Aer Lingus - 6

[Jack1985]

Absolutely appalled by the publics treatment of Aer Lingus staff in recent days. It may sound hilarious I've written such an initial statement, but to see fellow colleagues, recorded in public by passengers and to see a fellow colleague called ''an old bat'' because just two people in Dublin where on duty to deal with over 700 passengers, is just absolutely unacceptable. Staff where a uniform, its management who dictate how many staff are on duty to deal with crisis events, its a clear fact, the weather influenced the recent delays and cancellations and there lies the fault, I can't believe people take to the tweet machine (sorry its Pprune) to then say, ''I'm sorry if you believe you can't call women bats on here you are at fault'' its;


Immature
Highly disrespectful
And utterly disgraceful


We are all humans, I challenge you to where the uniform on that day.

Fair play to all on duty on the 27th and the 28th.

[bannercounty]

@Jack.

It's appalling alright and Mueller is ultimately responsible and not those who are not in control of the company. The frustration is probably vented even more so by passengers due to the number of cancellations over the past few days when Ryanair cancelled damn all flights in comparison to Aer Lingus. Questions need to be answered insofar as why so many flights were cancelled in comparison to Ryanair. Both companies had positioning issues due to diversions but Aer Lingus seem to be the ones operating to the bare bone in terms of personnel.

[j636]

Ryanair have crew and aircraft on tap unlike other airlines. When EI divert usually crew are out of hours and they overnight passengers in hotels, Ryanair don't, Ryanair did cancel some flights. Many regional flights were affected which explains a lot while mainline flights were combined as much as possible. From what I saw they were trying to get all T/A passengers out of DUB on 27 Dec and when you lose the first 90 minutes of schedules getting replacement slots at main airports isn't not easy while in F24 one flight to PRG taxed and then found out there route plan had being cancelled and had to do a trip around DUB before they got another. Also what would of being the setup at DUB on the 27 as when flights resumed Ryanair had most of the departure slots first so I expect those were kept before EI were given some. It was close to 9 before many EI flights got out.

However I did see some pics on FB and more staff ahold of being drafted in to deal with backlog

[Jack1985]

It's appalling alright and Mueller is ultimately responsible and not those who are not in control of the company. The frustration is probably vented even more so by passengers due to the number of cancellations over the past few days when Ryanair cancelled damn all flights in comparison to Aer Lingus. Questions need to be answered insofar as why so many flights were cancelled in comparison to Ryanair. Both companies had positioning issues due to diversions but Aer Lingus seem to be the ones operating to the bare bone in terms of personnel.

I know he is CEO but he does not dictate everything, my own point was where were the duty managers. j636 gives a very good point with regards positioning issues above.

[Epsomdog]

RyanAir have a distinct advantage in that they have, more aircraft and crews in non affected airports, to draw on. Also the pax do not have the same level of service expectation that the Aer Lingus customers have.

I can't speak for events in Ireland recently, only those in the UK on the 23rd.

"Where were the duty managers"?

Well in London they were busy phoning around trying to find transport and accommodation for 300+ passengers, at 2am that's no mean task!

I can see both sides of the story and understand that pax need positive information! There's not a great deal to be gained by offering yourself as a sacrificial lamb to irate pax. When your energy will be much better used actually resolving the problem!

It never fails to amaze me how abusive pax can be with the airline staff!

[racedo]

Absolutely appalled by the publics treatment of Aer Lingus staff in recent days. It may sound hilarious I've written such an initial statement, but to see fellow colleagues, recorded in public by passengers and to see a fellow colleague called ''an old bat'' because just two people in Dublin where on duty to deal with over 700 passengers, is just absolutely unacceptable. Staff where a uniform, its management who dictate how many staff are on duty to deal with crisis events, its a clear fact, the weather influenced the recent delays and cancellations and there lies the fault, I can't believe people take to the tweet machine (sorry its PPRuNe) to then say, ''I'm sorry if you believe you can't call women bats on here you are at fault'' its;

Irrespective of the incident there is no excuse for abuse of frontline staff.................in many cases they left knowing even less than passengers.

[racedo]

RyanAir have a distinct advantage in that they have, more aircraft and crews in non affected airports, to draw on. Also the pax do not have the same level of service expectation that the Aer Lingus customers have.


You really want to go with that ?

Level of expectation of service is you get from Airport A to Airport B in reasonable time ................for overwhelming majority of passengers it doesn't get any more complicated than that.

We may kid ourselves that its Boeing or Airbus, Flag carrier v Other but passengers have simple idea..........get them where they want to go with as little hassle as possibe.

[Una Due Tfc]

As racedo said, there is NEVER an excuse to abuse frontline staff. The efforts made by the airlines to get people home, especially those in EI ops who I talked to over the Christmas period, were phenomenal. Even in the event you are being treated poorly by frontline staff at any airline, it is likely due to the company rules and regulations that staff member has to follow. Don't play the man (or woman), play the ball

[Jack1985]

Irrespective of the incident there is no excuse for abuse of frontline staff.................in many cases they left knowing even less than passengers.

Exactly! And it's actually ridiculous that this is the case in most events. You would think in today's world where information flows so fast, that staff would not be the current scapegoats until background operational staff come up with new information, in any event it should be directly relayed to the consumer with no delay this in my opinion would actually most probably see the number of refunds reduced as consumers would be directly aware of the latest information, I actually applaud the use by easyJet operations staff via their Flight Tracker of up to date information. It's not something seen quite sector wide yet.

As racedo said, there is NEVER an excuse to abuse frontline staff. The efforts made by the airlines to get people home, especially those in EI ops who I talked to over the Christmas period, were phenomenal. Even in the event you are being treated poorly by frontline staff at any airline, it is likely due to the company rules and regulations that staff member has to follow. Don't play the man (or woman), play the ball

Wholeheartedly agree, it's so rare that frontline staff would abuse passengers however as in any job it can happen there is always the 1% who give a bad reputation to the 99%. Your last two sentences, they really say it all its company regulations these days that fully dictate the outcome of operational events, unfortunately I might add as well some staff sought to ignore it and find immediate resolutions only to be confronted with non-appearing!! (on those nights) frontline duty managers with repercussions. You might hear more of that in the following weeks.


Regardless, Happy New Year to all of you, may 2014 be a great year for all! :)

[mart901]

Hi does anyone know have the A319's had the seating reconfigured yet, I believe they were due to be?

[EISNN]

Reconfigured? Higher capacity?

[Shamrock350]

Judging by the complaints to Aer Lingus on social media the legroom is still as tight as ever on the A319 fleet.

[EI-BUD]

In some rows on EI 319's leg room awful. Rows at front are more spacious, much to the detriment of passengers further down the aircraft . Vast difference between EI 320 and 319, IMHO.

[Cian]

The 319s have Iberia interiors still - first few rows configured for business with legroom, later rows configured to immobilise anyone over 6 foot for the entire flight.

Two of the 320s were ex-IB and were reconfigured over the winter after their introduction; however there's much less slack in what the 319s are assigned to do (not that they couldn't swap a 320 in anyway) to get them out for a refit. However, still time before the summer schedule starts.

What's particularly annoying is that on lighter loaded 319 flights the 'good' seats aren't ever open at online checkin.

[Una Due Tfc]

When are EI due to take delivery of their first 757?

[Shamrock350]

At least two 757s are already in Shannon getting their new cabins and hopefully a coat of green paint. The third is still flying with Finnair I think.

Air Contractors stated on 6 December that the first had gone into the hangers for a month so it would be nice to see the first one rolled out next week.

[Una Due Tfc]

Thanks Shamrock

[akerosid]

One of the A320s operating for VS has a hard landing at LHR last Thursday, 16 Jan ...

Incident: Aer Lingus A320 at London on Jan 16th 2014, hard landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=46ee4868&opt=0)

Couldn't help noticing that the load factor was pretty poor - 47 on board means c.41 pax and 6 crew, or less than 1/4 full. They have been having low LFs since this project commenced; can't help wondering how long it will last.

Photo: EI-EZV (CN: 2001) Virgin Atlantic Airways (Aer Lingus) Airbus A320-214 by John Fitzpatrick - JetPhotos.Net (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7657500&nseq=16)

[Jack1985]

Doesn't concern Aer Lingus about LF's or how long the partnership lasts they get there money. Plenty of opportunities for those 4 320's.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Concerning numerous previous posts, the absolute legal dispatch minimum for 757 ops with pax on board can be just 3 cc, depending on the door config. Some 757-200 have no door 3, just the over wing exits... Condor and Delta to name just two operators of this config. Of course with 3 cc max 150 pax and no redundancy for loosing a crew member.

The EI 757s are also PW powered which on average burn around 1t less fuel per T/A crossing when compared to the heavier RR. It can take a while on full clb to reach cruise alt mind :bored:

[Skipness One Echo]

The EI 757s are also PW powered which on average burn around 1t less fuel per T/A crossing when compared to the heavier RR.
Why did the Rolls Royce RB211 dominate sales if the PW2037 was so much more efficient?

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Good question. RR was the chosen engine for the launch of the 757, although I believe in the States the PW variant is (was) the more common of the two.

For the likes of BA, a joint launch customer, it had commonality with its 767/744 fleets - certainly for the second batch ordered, presenting maintenance cost savings.

But I understand alot came down to reliability and maintenance schedules - On wing life of PW as low as 7k hrs with RR achieving close 40k hrs on wing (extreme cases taken). Reliability being crucial for ETOPS.

RR was of course more powerful with better performance figures, and I guess fuel burn wasn't so critical 30+ years ago! (1t saving is round trip T/A crossing, my correction).

[Dontgothere]

LBR has rolled out of painting.

B757 EI-LBR AER LINGUS colours | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31840736@N08/12227198946/in/photolist-jCtAfW-jCqzoR-5YcSAu-jCh7xm-jBNWqF-jBR1Nh-jBNYJ9-jBaTnd-jB9YxW-jATe5v-5bssfW-jAtdEv-jAhR6F-jA5Z7o-jzY2Ti-jzHwTK-jzKCRm-jzHwrH-jzHuqt-jzFf7J-jzBp4C-jzyZzh-jzzdeh-jzwdFK-jzzh65-jzyrp5-jzyG2o-jzwpt4-jzwMWk-jzwpqP-jzvmYi-jzxMbw-jzuw32-jzuYoX-jztU5t-jzspXk-jzsPcB-jzskHZ-jzvQkJ-jzsJT6-jzw7xU-jzsSiX-jzvsY5-jzr56P-jzttxd-jzssve-jzswkt-jzsHfz-jzsPX3-jzsDQ9-jztFvd)

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Up to 1t on a transatlantic crossing isn't all that much, maybe even less vital when you take into account maintenance, reliability, (total) cost of ownership etc. I have no opinion one way or the other, just saying its not all about fuel burn, otherwise any two competing engines will always have a loser.

[Mlinnie]

Will the other 2 757s be painted in the Full Livery??

[j636]

Looks like EI have learned from the previous weather problems by cancelling 7 mainline and 10 regional flights and given passengers at least 12 hours notice. Should make life easier for staff.

[Shanair]

The 757 departed Shannon for Boston Today 1st Feb on a proving flight as EIN2133. Due back into Dublin Monday morning as EIN2132. Photos of the departure at Flickr: shanairpic's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/shanair/)

[m36mike]

Had the privilege of being on board EI-LBR today before it departed SNN for BOS as flt EI-2133. I have to say I was quite surprised with the interior. I took some pics but I dont think it is appropriate yet to put them up online.

