Aer Lingus - 6 [Archive] - Page 6

BEagle

14th Feb 2013, 10:21

In a few weeks time, I have to fly from UK to Ireland. Probably from either London or Birmingham.

Looking at the websites, Ryanair appears to be the least expensive. Although I haven't looked into all the pre-printed boarding card, luggage costs etc.... But when I looked at Which? Jan 2013, I noted that of the 16 short haul airlines reviewed, Aer Lingus was no.4 scoring 74%, ba was no.6 scoring 67%....and Ryanair was in bottom position with a mere 34%.

So it'll be Aer Lingus for me. Particularly when I read comments in Which? such as 'A typical comment (about Aer Lingus) was : 'Worth the extra few pounds to avoid Ryanair' '

Thank heavens that Aer Lingus won't now be swallowed up by Ryanair. I don't have any safety concerns about Ryanair, but I will not fly with an airline about whom people (in Which?) write "It's a constant battle to get transparency at Ryanair. It always makes travelling with them a disagreeable process from the start" - or an airline whose attitude towards both staff and customers is the way it is widely reported to be at such an airline.

riptack

14th Feb 2013, 14:54

Mlinnie

14th Feb 2013, 15:14

I don't think that the A321 would have the range to cross the Atlantic but Moscow could be a good one !
Did Aer Lingus every operate scheduled flights into Moscow ?
And whatever happened to the rumours of Aeroflot coming to Dublin ?
A once weekly seasonal flight with S7 surely isn't enough to cater for the demand.

Cyrano

14th Feb 2013, 16:14

....back to more mundane route talk, I've always wondered why EI haven't used a two class A321 to fly thinner L/H routes like Philadelphia, Dulles, Moscow? Given the success American carriers seem to have with deploying their 757s on such routes.

The classic A321 can't make it across the Atlantic effectively, but the NEO can, which is why Aer Lingus has been looking at NEOs (http://archive.is/nX1F) for transatlantics.

Dublin-Moscow would IMHO struggle to deliver enough revenue to justify taking an aircraft out for almost a whole day (a day during which it could fly 4 or 6 sectors) - the only option would be an overnight service and I'm not sure if there is enough demand for that.

racedo

14th Feb 2013, 20:08

Thank heavens that Aer Lingus won't now be swallowed up by Ryanair. I don't have any safety concerns about Ryanair, but I will not fly with an airline about whom people (in Which?) write "It's a constant battle to get transparency at Ryanair. It always makes travelling with them a disagreeable process from the start" - or an airline whose attitude towards both staff and customers is the way it is widely reported to be at such an airline.

Beags

Be honest you would never have flown them anyway to Ireland.

BEagle

14th Feb 2013, 21:20

I won't fly with them anywhere, let alone to Dublin.

My point being that my decision has nothing to do with any concerns about safety, such as the nonsense trotted out by some about the Spanish event, but has everything to do with the reported quality of the product as experienced by many customers....

racedo

14th Feb 2013, 21:43

I won't fly with them anywhere, let alone to Dublin.

So aren't you been a little bit of a drama queen in needing to use Which etc to justify why you wouldn't fly with them when you never really had any intention.

FR-

15th Feb 2013, 05:42

Come off it, most people here know Ryanair passenger experience is the lowest of the low in European aviaition, but its cheap. People dont fly with Ryanair for the excellent custome service, but rather its normally the cheapest, one time, or the only airline flying the route. And I actually fly with them sometimes, if its the cheapest once ive added hold baggage. Or if I want a cheap few days somewhere random.

fr-

BEagle

15th Feb 2013, 21:15

Ah well, each to his own. Anyway, my booking is now made. £128.58 for a return flight BHX-DUB, including checked bag, seat choice, taxes and admin. Which seems perfectly fine to me.

And no "You want buy scratchcard", adverts or stupid trumpets on arrival....

Locker10a

21st Feb 2013, 18:21

What's this I hear about EI leasing 757's? If uts true I presume it will be a similar deal to the time in the 1990's when they leased MD-11s ! Will it be wet leases untill they can get A321neo's??
Anyone any info?

eick320

21st Feb 2013, 18:29

Apparently was mentioned and talked about in the last CRC meeting.

Locker10a

21st Feb 2013, 18:34

I really hope its true! Id be so excited if it was!!
I persure they would be based in Shannon!

Aerlingus231

21st Feb 2013, 18:34

Apparently was mentioned and talked about in the last CRC meeting.
For those of us that don't know, what's a CRC? :confused:

eick320

21st Feb 2013, 19:02

Central Representative Committee. ( group representing all unions meet the executive )

Jamie2k9

21st Feb 2013, 19:19

Aer Lingus and JetBlue announce full codehare agreement.
Move to JFK T5 from 3 April

JetBlue and Aer Lingus Announce Codeshare Agreement - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblue-aer-lingus-announce-codeshare-142700401.html)

Shamrock350

21st Feb 2013, 21:23

It's a shame Aer Lingus never went with the 757 originally when it was evaluated, of course they weren't to know back in the 90s that it would eventually prove to be an excellent transatlantic aircraft. The all Airbus fleet was obviously a great choice overall but I sometimes wonder how different the long haul network would look today if they had 757s.

It's an aircraft I've always wanted to see in EI livery!

Hangar6

21st Feb 2013, 22:18

I believe you will . EI are short capacity in summer for Uk Europe and USA and in winter over capacity with A330 in particular ex SNn but also Dub you can expect B757 in EI livery , indeed even supplied by Roi based Aoc !

levis

22nd Feb 2013, 03:06

Yup expect three 757 in Aer lingus colours soon , Toronto , Newyork , Boston , should be fun !

DollarBill

22nd Feb 2013, 11:20

Well certainly makes sense to offer daily SNN-BOS and SNN-JFK with a B757 (followed by A321NEO in 3 years?)

So the odds are on DUB-YYZ for another route?
What about using a 4th B757 to operate the 2nd daily DUB-BOS flight.....overall this would free up 2 of the current A330.....meaning 4/5x weekly DUB-SFO becomes a possiblity?

I assume however that fuel and operating costs of DUB-SFO would ruin that hope of mine.

Jack1985

22nd Feb 2013, 11:41

My understanding is Aer Lingus are looking to use the the B757 in the following ways with Shannon as an example:

SNN SUMMER

SNN-JFK M-W-F-S A333
SNN-BOS -T-T-S- A333

SNN WINTER

SNN-JFK M-W-F-S B757
SNN-BOS -T-T-S- B757

This allows them to lease the A333 out during the Winter or conduct heavy maintenance etc.

CCR

22nd Feb 2013, 11:50

A 757 would also be a great opportunity to launch a Cork-New York route too!!

Jack1985

22nd Feb 2013, 11:52

A 757 would also be a great opportunity to launch a Cork-New York route too!!

Even if seasonal. :sad:

CCR

22nd Feb 2013, 12:01

It would at least be a start with the perfect aircraft for transatlantic services from Cork.
Given the population of the Cork metropolitan area vastly exceeds the Limerick/Shannon region, it`s inevitable that some airline, hopefully Aer Lingus will launch a transatlantic service from Cork in the future.
I don`t buy that a transatlantic service from Cork would undermine Shannon as the road network between Cork and Dublin airport is vastly superior than it is to Shannon.

j636

22nd Feb 2013, 12:27

With EI moving to T5 in JFK I can't see a ORK T/A service for a while, EI are not going to split operations in JFK for a ORK service.

Jack1985

22nd Feb 2013, 13:14

With EI moving to T5 in JFK I can't see a ORK T/A service for a while, EI are not going to split operations in JFK for a ORK service.

Are Aer Lingus being restricted to just Dublin and Shannon at T5? :( I fully agree with you CCR and In my own view it would make sense if they done something like this with the 757's

ORK-JFK-ORK B757 Daily 11 March to 16 January (seasonal)

Then the 757 could take-over the SNN operations between 16 January and 11 March allowing year-round operation between SNN-JFK and BOS.

But hey how many times have we had news like this about a Cork US route.. Maybe I should just keep dreaming. :)

Jack1985

22nd Feb 2013, 13:22

For those of you who want to see Aer Lingus' new beta routemap AerLingus - New HTML5 Dynamic Route Maps (http://aerlingus.dynamicroutemaps.com/)

ryan2000

22nd Feb 2013, 13:24

You're probably right jf. The switch to the Jet Blue Terminal gives Aerlingus a new diplomatic excuse to give to the local media and the Chamber of Commerce as to why they can't start a Cork service. For decades it was the Shannon Stopover although we now know that the old bilateral never prohibited such a service, then the A330 was too large. No one forced them to order A330's in the first place.

Why don't Aerlingus clearly state that they have no interest in starting a transatlantic service from Cork if that is their position? At least then we can stop dreaming. Of course we have also had frequent statements from various airport spokespersons talking about transatlantic services. Most of these are in soft focus interviews. Only trouble is that they're always aspirational and the estimated start up dates are always several years into the future.

Needless to say they've never materialised apart from the Charters to New York and Orlando in the 1990's when the late Barry Roche was manager.

Jamie2k9

22nd Feb 2013, 14:07

THe A332 will be operating for Novair during the winter, EI flight deck and Novair cabin crew.

Flights will operate from Helsinki, Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen to Punta Cana, Puerta Vallarta, Cancun and Port of Spain.

justanotherloser

22nd Feb 2013, 21:42

There is NOTHING to stop EI operating a ORK service to JFK even after the move to T5 - T5 is getting an international wing, which will have customs and immigration facilites.

Let's not let that get in the way of the conspiracy theorists though.

Locker10a

22nd Feb 2013, 22:30

Well If they are only getting 3 aircraft there wont be enough for ORK this season anyway because 2 will be going to SNN and the 3rd is rumored to operate a route to Canada from DUB, but could end up in SNN too, depending on the frequency. So i very much doubt to see a 757 in ORK this year.

EI-A330-300

22nd Feb 2013, 23:26

There is NOTHING to stop EI operating a ORK service to JFK even after the move to T5 - T5 is getting an international wing, which will have customs and immigration facilites.

Not having a dig at Cork or anthing but common sense is stopping the EI CEO from operating a ORK-JFK service. Aer Lingus are a demand lead airline who need to make profit and need to maximize revenue per passenger and having a Cork and Shannon service will not do this.

Tom the Tenor

23rd Feb 2013, 01:07

Round up the usual excuses - we have heard it all before.

EI-A330-300

23rd Feb 2013, 01:35

Not any excuses.

Aer Lingus is a Business not a charity, sooner people realise this the better. People need to get a grip, next we will have Aer Lingus basing 25 aircrft at Cork and flying everywhere served from Dublin and be able to make a profit at the same time.

BTW don't work for Aer Lingus either.

ryan2000

23rd Feb 2013, 05:21

For decades Aerlingus has been trying to persuade business passengers in the Cork area to use Shannon to get to New York. They even provided free limousines at one stage to transport them there. However most prefer to travel via LHR.

I'm still not certain that normal business logic prevails when it comes to Aerlingus' transatlantic operation at Shannon. Is the A330 operation there profitable? It was losing money for years and yet they still operated it.

I presume if Shannon get 2 757's, it will free up an A330. San Francisco and Dubai as a code share with Ethiad are two possibilities in this scenario.

840

23rd Feb 2013, 07:10

Aside from a small number of extra passengers, all an Cork-New York service would achieve is taking passengers off their Cork-Heathrow, Cork-Amsterdam and Shannon/Dublin-New York routes. They won't want to undermine their own loads and yields.

If they ever do launch it, it'll be a defensive move to keep another carrier out.

Remember that there was no great expansion of European routes from Cork until Jetmagic came along.

Jack1985

23rd Feb 2013, 11:00

Aer Lingus is a Business not a charity

That's true, but what have they been at Shannon for years? I think everyone knows the answer to that and thankfully the CEO has realised this and taken the correct measures.

Aer Lingus basing 25 aircrft at Cork and flying everywhere served from Dublin and be able to make a profit at the same time.

No one is that deluded and you throwing the argument into a childish remark only makes yourself look like you need to get a grip.

