Aer Lingus - 6

[mart901]

Not sure do Aer Arann have any aircraft that could be converted to operate such routes? To my knowledge they still have 2 x ATR72-212 in service but as to being in a fit state to fly under the EI banner maybe another matter. Be great to see them expand at Belfast and it would be a natural next step for them I think. Every time I look at Aer Arann website it gets more green and seems to have more references to EI, maybe as they have been so successful in franchise the RE brand will slip away altogether?

[EI-BUD]

mart901, I think you are right there, Aer Arann Regional in its own guise only fly a small batch of routes, DUB IOM, DUB KIR, IOM LCY, WAT SEN, LTN MAN....and seasonally WAT Lorient..
So that is in effect 6 regular routes.

Cant see Aer Arann maintaining its own brand in the medium term.

EI-BUD

[mart901]

That said, correct me if I'm wrong but EIR does have active ATR72-212's in the fleet? 1 or 2, I'm not sure if the one damaged at SNN ever returned to service? Can anyone shed light on this? I did read the aircraft based at Galway was to be put into storage and with less PSO routes they may be able to free up a 212? One thing I can never quite see is an ATR42 ever flying as EIR, somehow, unless there was a total refit of the cabin, and would that really be worth it? Probably more feasable to lease 72's.
I do believe BFS would be a brilliant base for them to expand on thinner routes and as previously said, fill gaps like LBA and BHX. BFS is well situated to serve lots of areas if not all of Northern Ireland without getting caught in city traffic.

[EI-BUD]

mart901, I think Aer Lingus Regional only use ATR72 (all 212s) aircraft, ie no 42s. Check jethros.org.uk for specific info (not sure i am allowed to quote sites!!)

BFS has been rumoured on this forum ages ago but nothing happened and the interest was about the time that EZY announced BFS MAN, so not quite sure. I think there are a few routes that could work BHX being the main one, perhaps CWL, though it would be thin. Outside of that as you say LBA, only if LS pull the route as has been rumoured. Perhaps a BRU daily 72 could work though not sure if that would be an instant hit. To my mind not a lot of other opportunities as most other points in GB well served by a Belfast airport, EMA too intense from BHD to make it worthwhile.

EI-BUD

[mart901]

from what I can tell its 4 x 500's and 2 x 212's but I'm sure one of those 212's was invilved in the incident at SNN. Apart from BFS routes I would imagine EIR could possibly fit into Newcastle, maybe a southwest UK route and maybe LBA all from DUB. I certainly can't imagine what we have now is the end of their expansion. I also think SEN - DUB would be a good one, before anyone else gets a foot in the door.

[Flowerdream]

Dublin - Stockholm & Maastricht will be 4 weekly


Maastricht allready cancelled before sale?

[Shamrogue]

Would SEN - DUB not perhaps turn into another bloodbath. Not due to competition on SEN-DUB but simply on LON in general.
BMI have been shrinking a/c, EI's interline helps their figures but there's no interline traffic with SEN. And comparing STN and SEN - kinda the same. So unless RE pick up a cheap 737 or 320 - the economics might not be the best. But of course, the guys in RE already have that one sussed no doubt

Regards
Shamrogue

[mart901]

I think under aer lingus regional branding they could make it work, they have done out of bristol and effectively driven ryanair out of aberdeen, although they would never admit that. I think under the RE brand they would be much more vulnerable, but I think the main cause of a bloodbath would be EZY on the route, something I can't see, but, I also can't see the airport expanding to routes all over europe but not to a main hub like DUB just in case of upsetting MOL. Somebody somewhere in aviation must have some balls! ;)

[EI-BUD]

Slightly off topic I know but relating to the last posts; if easyJet don't serve Dublin from SEN, fair assumption to say Dublin wont feature in the easyJet schedule for the foreseeable future.

[bf02]

Where did you hear Maastricht was cancelled?

[Papa2Charlie]

Thanks for the information on the EI Regional capacity.

As far as I'm aware, 4 x ATR72-500's and 2 x ATR72-212's have been dedicated to the regional brand. The aircraft which had the accident in Shannon was later replaced with one of the other 212's being painted in EIR colours. According to Ascend, the damaged airframe is due back in Service in December but I'm not sure if this is reliable.

On the topic of growth, I think they'll continue to add one or two routes here and there over the coming seasons. The real question in my mind is whether or not they can step up the game a little and pick up some EI mainline flying on thinner routes which are hard to justify with a A320 series aircraft. It's been reported in the past that EI were examining the options for C-Series and E-Jets......could these find their way into the Aer Lingus Regional brand? The economics would be appealing for Aer Lingus given the lower cost base of Aer Arann and Aer Arann would presumably get access to routes and growth otherwise not achievable on its own. Prospective routes could follow the Lufthansa Cityline model and involve flights complimentary to the mainline e.g. additional frequency to key European destinations.

Just a thought but from a financial perspective, it'd be appealing for both operators I'd imagine.

[dublinaviator]

It's been reported in the past that EI were examining the options for C-Series and E-Jets......could these find their way into the Aer Lingus Regional brand? The economics would be appealing for Aer Lingus given the lower cost base of Aer Arann and Aer Arann would presumably get access to routes and growth otherwise not achievable on its own.

Not unless Aer Arann were to buy the jets themselves, which won't happen.

Remember, all of the financial risk in the Regional franchise lies with Aer Arann. In turn, Aer Arann retain the bulk of the profits from the routes, with Aer Lingus being given a royalty fee for the use of their brand name, where they would've otherwise broke even or lost money operating the routes under their own metal, while also increasing the amount of transfer passengers onto their long-haul flights (where the real money is).

So assuming Aer Lingus make an order for regional jets in the future, they would become part of the 'mainline' fleet.

[mart901]

Aer Lingus had discussed the possibility of regional jets to run thinner european routes, then it all went quiet. All of a sudden they had quietly slipped in A319's.......was that as an alternative?

[Papa2Charlie]

Ok, point taken regarding the ownership of the aircraft but the question remains, could EI use the Regional brand to develop additional routes which it would find uneconomical to do so on its own? Especially to develop routes beyond the Ireland / UK axis.

@ Mart,

I think the leasing of the A319's is the path of least resistance to allow EI better manage capacity on certain routes. I'm not overly familiar with the A/C but I'm lead to believe it's not the most favoured of A/C at the moment due to having very similar maintenace costs to the A320. I assume the operating costs (fuel, crew etc.) are lower than the A320?

The purchase of any smaller aircraft by EIN will be a long term project and I really can't see them making any major purchases in the near future. The E-Jet market seems to be opening from a lessor perspective but it's arguably an unnecessary expense for EIN to take an additional type into the fleet at the moment.

[Cyrano]

I think the leasing of the A319's is the path of least resistance to allow EI better manage capacity on certain routes. I'm not overly familiar with the A/C but I'm lead to believe it's not the most favoured of A/C at the moment due to having very similar maintenace costs to the A320.

Well, the A318 is a known dog (only 54 in service) but there are over 1,200 A319s currently flying, so "not the most favoured" is a relative term! :cool: One of the A319's key selling points is the commonality with the A320, so I wouldn't expect much difference in maintenance costs between the types; on the other hand, I'd expect considerable savings (compared to geting a different aircraft entirely) from not having to stock two sets of spares for everything.

[irish lad]

Has EI said what routes the A319 will be used on next summer?

[EI-A330-300]

All in Pricing - Aer Lingus (http://www.aerlingus.com/allinpricing/)

About time...except they don't include the handling fee.

[DannyKelly22]

IRISH LAD - 2 x A319 are moving to the Belfast Base for the Summer Season, these are the 2 that are already in Dublin at the moment.

Other related EI news. Apparently they have won the contract to provide catering for EK flights which begin in January.

[Papa2Charlie]

Hi Cyrano,

When I speak of the A319 not being a favoured A/C, I speak of it from what I'm told by people involved in the leasing business. Apparently lease rates of the A/C have not held up as airlines aren't particularly eager to acquire the type at the moment. I would view the A/C in the same light as the B737-700.....successful on orders initially but fading as time goes on when compared to its sibling.

[EI-BUD]

Apparently they have won the contract to provide catering for EK flights which begin in January


Danny, you are right on this one, Servisair will handle EK and EI will provide catering!!!

EI-BUD

[NorthernCounties]

Aer Lingus voted second best shorthaul carrier by 8000 Which? Members. :)
Thomas Cook 'The Worst Short-Haul Carrier', Consumer Watchdog Says (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/14/thomas-cook-worst-airline-ryanair_n_1147595.html)

[EISNN]

Aer Lingus came second to Swiss last year too. Although there was only one point in it then. Aer Lingus has dropped from 71% to 67% and Swiss has jumped from 72% to 76%. Still it's a great job done considering they would've been up against some of the big European airlines with more money. I put it down to their friendly, helpful staff. :D:D:D:D

the link below is for the results last year

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/06/air-new-zealand-and-swiss-soar-in-passenger-survey-215804/

[PPRuNeUser0176]

EK to use Aer Lingus lounge in T2, they have no plans yet to build there own one but are due to announce a sharing agreement with another airline. Can't see EY and EK going to share so EI is the only carrier left.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Aer Lingus announced Stockholm and Verona from DUB as well as increased flights on 13 other routes, from DUB and FAO and AMS from Cork.

Aer Lingus announces two new routes for summer 2012 | Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/aer-lingus-announces-two-new-routes-for-summer-2012-532247.html)

[mart901]

Anybody know any details on the capacity increases and what routes?

[Flowerdream]

Aer Lingus announced Stockholm and Verona from DUB as well as increased flights on 13 other routes, from DUB and FAO and AMS from Cork.


So Maastricht is scraped out of the new summer routes for sure?

[ryan2000]

And no mention of Cork Frankfurt either. Still 3 vacant slots on Monday Wednesday and Friday for one of the Cork aircraft. Please not another bucket and spade route?

[EI-A330-300]

Anybody know any details on the capacity increases and what routes?


See page 34 on Dublin page. Jamie2k9 posted details but has since said further changes have happoned and he would update it again when the whole schedule is confirmed by EI.

We will have to wait and see what affect Ryanair have on Cork-Palma route. As EI have reduced it from last year.

So Maastricht is scraped out of the new summer routes for sure?

No a suprise. With good schedule to AMS and EIN with FR, it would of turned out LGW-EIN route did.

[Jack1985]

Aer Lingus announces two new routes for summer 2012 | Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/aer-lingus-announces-two-new-routes-for-summer-2012-532247.html)

I thought ORK-FRA was set in stone and the slots had been granted too? either they've found a better yield route or the slots are going to Dublin :ugh:

[aer lingus]

Maybe waiting to see what Ryanair are going to do. They have started to go head to head with EI out of Cork in the last few years.

[EI-A330-300]

New DUB routes schedules:

DUB-ARN
Monday, Wednesday, Friday
DUB 07.40-ARN 11.15
ARN 11.55-DUB 13.35
Sundays
DUB 14.10-ARN 17.45
ARN 18.25-DUB 20.05

DUB-VRN
Wednesday
DUB 15.50-VRN 19.20
VRN 20.00-DUB 21.40
Saturday
DUB 12.10-VRN 15.40
VRN 16.20-DUB 18.00

All A320

ARN starts 25 March and VRN starts 28 March.

[j636]

Aer Lingus looks forward to summer 2012 with new routes and increased frequencies | SourceWire (http://www.sourcewire.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=69160)

with more announcements to follow later this month. We look forward to welcoming our customers on board in summer 2012."



Intresting times ahead...

[AIRPORT66]

And Belfast gets nothing just same bucket spade routes.

[EI-A330-300]

Aer Lingus have tried Amsterdam, Rome (being dropped), Milan, Paris and I think Budapest. Only so much an airline can do. With the base dropping to 2 A319 and 1 A320 does that not tell people anything....Sun routes can't even sustain a A320 and only reason a A320 is staying for LPA, ACE, TFS which EI would do with a A319 if they could.