[Jack1985]

Just for those wondering if LBR will bare that colour scheme, it won't - Simply until LBS is fully ready and painted in full Aer Lingus livery - at that time LBR will re-enter the hanger to be fully re-painted, LBT will be fully repainted before entering service alike LBS.

[NABLAG]

Jack1985 you're a man in the know, there was a rumour that one of the 3 (757s) would be painted in a retro livery, any truth in the rumour ?

[Jack1985]

there was a rumour that one of the 3 (757s) would be painted in a retro livery, any truth in the rumour ?

Wouldn't that be a nice sight now! :) unfortunately there are lots of rumours concerning the 757's and I'm afraid we won't see that happen - But with the delays encountered so far with these 757's and with Air Contractors coughing up for it who knows they might be wise-enough to add that little sweetener! Sure would be a pretty sight.

[EI-A330-300]

All normal colours, love the retro jet and think one of the 350's would look great in it when they arrive.

[mart901]

In what way surprised by the interior Mike? For good or for bad?

[fivejuliet]

Cabin looks very good from front to back. Plenty of pictures online of it now

[mart901]

Where we looking fivejuliet?

[DollarBill]

Saw twitter links posted elsewhere..... search "coolyourjets" on twitter

[EI-A330-300]

The next 757 has being sent to Norwich to get painted.

[ATCO97]

Can't find any interior pics of 757 on net
Any help?

[Shamrock350]

A few views of the business and economy cabin in this video by Aer Lingus.

Celebrating our inaugural B757 flight from Shannon to Boston, February 5, 2014 - YouTube

Business Seat looks nice enough.

[BHD2BFS]

Just wondering if anyone knows the base breakdown of EI aircraft?
I know belfast is 2 a319 in winter and 2 a319 and 1 a320 in summer, but was wondering about everywhere else

[EI-A330-300]

BHD - 2 A319 -- 2 A319/1 A320
SNN - 1 A319 (swapped with LGW), 2 B757
LGW - 1 A320 (swapped with SNN)
ORK - 3 A320 -- 4 A320
DUB - 1 A319, 23 A320, 3 A321, 7 A330, 1 B757


Then the 4 A320 in UK.


Operationally AFAIK at least 1 A320 is more less standby to cover problems around the network and of course all there fleet isn't active at DUB in winter, of the SH around 20/21 are with others in use over peak periods of the winter. And two A320 or 321 depends overnight in LHR most of the week.

[Jack1985]

1 A319 is Gatwick based ~ Occasionally subs in at Dublin.

[mart901]

Plenty of interior pics on fb, it looks like a really good refit.

[EI-A330-300]

1 A319 is Gatwick based ~ Occasionally subs in at Dublin. Sorry currently yes, I was going on from March, SNN not getting the 320 back for the summer and at the minute LGW has it. The DUB based 319 is going doing some BHX and LGW flights with the 320 at DUB/LGW scheduled for the rest on those routes.


I also notice that DUB has got its 13th LHR flight daily back for the summer which had being changed to allow a W to ORK at suitable times but ORK still has 5 departures and the 06.40 departure from LHR and 20.10 from DUB are back.

Have BA given a slot or Little Red?

[Una Due Tfc]

EI lease a lot of slots out at LHR, only BA, Virgin and Lufthansa own more. Maybe a lease ended recently and EI decided to keep it for themselves. How many EI flights in each direction were there back in the boom time?

[EI-BUD]

Una Due TFC
For years 13 daily had been the norm on DUB LHR, though it may have 14 rotations at a point . But more significantly there have been larger aircraft on the route 321 a plenty and in the days of 767, they put in regular appearances too.

My understanding was that EI had 2 slot pairs leased to Virgin but these had been returned and these facilitate extra flights like since BHD was added / Shannon returned. Are there other's leased out?

They also recently sold an early departure slot to BA.

[EI-A330-300]

They also recently sold an early departure slot to BA.

That was supposed to be the times listed above, EI came out and said they wanted to sell it as it was to costly to operate it and wanted a better one which was the fifth Cork one.

As for leased slots I think United may have a long term lease with EI but not sure if they still do.

[Una Due Tfc]

IIRC correctly, they got quite a few when they joined oneworld and BA buggered off. Always heard they got far more than they needed or would ever need and leased a number of them out because somebody realised how much money they could get out of them by holding on to them

[David Sharpe]

Picking up on the earlier comments regarding the 13th daily Dublin to Heathrow service coming back for Summer 2014.
Currently, the online timetable only appears to have this service operating between 11th May and 1st August. Is this correct, or does the timetable still require updating to reflect a more season long programme ?

[Jack1985]

OH-LBS (Soon to be EI-LBS) arrived back from NWI painted in full house colours :) LBR should be re-entering the hanger for some TLC anytime now!

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/434282208631980032

[EI-A330-300]

Full Year profit of €61.1 million, inline with the revised estimate made in September however CEO believes they could of done better for the year but pension problems distracted some other areas of cost.


IN 2014:
Q1 - Launch cost optimisation and revenue excellence (CORE) a 2 year pregame which aims to deliver cost and business optimisation 30 million savings,


Beds in Business Class


New reservation system/website and some improvement of app.


Q! expected to be weaker because of last Easter and current trading but over all profits for 2014 to be inline with 2013.


Airbus cannot meet the deliver dates for A350's and are currently discussing with EI about this, now expected all 9 will be delivered between 2018 and 2020, expected EI will take all 9 and they will be a mix of A350-900 and A350-900R.


http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media/corporateaerlinguscom/content/pdfs/AerLingusGroupplc2013preliminaryresultsreleaseFINAL240214.pd f

[Una Due Tfc]

A350 for JFK, ORD, BOS and YYZ, R's for west coast and MCO. Sounds about right. Begs the question what will happen with the SNN flights when the 757s are gone, if an A332 is too much plane for SNN....

[MCDU2]

A320/1 NEO would be the logical fit. Well on paper at least. Time will tell what performance data Mr Airbus comes up with from flight testing.

[EI-A330-300]

If both Air Contractors and Aer Lingus are happy with the B757 deal after 3 years I'm sure they could extend it until EI decide which future aircraft will be uesed but agree the A321 NEO will probaly be it.

[Shamrock350]

A350 for JFK, ORD, BOS and YYZ, R's for west coast and MCO. Sounds about right. Begs the question what will happen with the SNN flights when the 757s are gone, if an A332 is too much plane for SNN....
Wouldn't it be the other way around for the A350?

A350-900 for west coast, possibly further afield while the 900R (Regional) which has less range and lower MTOW would be used for east coast.

Aer Lingus say they are looking at what to do once the 757s leave, Airbus will be under pressure to deliver the range on the A321NEO. I think the 757s will be around for a lot longer than the current 3 year contract though.

[Una Due Tfc]

Standard 359 is too heavy for Dublin-west coast, would be load restricted.

Current A319 has the same range as the B752, although I can only imagine what the fares would be on that.

[racedo]

Full Year profit of €61.1 million, inline with the revised estimate made in September however CEO believes they could of done better for the year but pension problems distracted some other areas of cost.
IN 2014:
Q1 - Launch cost optimisation and revenue excellence (CORE) a 2 year pregame which aims to deliver cost and business optimisation 30 million savings,

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media...INAL240214.pdf (http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=1e857e7500cdd32403f752206c297a3d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fairlines-airports-routes%2F459473-aer-lingus-6-a-103.html&out=http%3A%2F%2Fcorporate.aerlingus.com%2Fmedia%2Fcorporate aerlinguscom%2Fcontent%2Fpdfs%2FAerLingusGroupplc2013prelimi naryresultsreleaseFINAL240214.pdf&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fairlines-airports-routes%2F459473-aer-lingus-6-a-104.html)

A year of standing still.

Still committed to given €140 million to pension fund and that is excluding anything for pilots assumming shareholders agree

Strike still seems to be in the offing in March which will kill revenue around St Patricks day.

[EI-A330-300]

A year of standing still.

Still committed to given €140 million to pension fund and that is excluding anything for pilots assumming shareholders agree

Strike still seems to be in the offing in March which will kill revenue around St Patricks day. Given they expected 69-70 but revised it to 60 because of the weather and the market softness in Q3 and Q4 I think they did well considering. Remember a lot of once off costs such as Virgin and extra A330 doing nothing for 3 months and set up costs around 55 million. Then there is the savings of the 119 staff who left the company in late Nov/Dec have not reflected in the results as expected oh and lets not forget the legal costs against your friends :E

I believe its 110 million for the pension however if a strike happens in March (no way will the government allow it) over that weekend. The total costs of the strike will be deducted from the 110 million they propose to pay.

[racedo]

I believe its 110 million for the pension however if a strike happens in March (no way will the government allow it) over that weekend. The total costs of the strike will be deducted from the 110 million they propose to pay.

Nope

Its €140 million, €110 for current €30 for old.......................old habit is one of reading reports :) and this despite saying legal advice says they owe zilch.

It does of course also say that nothing has been included in respect of Pilot Scheme - bottom page 9.

If you only making €60 a year then 2 1/2 yrs to pay for Pension scheme.

[ayroplain]

if a strike happens in March (no way will the government allow it) over that weekend.
I assume you mean that the Government will not allow a strike to take place over the St. Patrick's weekend (because, of course, they're all lined up for their annual worldwide junkets partly, at least, on Aer Lingus flights) and, if so, what action do you think they (the Government) are likely to take that will stop it. A lot of people are on tenterhooks over this as the DAA is also involved as far as we know.

[Jack1985]

Racedo,

A year of standing still.

What rubbish? Let's look at facts instead of bold statements:


Total revenue up 2.3% year on year with average fare revenue per seat up 2.0%
Effective network capacity management resulted in load factor climbing 0.7 points to 78.4% with increases achieved on both short and long haul services
Very strong long haul performance with revenue up 11.1%, passengers numbers up 12.2% and load factor up 0.6 points on increased capacity of 11.6%
Short haul revenue down 3.3% due to extremely good weather in Ireland and Northern Europe in the peak Summer period and increasingly competitive pricing environment in Q3 and Q4 2013. Capacity managed tightly to protect margins
Operating profit, before net exceptional items, of €61.1 million is in line with stated guidance
Continued balance sheet strength: gross cash of €897.4 million at year end and an 11.4% increase in net cash to €419.8 million
Proposed dividend of four cent per share for 2013 is in line with prior year. Expected maintaining of dividends at this annual level for the foreseeable future.


As has been pointed out the introduction of the Cost Optimisation and Revenue Excellence (CORE) programme will drive down costs by a further €30m over the next financial 2 years by driving 3 parameters;


Cost and business optimisation.
Enhancing revenues by focusing on merchandising, retail revenue and business-to-customer distribution system.
Further improvements in staff engagement, training, flexibility and productivity.


Looking at the operations side of Aer Lingus in 2013;


Profitable expansion of L/H operations through the re-deployment of an additional A330 aircraft allowing an increase in frequency on Dublin to Boston and Chicago services. This additional capacity was fully sold.
Successful launch of contract flying business: “Little Red” domestic UK services on behalf of Virgin Atlantic and L/H service from Scandinavia to the Caribbean for the tour operator Novair.
New and expanded codeshare agreements with United Airlines and Air Canada.
New retail initiatives such as pre-order, enhanced and refreshed meal offerings on short haul and long haul services, wi-fi on our transatlantic services and new checked baggage options.
Planned L/H expansion in 2014 with new services to Toronto and San Francisco and increased frequency on services from Shannon to Boston and New York. Seat capacity up by 20% facilitated by the damp lease of three Boeing 757 aircraft from ASL Aviation Group.


