone that she understood to be a KLM person who was given a colorful account of the situation. She may have been mistaken over who was employed by who.


EK do not employ their own Check-in staff either, this is handled by Dnata, who, although are owned by the same grouping, are none the less still accountable to the airline and have themselves been subjected to an improvement notice by EK on at least one occasion that I know of.

The only airline that employ their own check-in staff at MAN are Jet2.

Thanks, I stand corrected. I received excellent treatment at the EK checkin a day or 2 later and had the (obviously wrong) impression that they were EK staff.

(can you shed any light on the need to carry soft bags to a separate belt after checking them in? I cannot recall that being required anywhere else for a long time)

[brian_dromey]

I think they do wear EK uniforms when serving EK flights, but they are not direct EK employees. Similarly Menzies staff wear EI uniforms. I think whoever handles TCX wear some kind of scarf/tie, from memory.

[double_barrel]

I think they do wear EK uniforms when serving EK flights, but they are not direct EK employees.

Thanks! I was doubting my sanity! I was sure they wore EK kit.
I can see a risk there for the airlines, it pleases the punters when all goes well, but they get the blame when things go wrong.

[zfw]

"Subsequent automatic scanning detects entitlement,"

Err no it doesnt, you can buy fast track labels, have been through many times flying in lower scrunt class on various airlines and jumped the lengthy queue.

[nef]

A question regarding the SQ SIN-MAN-IAH flight - Do through pax SIN<>IAH have to get off at MAN and clear immigration or security and then re-board, or do they just stay on the aircraft?

[MKY661]

A question regarding the SQ SIN-MAN-IAH flight - Do through pax SIN<>IAH have to get off at MAN and clear immigration or security and then re-board, or do they just stay on the aircraft?

I think they get off and then just go through the transfers area, but I could be wrong on that. I'm sure I've seen a Singapore Transfer sign in the Arrivals Alleyway leading to Passport Control.

[Mr Mac]

New
I have done this flight on both sectors but not straight through from SIN to IAH . I believe option is offered to stay on board in business at least. My sister in law was on this mornings flight in economy so I will ask her and see if she confirms this. I know on EK when coming up from Jakarta to KL then onto DXB I was told I could stay on board but would have to put up with cleaners coming around so it maybe same.

Cheers
Mr MAC

[UnderASouthernSky]

I think they get off and then just go through the transfers area, but I could be wrong on that. I'm sure I've seen a Singapore Transfer sign in the Arrivals Alleyway leading to Passport Control.

I travelled SIN-IAH on this service late last year and all on board who were continuing on to IAH had to deplane, go through a small transit/security area near the immigration hall before going upstairs to the departure lounge and re-boarding a short time later. It was security, but no border checks as we stayed airside.
Was told this also happens in the other direction.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

DfT rules mandate departing passengers must reclear security, this is why double drops are so rare now.

[boredintheairport]

DfT rules mandate departing passengers must reclear security, this is why double drops are so rare now.


What about the other way around? For e.g. the Ethiopian Addis - Brussels - Manchester flight. Do passengers exit, clear security and re-board in Brussels?

[Mr Mac]

Skipness
I agree they are rare, the last EK one I did was the Jakarta to KL then onto DXB , I do not remember doing one since that on LH. Sister in law confirmed as Unders southern sky posted everybody off at Man. When I am coming off I tend to want get off and get home so can honestly say I had not noticed anouncment or sign. Back in the day when there were multiple stops you often stayed on or were moved out to departure gate to allow cleaners in as I recall.
Regards
Mr Mac

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

The rumour has been going for 36 years that I am aware of, now the new Thai president says they need to do a thorough study of BKK-MAN https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1673488/thai-to-submit-b156bn-new-plane-purchase-plan-to-cabinet, so maybe another 4 years of rumour

[TURIN]

All passengers disembark (deplane isn't a word please stop using it). There is a crew change, catering, cleaning, engineering etc need access. Crew need to man the doors if refuelling so it's just easier to get them all off.
Hope this helps.

[inOban]

I'd never seen the word sortation before it appeared in earlier posts. Much worse than deplane.

[BHX5DME]

2,387,424 pax

Rolling 12 end 30.04.19 now 28,838,398 up 3.22%

Ian

[Scottie Dog]

Firstly the April statistics in detail:
https://i.ibb.co/GHn0qCc/Screenshot-409.png

At the start of the year I began to keep a spreadsheet showing projected statistics for the next few years. With the April figures now being available I thought I would share by data with you.:
https://i.ibb.co/718MBZx/Screenshot-410.png

[eggc]

Repoted on Sky News just now that VS has bid for TCX long haul. With the recent VS purchase of BEE it would make perfect sense, maximisng the connections that now offers along with removing duplications of the VS network by TCX, freeing up a/c to expand their long haul network. Would put around long haul 15 frames based at MAN I guess. Not sure what it would mean for TCX short haul, but is that even up for sale ? Either way a bold statement from VS about their plans for MAN.

[Scottie Dog]

Slightly late but here is Update #88 courtesy of the MANTP Project team:

https://i.ibb.co/ckdprGR/Screenshot-389.png

https://i.ibb.co/QYTrNjp/Screenshot-390.png

https://i.ibb.co/gbYzsP0/Screenshot-391.png

https://i.ibb.co/JxTTQzr/Screenshot-392.png

https://i.ibb.co/qkpgFnY/Screenshot-393.png

https://i.ibb.co/9wKH49k/Screenshot-394.png

https://i.ibb.co/mq8hhzC/Screenshot-395.png

[Scottie Dog]

Update #89 from the MANTP Project Team

https://i.ibb.co/tD0dnJQ/Screenshot-396.png

https://i.ibb.co/Q9W9FZH/Screenshot-403.png

https://i.ibb.co/ydgSRNP/Screenshot-404.png

https://i.ibb.co/Kh61fmY/Screenshot-405.png

https://i.ibb.co/4spb0KX/Screenshot-406.png

https://i.ibb.co/bg6MC7p/Screenshot-407.png

https://i.ibb.co/s3cyHTX/Screenshot-408.png

[TURIN]

I'd never seen the word sortation before it appeared in earlier posts. Much worse than deplane.

Me neither, just had to look it up as it has appeared again in the posts above.
At least its in the dictionary. But so is de-p***e.
Sortation-meaning (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sortation)

[boredintheairport]

While I agree that what Scotland needs is a single, central belt airport, I dont think it would make much difference here. The main market for this flight is inbound Chinese tourists, many of which tend to book as part of a package tour. What airport they fly in to is irrelevant - as they'll be boarding a pre-booked bus and will be whisked off to the first of their many destinations - probably Edinburgh to start anyway, then on to other destinations around Scotland.

Any business travel, or Scottish tourists heading to Beijing will just be a happy extra, but certainly not the main market for this flight. As such, I don't think a single central airport would make much difference in this case.

As for the United / Delta examples - i'm not convinced. Look at Manchester, with its much larger catchment, yet it's still narrowbody central to the US. With the exception of the United flight which upgraded this year, it's all 757s. These aircraft are perfect for operating flights to the UK, freeing up widebodies for flights further in to Europe.
I cannot think of any narrow body flights to the U.S. from Manchester. You are very out of date.

it's A330 and 747 to Atlanta and New York in combinations and A330 to the remaining airports of Boston, Las Vegas and LA.

[Rutan16]

MANCHESTER has just two US carrier operated flights a day since Delta seceded Atlanta and JFK to their UK branch with a mix of A332 AND 744 aircraft .

UNITED are operating daily Newark on a refurbished 763 at the moment whilst American have canned JFK (an ongoing process from them in dehubbing New York to focus on a very few major O&D markets) and as of this month reduced capacity on their remaining Philadelphia daily having switched to a now rather old and on its last legs 763 operation though the summer. It’s supposed to switch to a 788 Dreamliner later in the year however I await with baited breath as these are in short supply and mostly at Chicago right now.

[PDXCWL45]

I cannot think of any narrow body flights to the U.S. from Manchester. You are very out of date.

it's A330 and 747 to Atlanta and New York in combinations and A330 to the remaining airports of Boston, Las Vegas and LA.

I believe recently United ended the last 757 flight to Manchester and replaced it with a 767 300/400 to operate the Newark route. Manchester is now all widebody across the Atlantic including Canada.

[TURIN]

MANCHESTER has just two US carrier operated flights a day since Delta seceded Atlanta and JFK to their UK branch with a mix of A332 AND 744 aircraft .

UNITED are operating daily Newark on a refurbished 763 at the moment whilst American have canned JFK (an ongoing process from them in dehubbing New York to focus on a very few major O&D markets) and as of this month reduced capacity on their remaining Philadelphia daily having switched to a now rather old and on its last legs 763 operation though the summer. It’s supposed to switch to a 788 Dreamliner later in the year however I await with baited breath as these are in short supply and mostly at Chicago right now.




The 787 has been pushed back to January 2020.

[CabinCrewe]

Cathay Pacific HKG to stay A350-1000 Year round instead of reducing to W19/20 A350-900

[chaps1954]

I`ve noticed that they keep slipping the odd A350X already not June as they said as there is one in today

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Crew need to man the doors if refuelling so it's just easier to get them all off.

Pretty sure it's mandated under DfT rules that they need to reclear security before they can depart on a double drop run. It's why they really went out of fashion.Watched a 1/2 load on an Air Transat A330 sleepily troop off at Glasgow, go up a flight of stairs through gate security and then join the queue to reboard the same aircraft bound for MAN.

[spannersatcx]

Cathay Pacific HKG to stay A350-1000 Year round instead of reducing to W19/20 A350-900

incorrect, 1000 comes back on 1st Dec, before that the 900 operates.

[spannersatcx]

I`ve noticed that they keep slipping the odd A350X already not June as they said as there is one in today

It's whatever equipment is available, mostly changes are due to AOG's, the flt is still sold as a 900.

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - March 2019

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new destinations were served in March 2019.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,045,310 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for March.
Isle of Man does not appear in the initial report. In 2018 they had 13,938 passengers

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 2,067,950 +3.38%
Annual Total - 5,659,146
Moving Annual Total - 28,657,684 +2.42%
Monthly Movements - 15,131 +0.74%
Annual Movements - 42.002
Moving Annual Movements - 201,680 -0.26%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/333x465/screenshot_411__70aefd76c7fc07fcb84a420537c8a4c28bd4d742.png

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/281x449/screenshot_412__0cc487cadad65d4df1cb65568aa964478ea15890.png

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/293x607/screenshot_413__9eec668993cd8f212b73c3fa35c20d70101241d7.png

Comparison of top 25 destinations - March 2009 versus March 2019
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/327x464/screenshot_414__f67c3ec59359051058473e26ebabeefec9819b38.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/312x324/screenshot_415__20891eb05a6331ca379510044b8344526cb07c4d.png
The CAA figure for Isle of Man is missing.
CAA statistics for March are provisional.

[Navpi]

20 years.....end of.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7029081/Four-men-arrested-Manchester-Airport-hurled-abuse-terrified-passengers.html

[Plane mad 134]

Just looked at flights on Ryanair to Frankfurt and unfortunately it appears like they will end the route from October.

[BHX5DME]

Lots of MAN flights diverting to BHX :-)

[Suzeman]

Report here from the local rag

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-flights-grounded-manchester-airport-16299154

Suggested elsewhere that a power surge has disabled some or all of the fuelling system

[wiggy]

What about the other way around? For e.g. the Ethiopian Addis - Brussels - Manchester flight. Do passengers exit, clear security and re-board in Brussels?

That would deoend on how the Belgian authorities want to play it....it’s down to them as to whether a complete rescreened is required for transit passengers at one of their airports, not the UK’s DfT.

[GrahamK]

Icelandair will be using a Q400 of Air Iceland instead of the usual 757 for the next couple of days

[pwalhx]

I have just flown Prague - Brussels-Manchester thanks to last nights slight problem, I didn't have to go through security at Brussels between flights.