[Shamrock350]

Aer Lingus also gave Munich and Geneva a try from BFS and they were dropped, those routes just don't work from BFS with Aer Lingus. Even sun routes and UK regional routes far outweigh anything else on offer from Easyjet so the market just isn't there for much else.

Bucket and spade routes might be boring but they make money.

[EI-BUD]

And Belfast gets nothing just same bucket spade routes.


To be fair to EI-330 says Aer Lingus has tried many different markets some that were just too ambitious, I feel that AMS would have worked if there was an interlining with KLM. In any case looking at BFS and the approach of Jet2, who have many seasonal niche routes such as Dubrovnik, Toulouse, Pisa, Blackpool etc, they have started looking at the busy and arguably saturated sun routes such as Alicante as these are the routes where the demand exists. Plain and simply we have a limited market, 2 airports competing for quite a small prize and Dublin not far away to offer the range of destinations and often low fares from Ryanair and Aer Lingus too.

We are not getting a good share of inbound tourists on European routes, I fly frequently to Spain and I never see many if any Spaniards on the flights, but when I fly to/from Dublin there are many.

Obscure routes wont work with a large aircraft or without good inbound demand.


P.S add Geneva and Munich to that list of routes closed!



Aer Lingus have tried Amsterdam, Rome (being dropped), Milan, Paris and I think Budapest. Only so much an airline can do. With the base dropping to 2 A319 and 1 A320 does that not tell people anything....Sun routes can't even sustain a A320 and only reason a A320 is staying for LPA, ACE, TFS which EI would do with a A319 if they could.


I think A320 is sustainable on Sun routes for EI, the problem is the seasonality of the markets and with a 319 on in winter greater chance of some profit, or more than currently achieving. I think the 319 will be a nice little experiment for EI. Nice to see this winter that routes like ALC are doing surprisingly well I was on 3 weeks ago and there was 120 on the flight back which is good for November!

EI-BUD

[Sober Lark]

Aer Lingus new translucent promise to their customers.

"In order to provide complete transparency to our customers regarding how we charge for our flights, all prices displayed include taxes and charges"

Should read '...complete transparency*.."

*excludes our obligatory €6 handling fee per person per flight.

[Shamrock350]

Aer Lingus can still exclude the handling fee from the full fare as its still just about avoidable with a Visa Electron card. These aren't issued anymore so Aer Lingus will have to come up with another alternative soon or better yet, just do away with card fees!

[ayroplain]

Was passing through DUB Wed. morning about 10.30am and noticed five (5) EI A320's/321? parked remotely near fire station plus 1 x Regional ATR. Two more A320's were "silent" at Pier A. Seems a lot of a/c to be idle at that hour of the day. Was this exceptional or have they "parked" a/c for the winter? (2 x FR738's also parked remote so assume these are 2 of the 80 on the ground).

[fivejuliet]

Ryanair does not really "park" aircraft for the winter. Aircraft will not be utilised to the max throughout the day, longer layovers etc.

What you saw could well be some of the latest withdrawals from the fleet either.

[boyzinblue]

Does anyone know why cork-berlin is on the route map? Is the route returning?

[Jamie2k9]

Was never taken off the map when it was dropped.

[mart901]

Happy Christmas from Aer Lingus - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-UA0r2lTLk&feature=youtu.be)

[EI-A330-300]

Premium Economy should be announced soon on Long Haul flights. One row in Ecomny will be removed to give Premium Economy seats with 4''-5'' extra leg room.

[Noxegon]

That's great news.

[Aisle2c]

I hope to take the family to the US for a holiday in late June/early July, does anyone know if there will be a seat sale (for that period) in the the coming weeks or will there be no seat sale for what is the high season ?

[EI-A330-300]

There most lightly will be a sale of some sort but US fares tend not to change a huge amount.

[Aisle2c]

Thanks, any idea of when that sale is likely to be ?

As they say, every little helps !

[EI-A330-300]

late Jan or month of Feb.

[airbourne]

PE would sit well in the 330-300 with the mini cabin rows 9-11, take out 1 row and there you go.

[EI-A330-300]

Hearing that only 2 A319 will enter service in March and be based at BFS. The other two will arrive late 2012 early 2013 and enter service March 2013.

The second A319 is beig painted in MAD.

[JSCL]

Either UK taxes are really absurd or I'm missing something, but I've just been planning a business trip/tour for August 2012 and it seems it's cheaper for me to fly Aer Lingus from Lisbon than from MAN to JFK (I'll be going from LIS anyway, but it seems strange...)

[aer lingus]

UK taxs are off the wall.:ugh:€3 travel tax in Ireland, whats the UK version, something like £29 I think.

[Jack1985]

Exactly the reason the Chancellor needs to either seriously reduce the damaging APD or axe it all together,

Irish Departure Tax: €3
UK APD until 31 March 2012;

Band A (0 – 2000 miles) - £24
Band B (2001 – 4000 miles) - £120 (MAN-JFK)
Band C (4001 – 6000 miles) - £150
Band D (over 6000 miles) - £170

UK APD From 1 April 2012;

Band A (0 – 2000 miles) - £26
Band B (2001 – 4000 miles) - £130 (MAN-JFK)
Band C (4001 – 6000 miles) - £162
Band D (over 6000 miles) - £184


Most airlines try to reduce the APD by absorbing some of the cost, example BA and Virgin.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

UK APD is going up or has gone up.

Band A (0 – 2000 miles) - £24


Thats now/going to be £28. The other bands also going up

Not sure but think its came into affect of 1 Jan.

[jdcg]

Surely it would be incredibly stupid to cut the tax just before the biggest sporting event of a lifetime about to happen in East London? It's a captive market. Those coming to the Olympics will have to pay it to get home. Those Brits thinking of getting away for a while and spending their money elsewhere may think twice. Also, Brits heading off to Euro 2012 should be a nice little APD earner.

[Jack1985]

Surely it would be incredibly stupid to cut the tax just before the biggest sporting event of a lifetime about to happen in East London? It's a captive market. Those coming to the Olympics will have to pay it to get home. Those Brits thinking of getting away for a while and spending their money elsewhere may think twice. Also, Brits heading off to Euro 2012 should be a nice little APD earner.

Good point, but what Virgin, easyJet, IAG, Ryanair and others have been saying is outside of inbound tourism for the Olympics, inbound tourism is being destroyed in the UK, i really do think the tax needs to be reduced but at the end of the day who can see the Chancellor wanting to scrap billions in revenues.

[racedo]

Good point, but what Virgin, easyJet, IAG, Ryanair and others have been saying is outside of inbound tourism for the Olympics, inbound tourism is being destroyed in the UK, i really do think the tax needs to be reduced but at the end of the day who can see the Chancellor wanting to scrap billions in revenues.

The number of inbound tourists that will come for the Olympics is dwarfed by the number of tourists / business who come here outside of that time.

Problem will be that the normal tourists who come anyway during the summer will stay away because
1.) cost of accommodation
2.) feeling that it will be too crowded etc etc

Sadly aviation taxes are a reality and Govts see them as if you can afford to fly you can afford to pay.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Why do Aer Lingus sell flights that are scheduled to be A321 as A320. Every single A321 flight has only 174 seats on sale and the remaining 38 blocked out.

And what routes are they planned to operate next summer.

[Jamie2k9]

Most lightly if one goes tech its much easier to be able to transfer all passengers to an A320. If there is high demand they release the last number of seats.

For this summer they will operate: London LHR, Warsaw, Budapest, Palma, Nice, Alicante, Brussels possibly a few others.

[Cyrano]

Why do Aer Lingus sell flights that are scheduled to be A321 as A320. Every single A321 flight has only 174 seats on sale and the remaining 38 blocked out.

I'd imagine it allows them to optimise revenue. They look at which flights are attracting the most bookings and then closer to the date of departure they allocate the A321s to the lines of flying (maybe even different on different days of the week or different months) which look as though they'll need the extra seats.

[brian_dromey]

A few years back I flew LIN-DUB, when we booked it was scheduled as an A320, it later changes to an A321, just for that day only. There was a large group of Italian teenagers on the flight, presumably learning english for the summer. As it happens the A321 developed a tech problem and we flew back to DUB on a chartered Titan 757, but that is beside the point!

By leaving the A320 seat map they have optimum flexibility. You might also notice that on A321 scheduled flights row 12 and 13 tend to be unavailable for seat selection (A320 exit rows) and on A320 flights 9A, 9F and 22A, 22F also tend to be unavailable (non existent on A321 due to location of the exit doors), again this allows EI optimum flexibility to swap aircraft around as loads dictate without messing up seat assignments.

[Chidken Sangwich]

Off topic but as its mentioned above, those APD rates are for 'Standard rate', i.e. anything above Economy / Y class.

The Y class APD rates are:

Band A 0–2,000 miles* £12 / £13
Band B 2,001–4,000 miles £60 / £65
Band C 4,001–6,000 miles £75 / £81
Band D over 6,000 miles £85 / £92

second figure is rate from 01 Apr 2012.

And yes I agree, its yet another rip-off tax which is killing long-haul from the UK. Just look at the reduction in I.T. charter flying and the amount of Cruise ships that now start their journeys ex UK as the Cruise companies wont pay the extra APD on the long-haul charters they need to get the pax there.

[Noxegon]

Have just heard that today's EI207 MAN/DUB has gone tech at Manchester. Something amiss with the landing gear apparently.

[Seljuk22]

The purchase of a major stake in Irish carrier Aer Lingus will be discussed between Etihad's Chief Executive Officer James Hogan and Ireland's Minister of Transport when the two meet before Monday, Gulf News has learned.
The meeting, likely to be held tomorrow, will try to resume talks which followed initial discussions in September.

gulfnews : Etihad to discuss Air Lingus stake sale with Dublin (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/etihad-to-discuss-air-lingus-stake-sale-with-dublin-1.962452)

[EI-A330-300]

A lot of crew saying that LGW base will close at then end of March. Not know if ORK and NOC will contuine but as the last AGP flight finished today there is not point of the base.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Cabin Crew - Dublin Base - Aer Lingus (http://www.aerlingus.com/aboutus/careersvacancies/cabincrew-dublinbase/)

Its being a while since EI have needed to hire CC..Great to see the airline is doing well.

[EI-A330-300]

December passengers up 13%.

Short Haul - 638,000 up 11.5%
Long Haul - 64,000 down 5%
EI Regional - up 13%

LF down 6.2% to 69.4

Numbers are up slight without out the affects of snow and there LF was affected because of the snow.

2011 total passengers up 0.5% to 9.76 million with a LF of 76.4%

[DollarBill]

With only 3 A321 insevice 90% of routes are operated by A320 so easier to have this as the standard seat map. As Jamie2K/Cyrano pointed out EI keep their A321 as extra capacity where needed. All planing is A320 as default, it then gets tweaked to an A321 closer to the operation. They may be initially scheduled on certain routes but EI have no problem switching them during the week/day as needed.

[sworder1976]

I dont know is it a wind up but I heard a rumour that Aer Arran have sent a ATR42 to Shannon for painting into Aer Lingus regional colours. Looking a airfleets.net the YOUNGEST 42 they operate is 20.5 years old. I have been on them before going to Sligo and all I can say is wow. Seats broken, toilet was rank, smelling an lets say an odour was coming from it which you could get half way up its small cabin. I do not think it had been wash properly in about 10 years. The cabin itself with its colour scheme would not be out of place in 1970's Kazakhstan livingroom. Can Aer Arran just do this as part of their agreement or has Aer lingus let them do this. Last time I saw one in Dublin it looked fit for retirement never mind going into service for the national carrier. What routes will these 42's do? Its quiet funny that 10 years after Aer lingus commuter retired its Fokker 50 fleet it has been replaced with a small older aircraft. At least the cabin crew are great at Arran there always smiling I guess thats all they can do.