Statistics side of 2014,

An increase in net cash of 11.4% from 376.9m to 419.8m. Decrease in gross bebt by 10.2%. As well as this revenue, free cash flow, AFRPS and AFRPP are all up.

In a year where S/H demand dropped for all S/H operators in Ireland/UK during the latter stages of 2013, this is an excellent result in performance.

Aer Lingus issued one profit warning, its largest competitor had to issue two and change its business model. Solid performance.

Regarding the pressing issues, doing the rounds now that SIPTU bosses are more or less set on the new pension plan, those with plus 30 years of service pensions are being scrutinised as we speak. With regards the gov intervening in any such dispute which is far from guaranteed, not a chance will it happen - This the same gov which is prancing on egg shells with recent revelations, intervening in a public company's dispute regardless of its holding would be union suicide.

It does of course also say that nothing has been included in respect of Pilot Scheme

More or less has been sorted, negotiations took place pre-xmas, final negotiations taking place any day now - all parties were in agreement at the last meeting.

I'll finish with this, 2013 was challenging and Aer Lingus met the challenge head-on - As it will do in 2014. Staff and Management are in agreement more costs can be cut, and they will - The airline still operates with some of the highest margins per seat in Europe. The argument Racedo is trying to present is nonsensical and honestly nothing more then rubbish, with the usual post ''standing still'' blah blah blah, it's as if you invested a lot with your buddy's in FR at the same time. I'd hate to see his views on a successful airline, oh wait... :}

[mart901]

You have to hand it to racedo, he is at least consistent in his unwaivering support of the airline that managed last year to be voted the worst for customer service even when put in a category for big brands, not just airlines, worse even than energy companies whose names are like mud currently. It was interesting talking to a client recently in a major travel company who won't sell FR seats as part of their packages because its deemed bad for business. The very business model changes Jack1985 was referring to are a mimick of EZY and EI, their two most despised rivals.

It might be worth noting EI is one of the few profitable airlines in Europe currently and manages to be so relatively independently and without global alliance.

[racedo]

All very well Jack but how again are they going to fund this €140 million for one pension scheme and whatever is required for the other.

€60 million profit and it being clear that this year will be a tough one to follow.

[Jack1985]

It might be worth noting EI is one of the few profitable airlines in Europe currently and manages to be so relatively independently and without global alliance.

Precisely. Just an update, unions will meet with the DAA Wednesday afternoon and with Aer Lingus Thursday afternoon.

All very well Jack but how again are they going to fund this €140 million for one pension scheme and whatever is required for the other.

I have no idea what there plans are to fund the €140m, but with large and growing cash reserves I'm sure management will weigh up the pro's and con's to touching that ~ For the pilots, it seems legal advice given to Aer Lingus and to IALPA by its own legal team, show little liability for Aer Lingus. At the same time, Aer Lingus won't leave its pilots high and dry so there will be compromise but I understand it will not involve financial contribution on behalf of Aer Lingus.

[MCDU2]

I love it how Racedo never answers a question nor counters when a negative fact is pointed out about his employer.

Jack, the pilot scheme is actually in quite good shape. The pain was taken a few years ago when it was de risked and employee contributions were increased to 11%. The AL legal advice is always that AL has no liability. This has to be the case from ALs and its advisors point of view. Consider the implications if someone actually came out and said that AL was or could be liable. There would be law suits galore beteem the scheme, all the advisors, lawyers plus the auditors. Counter suits left right and centre. If you think the raft of "Bertie" tribunals cost a lot then think again. Mind you it would be a win win for the legal profession!

[Angry Rebel]

How will they fund it? If that is the best Racedo can offer then best not to feed the troll....:=

They have €897m in gross cash of which none seems to be restricted and when you deduct debt they still have €420m. They could write a cheque in the morning.

If they wanted to maintain current cash reserves (e.g. to fund upcoming PDPs or fund cost takeout programmes) they would have a queue of banks around the back of H6 offering them debt of €140m based on €60m of profit and €420m of net cash in the bank.

[VanBosh]

So in the coming weeks we will see the expansion to two new NA destinations. What are people's thoughts on how ambitious EI are in terms of future growth? Will they expand again next year or will they give it a year or two? Which routes would be next on their list, I think looking at gaps from Ireland, possibly somewhere in Texas or Miami or perhaps a return to LAX but Sfo might delay that. Would they venture to Mexico?

[Una Due Tfc]

With the new routes EI's long haul aircraft are maxed out, won't be any spare capacity until the A350s arrive, or they lease some more aircraft, and I think Mr. Mueller knows the dangers of expanding too quickly.

[Jack1985]

So in the coming weeks we will see the expansion to two new NA destinations. What are people's thoughts on how ambitious EI are in terms of future growth? Will they expand again next year or will they give it a year or two? Which routes would be next on their list, I think looking at gaps from Ireland, possibly somewhere in Texas or Miami or perhaps a return to LAX but Sfo might delay that. Would they venture to Mexico?

I'd love to see Los Angeles back, but I think they'd give SFO a few years before thinking of further West Coast expansion. Miami and Texas definitely are contenders but the key to Aer Lingus expansion in the last few years has been weighing up capacity against the Irish diaspora in the States and actual demand, maybe even St. Louis? untapped market potential which I think if you through a 757 on could earn you some money especially with there level of connections now ex-DUB.

With the new routes EI's long haul aircraft are maxed out, won't be any spare capacity until the A350s arrive, or they lease some more aircraft, and I think Mr. Mueller knows the dangers of expanding too quickly.

To be fair so far we've seen increases of upwards of 10% the last two years in Long/Haul, many would regard that as massive expansion as would I.

[VanBosh]

Would they try taking some of the Irish diaspora from US at PHL I wonder.

[elle may clampit]

Sure hope the diaspora don't get bored visiting - still one resident leaving Irish shores for far off fields every five mins according to Gov stats :bored:

[Jack1985]

Sure hope the diaspora don't get bored visiting

Ah here, not a chance its the land of green grass, flooding, rain and missing leprechauns stashed full of badly needed cash. :)

[EI-A330-300]

Don't think there will be much further L/H growth, they will let the market settle in 2015, at least bookings for the new routes are where they expected and overall bookings in 2014 are up. They might add something in 2016 or 17. Wouldn't worry about no A350's there current A330 fleet is very young apart from 1 or 2 of the 7 aircraft and EY will have free A330's over the next while. They have A380 and 787's coming into their fleet from lather this year and of course there is lots of leases possible.

Main aim of EI is to increase LF's within current capacity where possible.


Just on the possible strike action, SIPTU have just announced their own employees must take a 20% cut in pensions to address their own 103 million hole. The irony of it......

[Jack1985]

Agree FY15 could be a stability year however with the level
of growth from all parties in all long haul markets I wouldn't be surprised to see a lease and further announcement (just sayin'):ok:

Regards the last part of your post A330, indeed the absolute irony haha - be more in there interest to give us all a years free membership.

[Jack1985]

EI-LBT 3rd 757 now rolled out as ''St. Brendan'' looking spectacular, heading for its cabin fit now.

[Sober Lark]

Grown tired of the Aer Lingus adverts for seat sales that we all know are not really a sale?

Well here's a tip: Aer Lingus always seem to have a strike pending so all you do is wait until they serve notice and hey presto you get a real seat sale offer. :)

[EI-A330-300]

They are the same as Ryanair when advertising.

Saved 120 euro for two with EI over FR for thy same flights on same day when I booked earlier. Does not include baggage so I would save even further with EI.

[stab3.5up]

I think aer lingus seat sales are the DFS of the airline world.

[Jack1985]

All-out strike notice given to Aer Lingus and the DAA between 5am and 9 am on Friday 14th March 2014. It is more then probable disruptions will be incurred by all airlines on that date and within those times. Management at Aer Lingus now requesting a second meeting with SIPTU officials to revert this possible IR dispute, DAA will follow.

[stab3.5up]

Like all Aer Lingus stikes it will all be called of 48hrs before. They never go on strike. All talk and no trousers

[840]

Normally, I'd agree, but the DAA strike throws a spanner in the works. Even if EI management come to an agreement, there may still be no aircraft flying at that time.

[stab3.5up]

The DAA will be the same. All talk and no strike. The Irish love nothing more than talking about going out on stike or as they say at DUB going down to the roundabout when it comes to ah sure now lads it pishing down outside are yah sure bout this. Ah well now pat when you put it like that maybe theressomthin in what them lads are offering sure why dont go see what they got to say and we can get a brekfast roll on the there

[jonjoe]

guess its not your pension on the line then……………..

[EI-BUD]

It's gas talking about strikes and Dublin Airport. I recall in 1998 when FR baggage handlers went on strike and the whole place went with them, but ironically the only flights taking off were, yes you guess it, Ryanair's!!!!

[EI-A330-300]

guess its not your pension on the line then……………..However much the 4 hour stoppage costs Aer Lingus is coming out of the pensions anyway so its the staff losing money for themselves.

[airbourne]

I have 3 EI flights coming up over the next 4 months.

I checked the flights today. 2 of them were more expensive and 1 was the same price. These were supposedly SALE flights!

[Jamie2k9]

No such things as sales, it's just effective marking. EI are no different to other airlines. They all have x seats to fill and y operating costs.

All airlines raise prices and drop them back for a sale or they match their competitors prices.

[Jack1985]

However much the 4 hour stoppage costs Aer Lingus is coming out of the pensions anyway so its the staff losing money for themselves

What kind of a statement is that? So basically you're saying staff should roll over and let themselves be screwed by a pension fund? They signed up to x and x can no longer be delivered through no fault of there own - They are fully right to request better and an IR dispute is the only way of getting both managements to sort it out - As it will be, before any planned strike goes ahead.

[EI-A330-300]

What kind of a statement is that? So basically you're saying staff should roll over and let themselves be screwed by a pension fund? They signed up to x and x can no longer be delivered through no fault of there own - They are fully right to request better and an IR dispute is the only way of getting both managements to sort it out - As it will be, before any planned strike goes ahead.

And it's not the airlines fault either who don't have to give a penny but are giving 140 million.

SIPTU are forcing similar cuts to their members but won't on DAA/EI staff, will they be supportive of their own strike, will the fund some of the hole in their pension. It's double standards by the union.

I agree it will be sorted out but going on strike is just as damaging to staff as the airline and doesn't achieve anything.

[Jack1985]

And it's not the airlines fault either who don't have to give a penny but are giving 140 million.

SIPTU are forcing similar cuts to their members but won't on DAA/EI staff, will they be supportive of their own strike, will the fund some of the hole in their pension. It's double standards by the union.

I agree it will be sorted out but going on strike is just as damaging to staff as the airline and doesn't achieve anything.

The trustees who oversee the Irish Airlines Superannuation Scheme (IASS) represent the pension funders (Aer Lingus/DAA) and they thus failed, however both funding parties did nothing about the growing deficit, in 2007 Aer Lingus poured plus 100m into it and were back to square one, the DAA has a lot more to contribute, Aer Lingus also do but in a lesser extent to the DAA. The fact both funding parties allowed the deficit to grow is in employees view, stunning - at the same time they were both trying to cut costs and allowing a white elephant to grow. Not there fault what planet are you living on?

Whatever about the union, the employees they represent for EI/DAA are focused on there issue - regardless of the given double standard.

Strikes are damaging, but the only way for both management to get of there asses and sort this out. The contrary which is to supposedly continue mitigation has failed repeatedly, and time and time and time again. ALL have tried this for months on end with NO result! Enough is enough, they have to act now.