Jack1985

23rd Feb 2013, 11:01

Remember that there was no great expansion of European routes from Cork until Jetmagic came along.

Slightly true, Aer Lingus had a massive short-haul order from Airbus on the way between 2003 and 2008 too.

MCDU2

23rd Feb 2013, 12:21

AL were losing money in SNN during the winter and hence the reason why the A330s were pulled out and reinstated for the summer. No charity there.

What SNN is getting now is the opportunity of a year round service to JFK and BOS, initially on a 757 and then the NEOs when they enter into service.

Of course as everyone should appreciate aviation is a cyclical business and is impacted by many external forces. At this present time the 757 and NEO is a good fit for somewhere like SNN and it has the added benefit of freeing up the A330s to fly further afield. Who is to say that in the future that the US dollar doesn't strengthen against the EURO and that there is an influx of US tourists spending it up large. In which case the business case is then turned on its head and bigger hardware would be required.

EI-BUD

23rd Feb 2013, 13:03

This is an age old debate why shouldn't EI do Cork to the US.

In my view if Cork gets a transatlantic route it will be by a US carrier who does not currently serve, Shannon. The list of possible US airlines is getting smaller who could possibly fit this market.

Moreover, it is not to say that the route to say JFK could not work but there are some distinct challenges:
- It is not a tried and tested route, yes there are passengers travelling between ORK and say JFK but that is in AerLingus's demain, hence no concrete data, I would suggest for interested parties i.e. airlines.
- Starting such a route would take time to establish, fuel burn on such a sector would be significant given the distance and a major disincentive to any interested airline.
- From Aer Lingus's perspective a ORK JFK route may have enough demand to sustain but it then could reduce the viability of a route like ORK AMS and would hit ORK LHR. They will want to ensure that the routes to cities like AMS are well subscribed so that they can not only get the feeding pax but use them to support the size of 320 and hence be able to offer a comprehensive proposition to the business man, i.e. 2 daily services.

- However, if one looks at Aer Lingus Regional Services on ORK UK routes, if these could feed a connection to the US, it could make the US route stack up and in the same train of thought as the AMS example, it could allow EIR to open routes ex the UK eg reinstate SOU ORK, other routes like LBA and the like may be more sustainable. Just a thought.

Of course all of that is another matter, as the reputation that interlining at DUB that EI has is often centred around US pre clearance etc, so ideally ORK would get that and given the costs etc to have a facility it may well not be feasible.

Just my angle on the debate. Net net for EI, it would not serve them, yes in isolation ORK JFK could work, but it would need to be a US legacy carrier who takes it and doesnt do SNN...?

EI-BUD

ryan2000

23rd Feb 2013, 13:17

I'd say their main concern is the impact it would have on SNN JFK. They probably feel the two services would cannibalise each other and the resulting yields would be buttons. At this stage AA/US is the only major US transatlantic airline that doesn't serve Shannon and realistically Cork isn't going to attract them anytime soon!

Tom the Tenor

23rd Feb 2013, 14:30

The Apologists for Aer Lingus are getting into their stride now to as much as possible dash any hope of a North Atlantic destination from Cork. Someone spoke of Aer Lingus not being a charity - it seems they are not old enough to remember that is all that it was to a large extent up to about twenty years ago when the Aer Lingus's sheepskin coat brigade and other hangers on like Aer Rianta employees helped to fill up cabins on their weekend jaunts. What else would you have called Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta at Shannon only a charity case, or more to my mind, a sort of respectable upper class dole for a lot of folk whom had notions about themselves and whom thought world aviation revolved around their own few acres in County Clare.

It wont be anyone in Shannon's fault if by next summer there is no North Atlantic destination ex Cork if Aer Lingus still have use of 757 aircraft. It will be down to the Cork Airport Authority to a large extent - will their masters in the greedy Dublin Airport Authority cry halt either for their own greed reasons or will they play the Department & Varadkar line in not wanting to upset the Shannon ass cart?

Either way it may well present the Cork Airport Authority with another grand excuse to do as little as imaginatively as possible and to blame the equivalent of teaboys for their local problems. The mantra seems to be if in doubt do nothing at all.

fivejuliet

23rd Feb 2013, 15:39

ryan2000, US are flying SNN-PHL this summer.

I think there will be some form of service ORK-JFK etc at some point in the future, with EI or not it remains to be seen. Connections from other EI services may be a big plus for it. America is a very big market from Ireland so there is surely some room for it. In fact, if 757 was kept on SNN summer services then I doubt a service from ORK would have very much impact on services from SNN. Lack of preclearance may put some off though.

If it were to be a legacy carrier then it would certainly be UA as they love regional flying in europe

ryan2000

23rd Feb 2013, 16:14

My gut feeling is that it's Aerlingus or nothing on ORK JFK for the forseeable future.

DollarBill

23rd Feb 2013, 20:16

Ryan2000: For decades Aerlingus has been trying to persuade business passengers in the Cork area to use Shannon to get to New York. They even provided free limousines at one stage to transport them there. However most prefer to travel via LHR.

I'm still not certain that normal business logic prevails when it comes to Aerlingus' transatlantic operation at Shannon. Is the A330 operation there profitable? It was losing money for years and yet they still operated it.

I presume if Shannon get 2 757's, it will free up an A330. San Francisco and Dubai as a code share with Ethiad are two possibilities in this scenario.

Sorry to kill your dreams but EI do not have any vendetta against ORK. They want to make a profit.

-"No-one made them buy the A330".....no-one did, but economics did. Are you siggesting that EI in the mid-1990's should have bought B757's just to serve ORK-USA?

-Yes for years EI did persuade business pax to use SNN, Why? Because thats where EI operated from/. As for the limos'.....this was an old perk of flying in Premier, you got Limo pick-up.....it wasn't a way to hurt ORK.

-"normal business logic"? Hve you noticed how EI over the last 3 years have greatly scaled back their SNN ops? They even suspend T/A serices over the Winter as its not profitable at this point.
-"Is the A330 operation profitable" Well the 2012 results say that it is. EI previously operated the route and lost money because the Govt was calling the shots.

And to be predantic.....a codeshare with EY would go to Abu Dhabi, not Dubai. Why do this when EY already have 10 flights a week?
And the DUB-SFO would need 1.5-2 A330 units to operate at 4-5 weekly,which is the lowest entry point EI need to make it attractive to business class pax.

ryan2000

23rd Feb 2013, 21:23

Dollar Bill, My sources in relation to SFO and Ethiad came from within the company, I'm not advocating that they operate those routes. In June 2008 when announcing that they were stopping winter flights to BOS and JFK from Shannon, EI made the extraordinary admission that these routes were consistently loss making for over a decade. A business driven airline would have chopped them years ago or at the very least purchased a suitable aircraft for them. Better late than ever.

I still think that political considerations are taken into account in relation to Shannon.

From the decision to purchase 747's in the early 70's to the 767 fiasco in the early 90's to using wide bodies on thin routes , EI seem to have made frequent mistakes with choice of aircraft on the atlantic. I wasn't criticising them for providing surface transport for 1st class passengers from Cork to Shannon. I'm just pointing out that a 757 operation from Cork might provide enough of the lucrative business traffic that is currently using LHR and AMS if these people conclude that flying East to fly west is less convenient than a direct route.

In general I think the addition of narrow bodies for the 1st time since the 707 era is a good move and will become the norm for East Coast destinations in the future.

DollarBill

23rd Feb 2013, 22:59

Yes EI have made some bad fleet decisions, however the B747 was only bad in light of the mid 70's Oil Crisis. And EI very creatively managed to tap into the leasing market to offset the seasonality of the Irish market.

SNN was always a political issue. EI didn't want to go through there but were forced to stick with. Purely from an aircrft cycle point of view it wasn't good for EI. A smaller aircraft should ahve been sourced in the late 80's/early 90's.
Remember the furore when EI pulled the SNN-LHR flights in favour of BFS-LHR? (Personally I thought that was a short sighted decision by an incapable CEO, reduction perhaps,but abandonment no)

EI pulling out of SNN over the winter was because they finally had a CEO who was willing to make a stand. It showed the SNN did not have an eternal 'right' to have T/A ops. SNN winter Ops gave always been bad. (In fact before Mueller arrived the 2 SNN routes were losing 1m a year each) The adjustment in schedule to a 3/4 mix has allowed EI to keep both routes at high load factor.

Now lets look at the options: 14X B757= 2300 weekly seats, 7 x A330 = 1900 seats. From the SNN POV 2x B757's are a lot better, thats 1 A330 freed up.
On top of that EI shall codeshare on the UA SNN-ORD route,so EI still keep access to 3 T/A routes from SNN

2 more B757s perhaps. 1 can launch DUB-YYZ. This of course would leach some pax from the DUB-ORD route. That could allow a reduction in frequency on this route, (maybe back to 7 weekly) thus freeing up a partial A330.....

Now we suddenly have 1.5 A330 available for the EI fleet planning Dept in S14. I know when I would want to sent it.......SFO. Whether that is cost effective pre-A350, well only the EI analysts can answer that.

As for the EY option, again I will scoff at the possibility of EI launching DUB-DXB. I would however see a market for EY/EI transfer potential on AUH-DUB-BOS/YYZ.

Unfortunately for ORK I feel the the B757 while being the perect aircraft is not an option in EI hands. 2 aircraft in SNN, 1 in DUB, maybe another in ORK for ORK-JFK. Not a good position for Fleet Planning/Flight Operations.
What happens when 1 goes tech? Will EI cancel the lucrative core routes from SNN and DUB, or will they transfer ORK pax up to SNN/DUB and use the "Cork B757" to cover the tech aircraft? I would bet on the later.

And ORK currently has an pretty nice shorthaul network, I agree that T/A Ops may reduce S/H pax numbers. The lack of CBP would hinder ORK-JFK viability. Operating into 2 terminals with only 1 of 3-4 daily flights is not a smart move.
And I cannot see the US Govt setting up CBP for less then 1000 pax per week, this prevents EI trying to use ORK as a transfer point for UK regional traffic.

Hangar6

24th Feb 2013, 13:06

EI-BUD

24th Feb 2013, 14:08

2 more B757s perhaps. 1 can launch DUB-YYZ. This of course would leach some pax
from the DUB-ORD route. That could allow a reduction in frequency on this route,
(maybe back to 7 weekly) thus freeing up a partial A330.....

..
Now we suddenly have 1.5 A330 available for the EI fleet planning Dept in S14. I
know when I would want to sent it.......SFO. Whether that is cost effective
pre-A350, well only the EI analysts can answer that.

In the context of the strong proportion of interlining traffic at Dublin Airport, I am surprised that this does not support plans or make a west coast route sustainable. However, I do feel that if say San Francisco was to be a viable route it would need to be at least x 5 weekly. The amount of metal tied up on such a route, likely make it unattractive in the context of what fleet they have, with what is on order plus the opportunities on the eastern side of the US and Canada.

EI will likely go EWR for extra flights as a few posters have copped that JFK
terminal 5 is out of the question of course this does rule Cork out for nw but
brings in Bfs as well as SNn interesting and of course close parter UA will be
party to the plans

What is the reference to BFS about Hangar6?

Hangar6

24th Feb 2013, 14:27

EI-BUD

24th Feb 2013, 14:34

Mentioned as B757 will add capacity to EWR from Island and UA rotes and EI
will be looked at jointly in line with a view to build on partnership and
lessons learnt on WAS MAD service as I said strategic growth sustainable and has
to be profitable from day onehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Hangar6, I'm confused maybe I missed something, you said earlier, that EI will:

likely go EWR for extra flights as a few posters have copped that JFK terminal 5
is out of the question

So you are saying that EI will serve EWR again, now with 757. What has UA flying BFS to EWR got to do with EI, since EI dont fly to either airports at present. And in the context of lessons learned on IAD MAD I cannot see the linkage, EI operated the route on behalf of UA with a 330, which has now ended....

ryan2000

24th Feb 2013, 17:15

I'd say we'll be seeing plenty Titan 757's at Dublin and Shannon, whatever about Cork as EI will need cover if these aircraft go tech.

justanotherloser

25th Feb 2013, 00:22

Terminal 5 at JFK does not rule out anything. T5i (an international wing) is being built which could accomodate flights from Non CBP airports.