[mart901]

I flew on EI-CBK last week and I did hear the cabin crew saying it was going for total refit and I would agree it was worn out but clean and no bad odour! Cabin crew we're great. Maybe this is the aircraft that you have heard about sworder, I didn't catch the conversation properly.

[sworder1976]

Yep, What I have heard is the whole fleet is turning Aer Lingus Regional.The first one is already in for painting. So That looks like the end of RE. Also engineering is rumoured to be moving from GWY to hanger 6 in DUB. Its been quiet regarding news for sometime so I guess there may be some truth to these rumours.

[mart901]

Not quite what ive heard, but I believe RE have no intention of investing into the RE brand any further so that would make sense of what you've said. I have also heard RE are intending to open Galway flights from Apr, but nothing confirmed as yet.

[racedo]

Last time I saw one in Dublin it looked fit for retirement never mind going into service for the national carrier.

The national what ?

[sworder1976]

Yes yes point taken raceco, Privatization. I should say the carrier where most people want to go / connect from DUB, HEL, ARN, FRA, CDG and LHR to name a few.

[dochealth]

Due to go to BRS soon and SNN would suit best but seriously considering going to Dublin to fly FR.

Why- because concerned re safety of RE rustbuckets.

Am I right to be concerned?

DH

[JSCL]

No need to be concerned if they're EI Regional. Ultimately, issues like the not so long ago nose wheel collapse will happen with old props in seriously windy conditions and a hard landing takes place - that's the way of the world - it could have been any other airline with the A/C type in a similar situation. Ultimately, maintenance is a top operation from what I've been told for RE. They're perfectly safe to fly on. If they weren't, they'd be grounded.

[EI-A330-300]

A little over the top? Aircraft are not that bad and are currently having new cabins etc fitted.

[mart901]

The majority of EIR flights currently are on very new 72-500's. FR has had its fair share of bumps and scrapes over the years.

[Skipness One Echo]

Why- because concerned re safety of RE rustbuckets.



MSN Type Delivery date Registration Manufactured
161 ATR43-200 20/12/2002 EI-BYO 1989
199 ATR43-200 16/01/2001 EI-CBK 1990
191 ATR43-200 27/04/2001 EI-CPT 1990
196 ATR43-200 22/12/2009 EI-EHH 1990
260 ATR72-202 14/02/2006 EI-REH 1991
267 ATR72-202 18/11/2005 EI-REI 2008
748 ATR72-212A 08/03/2008 EI-REL 2008
760 ATR72-212A 01/08/2008 EI-REM 2008
787 ATR72-212A 12/08/2008 EI-REO 2008
797 ATR72-212A 12/08/2008 EI-REP 2008
387 ATR72-212 03/06/2010 EI-SLL 1995
413 ATR72-212 21/06/2010 EI-SLM 1994

There are five new-ish aicraft, the rest are all over seventeen years old with the oldest at twenty three years. Not all fly for Aer Lingus though.
Courtesy of www.airfleets.net
Aer Arann EI-BYO (ATR 42/72 - MSN 161) (Ex OY-CIS ) | Airfleets aviation (http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-atr-161.htm)

[mart901]

And how old is the bmibaby fleet, some of jet2's, thomson, tcx and monarchs 757's??? They're not exaclty young!

[PPRuNeUser0176]

SNN-BRS is operated by one of the newer ATR 72 which is based in Cork.

[Tom the Tenor]

That list should also include another ATR-72, EI-SLN!

Where's me cap! ;)

[bananamanuk]

For a site that is supposed to be for aviation professionals i am very surprised by the comment above. aircraft age is less important to how well maintained. the comment above re the nosewheel collapse... dash 8 aircraft of much newer vintage have suffered their fair share of gear problems. whilst not exactly glamourous on the inside at the moment as has been mentioned this is likely changing. i remember everyone being perfectly happy to fly ryanair when they had old bac111 and old 737s. ias pointed out above it wouldnt be able to fly if it was unsafe

[Steviec9]

I fly EIR/RE fairly regularly and whilst I admit some of the cabin interiors could do with a refresh, I have ABSOLUTE confidence in the maintenance of the aircraft and professionalism of the crews in the highly unlikely event of something untoward occurring. I would be more likely to avoid another airline where I have serious doubts about cabin crew abilities away from sales and am concerned at communication issues on UK/Irish routes where the majority of crew have English as a second language and cannot make themselves understood over the PA or when giving out simple instructions during cabin securing, resulting in frustration on both sides and subsequent arguments.

EI mainline crew are generally second to none in both professionalism and courtesy.

[racedo]

I would be more likely to avoid another airline where I have serious doubts about cabin crew abilities away from sales and am concerned at communication issues on UK/Irish routes where the majority of crew have English as a second language and cannot make themselves understood over the PA or when giving out simple instructions during cabin securing, resulting in frustration on both sides and subsequent arguments.


Why not just say Ryanair rather than using mealy mouthed innuendo.

[Bearcat]

here we go again FR V EIN, national carrier, can't speak on PA's etc......when will this horse manure ever stop?

[FR-]

All Ryanair cabin crew are tested and must pass with ICAO level 4 or above. Some of us have a lovely PA voice ;)

fr-

[Steviec9]

Some of us have a lovely PA voice

Indeed some of you do and it's a joy to hear you and I appreciate your pride in your role and empathy with the pax. :ok: Thank you (sincerely).

What I don't enjoy is being barked at with one or two word commands without the use of 'please' or 'thank you' or a smile

I find this prevalent in some companies more than others (I'm talking generally in the service and travel industry) and I am lucky to have the choice to take my business elsewhere when I feel that, on the whole, the customer service model itself is lacking.

I'll say AGAIN what I've said before, I have no beef with FR, you get what you pay for and, on that basis, they've never let me down. However, I treat them much like the NHS and private medical insurance - they're great when you need them but wherever possible, I'll pay to take my business elsewhere and leave a seat for those less fortunate.

[dublinaviator]

Due to go to BRS soon and SNN would suit best but seriously considering going to Dublin to fly FR.

Why- because concerned re safety of RE rustbuckets.

Am I right to be concerned?

DH

No, and I'd love to know what your 'safety concerns' are. :rolleyes:

[Papa2Charlie]

Anyone happen to know what the reason was behind this diversion into Gander??

Flight Disruption Information - Aer Lingus (http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/flightdisruptioninformation/)

[PPRuNeUser0176]

May be somthing tech related. It departed MCO 91 mins late on Tuesday night, Inbound arrived on time.

[dochealth]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
Will book RE/EI snn to brs...:)

[EI-A330-300]

There were issues with an enigne on one of the A330 a week or so ago and I think thats the aicraft which is operating the route, buts its most lightly tech reasons for the delay.

The new ETA into DUB is at 05.00 tomorrow and not 02.30 as stated on the EI site.

[HON]

Was a medical emergency with 2 pax - crew out of hours - simple.

[EISNN]

@A330-300. Why would you say that there was an issue with an engine of the aircraft in YQX and then say that it's most likely not related? You shouldn't even suggest it. I am 100% certain that EI engineers wouldn't put any passengers, crew or aircraft in the air if there was a question mark over any technical issue of any sort. They've one of the best reputations out there. Your moniker and location would suggest that you either work for Aer Lingus or you would like to. Show a small bit more respect for your colleagues. :=

[EISNN]

Thanks for clearing that up HON.

[EI-A330-300]

@A330-300. Why would you say that there was an issue with an engine of the aircraft in YQX and then say that it's most likely not related? You shouldn't even suggest it. I am 100% certain that EI engineers wouldn't put any passengers, crew or aircraft in the air if there was a question mark over any technical issue of any sort. They've one of the best reputations out there. Your moniker and location would suggest that you either work for Aer Lingus or you would like to. Show a small bit more respect for your colleagues. :=


I know for a fact EI wouldn't do that but there was an issue with one of the engines recently which would of being fixed and the aircarft would of being across the pound a few times since this and it could of being the enigne issue

Faults can happon more than once..

[EISNN]

You know for a 'fact' - Good I'm glad you do. Yes faults I'm sure happen more than once I'll give you that. But in this case it wasn't that. But stating it the way you did would suggest to some that maybe EI engineers would only put a 'band aid' on the problem til a later time. Which I know they wouldn't do. As I've said they're considered one of the best maintenance engineering teams in the business. Do you see where I'm coming from with this?

[DannyKelly22]

EI engineers both sides of the pond definately take maintenance and faults seriously, no matter how big or small the problem is. I have been on the receiving end of this on a few occassions when i worked for them at JFK, if they can't replace the part there n then, simple their either cancel the flight or charter in another airline to operate on behalf of them, under no uncertain circumstances would an EI engineer allow that aircraft to leave the ground with a problem. Ive seen problems as small as a few seat covers needing replaced being a reason for delaying the flight when we ran out of stock of them at the airport and further supplies were sourced from Jerhico N America Head Office. As EISNN said they have probably the best reputation or one of the best reputations in the industry for maintenance and safety. Hate when people just suggest its a maintenance issue because a flight has diverted, obviously there are other many factors other than maintenance that could cause a diversion, in this case its medical related.

[Idontpaymydebts]

Danny, perhaps you should have a look on the spectators forum regarding a near CFIT and stall before you go saying how much they regard safety.

[CONAIR11]

Hey Danny. Do you know what an MEL is?

[Bearcat]

A330 300 your posts re MAINT issues are pure and utter waffle/drivel. Diversion due medical .....period. Pity re your call sign.:uhoh:

[rallye parachute]

CFIT and stall have nothing to do with Engineering!!

A post by a new member referring to 2 seperate incidents they read about on another forum, which has subsequently disappeared containing no facts what so ever:ugh:

Only facts are the guy posted to a forum.

[dublinaviator]

lol PPRuNe at its best people...

[j636]

Was a medical emergency with 2 pax - crew out of hours - simple.


Reading else where that one passenger had an asthma attack and aircraft was not going to divert but then another passengers said her recently installed boob implants had burst so they had to divert.

I also think you are taking EI-A330-300 post out of context and making a big deal out of it when there is no need to.

[DannyKelly22]

Conair - a MEL is a Minimum Equipment List, Y do you ask? I was simple stating that they had one of the best maintenance track records in the industry with their engineers being highly respected by other major airlines. Until it is reported that it was infact a technical diversion why say it was one when blaintly obvious it was just a medical diversion.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Booked DUB-PMI going on 7 July and returning on 14 July about 6 weeks ago.

Got an e-mail recently saying that the flight number had changed to EI740 insted of EI738 with the same departure times and the return from EI739 to EI741.

Then I checked there website and they have:
EI738 DUB 18.40 - PMI 22.20
EI740 DUB 18.40 - PMI 22.20

EI739 PMI 23.00 - DUB 00.50
EI741 PMI 23.00 - DUB 00.50

Why move me when the flights are at the same time or do they plane on just changing flight numbers.

[DannyKelly22]

It's simply a courtesy message, I'm sure some airlines wouldn't do this but some people go to the airport and look up flights by flight number for their departure, especially as some destinations have say 2 flights within a short space of time, so it stops confusion and means passengers have no excuse if they are late checking in or late to their departure gate, this way EI have passed the info onto the PAX so it's not EI.s fault if your late because you had the wrong flight number. I see your point but I also see why they did it. Believe me, from experience those pax arriving late to both gates and check in will use any excuse in the dictionary, some of them are so unbelievable and u know they are untrue u try your best to maybe get them on the flight or accommodate them as best as possible because of such a legiondary excuse and just for making you laugh. Half the time if they don't get on they will turn round and say it was worth a ret making up that excuse.