[easyflyer83]

The DfT here in the UK stipulate that everyone on an aircraft departing the UK must clear UK security. Hence the transiting SQ pax disembarking and clear security before re-boarding. If, for example, the SQ routes MAN-LHR-SIN then passengers wouldn't need to clear security in LHR because they have already been subjected to the UK security process. For those of you who connect with BA from MAN through LHR T5 you'll know that you don't clear security again because you cleared it in MAN. If you transfer to another LHR terminal you clear security again but presumably that is because you fall into the channel of other transferring pax from destinations outside the UK.

Within Europe there isn't always that stipulation and that is why in the parts of many European airports that service European flights, arriving and departing passengers mix.

[Check Mags On]

All passengers disembark (deplane isn't a word please stop using it). .

Deplane is a word in the USA is it not.

[lfc84]

Ryanair:
Power outage at Manchester Airport
24 May 2019 • 12:25
Due to a power outage at Manchester Airport affecting all airlines we have unfortunately had to cancel a small number of flights.

All affected customers have been notified by email and SMS message advising them of their options of a free move or refund.

We apologise for these cancellations which are completely outside of our control.

[Scottie Dog]

Holidays have delayed my posting of MANTP Updates.

MANTP Update #90 - courtesy of the MANTP Project Team
Part 1

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1310x735/screenshot_416__0d49f49b40843fd3dd46cff2c626792c5ec4ab62.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1308x738/screenshot_417__52d68a9ec1c220ed2248da5a89272411d007d613.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1311x734/screenshot_418__c5b4f4bd7abc7ee7c380fbd0870f684f1142e81e.png
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1304x729/screenshot_419__d29d839572c7f6671be2eeac28fb4e3d027f9571.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1315x729/screenshot_420__74a8387c63ca5e5285d673f0c8e3b87c8de55607.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1304x735/screenshot_421__6a0c332c6fd6326c351a97d63ec075e8bed0e998.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1304x733/screenshot_422__4f3cf19a2895cf723a5b15992752ad4acf8f6dd9.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1308x735/screenshot_423__a311cae977a53449094848c731ef0e9c3abc8054.png
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[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #91 - courtesy of the MANTP Project Team

Part 1
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[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #92 - courtesy of the MANTP Project Team
Part 1

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[FFMAN]

On the subject of airport development but on a slightly less grand scale: the new private terminal. The images shown earlier on this thread appeared to show a moderately impressive structure, but having taxied past it a few times in the last few weeks I'm seeing something emerging that looks like a cross between a wooden bicycle shed and a golf driving range. I know appearances can be deceptive but it doesn't look much bigger than the Emirates lounge in T1. My experience of folks that can afford to pay for this kind of exclusivity convinces me that they want to be wowed rather than underwhelmed
Does anyone know what the intended capacity is?

[eggc]

Its £50 per passenger and well within reach of non-millionaires

[LFC22]

I really don't think it's an executive terminal, certainly doesn't looks like one. A rowdy stag do family flying to Benidorm could get in. It's more of a lounge, away from the hustle and bussle of the main terminals.

[FFMAN]

I really don't think it's an executive terminal, certainly doesn't looks like one. A rowdy stag do family flying to Benidorm could get in. It's more of a lounge, away from the hustle and bussle of the main terminals.

Ah, making more sense now. So 'private transfer to aircraft' could result in a blingy streched hummer with Stella from Urmston flashing her boobs at bemused pilots as the hen do is whisked to its Ryanair flight to Malaga. Got it :ok:
On a serious note though if I was flying with Emirates (say) and had lounge access I'd just use their lounge

[SWBKCB]

Five Chinese carriers have filed applications with the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), seeking rights to operate new routes to European cities and points in North Asia....

...Juneyao seeks rights to operate a thrice-weekly service from Shanghai Pudong to Manchester in March 2020, its second destination in the United Kingdom after it applied to operate Shanghai Pudong-London in July this year.

Flight - Chinese carriers seek rights to Europe, North Asia (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/chinese-carriers-seek-rights-to-europe-north-asia-458734/)

[Plane.Silly]

On a serious note though if I was flying with Emirates (say) and had lounge access I'd just use their lounge

In theory, you could use either, but not both.
On one hand, you have a very good lounge, but you have to go through check-in, security and boarding like everyone else
On the other, you'd have a quick and quiet check-in, security and driven straight to the plane, but you wouldn't have the great lounge and probably have to climb stairs to get to the airbridges

Choice is up to you. I was at the runway viewing area recently, saw the building and it's not as big as i thought it was going to be. To top it all off, it's right next to the ground run area and taxiways, not the noise you'd want to hear in a lounge

[ZOOKER]

eggc,

I believe prices will start at £50 pp, and that's for the one-way basic package. The Full Monty is nearer £200 pp for departure+arrival.

Kerr-chinggg!

[EGPO]

Hi people , I'm not familiar with Manchester very much, apart from Flying there once from Edinburgh, it's not a place I've really looked at.
( I'd like to watch the movements at the pub there ), but my question is how many terminals are there ? The one that faces the runways , was that not the ' original ' terminal.
But looking at the airiel photos , there appears to be airbridge gates a fair way from the first terminal, what exactly is all this work for ? Is there a terminal 3? . How big is the current Terminal 2?.
And also will these changes allow the likes of the A380 , A350-1000 and 777X to have extra gates, I was under the impression there is only one current dedicated A380 stand for Emirates?..
Sorry if this seems a strange question, but those pictures are great but not knowing which building is which, hence my asking .
Thank you in advance.

[Squawk 6042]

T1 is a much modified version of the original terminal, which had piers A, B and C. It is the central terminal of the current three. The EK 380 currently uses T1.

T2, to the west of T1, is currently being expanded/re-built, see up the thread for many reports on this. It should be capable for all the new wide body types.

T3, to the east of T1, is the smallest and most crowded. I usually fly KLM to AMS and then proceed elsewhere and so this is the terminal I know best and will be there again week-end after next.

[Plane.Silly]

EGPO

If you're just wanting to watch movements, i'd recommend the Runway Visitor Park viewing area as well.
Its £5 for 2hrs, £10 for 4hrs or £12 all day, per Car, so if you bring a friend or 2, it's a really cheap day out, ideal if you want to bring a few beers and a cool bag from home (will be a dam side cheaper than airside)

Best time to get there would be for the morning rush, when the majority of flights use the main runway (23R/05L) so you get a much better view than if you went for the afternoon when Runway 2 opens and departures are a bit harder to see

[Scottie Dog]

Just a brief correction with regards to runway opening times. Certainly Mon-Fri it's dual runway operations all day from, if I remember correctly, 0615 until around 2000. I don't recall the weekend times.

[BHX5DME]

Best place by far is the Southside as the view from the AVP is not as good as it was due to building work.
Park in Moss Lane then enter the Country Park by a gate across the road walk around 10 mins and then go up the bank where views are brilliant,
You can also park the other end of the park off the Wilmslow Rd by the hotel but the parking is limited,
Southside is free whilst the AVP is a bit of a rip off.

[chaps1954]

I totally agree with BHX5DME unless weather is wet because there is no shelter at all and if it is hot take water (and food) with you

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #93 - courtesy of the MANTP Project Team

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[EGPO]

Thank you guys for all your kind explanation of the airport, and the information about the best viewing spots, very informative and interesting.
Much appreciated.
Would be nice to see them close up , although living near DSA my home is right under the flight path for landing from the East for MAN the Peking flight woke me it wasxso low and loud , crossed over Near the M180 junction 2 at only 12000 ft, I always know when the PIA and EK flights are heading in as they to are low and loud, on clear days I've had stunning views with my wee telescope.
I note that as they head west toward the horizon the turn to port slightly .
But even the KLM and easyJet flights are easy to spot.
Lucky here for spotting, we have MAN , LBA where some Jet2 757's really rumble over at 9000 then of course DSA, and the steady stream of , Wizzair or Ryanair doing circuits .
But I'm definitely taking your advice band will take the train to the airport, and have a day spotting there , so much variety.
Thanks again guys

[All names taken]

Hi EGPO

Since you mentioned you will be arriving by train and not by car, I understand that the Aviation Viewing Park is free to enter on foot. I went last year and it was great - my kids absolutely loved it.
You only pay to park. The facilities are pretty good and you get up close and personal with the Concorde that's displayed in the hangar. Honestly a great day out.
Enjoy yourself.

[BHX5DME]

Hi EGPO

Since you mentioned you will be arriving by train and not by car, I understand that the Aviation Viewing Park is free to enter on foot. I went last year and it was great - my kids absolutely loved it.
You only pay to park. The facilities are pretty good and you get up close and personal with the Concorde that's displayed in the hangar. Honestly a great day out.
Enjoy yourself.

The view from AVP has been reduced by the building of the new 'driving range' - well that is what it looks like at the moment but will be executive transfer etc
But still a great facility with the café / toilets etc, don't forget the Concorde is not free !
For photos the Southside is perfect.
Why cant MAG have similar facilities at Stansted - it is a nightmare there trying to see stuff



*

[VickersVicount]

similar facilities at Stansted - it is a nightmare there trying to see stuff
Though arguably less of interest to see...

[eye2eye5]

Is parking available at Premiair or are you shuttled there from the main car parks?

[Scottie Dog]

It's not actually open yet, but the "blurb" refers to it having it's own parking facility.

[eye2eye5]

It's not actually open yet, but the "blurb" refers to it having it's own parking facility.

Thanks Scottie Dog. Does that not encroach on the AVP? As it's a dedicated facility, I can't see it having shared parking with the AVP.

[All names taken]

Why cant MAG have similar facilities at Stansted - it is a nightmare there trying to see stuff*

I think it's mainly to do with Stansted's special status being designated as the airport where all hijack and terrorist incident flights get escorted to by the fighter jets. I think it has the highest security clearance of any UK civilian airfield. Wasn't that where Trumpforce One landed last week? Not really conducive activities with a family day out

[Musket90]

I think Stansted's layout doesn't make it very easy to provide an AVP. Regarding the Trump visit and Obama before him, Stansted was seen as the best London airport alternative to Heathrow where the disruption caused by previous US presidential visits was significant and not acceptable. Also Mildenhall and Lakenheath military bases being nearby to Stansted provide convenient facilities for supporting US presidential aircraft. For info Manchester, as well as a few other UK airports, is also a "nominated" diversion airport in the event of an aircraft experiencing a security issue.

[1mach]

A couple of years ago I went from the bus station to the AVP and got the bus back. Is this service still available?

[BHX5DME]

2,635,878 up 5.78%

12m rolling 28,905,567

[eggc]

30m not far away...nearly 6% is impressive.

[BHX5DME]

I have gained 22k somewhere (monthly CAA stats)

[TURIN]

A couple of years ago I went from the bus station to the AVP and got the bus back. Is this service still available?

There is a staff bus that goes from the railway station to the new Staff South car park. Then its just a short walk to the AVP. If you can blag your way on to the bus that is! Good luck.

[116d]

A couple of years ago I went from the bus station to the AVP and got the bus back. Is this service still available?

There is, though it's now the 288 or 737 routes and isn't as frequent as it was years ago when it was the 200 operated by Swans. Here's the current timetable: https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/7saO6itZvm39HumQB88RFV/b4d5f10116f02a45f481a5358a8636cb/19-0578_Bus_Times_288.pdf

[Ex Cargo Clown]

There is a staff bus that goes from the railway station to the new Staff South car park. Then its just a short walk to the AVP. If you can blag your way on to the bus that is! Good luck.

Best off getting one of the gazillion buses to the cargo centre. Walk up the steps, down the path toward The Romper and walk down the lane at the back of Engineering. 10-15 minute walk maybe.

[Scottie Dog]

Update #94 courtesy of the MANTP team

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[Scottie Dog]

May passenger statistics:

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[TSR2]

Thanks for the statistics Scottie Dog.

Interestingly, 20 years or so ago, charter accounted for more than 60% of annual passengers. That figure has declined to 8.5%.