Cyrano

25th Feb 2013, 10:23

What were the timings of the DUB-SFO flight when it operated back in 2007 or whatever? How long were the scheduled block times? (LHR-SFO is just under 11 hours so I'm guessing DUB-SFO would be perhaps 10 hours 30 minutes?)

EI-A330-300

25th Feb 2013, 10:34

When it first launched the flights departed DUB at 09.15 and arrived in DUB at 08.15. So 11 hours. They then changed to a lather departure/arrival in DUB but not sure if the layovers were any longer.

Jack1985

25th Feb 2013, 11:51

What were the timings of the DUB-SFO flight when it operated back in 2007 or whatever? How long were the scheduled block times?

A/C - A332:

EI147 DUB-SFO 0950/1250 M-W-F-S 11hrs 00mins
EI146 SFO-DUB 1500/0915 M-W-F-S 10hrs 15mins*

*Arrived the following day.

Cyrano

25th Feb 2013, 20:08

Thanks guys!

johnrizzo2000

25th Feb 2013, 21:51

Interesting times and good to see EI going for strategic growth
EI will
do 2x daily to. ORD BOS NYC from DUB year round , Novair Scandinavia will take
a 330 and further news on other winter plans

EI will likely go EWR for
extra flights as a few posters have copped that JFK terminal 5 is out of the
question of course this does rule Cork out for nw but brings in Bfs as well as
SNn interesting and of course close parter UA will be party to the plans

The idea that EI will go 2x daily year round on ORD/BOS/JFK would rule out the 757 increasing SNN-JFK/BOS, as only 3 aircraft are being sourced.

EI wont offer any Ireland-Newark flights; any extra flights to New York will be to JFK. It isnt cost effective to split operations between EWR and JFK.

Other forums are saying the 757's are ex Finnair, so are about 12 years old, but are in an all economy layout. It should be interesting to see what layout EI will equip these aircraft with!

Purely speculation, but ive heard the 3x 757s will operate with 2 aircraft being based in SNN for SNN-JFK and SNN-BOS, and the 3rd aircraft operating DUB-YYZ 4 weekly, and either DUB-ORD or DUB-JFK.

Removing the 330 from Shannon, and reducing ORD to a daily 330 operation, would free up 1.5 330's, as mentioned by other posters, which I would hope, would be used to launch West Coast!

The 757s operating from SNN, would have a decent amount of ground time in SNN, BOS and JFK, which means that with some schedule changes, they could easily utilise one of the aircraft on SNN-FAO next summer, or try SNN-AGP

thebig C

25th Feb 2013, 23:39

Hmmmm I didn't know EI had actually gone as far as actually evaluating 752s in the past. Was that around the time they signed the (very disadvantageous) leases on the 763s?

C

thebig C

25th Feb 2013, 23:47

3x757....a chap mentioned to me that it was 4?!

Is it an A333 or A332 being freed up?

Bearcat

26th Feb 2013, 06:46

1.5 a330s is the magic figure required for west coast ops so a lot of the speculation re 757s could be spot on.

VanBosh

26th Feb 2013, 06:49

I wonder if they are considering any non North American mid/long haul with this capacity? Somewhere like Moscow, Cairo or even Asia.

I guess the demand for the extra long haul is the short haul feed so probably not. I wonder would they look at IAD again in partnership with UA. UA operate their existing 4x week and EI compliment it with 3x on a code share.

riptack

26th Feb 2013, 08:16

Anecdotedly I've flown DUB-IAD a few times with UA and always seemed good loads (of course no indication of profitability but better than empty :O) But I'm not sure there is enough traffic between the two capitals to merit a year around daily service.

thebig C

26th Feb 2013, 10:01

@VanBosh

I doubt there is that much demand for North African routes such as Cairo. Moscow is already served albeit quite sporadically by S7.

The only mid-haul Eastern routes that "could" be a work (with alot of provisos) would perhaps be to Mumbai or Karachi. Having said that these routes are already technically served ex DUB through connections with EY and EK.

Far East routes have been long mooted and there have been countless rumours of a China DUB dirct flight, but I can't see anything happening before EI are operating A350s.

That only leaves theoretical routes to the likes of Lagos or Rio. In the former case whilst there would definately be enough pax to make the route viable there are many extraneous issues which would be problematic....to put it mildly. As for Rio, thats something of an imponderable, are there enough Brazilian migrants and Irish tourists to make it work?!

For that reason, I think the only routes to emerge will be new sectors to North America.

C

dubh12000

26th Feb 2013, 11:16

There is an Abu Dhabi rumour regarding San Fran through Dublin. The West Coast is a huge hole in their route map.

Cyrano

26th Feb 2013, 12:42

1.5 a330s is the magic figure required for west coast ops so a lot of the speculation re 757s could be spot on.

Where does this "magic figure" come from?

It seems to me that if SFO is combined with a shorter route (I'll take JFK as an example) it could potentially be done with a single extra aircraft (plus less ground time).

Let's take EI 105/104, currently occupying one aircraft:

EI 105 DUB 1045 - 1320 JFK
EI 104 JFK 1740 - 0525* DUB

We'll add one more aircraft and borrow the timings from the old DUB-SFO operation I was asking about the other day.

So the first aircraft does:
Monday:
EI 105 DUB 1045 - 1320 JFK
EI 104 JFK 1740 -
Tuesday
- 0525 DUB
EI 147 DUB 0950 - 1250 SFO
EI 146 SFO 1500 -
Wednesday
- 0915 DUB
EI 105 DUB 1045 - 1320 JFK
EI 104 JFK 1740 ...

and so on.

The second aircraft does the same but 24 hours later (DUB-JFK on Tues, DUB-SFO on Wed,...).

Of course you can move the SFO schedule to partially even out the ground time before and after the SFO rotation, but in principle, by "borrowing" some of the ground time from an existing aircraft, it seems to me that it should be possible to add an SFO route with a single additional aircraft.

Result: with two aircraft you have the daily EI104/105 JFK and (if you want it) a daily SFO. More likely would be a less-than-daily SFO and some extra frequencies elsewhere.

Noxegon

26th Feb 2013, 12:50

I see that Aer Lingus have tweaked their Gold Circle scheme so that transatlantic crossings in economy class no longer get points unless you book a flexible fare.

I've got to wonder why they bother having a frequent flyer scheme at all...

DollarBill

26th Feb 2013, 15:05

@Cyrano: I was the one who mentioned 1.5 A330 for SFO. I didn't refer to it as a magic number however. I get this from statement's previously by EI execs, they stated that to offer an attractive offering to the West Coast would require 2 fleet units which they did not have to spare. The issue with West Coast ops is the vulnerability to tech disruption. Now I am not sure what EI consider "an attractive offering" but I would assume it means 4/5 per week.

So yes,with a bit of tweaking EI could probably operate 4x weekly DUB-SFO with a single unit. But this would affect other routes and/or could still be very tight and prone to disruption. So by freeing up the "SNN A330" and dropping DUB-ORD back to daily.......suddenly you have the extra flex in fleet rotation to plan 5x weekly with perhaps a spare aircraft 2 days a week. (East coast ops easily allow 2 sectors per 20-22 hours, West coast would take ~27 hours per 2 sectors,assuming 2-3 hours on the ground)
Remember that EI do not dedicate specific aircraft to specific routes, the A333's and A332's have a pattern that moves them onto different routes through the month. 4x weekly and prone to delays is a lot less attractive to 5x weekly and reliable.

Ultimately of course the EI network planning section will make these decisions, not any of us. It could be that the West Coast is a no go area for EI until the A350 arrives, and all our chat is pie in the sky.

@Noxegen......I agree totally. It should be 'points per miles travelled' or 'points per Euro spent'. Fair across the board. Don't penalise GC members for getting a good deal on ei.com. I have read similar complaints from GC members on other sites.

WHBM

26th Feb 2013, 17:09

West Coast operations for Aer Lingus should not pose any scheduling issues, sure it takes just over 24 hours for the round trip, but New York and (particularly) Boston round trips are well under 24 hours (Boston to Dublin is normally around 6 hours sector time) and it is straightforward to integrate the two. Talk that it needs 1.5 or 2 aircraft to achieve is incorrect. I suspect even posters on the spotters page here could show them how to do it.

Mlinnie

26th Feb 2013, 20:33

Was there not once rumours of United operating a DUB-SFO route ?

Jamie2k9

26th Feb 2013, 21:14

johnrizzo2000

26th Feb 2013, 22:18

People seem very confident that SFO will be launched, I have dought even though they have the A332 available to do it. The JFK schedule above doesn't work out as its all A333 and EI will not drop to A332 to make SFO work, now it is workable but not as posted above.

1 - New YYZ service will reduce pax on ORD
2 - New SFO will have major affects on there ORD service and not that EI will be concerned it would quiet possibly spell the end of IAD with United.
3 - SFO has major costs involved and I don't think it will be profitable for EI if they restart it and as said above it will reduce profitability on other T/A routes

Mueller has previously said that theyve pulled West Coast, but will return. I think this is where the optimism is coming from!

A YYZ service would reduce pax on the DUB-ORD route, which would mean the additional 4 weekly flights operating this summer, wouldnt be needed.

All of the rumors are all just that for now...rumours! But, a lot of them make sense. Adding the 757's for SNN and to use on a new route ex DUB make a lot of sense. The aircraft are being added through the least risk method. If they dont prove profitable, theyre not stuck with 3 aircraft sitting idle!

Was there not once rumours of United operating a DUB-SFO route ?

The minister for tourism was ''in talks with United'' about a West Coast service. United has a decent presense in Ireland, and probably carries a decent amount of pax to/from California via EWR, IAD and LHR, without adding their own service

Jamie2k9

26th Feb 2013, 22:48

A YYZ service would reduce pax on the DUB-ORD route, which would mean the additional 4 weekly flights operating this summer, wouldn't be needed.

Reducing the ORD service will then defeat the Hub at DUB. Only this summer is the ORD schedule allowing decent connections. The new 05.25 arrival and 15.45 departures are what is needed to offer similar service like they do to JFK and BOS. ORD was the only destination behind. Connecting traffic through DUB is very important to Aer Lingus and removed ORD flexibility would be a bad move and as a SFO service couldn't many connections bar London and a few other spots in the UK. significant risk in restarting SFO and reducing ORD and EI only said when the UA reports surfaced that SFO wasn't in the plan short term. Anyway I am sure that Mueller will make the right decision at the end of the day.

VanBosh

27th Feb 2013, 07:36

I wonder which is more critical to the success of an EI route, passengers starting/ending their journey in Dublin and connecting into JetBlue or United or passengers going on an EI flight ex US thru DUB and onto Europe or vice versa.

Obviously EI would prefer the latter as it gives them two sectors but I wonder which delivers more pax?

I'm sure any additional capacity would be used for the DUB hub operation?

Just a spotter

27th Feb 2013, 09:48

SFO has major costs involved and I don't think it will be profitable for EI if they restart it and as said above it will reduce profitability on other T/A routes.

A return to SanFran doesn't necessarily mean SFO; Oakland or San Jose are also options.

JAS

DollarBill

27th Feb 2013, 10:05

DUB-SFO costs were more about low J class yield and high fuel costs than about airport charges. I'm not discounting charges but they were a lower factor.

Personally I think EI will wait for the A350 for DUB-SFO unless they get good 'new route' discounts from DAA and some form of guaranteed J class fares from the Irish/USA business community.

While I agree that Ireland-USA East routes are a lot less than 24 hours, thats if you do a quick turn on the other end. But EI don't always do quick turns,better to tweak the return time to suit pax requirements.
Eg. EI105 departs DUB at 1030, arrives back in at 0500 the next morning. So the guts of 20 hours due to the long turn on the ground at JFK.