[Jamie2k9]

EI738 DUB 18.40 - PMI 22.20
EI740 DUB 18.40 - PMI 22.20

EI739 PMI 23.00 - DUB 00.50
EI741 PMI 23.00 - DUB 00.50


Both flights will be operating with EI740/1 starting on 23 June - 16 September, thats the only time they can operate at, they had to move another flight and cancel the planned increase on another route to fit in the extra PMI. There DUB schedule is looking very full.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Storm ahead for Aer Lingus as US crews seek parity - The Irish Times - Fri, Jan 27, 2012 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0127/1224310800274.html)

[Cyrano]

Interesting report on FlightglobalPro this afternoon based on an interview with Stephen Kavanagh of EI.

It's subscription content so I won't cut and paste, but the key points:


Aer Lingus is the process of deciding whether it will go for the Airbus A320neo or Boeing 737-9 Max to modernise its SH fleet. Decision timescale is 12-18 months. Despite the existing all-Airbus fleet, they are open to talking to Boeing. [He would say that, wouldn't he... :cool:]

EI plans to own more of its fleet directly, as it has €1bn of gross cash on the balance sheet. Hence for example the plan is that half the A350-900s on order will be paid for in cash and half will be leased.

Iberia A319s leased from RBS: 2 aircraft expected by 3Q2012, others by 3Q2013.

Recently returned some A320/A321 to ILFC at the end of their leases, and completed some sale and leasebacks with short leaseback terms. One A320 is currently offered for sale. They want to keep the fleet size at 36 and the aircraft for sale is the 37th.

[DollarBill]

While I understand that EI have to publicly keep their options open I just cant see the B737MAX being in a strong position for them. They have just spent the last decade converting from mostly B737 to all A320 family, and now dangle the idea that they may switch back 5-7 years from now? And this just after they would be taking delivery of their A359's? And after the A320NEO has been in service.


In relation to the story about the US based EI cabin crew- didn't they know what they were signing up for? Can anyone remember the uproar from the UA staff as 'their' jobs were being stolen from them? I wonder what the margins are on the route, could something like this make it non-viable in its current J/V form?

[Bearcat]

If I was a betting man, Id have a wager that AL will make money out of the 350 orders by flogging them on, trade their current 330s for new ones as part of the deal. I think the company is too small to expand on it's long haul selection and the immigrant routes will be their main stay for the foreseeable future being Boston, JFK, ORD.
West coast, forget it.....cost a fortune to run unless a daily and the yields aren't there to justify a 365 operation.

This is all on the premise that the company's status quo re ownership. This may dramatically change in the next 12 months with the government making noises that heathrow slots are not as strategic anymore and the governments desire to imminently address the general pension problem that is a noose around its neck.

[MCDU2]

West coast, forget it.....cost a fortune to run unless a daily and the yields aren't there to justify a 365 operation.I think the yields aren't there because our branding is poor. We only seem to be able to attract Irish travellers. You see this time and again. EK are overbooked into and out of DUB, United/Continental can fly from IAD to DUB, the yanks can make Shannon work and the Washington "success" story is down to the yanks booking on united.com. I can assure you they have no idea that a green aeroplane is going to fly them until they front up to the gate. The sad reality as has been seen in LGW is that people just don't know about AL nor seem to wish to.

Entry into one of the alliances may well have helped but Mueller doesn't seem to want to. Unfortunately I see no growth on the medium/long haul side of the business and we might even get pushed out altogether by the bigger players.

As an aside the impact that the likes of EK will have on the LHR route will be interesting to see over time as people head to Dubai to connect and avoid the high UK taxes.

[EI-BUD]

our branding is poor


This is a key challenge for any airlines (especially if you are not Ryanair or Easyjet). How to market the other end of the route that is not Ireland/UK, not easy to do. Without the scale of operations that FR has around Europe it is difficult to pitch for the business to potential customers, despite how keenly priced it may be (ie for Aer Lingus), simply so difficult to market the audience in a meaningful way outside of Ireland.


We only seem to be able to attract Irish travellers


I travel to Spanish inlaws a lot, recently when waiting for my flight Alicante/Belfast, 2 flights (FR + EI) were leaving for Dublin. I noticed as I was waiting that FR seemed to have a lot more european customers than Irish and it appeared that EI was attracting a lot of Irish and not so many Spaniards. Ryanair have such an advantage in that the natives in any of the European countries will check Ryanair for flights and will often book with them without evening having checked other smaller companies, leads to another interesting point, FR dont always need to be cheap to attract the customer as often as far as many can see there are no others on may routes Ie if they dont check EI, and other carriers operating.

I suppose its the result of the move away from travel agents and the companies who have really embraced and exploited deregulations enjoy other benefits that smaller rivals cant.


EI-BUD

[Skipness One Echo]

our branding is poor

Surely though United can make both Dulles and Newark work due to a wealth of onward connections? The same goes for Emirates and the other US network carriers, leaving Aer Lingus with no Alliance partners mopping up seasonal point to point?

[dublinaviator]

While I understand that EI have to publicly keep their options open I just cant see the B737MAX being in a strong position for them. They have just spent the last decade converting from mostly B737 to all A320 family, and now dangle the idea that they may switch back 5-7 years from now? And this just after they would be taking delivery of their A359's? And after the A320NEO has been in service.

They switched to an all-Airbus fleet to save costs. If Boeing can offer Aer Lingus an aircraft that has reduced running and operating costs compared to the A32X fleet, and at a good price, then Aer Lingus will buy it. Its as simple as that.

Entry into one of the alliances may well have helped but Mueller doesn't seem to want to.

The reason they've decided not to fully join an alliance is because the costs involved outweigh the few benefits Aer Lingus would get from full membership. The only area Aer Lingus would really gain any benefit from being in an alliance is being part of one of the joint ventures. But apparently Aer Lingus are in discussions now to join one of the transatlantic joint ventures as a non-member, so expect a decision on that in the next few months.

[airbourne]

Sitting in my armchair I must express my disappointment at the lack of success of EI on some of their routes. Leaving aside the SH routes I look to the LH routes.

2 flights a day to JFK from DUB. No brainer, that works. But why was EWR dropped? Although that is a major CO hub it allowed them to come in and mop up some nice traffic from people that do not want to use JFK. Albeit on a 757, this is something that CO have done quite well is use the 757 on the thinner routes.

As has been said, its the paddy routes and Orlando. The thing that gets to me is the lack of the major selling point of DUB and SHN and that is the immigration! Like, how great is that, get off the aircraft, get bags and go! No long lines at the end of a 7-10 hour flight! I would sell the bejaysus out of that 'perk'.

In terms of selling the EI brand, all you have to do is look at the sponsorship of things in Ireland and the UK by airlines. Oh great, EI can sponsor the Capital London breakfast show for the LGW launch, but Emirates will sponsor a premier football team! I feel when I look at Aer Lingus, its all about the short game with them. If it is not an instant hit, they pull it. Start small, build and develop. Sometimes I wonder is the planning done with a blindfold and a pin the tail on the donkey?????

Do you remember the excitement last year when there was talk of a return to the west coast? There was interest alright, but not from EI. Does anyone want to take a bet that we might get UA operating a SFO-DUB route in 2012/3. What is the smallest aircraft type in UA's fleet that could do a non stop service and turn a few quid?

Who am I? Im a nobody except an aerosexual with a PPL, and even I can glance at the LH product and wonder aloud why EI cannot make routes work with passengers, and cargo alike. I wonder aloud why 2 airlines can fly to the UAE and make money and EI was in there before them and they couldnt make it work and pulled out.

Final point that someone pointed out was the american carriers and their onward connections. Does the EI/Jet Blue alliance not work well enough?

[EI-A330-300]

Jan passenger numbers up 5.8% to 563,000

EI Regional - up 26% to 53,000

Short Haul - up 6.2% to 514,000

Long Haul - up 2.1% to 49,000

Short Haul LF up 2% to 62.5% - Short Haul capacity increased by 4.6%
Long Haul LF down 3.1% to 61.8% - Long Haul capacity increased by 8%

[PPRuNeUser0176]

From 2012 Aer Lingus monthly traffic stats will represent the amount of passengers that actually fly and not the amount of booked passengers.

[dublinaviator]

In terms of selling the EI brand, all you have to do is look at the sponsorship of things in Ireland and the UK by airlines. Oh great, EI can sponsor the Capital London breakfast show for the LGW launch, but Emirates will sponsor a premier football team! I feel when I look at Aer Lingus, its all about the short game with them. If it is not an instant hit, they pull it. Start small, build and develop. Sometimes I wonder is the planning done with a blindfold and a pin the tail on the donkey?????

Airlines don't sponsor events/teams/venues for the sake of it, they do it to increase brand awareness and advertise their business. Aer Lingus clearly saw a need to do so with their LGW route and sponsored the Capital FM breakfast show which has been a huge success for them. Similarly they sponsored the Belfast Giants so as to increase their brand awareness in the North. And to advertise their business product, they've sponsored the breakfast with Ivan & Chris show on Newstalk.

Look at Etihad, they knew they had to promote their brand here as they were virtually unknown when they first started their Abu Dhabi route and what did they do? They became the main sponsor of the hurling championship. Their CEO being a hurling man probably helped as well, but they didn't just sponsor it for no reason. Aer Lingus don't need to do this because their brand is already very well known in Ireland.

Do you remember the excitement last year when there was talk of a return to the west coast? There was interest alright, but not from EI. Does anyone want to take a bet that we might get UA operating a SFO-DUB route in 2012/3. What is the smallest aircraft type in UA's fleet that could do a non stop service and turn a few quid?

There may well be a lot of interest in the route, but theres not enough people willing to pay the necessary fares in order for a west coast route to be profitable. Thats the only thing holding Aer Lingus back, the market is clearly there, but the yields aren't.

[Andrew R]

Sorry if this is a silly question but what sort of routes can we expect the A319s operate on? Domestic UK and Ireland routes? Where can we expect the A319s to be based at?

[dublinaviator]

Sorry if this is a silly question but what sort of routes can we expect the A319s operate on? Domestic UK and Ireland routes? Where can we expect the A319s to be based at?

Theres no such thing as "domestic UK and Ireland routes", they're 2 different countries.

The first 2 A319s are to be based in Belfast AFAIK. Whether they'll be used on the Heathrow route depends on whether Aer Lingus retain an A320 based in BFS, otherwise the A319s will be operating all BFS routes.

[mikkie4]

how about southend?could that work?

[Andrew R]

Apologies, I sort of meant routes like Belfast - Heathrow, Dublin - Heathrow, Dublin - Manchester etc etc. Where will the Belfast A320s be going?

Thanks very much.

[Jamie2k9]

Sorry if this is a silly question but what sort of routes can we expect the A319s operate on? Domestic UK and Ireland routes? Where can we expect the A319s to be based at?
Apologies, I sort of meant routes like Belfast - Heathrow, Dublin - Heathrow, Dublin - Manchester etc etc. Where will the Belfast A320s be going?
Thanks very much.


The A319 will be operating all routes from BFS (AGP,FAO,ALC,BCN,LHR) except ACE,TFS and LPA which will be A320. A few of the A319 routes will be an A320 on certain days but mainly A319.

2 A320 have being retuned to leasor
1 A320 stored and for sale.

[Tom the Tenor]

What A320 aircraft is stored and is for sale?

Thanks.

[Cyrano]

What A320 aircraft is stored and is for sale?

Thanks.

If we are to believe ACAS, that would be MSN1242, their oldest A320 (2000 vintage): EI-CVA.

[brian_dromey]

[Theres no such thing as "domestic UK and Ireland routes", they're 2 different countries.

In this context I believe that the domestic related to the UK, as in BFS-LHR but not to Ireland, of which EI operates exactly zero domestic routes. Maybe to avoid confusion he should have said "routes within the British Isles" although, IIRC this has also upset a poster in the past, despite this being a recognised geo-political reference to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland.
As an aside, if RE brands all its flights as EI, as is rumoured, EI will once again serve a domestic Irish route in KIR-DUB, if only in name.