[PDXCWL45]

Interesting tweet!
​https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1141371821738090497?s=19​​​​​​

[globetrotter79]

Which flag carriers have MAN had and lost over the years...which could be returning?

LOT, Tarom , Alitalia, South African, Qantas come to mind. Would have to guess LOT are the most likely candidate out of that bunch...but perhaps there are others?

[Scottie Dog]

Which flag carriers have MAN had and lost over the years...which could be returning?

LOT, Tarom , Alitalia, South African, Qantas come to mind. Would have to guess LOT are the most likely candidate out of that bunch...but perhaps there are others?

Alitalia have apparently applied for slots to Milan Linate on a daily basis for the winter.

[sinbad73]

Which flag carriers have MAN had and lost over the years...which could be returning?

LOT, Tarom , Alitalia, South African, Qantas come to mind. Would have to guess LOT are the most likely candidate out of that bunch...but perhaps there are others?

Air India in lieu of Jet's collapse?

[VickersVicount]

Can't see South African or Qantas...

[Flightrider]

Correct about Alitalia.

Level on MAN-SZG and Spicejet on MAN-BOM were the only other things of note (and two new easyJet routes, both twice weekly).

[RB Thruster]

I’ve just noticed Frankfurt to Manchester route is ceasing! Every flight I’ve taken from Frankfurt has been full. Marvellous.

[Scottie Dog]

I’ve just noticed Frankfurt to Manchester route is ceasing! I use this route 4-5 times a year as I work in Thuringia. Looks like it’s Berlin only, or Eurostar for me now then. Every flight I’ve taken from Frankfurt has been full. Marvellous.

I presume you are referring to Ryanair then I agree with your comment. You must also remember that the route is well served by Lufthansa and there is no way that I can see them closing the route.

[TURIN]

Correct about Alitalia.

Level on MAN-SZG and Spicejet on MAN-BOM were the only other things of note (and two new easyJet routes, both twice weekly).

Do you have any more info at that Level route? Aircraft type (I assume A320/321) timings etc.

[Plane mad 134]

Sorry about this but where can you find whos applied for slots?

[CabinCrewe]

Sorry about this but where can you find whos applied for slots?
You need entitled or paid for access

[Plane mad 134]

You need entitled or paid for access

Ok thanks and what website is this, as I plan to check it out😃

[Seljuk22]

I presume you are referring to Ryanair then I agree with your comment. You must also remember that the route is well served by Lufthansa and there is no way that I can see them closing the route.
LH will increase MUC-MAN to 4 daily this winter, FRA-MAN remain the same.
In general, beside London area, Germany-England is not very well covered by LCC. Berlin might be the best option to go to and onwards with train southwards.

[Scottie Dog]

Ok thanks and what website is this, as I plan to check it out😃

https://www.acl-uk.org/

I think you might find that any subscription is rather expensive - ACL reports are aimed at the aviation industry.

[Plane mad 134]

https://www.acl-uk.org/

I think you might find that any subscription is rather expensive - ACL reports are aimed at the aviation industry.

Thank you, for your help, I will have a look and see if its worth it👍

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I’ve just noticed Frankfurt to Manchester route is ceasing! I use this route 4-5 times a year as I work in Thuringia. Looks like it’s Berlin only, or Eurostar for me now then. Every flight I’ve taken from Frankfurt has been full. Marvellous.

No, Frankfurt is still being served from Manchester, no need to mess about going via Berlin or taking the Eurostar.

[simufly]

I have used T2 three times in the last month. Roads coned off for no apparant reason, the drop of area on theground floor with many check in desks on the first floor. The up escalator, was out of service AGAIN (has it ever worked recently). Several travelators were out of service to the gates down by the dustbins
Walking between T2 and T1 4t of travelators weare also U/S.
What a complete V expensive shambles MAG has produced.

[HKGBOY]

I have used T2 three times in the last month. Roads coned off for no apparant reason, the drop of area on theground floor with many check in desks on the first floor. The up escalator, was out of service AGAIN (has it ever worked recently). Several travelators were out of service to the area down by the dustbins
Walking between T2 and T1 4 of travelors weare also U/S.
What a complete V expensive shambles MAG has produced.
T1-T2 4 travelators is a good day.

Meanwhile today :-

Manchester Airport delays – Sam Allardyce among hundreds of passengers stuck after being unable to check-in due to IT failure. Delays running into hours.

[RHINO]

With the fiasco today (again) is it not time that the airport was privatised?

[CabinCrewe]

With the fiasco today (again) is it not time that the airport was privatised?
Why, do these events not happen at 'privatised' airports? Most have at LHR at some time or another...

[FFHKG]

The difference with Manchester is that these things occur far more frequently than at other airports. Every time I have passed through in recent years at least one or two travelators and a similar number of escalators have been out of action. There has been regular discussion about this on the Manchester thread since I joined PPRUNE in 2005...... nothing seems to have changed and no effort seems to have been made to improve this situation.

[simufly]

Why, do these events not happen at 'privatised' airports? Most have at LHR at some time or another...
Possibly, but the up escalator @T2 has been U/S for a four weeks. Incompetence personified.

[Rutan16]

Do work for or are a contractor for OTIS, TYSSEN or KONE, Do you know how difficult it is to THEM to site survey, quote and deliver spares for custom machines ?

I’ll let you in to a little secret- I do ! ;Its up to 12 weeks from order and finalised manufacturing details - Yeap instant service and its all down to Chinese demand and parts supply !

Want to use someone else they will still have get the same parts sourced and approved risk assessed and LOLOR tested etc.....

Plus these

BS EN 13015:2001+A1:2008 - This European standard covers maintenance for lifts and escalators and incorporates amendment 1 2008, Rules for maintenance instructions (https://www.stannahlifts.co.uk/services/servicing-maintenance-repair/lift-escalator-moving-walkway-servicing). This standard specifies the elements necessary for instructions and maintenance for new installed passenger lifts, goods passenger lifts, accessible goods only lifts, service lifts, escalators and passenger conveyors.
ISO/DIS 25745-1 - This international standard is in response to the rapid increase in the consumption of energy on a worldwide basis. The standard provides a uniform method of measuring energy consumption of all lift products. = THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE PARTICULARLY AT MAG THOSE OLDER MACHINES FAIL ON SO MAG SWITCH THEM OFF !

[simufly]

Do work for or are a contractor for OTIS, TYSSEN or KONE, Do you know how difficult it is to THEM to site survey, quote and deliver spares for custom machines ?

I’ll let you in to a little secret- I do ! ;Its up to 12 weeks from order and finalised manufacturing details - Yeap instant service and its all down to Chinese demand and parts supply !

Want to use someone else they will still have get the same parts sourced and approved risk assessed and LOLOR tested etc.....

Plus these

BS EN 13015:2001+A1:2008 - This European standard covers maintenance for lifts and escalators and incorporates amendment 1 2008, Rules for maintenance instructions (https://www.stannahlifts.co.uk/services/servicing-maintenance-repair/lift-escalator-moving-walkway-servicing). This standard specifies the elements necessary for instructions and maintenance for new installed passenger lifts, goods passenger lifts, accessible goods only lifts, service lifts, escalators and passenger conveyors.
ISO/DIS 25745-1 - This international standard is in response to the rapid increase in the consumption of energy on a worldwide basis. The standard provides a uniform method of measuring energy consumption of all lift products. = THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE PARTICULARLY AT MAG THOSE OLDER MACHINES FAIL ON SO MAG SWITCH THEM OFF !





The travelators in T2 are brand new!

[Rutan16]

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !

[Rutan16]

Oh and new doesn’t preclude issues.

Indeed KONE in particular has a number of software issues with controls known in the industry.

Your experience at MAG may be biased knowingly or otherwise.

[Rutan16]

With the fiasco today (again) is it not time that the airport was privatised?

MAG Group is a FOR PROFIT commercial business and the councils are simply shareholders along with a number of private investment and pension funds.

Its already subjected to FULL commercial disclosure and effectively a private business .

[Scottie Dog]

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !
Thank you for such a full explanation in your earlier post. This does confirm an answer given by Tricia Williams (former airport COO) when I had a meeting with her at the end of last year and raised this specific question.

As the years go by we appear to rely more and more on machinery that is designed to make life easier for us but which, unfortunately, has a short life span. I do understand that, for the elderly and infirm, it is important to get assistance when for example moving between T1 and The Station - having seen a gentleman struggling with his suitcase whilst also relying on a walking stick - and the days of old where a porter would assist are long gone, and this is where it's items such as travellators that are of help.

On that note I'll just say how grateful I am for my reasonable state of health and fitness.

[RHINO]

MAG Group is a FOR PROFIT commercial business and the councils are simply shareholders along with a number of private investment and pension funds.

Its already subjected to FULL commercial disclosure and effectively a private business .


Really, you could of fooled me. I would prefer the people who own Gatwick to be owning and running MAN. The whole customer experience is so much better. Whether it be security, boarding, disembarking, parking, you name it they do it better. Why can't we have 'better'? T1 is third world, I see know signs of it being improved.

[Curious Pax]

Really, you could of fooled me. I would prefer the people who own Gatwick to be owning and running MAN.

That’s an entirely different question then. After nearly 40 years of privatisation I would have thought it obvious that it isn’t some sort of magic wand. Like most things, private companies span the full range from breathtakingly incompetent to efficient customer focused organisations. The larger the company the more likely it is to have middle management who are more focused on their silo, and how to make it deliver the right numbers to get an annual bonus. Too often there is a disconnect between that and what the customer experiences. Shareholder value, which they are ultimately striving for, is often at 180 degrees to what the customer wants. With a monopoly business - which an airport is in reality, despite the protestations about competing with Dublin, Liverpool etc in this case - a company is better able to keep their profits and growth improving without having to spend as much as would otherwise be the case.

Ignoring the 1001 realities that put it into fantasy land, it’s not hard to imagine MAN (and most other airports in their position to be fair) running a completely different strategy if there was a rival airport 3 miles away that had similar accessibility to passengers, and a similar range of destinations. That would be competition! Heathrow and Gatwick aren’t competitors to that degree, but they are a lot closer to it than anything MAN experiences, which perhaps goes some way to explain the differing strategies they take.

[Dairyground]

Originally posted by Curious Pax
Ignoring the 1001 realities that put it into fantasy land, it’s not hard to imagine MAN (and most other airports in their position to be fair) running a completely different strategy if there was a rival airport 3 miles away that had similar accessibility to passengers, and a similar range of destinations. That would be competition! Heathrow and Gatwick aren’t competitors to that degree, but they are a lot closer to it than anything MAN experiences, which perhaps goes some way to explain the differing strategies they take.

If only Ryanair had bought Woodford when BAE moved out ...

[simufly]

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !
sadly they do not.
I have no other agenda other than a cheesed off pax, desiring a service for the money I have paid.

[pwalhx]

sadly they do not.
I have no other agenda other than a cheesed off pax, desiring a service for the money I have paid.

And to be honest that is what you get, people want cheap fares so consequently there is less to spend on the the infrastructure.

Having said that the airport is spending £1 billion on infrastructure and people are still unhappy.

[Matty Rich 83]

RHINO Considering T1 is being demolished after the completion of the TP (2024) there’s little point in spending a fortune on fixing it, it’s a case of put up and shut up until then. We can only hope (and I am confident it will happen) that the new T2 experience will be better than the current T1 & T2 infrastructure.
As for T3...don’t get me started...!!

[HKGBOY]

No definite commitment to demolish T1- it's still a wish list item. Certainly won't be 2024. Blue Skylink buckets will be needed for many more years yet.

Aside from Government Airport Taxes- each MAN passenger pays £12.12 each as a Passenger Facility charge in addition to £6.25 per person for security screening. This applies whether you use a loco or a full fare outfit. Some airlines possibly have deals where this is not passed onto MAG in full. However, non the less in 2018 MAG made record profits and paid out record dividends to shareholders.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

RHINO Considering T1 is being demolished after the completion of the TP (2024) there’s little point in spending a fortune on fixing it, it’s a case of put up and shut up until then. We can only hope (and I am confident it will happen) that the new T2 experience will be better than the current T1 & T2 infrastructure.
As for T3...don’t get me started...!!
T3 was never designed for what it's now being used for.