And when being an armchair CEO and making up schedules/route maps, you have to take into account A332 vs A330 integration as well as planned maintenance downtime in between flights. Hence the cycling of aircraft through the route network. It is not as simple as "6 hours Eastbound plus 7 hours Westbound plus 2 hour turnaround= 15 per day for East coast flight".

CCR

27th Feb 2013, 12:00

Don`t know too many people in the San Francisco bay area who chose to fly via ORD to Ireland. They usually take a direct service to Heathrow and connect onwards to Cork, Dublin, Belfast, so I doubt the EI ORD service would be greatly affected by a reinstatement of the SFO-DUB service.

Regarding the EI Gold Circle scheme, it`s a joke now. I used to fly EI every month but now I increasingly use other airlines who actually credit my travel in their frequent flyer schemes!

840

27th Feb 2013, 13:33

Regarding alternating an aircraft between SFO and an East Coast destination, you also have to remember that if you leave no margin to deal with delays, one bad one could be affecting schedule for days. As things stand, short-haul aircraft rest for the night, while the turnaround times for long-haul are so long that any delays are fairly rapidly absorbed.

As for the changes to the Gold Circle Program... You now get more points for flying BA across the Atlantic than for flying on EI. EI have to be the only airline in the world that incentivises flying with a competitor.

Aisle2c

27th Feb 2013, 14:59

On the subject of Gold Circle, I got an email recently to do a survey for Aer Lingus where they appear to be thinking about launching a credit card which will garner you GC points. It would be great if it happens.

Noxegon

27th Feb 2013, 15:14

Even before this change Gold Circle was one of the worst airline loyalty schemes in terms of benefits / spend ratio....

akerosid

27th Feb 2013, 17:03

Ryanair's proposal to complete its purchase of EI has been formally rejected today.

FR, of course, is throwing its toys out of its cot and announcing an appeal. It claims political interference, but given the quality of its proposals for alternative competition in the market, one has to wonder if the government actually needed to lobby. FR's proposals became more laughable by the day. Flybe? Come on, seriously!

Anyway, FR is likely to string this along for quite a while. I suspect that part of MO'L's anger is pressure from the board and shareholders pretty angry about this plan; FR is stuck with a shareholding worth far more than its original price and on top of that, how many millions spent on legal fees (excluding the appeal now imminent). This has been a hugely costly exercise for FR.

Some time ago, EI lost a legal bid to force FR to sell its shareholding; there is no legislation to force FR to do so, but I am wondering if the failure of this third bid changes things. We can say this of FR's shareholding:
1. It does nothing for EI; FR contributes nothing to EI, and never has done.
2. With the failure of this bid, it has no future strategy for EI.
3. Its continued shareholding in its principal competitor cannot be said to be in the best interests of the consumer or the market.
You can create a legal test from the responses to these statements (phrasing them as questions), which can be built into legislation, and FR should, in fairness, be given the opportunity to respond. It should be given the opportunity to show that its continued shareholding serves a constructive purpose and the best interests of the consumer; personally, I don't believe it can do so.

I realise that the British OFT has still to rule on FR's shareholding in EI, but even if for "optics" alone, I'd much rather see any compulsory sale coming from Ireland rather than the UK.

johnrizzo2000

27th Feb 2013, 17:22

A YYZ service would reduce pax on the DUB-ORD route, which would mean the additional 4 weekly flights operating this summer, wouldn't be needed. Reducing the ORD service will then defeat the Hub at DUB. Only this summer is the ORD schedule allowing decent connections. The new 05.25 arrival and 15.45 departures are what is needed to offer similar service like they do to JFK and BOS. ORD was the only destination behind. Connecting traffic through DUB is very important to Aer Lingus and removed ORD flexibility would be a bad move and as a SFO service couldn't many connections bar London and a few other spots in the UK. significant risk in restarting SFO and reducing ORD and EI only said when the UA reports surfaced that SFO wasn't in the plan short term. Anyway I am sure that Mueller will make the right decision at the end of the day.
The 757 could operate YYZ 4 times weekly, and operate ORD 3 weekly if they wanted to keep the connections through DUB. Or they could use the 757 to operate the extra ORD rotations on a daily basis? Either way, the 757's add a lot of flexibility to the fleet, create a great low risk opportunity to open new routes, and can help further develop Dublin as a hub

akerosid

27th Feb 2013, 17:30

I don't see why a YYZ route would result in lower pax numbers to ORD; yes, they are fairly close geographically, but they're entirely different markets. For one thing, EI does a lot of onward connections with UA via ORD and it wouldn't have the same coverage of the US market from YYZ. Likewise, in the event of a route to YYZ, I'd expect to see EI do a deal with Westjet, for onward domestic flights in Canada.

I certainly agree that the 757 proposal looks very interesting; why wait until the 321NEO is around before developing new, smaller markets. Why let US carriers with the right equipment (other 757s!) steal its markets from under it?

--------------------------------------------------

Just further to the news on the EU rejection of FR's plan, some excerpts from the EU response:

Some excerpts from the commission's press release I linked above:

* In 2007 the Commission prohibited Ryanair's first attempt to acquire Aer Lingus (see IP/07/893) and this decision was upheld by the EU General Court (MEMO/10/300).
* Commission took into account changes in market circumstances since 2007, [...] market positions of Ryanair and Aer Lingus have become even stronger; combined market shares going up from 80% in 2007 to 87% in 2012 for short-haul flights out of Dublin. [...] number of routes to and from Ireland operated in competition by Ryanair and Aer Lingus has increased from 35 in 2007 to 46 in 2012.
* There is competition from other scheduled carriers on only 7 of these 46 routes.
* EI and FR are the only scheduled carriers focused on point-to-point connections to/from Ireland, instead of feeding into hubs like LHR (BA), FRA (LH), etc.
* Proposed merger would therefore have removed the "currently vibrant competition between Ryanair and Aer Lingus"
* "In short, customers' travelling options would have been substantially reduced and it is unlikely that competitors would have been able to sufficiently constrain the merged entity in its market behaviour. Higher prices for passengers would have been the likely outcome."

On Ryanair's proposed remedies, particularly the divestiture of large parts of EI operations to FlyBe and cession of slots to IAG/BA for a guaranteed period of three years:
* Commission's investigation demonstrated that these remedies were insufficient
* Flybe not a suitable purchaser capable of competing sufficiently with the Ryanair/Aer Lingus merged entity.
* IAG/BA would not constrain the merged entity to a sufficient degree and would have little incentive to stay on the routes beyond a 3 year period
* Insufficient degree of certainty over whether remedies would/could be put in place in a timely manner
* Insufficient degree of certainty over whether the remedies would work in practice for a sustained period of time
* Views and perspectives on FR remedy packages from "large number of market participants in Ireland and internationally, including competitors, customers, travel agents, consumer associations, public authorities and airport operators." This was done three times, based on the varying remedy packages proposed by FR.

EI-A330-300

27th Feb 2013, 17:45

ORD services carrys a good level of YYZ traffic and it also carrys a good amount to LAX and SFO.

Skipness One Echo

27th Feb 2013, 18:10

Is YYZ being talked about is terms of a handover of the Air Canada service on which EI are codesharing?

airbourne

28th Feb 2013, 10:36

Epsomdog

28th Feb 2013, 10:49

For that very reason. Aer Lingus used to operate JFK/SNN/LHR twice weekly 707 freighters (9148/9149). They stopped this when the wide body's came into service, as the freight could easily fit in the holds. Pure freighter a/c are mainly used for out of gauge or perishable goods nowadays.

Just a spotter

28th Feb 2013, 11:12

Just a thought and one which I dont think has come up before. Cargo seems to be a very profitable business for Aer Lingus. The belly of an A330 can hold quite a lot. Why was there never a cause for dedicated freighter aircraft with EI?

Aer Lingus owned Aer Turas, which operated as a Freight/Cargo airline running a couple of DC-8's (hence the 1970's style EI shamrock on their tail). IIRC Aer Turas was closed down in the early 2000's.

I'm told that the length of the runway at Dublin is (was) a limiting factor for cargo on outbound legs, especially on the older 330-300's.

JAS

Tooloose

28th Feb 2013, 11:59

Also, during the 70s, 80s and early 90s EI operated a number of 737QC aircraft which could be configured as all-freight, al- pax or combi aircraft. They operated as pax or combi during the day and were converted to freighters at night.One operated DUB-LHR-DUB every morning with a schedule that ensured its arrival just as LHR opened. Not to forget the Carvairs (converted DC-4s) which operated as car and horse ferries during the 60s and which were preceded by the Bristol Freighters during the 50s.

pwalhx

28th Feb 2013, 13:29

EI used to have regular freighters into Manchester as well, if my ageing memory serves me well I am pretty sure there 2 flights a night some nights and I think the flight numbers ex MAN were EI9213 and EI9217 however stand to be corrected on that.

And for the sake of clarity freighters carry an awful lot more than just out of guage and perishable cargo.

Skyfroggy

1st Mar 2013, 07:55

Does anybody have more details about this venture ? Are both cockpit AND cabin crew provided by ACL ?

"Aer Lingus’s choice
Aer Lingus have selected Air Contractors as their preferred supplier for the provision of Wet Lease transatlantic services. Discussions, subject to contract, are underway with the intention of concluding arrangements for an initial period of four years. The concept is that Air Contractors will operate two/three 757 ER aircraft from Shannon and Dublin 7 days/week. Destinations are to be confirmed but will include New York and Boston. This development underscores the confidence Aer Lingus have in Air Contractors and our ability to provide cost effective, tailored solutions operating to the highest possible levels of customer service and reliability. The opportunity is testament to the great reputation that Air Contractors have developed with blue chip companies and is recognition of the hard work, commitment and professionalism displayed by the Air Contractors team."

Skipness One Echo

1st Mar 2013, 11:41

Do Air Contractors have any ETOPs experience?

Just a spotter

1st Mar 2013, 13:00

AFAIK, neither Air Contractors nor their subsidiary Europe Airpost has 757's.

JAS

Hangar6

1st Mar 2013, 13:02

Released today three hulls for EI (SNn and Dub)

mizake the mizzen

1st Mar 2013, 13:05

Any ideas where these B757s are coming from?
Air Contractors don't appear to have any B757s in their inventory and no hint of previous experience with this type.

j636

1st Mar 2013, 13:10

Finair.

Anyone know what company will be contracted to carry out maintenance on them as EI engineers are not qualified.

Hangar6

1st Mar 2013, 13:22

Air contractors take care of maintained and quite a few b757 engineers around Dub ad SNn airports !

EI-A330-300

1st Mar 2013, 13:25

Yes engineers won't be a problem plenty of them around DUB. Air Contractors, DHL, Servisair and Delta have them based at Dublin.

airbourne

3rd Mar 2013, 00:46

I think it must be a monthly thing that the return of the west coast flight rears its head. Now with the talk of 75's joining the fleet, the west coast issue comes up again.

So apart from us bunch of aerosexuals, is there an actual demand for a DUB-LAX/SFO flight? Opinion would suggest that there is.

CCR

3rd Mar 2013, 12:25

Especially with DUB being developed as a European hub with codeshare flights with Jetblue, United and Etihad etc.

MCDU2

3rd Mar 2013, 13:22

So apart from us bunch of aerosexuals, is there an actual demand for a DUB-LAX/SFO flight? Opinion would suggest that there is.

Fuel has been the biggest factor against a return to the West Coast so far. Whats in the mix now is (and in no particular order):-

- more US IT companies are located in Ireland and they are demanding a direct service, but allegedly are slow to commit to take up a percentage of business class seats
- AL Regional feeding in pax from the UK
- pressure from the government which in turn is being lobbied for a return to the West Coast
- Unclear if Etihad will provide a feed of connecting pax utilising CBP in order to get to the US.

So lots of eggs up in the air but for what its worth (not much really) the rumours around the crew room are that it is back on for next summer with only the destination to be decided. The airframe is being freed up by the 757 taking on SNN work.

Jamie2k9

3rd Mar 2013, 13:35

EIR feed will only apply if a SFO flight was to depart after 11.00 in the morning to get UK feed as most EIR flights arrive back between 9.30-10.00. That will be the problem.