[Una Due Tfc]

The fault lies far more with the DAA, and if we are being specific, the old AER RIANTA. And former SR TECHNICS/TEAM AER LINGUS staff are in that scheme too

[bannercounty]

Why not go back to Jim Larkin :)

[Angry Rebel]

Jack you are wrong on that last one. The trustees are 100% independent and are responsible only to the scheme members. Under trust law the trustees must act in the best interest of the beneficiaries. In fact if you ask many in DAA/EI management about the trustees you will get a rant so don't pretend the are employer puppets!

http://www.pensionsboard.ie/en/LifeCycle/Information_Booklets/So_you%E2%80%99re_a_pensions_scheme_trustee.7239.shortcut.pd f

In addition, when people bladder on about solutions, don't forget that there have been 3/4 different proposals over the last 3 years and none have been taken up. Management and trustees have both tried to find a solution but members/unions did not take up the offers. One of the solutions would have actually fixed the whole problem but the speed of (in)action was such that the market opportunity passed (don't forget a lot of this is due to changes in markets in the form of falling interest rates and investment returns not something the members or employers are doing differently or failing to do).

One issue not all that prominent in all of this has been the potential disconnect between the unions and the members. On this occasion members have voted and you can't argue with that, but at various points over the last few years the unions have definitely NOT acted in their members best interest. Those chickens have yet to come home to roost.

[Jack1985]

Quick question who funds the pension?

[Sober Lark]

The pension is a big mistake which is compounded by those who think an opportunity for deficit reduction is a strike.

[ayroplain]

One issue not all that prominent in all of this has been the potential disconnect between the unions and the members. On this occasion members have voted and you can't argue with that, but at various points over the last few years the unions have definitely NOT acted in their members best interest. Those chickens have yet to come home to roost
Not sure whether this was in relation to Aer Lingus or DAA but I read somewhere recently that the staff themselves don't really want to strike but, when the ballot was set, there was no choice on the ballot paper to NOT strike, only a choice between two forms of industrial action up to strike. Anyone know enough to confirm or deny?

I also recall reading that EI:

1. was of the opinion that this dispute was technically not a "trade dispute" and would be looking into seeking an injunction to stop a strike taking place. I wonder if they'll go down that road.

2. are not legally bound to make any further contribution

I'm surprised, too, that, given the seriousness of this situation which could escalate quickly, the Transport Minister has not done anything - or maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

[Angry Rebel]

Quick question who funds the pension?

You know the answer but I'll play along. It's the same people who fund it in nearly every pension scheme in the world...the employers and the employees. That doesn't create some sort of nefarious conspiracy, it's how pensions work.

@ayroplain - yes EI have had multiple legal opinions to the effect that it's a DC not DB scheme and they are not obliged to put anymore into it. Unfortunately the unions have conflicting advice. Gotta love the lawyers eh?! In a way that is the nub of the issue: EI have legal advice saying you don't owe anything, so if they put money into the scheme shareholders have a legitimate grievance that "their" money is being put into something which doesn't directly improve shareholder returns. That is presumably why management feel they can delivery €140m but no more.

[Jack1985]

employers and the employees

Both employer's allowed white elephant to grow despite knowing since the early 2000's of the growing deficit.

who bears responsibility? I'll play along too.

[Jack1985]

Aer Lingus has issued an interim alert to all staff which informs that the company will be stopping productivity payments next month unless the strike is called off.

I'm sorry but we are constantly reminded by Aer Lingus' PR teams how good employees are, how caring they are and even the motto Great Care. Great Fare, when you treat employee's like this don't expect compromise - and people have said on this forum strikes achieve nothing, what do you say to same company treating there staff like this? Talk about ramping up tensions.

[racedo]

It is expected that the net proceeds of the Offer received by the Comany will be used primarily to finance the expansion and replacement of Aer Lingusí short-haul and long-haul fleet. A one-off pension contribution in 2006 of up to approximately €104 million is also expected to be made by the Company.

The above quote is taken from IPO prospectus dated 12/09/2006 issued by Aer Lingus and its a legal document that persuaded Initial Investors to invest.
Any who still hold Initial shares are free to take an action based on investing where management did not full disclose a future pension liability.

The IPO raised approximately €501 Million Gross.

Now adding in the €140 M to the €104 M already given plus whatever is agreed with Pilots Union basically will mean that Aer Lingus will have contributed 50% of the IPO proceeds to the Pension fund.

Any pension fund contribution will need to be approved by shareholders which is where it could get complicated very quickly.

As Irish Govt hold 25% and tend not to vote then 38% of total shareholders may scupper the deal.

The question Shareholders will ask is what are we getting by giving away €140M owned by us, because it is owned by them and they may feel that given that away is not benefitting them at all.

[Copenhagen]

The unions in DAA are a joke, and have been toothless since the Lowrey days when the government and company neutered them through the process called compact.

[Epsomdog]

This whole pension fiasco has to come to a head sometime!

It has come about as a result of mismanagement by a number of party's.

1. The Irish government.
2. The pension trustees.
3. The companies involved (EI,DAA etc).
4. The Unions involved (including the staff).

It seems the only way forward is for ALL party's to take a fair share of the pain!

It is unreasonable for the only sufferers to be the future and present pensioners!

The government seems to be sitting on its hands at the moment, as for the trustees! I'm sure they've made sure their pensions are ok!

[Sober Lark]

Where else would you get such a terrific pension of at least 66% of final pay for those earning €60k and above and 89% for those earning under €30k? For the vast majority of people working in any other industry and trying to fund for their own retirement out of income such figures are unimaginable in fact they are phenomenal and bordering on absurd. Sorry, but don't you appreciate how very fortunate you are?

[Epsomdog]

at least 66% of final pay for those earning €60k and above and 89% for those earning under €30k?

If those figures were correct then I might agree with you!

Yes it was a good pension, there's nothing wrong with that being the case.

My point is that it's not fair that people employed for 35 years plus, that have based all their financial planning on what they believed was a rock solid entitlement, should now be told they're not going to recieve as much. At that stage it is too late to make other provisions!

I accept that when things go wrong then there will be a degree of "pain". My view is that should be shared equitably amongst ALL parties!

[Jack1985]

My point is that it's not fair that people employed for 35 years plus, that have based all their financial planning on what they believed was a rock solid entitlement, should now be told they're not going to recieve as much. At that stage it is too late to make other provisions!

Well said.

[EI-A330-300]

A joint government-ICTU-Ibec expert panel to look at the issue, SIPTU asked to defer action howver they currently have "no plans" to do so.

[Cyrano]

A joint government-ICTU-Ibec expert panel to look at the issue, SIPTU asked to defer action howver they currently have "no plans" to do so.

Give them a day or two and they may suddenly discover an ability to rethink their plans...:hmm:

[EI-A330-300]

EY increase their stake in EI from 2.987% to 3.01%

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/investorrelations/regulatorynews/2014pressreleases/ETIHADTR-1-3March2014FINAL.pdf

[racedo]

EY increase their stake in EI from 2.987% to 3.01%


Really makes no difference as can never take it over and even getting to 49% and having others support it would fall fowl of law.

[EI-A330-300]

Really makes no difference as can never take it over and even getting to 49% and having others support it would fall fowl of law. Well aware of the law, just pointing it out.

Anyway here is the damage on 14 March.

30 cancelled flights.
42 rescheduled flights.

Not to mention the lease in costs and costs of giving passengers to other airlines to.


4.30 tomorrow the a decision expected on Ryanair's appeal.

[racedo]

4.30 tomorrow the a decision expected on Ryanair's appeal.

You mean LATEST decision as still many lawyers who need their holidays to be paid for.

[EI-A330-300]

You're probably right however I feel MOlL is slowly coming around to the idea that it won't happen at all and once these last few appeals runs their course it will come to an end and sooner he will sell up. If that doesn't happen the Ryanair board will get sick of MOL and tell him sell up like they told him stop treating customers like ****.

[Jack1985]

If that doesn't happen the Ryanair board will get sick of MOL and tell him sell up like they told him stop treating customers like ****.

You got it in one, board is already dismayed with the shareholding - In the words of Cawley, ''Ryanair's single worst decision''.

[Sober Lark]

These types of pension schemes may provide very favourable benefits but there is nothing in legislation preventing increased taxation on these benefits during drawdown.

[DollarBill]

To my mind the early cancellation/rescheduling of the EI flights on 14th is a sign that they are unwilling to talk to SIPTU in order to avert this disruption.

Someone asked earlier about who funds the pension....the answer is employees and employers. No smoke and mirrors there.
However in the case of the IASS the problem has been known about for many years, but EI still make their staff pay into this fund. Most of the staff just want to stop throwing money into an empty pit. But their contract with EI stipulates that they must pay into the IASS. This is why the staff are unhappy with EI (I'm not sure if the same holds for the DAA staff)

The unions/mgmt actually agreed a proposal a year ago but was it was delayed by the trustee's. Since that time the situation has worsened so the unions are asking for an extra E50M between both companies to plug the gap to enable employees to get most of their entitlement and then be able to start paying into a new pension for each company. (BTW EI has over 1 Billion Euro in new cash reserves, with less than E350M of that ringfenced for aircraft leasing and purchases)
Meanwhile every month every member of the pension is getting deducted salary that they may never see again.


On the issue of the statement by EI of with-holding 'productivity payments'.....these payments are a once off bonus (less than E6.5m for 2014) given to staff in return for the E97m yearly savings generated as part of the Greenfield plan. So EI refusing to honour their own agreement shows the lack of integrity that prevails among EI senior mgmt.

Personally I do not feel this work stoppage will aid the workers, the deficit will still be there and it will only antagonise the travelling public. However looking at public statements I feel that EI senior Mgmt do not really want to avert this action. I recognise that extra payments are not seen as viable by the EI CEO or the DAA mgmt. But if I was a CEO with 1 Billion in the bank...and I was told I could give E50M to be finally rid of this pension issue (coupled with a pay freeze for 3 years) I would be jumping at that chance.

[racedo]

You're probably right however I feel MOlL is slowly coming around to the idea that it won't happen at all and once these last few appeals runs their course it will come to an end and sooner he will sell up.

Guys
Ryanair have stated on a number of occasions they are more than happy to sell to anybody who comes in with an offer.
That was said approx 2 years ago and yet no offers received.......that in itself tells a story, a very limited number of buyers.

It will not be from a non EU airline as they cannot hold that % of shares........
max they can hold is 49.9%
BUT if they bought FRs holding under Stock Exchange rules they are required to make an offer for whole company which they physically could not do.
One negates the other and Stock Exchange would not change rules for what would be a very minor takeover.

As for being worst decision think you need to put it into the context when that was stated.
Worst decision BUT not a wrong decision............that was what David Bonderman was stating.

Board agreed to make that decision not a single person and despite what people like to assume that what M'OL says goes I don't think any of the board members are Yes people.
Doubt David Bonderman would have enjoyed the success he has in life if he peopled boards with Yes men.

[racedo]

But if I was a CEO with 1 Billion in the bank...and I was told I could give E50M to be finally rid of this pension issue (coupled with a pay freeze for 3 years) I would be jumping at that chance.

They are scheduled to give €140 million minimum NOT €50 million and that doesn't include pilots scheme. They gave €104 million on float as I have already shown.

CEO cannot give any money without shareholder approval as ultimately it is their company not Managements or Employers.

The €97 saving is a smokescreen as many staff who left and returned to generate that saving were paid handsomely for doing so and also got their tax liability to the Irish Govt paid for by Aer Lingus.