[RHINO]

I often wonder if the second runway was a vanity project and the money would have been better spent on the terminals/surrounding infrastructure

[TURIN]

Possibly, but the up escalator @T2 has been U/S for a four weeks. Incompetence personified.

How do you know its incompetence?

Maybe the parts they require need to be shipped from half way around the world, or even made to order. Perhaps the maintenance team has been directed to more urgent work.
You pay peanuts for air travel but expect the infrastructure to be operating like a private yacht with unlimited funds!

Get real!

[AndrewH52]

How do you know its incompetence?

Maybe the parts they require need to be shipped from half way around the world, or even made to order. Perhaps the maintenance team has been directed to more urgent work.
You pay peanuts for air travel but expect the infrastructure to be operating like a private yacht with unlimited funds!

Get real!

A significant proportion of MAN’s pax still pay considerably more than peanuts for the ‘pleasure’ of travelling through a facility that bills itself as the north’s gateway to the world. The current investment in T2 is welcome but a drop in the ocean of what the wider airport estate needs.

[Jetaway]

A significant proportion of MAN’s pax still pay considerably more than peanuts for the ‘pleasure’ of travelling through a facility that bills itself as the north’s gateway to the world. The current investment in T2 is welcome but a drop in the ocean of what the wider airport estate needs.

Should the airport look to build a T4 due to the capacity restraints building on the existing footprint? Although where the new footprint would be is up for a debate. (I think the western maintenence area even though I know it would be costly moving the fuel farm.)

[MAN777]

I dont think its a lot to expect having escalators and travelators actually working.

If the components are hard to come by at short notice why not have spares in stock.?

Over the last few years I have travelled through dozens of airports all over the world and dont ever recall seeing any such installations closed.

[Scottie Dog]

I'll be interested to see what response, apart from a brush off, I get from the airport's Customer Services director to my complaint about the escalators, lifts and travellators not working.

I'll let you know what excuses are given, but I agree 100pc with MAN777's comment about the need to hold spares if they keep breaking.

[chaps1954]

Rhino no way Manchester could work on single runway , if you look at the cost it was very very cheap and what else do you suggest, during summer there are constant times
where movements are one after another for very long periods from 06..00 through to late evening and even as I type this there have been 5 consecutive movements.

[Plane.Silly]

Should the airport look to build a T4 due to the capacity restraints building on the existing footprint? Although where the new footprint would be is up for a debate. (I think the western maintenence area even though I know it would be costly moving the fuel farm.)

this would be VERY long term. It's taken them long enough to get the development on T2 going. Also with T1 scheduled for demolition, there's a large development they could put in its place.
Once both of these are done, It's either T3 expansion, or a new T4. As you've pointed out, the location would be up for discussion.
There's some argument for moving the fuel farm/ hangar areas in favour of a new terminal, but as to where these could move to remains to be seen.
An alternative would be to completely remove the Runway Visitor park and put the new terminal there, then move the Runway park to the other side of the airfield (around the Airport inn and South side viewing area

despite this, this would be 2050'esque' levels of 'long term'. and will not happen anytime soon

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

you pay peanuts for air travel but expect the infrastructure to be operating like a private yacht with unlimited funds!
Remember all that about showcasing MAN as a key part of UK PLC? All those (genuine) complaints about why don’t BA serve long haul from MAN? Because MAN is touted as gateway to the North as well as Scotland, so if that’s true, then the *basics* need to be there and they are not.
Penny pinching on the little things kills the customer experience and in a competitive market that’s important. T3 is still a write off, a Hell to be endured, and while I get huge progress is underway, someone keeps dropping balls on the day-to-day.

BTW if LGW with a similar volume of night stoppers and traffic profile can get by on one runway, so could MAN, with a will. R2 was an remains such a sub-optimal layout depending on wind direction and SID.

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - April 2019

Introduction

Back in September 2015 I decided that I should start to correlate statistics for Manchester and use 2005 as a reference point for historical data. My file now consists of 14 years of monthly figures and 486 destinations that have been served from Manchester over that period.

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.
No new destinations were served in April 2019.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,045,211 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for April.
All airports have report for this month

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 2,390,976 +8.18%
Annual Total - 8,050,122
Moving Annual Total - 28,838,398 +3.22%
Monthly Movements - 16,577 +2.78%
Annual Movements - 58,579
Moving Annual Movements - 202,109 +0.21%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
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Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.
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Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
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Comparison of top 25 destinations - April 2009 versus April 2019
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Major changes to domestic traffic
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Based on a combination of CAA data, aircraft configurations supplied by Planespotters.net and movements from FR24 I have complied the followed suggested load factors for long-haul scheduled services.
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It must be remembered that the MAN-ADD/MAN-IAH and MAN-SIN services are shared with intermediate points and therefore reflect a lower than load-factor that true.
MAN-JFK shows an odd figures but I have been unable to ascertain why this is - I know that a couple of the Virgin flights were operated using A330 & A340 equipment but this has been taken into account.

CAA statistics for April are final.

[Nostoodian]

Worryingly low load factors month after month for Hainan's 4 x weekly service to Beijing. 67% in April is very low. I wonder what the yield is? Is this route sustainable in the long run? I think the inconvenient flight times are hurting growth on this route. The fight departs Man at 12.15pm - arriving Pek 5.45am. On the return leg, the flight departs at 1.45am, arriving at Man at 5.40am. For business travelers and tourists, you can't usually check-in to hotels till around 12 noon leaving the weary passenger with some time to burn. Also, who wants to fly at 1.45am in the morning? Maybe after Beijing's new airport is open, better slot timings will become free?

My feelings are with better slot timings, this route is very sustainable for 7 x weekly for an all round year service.

[chaps1954]

Skipness 1F
Manchester has a very different profile from Gatwick with many slow Dash 8s, ATR and also the taxiway layout is very different as Gatwick has more high speed exits from memory plus the famous Mobberley bend which can slow departures and arrivals down considerably.

[Suzeman]

BTW if LGW with a similar volume of night stoppers and traffic profile can get by on one runway, so could MAN, with a will. R2 was an remains such a sub-optimal layout depending on wind direction and SID.

So are you suggesting MAN mothball R2?

Remember that when R2 was being planned the traffic profile was very different - many movements by small jets such as the CRJ and E145. Plus the fact that the airlines weren't prepared to accept delays of the same order as at LHR and a lesser extent LGW. In addition, the MAN R1 runway layout (RETs, holding bays etc) was far inferior to that of LGW even after the addition of a RET and the 24 holding bay - really just a passing point - and capacity was becoming severely limited in the peaks.

Not much more could be done to increase it. Airlines were getting hacked off at not being able to get any decent peak runway slots at commercially sensible times and several potential services didn't start as a result, so the Airport started looking at a new runway.

The R2 layout was always sub-optimal, the optimal location to the NW to allow fully independent ops with the terminals in the middle was not sustainable - think public safety zone requiring T2 to be demolished, the proximity of the M56 and not to mention Ashley Girl Guide camp....A fully spaced parallel to the south would have resulted in the destruction of the Bollin Valley as well as having runway crossings, so already sub-optimal. Neither of these options would have been likely to get through the planning process and were hugely expensive. In the end the current R2 configuration was put forward for the planning and inquiry process as it seemed to be a good compromise between the ideal operationally and the environmental factors. It was approved. :)

The SIDS at MAN are not optimal due to the presence of some very vocal opposition to changes to make things better - and that has always been the case. LGW is not constrained as much with SIDs splitting quickly beyond the runway end.

Anyway MAN already has that extra capacity in the bag for the future. How long until LHR or LGW get an extra runway, especially with the heightened environmental concerns these days?

T3 was originally built as a joint venture between the Airport and BA for a mix of BA domestic, European and long haul flights. In the end BA changed their strategy and walked away. This demonstrates the issue that airports have - airlines can move their aircraft around and change their focus in a short period - airports commit to bricks and mortar which is a long term project.

Penny pinching on the little things kills the customer experience and in a competitive market that’s important. T3 is still a write off, a Hell to be endured, and while I get huge progress is underway, someone keeps dropping balls on the day-to-day.

I do agree that not getting the little things right is important. I'm not defending what I read about in terms of poor customer service; however I wonder how many of MAN's passengers have the luxury of being able to go somewhere else instead bearing in mind all the other things that they take into account when planning a trip? And will they run into similar issues elsewhere now that our lives everywhere are dominated by blinkered bean-counters poring over financial spreadsheets rather than looking at the bigger picture?

I also believe that many modern-day travellers accept lower standards than previous generations; they don't know or expect any better.

It's enough to make you cry sometimes.:{

[Scottie Dog]

An excellent summary by Suzeman who, whilst now getting, like myself, to be a "little long in the tooth", knows what he is talking about when it comes to R2 and T3.

[Navpi]

Nailed it Suzeman!

[Asturias56]

Scotties summary is interesting - looks like a major diversion of connecting traffic from LHR to AMS and CDG over the ten year period - and who would blame them?

[Plane mad 134]

New Tui route to Marsa Alam Eff 06NOV19 1x weekly B737 Max8

[chaps1954]

Very much doubt AMS as they are full

[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #95 courtesy of the MANTP Team

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[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #95 courtesy of the MANTP Team

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[FFMAN]

Worryingly low load factors month after month for Hainan's 4 x weekly service to Beijing. 67% in April is very low. I wonder what the yield is? Is this route sustainable in the long run? I think the inconvenient flight times are hurting growth on this route. The fight departs Man at 12.15pm - arriving Pek 5.45am. On the return leg, the flight departs at 1.45am, arriving at Man at 5.40am. For business travelers and tourists, you can't usually check-in to hotels till around 12 noon leaving the weary passenger with some time to burn. Also, who wants to fly at 1.45am in the morning? Maybe after Beijing's new airport is open, better slot timings will become free?

My feelings are with better slot timings, this route is very sustainable for 7 x weekly for an all round year service.

I've used this service extensively since it was launched over 3 years ago.
*Anecdotal evidence alert*
From my experience the load factors appear to be about right....which leaves me puzzled...why the big A333 bird when they have much more appropriately sized B787s, which they used to fly and I've also been on? (and from a pax perspective are far superior).

Most recent flight had around 14 in Business and was around 2/3 full down the back.
One thing that has really been noticeable between 3 years ago and now is that recently I have been almost certainly the only non-Chinese (origin?) person on the entire plane whereas at the beginning it was much more mixed. I take from that that the service just ain't cutting it with the locals here. I used to hear a lot of complaints about this and that back then but nothing cohesive enough to point to anything totally wrong.

The MAN experience from T2 is not too bad - apart from that wretched Escape lounge which is not really a C Class lounge just one of those pay on entry fakes.
Using the new A pier is pretty good (despite what people on pprune have said, it's actually turned out alright).
On flight times: outbound from MAN frankly it's spot on but arrival time in to PEK is very (too)early.
The return at 01.45 is totally awful and the T2 experience at PEK is a bit grim and dingy but HNA do have a very nice lounge there. PEK is a busy airport at that time of the night with flights going to many European destinations. In fairness HNA's Brussels flight which appears to be one of their European flagship routes also goes at that time and I've used it on days when the MAN service is non-op. From my personal perspective I like getting home very early in the morning - the airport is dead and therefore a breeze and you can be off the plane and in a taxi in 20 mins if all goes well.

One other thing I have noticed between then and now is the decline in the quality of the on-board product. It used to be pretty good but now is no better than an average (say) Air China type product. The quality of training appears to have taken a dive. The crew often seem very young indeed and very inexperienced to be serving a C-Class product and their English is sometime nothing more than absolute basic.

[Scottie Dog]

Could freight be a good reason for the A330? I believe can take more belly cargo than the B787 and a good freight load can make a service profitable.