It needs EY to feed it to make it viable although SFO and LAX are in the top 10 connecting cities from DUB in 2012. SFO number 3 and LAX number 4.

In terms of short haul HEL is number 1 but EI seem to only make it work seasonal but DY expected to be year round, lost opportunity for EI? Moscow is number 2 so there is demand for Moscow service, S7 only operate a weekly service in summer and either EI or SU operate and code share would work IMO. Another surprise is Billund at number 3, maybe it would of being a wise move if EI when there over of CPH. There is a market and EI should look at it, 2 million passengers connected via Hubs in UK, Europe, Middle East, US.

Fly to Dublin | Home (http://www.flytodublin.com/)

airbourne

3rd Mar 2013, 16:33

'Fuel is a major factor against returning to the west coast'. That old chestnut.

What countries in Europe DO NOT fly to LAX/SFO?

It seems to me like a rather week link in the chain that its not possible to fly to the US west coast from Ireland.

Tom the Tenor

3rd Mar 2013, 16:53

It seems to me like a rather weak link in the chain that its not possible to fly to the US East Coast from Cork. ;)

ryan2000

3rd Mar 2013, 17:02

It was great to hear that EI will not be absorbed into Ryanair but hopefully they will now become more innovative and open new routes. The 757 lease is at least a step in that direction. It'll be interesting to see what Cork Airport will offer them if they do give consideration to operating a service to JFK from there.

BHD2BFS

3rd Mar 2013, 17:04

Its a shame EI moved to BHD, a 757 would have been a perfect aircraft to do longhaul from BFS, i doubt now they would move back now

airbourne

3rd Mar 2013, 18:04

Nobody cares about Cork!

EISNN

3rd Mar 2013, 19:25

Lets see. What European countries connect directly from California? UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, Turkey* and Russia*. Some very very big populations served there although some are seasonal I think. Definitely good yields there in most cases I'm sure.

I'm tired of people insisting that EI should have to fly to SFO/LAX. If there was such a great market for it why haven't one of the big US carriers done it ...... ever? EI have done it with some success but at the moment it's gone and rightly so. Fuel is an issue along with other overheads. I don't see any airlines flying to Poland, Austria, Czech, Greece, Portugal, Belgium, Baltic states, Finland, Balkan states, Norway, Sweden. I could go on but you get the point. Many of the big carriers are already feeding into Ireland and the other countries mentioned above via a main European hub. Dublin/Ireland is not a major hub ....... or at least not yet.

Don't get me wrong it would be nice to see EI going back to California but not for the sake of flying an aircraft to keep big businesses happy and for a load of seats to go empty or for some sort of romantic/sentimental notion. Why the demand on EI? Is the same request being put to DL? UA? AA? You can sure they've looked at it too ........ for all of a second.

If EI go back to California they'll want to make money and for no other reason.

* very likely serving a large part of their Asian/Micro Asian population. So do they count?

Sorry rant over.

Paxi_R6

3rd Mar 2013, 19:36

Nice to see a 757 in the colours of EI ! . They won't go back west coast ,not for now anyway , it's a flight where they don't make profit so why would they fly it ? . Also any news on a Cadetship for this year :)

airbourne

3rd Mar 2013, 21:47

What were the loads like when the LAX/SFO routes were flown?

GAZMO

3rd Mar 2013, 22:11

Wish they would move back to BFS!!!!

Mlinnie

4th Mar 2013, 15:08

EI should especially move back now what with the long haul tax abolished... but I here they are doing well at BHD

MKY661

4th Mar 2013, 16:32

Do you think Aer Lingus will ever consider a route from Dublin to Gibraltar? I know Malaga is a very popular destination from Dublin and I think a Dublin to Gibraltar route would sell really well.

EI-A330-300

4th Mar 2013, 17:44

The recently announced agreement with UA to expand their code share, direct flight to IAD from DUB and ORD from SNN now showing up on the website. economy class only, Business not available.

Mlinnie

6th Mar 2013, 15:16

Aer Lingus traffic falls in February - The Irish Times - Wed, Mar 06, 2013 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0306/breaking8.html)

Aerlingus231

6th Mar 2013, 15:23

Of course, we must remember that in 2012, there were 29 days in February, so with 3.5% less days, a 1.5% drop means a growth in numbers on average for each of the days if I'm thinking right? :confused:

Load factors up it looks like, a lot of growth on Regional, I can't remember, is it a year yet since all Aer Arann flights started operating under the Regional banner, if not then that'd explain the large rise in numbers as more flights would have come under that umbrella, if it is more than a year, those are pretty significant growth figures.

Short haul passengers and revenues down on last year by about 6.3%, but I'm not sure if that's offset by the lower number of flights.

Still good results all around I guess.:ok:

Sober Lark

6th Mar 2013, 15:41

Bet they made more on their 532,000 pax in Feb 2013 compared to their 599,000 pax in Feb 2012.

dublinaviator

7th Mar 2013, 22:33

Looks like there is some truth to the 757 rumours: Aer Lingus to Acquire Boeing 757s - ITTN | Irish Travel Trade News Magazine (http://www.ittn.ie/bulletins/aer-lingus-to-expand-flights/#.UTiaFEAKPWI.twitter)

Jack1985

7th Mar 2013, 22:49

Looks like there is some truth to the 757 rumours: Aer Lingus to Acquire Boeing 757s - ITTN | Irish Travel Trade News Magazine

It will be great if this pans out as more T/A flights to Ireland, just wondering if somebody would be able to tell me how much load ratio's with regards nationalities have changed on Aer Lingus T/A services since say the Summer of 2009 (prior to the cessation of IAD & SFO). Comparing 2009 with the present there has been an increase in the amount of short-haul services which allow connections and of course the successful addition of the Regional operation allowing a lot more transfer as well as the steady increase in codeshares and interline agreements. I'd be particularly interested to know what the LF on the IAD and SFO routes were in the Summer of 2009 even though I know this only tells half the story regarding profitability. However I do believe a West Coast route could work now for Aer Lingus they've really built up a good backbone to the T/A operation even though it maybe be awhile before we see both West Coast routes back (LAX & SFO).

Mlinnie

14th Mar 2013, 22:41

Lets say EI do lease 3 757s and use 2 of them at SNN and free up that A330. Would EI launch SFO or LAX first ?

Skipness One Echo

14th Mar 2013, 22:48

So with the B757s coming and summer not far off, what's the fleet deployment going to be? Are the routes the B757s going on currently on sale with an A330 product up front? If the A330 comes out of SNN, what's new from DUB for it to fly?
Why bother with Cork long haul if they can just get the Cork punters to use existing services?

Cyrano

14th Mar 2013, 23:36

So with the B757s coming and summer not far off, what's the fleet deployment going to be?
The 757s are not expected in service until winter 2013/14.
If the A330 comes out of SNN, what's new from DUB for it to fly?
A US West Coast route (my money would be on SFO) is surmised.
Why bother with Cork long haul if they can just get the Cork punters to use existing services?
Less of that common sense around here, please!

VanBosh

15th Mar 2013, 08:26

EI are trying to build a hub at Dublin and have made great strides in recent years, would it not be in their interest to cut services at SNN altogether and use that capacity to improve US connectivity ex DUB. I appreciate there is a market for SNN but would it not be better and more profitable at DUB?

Perhaps they are happy with the profitability on the routes and don't want to leave the market to the US carriers.

840

15th Mar 2013, 09:12

The last sentence is the significant one.

If there is a market there, it will be filled by a US carrier and SNN pax will use that carrier and not just head up to fill extra seats ex DUB. So, it would just be a case of giving up a profitable business.

Jack1985

15th Mar 2013, 13:17

Court ruling gives Aer Lingus room to boost dividends | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/15/aerlingus-dividend-idUSASN0001PZ20130315)

Jack1985

22nd Mar 2013, 14:15

Been told by a well-informed source you'll be hearing about year-round SNN operation and new Toronto service shortly, West Coast route ''expected'' (latter two from Dublin for Summer 2014).

fivejuliet

22nd Mar 2013, 16:07

A man on Morning Ireland today claims 6 weeks time until an announcement though the essence of what he said was basically the rumours floating around message forums so nothing new really

MCDU2

22nd Mar 2013, 21:16

Yep CEO confirmed verbally during a briefing to us mere mortals this week. Only confirming the rumours which have been doing the rounds for a while now.

EI-A330-300

22nd Mar 2013, 22:29

A man on Morning Ireland today claims 6 weeks time until an announcement though the essence of what he said was basically the rumours floating around message forums so nothing new really

He talked about possibly SJC over SFO and IDA would support SJC as its closer to Silicon Valley area.

DubWannabeNerd

23rd Mar 2013, 00:33

Noxegon

23rd Mar 2013, 05:53

I can't say that a Toronto service excites me all that much when two carriers serve there from DUB already. West coast would be nice though.

Flame

23rd Mar 2013, 12:05

Aer Lingus will be leasing 3 Finnair B757's for W13 to serve SNN-JFK/BOS and DUB-YYZ. Expect DUB-SFO to be announced shortly. A330 being leased to a Scandinavian company to operate to the Caribbean for W13

CallBell

23rd Mar 2013, 13:01

I travel DUB-LHR regularly for work. Looking at the schedule for next month, my regular flight, the EI156 isnt listed (usually leaves 0850/0900). The options are now 0740 and 0945. Is this flight gone for the season now? Pity if it is, the other options arent as appealing. Thanks.

Looks to be off the schedule just for April. I see it's back from may 1st.

high-flyer

23rd Mar 2013, 13:03

Yes, EI156 is gone for the summer, so the options, as you say, are the 154 or the 158.

high-flyer

johnrizzo2000

23rd Mar 2013, 14:10

He talked about possibly SJC over SFO and IDA would support SJC as its closer
to Silicon Valley area

Whilst SJC would be a huge coup for San Jose airport and for business travellers to Silicon Valley, I cant see it happening over SFO. SFO is a United hub which will offer lounge facilities, onward connections, and attract both leisure and business traffic.

Been told by a well-informed source you'll be hearing about year-round SNN
operation and new Toronto service shortly, West Coast route ''expected'' (latter
two from Dublin for Summer 2014).

Id heard that the 757s wont operate SNN-JFK and SNN-BOS daily during the particularly quiet Jan-Mar period. They will operate DUB-JFK on some days, as usually this flight reduce to 4x weekly from Jan-Mar

Although DUB-YYZ wont be a new route for passengers, it will be welcome competition, as fares on this route can be extremely high, and help bolster EI's hub development in Dublin.

MCDU2

23rd Mar 2013, 16:02

Just to clarify an A330 is being wet leased to Novair for the winter to operate routes to the Caribbean and Mexico. Flight deck crew will be EI and CCMs provided by Novair.

Mlinnie

23rd Mar 2013, 20:18

Would Toronto be daily for winter ? Seems a bit much during the quieter months, maybe EI will codeshare with AC on the route

Jamie2k9

23rd Mar 2013, 22:41

Howdy all,

I travel DUB-LHR regularly for work. Looking at the schedule for next month, my regular flight, the EI156 isnt listed (usually leaves 0850/0900). The options are now 0740 and 0945. Is this flight gone for the season now? Pity if it is, the other options arent as appealing. Thanks. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

No the 08.50 departure from DUB resumes for 1 May, think its an aircraft delivery delay. The 2 A319's haven't arrived yet but will soon.

DubWannabeNerd

25th Mar 2013, 00:31

Thanks all. It was April dates that I had looked at. Roll on May 1 so!!

DADDY-OH!

25th Mar 2013, 21:45

When FlyGlobespan operated Eire - US/Canada, it operated DUB & SNN to YYC & YVR on a B763. From BFS it operated to Orlando-Sanford. The aircraft were always full with pax & freight.

With the 757, we operated DUB, SNN & BFS to Toronto-Hamilton (YHM) and the loads again were always full.