[j636]

So the UK have dismissed Ryanair appeal however Ryanair are now appealing to the court of appeal in UK.

[Hangar6]

If only Ducksie could give all his legal fees wasted on rich lawyers to the pension fund, his EI shares would double in value and his worst business decision would come good. The lawyers are making a killing here on all sides, what a waste

[DollarBill]

Racedo.... I didn't mean to give the impression that it was only E50M. I should have been more clear. That figure is the extra that the unions are looking for from both company's. This would be on top of the LRC solution of 140m total from EI. So perhaps E30M of EI cash (subject of course to shareholder approval)

The EI pilots pension fund is a separate body and EI have no liability for that.

The E97M figure is NOT a smoke screen. It was delivered under the 2010-2012 Greenfield plan. The "leave and return" scheme that you refer to was part of the 2007 plan under that useless CEO Dermot Mannion that appeared to save money but didnt in reality.

And on that note it was under the CEO-ship of Mannion that the statement about the "once off payment E104M to end liability" was made. At that point the IASS fund was in the black. EI should have addressed the issue then when it was the 'boom years' and gotten themselves away from it.
Mueller apparently was pretty peeved to discover that EI never actually ended their liability at this time. So yes EI Execs from 2006 did give untrue statements to prospective investors. (as well as playing hard a fast with tax liabilites as regards lump sum payments)


Looking back it is a shame that EI did not get Mueller onboard in 2005-2006, instead they got a bungling CEO who made what appears to be huge mistakes and losses for EI.

[racedo]

And on that note it was under the CEO-ship of Mannion that the statement about the "once off payment E104M to end liability" was made. At that point the IASS fund was in the black. EI should have addressed the issue then when it was the 'boom years' and gotten themselves away from it.

A shareholder who invested in the original IPO (and still holds shares) would have a pretty solid case that Aer Lingus misled them in prospectus in relation to that one off and could block any further funds going in or have damages.

[curser]

Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!

[Jack1985]

Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[racedo]

Nonsense! An investor might take a case to test in court but that would cost a fortune with no garentee whatsoever of return, admittedly they could then appeal that ruling...oh I see your stratagem now...genius!

Er No

IPO prospectus gave certain assurances to potential investors regarding the way Investment proceeds received would be for benefit of the company and that the €104 Million to pension fund was a complete one-off.

Now some years later the Investor finds that the guarantees given were not worth anything and were misleading or plainly false.

Investor can claim that he/she/it was persuaded to invest under false statements given in prospectus.

A shareholder would stand a reasonable chance of winning and solicitor on a no win/no fee basis would take it on.

Has happened before and no doubt will happen again.

[EISNN]

IPO prospectus gave certain assurances to potential investors regarding the way Investment proceeds received would be for benefit of the company and that the €104 Million to pension fund was a complete one-off.

Now some years later the Investor finds that the guarantees given were not worth anything and were misleading or plainly false.

Investor can claim that he/she/it was persuaded to invest under false statements given in prospectus.

A shareholder would stand a reasonable chance of winning and solicitor on a no win/no fee basis would take it on.

Has happened before and no doubt will happen again.

Those EXACT same guarantees/promises were given to the staff ( ESOP & ESOT). who were 12.5% shareholders at the time of flotation. So can they take the company to task over those same made promises/guarantees/assurances?

[curser]

Well get on with it then racedo ol'boy. Talks cheap.
Riddle me this: can you think of another Irish airline that recently wound up its own defined benifit scheme also in deficit and spent $HAREHOLDER$ money to clear it's liability?
No win no fee, oh yeah they'll just be lining up in great recedo vs reality episode of judge judy.
Judicial review and mandate is a very expensive way of determining ones course of action and exposes a lack of common sense.
Honestly racedo you are almost always wrong, your conclusions worthy of fox news. I gotta tell you I got nottin but luv for u, but why not sit one out nostradamus?

[Una Due Tfc]

Are the newer staff paying in to the same old fund but getting less returns when they retire or was a separate scheme set up for them? One would hope it was the latter

[racedo]

Those EXACT same guarantees/promises were given to the staff ( ESOP & ESOT). who were 12.5% shareholders at the time of flotation. So can they take the company to task over those same made promises/guarantees/assurances?

Of course as they invested on basis of IPO prospectus..........

[racedo]

Well get on with it then racedo ol'boy. Talks cheap.

Not an investor into Aer Lingus as not that stupid, having read the prospectus I didn't see where its long term future was..........still not evident.

Giving the staff 12.5% I could understand but giving €104 M to pension fund where no legal guarantee from Pension fund that it was final was always weak and a risk.
Looks like keeping money in bank was a good idea.

As for being wrong well said its base expansion was a mistake when everybody here claiming it would be best thing since sliced bread and Easyjet should be worrying .........how is it doing again ?

Notice you not addressing how having got 12.5% of Company, €104M of proceeds of IPO and now potentially another €140 million that somehow Aer Lingus is being unfair to its employees.
50% of its IPO proceeds paying off the Pension fund V EI future.
At what point in time is it correct to stop putting money into a black hole.

[Jack1985]

Are the newer staff paying in to the same old fund but getting less returns when they retire or was a separate scheme set up for them? One would hope it was the latter

Unfortunately not.

[Faire d'income]

@Racedo As I am sure you are aware, any proposed contribution will be put to the shareholders for approval first.

[racedo]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/459473-aer-lingus-6-a-106.html#post8345175

As I am sure you are aware, any proposed contribution will be put to the shareholders for approval first.

Yup as posted the detail above......

The WTF happens if shareholders don't approve........not even going to go there

[j636]

Aer Lingus have launched "bid to upgrade" on T/A service. Passengers who booked in Y can make an offer to upgrade to J on a flight and if there is availability and EI accept the offer they will give the upgrade to J.

Seems like a good way of filling J when its not full and taking extra revenue.

Stephen Kavanagh did a interview with anna.aero.

RTP for up to 40 short haul aircraft within 18 months. (will include 752 replacements)

They are looking at Florida and possibly another gateway on east coast in 2015.

30 second interview: Aer Lingus CCO, Stephen Kavanagh (http://www.anna.aero/2014/03/13/30-second-interview-aer-lingus-chief-commercial-officer-stephen-kavanagh/)

[Una Due Tfc]

The unmentionable airline do the same thing apparently, sounds like a win-win.

[EI-A330-300]

Aer Lingus sues SIPTU for damages - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0314/602264-aer-lingus-sues-siptu-for-damages/)


Think they have a pretty good case!

[Una Due Tfc]

They have SIPTU over a barrel here, "back down on your pension demands and this all goes away, otherwise....." If I were a EI/DAA member of SIPTU I would be furious that they have allowed themselves be snookered like this.

[racedo]

Aer Lingus sues SIPTU for damages - RTÉ News (http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=1e857e7500cdd32403f752206c297a3d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fairlines-airports-routes%2F459473-aer-lingus-6-a-107.html&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2014%2F0314%2F602264-aer-lingus-sues-siptu-for-damages%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fairlines-airports-routes%2F459473-aer-lingus-6-a-108.html)


Think they have a pretty good case!

Any damages go to Pension fund :E

[Jack1985]

Any damages go to Pension fund

They lack the brain-power there I'm afraid, more likely into the pockets of top brass.

If I were a EI/DAA member of SIPTU I would be furious that they have allowed themselves be snookered like this.

We are, not only do we have management who lack basic common sense, we have an inept union now who will no doubt lose this case and we end up again the losers in all this.

[ayroplain]

we have an inept union now who will no doubt lose this case and we end up again the losers in all this.
The union members (staff) had a golden opportunity here to bring the union headbangers to their senses. When the expert group was set up the strike should have been called off. Instead, all reason went out the window, the union not only decided otherwise but also indicated that they were meeting to consider what the next strike action would amount to. They were not doing this for the good of the staff, they were doing it to show off that they still had the power. The staff should have seen through that and acted accordingly. Instead they allowed themselves to be led further into the mire.

You think that's pie-in-the-sky? I know two instances where this occurred including in a very large company I once worked for. Strike was called but prior to its implementation there were developments and we told the union we should postpone it. The (upstart) union leader refused, said we can teach them a lesson. We then decided to call it off ourselves and things were sorted. The union headbanger resigned and good riddance. Every reasonable worker in EI and the DAA must have known in their hearts that the strike should have been called off but didn't have the guts to go against their headbangers. By not doing so they allowed their own company (in the case of EI) to incur huge financial losses and loss of reputation. I hope that some sort of agreement is reached but the staff should really start to think for themselves instead of blindly following people who have clearly demonstrated that they only have their own interests at heart.

[Angry Rebel]

They lack the brain-power there I'm afraid, more likely into the pockets of top brass.

How would that work exactly?

[j636]

Notice Etihad have taken another % in EI to take it to 4.1%. One wonders how much they will increase it by?

[lfc84]

Does anyone have a rough idea when W14/15 will go on sale. Specifically IOM-DUB November 14.

[Jack1985]

How would that work exactly?

Well it's being working exactly like that for few years now, pay increases and performance boosts e.g. CEO.

[ib26uk]

Lfc84

They are out now as I`ve booked a few flights to and from Ireland late November 2014

EDIT - Just noticed that IOM-DUB is not yet for sale - sorry

[Angry Rebel]

Well it's being working exactly like that for few years now, pay increases and performance boosts e.g. CEO.

Riiiggght.....pretty lazy original statement and vague justification.

Basic pay and pension contributions for both Executive Directors (Macfarlane and Mueller) has been unchanged since they were appointed. Total pay for Mueller was €1,132k, €1,244k and €1,293k in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Large amounts of money I agree, but the increase is driven by performance related bonus. Those are driven by metrics relating to shareholder value and individual performance - check the annual report for details. The share price this time 3 years ago in March 2011 was €0.75 - the share price today is €1.68 - would you complain about that? None of those increases would be driven by things like compensation achieved in court cases and suggesting otherwise is just dopey. I'm no fanboy or apologist for management but I'm not a fan of facts being treated as an obstacle to a good story.

[Jack1985]

Riiiggght.....pretty lazy original statement and vague justification.

Gimmie five, ill post pay scales of all the top brass, errrmmm pretty lazy, more like carrying common sense.

would you complain about that?

Not at all!

[Angry Rebel]

Your 5 minutes is up! :)

[racedo]

Jack

Simple Q on pensions re EI.

If Ryanair proposal had looked likely to suceed do you believe they would have helped fund pension deficit or would proposals that indicated a willingness to help fund it at bid stage have altered viewpoints ?

[Jack1985]

Your 5 minutes is up!

;)

If Ryanair proposal had looked likely to suceed do you believe they would have helped fund pension deficit or would proposals that indicated a willingness to help fund it at bid stage have altered viewpoints ?

Have no idea I'm afraid, but I'm pretty sure of one thing Ryanair would have had it wrapped in the bag in about a few months - The simplest thing that needs to happen is the pension scheme is shut, those who are still investing are given say 2/3 of their investment back (yes I'm willing to be done further so to speak! :(), those who are retired get their pensions - And, for example Aer Lingus if it seeks to then set's up a realistic new scheme which is funded as it actually needs to be.

The screw up that happened is primarily the fault of the the now defunct Aer Rianta, people talk about the pension's of those retired since '08 who in the majority of cases are yet to get there pensions, I think they'd all collapse if they new about the pensions in the early 2000's and before! Simple thing is IASS should have been wound-up or dealt with in the late 80's, how we're now in 2014 still with a growing deficit is beyond words frankly.