[Scottie Dog]

Update #96 courtesy of the MANTP Team

A number of the updates were already covered in Issue #95 but are included for continuity from the original document.

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[Scottie Dog]

Update #96 courtesy of the MANTP Team

A number of the updates were already covered in Issue #95 but are included for continuity from the original document.

Part 2 of 2

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[Trav a la]

nothing seems to have changed and no effort seems to have been made to improve this situation.

The 2 long travelators in the sky link, between T1 and the train station, are in the process of being boarded and sealed up, floor to ceiling. It looks like they are planning some long term work and I suspect they are being completely replaced as there appeared to be some deep excavation work taking place.

[Scottie Dog]

Hopefully they might be back in use in a couple of months.

[Logohu]

One thing that has really been noticeable between 3 years ago and now is that recently I have been almost certainly the only non-Chinese (origin?) person on the entire plane whereas at the beginning it was much more mixed. I take from that that the service just ain't cutting it with the locals here.


I expect the growth of CX from 4 weekly to daily, and now on their latest kit the A350-1000, will have lured away some of the locals and business passengers who previously tried Hainan to mainland China. The UK originating demand for China is only a fraction the size of the China originating traffic. Finnair also appear to be doing very well with many flights now on A320/A321 rather than E195s, and much of their traffic connects beyond Helsinki to China and the Far East. The pot is only so large I suppose

[FFMAN]

Could be an element of truth in that but I don't think they're the only or even the main factors.
For a start HK is a long long way beyond Beijing and you have already overflown almost all of China on the way there, so almost everything China from HK is doubling back on yourself. CX are also significantly more expensive than HU (with good reason).

I do think HU suffers some structural disadvantages in the MAN (or UK in general) to China market.
1) Brits love their frequent flyer programs and particularly the main three global ones so if you're flying to PEK from MAN you can fly through AMS, FRA or HEL and get a stack of points for your trouble - or with HU where you don't.
2) There is a brand awareness issue - even after 3 years - before the last trip someone asked me who I was flying with followed by the almost inevitable 'never heard of them' response. Another popular retort is 'sounds a bit dodgy to me'. Brand awareness is not an issue on the Chinese side though.
3) Decent connections at the PEK end are limited and naturally limited at the MAN end despite a few UK and Ireland ones from other airlines that tend to get called out for a passport swipe prior to boarding. There is also the possibility of having to switch terminals to make a connection as well which in both airports is a nightmare. This might imply an over-reliance on point to point MAN-PEK.

There's no doubt either that at 4pw it is not ideal from a business perspective (it always works out that either the inbound or outbound leg of any trip won't work). I've had agents who when confronted with one leg being non-op revert naturally to the 'safe' options through a hub. It is only because of my strong knowledge of who flies where and when that I can correct them.
Given all the above disadvantages it is perhaps a testament to the strength of MAN and the route itself that it's just completed three years of ops.

[HKGBOY]

If MAN were to ever get a PVG link then it'd probably kill off the HU PEK service, but would probably be more successful.

The CX always appears to be full up front when I travel- despite it being expensive ( & always pricier than LHR or LGW), but I've never noticed many connecting to China on it.

For me, CX price & flight timings make the Finnair option much more user friendly. Evening departure much better, although the lousy E190s of AY are not a good connection, cramped and full. Don't know why they don't use A321/A321 on all MAN-HEL flights. If CX were to introduce an evening departure then I'd be more inclined to use it more.

With CX buying Hong Kong Express I suppose there are options to increase China connections. HK Express was part of the Hainan Group- so you do wonder what the future holds for that group?

[Nostoodian]

Seems like it's not just Hainan's Manchester service that's under performing. Their Edinburgh service is on the rocks too. Lets hope that the cargo in the belly is keeping the MAN route profitable. Hainan Airlines’ Edinburgh flights ‘under negotiation’June 26th 2019
​​​
Edinburgh’s direct flights with Beijing are “under negotiation” as China’s Hainan Airlines considers whether to continue with the service beyond October.

A source from the airline, speaking to Daily Business, confirmed recent speculation that it is reviewing the four times a week service, which includes two via Dublin.

‘It is under negotiation. We are looking at whether to fly during the winter or whether to bring in a partner,” he said, “Winter is challenging and [passenger numbers] will go down.”

He said bookings were being taken until October and the intention would be to resume next summer. Planes would be 80% full during July and August, but numbers are expected to decline sharply in the winter. It is thought the airline expects visitors from China to tail off significantly at the end of the Festival.

In June last year, Edinburgh Airport chief executive Gordon Dewar described the arrival of Hainan Airlines as a “momentous day.”

[easyflyer83]

If MAN were to ever get a PVG link then it'd probably kill off the HU PEK service, but would probably be more successful.

The CX always appears to be full up front when I travel- despite it being expensive ( & always pricier than LHR or LGW), but I've never noticed many connecting to China on it.

For me, CX price & flight timings make the Finnair option much more user friendly. Evening departure much better, although the lousy E190s of AY are not a good connection, cramped and full. Don't know why they don't use A321/A321 on all MAN-HEL flights. If CX were to introduce an evening departure then I'd be more inclined to use it more.

With CX buying Hong Kong Express I suppose there are options to increase China connections. HK Express was part of the Hainan Group- so you do wonder what the future holds for that group?

The ERJ190 (and the ERJ’s in general) tend to be very popular among passengers. Many carriers keep the config to 100 or less meaning the seat pitch is favourable and the 2+2 seating is popular.

[chaps1954]

Don`t see many Embraers on Finnair now mainly Airbuses infact I can only see 5 all month so far and all on evening flight

Ian

[HKGBOY]

The ERJ190 (and the ERJ’s in general) tend to be very popular among passengers. Many carriers keep the config to 100 or less meaning the seat pitch is favourable and the 2+2 seating is popular.

Not in Business class - they are not popular.

[FFMAN]

Seems like it's not just Hainan's Manchester service that's under performing. Their Edinburgh service is on the rocks too. Lets hope that the cargo in the belly is keeping the MAN route profitable.

Sorry - can't let you get away with that bit of opinion dressed as fact. Who has said the MAN service is 'on the rocks'? How do you know it is under-performing unless you work for the airline's finance department?...which you almost certainly do not. You have no idea whatsoever of the route's performance so don't pretend that you do.
On the other hand - it has been well reported that the Edinburgh service is 'under negotiation'.

[Rutan16]

We know the Hainan flights are averaging around the 70% loads for SLF and much of that take up by CAISSA and party approved Tourists and Chinese students whilst maintaining healthy cargo loads.

We also know Hainan continues to route sizeable SLF loads on non op days through Brussels.

We also know Chinese airlines profitability targets are much lower that comparable western carriers due to the political imperatives placed on them from above indeed from the VERY TOP LEADERSHIP of the PRC -through The Belt and Road Initiative, and the Grand Design strategies and similar regional government imperatives set for the medium term economic growth target.

All of those have aviation as their primary driver right now and not a little amount of Keynesian economics attached me thinks.

It is however noticeable that daily operations haven’t returned after summer season one, however loads have been consistently about 70% or so.

Someone mentioned low take up by UK departing traffic and that many continue to prefer one stop routes via the usual hubs with J traffic particularly taking the time hit to “BENEFIT” from awards or better said advance paid for bribes offered for the higher fares AND inconvenience.

The Chinese aren’t quite a swayed by a a promise of few free miles with strings attached , sandwich and glass of something cold at x2 x5 or even x10 base fares in large numbers yet , unless of course the party is paying the tab one way or another and ALL those will be boarding the traditional communist liveried planes that’s how it works.

In the same breath that person also complains that the lunch time UK departure is in its self somehow more inconvenient !
As for those mid night Beijing departures a very sizable slice of the EU bound flights depart at this time, and allow for a host of inbound Chinese cities to funnel in both SLF and boxes to be loaded west.

The long hold on Shanghai looks to be easing from my sources as the Air China and China Eastern war is side stepped in a very Chinese way.
The new entrant approach - let’s pretend Juneyeo is just such a new entrant for a minute............
Oh news flash its really just another Air China shell - As usual the CAAC will ignore that technicality I am sure.

And who has the current Shanghai - Manchester traffic rights ! Problem solved me thinks .
See you in the spring of 2020 !

MANTRA Chinese aviation ain’t all it appears in its multi coloured differing named carriers and certainly isn’t a western profit driven business model.

[Nostoodian]

Sorry - can't let you get away with that bit of opinion dressed as fact. Who has said the MAN service is 'on the rocks'? How do you know it is under-performing unless you work for the airline's finance department?...which you almost certainly do not. You have no idea whatsoever of the route's performance so don't pretend that you do.
On the other hand - it has been well reported that the Edinburgh service is 'under negotiation'.

Actually I don't know and was just surmising and maybe that wasn't wise. I'm not an aviation route expert in anyway or form, in fact far from it. Apologies for making assumptions.

The Hainan PEK route may have some similarities to the MAN Saudi route before when Saudi were using 777 aircraft with low load factors but with a very healthy belly of cargo. I may also be wrong. I can imagine MAN - PEK being a healthy cargo route though for Hainan.

Let's also not forget that Hainan started off 4 weekly all year round, went up to 7 weekly, dropped down to 3 weekly in the winter and then dropped down to 4 weekly in the summer. I'm not sure of the winter schedule now. Is it still 3 weekly? From reading Scottie Dog's analysis reports the load factors don't appear to be very good compared year on year, that doesn't mean as you say that the route is underperforming in the eyes of Hainan.

Scottie Dog would you be able to work out an average load factor for the last two years of operations? This would be interesting to see.

[FFMAN]

Interesting insights Rutan. Not sure who was saying that a lunchtime departure is hurting loads but it wasn't me. As an actual passenger I said in an earlier post On flight times: outbound from MAN frankly it's spot on No early alarm, breakfast at home, miss the rush hour in the taxi and in the terminal, nice lunch on board - it's perfect. Also the CX flight to HKG goes roughly the same time and that doesn't hurt loads.

One thing that does occur to me after reading some of the responses is that a 70% LF on an A333 would be more like a 100% LF on a 787 and people would be trumpeting it's success. Given that the A333 is the largest plane in Hainan's fleet there has to be another reason and that surely must be, as others have pointed to already, cargo. As a pax I never notice how much cargo is loaded any more than I notice how many bags go on. Maybe I'll have a peek next time I'm on it.

From what you're saying Rutan, looks like Shanghai is now imminent

[Scottie Dog]

Scottie Dog would you be able to work out an average load factor for the last two years of operations? This would be interesting to see.

I think my wife might complain if I spend to much more time doing stats, but I'll see what I can do!! The problem might be ascertaining the available seats for the "2017/2018" months. 🙄🙄

[OltonPete]

Actually I don't know and was just surmising and maybe that wasn't wise. I'm not an aviation route expert in anyway or form, in fact far from it. Apologies for making assumptions.

The Hainan PEK route may have some similarities to the MAN Saudi route before when Saudi were using 777 aircraft with low load factors but with a very healthy belly of cargo. I may also be wrong. I can imagine MAN - PEK being a healthy cargo route though for Hainan.

Let's also not forget that Hainan started off 4 weekly all year round, went up to 7 weekly, dropped down to 3 weekly in the winter and then dropped down to 4 weekly in the summer. I'm not sure of the winter schedule now. Is it still 3 weekly? From reading Scottie Dog's analysis reports the load factors don't appear to be very good compared year on year, that doesn't mean as you say that the route is underperforming in the eyes of Hainan.

Scottie Dog would you be able to work out an average load factor for the last two years of operations? This would be interesting to see.

Credit CAA:

2018 passengers 75536 sectors reported 372 average per flight 203 (CAA Punctuality stats for the sectors)

2017 passengers 90161 sectors reported 484 average per flight 186

To get the load factor I believe you would need a log of each aircraft operated as the A332 has two configs (214 or 260), the A333 two configs (292 & 303), the 788 C36/Y177 and the 789 C30/Y262 - Credit: Planespotters.net

I don't have the specific aircraft type operated although it would be available somewhere, perhaps Scottie Dog can get the data.