As it stands at the moment the A319s are being confined to the BFS base, probably to simplify their introduction. As more join Im sure they will be seen across the network. I think we might see one or even two in ORK for the winter, taking the base back to four based aircraft year round. If EI were really feeling adventurous NOC might be an option to base an aircraft. It seems pretty much any route one fancies can operate from NOC, including trasatlantics!

[DollarBill]

"Maybe to avoid confusion he should have said "routes within the British Isles" although, IIRC this has also upset a poster in the past, despite this being a recognised geo-political reference to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland"

This always gets me. I have a mate who dislikes 'British Isles' as a term. However 'British' actually predates all the current geo-political entities we know. The population of the isles were called Pretani over 2000 years ago, (Noted on several Greek maps) this word morphed into Bretani sometime post-Roman Empire. The native Britons were displaced by the Angles, Gaels, Saxons, Danes from the 6th to 11th century. (As were the Picts) So in fact the only remaining 'British' regions of the Isles are Wales and Cornwall. What is now Strathclyde was the last remaining kingdom of the Britons up until the 10th century.

Incidently Scotland is called that after the Scotti displaced the native Britons and Picts. The Scotti were the Gaelic Irish from the Kingdom of Dalriada (NE Irish coast)

[peacock1]

Greetings from Cork.

NOT on a "British" isle.

Clear ?

[NorthernCounties]

I think it's clear that Irish people (myself included) find the term "British Isles" offensive it can be inferred that it refers to some form of ownership. For that reason its a term best avoided, which the BBC even now do referring to the islands of Britain and Ireland as "these islands", I don't personally think this term is great either, but using it ensures no possible animosity.

[peacock1]

Correct.

I first used that term "these Islands" as a 17 year old interviewee for an airline job.

Could this be the start of a consensus on this issue ?

[Skipness One Echo]

So we can have South America renamed in case anyone thinks it's an American colony? Greetings from London, less "British" than Cork nowadays. I have never heard the term "these islands" in my life, bit I will look out. Honestly, no one on this side thinks Ireland ought to be British, and we love you all more than you dare admit......

[Cazza_fly]

So we can have South America renamed in case anyone thinks it's an American colony? Greetings from London, less "British" than Cork nowadays. I have never heard the term "these islands" in my life, bit I will look out. Honestly, no one on this side thinks Ireland ought to be British, and we love you all more than you dare admit......

So very very true. Originally from Ireland, it does not bother me in the slightest the use of ''British Isles'' and I know it is NOT referring to any individule country as being owned by Great Britain just a geographical area... Come on now guys we are the closest country friends with each other... just make sure on the next Eurovision we both give each other the usual 12points :8

Anyway shall we go back to Aer Lingus :ok:

[dublinaviator]

Maybe to avoid confusion he should have said "routes within the British Isles" although, IIRC this has also upset a poster in the past, despite this being a recognised geo-political reference to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland.

Its not recognised in Ireland, where the term has been removed from the education system and is not used by the Irish government (http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/D/0606/D.0606.200509280360.html).

Ireland is not part of any 'British Isles' (regardless of what wikipedia says:rolleyes:)which itself is an antiquated and outdated term that predates Irish independence and as such does not reflect the current political situation. If you want to refer to the 2 islands, just say 'Britain & Ireland', simples...

So very very true. Originally from Ireland, it does not bother me in the slightest the use of ''British Isles'' and I know it is NOT referring to any individule country as being owned by Great Britain just a geographical area...

Well as someone actually living in Ireland, I can say most people do find it offensive.

[Cazza_fly]

Well as someone actually living in Ireland, I can say most people do find it offensive.

Get over it. It won't do any good taking offence from it....

Sorry if it's been mentioned before but, as for Aer Lingus and the A319s. Are these aircraft still due to only operate from the end of the summer schedule W12/13?

[dublinaviator]

Get over it. It won't do any good taking offence from it....

Or how about you just stop using it? :ok:

[dublinaviator]

In fact, better yet, I hereby declare on behalf of the Irish nation that the islands of Britain & Ireland are now known as 'the Irish Isles'.

And if the Brits take offense to it, well as Cazza_fly says, they can "get over it". :)

Now... I believe we were discussing flights operated by Aer Lingus within the Irish Isles?

[Cazza_fly]

In fact, better yet, I hereby declare on behalf of the Irish nation that the islands of Britain & Ireland are now known as 'the Irish Isles'.


Doesn't bother me none :ok:

Im sure most Brits would laugh it off anyway...

Now... I believe we were discussing flights operated by Aer Lingus within the Irish Isles?

and yep... back to the discussion :eek:

[BFS101]

Lord be.... By the sounds of it you guy's should live in Northern Ireland!!!

So anyway... With the A319 basing at BFS, do you think that maybe routes like Rome, and dare I say Munich return for winter 12/13?? Would the slightly smaller aircraft makes these routes, or others, viable rather than the usual plethora of bucket and spade destinations??

[DannyKelly22]

was looking through some old files and found some photos of when I worked at JFK for Aer Lingus as PAX agent a few years back. Thought I'd share them and also a pic of EI-ORD dismantled. EI ORD scrapped. V Sad Day | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/76425411@N06/6856726575/in/photostream)

[Skipness One Echo]

Wow I feel old, I remember EI-ORD when she was delivered. Where is this photo taken?

[Bearcat]

I remember it on the production line in Toulouse ! Yikes

[Stevek]

Rumours floating around that Aer Lingus are to move their European flights back in to T1. Anyone care to divulge some info?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Then why keep T2 open?

Would find it hard to believe that they would do it.

[racedo]

EI

Why bother building in the 1st place is a better question.....

[EI-A330-300]

Becasue it was needed but it could of being built a lot cheeper and better designed. Have heard nothing about moving back to T1 but it could just be more flights from Pier B.

[johnrizzo2000]

After moving most of their operations to T2, and the fact they're now using CBP in T2, they won't be moving back to T1. Maybe some flight will move to Pier B to relieve early morning congestion, as T2 is effectively a cul de sac which causes delays.

[Stevek]

I initially heard it was just some flights from B but recently I've heard it'll be more substantial.

[dublinaviator]

I initially heard it was just some flights from B but recently I've heard it'll be more substantial.

Whoever told you that is talkin out of their arse. Aer Lingus have been using Pier B regularly since T2 opened, as there are not always enough gates on Pier E, but check-in etc. is always done from T2 regardless.

There's no difference in charges between T1 and T2, so there's no reason why Aer Lingus would switch from T2 to T1.

[DannyKelly22]

doesnt make sense, why would they move a substantial amount of flights back to T1 when there is no difference in charges and the have their lounge at T2. Just another pointless rumour. everyone already knows that there are morning flights that depart from Pier B and evening flights that arrive at pier B due to space restrictions in the morning.

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus use Peri B for morning departures and night arrivals. Next summer as far as I know there will be more flights using Pier B up until lunchtime on certain days.

Some factors are the 11.00 to BOS will start to use USPC from 25 March, EK 777 from 1 July and extra Aer Lingus flights next summer.

My figures suggest approx 40 extra weekly flights during the peak summer months (May-Sep).

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Got a call from Aer Lingus about my flights a few days ago apologized for the problems experienced and all the changes they had to make, they said there was a booking system error and she said we have had to add extra flights because flights over the season as bookings are high and June-July flights are already 90% full.

[Jack1985]

Got a call from Aer Lingus about my flights a few days ago apologized for the problems experienced and all the changes they had to make, they said there was a booking system error and she said we have had to add extra flights because flights over the season as bookings are high and June-July flights are already 90% full.

Where are these ''flights'' going to? :rolleyes:

[isayoldchap]

My guess is that these flights will be going nowhere if Aer Lingus management, and I use that term "management " loosely, try to take the pilots fixed pattern roster off them. Interesting times ahead .

[johnrizzo2000]

Did the EI agent say what flights they're adding? I thought the fleet for the summer was fully utilised. It's very encouraging if summer flights are 80/90% full already

[MidlandDeltic]

There's no difference in charges between T1 and T2, so there's no reason why Aer Lingus would switch from T2 to T1.

This is bizarre. Why not? If airbridges etc have a commercial value to the airlines (which I don't necessarily believe, but some seem to think so); if T1 is so bad and unliked by costomers and T2 is better and more attractive to them; if the debt on T2 needs repaying; then DAA should be charging more for their use.

Not doing so implies that the low cost users are subsidizing the higher value travellers. It also implies that the airlines are not actually that impressed with the facilities on offer in T2 over those in T1, and higher charges would have meant the white elelphant would have been an even bigger white elephant as airlines stayed put.

MD

[Noxegon]

I believe that there is a separate charge for air bridge use regardless of which terminal is used.

[dublinaviator]

This is bizarre. Why not? If airbridges etc have a commercial value to the airlines (which I don't necessarily believe, but some seem to think so); if T1 is so bad and unliked by costomers and T2 is better and more attractive to them; if the debt on T2 needs repaying; then DAA should be charging more for their use.

Not doing so implies that the low cost users are subsidizing the higher value travellers. It also implies that the airlines are not actually that impressed with the facilities on offer in T2 over those in T1, and higher charges would have meant the white elelphant would have been an even bigger white elephant as airlines stayed put.

MD

This was essentially Ryanair's arguement, i.e. they won't be using T2 so why should they have to pay for it. But it was part of the deal with Aer Lingus and some of the US airlines who threatened not to move to T2 unless charges remained the same for both terminals. And you can see their side of the arguement as well, as it would've been uncompetitive for them to operate from T2 with higher charges while competing airlines were saving money operating from T1.

[MidlandDeltic]

This was essentially Ryanair's arguement, i.e. they won't be using T2 so why should they have to pay for it. But it was part of the deal with Aer Lingus and some of the US airlines who threatened not to move to T2 unless charges remained the same for both terminals. And you can see their side of the arguement as well, as it would've been uncompetitive for them to operate from T2 with higher charges while competing airlines were saving money operating from T1. This vindicates my comments. Effectively, DAA built something that the airlines did not feel was attractive enough in terms of additional facilities and passenger appeal to be worth extra paying for. If T2 is so much better than T1, then pax would be willing to pay a small amount extra to use it - operating out of T2 would be a sellling point for the airlines. Clearly the airlines don't think that is the case. Therefore, T2 could have been significantly down-specced, made more affordable and been less of a burden on DAA.

It follws therefore that the airlines using T1 ARE subsidising those using T2, as the investment in T1 is nothing compared to the cost of T2. Aer Lingus being subsidsed by Ryanair - who'd have thought it!

MD

[dublinaviator]

This vindicates my comments. Effectively, DAA built something that the airlines did not feel was attractive enough in terms of additional facilities and passenger appeal to be worth extra paying for. If T2 is so much better than T1, then pax would be willing to pay a small amount extra to use it - operating out of T2 would be a sellling point for the airlines. Clearly the airlines don't think that is the case. Therefore, T2 could have been significantly down-specced, made more affordable and been less of a burden on DAA.

It follws therefore that the airlines using T1 ARE subsidising those using T2, as the investment in T1 is nothing compared to the cost of T2. Aer Lingus being subsidsed by Ryanair - who'd have thought it!

MD

If T2 was the Taj Mahal, I don't think Irish people would pay extra to use it. That's the Irish market summed up - people care about facilities but want the cheap fare above everything else. So its not that T2 isn't better than T1, it is, its just that the elasticity of the Irish market means people will jump ship just to get the cheapest fare, no matter how good or bad the facilities are.

The irony is though had the DAA not built T2 and just expanded T1, they would've gotten a lot of abuse off the public about sub-par facilities. Its just a case of the public wanting the best facility available but not wanting to pay for it.

[Sober Lark]

We became so accustomed to the consequences of down-specing projects in the past (runway length, DART connection etc) that its refreshing to see T2 catering for present and future development needs.

T2 is Clongowes. T1 is shiny tracksuits.

[ayroplain]

T2 is Clongowes. T1 is shiny tracksuits.