Again back to what Ryanair would have done, my opinion on them and Aer Lingus will never change, they never will get EI and that's case closed for starters but there management probably if been allowed to deal with IASS would have sorted it out in months again because they have the determination and balls to stand up to just do it as they showed from their own DB scheme which they closed at the start of 2014 and I'm sure they would have done it without leaving people high and dry as they did in their own when setting up the new DC Scheme. Again Aer Lingus and the DAA can do the same but there's a lack of determination to deal with it, and frankly its on all sides at the moment.

[racedo]

Again back to what Ryanair would have done, my opinion on them and Aer Lingus will never change, they never will get EI and that's case closed for starters but there management probably if been allowed to deal with IASS would have sorted it out in months again because they have the determination and balls to stand up to just do it as they showed from their own DB scheme which they closed at the start of 2014 and I'm sure they would have done it without leaving people high and dry as they did in their own when setting up the new DC Scheme.

Not asking your opinion on them as figured it wouldn't move.;)

Think what you said in terms of not leaving people high and dry and a new scheme would probably have happened..................in their interest to have done it right and probably got rid of SIPTU at same time.

[Jack1985]

Not asking your opinion on them as figured it wouldn't move.

Think what you said in terms of not leaving people high and dry and a new scheme would probably have happened..................in their interest to have done it right and probably got rid of SIPTU at same time.

Ha, sorry if I disappointed!

To be fair, only based that on the winding down of DB and opening up of the DC schemes, and yes your point holds a lot of merit.

You know a lot about FR so any idea as to whom those 120+ now DC pension holders are? I would assume those who retired with the deals they got in the Tony Ryan days (before '95)?

[racedo]

Ha, sorry if I disappointed!


Nope...........would have been disappointed if it had changed



You know a lot about FR so any idea as to whom those 120+ now DC pension holders are? I would assume those who retired with the deals they got in the Tony Ryan days (before '95)?

No idea

[EI-A330-300]

Looks like Etihad may of being busy increasing their shares in EI for the third time in as many days.


Now rumoured to own around 5%, we might find out tomorrow.


Etihad spends millions buying 5% stake in Aer Lingus - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/etihad-spends-millions-buying-5-stake-in-aer-lingus-30116395.html)

[m36mike]

EI-LBR is about 10mins out from SNN after getting its full livery done in Maastricht.

[jimmynes]

EI-LBR | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28534844@N03/13428651184)

[niamhwalsh]

Hello there! I'm Niamh and I really need help! My parents are both from Sligo so ever since I was little I've flown with Aer Lingus when I went back in the summer. I've always wanted to be a flight attendant. But I just don't know where to start! I need help and advice. I looked on the website at the qualifications and I have the 2 years of work experience from waitressing at a restaurant and I have an Irish passport. The only thing I don't have is the age.. I'm 18 right now and the requirement is at least 19. I don't mind waiting I just want advice on where to go what to do and how to prepare so that I can possibly apply next year. Also just a side note, I'm from Chicago and I live about 20 minutes away from O'Hare. Any words of wisdom would be really helpful! Thank you! :)

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hello Niamh,

If you click on the full list of PPRuNe forums in the dropdown menu, you will find that one of the forums is called "Cabin Crew Wannabes". You may find some helpful general advice in there (although I haven't read it through to check). Also, if you repeat your question over there it may be read by a number of additional people who are in a position to give you some useful advice. Best of luck with your career choice!

[j636]

Pilots will soon be using ipads instead of in flight paper work. 500 ipads ordered and expected to cut 98% of printing currently required.

Aer Lingus pilots to use iPads instead of in-flight paperwork - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/aer-lingus-pilots-to-use-ipads-instead-of-inflight-paperwork-30193089.html)

[Jack1985]

Already in the process of being fitted since Jan. :)

[Just a spotter]

Aer Lingus Q1 '14 results are out.

Aer Lingus has reported an operating loss of €48.5m in the first three months of the year, an increase of 6.6% on the same time last year. The airline said the loss was down to a later Easter and the negative effect of threatened industrial action on booking volumes in March. The first quarter is seasonally loss making for the airline.
Reporting from RTÉ, 1st May 2014


Aer Lingus reports deeper first quarter losses - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0501/614169-aer-lingus-results/)


JAS

[Jack1985]

Broadly in-line with what was predicted, would expect 2014 to slightly edge above FY13 results.

[EI-A330-300]

They also said a 757 or 330 may be added to the fleet next summer.

[racedo]

Is progress really been made ? or are management engaged in management speak ?

[Jack1985]

Is progress really been made ? or are management engaged in management speak ?


It is, there will be a more positive reflection of this from Q2 through Q4 when CORE comes online, but as with most airlines in Europe in Q1 annual seasonal loss in this quarter is exacerbated by a late Easter and include In that the strike costs in mid-March. There are more job losses unfortunately this year which through CORE seeks to protect margins, profitability and market share.

[airbourne]

For Summer '14, #AerLingus will hire in Air Asia Airbus A320 (9M-AHH). It is expected to be in Air Asia livery with Aer Lingus titles.

Found this on twitter by Michael Kelly.

Same aircraft:

ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A320-216 9M-AHH Kuching Airport (KCH) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110110-0)

[racedo]

Its funny that it was Ryanair's shareholding that voted for the CEO's pay policy as otherwise it would have failed.

Mueller wins pay battle as Ryanair backs Aer Lingus CEO - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mueller-wins-pay-battle-as-ryanair-backs-aer-lingus-ceo-30240443.html)

So will this end the sniping from some of the Aer Lingus board that Ryanairs shareholding is negative for the business as clearly this would have been a resounding slap in the face without FR's support ?

[Jack1985]

So will this end the sniping from some of the Aer Lingus board that Ryanairs shareholding is negative for the business as clearly this would have been a resounding slap in the face without FR's support ?

No, clearly not ha. This is Ryanair telling Mueller he's done a good job and giving two fingers to union leaders and the Gov. I like the last part.

[EI-A330-300]

No, clearly not ha. This is Ryanair telling Mueller he's done a good job and giving two fingers to union leaders and the Gov. I like the last part.

Indeed Ryanair did it irritate the unions while the Government rejected it because there is a an election coming up and the unions wrote to them.

[Una Due Tfc]

So if they do get another long hauler next year, where would they send it?

757 would be limited enough, the only reason most people go to PHL or CLT is for connections so couldn't see them taking on the new AA on those. A return to Dulles could well happen I suppose. Maybe YUL?

If they got a 330 you could be talking anywhere in North America. A return to LAX may be feasible depending on how it would effect SFO. Could see them sending it to YYZ and sending the free 757 to IAD

[Jack1985]

With the good loads on DUB-YYZ it looks like an extra A330 is required for that route next Summer, the 757 is then freed up from DUB for either expansion or increased frequency on the east coast. There will more than likely be also a new A330 destination in FL either Ft. Lauderdale or Miami.

[Una Due Tfc]

Are the first 4 A350s due in 2015? They may have cause to hold on to a few 330s when they have all 9 350s, the newest 3 330s arrived in 2008 IIRC? So they would be roughly ten years old when all the 350s are here. LAX is 15 years old now (and showing it from what I hear)

[EI-A330-300]

Are the first 4 A350s due in 2015? They may have cause to hold on to a few 330s when they have all 9 350s, the newest 3 330s arrived in 2008 IIRC? So they would be roughly ten years old when all the 350s are here. LAX is 15 years old now (and showing it from what I hear) They have being delayed and the first will be in 2018 with all 9 in service by 2020.

There will more than likely be also a new A330 destination in FL either Ft. Lauderdale or Miami. Personally hope for Ft. Lauderdale over Miami.

[Una Due Tfc]

Thanks EI

Shame that, looks like they'll need the extra capacity sooner than they thought. Will just have to lease a couple of extra 330s for 3 years perhaps.

Better to have too few seats than too many.

U.S. Pre clearance has been a god send for DUB and SNN

[EI-A330-300]

Thanks EI

Shame that, looks like they'll need the extra capacity sooner than they thought. Will just have to lease a couple of extra 330s for 3 years perhaps.

Better to have too few seats than too many.

U.S. Pre clearance has been a god send for DUB and SNN

Don't agree about US Pre Clearance, yes it's good facility but EI don't market it when selling flights because they can't guarantee it will be available for all flights as the US could reduce it at any time.

The expanded facility at DUB is major improvement to the experience and the increased staffing is great for passengers.

I think what wins for EI is the fast transit times and ease of transfers while there product is reasonably good as is the price.

[Una Due Tfc]

I was referring more towards being good for the airports overall rather than individual carriers. I agree that not being able to advertise is a major hindrance

[VickersVicount]

FLL would be great over MIA, but there isnt a hope in... they'll not go to MIA.
The lure for potential pax, connections, facilities, partners etc is too great

[Jamie2k9]

FLL would be great over MIA, but there isnt a hope in... they'll not go to MIA.
The lure for potential pax, connections, facilities, partners etc is too great Disagree as JetBlue have a hub at FLL to South American/Caribbean and I don't see MIA unless AA agree to code share something I'm not will happen.

Having being to both airports MIA is by far a worse airport but FLL wouldn't be much better.

Both cities are only around 20 miles apart.

[Una Due Tfc]

The biggest problem with MIA is queues for immigration and customs (same problem in LAX in my experience). Obviously DUB flights wouldn't have to do this, which would make it far more palatable. I'm surprised AA aren't running a DUB-MIA service, although they did stop their Manchester flight fairly recently.

[EI-A330-300]

CEO prefers daily flights instead of weekly...


Aer Lingus considers daily flights on relaunched San Francisco service - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-considers-daily-flights-on-relaunched-san-francisco-service-30246045.html)

[Cyrano]

CEO prefers daily flights instead of weekly...


Aer Lingus considers daily flights on relaunched San Francisco service - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-considers-daily-flights-on-relaunched-san-francisco-service-30246045.html)

In fairness, what's he's actually saying is that (if demand grows enough) he prefers daily flights rather than 5 per week. That's reasonable enough.

[Jack1985]

Strategy is that allowing daily connection to SFO broadens passenger demand for the route, wise statement.

[840]

Aer Lingus is now using three leased 757s as "pathfinders" on routes from Dublin to Toronto, and from Shannon to Boston and New York

I can understand it being a pathfinder to Toronto, but surely demand to Shannon is known at this point.

[Cian]

I can understand it being a pathfinder to Toronto, but surely demand to Shannon is known at this point.


More demand for a daily service than a 3x weekly; issue is knowing how much more.

[EI-A330-300]

Another few months on and another strike problem and SIPTU and the pension problems are not the problem. IMPACT (the largest cabin crew union) are threating to strike over rosters and SFO flights seem to be at the heard of the problem while last summers crewing problems are to.

Will Leo V put a stop to it
Varadkar said it seems to be the case that “someone in Aer Lingus” threatens strike action every three months yet never follows through, saying that people are “pretty sick” of this.

“I really think we should have an end to this old-fashioned trade union activity of threatening strikes over problems. Issues over rosters, which is what this is about, should be dealt with by negotiation and not megaphone diplomacy.
:

Varadkar: I am pretty sick of Aer Lingus workers threatening to go on strike (http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-cabin-crew-strike-action-1451644-May2014/)

[Noxegon]

He's got a fair point with that one. Seriously, how many times have Aer Lingus had a threatened strike in the last few years?

[racedo]

Leo the tame pussy cat could have had his Govt sort it out years ago but played to Union support of his coalition partners.

