Monarch -2

[Mr.Bloggs]

Does Monarch face a problem subbing-in aircraft to enable the original schedule to be restored? Or is it simply that there is no spare capacity around this summer? I sympathize with their scheduling problems at the moment. I wouldn't mind betting that over-demanding requirements from their commercial department have left no flex in the operation.

(I recall operating some MON sub-charters 3-4 years ago.)

[righthandrule]

Oh struth for all the Anti Jet2 - pro Monarch numpties, you will all be delighted to know Jet2 are being subbed to help bring the nightmare of late back to some normality. No doubt Mr Meeson will make sure every seat pocked is rammed full of Jet2's 87% otp publicity and the long list of destinations you can fly to with Jet2 from Manchester...

[Evileyes]

Folks, read the sticky at the top of the forum again please.

A number of spotter posts have just been removed. A newbie started it but some old-time PPRuNers who should know better pushed the snowball down the slope.

This forum is neither Monarch Operations nor Maintenance Control and is not concerned with the movements or non-movements of individual aircraft or flights. PPRuNe has a spotters forum for exactly that sort of thing.

Neither is PPRuNe interested that aircraft VXYG substituted for aircraft ABCD because aircraft ABCD had a toilet malfunction. Not sure what forum would be interested in that but this one isn't.

An oft forgotten rule of thumb: if you are typing the registration of an aircraft in your post you are probably making a spotter post.

Cheers,
The Mods

[brakedwell]

I suggest opening a splatter forum for toilet malfunctions. :ok:

[FUE Based]

It looks like no summer flights next year from Luton or Gatwick but two per week from Bhx and Man were the pax that poor from the south ?

[Jamie2k9]

Not sure but juist weeks after MON decided to drop FUE. Ryanair announced a new rotue from LTN - FUE (operates twice weekly from 5 November)

[airhumberside]

I think it's a bit early to be making asumptions that LTN/LGW-FUE(and also LPA) are dropped for next summer. It's odd they are the only routes not on sale, but it is still months to go until the summer schedule starts

As a side note ZB recently announced an increase for winter on LGW-LPA, one of the 4 summer routes not yet on sale.

[FUE Based]

Email regarding flights to FUE and LPA

Thank you for your email.

Please be advised, Monarch will not be operating flights from Luton or Gatwick to Fuerteventura for the summer of 2011. The decision has been made due to the current climate as is not commercially viable to operate these flights.

Please accept our sincerest apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Kind Regards

Catarina Freitas
Contact Centre Lead Agent

[SHTTKR]

Don't know if its true or not , but the name and job title mentioned in that e-mail are not in the staff directory

[caaardiff]

Whether in the directory or not, Is it really fair to be posting peoples names in an open forum like that?







Yes. They are an official of the company acting in an official role. If the e-mail isn't legitimate that's another issue.

The Mods

[Prestonian]

What's gone wrong with Manchester departures today - lots of MON/ZB passengers still waiting in Lounge and one flight showing as cancelled altogether?

[COSTABRAVO]

I believe an engine stalled whilst in the cruise on a flight from Malaga to Manchester yesterday (G-OZBO) and had to divert to Bordeaux and requires an engine change.
I guess this is the knock on effect from that.

[Jamie2k9]

In Dublin an Airbus 321 had a a tecional problem which caused major delays today and they will continue tomorrow.

DUB - ACE - dep 07:00 - departed at 15:05
DUB - LPA - dep 17:00 - delayed estimating 01:15 (Sunday)
Tow further flights will be delayed Sunday

I think another aircraft was brought to DUB to operate the routes but I'm not sure.

[SCANDIC]

I hope that the delays are cleared up by friday cos i'm going to Bodrum on a a321 or maybe it could be a different aircraft. I think that Monarch have the best engineers.

[Charley B]

A few nasty delays at LGW as well today!

[Shaggydog]

Just wondered if anyone knew what the technical issues were that caused a ZB flight from AGP to divert to Bordeaux yesterday on route to MAN?

[BOAC]

Bordeaux Nouveau released a month early?

[EC-ILS]

DUB A321 suffered bird strike.

[IB4138]

It's Beaujolis Nouveau, BOAC. ;)

[Oneil]

Hello,

I recently flew back from Cancun with Monarch (A330 booked hol through Thomas Cook)

On the flight back me and the mrs were told we couldnt sit together but I could upgrade to an extra leg room seat. Being a nervous flyer I opted to pay and for only $80 USD (which accordingly was a 241 offer for us- very generous) we were able to sit together in row 43.

Can anyone please tell me how much extra room I received in comparison to the usual seats?

[CabinCrewe]

Extra leg room seats are around 34".