You're not suggesting that Aer Lingus passengers are snobs, are you?:p

[Noxegon]

When compared to Ryanair passengers...? :)

[ayroplain]

When compared to Ryanair passengers
Well, now, let me see, who else uses T1? BMI, Lufty, CityJet/Air France/Turkish, etc. Not sure about the shiny tracksuits ;)

The Irish Government has this morning reasserted its intention to dispose of its share in EI but not while the share price is so low which may be good news for EI since the share price is not going up to an acceptable level any time soon. Maybe the Govt. will do a deal with MOL. You pull out of EI and we'll ditch the DAA out of DUB. That way, everybody wins.

[airbourne]

Does EI have any extra LH capacity?

[MidlandDeltic]

Maybe the Govt. will do a deal with MOL. You pull out of EI ....

Won't work - it would depress the share price even further. FR own 30% or so, the government 25%. The effect on any company's share price of 55% of the share capital becoming available would be catastrophic.

The government are trying to sound convincing that there won't be a fire sale of assets (AL, ESB, Bord Gais, Coillte etc) but in practice with the state of the economy that is what is will become. Foreign private and public sector companies are the only ones who'll benefit. As Luke Kelly quoted, "For What Died the Sons of Roisín?"

MD

[Steviec9]

BBC News - Aer Lingus profits from cost-cutting work (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17188458)

[Cyrano]

Flightglobal reports an interesting interview with Stephen Kavanagh, EI CCO, following on from today's EI results announcement.

To summarise:

Aer Lingus is "very keen to see" whether the Airbus A321neo or Boeing 737-9 Max will offer the range needed for some of its transatlantic services.

If so, the carrier could order up to five re-engined narrowbodies to serve the USA's east coast as part of a larger short-haul fleet renewal programme.

[Kavanagh] said the carrier is looking at the Neo and Max families. If the aircraft do offer sufficient range, Aer Lingus could order "up to five" re-engined narrowbodies for this mission, to complement the widebody services. This would not affect Aer Lingus's existing order for nine Airbus A350s.

Aer Lingus's evaluation of the Neo and Max families is also focused on eventually replacing its short-haul fleet of 36 A320s, said Kavanagh.

They expect to complete evaluations and start manufacturer negotiations within 12 months.

[840]

It certainly makes sense for Aer Lingus.

Narrowbodies make sense for a number of routes ex-Dublin and would be of huge advantage to Shannon services or if they were ever to launch trnsatlantic from Cork. It makes particular sense in the last case as they can still keep a uniform fleet in Cork.

A cynic might suggest that Aer Lingus already know the answer to the question, that one works and one doesn't and that they will use this to drive down the cost of the one that doesn't.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Passenger bookings for 2012 are good according to Aer Lingus but Long Haul is doing particually well on forword bookings.

[EI-A330-300]

EI CEO says A350 will most lightly not enter service in 2015 because of further delays with Airbus. The first was scheduled for 2014 and then pushed back to early 2015. Talks about a new delivery schedule to take place soon.

Why get 9 A350 when you want the A321NEO on JFK and BOSl. 9 seems way to much 4 is more ideal.

Long Haul business class is becoming to small which is why an announcement about increased long-haul premium capacity.will be made soon.

[Aisle2c]

Is there any prospect of a USA seat sale for post June 15 period ? We are thinking about going to the US in late June, and it would be a pity to book and then miss out on a sale.

[Tom the Tenor]

What about using Cork - Heathrow - U.S or Cork - Amsterdam - U.S?

Why would you want to use Dublin or snn when you can begin your journey from your own airport? It beats me to be supporting other competitor airports but that's just my opinion.

Either way, have a good holiday.

[brian_dromey]

I think it depends on how EI want to structure their medium haul routes post 2015. It has a unique mix of routes, BOS is highly seasonal and with weak-ish front cabin demand, but overall good volumes. JFK and ORD would be the year-round strong routes, with good demand in both cabins. MCO, again highly seasonal. I don't see the NEO or MAX being of much use in DUB, unless they want to use them to introduce some daytime eastbound departures from NYC.

I think the NEO & MAX should be able to serve BOS & JFK just fine, anything else would be a stretch and take a massive hit on cargo as well, so it would have limited uses out of DUB. So where would EI use 5 NEOs?

My thoughts would be:
DUB-YYZ/YUL
Daytime NYC-DUB, possible DUB-EWR, possibly DUB-IAD. -unlikely unless EI join STAR or STAR ATI
SNN-BOS - almost certain
SNN-JFK - almost certain
SNN-ORD - an outside possibility, if the range would work
ORK-NYC/BOS - probably more likely than SNN-ORD or a daytime EWR-DUB.
BFS-NYC/YYZ/BOS - again a possibility.

Frankly, 5 seems a bit on the low side, I could see 2x SNN (NYC, BOS, ORD) , 1x ORK (JFK, BOS), 1x BFS (BOS, YYZ), 1x DUB (EWR/daytime JFK).

[Aisle2c]

What about using Cork - Heathrow - U.S or Cork - Amsterdam - U.S?

Why would you want to use Dublin or snn when you can begin your journey from your own airport? It beats me to be supporting other competitor airports but that's just my opinion.

Either way, have a good holiday.


Thanks Tom.

Travelling with a 6 year old, so we want as little hassle as possible. Doing the pre-immigration on this side is appealing. As well as that I like to support Aer Lingus whenever possible.

[stab3.5up]

Omg wots the obsession with airlingus and crossing the atlantic ocean!!!!!!!!! Take the tunnel vision goggles off guys. thrers a whole world of out there to explore. think outside the box. ei should be looking at emerging markets too. use the new fangled longer range a/c to look at africa, the ex soviet stans, china, hongkong, hokiday routes like sri lanka goa etc.

[Tom the Tenor]

I agree, what about Dublin - Lagos and Dublin - Buenos Aires for the A350s!

It is funny that you mentioned Goa - I was just on about Goa in an email to a top kiddie in one of the UK holiday companies.

That's telepathy for you!

[Just a spotter]

US Airways wants the A321neo for T/A to replace their 757's.

US Airways pushes for A321neo to have flight range for Europe and Hawaii (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-airways-pushes-for-a321neo-to-have-flight-range-for-europe-and-355290/)

If it has the legs and the economics, then there could be a nice market for Airbus out there.

JAS

[TSR2]

That article is almost 12 months old.

[johnrizzo2000]

''Omg wots the obsession with airlingus and crossing the atlantic ocean!!!!!!!!! Take the tunnel vision goggles off guys. thrers a whole world of out there to explore. think outside the box. ei should be looking at emerging markets too. use the new fangled longer range a/c to look at africa, the ex soviet stans, china, hongkong, hokiday routes like sri lanka goa etc.''

The obsession with Aer Lingus and transatlantic routes, is the fact that EI makes money from operating these services. There is also a decent sized market for Ireland-USA due to business and cultural ties. Aer Lingus is also trying to leverage its position in Europe to operate a hub for Europe-USA/USA-Europe traffic

''Thinking outside the box'' was left in the days of the Celtic Tiger. There is a whole world out there to explore, but there are plenty of airlines fighting hard for this traffic. Emirates and Etihad are strong competitors and offer cheap fares to China, Hong Kong etc, which would eliminate any chance of Aer Lingus operating direct services to the East. Aer Lingus have said they are happy to feed BA and KL/AF via their hubs. If this makes them money, this is what should be done.

Sri Lanka and Goa are heavily leisure orientated routes, and would never work from Ireland. UK-Goa routes are operated by Monarch on a charter basis only.

[DollarBill]

Omg wots the obsession with airlingus and crossing the atlantic ocean!!!!!!!!! Take the tunnel vision goggles off guys....................ei should be looking at emerging markets too. use the new fangled longer range a/c to look at africa, the ex soviet stans, china, hongkong, hokiday routes like sri lanka goa etc.

A very easy statement to type but a possible revenue debacle in operation.

EI currently have 7 A330, you are suggesting they take 1 of this (14% of the fleet) and just launch a route to 'an emerging market' Where is the market presence? Where is the existing customer base? If it is there,how do EI get them to switch carriers?How long can EI sustain losses just to 'explore the world'. Remember if EI want to offer daily service to such longhaul destination they would have to use 2-3 aircraft, even if they source 3 more A330 to do so they have 30% of their fleet concentrated on 1-2 risky new routes with no guarantee of profit.

I agree that the reliance on T/A traffic by EI is not a good thing, however it is hard to launch longhaul routes for a small airline as the risks are so much bigger.

Lets pretend we are Emirates for example, they have 169 aircraft (wikipedia) With such a large fleet and network they could make a provision that up to 5% of their routes can be 'under development' or 'growing'. Euphemisms for not yet profitable. EK (and other large airlines) have the network momentum to absorb some losses. EI cannot do this, they absolutely require all longhaul aircraft to operate on profitable routes all year round. Just look at how they restricted ops ex-SNN over the last 14 months.Look at how reticent they are to return to West Coast ops, they think it is marginal so will not take the risk.

Now personally I think EI are being too cautious (yesterdays positive 2011 results were presented in quite a negative pessimistic manner) but I recognise the reasoning behind this caution. I don't have to like it though.

[airbourne]

EI is mostly cautious in where it opens routes. Then again, they open and close without having the marketing in place to do it right. The best example I can point to is the DUB-DXB route. Although it was started in the summer, who in their right mind would want to travel to DXB in 45 degree heat. So after a short while the route was pulled. Now we have both Emirates and Etihad going to that part of the world and both enjoying great success with it.

All you have to do is look at the fantastic results Continental had with opening routes to Europe using the 757. It is very possible that EI could replicate that success with the A321NEO.

DUB-YUL
DUB-YYZ
DUB-YOW
DUB-PHL
DUB-IAD
DUB-BWI
DUB-PTT
SNN-YUL
SNN-YYZ
SNN-JFK
SNN-EWR
SNN-BWI

So many options. If that market was that saturated, why did DL start JFK-DUB? Why did AA start ORD-DUB? Why did UA start IAD-DUB?

In my own opinion, EI suffered from a lot of mixed reviews on the TA product. For so long, it was hit and miss what aircraft you would get. But now that the product is uniform and some would say better to what the american carriers offer.

Final question to which I hope someone could answer. Why has Canada never been offered by EI?

[Tooloose]

Good question. Aer lingus served Montreal with B707s in the '60s and 70's. Toronto was served with B747s briefly in !981-82. I am open to correction on this but I think both were discontinued due to a combination of high seasonality and low yield. Prior to the ending of the compulsory Shannon stop, the Canadian authorities would not allow Aer Lingus to operate scheduled services into Toronto as retaliation for Air Canada not being allowed to operate direct into and out of Dublin. The Montreal service operated DUB-SNN- Montreal-ORD. A nice day's work for the crew. The Air Canada Toronto- DUB service of recent years used a very small B767 variant and operated only in June-July- August. For the reasons given by a previous poster this would not make sense for Aer Lingus but it does for Air Canada. Hope that helps.

[Cyrano]

EI is mostly cautious in where it opens routes. Then again, they open and close without having the marketing in place to do it right. The best example I can point to is the DUB-DXB route. Although it was started in the summer, who in their right mind would want to travel to DXB in 45 degree heat. So after a short while the route was pulled. Now we have both Emirates and Etihad going to that part of the world and both enjoying great success with it.

All you have to do is look at the fantastic results Continental had with opening routes to Europe using the 757. It is very possible that EI could replicate that success with the A321NEO.

DUB-YUL
DUB-YYZ
DUB-YOW
DUB-PHL
DUB-IAD
DUB-BWI
DUB-PTT
SNN-YUL
SNN-YYZ
SNN-JFK
SNN-EWR
SNN-BWI

So many options. If that market was that saturated, why did DL start JFK-DUB? Why did AA start ORD-DUB? Why did UA start IAD-DUB?