[alserire]

Is virtually every year. In June. When I go on holidays. At least once (maybe three years ago) I badgered them into letting me change my flight to the day before the planned strike (Tuesday to a Monday). This was the Saturday before. Think the strike was called off on a Sunday but that wasn't any help as it was getting to close to my travel date and I had to travel.


I'm near to done with them. I've two flights in June and July and if either fall through then I'll be using Lufthansa to connect in Europe and US carriers for North America. It's a total joke at this stage.

[MarkD]

How are Toronto service loads and yields going? Is there any possibility of it going year round? The expat community have great direct choice ex YYZ in the summer now with AC/TS/WS/EI but still doomed to LHR/AMS/US routings in winter with every connection increasing the chances of bag loss.

Edit: am seeing Nov dates in the engine. Is it year round already then?

[Una Due Tfc]

I think it's 4x weekly in the winter

[Cyrano]

I think it's 4x weekly in the winter

Yes, it seems to be 4x weekly (Mon Wed Fri Sun) until early January, then according to the online timetable it switches to 3x weekly (Tues Thurs Sat) until the start of the summer season when it goes daily again.

The switching round of operating days seems a bit odd if EI is trying to develop the route for any kind of business traffic - maybe they see it as essentially a leisure route?

Does anyone know whether there is any plan to do anything else with the aircraft on the "off" days (e.g. replace an A330 with it to JFK/BOS) or is it just parked up?

Edited to add:
I've just seen that EI109, the later of the two DUB-JFK flights, switches from daily to Mon-Wed-Fri-Sun for the same period (Jan-Mar) that Toronto switches to Tues-Thurs-Sat. So I am guessing that EI is taking one A330 out of service for that period (heavy maintenance? wetlease work?) and using the 757 to replace it on DUB-JFK.

[EI-A330-300]

The 330 will be taken out of service for Business class upgrades over the winter starting with 332 while one 332 will be operated Novair. Early new year 332 would be in heavy use so with SFO operating this winter it explains the 757 going to JFK. I also believe SNN-JFK will continue with a winter break.

[MarkD]

Thanks folks - I missed the EI website blurb first time round. Big deal for us expats.

[EI-A330-300]

Aer Lingus management have said they are considering moving 300 cabin crew jobs to N American bases to operate its T/A network and in a letter said crew would have to give concessions to be granted the rosters as pilots had to.

IMPACT are meeting for talks and there are no conditions! Didn't take them to meet....

IMPACT accepts Aer Lingus talks invitation - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0527/619994-aer-lingus-roster/)

[MCDU2]

Tis the usual threat since they don't want to have to deal with the labour court recommendations on rostering that they were meant to deal with over the past few years. Instead make a threat, bury your head in the sand and hope that the problem goes away.

Incidentally overseas bases have been rumoured for the past few years for pilots. Both the US and gulf have been mentioned.

[BAladdy]

EI have leased 4 aircraft from Titan Airways and 1 aircraft from Hi-Fly to operate extra flights ahead of the 24 hour strike that starts at midnight.

1 x 737 (G-ZAPZ) is being used to operate flights from ORK

1 x 737 (G-POWC), 1 x 757 (G-POWH), 1 x 767 (G-POWD) all Titan aircraft and 1 x Hi-FlyA310 (CS-TEX) are operating flights out of DUB

[Epsomdog]

O'Brien defends pension rights of airport & airline workers - YouTube (http://youtu.be/x38DicFli6E)

Anyone have any more information on this?

[aer lingus]

Fianna Fail after the Aer Lingus votes again, they pandered to them all through the years, it was reckoned that the EI vote in Dublin was worth between 3-6 seats.

[Sober Lark]

Reports of a very selective green flu on a Boston flight.

[Bearcat]

Sober lark.....reports or your report?

[Sober Lark]

I'm far too green to use any form of professional selective weed killer.

[aer lingus]

Over on Boards.ie it's been reported as a slow decompression, 7 out of 8 cc affected as well as two pax in business. All were ok once the plane landed.

[ryan2000]

If the Spell of warm sunny weather continues into July, it'll no doubt affect the load factors and yields on all those bucket and spade routes that Aerlingus have become so fond of in recent years.

[MCDU2]

Two days of sunshine and its a supposed heat wave. Last week it was grey and cold in the middle of summer. May was full of rain. No doubt there will be rain along soon enough. The only decent summer in Ireland was about 10 years ago. Still the great unwashed have little idea of the vagaries of the Irish weather systems so no doubt will be blindly lead by the Irish Daily Star - a red top over here.

[DollarBill]

In regards to Sober larks 'report' above:

What benefit would it be to crew to go sick 2 hours into a flight and then to have to be medically examined after landing back at base? Wouldn't a "green flu" be better to happen just before boarding?

In addition, no mention in the media of the passengers who were also feeling ill onboard.

[Faire d'income]

MCDU2 " Tis the usual threat since they don't want to have to deal with the labour court recommendations on rostering that they were meant to deal with over the past few years. Instead make a threat, bury your head in the sand and hope that the problem goes away.

Incidentally overseas bases have been rumoured for the past few years for pilots. Both the US and gulf have been mentioned."

Tell me, did the unions accept the Labour Court rec on the pension?

[descol]

Perhaps a stupid query - but but comments welcome
thanks

I wish to book a rtn flt to Budapest in Sept and notice EI 1672 departs DUB at 7.20 AM arriving at 11.10
But returning flt is EI 1679 which departs 20.40 ?
What happens to the EI 1672 having landed at 11.10 does this flight not return to Dublin within the hour or so ?

[Cyrano]

Perhaps a stupid query - but but comments welcome
thanks

I wish to book a rtn flt to Budapest in Sept and notice EI 1672 departs DUB at 7.20 AM arriving at 11.10
But returning flt is EI 1679 which departs 20.40 ?
What happens to the EI 1672 having landed at 11.10 does this flight not return to Dublin within the hour or so ?



The Thursday flight (EI672) is a morning rotation. The Mon-Wed-Fri-Sun flights operate as evening rotations. Amazing what one can learn from the Aer Lingus online timetable (http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/bookonline/timeTables.do)... ;)

[descol]

thanks for the info Cyrano

[Preon]

According to todays (27th June) business news Aer Lingus have agreed to a one-off payment of €146M to plug the current pension gap.

[racedo]

According to todays (27th June) business news Aer Lingus have agreed to a one-off payment of €146M to plug the current pension gap.

Its €191 million and doubt its the last.

So €104 million on float as full and final settlement on pensions, €30M in paying employees taxation when they were made redundant and immediately hired back and now €191 million on more pension contributions.
Nice way to spend €320 million until the next Final settlement payment required not covered by this.

[waffler]

Remind me again,
How much did Ryanair write off due to its attempt to take over Aer Lingus,
not counting legal fees which are still accruing ?

As to the Aer Lingus pension injection, while not agreeing with it,
at least most of the money will remain in Ireland and will help Irish families buy Irish goods and services, including flights, so do not look on it as money wasted.

[racedo]

Remind me again,
How much did Ryanair write off due to its attempt to take over Aer Lingus,
not counting legal fees which are still accruing ?

As to the Aer Lingus pension injection, while not agreeing with it,
at least most of the money will remain in Ireland and will help Irish families buy Irish goods and services, including flights, so do not look on it as money wasted.

Ryanair made €523 Million last year and already wrote off pretty much all the cost of the shares years ago as it is requried to so.

Aer Lingus made €61M and already stating that likely to be hit by 20% by staff strikes
BBC News - Aer Lingus warns of 20% profits hit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27807511)

So based on assumming they make €50m in full year as indicated by Aer Lingus is forking out almost 4 times profits in cash.................love to know how they will pay for it.

As for helping Irish economy I think like most economies you can pretty much assume that a lot of this spend will go on imported foreign goods from China.

[Jack1985]

If I see another comparison between FR/EI I might vomit. Quit it already! They are nothing alike!

love to know how they will pay for it.

They are more than capable of paying for it with the unrestricted cash piles EI has. Legally also this would be the final contribution by Aer Lingus to the IASS, so you may need to correct your wording of ''probably not the last''.

[ayroplain]

the unrestricted cash piles EI has

I wasn't aware that EI has unrestricted cash lying around somewhere. How much are you talking about?

[Jack1985]

The airline has a gross cash of €1.02bn as of Q1 FY14, of which €553.7m is net - Just €19.5m of net is restricted.

[Epsomdog]

Aer Lingus has always been in a no win position, when it comes to the IASS. Deficiencies in the funding of the scheme should have been identified, or if they had been, acted upon, at a much earlier stage. Even before flotation! For that reason I believe the Irish government should bear some of the blame for this situation.

The scheme has been poorly managed for decades! Is that the fault of the beneficiarys? Probably not!

The government, Aer lingus, Aer Rianta have all stuck their heads in the sand for years.

Surely it should now be, Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta AND the government, sticking their hands in their pockets?

Somebody should also be putting the Trustees under scrutiny. They have failed miserably in their role!

[DollarBill]

I would agree with the above.....the damage to the IASS was set in motion 10-15-20 years ago. Its the current DAA and EI that are taking the financial hit...

.....however I read the EI response to the expert panel decision. SO it looks like EI have agreed to add approx E50M to the figure mooted a few months back. In exchange they will receive written confirmation from individual staff members absolving EI of any further responsibility. So finally EI will be able to remove the IASS fund from their purview. I would see that as a worthwhile longterm investment of E191M overall. (140M + 51M)
A problem may arise in that the E191M figure is sufficient NOW....it will grow over the next 2-3 months. (Same way that the E140M figure was sufficient 12 months ago) So EI need to get this deal signed off ASAP so they can wash their hands of it.


And Racedo please stop bringing up the E30M fine/tax payment paid out by EI over the 'leave and return' scheme. That is not relevant to the pension discussion or any other current IR issues. That was 100% a mistake of the then Mgmt team,who tried to pull a fast one. So responsibility for that lies with them (the current Chief Commercial officer is the only person involved in that to still be with EI)

Even counting the 191M possible payout, EI will still be left with over E800M in their cash reserves....that's a lot more than pretty much every other Euro airline. In addition EI have stated that they will impose a salary freeze and cost reduction changes to recoup the E191M over time. So in reality EI will only be paying out the cash knowing that they will save that figure (and more I expect) over the next 5-10 years.

[Hangar6]

Well the markets like this news of a potential final closure of this long running sore,judging by the rise in share price Friday, so let's hope it's the final chapter .

[ayroplain]

The airline has a gross cash of €1.02bn as of Q1 FY14, of which €553.7m is net - Just €19.5m of net is restricted.

Even counting the 191M possible payout, EI will still be left with over E800M in their cash reserves
How do these figures equate?

In addition EI have stated that they will impose a salary freeze and cost reduction changes to recoup the E191M
Are the staff likely to agree to those impositions without further industrial action?

[Sober Lark]

When you factor in the consequences of union power those figures will always be bleak.

[DollarBill]

@ayroplain....my figures are very rough. The FY2013 results stated Euro 1.02Bn in cash reserves......I subtracted 191m (very badly) from a billion.

The unions had already agreed to the previous LRC recommendation in principle. I guess a salary freeze for 3 years to protect your pension is a small price. (on top of an already 6 years pay freeze already in place in EI)

[racedo]

And Racedo please stop bringing up the E30M fine/tax payment paid out by EI over the 'leave and return' scheme. That is not relevant to the pension discussion or any other current IR issues. That was 100% a mistake of the then Mgmt team,who tried to pull a fast one. So responsibility for that lies with them (the current Chief Commercial officer is the only person involved in that to still be with EI)

They paid tax of the employees of which they have no legal obligation to pay.