[Jamie2k9]

It is excepted that MON are to have flights during the winter from LGW - IBZ. Since Ryanair dropped the route between LSTN - IBZ. The tourist authorities for both Ibiza and the Balearics and they added that negotiations were 'practically finished' and it looks likely that Monarch would use Gatwick airport,

Ibiza Winter: Monarch Flights? (http://www.ibiza-spotlight.com/news/2010/monarch_flights_070910_i.htm)

[22/04]

Monarch seem to be doing a good job at filling the locos gaps this winter - LTN-ALC and now LGW-IBZ.

Bet the commercial sharks at EZY and RYR must have sound commercial reasons for not flying thses routes this winter- they'll be back next summer so I hope it doesn't rebound on Monarch.

[EuroChallenger]

Hi

Does anyone know why the Manchester - Tenerife has been rescheduled on the 6th November? I booked in January, 12 seats.....we now arrive TFS at 1830 instead of 1355. More or less writes of the Saturday night. I wish I had paid the extra tenner with Jet2 now. First time flights wilth Monarch and we are effectively 5 hours late. Never had a reschedue with Jet2. Any ideas why this one has come about?

[conti onepass]

MON 7106 6th october manchester to paphos is it still the A300 then doing the route, fly back on 13th october.

[Spitfire boy]

From travelmole.com 08 Sept
A good guy leaving to hopefully resurface elsewhere in the industry. Suggests scheduled flights more important now than charter roots of MON.

QUOTE

Alan Murray, managing director of First Aviation and a director of Monarch Airlines since July 2003, is to leave the group on October 31.

A statement from Monarch said he was leaving “having earlier expressed his desire to do so”.

The group is now in the process of appointing a new head of the charter division and said a further announcement will be made in due course.

“Until this time Alan's responsibilities will be assumed on an interim basis by a management group including Tim Jeans, managing director of Monarch Airlines Limited, Kevin George, managing director Airline Operations, and John Romo, director and general manager of First Aviation,” said the statement.

The Monarch Group recently announced a widespread restructuring management team following a review at the start of this year.

“The Group Executive Committee thanks Alan for his contribution to the charter business of Monarch Airlines these past seven years and wishes him every success in the future,” added the statement.

By Bev Fearis

END QUOTE

[righthandrule]

Like Rats leaving a sinking Ship.

[Tight Seat]

Go on righthandrule explain, or is your pprune name to do with the other internet sites you visit?

[partyboy_uk]

Like Rats leaving a sinking ShipNot sure if I would call an airline with a very enviable 93.9% load factor a "sinking ship". Meanwhile, as well as the possible new IBZ routes over winter mentioned above, Monarch have also introduced winter PMI flights from both MAN and LGW and Cosmos is launching its first ski holidays with Monarch operating flights to Huesca in Spain from LGW; I don't see Cosmos stopping at one ski destination ;)

Suggests scheduled flights more important now than charter roots of MONLast time I heard, Monarch's charter - schedule split was approx 40% vs 60%, respectively Whilst the number of scheduled passengers carried is slightly greater, I don't think Monarch's charter capacity is any less important than its scheduled market. In fact, if anything, it is probably more important than ever before with the inclusive tour holiday making a resurgence because of increased protection after so many recent failures. What's more, the Cosmos-Co-op tour operation tie up is still in its infancy.

[righthandrule]

Okay, I was a bit harsh, but there are serious cash flow issues, and very delayed payements to contractors.

The reasoning behind the new winter flights are as mentioned to fill the gap caused by other carriers, but primarily to keep a cash flow. They have looked 2 months down the line and thought crap. There are the invoices flying in from all angles for the last weeks of the summer yet hardly any money coming in. I can guarantee that these 'new' flights will not return for next winter, serving that particular market in the winter is very marginal stuff, very little leisure traffic, primarily business and mainly ex pats using it as a shuttle service. These regular shuttle service passengers are crafty, and perfectly suited to Ryanair. They only need to take cabin baggage, don't bother with inflight meals and don't really care where they sit. Ancillary revenues on these flights will be minimal, and will no doubt operate at a loss, Ryanair can make them pay, other carriers such as Monarch, Jet2 and bmi baby can't. Though as i said, they are purely there to fiddle the bank sheet and keep the funds coming in.

[Tight Seat]

Er , cashflow/winter/airlines.... Not just Monarch mate, try every airline in the UK.

As for major cash flow problems at Mon, do you know who owns us? If you do, I doubt you have access to their accounts therefore know nothing about the state of Monarchs finances.

[compton3bravo]

What a load of tosh righthandrule! I wonder if you know who owns Monarch - no cash flow problems there me thinks. As regards the scheduled operation, I use them fairly regularly from both Malaga and Gibraltar. I can assure you that passengers do buy meals etc. on the aircraft and whenever I have been on them the seats where you pay extra are practically all occupied. With been interested and connected with aviation for over 40 years I take a keen interest on every flight I take (I know I am sad and must get out more) and talk to the crew wherever possible and the punters who fly with Monarch are quite willing to pay that little bit extra rather than go on that airline with a harp on the tail and be treated like cattle. So Sir, I am afraid you are wide of the mark unless you know some things I don't.