Pete

[Mr A Tis]

I see the Saturday AC Rouge YYZ service was delayed 12 hours on the ground at MAN, However, the mainline AC DUB-YYZ was also delayed 12 hours.
Was there an issue at Toronto -or just a bad AC day?
The MAN Rouge always seems to have some delay to departure even when it arrives on time, are they still with Swissport?

With the takeover of Air Transat by Air Canada, presumably there will be some consolidation of YYZ/YVR service by this time next year? Maybe a year round service at last.

[VickersVicount]

but which would you prefer TS or ACr ? As I suspect you can't have both, unless they make certain bases one of each.

[chaps1954]

Air Transat personally

[Mr A Tis]

Air Transat personally

Personally I'd hope for AC mainline (they have taken over the Rouge from Dublin)
AC Rouge is pretty ropey product IMHO (not at particularly cheap price). Never flown with Transat though.
In 2015 I got lucky when mainline operated the Rouge service for a few days- getting Business class for the price of Premium Rouge.
Even now you are often offered more favourable fares with AC mainline via DUB or BRU than the Rouge fares direct.

[chaps1954]

Hadn`t even included them in my predictions but a daily A330 or B789 would be nice but a B788 is too small except in winter.
I can see the Canada Rouge product being dropped from Manchester and a small increase in Air Transat flights

[mufc4evr]

Actually I don't know and was just surmising and maybe that wasn't wise. I'm not an aviation route expert in anyway or form, in fact far from it. Apologies for making assumptions.

The Hainan PEK route may have some similarities to the MAN Saudi route before when Saudi were using 777 aircraft with low load factors but with a very healthy belly of cargo. I may also be wrong. I can imagine MAN - PEK being a healthy cargo route though for Hainan.

Let's also not forget that Hainan started off 4 weekly all year round, went up to 7 weekly, dropped down to 3 weekly in the winter and then dropped down to 4 weekly in the summer. I'm not sure of the winter schedule now. Is it still 3 weekly? From reading Scottie Dog's analysis reports the load factors don't appear to be very good compared year on year, that doesn't mean as you say that the route is underperforming in the eyes of Hainan.

Scottie Dog would you be able to work out an average load factor for the last two years of operations? This would be interesting to see.

Hainan are usually pretty full (like Saudia) BUT the rates Hainan charge are ridiculously cheap. Quite a bit cheaper per kilo than the rest

[avicon13]

No definite commitment to demolish T1- it's still a wish list item. Certainly won't be 2024. Blue Skylink buckets will be needed for many more years yet.

Aside from Government Airport Taxes- each MAN passenger pays £12.12 each as a Passenger Facility charge in addition to £6.25 per person for security screening. This applies whether you use a loco or a full fare outfit. Some airlines possibly have deals where this is not passed onto MAG in full. However, non the less in 2018 MAG made record profits and paid out record dividends to shareholders.

My understanding is that in 2024 T2 will include a walking link to the base of Pier C. At that point only the gates and departure lounge in T1 are required so I think after this time the main processor will begin to be demolished. I'll be honest though I don't know what will become of the good ship Skylink at that point. Clearly the rail/tram station - Radisson -T2 section is still needed but perhaps the T1 link section will go?!?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

So are you suggesting MAN mothball R2?


T3 was originally built as a joint venture between the Airport and BA for a mix of BA domestic, European and long haul flights. In the end BA changed their strategy and walked away.
.:{

Spot on I've tried to allude to this before. T3 was not designed for it's current purpose. BA really threw MAN under the proverbial bus. I believe it's very difficult even extending it toward Males/APH because of underground utility issues.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Hainan are usually pretty full (like Saudia) BUT the rates Hainan charge are ridiculously cheap. Quite a bit cheaper per kilo than the rest

China-Man rates are ridiculously low because there is massive over-capacity on the UK flights. You can near enough get a PMC for £300++.

[Nostoodian]

China-Man rates are ridiculously low because there is massive over-capacity on the UK flights. You can near enough get a PMC for £300++.

If this is the case then is the MAN - PEK service even profitable and sustainable using an A330-300? It would seem a 787-900 daily service would be a much better fit as others have said. It seems like a strange decision by Hainan not to change equipment on the route. The route can't be doing that bad as Hainan was thinking of starting a 3 x daily Guangzhou route not long ago. Checking through multiple dates later in the year, economy fares seemed quite cheap so yield could be quite low. Then again there's plenty of competition from other airlines as you can fly to Beijing indirect for £350 return on certain months later in autumn. Maybe Hainan knows something we don't. With the Virgin takeover of Flybe and possible Thomas Cook long haul in the future, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin could take on a Chinese route like Beijing with the opening of Daxing International. They already serve Shanghai from Heathrow. Does Virgin have any codeshares with Chinese Airlines?

[Rutan16]

If this is the case then is the MAN - PEK service even profitable and sustainable using an A330-300? It would seem a 787-900 daily service would be a much better fit as others have said. It seems like a strange decision by Hainan not to change equipment on the route. The route can't be doing that bad as Hainan was thinking of starting a 3 x daily Guangzhou route not long ago. Checking through multiple dates later in the year, economy fares seemed quite cheap so yield could be quite low. Then again there's plenty of competition from other airlines as you can fly to Beijing indirect for £350 return on certain months later in autumn. Maybe Hainan knows something we don't. With the Virgin takeover of Flybe and possible Thomas Cook long haul in the future, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin could take on a Chinese route like Beijing with the opening of Daxing International. They already serve Shanghai from Heathrow. Does Virgin have any codeshares with Chinese Airlines?

What part of the political imperative set from high office don’t you quite understand .
Chinese carriers do NOT need to turn a profit in the same way Western carries do to deliver shareholder value.

European mainstream carriers including the alliance players can’t compete effectively into and out of the Chinese market much beyond Beijing and Shanghai due to the levels of subsidies offered from regional and central government departments under those initiatives and policies set up by the highest leadership of the PRC.

The Virgin Shanghai -Heathrow route carries an Air China code, however that’s not very useful as they aren’t that big regionally beyond Shanghai.

This service is little more than a quasi charter carrying CAISSA and state approved Chinese tourists with remaining seats available to the market oh and also being a freight truck . Today the flight is very near full both ways with SLF and boxes.

Most of those boxes will have come from the South East and central manufacturing districts and not from Beijing its self.

As alluded to by a n other, carrier box rates from China are pretty low, however that actor is just another coin in the Belt and Road initiative to peddle more Chinese goods into Western markets at silly rates . China does this to reduce and mitigate many of the WTO tariffs again a political play.

Usual mantra applies Chinese aviation ain’t all it seems .

[Nostoodian]

What part of the political imperative set from high office don’t you quite understand .
Chinese carriers do NOT need to turn a profit in the same way Western carries do to deliver shareholder value.

European mainstream carriers including the alliance players can’t compete effectively into and out of the Chinese market much beyond Beijing and Shanghai due to the levels of subsidies offered from regional and central government departments under those initiatives and policies set up by the highest leadership of the PRC.

The Virgin Shanghai -Heathrow route carries an Air China code, however that’s not very useful as they aren’t that big regionally beyond Shanghai.

This service is little more than a quasi charter carrying CAISSA and state approved Chinese tourists with remaining seats available to the market oh and also being a freight truck . Today the flight is very near full both ways with SLF and boxes.

Most of those boxes will have come from the South East and central manufacturing districts and not from Beijing its self.

As alluded to by a n other, carrier box rates from China are pretty low, however that actor is just another coin in the Belt and Road initiative to peddle more Chinese goods into Western markets at silly rates . China does this to reduce and mitigate many of the WTO tariffs again a political play.

Usual mantra applies Chinese aviation ain’t all it seems .



No reason to be so condescending. I am happy to learn from others like yourself about how the aviation industry works especially in China. I sometimes I wonder why some folk feel the need to talk down to others so much on this forum? Please correct me where I need to be corrected but please can you try to be less patronising?

As you seem very clued up on Chinese aviation. What do you think Hainan's reason would be for possibly pulling their Edinburgh service in the future?

[bjones4]

The Premiair terminal is now taking reservations, interestingly after all the PR about it being the VIP experience that is available to everyone, it's actually only available to people flying Adria, Ethiopian, Oman, PIA, Qatar, TAP or TCX.

[HKGBOY]

Not only that it appears to be £50 for hand baggage only or £100 if you have checked luggage.
The artist impression of the interior makes it look no different than the escape lounge.

Think I'll pass- underwhelming to say the least.

[Mr Mac]

Well came through T2 this last week, and apart from the new car park I can not say I was impressed. Cafe / food outlets of pretty poor standard and over priced. Also how come so many Brits believe that swilling pints at 6.30 am is a good way to either fly or start a holiday , I have not seen it elsewhere, and I live in Munich much of the time and believe me Bavarian's drink beer a plenty. Outbound on JET 2 we got bussed out to distant stand for 757 Jet 2 to Palma despite air-bridge on stand being unoccupied. Jet 2 do what they do, and flight ok. Return on new 737 8OO Sunday night arrived slightly early having avoided storms over France but then had to wait for air bridge to be connected properly as first attempt failed. Then had long walk down T2 to Immigration. My impression remains that it is a value engineered development and really not worthy of the region it looks to serve. Luckily I get to use T1 most of the time with LH and EK so limited exposure to T2.

Regards
Mr Mac

[Matty Rich 83]

Well came through T2 this last week, and apart from the new car park I can not say I was impressed. Cafe / food outlets of pretty poor standard and over priced. Also how come so many Brits believe that swilling pints at 6.30 am is a good way to either fly or start a holiday , I have not seen it elsewhere, and I live in Munich much of the time and believe me Bavarian's drink beer a plenty. Outbound on JET 2 we got bussed out to distant stand for 757 Jet 2 to Palma despite air-bridge on stand being unoccupied. Jet 2 do what they do, and flight ok. Return on new 737 8OO Sunday night arrived slightly early having avoided storms over France but then had to wait for air bridge to be connected properly as first attempt failed. Then had long walk down T2 to Immigration. My impression remains that it is a value engineered development and really not worthy of the region it looks to serve. Luckily I get to use T1 most of the time with LH and EK so limited exposure to T2.

Regards
Mr Mac

Not sure what you were expecting...you were in the current terminal 2 that is yet to be refurbished from next summer when the new T2 extension opens.
At what time was your outbound flight operating? The stand with the unused airbridge may have been free for a long haul aircraft arriving before your departure, with the airfield capacity issues at the moment there is sometimes no choice but to bus passengers to remote stands.
As for your arrival, maybe the person operating the airbridge was new to the job and being trained and you as for your long walk to immigration, that’s hit and miss depending of course which stand the aircraft parks at...I wouldn’t necessary call that a big problem...unless your a disabled passenger of course.
As for the early morning drink...completely agree, each to their own but no need really.

[Rutan16]

Sorry didn’t mean to be condescending apologies.

HNA GROUP haven’t yet canned Edinburgh- Beijing however they are looking at what they call a partner airline and that could well mean passing the route over to their group quasi charter carrier CAPITAL AIRLINES as they work very closely with CAISSA the Chinese tour agents (also an HNA company)
CAPITAL seem to specialise in the very marginal very low frequency routes for the group.

[FFMAN]

Well came through T2 this last week, and apart from the new car park I can not say I was impressed. Cafe / food outlets of pretty poor standard and over priced. Also how come so many Brits believe that swilling pints at 6.30 am is a good way to either fly or start a holiday , I have not seen it elsewhere, and I live in Munich much of the time and believe me Bavarian's drink beer a plenty. Outbound on JET 2 we got bussed out to distant stand for 757 Jet 2 to Palma despite air-bridge on stand being unoccupied. Jet 2 do what they do, and flight ok. Return on new 737 8OO Sunday night arrived slightly early having avoided storms over France but then had to wait for air bridge to be connected properly as first attempt failed. Then had long walk down T2 to Immigration. My impression remains that it is a value engineered development and really not worthy of the region it looks to serve. Luckily I get to use T1 most of the time with LH and EK so limited exposure to T2.