Isn't the answer fairly obvious?
"Why did DL start JFK-DUB?"
"Why did AA start ORD-DUB?"
"Why did UA start IAD-DUB?"
(I have helpfully coloured the major hubs in blue. ;))

DL, AA, UA, EK and EY can feed connecting traffic to a huge range of destinations across their respective hubs. Aer Lingus, no disrespect at all to them, can essentially feed long haul traffic through DUB to UK points, plus a few Slot 2 European destinations to/from JFK alone thanks to the late afternoon DUB-JFK departure. With all due respect, DUB connecting feed is just not in the same galaxy as any of the above airports, so just because a hub carrier can make one more spoke from their huge hub work doesn't mean that the carrier at the other end could achieve anything like the same success.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Is there any prospect of a USA seat sale for post June 15 period ? We are thinking about going to the US in late June, and it would be a pity to book and then miss out on a sale.


They have a summer sale on now, travel between 1 April - 15 June, book by 9 March but some flights after 15 June are reduced as well

[Bearcat]

I laugh at all these suggestions at far away destinations. The bottom line is it won't work because EIN is too small. To fly to say SIN or back to SFO is a logistic nightmare for crewing. They don't have the resources for heavy crews up front and the flexibility for crew to down time in these places for two days etc. MCO is bad enough re logistics. EIN in my little world will continue to ply the old emigration routes for the foreseeable future as they know it's peaks and troughs and work with these. I also believe that the 350 can will continue to be kicked down the road for the foreseeable future and they will replace 330s with 330s. The 330 has been a life saver for EIN and has proved to be an economical workhorse in peak season. The big question tHough is the thin routes and this is where I do see this as a runner and the 321 neo coming into the fray. I see ORK-JFK/BOS as a runner and SNN in the winter runs happening. It also means they could sample new routes to the east coast with out the massive costs.....regrettably though I also see as a previous poster pointed out the only direction EIN knows for medium haul traffic is crossing the pond. EIN don't do long haul and it will remain so for the foreseeable future unless the company is bought out. If FR takes control of EIN from their track record of rack em, pack em and stack em I believe they will close down EINs current medium haul ops and start afresh with a new independent company....a modern day laker affair.....hmmm:{

[Just a spotter]

If FR takes control of EIN from their track record of rack em, pack em and stack em I believe they will close down EINs current medium haul ops and start afresh with a new independent companyIMHO, if FR did take control of EI then they would close the entire operation lock stock and barrel. EI are just about the only airline FR haven’t been able to 'see off' from an airport and I suspect there would be some very smug smiles in FR HQ if they killed off EI, given that EI did its best to kill FR in its early days and it was only through the intervention of a government minister that FR was thrown a life line.

FR are long past the phase in their growth where they buy airlines to expand. Just look at what happened to Buzz.


As for FR Long Haul …. FR don’t do unions so why purchase a company with a legacy of union power in order to start a new low cost long haul operation? Frankly that makes no sense and doesn't match their business model.

JAS

[Aisle2c]

They have a summer sale on now, travel between 1 April - 15 June, book by 9 March but some flights after 15 June are reduced as well

Yeah, unfortunately (for us), we aren't flying until after june 24th. Would you know, from previous years, is it worth my while holding off a while longer or just biting the bullet now ?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

I would hold off a few more weeks as they always have a summer sale in March. Would think once this offer is over they will have seats reduced after 15 June

[Aisle2c]

Thanks for that, I'll hang on a while longer so.

[Jack1985]

I would hold off a few more weeks as they always have a summer sale in March. Would think once this offer is over they will have seats reduced after 15 June

I would seriously not recommend that in regard to US Travel. Quite the opposite of Europe, Aer Lingus flights to the US especially in July and August don't get much cheaper then €300 each-way inc taxes/charges. My cousins in St Louis come to Cork every July, the 4 of them usually pay upwards of $6k for return flights to Dublin via Chicago with Aer Lingus/United.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Feb passengers up 8.8% to 658,000, strikes last feb a factor but there would of being an overall increase in passenger numbers.

Short Haul - 554,000 up 6.9%
Long HAul - 45,000 up 15.4%
EI regional - 59,000 up 22.9%

LF 67.3 up 1%

[MidlandDeltic]

Rumours in the Irish Times that EI management would prefer trade sale of government shareholding to JetBlue, their current ticketing partner in the US. It also mentions possible agreements with Etihad on ticketing.
Aer Lingus wants US partner to buy State holding - The Irish Times - Mon, Mar 12, 2012 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0312/1224313154997.html)

Speculation from this on Morning Ireland on RTE Radio 1 this morning suggested that until FR agree to sell, the possibility of a trade sale is limited, but that MO'L had rolled back from that position. However, the government would then be in a bind, as over 50% of the shares would be for sale, which would badly depress the share price. A bit of a catch 22 - and of course it would potentially open the company up to an effective takeover by a third party.

My own view is that the government should not have held on to the shares at all - but many EI workers of course live in then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern's constiuency, and he hated being the bad guy. Now, the Troika-induced announcement of an effectively enforced sale at some point means the shares will never realise a decent return. Ironic as in the scheme of things the amounts involved are insignificant.

MD

[Bearcat]

50% of shares between FR, Govt and staff......not ideal spread

[racedo]

Time to say sod it and sell to FR on proviso that he uses SNN / DUB as feeder routes in a LC Transatlantic model.

Given UK govt washes it hands of BMI / IAG then no reason not to.

Unfortunately given the Labour party in Govt there is no chance of it happening.

EU can be kept quiet on basis of referendum coming up as France uses it position to get EU to back off looking at its industries, maybe about time Irish Govt did the same.

[840]

Given that it's been blocked at EU level on competition grounds, it would be foolish to plan to offload the shareholding to Ryanair. It would end up taking longer, even if it's possible and would herald a period of uncertainty that would see the value of the asset decline.

JetBlue or Etihad is a tricky one. JetBlue are more likely to be happy to see Aer Lingus just get on with things, particularly in short-haul and are unlikely to want to invest just to get their hands on Heathrow slots. However, I believe the government are obliged to sell to the highest bidder (once it's OK within EU and US ownership rules, which given the other shareholdings, Etihad should be).

[dublinaviator]

Not surprised by today's report, I've always thought JetBlue was the ideal investor for Aer Lingus. JetBlue acquiring a minority stake in Aer Lingus will allow them to maintain existing relationships with BA, KLM, Aer Arann, and United Airlines, as well as leaving open the possibility for a future commercial tie-up with Etihad. Any attempted takeover would put a question mark over all of these codeshares/joint ventures/partnerships.

My own view is that the government should not have held on to the shares at all - but many EI workers of course live in then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern's constiuency, and he hated being the bad guy. Now, the Troika-induced announcement of an effectively enforced sale at some point means the shares will never realise a decent return. Ironic as in the scheme of things the amounts involved are insignificant.

There was more to it than that. The disaster of eircom's privatisation was still fresh in peoples' memory, so this 25% stake was the government's attempt to reassure the public, who were quite skeptical that an Aer Lingus IPO may go the same way.

Speculation from this on Morning Ireland on RTE Radio 1 this morning suggested that until FR agree to sell, the possibility of a trade sale is limited, but that MO'L had rolled back from that position. However, the government would then be in a bind, as over 50% of the shares would be for sale, which would badly depress the share price. A bit of a catch 22 - and of course it would potentially open the company up to an effective takeover by a third party.

That would effect Ryanair as well though, who will want to recover as much of their investment as possible, so I can't see them selling at the same time as the government.

[racedo]

That would effect Ryanair as well though, who will want to recover as much of their investment as possible, so I can't see them selling at the same time as the government.

Ryanair have written down the value of their stake in Aer Lingus to pretty much nothing so a sale at anything above that is profit.

[dublinaviator]

Ryanair have written down the value of their stake in Aer Lingus to pretty much nothing so a sale at anything above that is profit.

They haven't written it down to nothing, its clearly still worth ~€150 million at current share prices, but they have conceded they'll never get their money back. While they won't get offered anything close to what they paid for their stake, they'd be stupid not to try maximise the value from any sale of their 29% stake.

[MidlandDeltic]

They haven't written it down to nothing, its clearly still worth ~€150 million at current share prices, but they have conceded they'll never get their money back. While they won't get offered anything close to what they paid for their stake, they'd be stupid not to try maximise the value from any sale of their 29% stake.

Indeed, but how are they valued on the balance sheet? If Racedo is correct and they have been written down to a nominal value, then any sale would be a net benefit in the accounts as of now. It is the government who need to / are being forced to sell.

That would effect Ryanair as well though, who will want to recover as much of their investment as possible, so I can't see them selling at the same time as the government.
FR can make the government's position on this easier by selling or harder by not doing so. Review of DAA fees, maybe?

There was more to it than that. The disaster of eircom's privatisation was still fresh in peoples' memory, so this 25% stake was the government's attempt to reassure the public, who were quite skeptical that an Aer Lingus IPO may go the same way.

Eircom flotation was 1999 in very different circumstances; I'm not sure this overly influenced things seven years later. The government did not want a strike to damage the sell off - retaining a stake was the quid pro quo. The prime motivation was parish-pump political.

MD

[840]

I think they can only write it down to fair market value on the balance sheet. Any statement otherwise from O'Leary is likely to be bluster.

Depreciation and profit on assets will end up having impacts on the level of tax paid and putting anything other than fair market value on the balance sheet could be perceived as an attempt to avoid paying tax in a given year.

[racedo]

They haven't written it down to nothing, its clearly still worth ~€150 million at current share prices, but they have conceded they'll never get their money back. While they won't get offered anything close to what they paid for their stake, they'd be stupid not to try maximise the value from any sale of their 29% stake.

Incorrect as they have reduced massively the value of the investment in the accounts, they are legally required to do by Stock Exchange rules and show the loss in their reported profit figures.

Once they reduce it then it has little impact until disposed of or the share price falls below the value held in the books in which case they would show a further loss.

Anybody who buys 50% of Aer Lingus will have to buy FR's stake at the same price at a minimum, that is if they wish to sell, legally they do not have to and nothing can force them to.

[racedo]

I think they can only write it down to fair market value on the balance sheet. Any statement otherwise from O'Leary is likely to be bluster.

Depreciation and profit on assets will end up having impacts on the level of tax paid and putting anything other than fair market value on the balance sheet could be perceived as an attempt to avoid paying tax in a given year.

Don't confuse reported profit with taxable profit. The 2 are completely different and its unlikely Ryanair pay any tax on profits because they also get allowances for investing in aircraft much the same as a manufacturing company get for investing in a new factory..........its why the Tax accountant who explained some of it to me gets highly paid.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Gov have said no talks have being heald with JetBlue.

What is being reported on another site that a code share will happen with EY soon and EI may even operate some flights for EY.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Aer Lingus are now allowing passengers to board flights with a new phone app launched recently. Can be used on all routes from Dublin and Shannon as well as Cork-BRU. The other Cork routes will follow.

[compton3bravo]

Wow! Forgot the world didn´t function before mobile phones etc. (just a sad old git really!)

[Aisle2c]

I would hold off a few more weeks as they always have a summer sale in March. Would think once this offer is over they will have seats reduced after 15 June

Thanks for your help, EI-EIDW, i reckon I've saved nearly €300 by hanging on.

[Steviec9]

Used it for the first time last month LHR-SNN. Very handy and quick. Checked in online and chose my seat (on my iPhone) and within seconds was sent the QR barcode which worked perfectly at security and boarding. Same in reverse at SNN on way home. Advance technology! :D

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Not a good day fro Aer Lingus T/A ops yesterday. Two A330 had to be taken out of service because of a technical fault and the other was struck by a vechicle. As usual media making a big deal out of it. They claim that close to 200 were given Hotel accomadation in SNN as the aircraft was needed in Dublin, however its reported elsewhere that it was a lot less.
Does anyone know if much damage was caused to the aircraft and will they be leasing a 767 to cover if its not in service soon as it the summer season and all A330 are required.