But the route that amazed all of us was Knock - JFK operated by a 2-class 190 seat B757. The service originated ex-LPL with around 20 pax but always filled up ex-NOC. When we spoke to the Airport Manager, he wasn't surprised at all & said he always thought JFK, BOS & ORD would all do well from NOC. I don't know that part of Eire very well but when I spoke to our pax, they would say that the alternatives of BFS & SNN were a 3-5 hour drive away. Ideal for a B757 really.

MCDU2

26th Mar 2013, 12:27

I don't think AL really need to be following the business plan of a defunct UK no frills airline. Seats may have been full but its all about yields.

DADDY-OH!

26th Mar 2013, 13:51

FlyGlobespan was brought down because it had its £50 million ATOL bond illegally withheld by EClear, the CAA approved holding bank. All Tom Dalrymple could do to get the £50 million back was to put GSM into Administration. EClear collapsed shortly afterwards.

I was merely pointing out that the demand was proven to be there.

DADDY-OH!

26th Mar 2013, 13:52

I suggest you Google Elias Elia.

MCDU2

26th Mar 2013, 14:11

Demand will always be there if the price is right (ie: cheap). Problem is AL getting the price it wants to profitably operate the routes you described which is unlikely to or else it would have jumped in when Globespan went bust. The other obstacle is that it doesn't have the right size of aircraft to prove routes. The 757s as an interim measure and the A321NEO in the medium to longer term will provide this. The days of flying around 20 people in an A330 to keep a route going in the hope that demand will pick up in the summer are long gone.

Hangar6

26th Mar 2013, 14:12

Did that , nasty man who hurt a lot of people , maybe a thread in itself but not this pleaseeee best of luck

DADDY-OH!

26th Mar 2013, 15:14

It's okay Hangar6, I'll save that for another rant!

Jack1985

26th Mar 2013, 18:29

Aer Lingus have confirmed Christoph Mueller has been appointed chairman of An Post by the Irish Government, he will remain CEO of Aer Lingus with his roles unchanged.

Hangar6

26th Mar 2013, 18:41

Sort of a bus mans holiday then ?

Jack1985

26th Mar 2013, 18:49

Sort of a bus mans holiday then ?

Maybe.. That extra pay is probably a bonus too.

Jack1985

27th Mar 2013, 00:14

Aer Lingus really embracing social media now as they should be doing. Already on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest and soon to be..https://twitter.com/AerLingus

EI-A330-300

27th Mar 2013, 13:40

LAX_LHR

27th Mar 2013, 13:47

Aer Lingus and United further expand their codeshare. UA will codeshare on DUB-MAN and BHX. From 1 April UA Business/First Passegners with UA at DUB can use the Aer Lingus Gold Circle Lounge while EI Business Passengers can use United Lounges at 21 airports in the US.

Seems a rather pointless codeshare considering MAN and BHX are served by UA with similar times and the same equipment as DUB? Why would someone add 1-2 hours or more on a journey with an airline they have on their doorstep to exactly the same destination?
If DUB was 2 daily and they were connecting onto a later/earlier flight, that's one thing, but this just seems rather pointless.
And before its thrown up, even the USPBC is a moot point, as you are kind of negating the benefit of 'saving time' by 'wasting time' on the extra flight.

Unless UA are desperate to fill DUB and have more demand than the supply at MAN/BHX?

EI-A330-300

27th Mar 2013, 13:52

Aer Lingus and United don't codeshare on DUB-EWR route.

Adding MAN and BHX will allow people book onto EI's flights to BOS, JFK, ORD and MCO. None of the MAN and BHX connections could make UA EWR flight.

LAX_LHR

27th Mar 2013, 13:54

Ah I see, that makes more sense.

Cheers.

riptack

27th Mar 2013, 16:02

Would the MAN/BHX not also make the UA IAD flight? maybe that's what they are trying to fill?

EI-A330-300

27th Mar 2013, 16:08

Possible but as DUB-IAD has LF of around 90% when I last did the figures so don't think that the reason. Don't know loads at MAN.

Expect a lot of this has to do with the AA/US merger so UA will want to offer what they can from MAN and BHX. UA would prefer people from lets say the MAN side of BHX go via DUB and they get some revenue from it or via LHR and not with AA from MAN.

Flame

29th Mar 2013, 21:46

Aer Lingus A320 in the livery of Virgin Atlantic ..

Virgin Atlantic Airbus A320 EI-DEO | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://bit.ly/YPg0lp)

quantumofcheese

29th Mar 2013, 22:34

Rumour circling on other forums that Aer Lingus is to swap A350 slots for A321NEO slots, and will be the first airline with A321NEO ETOPS certification for transatlantic routes.

If true I feel it's hardly a major surprise really, anyone agree ?

Shamrock350

30th Mar 2013, 00:18

Now is it a slot swap with Aer Lingus taking the earliest A321NEOs in 2016 and renegotiating A350 deliveries for later in the decade or is it Aer Lingus cancelling the A350 altogether in favour of the A321NEO?

The latter would be a poor choice in my opinion, yes the A350 is considered quite large for Aer Lingus and this has even been stated by the CEO but it currently seems like the only viable replacement for the A330s which will need replacing whether they like it or not.

The A321NEO for Aer Lingus would be no surprise though, I'd be more surprised if it wasn't ordered eventually! It would give the long haul operation from SNN a secure future while potentially make ORK-East Coast flights very possible and naturally complementing the A330/350 based at DUB. The NEO family is an ideal replacement for the bulk of the short haul fleet anyway, I just imagined the A321NEO being part of that order with a few designated for transatlantic ops rather than being ordered in favour of the A350. It'll be interesting to see if any more details emerge from this rumour.

left rudder

31st Mar 2013, 12:35

Just checked in dub-agp-dub returning 10/4 and suprised to see rtn flt has centre isle - [A330?]
Can someone please confirm a/c type and whether the use of larger aircraft is a common occurrence on this route.

Thanks

Hangar6

31st Mar 2013, 12:42

Yes recent summers has A330 Arr from USA then to AGp return to do 2nd late Usa service EI 109 great utilisation !

left rudder

31st Mar 2013, 13:12

Hangar 6 - many thanks

Left Rudder

mart901

4th Apr 2013, 07:00

Talk in both the Irish Times and Independent of EI re-launch of San Francisco

EI-A330-300

5th Apr 2013, 10:41

Aer Lingus mainline passegners 757,000 up 2.9% LF of 79.9 up 4.1

Short Haul
675,000 up 1.7
LF 77.3%

Long Haul
83,000 up 13.7%
84.4% up 2.4

Capacity up 9.7%

EI regional
87,000 up 19.2%

Total
844,000 up 4.3%

akerosid

5th Apr 2013, 21:39

Aer Lingus is to take two new A320s on lease from Shannon-based GECAS. Delivery is due this month!

http://irishaviationresearchinstitute.********.ie/2013/04/ge-capital-aviation-services-gecas-to.html

Aerlingus231

5th Apr 2013, 21:54

If they're new, is it possible they could have sharklets? I know GECAS just delivered an A320 to Veuling two weeks ago that was equipped with sharklets, would look pretty nifty. Surprised this was kept under wraps for so long.

Hangar6

5th Apr 2013, 22:14

Ex air mediterainne via paint shop straight into virgin livery but EI reg and AOC is EI ,

Aerlingus231

5th Apr 2013, 22:27

That's what I thought first but the article mentions the aircraft being "new A320s", where as the Virgin ones are about 10 years old, and also mentions them being delivered at the end of the month, and as far as I know, EI-EZV has already been delivered, with EI-EZW being delivered in the next day or two. You probably might be right, may very well be seeing as this is only a blog and not an official source, but hopefully something more to it.

EI-BUD

5th Apr 2013, 22:34

This maybe a better question for the AerLingus Regional thread, but based on EI timetables it seems that Aer Lingus Regional are not scheduled to operate DUB BHX and MAN past Oct 26th.

Whats the plan for those aircraft, either they are phasing some out at that time, launching new routes or will add schedules to the routes later???

It feels like since they decided to work with EI on the existing routes MAN and BHX, they must be avoidng new markets like ones mentioned a year or two ago like NCL, EMA, LBA, LPL... Perhaps the experience on DUB BRS has been marginal, hence discouraging them to go head to head with FR on new routes. It seemed that EIR were comfortably protected from FR with frequency and the level of interlining traffic. I had expected to see a few new dots on the UK map ex DUB.

EI-BUD

Jack1985

5th Apr 2013, 22:37

two new A320s

The aircraft aren't new.

Ex air mediterainne via paint shop straight into virgin livery but EI reg and AOC is EI ,

Completely wrong.

GECAS will lease two ex Eurofly/Meridiana Fly aircraft (EI-EZV & EI-EZW) to Aer Lingus both operating for Virgin Atlantic Little Red.

Aerlingus231 is correct EI-EZV has already been delivered and EI-EZW should be delivered from Singapore on Sunday, heading to Aberdeen on Monday.

Jack1985

5th Apr 2013, 22:40

but based on EI timetables it seems that Aer Lingus Regional are not scheduled to operate DUB BHX and MAN past Oct 26th.

Why are people reading into the schedules this much, October 26th is nearly 7 months away! Aer Lingus Regional schedules are never really updated until June/July. The airline is hardly dedicating 5 flights basically an aircraft to BHX & MAN for 4 months to then pull the flights.

EI-BUD

5th Apr 2013, 22:44

Why are people reading into the schedules this much, October 26th is nearly 7
months away! Aer Lingus Regional schedules are never really updated until
June/July. The airline is hardly dedicating 5 flights basically an aircraft to
BHX & MAN for 4 months to then pull the flights.

Jack1985, I wouldnt say that was reading into the timetables. It is totally conceiveable that the routes could be seasonal for EIR, when demand may be greater. It is a reasonable question. Further investigation shows that EIR has not scheduled most of its flights.

EI-BUD

Jack1985

5th Apr 2013, 22:55

It is totally conceiveable that the routes could be seasonal for EIR, when demand may be greater. It is a reasonable question.

Aer Lingus Regional when launching the routes stated they were providing 3 daily flights to BHX (6 in total) and 2 daily flights to MAN (5 in total) to give additional feeder traffic to the USA operation as well as to broaden the choice for Business and Leisure passengers on both these Aer Lingus routes which are two of the busiest between Ireland and the UK, this is long-term not short-term gain for Aer Lingus Regional.

Epsomdog

5th Apr 2013, 23:33

Quote
"Aerlingus231 is correct EI-EZV has already been delivered and EI-EZW should be delivered from Singapore on Sunday, heading to Aberdeen on Monday."

EZV is going to Aberdeen. EZW not due from Singapore until 14th, this a/c will then position to LHR to op EDI service

Jamie2k9

5th Apr 2013, 23:42

Jacks right it will be end of June before EIR is all confirmed for winter, whats on sale is a repeat of last winters schedules. The only reason some EIR routes are on sale from DUB now is for early T/A bookings as EI lost out last year by leaving it until June to have the likes of EDI and GLA on sale. They got a lot of criticism from pax over it.

Jack1985

6th Apr 2013, 00:43

Perfect for families and reducing the ''scrum'' at check-in desks. Check-in times - Aer Lingus (http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/check-in/check-intimes/)

EI-A330-300

8th Apr 2013, 11:57

EI and EY get approval from us for codeshare.

Etihad Airways and Aer Lingus codeshare gains us regulatory approval | Al Bawaba (http://www.albawaba.com/business/pr/etihad-airways-regulatory-approval-482920)

Jack1985

11th Apr 2013, 17:35

JetBlue CEO David Barger has said he is interested in centralising Aer Lingus' Boston services with its JetBlue services after the recent move to T5 at JFK. The CEO has also said he would like to see a Cork route and he's eager for Aer Lingus to grow. Fairly positive statement by JetBlue's CEO although he has ruled out an equity stake in Aer Lingus. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-04-11/jetblue-chief-seeks-broader-deeper-international-airline-links

EI-A330-300

13th Apr 2013, 18:40

Noxegon

13th Apr 2013, 19:08

I've a feeling you've got the wrong code there. Aer Lingus do not (as far as I know) operate to Fuzhou...