The management yet again given employees money belonging to the shareholders and NOBODY held accountable for it.

[DollarBill]

I would agree Racedo with the "nobody held accountable for it". However I look at it from a slightly different angle.

The Mgmt team under Dermot Mannion came up with the 'leave and return scheme'......at some point someone in mgmt must have raised the question of possible tax implications. We will never know. Nonetheless the Mgmt team (with the blessing of the then CEO) gave assurances to the staff (who had tax concerns themselves) the this scheme was all above board and would result in no tax penalties for the individual staffers. In this way they got the staff to sign up for it. Someone then got a pat on the back and a bonus for the successful scheme to reduce annual salary costs.

The scheme backfired on EI mgmt and they were in a position of having to pay the penalty or returning to the original salary scales. So yes, someone/some people are responsible for the payout of that 30M. However I fear that the masterminds behind already had their bonus and had left before the Revenue caught up with EI. As I already stated the current Chief Commercial Officer of EI is the only senior mgmt figure who was involved in that....he seems to have escaped any culpability.

I do see your point on money being paid out. If the staff had blindly signed up to it and then claimed fault I would fully agree with you. However the staff did query the tax situation and where given assurances from EI that it was not an issue. SO my finger points at the mgmt team who gave those assurances in order to make their plan success without any long term thinking or future concern for the airline.

[racedo]

However the staff did query the tax situation and where given assurances from EI that it was not an issue. SO my finger points at the mgmt team who gave those assurances in order to make their plan success without any long term thinking or future concern for the airline.

Given Union heavily involved in this I doubt that EI are culpable, Unions know the law better than management and happily went along with it.

[aer lingus]

Being reported in todays papers that Christop Meuller is to leave next may.

[TRY2FLY]

http://www.thejournal.ie/mueller-to-leave-aer-lingus-1577862-Jul2014/

[ayroplain]

What's really going on at EI?

Aer Lingus executive seeks High Court injunction to save job (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-executive-seeks-high-court-injunction-to-save-job-1.1879708)

[MCDU2]

You got to love the journos. I think AM was the only one that wanted to wind down and leave. All the rest have been pushed in some shape or form. I can't for a minute believe that the CEO is leaving voluntarily. Which other airline will pay him the remuneration he is currently on plus all the options?

[EI-A330-300]

H1 losses down 40% to 9.9 million
Strike cost 10 million
Q2 trading best in 5 years
20% profit warning issued in June, cancelled, profits in line with 2013 after good recovery since strike.

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/investorrelations/regulatorynews/2014pressreleases/AerLingus_H12014_results_final.pdf

The new SFO route has exceeded expectations and strongly profitable in its first Q of operation and ahead of network average.

[iwak]

Hi

Do aer lingus have a full flight and cabin crew base at lgw or is it crewed by dub based staff overnighting?

[Una Due Tfc]

Full crew base for LGW. They can be called in for LHR rotations too afaik.

Aer Lingus to launch new North America routes as profits hit ?39m - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-to-launch-new-north-america-routes-as-profits-hit-39m-30472391.html)

TA expansion.....

Well they'l need to go daily on SFO. Currently that aircraft is used 5x weekly for SFO, 2x weekly MCO, so to keep MCO going they'll need another A330. YYZ loads warrant a 330 too apparently, so that's 2 needed, which would free up the DUB based 757. They could have a pop at UA and start doing IAD again. Dallas being implied in the article.... that would also need an A330, and possibly a codeshare with AA since it's their HQ and largest hub.

I always thought MIA would work from DUB, especially with the pre-clearance. Customs is by far the worst part of the MIA experience. A 4x weekly 330 to MIA and 3x weekly to MCO maybe?

[DollarBill]

CEO:
I would agree with the above that the departure of the CEO is a little unexpected......however he has been in place 5 years and has fulfilled most of his goals. From the start he was due to last 4-5 years. So its doesn't look to me that he is being pushed, more like "thanks for all the hard work, bye now" Personally I would have preferred to see him extend his contract. But that's life.

IT article:
I think the problem now for EI is whether the replacement is a belt tightener or an exec with vision who can build on the solid financial position that Mueller has established. Looking at the article about the Chief of Marketing being pushed doesn't ode well in my opinion. I feel that the EI marketing/brand image has been on the money over the last few years.

New routes:
The Chief Commercial Officer previously stated "East coast or Florida" are being looked at for expansion. So its a toss up between FLL or MIA. I think FLL would allow them to connect to the Gulf cruise traffic and JetBlue's services from FLL.
MIA seems less likely to me as it doesn't lead anywhere. I don't think a codeshare with AA would be probable. While EI is not in an alliance this move could annoy current codeshare partners.

I find the mention of Dallas intriguing. Might be more viable than the already crowded East Coast market.


Fleet:
In terms of expansion next year...I would agree that 2 extra A330's seem likely. I have heard whispers already of 1 already sourced. Daily SFO requires another A/C, this A/C could also operate 2-3 rotations to YYZ if required. New routes would then need a 2nd A330 in order to maintain current routes.

[Mlinnie]

Would Las Vegas or Los Angeles be a possibility?

[EI-A330-300]

CEO:
I would agree with the above that the departure of the CEO is a little unexpected......however he has been in place 5 years and has fulfilled most of his goals. From the start he was due to last 4-5 years. So its doesn't look to me that he is being pushed, more like "thanks for all the hard work, bye now" Personally I would have preferred to see him extend his contract. But that's life.

Since he got the CEO of An Post it was bound to happen.

New routes:
The Chief Commercial Officer previously stated "East coast or Florida" are being looked at for expansion. So its a toss up between FLL or MIA. I think FLL would allow them to connect to the Gulf cruise traffic and JetBlue's services from FLL.
MIA seems less likely to me as it doesn't lead anywhere. I don't think a codeshare with AA would be probable. While EI is not in an alliance this move could annoy current codeshare partners.

I find the mention of Dallas intriguing. Might be more viable than the already crowded East Coast market.

Dallas is AA's hub but Houston is UA second largest (bigger than EWR 385) with over 560 daily flights just behind ORD.

In general more Int carries operate from Houston than Dallas hence it being the largest gateway to Texas. Closer to home AF/TK don't serve Dallas, KLM are seasonal while all year round from Houston.

If you look at the 2015 schedules from MAY, YYZ is 4 weekly 752 and not daily. I agree the route is doing well however I can't see a daily 330 but perhaps 3 weekly peak summer months is possible.

All will be known by end of September!

[Cyrano]

Since he got the CEO of An Post it was bound to happen.


Check your facts! He is not the CEO of An Post but the Chairman, not exactly a full time job, so it wasn't "bound to happen" as a result of that at all. Personally I think the recent pension-entitlement issue was the tipping point.

[DollarBill]

Chairman of An Post could be a sign that he is in line for a similar role in another Irish semi-state? Could you see him being appointed CEO of Irish water or ESB?

[EI-A330-300]

Check your facts! He is not the CEO of An Post but the Chairman, not exactly a full time job, so it wasn't "bound to happen" as a result of that at all. Personally I think the recent pension-entitlement issue was the tipping point.

CEO or Chairman, once it happened most knew his time at EI was running out. Your may be right about why he is leaving however his own pension package and how it went down with shareholders could be a factor to!

[Cyrano]

his own pension package and how it went down with shareholders could be a factor to!

Agreed, we're talking about the same pension-entitlement issue! Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

[Jack1985]

Personally I think the recent pension-entitlement issue was the tipping point.

Personally you are wrong. Mueller stated from the onset he could turnaround the business which he has, he never stated he could continue that once Aer Lingus was well into lucrative profitability as it currently is. Mueller has set three targets to staff before he leaves, 1) successful resolution to the IASS dispute in Nov/Dec - 2) Final judgment on Ryanair's shareholding in Jan which Mueller intents to allow those shares float into the free market. 3) To ensure continued turnaround of CORE is completed/fulfilled.

That's why there is a move to replace the management team with higher proven track record of people who ensured sustained profitability. There is nothing wrong with that and Aer Lingus' mission now is clear.

[johnrizzo2000]

EI139 is showing as a 757 for next summer, which would mean a 330 would be freed up to increase SFO to daily and launch FLL/MIA. The extra rumoured 330 could then be used for a Texan route, add a rumoured extra frequency to MCO, and provide some slack to the schedule for maintenance etc.

[VanBosh]

From the recent results it seems that the TA traffic is 50% non connecting, 30% Europe to EI US destinations and vice versa and 20% US connections. Adding a new destination kind of needs to be able to match that profile. EI will have data on which US cities people are booking to/from Dublin so will have a good idea on which city would work best, I think Texas and Flirida are the most likely. One risk is that a new destination may move traffic from other US routes/ connections but Toronto and San Fran doesn't seem to have had an impact.

If I had to guess I would say two more destinations will be announced in the next 8 weeks.

[EI-BUD]

Absolutely agree with VanBosh, EI will be mindful of what the data says in terms of where people are actually going, the most popular and profitable final destinations will be natural choices. I'd also suggest that EI need to be able to provide connectivity for the passengers who want to fly point to point especially to the most popular destinations like Boston New York etc. freeing up capacity on these routes ( ie by drawing pax to direct services) will allow them to also grow that business .

I'd expect new destinations could be chosen from the existing bases of Jet Blue or United. Is Montreal a possibility, they've operated there before, maybe be a suitable route for Boeing 757?

[Jack1985]

I'd expect new destinations could be chosen from the existing bases of Jet Blue or United. Is Montreal a possibility, they've operated there before, maybe be a suitable route for Boeing 757?

No. There will be two new destinations, one in Texas and the other in Florida. Both outside the hubs of B6/UA and both of the new routes will more than likely mean a new codeshare.

[Dontgothere]

I'm sure everyone remembers the rumours that were doing the rounds last summer about 2x A320s being geared up to provide a Halifax (NS) service, was that ever really going to take off, or just hearsay?

I would have thought that a Montreal service would have been more realistic had the extra fuel tanks been fitted. Better still try to get an un-modified A319-111, as that can just about do DUB-YUL according the specs sheet. So, like EI-BUD I am curious as to whether or not that route will be considered.

As for the new codeshare, I'm going to assume it's an Etihad codeshare.

[EI-BUD]

It would sound risky to me to employ a 330 on a route to the US where there was limited onward connectivity with a code share partner, though I realise that the respective airlines may have many routes from the new destinations even if not a hub for them . Newark springs to mind, at the time that it was axed it was due to a lack of onward connections, clearly at time they were working closely with UA.

[VanBosh]

Maybe Miami and Dallas with AA connections at both.

[Una Due Tfc]

Houston and Miami have huge connectivity to South America with AA, and the Carribean through MIA

[MCDU2]

Halifax is going ahead. Will find out the details later this week. But it will be a mini bus of some variety. Either the ex Iberia 320s that we're originally etops fitted or else new ships - possibly etops 319s.

[BHD2BFS]

I really think EI made a big mistake moving from BFS to BHD
They cut a dozen routes and ended up in direct competition with BA on LHR and etops a320 would have been the perfect size aircrwft to start Halifax from belfast as there is clearly a demand for a Canadian route from the north

[Jack1985]

This Belfast deserves more and all this is so tiring now. DUB is Aer Lingus' main Hub, there not going to be launching a Halifax route from Belfast with none from Dublin, how would that even make sense with the amount of feed potential at home? Airlines are not charities. And FYI, BHD against BFS has been working at lot better through yields and margins for EI.