Passengers stranded as aircraft used for other flight - The Irish Times - Fri, Mar 30, 2012 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314099820.html)

[Mlinnie]

Was it the 200 or 300 series that were involved in problems ? And I would hope the A330's would get fixed for the summer season it is still only march :)

[DollarBill]

EI hired in a B767 the next day, (Friday) and the 185 stranded pax made it to BOS.

I was told that the aircraft that was hit by a vehicle was back in service the next day.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

March passengers were 809,000 up 8.2%

Short Haul 663,000 up 5.4%
Long Haul 73,000 up 15.3%
EI regional 73,000 up 30.4%

LF on Short Haul increased 3.4 to 72.6%
LF on Long Haul increased 8.2 to 80%

SH capacity up 1.1%
LH capacity up 4.0%

[dochealth]

Travelling to IAD on mon with EI via JFK. Wondering if the transfer to Jetblue flight takes long/is much hassle?

Thanks

[DannyKelly22]

transfer at JFK is no hassel at all, you will arrive into the B gates if you are travelling on the 105 or 111 where u collect ur bags head out and take a right into the transfer hall, there will be a lovely lady waiting on you there who will give u your boarding pass is you havent already got it at DUB and take ur bags, head upstairs and get the airtrain which goes on track 1 the right hand track and the next stop in T5 Jet Blue, and head in there for you connection, simple as. I only know cos i used to work there for EI. people fret about it but it is no hassel at all. if in doubt as the agent at the transfer hall and she will direct u to the airtrain

[mn06]

Any idea when routes other than BFS-LHR might go on sale for this winter? Most routes from ORK are on sale.

Interestingly BFS-LHR is showing as being back to an A320 when it is an A319 for this summer.

[EI-BUD]

mn06
Bfs Lhr is 320 this summer...!

Ei-bud

[tigger2k8]

EI-BUD, BFS-LHR will rotate between the A319 and A320 during the summer

mn06, in winter it will probably be back down to 2 based aircraft, my guess is the A320 will stay on LHR as its a good all year round route, while the A319 will do the sun routes which thin out during the winter season

[PPRuNeUser0176]

What will most lightly happen is the base will be a 320 and 319. 320 will do a morning LHR flight and then in the afternoon it will operate ACE, TFS etc. With Rome gone what will fill the gap. New Route?

[BHD2BFS]

Maybe an extra rotation to LHR? We don't know what BA will do to BHD

[EI-BUD]

yes tigger, but in the main BFS LHR is by A320.

The winter timetable has not been clarified, I think a lot depends on next steps of BA re LHR Belfast route. I woud watch this space.

EI-BUD

[EI-A330-300]

Would argee EI-BUD as it does very much depend and any major changes with BA and the EI codeshare will see the end of EI at BFS. There are only there for LHR and the bucket and spade routes are a bonas but this year they have more compitation than every and with less people travling. I think the next few months will tell a lot about the base at BFS...

[EI-BUD]

EI-A330-300;

I think AerLingus is very committed to the base. The introduction of the 2 319's is step change from A320 and a sign that Aer Lingus want to make the base work.

The relationship with BA is very important for both EI and BA, and I cannot see anything changing that. The numbers that EI feed into BA LHR hubs are impressive and cannot see BA doing anything to harm that. BA if it does continue on BHD LHR will be no more a threat than bmi were, as cannot see the frequency being as higher or higher than BA, my guess would be tops 4 a day.

Yes there is competition more than ever on Euro routes, but we will watch how that pans out, EI have their followers and bmibaby's future is less than certain so there is still everything to play for.

EI-BUD

[dublinaviator]

The amount of connecting traffic on Aer Lingus' DUB-LHR route is completely overstated on this and other forums. The vast, vast majority of traffic on the route is point-to-point. So should BA decide to operate the route using their own metal, just offering long-haul connections through LHR isn't enough, they'll have to compete for O&D traffic as well, which they won't be able to as Aer Lingus has a much lower cost base than BA and as such can offer lower fares, and arguably has a better suited product for the route.

As for the BFS-LHR route, this would have a much higher proportion of connecting traffic so obviously the code share is more important, but you'll find a lot of carriers are now adopting a 'metal neutral' policy, whereby they focus more on offering the best timed flight for the customer than feeding passengers into one particular hub or onto one particular airline. So under a 'metal neutral' policy, BA isn't going to force all its passengers to travel from BHD because it owns BMI, it'll also offer flights on Aer Lingus from BFS if that offers a better connection (assuming BA maintains bilateral relations with Aer Lingus).

So this idea that because BA have bought BMI, they're going to abandon their code share with Aer Lingus and force everything through BHD is nonsense. BA would effectively be abandoning the whole island of Ireland, because Aer Lingus would inevitably retaliate by abandoning the code share on its other LHR routes and transfer frequency to other hubs such as FRA, AMS, and CDG which would be bad for BA, who didn't just spend €210 million buying BMI only to use dozens of LHR slots on routes to Ireland using its own aircraft that it doesn't have...

[VanBosh]

Does anyone know if Aer Lingus ever looked at code sharing with IB to Madrid? I would have thought that it would have made sense with the relationship and apparant success they have with IAG through BA?

[EI-BUD]

The amount of connecting traffic on Aer Lingus' DUB-LHR route is completely
overstated on this and other forums


dublinaviator, do you know the figures?. the last figures that I heard quoted were in a business journal a few years ago and from memory it stated that EI were feeding 120k pax per year into BA's network at LHR from DUB/ORK & SNN.

No doubt Emirates, Etihad and Istanbul airlines increased activity at Dublin will have a knock on effect to EI DUB LHR interlining passengers.

EI-BUD

[dublinaviator]

Does anyone know if Aer Lingus ever looked at code sharing with IB to Madrid? I would have thought that it would have made sense with the relationship and apparant success they have with IAG through BA?

Its probably because of Aer Lingus' Joint Venture with United between Madrid and Washington, which competed directly with Iberia. Aer Lingus also had a code share agreement with Spanair before they went bust.

dublinaviator, do you know the figures?. the last figures that I heard quoted were in a business journal a few years ago and from memory it stated that EI were feeding 120k pax per year into BA's network at LHR from DUB/ORK & SNN.

According to an article featured in FlyingInIreland magazine in 2010:

"Aer Lingus has very good partnerships at present with a number of carriers. Connecting code-share with British Airways between Dublin, Cork, Belfast and London serving traffic flows to Middle/Far East, Australia, New Zealand and Africa, which delivered in excess of 150,000 sectors in 2009."

Mueller aims to make Aer Lingus Ireland's 'civilised airline' (http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/mueller-aims-to-make-aer-lingus-irelands-civilised-airline.html)

[840]

There are a bit over 3 million passengers from Ireland, North and South, to Heathrow every year. While BMI are probably responsible for something in the region of a million of them, that still eaves around 2 million for Aer Lingus.

In this context 150K sectors isn't that much at all.

And the proportion of connecting passengers is likely to be lower on DUB-LHR than the other routes considering Dublin has connections to many hubs (Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, New York, Dubai) that are scarcely there at the other Irish airports.

[Cyrano]

The Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9193152/Virgin-eyes-BMI-slots-for-launch-of-UK-flights.html) seems to feel sure that Aer Lingus will be bidding for the LHR slots which IAG is giving up, in order to start services from Heathrow to Edinburgh/Aberdeen and perhaps Nice. This is presumably based on Christoph Mueller's earlier comments to ATW (http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/article/aer-lingus-eyes-bmi-s-heathrow-slots-0404). (The slots have to be used for specific routes - EDI/ABZ/NCE/CAI/RUH/MOW - and as a non-UK carrier EI would probably not have the bilateral rights (nor the interest) to serve the last three).

Obviously Virgin is also bidding, but if EI were to win slots at LHR for non-Irish services, that would be an interesting development...

[jdcg]

As BA is gaining the BD services to DUB and BHD, would it make any sense for EI to end its codeshare with BA (in fact, should that not be an obligation) and instead feed VS and / or others from LHR, including domestic services to EDI / ABZ?
Or would they stand to lose too much revenue?

[840]

Look at it from BA's point of view.

If they pull out of Dublin and Belfast, Aer Lingus can still feed their hub and they can use the slots for more profitable services.

Plus, pulling out of the arrangement with Aer Lingus would see them lose codeshares to Cork and Shannon, which probably feed a respectable amount of passengers to their services.

[skyways1452]

The only thing I could see which could indicate what could happen with Belfast at least, is that right around the same time Walsh guaranteed the link would be kept, BA flight numbers started showing on the BFS arrival and departure boards where they didn't before on Aer Lingus flights. I reckon that he'll pass it off as 'yes, the link is with Aer Lingus our codeshare partners' or whatever possibly with increased frequency.

[Jack1985]

Aer Lingus could definately put these 12 new slots to good use extra flights to Belfast, Cork, Dublin plus a new route to Knock.

[Cyrano]

Aer Lingus could definately put these 12 new slots to good use extra flights to Belfast, Cork, Dublin plus a new route to Knock.
Er...no. I think you're missing the point fairly totally. The slots are being released in order to maintain competition on the key routes out of LHR which would otherwise become a BA monopoly. I repeat what I wrote above:
The slots have to be used for specific routes - EDI/ABZ/NCE/CAI/RUH/MOW

The condition of using the slots is that they are used to operate services on those specific routes, not just for whatever any airline might fancy doing with them.

[Mlinnie]

Have Aer Lingus Regional/Aer Araan took order of 2 new ATRS ?

[Jack1985]

The condition of using the slots is that they are used to operate services on those specific routes, not just for whatever any airline might fancy doing with them.

Ah I see appoligies, surely though Aer Lingus would have no intrest in operating services from Heathrow to EDI/ABZ etc... Id personally love to see Virgin launch a new domestic carrier similar to Virgin America from Heathrow :oh:

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Incident: Aer Lingus A320 at Barcelona on Mar 14th 2012, fuel emergency (http://avherald.com/h?article=44df086f&opt=4097)

Can't beleave how Spanish ATC handled the suituation.

[Noxegon]

Quite scary. It's also quite interesting to see the load factor...

[racedo]

Quite scary. It's also quite interesting to see the load factor...

Had read this a couple of days ago and felt similar .......

[Tom the Tenor]

And what was the Dublin Barcelona load of the same day, I wonder?

I would bet that it was not that much higher but because it was ex Cork it gets a dig.

Well, not on my watch, folks!

There are now two treads going on the event in the ATC Forum.

Looks like grubby parish pump politics may have been in play?

[EI-A330-300]

Tom you must admit a very poor LF for March. It may just happen to be low that day but if a LF like that in March what were they in Dec and Jan.

[mart901]

Of course mainland spain is the place everyone heads in March - not! Judging by EI's load factors generally I would imagine its either a one off or seasonal demand being poor, they just wouldn't fly the route if it didn't pay.

[Noxegon]

And what was the Dublin Barcelona load of the same day, I wonder? I would bet that it was not that much higher but because it was ex Cork it gets a dig.

I was only pointing out the low load factor, not where the flight originated from. But since you mention it, maybe there isn't the demand for BCN from ORK at this time of year.

[Stevek]

I really do reckon the DUB-BCN L/F was a lot higher. Sure they use the 321 on the route quite a bit!

[Jack1985]

Considering it was Paddy's Day that weekend, also that it was on a Wednesday (Highest LF's on ORK/BCN/ORK on Fridays, Sundays) I would have expected it be low, Cork/Barcelona is a money maker for Aer Lingus.

[CabinCrewe]

you have access to the financial figure for Aer Lingus routes ?

[Jack1985]

you have access to the financial figure for Aer Lingus routes ?

Nope, but the fact I work on the ramp at Cork and have seen first hand flights on Friday and Sunday to Barcelona depart pretty full is my main reason for saying that :ok:

[Mlinnie]

Well I flew DUB-BCN twice and BFS-BCN and all three times the planes were 85-90% full :)