Regards
Mr Mac

I'm often very critical of the MAN experience myself but I think your comments are a bit unfair. The actual T2 extension is not done yet and is not even visible from the inside, your experience relates to the 27 year old orginal T2. The new construction that is on view and in use is the new Pier A and link corridor which I've used twice now and is, frankly, fine.
On airbridges, I think with the best will in the world, a Jet2 flight from Majorca isn't going to get VIP treatment - Jet2 self handle anyway so if there's a problem it's usually something to take up with them rather than the airport.
On the walk to immigration - luck of the draw - depends where you park, T2 is now a very large expanse and if you're unlucky you could end up with a long walk. It's unrealistic to enjoy all the routes and timing options of a larger airport and get all the convenience of a smaller one.(although I've landed with hand baggage on an overnight long-haul and been in the taxi 20 mins after landing - it can be good)
....and yeah.. the beer thing. Don't get it either but it's not uniquely British. I flew in from Dusseldorf on the first flight from there a few weeks ago and there were Germans a plenty knocking the stuff back at silly o'clock.

[easyflyer83]

Some fair comments on both sides but i must take exception to FFMAN’s comment about an LS flight unlikely to get the VIP treatment.

It’s all a myth about airlines getting preferential treatment based on the type of airline it is. Ultimately it comes down to how big a customer they are for the airport. In Jet 2’s case (and easyJet & Ryanair for that matter) they are bloody big customers of MAG and with that comes leverage.

[FFMAN]

No slight intended on Jet2 - they're great at what they do. It was more of a comment related to 'you get what you pay for' being a loco and pointing out that any handling issues are their own - being self-handlers - rather than something to criticize MAN about

[easyflyer83]

No slight intended on Jet2 - they're great at what they do. It was more of a comment related to 'you get what you pay for' being a loco and pointing out that any handling issues are their own - being self-handlers - rather than something to criticize MAN about

True in that airlines are the master of their own destiny regarding handling but actually I find Jet 2 to have probably the best handling of any airline at MAN, particularly front of house.

[Mr Mac]

Matty Rich
Out bound flight to Palma was 8.30am with return on the 23.15. JET 2 are fine for what they do and indeed appear to it very well judging by the load factors on my two flights. I do not use them apart from this one week each year so can not comment further and it is unfair tom compare with the LH/SQ/EK which form the bulk of my flying these days.

FFMAN
I went for a walk down the new pier a little way as nothing else to do, and would say my comments remain the same, its a bus stop. As for length of walk I do hope they are going to put some form of travelator in, as by the time they have finished you will be walking some distance to immigration. On the plus side I did for the first time notice the PIA and SQ signs for transit passengers which I had not noticed before, despite being a not infrequent passenger with SQ.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[easyflyer83]

There have been a few comments regarding the new T2 pier, particularly regarding the lack of amenities.

To put it into context, none of MAN’s gate piers or gate areas have much in the way of facilities. The use of piers is specifically to board aircraft. You don’t want much in the way of facilities because if you end up on the wrong pier, you will ultimately have further to walk and in any case, gates are only announced/shown close to boarding so what is the point?

You go to Manchester Piccadilly, or most other mainline stations, and you won’t find any facilities on the platforms there for the same reason.

[Asturias56]

A lot of serious airports now have lounges, toilets, food spots, bars, duty free etc in the piers - they help disperse the great unwashed across the airport footprint

They also encourage people to get near their gates before "FINAL CALL FOR MR ASTURIAS" - who is a kilometer away in the central services area

See Schipol....................

PS I went thorough the newly rebuilt Reading Station a month ago and they have a load of facilities on each platform..................

[eye2eye5]

There have been a few comments regarding the new T2 pier, particularly regarding the lack of amenities.

To put it into context, none of MAN’s gate piers or gate areas have much in the way of facilities. The use of piers is specifically to board aircraft. You don’t want much in the way of facilities because if you end up on the wrong pier, you will ultimately have further to walk and in any case, gates are only announced/shown close to boarding so what is the point?

You go to Manchester Piccadilly, or most other mainline stations, and you won’t find any facilities on the platforms there for the same reason.
The last time I went from Piccadilly to Edinburgh by train, there were catering facilities within two minutes of the platform and the train itself.

[easyflyer83]

Platforms 1-11 at Piccadilly have nothing on them.
12/13 have minimal facilities.

The term we all use and widely accept is Departure Lounge. A pier is not a lounge, nor is it part of the departure lounge. Plus Pier B & C in terminal 1 and the gate areas of 2 & 3 have managed with no/few facilities for years and no one has ever kicked up a fuss.

Sure some airports, mainly hubs, might have a few facilities on their piers that cater for long haul flights where the gate number is often known well in advance. MAN itself will also have a pier with airline lounges within it but they are more of a destination for pax within the airport and crucially, those airlines with a longe there will likely be given a gate on that pier.

MAN announces gates close to STD, whether you agree with it or not, and so you don’t keep facilities on the pier. All you need is space, seating and toilets. A newsstand offering magazines and a drinks chiller is a ‘nice to have’ but not essential.

[Asturias56]

That isn't the point - it helps the PAX and spreads the load within the airport

Late gate changes (ie less than 1 hour before departure) are very rare in my experience and normally only occur if a plane is late or goes technical at the gate

Any half decent airport can manage this - but MAN seems stuck somewhere in the 1970's passenger wise I'm afraid - even GLA is better than this.........

[Scottie Dog]

A different set of T2X photos care of the MANTP Team - taken in May 2019

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[Scottie Dog]

And, as sure as night follows day. the June photo update follows that of May.....

Part 1
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[Scottie Dog]

Part 2

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[Scottie Dog]

MANTP Update #97 courtesy of the MANTP Team

Part 1

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[Scottie Dog]

Update #97

Part 2

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[Scottie Dog]

Manchester Statistics - May 2019

Introduction
Back in September 2015 I decided that I should start to correlate statistics for Manchester and use 2005 as a reference point for historical data. My file now consists of 14 years of monthly figures and 486 destinations that have been served from Manchester over that period.

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.
No new destinations were served in May 2019.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,048,038 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for May.
Neither Belfast City nor Belfast International and Exeter have reported for this month
In May 2018 these accounted for 63,527 passengers.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 2,644,546 +5.78%
Annual Total - 10,694,668
Moving Annual Total - 28,982,780 +3.83%
Monthly Movements - 18,609 +1.42%
Annual Movements - 77.188
Moving Annual Movements - 202,372 +0.22%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
https://i.ibb.co/5c7JfLt/Screenshot-626.png

Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase
https://i.ibb.co/YXF6vFY/Screenshot-627.png

Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic
https://i.ibb.co/wLWtVCC/Screenshot-629.png

Comparison of top 25 destinations - May 2009 versus May 2019
https://i.ibb.co/CzztkQh/Screenshot-630.png

Major changes to Domestic traffic
https://i.ibb.co/6ZhsBRv/Screenshot-635.png

CAA statistics for May are provisional.

As a separate item I have now started to analyse May's statistics to obtain load factors on certain routes
https://i.ibb.co/YtxL3gj/Screenshot-634.png

[Nostoodian]

Great work Scottie Dog. Some interesting analysis here. Some of the American routes seem to be doing well in May accept for Boston for some reason.

Some low load factors for a number of airlines though. Is May sometimes a slow month for routes heading East?

Eithopian is a little low but I think this route needs more time to bed in.

Is the MAN - BGW catering for oil & gas workers with high fares or is it catering for local Iraqis & Kurds visiting home? I remember Libyan Airlines running a similar service not to long ago.

Hainan seems to be fairing quite well with other airlines heading East in May.

[chaps1954]

Ethiopian is a difficult one as we are the second city after Brussels which is well established so I guess we get what Brussels can`t fill or at least not the major share
Iraqi carries a lot of security people or advisors who seem to have bottomless pockets as fares are HIGH
Chinese operators don`t work like the rest of the world so who knows if they are happy but as it looks as if the second route is going to happen with another airline they probably are
Boston started later this year so we will have to wait until June figures are out

[Scottie Dog]

A couple of observations - already partially covered by chaps1954. According to the ACL Start of Season report for S19 Ethiopian have 135 seats per flight from Manchester. This equates to approximately 30% of the aircraft capacity and so if this is correct then the Manchester loads are within an acceptable level.

Singapore Airlines is a harder one to ascertain as the aircraft operates as a through service from Singapore to Houston. Again according to the ACL report the number of seats available from Manchester to Houston is 194 against the aircraft capacity of 253. On this basis Manchester should be looking for a load-factor of approximately 74% of the full aircraft configuration to be operating at 100%.

In both cases I have used the total aircraft capacity for my calculations.

The load-factor calculations of mine are still in their infancy as I am finding, for an example that both Air Transat and Thomas Cook don't stick to a single flight number on a route, but have multiple numbers. I'm doing a daily search of the FR24 database to find anything that I've missed - in the same way that Emirates have various configurations on their A380 and therefore, to be truly accurate, I need to check exactly which aircraft is being used in each flight.

I hope that helps a little.

[sinbad73]

Do we need to have all of these photo updates of MANTP? Takes ages to get past these posts.

[chaps1954]

Yes I would not be happy to lose these as I personally find them very interesting.

[Manchester Exile]

Scroll past them then, Sinbad. For ex-pats like me it's great to see how the face of the airport is changing. Thanks to Scottie Dog for taking the time to upload them.

Given that this forum is intended to discuss airlines, airports and routes I don't think that having updates on the airport development are inappropriate.

[Scottie Dog]

I've just 'tweaked' the figures for Ethiopian Airlines, which routes via Brussels, and Singapore Airlines to reflect the actual number of seats that I understand are offered on their routes, as against the aircraft capacity which I had used in my chart.

On this basis we get the following:

Ethiopian Airlines - 57.88% (assuming Manchester is limited to 135 seats - available seats varies between 270-315 dependant on aircraft type)
Singapore Airlines - Houston - 63.33%(assuming Manchester is limited to 194 seats out of 253)
Singapore Airlines - Singapore - 74.62% (assuming Manchester is limited to 194 seats out of 253)

You also have to remember that freight can make a big difference as to how viable a route can be and, I am led to believe that Manchester almost fills the Ethiopian aircraft on each operation.

[MANFOD]

The Boston route only resumed late May and the number of seats I believe reflects 6 sectors (3 return trips). If pax on the route are primarily MAN originating, it's likely the early return sectors would be very lightly loaded. However, I'm surprised that doesn't appear to have applied to LAX which has a high LF. Is that 5 sectors from VS Scottie? When did TCX resume the route?

SFO with TCX also has a high LF, and personally I was surprised VS dropped that route, leaving it to TCX, while TCX dropped BOS for VS to be the sole operator. I would have thought VS could have benefitted through Virgin Holidays / Fly-Drives of flying into one airport and out from the other but no doubt there were good reasons for what happened.

Many thanks for all the stats Scottie.

[ETOPS]

You would think someone could satisfy the demand for LGW. A figure of 27000 should support a double daily 6 days a week?

PS The "demand" comes from me - I would use that route over my current options of train via Euston or BA to LHR and bus..........

[brian_dromey]

SFO with TCX also has a high LF, and personally I was surprised VS dropped that route, leaving it to TCX, while TCX dropped BOS for VS to be the sole operator. I would have thought VS could have benefitted through Virgin Holidays / Fly-Drives of flying into one airport and out from the other but no doubt there were good reasons for what happened.

Many thanks for all the stats Scottie.

I wonder if the yield is weak, even with good numbers? Its also worth bearing in mind that last summer was incredibly competitive into the bay area from London. BA were flying LGW-OAK, LHR-SJC in addition to a daily A380 and 747 on LHR-SFO. Norwegian also offered SFO and OAK, so it was a competitive market. I realise London and Manchester aren't the same cities, but The Bay Area was particularly fierce.