EI-A330-300

13th Apr 2013, 19:57

Was suposed to write FCO.

EI-A330-300

16th Apr 2013, 16:01

Aer Lingus passengers can now book their Heathrow Express tickets on EI website.

Heathrow Express - Aer Lingus (http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/planandbook/heathrowexpress/)

Wifi now on T/A flights free in business and €19.95 in economy with unlimted access. Any flights that don't have it will from 1 May.

quantumofcheese

17th Apr 2013, 18:55

The third A319 (EI-EPT) arrived from Madrid today, the final one is due very soon. Meanwhile a Titan B757-200 is operating MXP flight this evening, while Air Contracors B737-300 operated to FCO yesterday. With the final A319 yet to arrive and Little Red services it has left there fleet very streched and it could be a summer of subbed in aircraft.

@EI-A330-300

How is the fleet left ''very stretched''? The net number of aircraft in the fleet is still the same. Little Red has 4 A320s: 2 were leased-in, 2 were taken from the EI fleet. The 2 from the EI fleet are being replaced by the 2 A319s.

Yes, the fleet is currently stretched, however as you say, the final A319 is due ''very soon''. Therefore, your notion of ''a summer of subbed in aircraft'' is baseless.

EI-A330-300

17th Apr 2013, 19:08

@EI-A330-300

How is the fleet left ''very stretched''? The net number of aircraft in the fleet is still the same. Little Red has 4 A320s: 2 were leased-in, 2 were taken from the EI fleet. The 2 from the EI fleet are being replaced by the 2 A319s.

Yes, the fleet is currently stretched, however as you say, the final A319 is due ''very soon''. Therefore, your notion of ''a summer of subbed in aircraft'' is baseless.

Its April and they are short aircraft yet one more due but with all the seasonal routes starting in the next few weeks and there is more than one tech fault there operations will have problems. Very few gaps on their schedules for tech problems that are in anyway major.

Could be a run of bad look but one of the VS aircraft when tech and EI had to sen there ones to operate while the new A319 had problems the day after it started service. In May and June there just isn't room for this to happen.

EISNN

17th Apr 2013, 19:18

Very few gaps on their schedules for tech problems that are in anyway major

Isn't that the way every peak season with most airlines?

Hangar6

17th Apr 2013, 19:22

eI just short a back up on a few days until A319 arrives
More of an issue is crew ....
A busy summer ahead and yes you will see subs every week

EI-A330-300

17th Apr 2013, 19:25

eI just short a back up on a few days until A319 arrives
More of an issue is crew ....
A busy summer ahead and yes you will see subs every week

Didn't even think about crewing, supose most of the part time crew are only contracted between May and September.

MCDU2

17th Apr 2013, 19:33

Tis true there is little spare capacity during summer which is a good thing. Should firefighting be required to cover for things like tech issues then load/connections permitting a LHR flight will often be merged freeing up an aircraft. There is usually a plan b, c and d before they get to a hire in which obviously is a last resort due to cost.

EI-A330-300

21st Apr 2013, 12:23

Aer Lingus have submitted proposels for a route to SFO or SJC, they want to know the interest and possible financial commitment from all the companies based here. The financial commitment will be the test if its just talk or are these companies serous about the service.

Would post the link but you need to subscribe to read it.

dublinaviator

21st Apr 2013, 13:10

Whats the website out of interest?

EI-A330-300

21st Apr 2013, 13:40

Sunday Business Post

The Sunday Business Post (http://www.businesspost.ie/#!purchase)

EISNN

21st Apr 2013, 20:22

EI from Alicante to Dublin cancelled last night? Anyone know why?

Jamie2k9

21st Apr 2013, 21:18

Diverted into Barcelona, caused DUB-PMI-DUB to be cancelled this morning but PMI-ORK has taken some of the retrun passengers back tonight. The aircraft operated from BCN this evening AFAIK.

dublinaviator

24th Apr 2013, 18:19

Aer Lingus to pursue further wet leasing opportunities after Virgin Atlantic deal:

Aer Lingus to pursue 'wet-leasing' contracts with other carriers - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Wed, Apr 24, 2013 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-to-pursue-wet-leasing-contracts-with-other-carriers-1.1370856)

Also interesting article in the Sunday Business Post on Aer Lingus' future strategy:

The Sunday Business Post - Aer Lingus pieces together an independent future (http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/COMMENT%3A+Aer+Lingus+pieces+together+an+independent+future/id/19410615-5218-5177-e373-509b44963326)

EI-A330-300

25th Apr 2013, 06:52

Aer Lingus seeking 100 redundancies as losses grow - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0425/385524-aer-lingus-ims/)

airsmiles

25th Apr 2013, 07:00

It's interesting how things come full circle in time. During the 1970's Aer Lingus were big in the leasing business but abandoned it.

MCDU2

25th Apr 2013, 16:37

It's interesting how things come full circle in time. During the 1970's Aer Lingus were big in the leasing business but abandoned it. Ain't that the truth. Grab the business plan from 10-15 years ago and its not far off what we are doing now. Futura was the charter side. There was a commuter fleet of turbo props - now filled by Aer Lingus Regional. Heavy aircraft were sent away on gigs like the Bali contract. The 737s spent some time in Italy amongst other places. Flight deck crews would often avail of special leave during downturns and fly all over the world before returning to the fold to take up commands when senior enough. Only thing missing now are dedicated or quick change cargo aircraft.

Only difference is that in the intervening period AL let go all the talent that had specialist skills in these areas. No doubt the young guns will think they can do a better job.

VickersVicount

25th Apr 2013, 22:09

post #1410 wasn't a clue ?

EI-A330-300

26th Apr 2013, 14:28

Ryanair have failed to block a UK Competition Commission investigation. Good News!

dublinaviator

27th Apr 2013, 15:25

Aer Lingus plans Heathrow slot transfer to British Airways | Airports & Routes content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/airports-amp-routes/aer-lingus-plans-heathrow-slot-transfer-british-airways)

dublinaviator

27th Apr 2013, 15:34

State to hold onto it's stake in Aer Lingus until Ryanair sell theirs:

State 'wants two airlines to remain' ? chairman of Aer Lingus - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/state-wants-two-airlines-to-remain-chairman-of-aer-lingus-29225486.html)

Hangar6

27th Apr 2013, 17:29

Find that article hard to believe and NOT discussed at this weeks meeting , given BA have any amount of slots at the moment and EI are seeking to buy slots seems article is way out ??? Maybe I am wrong ?

Aerlingus231

27th Apr 2013, 17:36

Perhaps BA are willing to sell EI a slot at that time? But I can't think that's the case as that's when most of BA's fleet leave in the morning. TBH, I can't see many passengers wanting to go from LHR to DUB at that time, I think it's probably quite likely that this route may have been losing money for EI. If it was a 6:50 arrival slot and 22:50 departure then I imagine EI would have a big use for it, but not the way it is.

EI-BUD

27th Apr 2013, 19:15

This is indeed a strange development by AerLingus given that they want to grow at LHR. Given that BA are a growing challenge now that they are frequent on DUB LHR and are keeping the pressure on on the BHD LHR route, if EI are keen to offload a slot, I would have imagined that BA would be the last airline they would offer it to. Plenty of big airlines out there who would be less sensitive to the timing, e.g. Etihad, Emirates, Qatar. Given that Etihad have shareholding in EI, surely they would have been the natural choice.

If this is true what is in it for EI, perhaps a BA exit from BHD LHR, and a rekindling of the BA/EI relationship of mutual benefit to all parties.

What about EI doing domestic flying for BA at a lower cost, this would allow BA to reploy some 319/320 to LGW....? Possibly getting carried away here. ;)

EI-A330-300

27th Apr 2013, 19:34

Whatever the outcome of this EI will get what they want from BA for the slot as if BA don't want it then I'm sure Virgin will happly take it. I expect they would prefer to fly the aircraft to Europe from DUB in the mornings than from LHR, better profit in doing so, they have dropped the Friday morning departure in July increase from DUB.

MCDU2

27th Apr 2013, 19:50

Seems to strange to be true on so many levels:-

- current tie in with VS could well develop further and hence the LHR slots would be part of this
- lots of rumours regarding possible expansion and tie ins with EY and the other carriers to be based in the new T2 at LHR
- Willie was more than happy to jump into bed with FR as part of their "remedies package" and hence I would have thought AL management wouldn't take that lightly
- word on the street is that the AL/BA codeshare relationship has hit rock bottom and could well end due to much of the traffic now connecting in the Middle East and avoiding LHR like the plague

Having said that, this industry never ceases to amaze me and defy logic.

EI-BUD

27th Apr 2013, 20:07

word on the street is that the AL/BA codeshare relationship has hit rock bottom
and could well end due to much of the traffic now connecting in the Middle East
and avoiding LHR like the plague

Hardly surprising so many people flying direct from DUB to Middle East avoiding LHR. Not with No less than 3 direct flights a day and 4 on some, including Turkish via IST, Emirates and Etihad via the UAE, it was bound to impact heavily on DUB LHR bookings.

Nonetheless, BA needs EI more than EI need them. A failed relationship with EI means that BA need to keep its own metal on LHR BHD and DUB (not that this is in doubt), which can be up to 15 pairs of slots per day. Not many other carriers of scale at LHR can provide the connectivity to other European countries and feed BA. Most are Star or Skyteam.

Keeping the EI linkage should be most important from a strategic point of view. Think of the amount of new destinations that could be served ex LHR with 15 slot pairs, and with new long haul aircraft coming down the pipe, BA need the slots and passenger feed to make these new routes work.

EI-A330-300

30th Apr 2013, 16:57

Aer Lingus will be leasing an former A320 from Iberia for the summer, arrived in the last 40 minutes currently registed EC-KNM. With this and the one remaing A319 there fleet should be covered and be able to cover operations without having to sub other operators.

Currently painted white not sure if they plan on adding the EI livey as it will be leaving in September or October and going to Allegiant Air.

MCDU2

30th Apr 2013, 21:08

It will stay white. That way it can cover not only AL ops as a backup but be slotted into Little Red if needed. The agreements with Virgin are supposedly quite restrictive in relation to branding. A white tailed aircraft is okay but a green shamrock would give them problems.

Aerlingus231

30th Apr 2013, 21:17

Surely they understood though when signing the agreement that some of the 3 aircraft over the course of the 4 years would need to be taken out of service be it for scheduled or unscheduled maintainence, would they rather no aircraft or an Aer Lingus branded one? :ugh:

Hangar6

1st May 2013, 07:31

The Lingus Source | (http://Www.thelingussource.com) and www.thevirginsource.com

This shows where due tech reasons Vs have used EI mainline hulls on lonedilon

Good news re strategy aircraft tho as it was way too tight,
Even resulted in no EI156/7 LHR rotation daily in Apr and this was a high yield flight

Aerlingus231

1st May 2013, 10:28

- Virgin Atlantic News and Information (http://www.thevssource.com/)

Jack1985

4th May 2013, 10:55

Aer Lingus are to operate 11 weekly services from DUB to BOS during the Winter 2013/14 Schedule - An increase of 4 weekly services against W12/13.

dublinaviator

4th May 2013, 12:29

Aer Lingus looks to partnerships and new smaller aircraft across the Atlantic for long-haul future | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/aer-lingus-looks-to-partnerships-and-new-smaller-aircraft-across-the-atlantic-for-long-haul-future-107197)

I think it'll be interesting to see what the future aviation landscape in Europe looks like in 5 years time, and what part Aer Lingus will play in that. The article mentions Aer Lingus' wet lease deal with Virgin Atlantic and Novair, and potential future deals. Michael O'Leary has already predicted that there won't be any European legacy carriers operating short-haul routes in the future. In a way we're already seeing the start of this with Finnair transferring regional routes to FlyBe, Iberia transferring some routes to Iberia Express and Lufthansa doing the same with a newly branded 'low fares' Germanwings. But the issue for Lufthansa in particular is they've done this without addressing the cost base, and are attempting to operate short-haul routes under a low cost model but with existing union pay agreements as Lufthansa staff. Could this be an opportunity for Aer Lingus to step in and become the 'feeder airline' of Europe, offering legacy carriers the ability to exit unprofitable routes and have them operated by an airline with a lower cost base, thus allowing them to maintain a short-haul presence but at a profit?

dublinaviator

4th May 2013, 22:31

Looks like the DUB-SFO rumour is gaining momentum:

Aer Lingus mulling San Francisco route | BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/aer-lingus-mulling-san-francisco-route-593244.html)

EI-A330-300

7th May 2013, 11:14

868,000 passengers for April down 2.5%

Short Haul down 3.3%
701,000
Capacity down 3.7%
LF - 68.7% down 2.8

Long Haul up 6.3
84,000
Capacity up 16.5%
LF - 69.3% down 5.3

EIR
83,000 up 5.1%

Investor Relations - Traffic statistics - Corporate Aer Lingus (http://corporate.aerlingus.com/investorrelations/trafficstatistics/index.html)

Easter falling end of March caused the decline.