[tomahawk98]

Premiere handling gone bust??

[spitfire_sl]

Premiere handling gone bust??

apparently so. Have a flight out tomorrow with them, and handling has been refused.

[Nostoodian]

You would think someone could satisfy the demand for LGW. A figure of 27000 should support a double daily 6 days a week?

PS The "demand" comes from me - I would use that route over my current options of train via Euston or BA to LHR and bus..........

Maybe a point 2 point service without any onwards connections would work well. I'm not sure either airport would be keen on a hub airline connecting traffic because of leakage. Can't see it happening though. Route has been dead for to long. Didn't we used to have a point 2 point Stansted service as well?

[VickersVicount]

Scroll past them then, Sinbad. For ex-pats like me it's great to see how the face of the airport is changing. Thanks to Scottie Dog for taking the time to upload them.

Given that this forum is intended to discuss airlines, airports and routes I don't think that having updates on the airport development are inappropriate.
Agree with above. A lot of effort, brand new content and easy to bypass

[RB Thruster]

I presume you are referring to Ryanair then I agree with your comment. You must also remember that the route is well served by Lufthansa and there is no way that I can see them closing the route.

yes, but the price of the Lufthansa flights is outrageous compared to Ryanair. So it’s going to be Schönefeld to Luton, EMA or MAN for me next year, all of which mean heading up to Berlin the night before!

[chaps1954]

If Ryanair are dropping MAN to FRA there must be a reason, either not making any money or maybe had a fallout with one of the airport ( not Manchester as they are still expanding )

[Rutan16]

If you are working in the state of Thuringia especially in the eastern areas crossing over the boarder to Prague may well give better fares and frequencies if you are on a strict budget !

[Scottie Dog]

Ooops an error has crept into my initial load-factor file for April and May. There was an extra TCX flight to JFK that I had not noticed and also I had missed a formula for YVR. I think I should say that this data is 'work in progress'

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/898x581/screenshot_641__3b6440414abdb14825fc9df1d08361e0ec0e5d11.png

[Scottie Dog]

Update #98 courtesy of the MANTP Team to whom I give full credit:

Part 1

https://i.ibb.co/cT8sbHZ/Screenshot-642.png

https://i.ibb.co/kG3dMGN/Screenshot-643.png

https://i.ibb.co/LvyD5Gx/Screenshot-644.png

https://i.ibb.co/88XN0M3/Screenshot-645.png

https://i.ibb.co/pfbQjn9/Screenshot-646.png

https://i.ibb.co/6Jwn6rf/Screenshot-647.png

https://i.ibb.co/cDynPDQ/Screenshot-648.png

https://i.ibb.co/CQq83Z5/Screenshot-649.png

https://i.ibb.co/jT1xJg4/Screenshot-650.png

[Scottie Dog]

Part 2
https://i.ibb.co/CwmtxfL/Screenshot-651.png

https://i.ibb.co/C76SPcW/Screenshot-652.png

https://i.ibb.co/m8YT2Cn/Screenshot-653.png

https://i.ibb.co/Y3NgMM7/Screenshot-654.png

https://i.ibb.co/N1C3kqR/Screenshot-655.png

https://i.ibb.co/8MTncgb/Screenshot-656.png

https://i.ibb.co/qF93DQK/Screenshot-657.png

https://i.ibb.co/4mBtNnY/Screenshot-658.png

https://i.ibb.co/QvdszbK/Screenshot-659.png

[GrahamK]

New routes from easyJet
Verona 2 x weekly year round
Hurghada and Rovaniemi 2 x weekly winter only

[Habana2118]

Who has taken the Premier handling contracts if they are no longer trading ?

[The96er]

Who has taken the Premier handling contracts if they are no longer trading ?

Menzies - Loganair
Stobart - Aurigny / Eurowings
Swissport - EL AL
Aviator - Titan

[spannersatcx]

heard that the apron concrete on 110 is breaking up, TUI was stopped taxiing onto stand due metal reinforcing rods sticking out of the concrete!

[BHX5DME]

Movements +1.8%

Seats + 4.1%

[EZYMAN]

Slot information for W19

Alitalia Daily LIN
SpiceJet BOM
Lauda Motion RIX
Anisec (Level) SZG
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MAN-W19-Initial-Coordination-Report.pdf

[AndrewH52]

Slot information for W19

Alitalia Daily LIN
SpiceJet BOM
Lauda Motion RIX
Anisec (Level) SZG
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MAN-W19-Initial-Coordination-Report.pdf

Presumably Lauda would operate instead of Ryanair on Riga? Can’t see both airlines on the route.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

If this is the case then is the MAN - PEK service even profitable and sustainable using an A330-300? It would seem a 787-900 daily service would be a much better fit as others have said. It seems like a strange decision by Hainan not to change equipment on the route. The route can't be doing that bad as Hainan was thinking of starting a 3 x daily Guangzhou route not long ago. Checking through multiple dates later in the year, economy fares seemed quite cheap so yield could be quite low. Then again there's plenty of competition from other airlines as you can fly to Beijing indirect for £350 return on certain months later in autumn. Maybe Hainan knows something we don't. With the Virgin takeover of Flybe and possible Thomas Cook long haul in the future, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin could take on a Chinese route like Beijing with the opening of Daxing International. They already serve Shanghai from Heathrow. Does Virgin have any codeshares with Chinese Airlines?

I believe the PEK yields are not brilliant but sustainable.

CAN I think would be commercial suicide unless heavily subsidised. No real market, too close to HKG plus it would make CX rather unhappy.

As for the last question (may have been answered not seen the rest of the thread). Pretty sure CA operate a codeshare with VS on LHR-PEK.

[Suzeman]

heard that the apron concrete on 110 is breaking up, TUI was stopped taxiing onto stand due metal reinforcing rods sticking out of the concrete!

Blimey - that sounds like a major defect.

Good job someone was on the ball whilst preparing the stand for the arrival.

[Nostoodian]

I believe the PEK yields are not brilliant but sustainable.

CAN I think would be commercial suicide unless heavily subsidised. No real market, too close to HKG plus it would make CX rather unhappy.

As for the last question (may have been answered not seen the rest of the thread). Pretty sure CA operate a codeshare with VS on LHR-PEK.

I think Hainan should maybe leave Guangzhou well alone like you say. China Southern would be the best fit for Guangzhou offering splendid connectivity to the rest of China. I'd like to see Hainan offer a service a few days a week to their hub in Xian, but as FFman alluded to, non Chinese passengers have lost interest in their product. Xian - Beijing is a very popular Tourist route.

[Scottie Dog]

Blimey - that sounds like a major defect.

Good job someone was on the ball whilst preparing the stand for the arrival.

As has been said it's good to know that somebody was keeping their eyes open. I'm just slightly surprised that there has been no OAN or NOTAM issued to show that the stand is closed for repairs?

[MANworker]

Can’t believe they’ve not repaired stand 110 from last week when a TUI was held off stand and stand changed due to the same issues. There’s 2/3 rods just off centre line and a big chunk of concrete missing further down the stand

[spannersatcx]

Can’t believe they’ve not repaired stand 110 from last week when a TUI was held off stand and stand changed due to the same issues. There’s 2/3 rods just off centre line and a big chunk of concrete missing further down the stand

it may well be the same one I was told of?

[BHX5DME]

https://mediacentre.magairports.com/manchester-airport-serves-29-million-passengers-a-year-for-the-first-time/

[pilot9250]

I believe the PEK yields are not brilliant but sustainable.

CAN I think would be commercial suicide unless heavily subsidised. No real market, too close to HKG plus it would make CX rather unhappy.

As for the last question (may have been answered not seen the rest of the thread). Pretty sure CA operate a codeshare with VS on LHR-PEK.

I suppose "too close to HKG" is a matter of perspective.

It's easier to land in Newcastle when your destination is London, than it is to land in Hong Kong when your destination is Guangzhou.

Agreed with the comment that China Southern would work better but unclear the domestic politics of that.

[LandingConfig]

It's easier to land in Newcastle when your destination is London, than it is to land in Hong Kong when your destination is Guangzhou.

A quick Google search reveals that there are high speed trains from Hong Kong to Guangzhou that take less than an hour meanwhile the fastest trains from Newcastle to London are around 3 hours. How did you come to that conclusion?

[GSM763]

A quick Google search reveals that there are high speed trains from Hong Kong to Guangzhou that take less than an hour meanwhile the fastest trains from Newcastle to London are around 3 hours. How did you come to that conclusion?
There's a fairly long border control process (the queue stretched for about half a km when I was in Hong Kong) that you'd want to leave plenty of time for. However, you can get a ferry to the mainland from Hong Kong airport without entering Hong Kong via the SkyPier.

[pilot9250]

There's a fairly long border control process (the queue stretched for about half a km when I was in Hong Kong) that you'd want to leave plenty of time for. However, you can get a ferry to the mainland from Hong Kong airport without entering Hong Kong via the SkyPier.

Indeed and to state the obvious, to use the high speed train route you have to clear Hong Kong immigration twice.

There's also a transfer from HKIA to Kowloon allowing time for the connection.

I've done it on the old train in about 5 hours so I guess you could do it on the new one in about 4.

Not dissimilar to landing in Newcastle to get to London.

Of course the airfare to HKG would probably be rather higher, so you would likely be paying a pretty penny to insert a fairly complex additional transit.

Not great for people who would want to save money, people with small children, people with lots of luggage, people in a hurry or those wanting to maximise predictability.

[Nostoodian]

Indeed and to state the obvious, to use the high speed train route you have to clear Hong Kong immigration twice.

There's also a transfer from HKIA to Kowloon allowing time for the connection.

I've done it on the old train in about 5 hours so I guess you could do it on the new one in about 4.

Not dissimilar to landing in Newcastle to get to London.

Of course the airfare to HKG would probably be rather higher, so you would likely be paying a pretty penny to insert a fairly complex additional transit.

Not great for people who would want to save money, people with small children, people with lots of luggage, people in a hurry or those wanting to maximise predictability.

To add to this, you're not going to suddenly get off the high speed train in Guangzhou and walk straight into your house. Other trains & buses will be needed to complete the journey. Guangzhou City & it's suburbs are very vast. Take for instance a commute from one part of Beijing to the other can take up to two hours depending upon the time of day. Another 1 to 2 hours commute maybe needed to reach your final destination after arriving in central Guangzhou.

[Nostoodian]

Manchester City pre-season tour flight cancelled due to being refused airspace. Apparently a Thomas Cook admin error. A costly one at that. Does anyone know how that could happen?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-tour-flight-cancelled-16581159

[spannersatcx]

Manchester City pre-season tour flight cancelled due to being refused airspace. Apparently a Thomas Cook admin error. A costly one at that. Does anyone know how that could happen?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-tour-flight-cancelled-16581159

Managerless Newcastle United departed no problem on the CX flt though!:D

[Nostoodian]

Managerless Newcastle United departed no problem on the CX flt though!:D
Man City flight cancelled again to Shanghai. Someone somewhere at Thomas Cook must be getting a roasting. Man City will be absolutely furious. Pre season tours are big business. With the launch of their new sponsor Puma and their new kits this is deeply embarrassing.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-tour-flight-cancelled-16583958

[chaps1954]

Where does TCX actually get involved as the aircraft is Nexus Airlines of South Africa, did TCX do all the planning or did Nexus?
as there is no mention of TCX anywhere

[Nostoodian]

Where does TCX actually get involved as the aircraft is Nexus Airlines of South Africa, did TCX do all the planning or did Nexus?
as there is no mention of TCX anywhere
There's many news sources reporting a Thomas Cook clerical error failed to book a slot with air traffic controllers. Thomas Cook must be chartering the aircraft from Nexus because Thomas Cook is Man City's travel agent. Maybe next time they will use Etihad. They're their main sponsor after all. It's absolute balls up. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Cook will have to shell out some compensation for this.