Omnipresent

7th May 2013, 16:54

The slot pair EI sold to BA was a very early departure (pre 7 am) and very late arrival.

Whilst the deal was a bit of a surprise the departure slot is too early for long haul and only of use to other short haul operators if they are prepared to night stop another aircraft and crew at LHR.

EISNN

7th May 2013, 17:39

Was the slot pair sold or leased to BA? What EI flight numbers have been removed?

El Bunto

8th May 2013, 07:59

Titan 757-200 arriving in Dublin now ( 08:55 BST ) as EIN1330 from Stansted. Subbing on a route later?

Edit: looks like G-POWH, a regular for Monarch services.

Edit2: operated EIN330 to Berlin at 10:20, just landing there now ( 12:10 BST ). Departure was three hours late so perhaps a late wet-lease to cover technical issues?

EI-A330-300

8th May 2013, 11:34

An A321 went tech in TFS last night and isn't due back until 18.00 and Berlin was scheduled for an A321 today so everybody couldn't go if an A320 operated.

EI-A330-300

13th May 2013, 10:11

AC codeshare on all LHR flights

Air Canada / AerLingus Begins Codeshare Operation | Airline Route ? Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2013/05/12/acei-codeshare/)

eick320

15th May 2013, 10:36

Any ideas why the share price has risen approx 10 cent in the last 24 hrs ?

Jack1985

17th May 2013, 13:17

Any ideas why the share price has risen approx 10 cent in the last 24 hrs ?
One more thing: AerLingus ADRs take off - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Fri, May 17, 2013 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/one-more-thing-aerlingus-adrs-take-off-1.1396360)

EI-A330-300

20th May 2013, 11:54

Article in one of yesterdays papers saying that EI may be about to put 150 million into the pension deficit fund.

EISNN

20th May 2013, 14:45

that's not going to be enough though, is it? i heard its something like €750 million in deficit.

Jack1985

20th May 2013, 15:48

The DAA and other employers owe money to that as well not just Aer Lingus.

Hangar6

20th May 2013, 15:57

I believe it is not a legal fact that EI
OWEs anything at all to this pension fund however all sides to the discussion are seeking an agreed settlement , it's complicated but an agreed way forward is slowly being formulated and the matter if it can be agreed will remove a hurdle or shadow that hangs over EI which will result in a brighter future for all concerned ,including shareholders, given this issue is not helping any potential
Investors , still the share price is going in the right direction ...

EI-A330-300

20th May 2013, 15:59

EISNN don't take this the wrong way but unions and staff in Aer Lingus need to get real and understand that some of the pensions will be lost and that's just fact and all you need to do is look at other companies who's employees lost some of their pensions. A prefect example is Waterford Crystal workers, when the court case finished the Government will not be paying 100% of the pensions that have being lost but only a certain amount and the same will happen in EI weather staff or unions like it or not.

840

20th May 2013, 16:05

You'd hope that EI will do nothing unilaterally.

How the deficit would divided up, should EI and the DAA (which other companies are involved?) is unclear.

Based on shareholders' funds, the DAA is a slightly larger company than Aer Lingus (952m v 835m), so it would be expected that their share would be slightly larger. Still, you aren't even looking close to 750m.

What is possible is that with the recent upturn in global stockmarkets, the level of the deficit may have declined. EI and the DAA may want to use this to create a once-off permanent solution.

racedo

20th May 2013, 17:59

EI and the DAA may want to use this to create a once-off permanent solution.

Until next time...............

They gave €100 million on floatation and then gets asked for more.

The comment re shareholders is curious as what benefit is it to shareholders for the company to give €150 M on a liability that is unproven in court.

Hangar6

20th May 2013, 18:22

Well IMHO shareholders want any perceived or potential liabilities resolved
With the minimum of fuss disruption etc , removing this pension issue means MR H for example and even others may seek to increase their holding in EI , typically when buyers move in to buy shares market forces kick in and the share price increases.....

I may even get in on the act myself,

Of course the poison dwarf still has shares but sure even he will be happy pension issue resolved as his written down share holding value will increase
And his board will be even happier

R am I deluded here ?

Anyway Ducksie nice numbers today cut the little people some slack

dublinaviator

20th May 2013, 18:25

The comment re shareholders is curious as what benefit is it to shareholders for the company to give €150 M on a liability that is unproven in court.

Aer Lingus can't secure investment as long as this pension issue is hanging over it. Who would invest in an airline that may or may not be liable to pay hundreds of millions into a €750mln pension deficit? Once that uncertainty is removed, they will have no problem securing investment in the airline which will benefit all shareholders.

racedo

20th May 2013, 18:35

Aer Lingus can't secure investment as long as this pension issue is hanging over it. Who would invest in an airline that may or may not be liable to pay hundreds of millions into a €750mln pension deficit? Once that uncertainty is removed, they will have no problem securing investment in the airline which will benefit all shareholders.

What investment exactly are you talking of ?

What return are Aer Lingus guaranteeing to the investors ?

How are shareholders expected to benefit if the company still has to make the payments to investors even though the returns do not turn out as planned, i.e. New bases etc....

EISNN

20th May 2013, 19:55

No offence taken. I guess I didn't make myself clear. The scheme is on a downward trend any way that you look at it. €105m was injected into it in 2006. That left it at approx a flat €0 balance. €150m still leaves a €600m deficit. I'm not expecting EI management to fill the deficit nor am I expecting the DAA to fill it. The pension fund is in the cra**er either way. There are not enough staff paying into the fund like there would have been years ago. approx 15 years ago EI had about 7 thousand staff between DUB, ORK, SNN and LHR. LHR alone had something like 2,000 staff alone due to the very big 3rd party passenger and cargo operation there. Not to mention Team Aer Lingus. Can't remember the numbers on that. These days there are approx 3,500 EI staff and not all of them are paying into the pension scheme now. The newer staff are offered the option of joining the pension scheme but not all are taking it up. There are about 3,000 paying into the scheme. 3,000 staff paying into a pension for a larger amount of ex staff who are drawing off it doesn't make for a good outcome. I feel sorry for the staff who are paying now and can't remove themselves from the scheme cos there'll be little or no one to pay into a fund for them in the future. I'm sure the DAA staff are in a similar position. Forgive me if my figures are wrong but I'm hearing these numbers from friends still in the company.

dublinaviator

20th May 2013, 20:24

@racedo cop on, how would I have any information on potential investors? The bean counters in Goodbodys don't even have that info.

If you read any analysis on Aer Lingus at all, it's been well publicised that the pension deficit is holding back investors. Only last year Willie Walsh ruled out any IAG takeover of Aer Lingus, specifically citing the pension deficit as the main reason. Christoph Mueller himself has highlighted the issue a number of times over the last year at conferences and in several interviews.

Coming to a settlement offers shareholders no form of ROI, but it eliminates a major risk factor and clears the way for investors who would've otherwise looked elsewhere. It is also in the interests of Irish taxpayers that the issue be resolved as soon as possible, as it will remove any barrier to a potential sale of the state's 25% stake in the company and avoid the state having to sell their stake for less than its worth.

Hangar6

20th May 2013, 20:44

I have to say IMHO that share price is benefiting from recent speculation of movement towards this complicated issue being resolved
Fr bid 130 last time and now share price is nearer 160 as a good mgmt
Team work towards a reasonable settlement , the pension hurdle to future
Investors will be resolved which is positive news for anyone interested
In competition in Irish aviation , of course ducksie doesn't lie
Competition at home but that.s life ! Thank god FR were saved by us
Tax payers when it was near collapse and EI as well

Choice for consumers on our wee island is important

racedo

20th May 2013, 21:42

how would I have any information on potential investors? The bean counters in Goodbodys don't even have that info.

If you read any analysis on Aer Lingus at all, it's been well publicised that the pension deficit is holding back investors. Only last year Willie Walsh ruled out any IAG takeover of Aer Lingus, specifically citing the pension deficit as the main reason. Christoph Mueller himself has highlighted the issue a number of times over the last year at conferences and in several interviews.

So you have no idea what they will invest in and no idea what they will want in return but you want investors...........

Coming to a settlement offers shareholders no form of ROI, but it eliminates a major risk factor and clears the way for investors who would've otherwise looked elsewhere. It is also in the interests of Irish taxpayers that the issue be resolved as soon as possible, as it will remove any barrier to a potential sale of the state's 25% stake in the company and avoid the state having to sell their stake for less than its worth. Options are pretty limited for Investors as they need a return and lets face it that only means a trade buyer.................

IAG would then have EVEN more of a monopoly situation at LHR so guess that rules them out as everyone hates a monopoly at one airport n'est pas and they would kill T/A routes.
A Mid East Airline but that is constrained by 49% rule plus potential of any US rules as well
LH.................no benefit to them as they had LHR slots and flogged them
AF............no benefit to them

May have missed someone but doubt it.

Hangar6

20th May 2013, 21:50

Ah ducksie surely Mr H has spoken to you , he has to me ....
You know very well who is interested in Increasing their EI share holding stop being obtuse please,

Anyway moving o n aren.t we pleased for EI the gvt didn't blink at that grossly undervalued FR offer ?

dublinaviator

20th May 2013, 22:08

So you have no idea what they will invest in and no idea what they will want in return but you want investors...........

You're like that guy who argues with people for no reason other than to have an arguement. And you have this tactic of trying to catch people out by asking questions you know they can't answer, such as what investor do Aer Lingus have lined up that's holding off because of the pension deficit? As if I'd know that.

Now we're on to having "no idea idea what they will invest in". Where's that come from?

Let me turn it around. Are you saying nobody wants to invest in Aer Lingus? If so, what's your source to confirm this? Are you saying Willie Walsh never cited the pension deficit as a reason not to invest? Are you saying Aer Lingus presents no opportunities to potential investors and no possibility of a ROI (assuming the pension issue is resolved)? How do you know what IAG, Etihad, or any investment fund wants in return for their investment?

racedo

20th May 2013, 23:00

Let me turn it around. Are you saying nobody wants to invest in Aer Lingus? If so, what's your source to confirm this?

Nope never said that BUT you already have investors, they called shareholders.
Any NEW investment would be required to make return for shareholders plus the return for new investors plus return for the business.

Are you saying Willie Walsh never cited the pension deficit as a reason not to invest?

WW a really genuine nice guy but he will answer whatever question you ask him, neither giving any info away nor telling you of his intentions and leave you to interpret it whatever way you like.

He is pretty good at it as well. He has to be as if he made the incorrect comment then IAG could have regulatory problems.

Are you saying Aer Lingus presents no opportunities to potential investors and no possibility of a ROI (assuming the pension issue is resolved)? How do you know what IAG, Etihad, or any investment fund wants in return for their investment?

Ask yourself what they want from it and how soon.
IAG......................slots at LHR plus feed in traffic, Irish T/A traffic dead apart from Irish American cities (NY/Chicago/Bos) and cut employee numbers for a satellite base called Dublin.
E:mad:d......................no comment based on PPruNe rules but beware US everchanging rules
Investment Fund..............lets see a minimum of €5 for every €1 they put in within a 3 year time frame