[SCANDIC]

Is there any new aircraft on the horizon.

[TSR2]

Ancillary revenues on these flights will be minimal, and will no doubt operate at a loss, Ryanair can make them pay

I have to disgree with you on this one. A recent feature in an aviation magazine quoted Ryanair as making 300 million Euros profit from 65 million passengers. This equates to less than 5 Euros profit per passeger. The feature also quoted that 24% of Ryanair's income was derived from highly profitable ancillary sales.
It would therefore appear to me that the Ryanair success heavily depends on subsidies and high profit ancillary sales, and given the profile of the passengers you describe, I would suggest that Ryanair are LESS likely to make the route pay than either Monarch or Jet2.

[COSTABRAVO]

Righthandrule, its no secret that Monarch struggled last winter and made the first loss in the companies very long history, but that doesn't mean the ship is sinking, the only reason this loss shocked people was because it had never happended to Monarch before, some airlines out there have been operating for years and never made a profit.
If anything it was a wake up call to Monarch to control their costs better and I have been told that Monarch have had a superb summer and are completely on budget or ahead of expectations.

Higher yields, a 94% load factor and higher passenger numbers, I don't think they could have possibly done any better this summer.

Cash flow stories are last years news, time to move on.

[Orion Man]

Anyone able to confirm or deny that Monarch have lost the winter Mombassas and Maldives from Thomas Cook to British Airways ?

I keep hearing persistent rumours that all is not well at Monarch. I do hope this is not the case and it is just silly scaremongerers.

Regards

Orion Man

[COSTABRAVO]

Well I've just been on the Thomas Cook website and pretended to book a holiday to Kenya for January 2011 and the airline comes up as Monarch. Tried the same for the Maldives and it came up as Thomson Airways.

It doesn't really matter what anybody says about the current health of Monarch, I know that they are currently in a much better position than this time last year with trading and yields above expectations, management are delighted with the current position of the company.

Unfortunately some people are understandably suspicious of such statements due to past statements from companies just for it all to go tits up a month later. In the case of Monarch, things really are on the up and up but whether people choose to believe it or not is another matter.

[Orion Man]

Glad to hear it. I must have been misinformed over the winter programme. It's obviously the silly season again for rumours and the last thing the industry needs is another airline talked into the ground.

Glad to hear things are on the up :ok:

Regards

Orion Man

[regularpassenger]

Hi,

I'm flying from LGW to Mytilini (MJT) on Oct 9th on MON7826.

Does anyone know what aircraft type operates this flight?

Thanks,

RP

[boeing767]

Operated by B757-200 ;)

[regularpassenger]

Thanks Boeing767...

Haven't flown on a 757 in years...seems their days are numbered so I definitely look forward to the experience!

RP

[Desk-pilot]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there's likely to be any pilot recruitment at Monarch in the near future - I'm very keen to join (F/O 2000hrs heavy turboprop)

Desk-pilot

[easyJet Jack]

Looks like monarch's technical issues are carrying on into the autumn!

In Faro airport at the moment due to fly back to MAN on ZB 581 at 1135 however due to the A321 going tech we've been landed with a titan airways boeing 737 due to depart at 1430! Obviously we haven't got assigned seats which we originally paid for sue to change of type but no catering either!

Firstly anyone know what titan a/c are like?

Secondly I wonder why the monarch fleet is suffering so much lately!? I hope they pick themselves back up soon as they will start to get a reputation for themselves!

eJJ

[Airbus321-200]

Plagued with technical issues???

Just because your flight has a delay doesn't mean they are plagued with tech issues. At least MON will sub in another carrier to do the flight instead of leaving you there for days.

And yes they wouldnt want to get a name for themselves for delays. And as your name suggests you'd know all about delays being at EZY. How many times has EZY been in the news about cancelling flights etc. People in glass houses...............

[aidoair]

Firstly anyone know what titan a/c are like?


Yes, they are probably some of the best looked after 733s around, at least in terms of cabin appearance. I believe they have a 31-32 inch seat pitch also.

Obviously we haven't got assigned seats which we originally paid for sue to change of type but no catering either!


Well you probably won't have it's a much smaller aircraft than the A321 ;). Though I am sure that the ground agents will have seated you next to each other where possible??? If you pre-paid for extra legroom with Monarch and didn't recieve it then I'm sure they will offer you a refund if you show proof and request it.

Anyway at least they were able to charter in an aircraft for you to get you back as soon as they could. It wouldn't have been cheap for Monarch at all, Titan can be very expensive last minute though they give a grat service to airlines and are trusted for this.

:ok:

[conti onepass]

does anyone know what time check in closes for monarch charter flights. going to paphos on 6th oct MON7106, flight leaves at 09.40, i aint going to get there till 8.20.is that too late?

[aidoair]

does anyone know what time check in closes for monarch charter flights. going to paphos on 6th oct MON7106, flight leaves at 09.40, i aint going to get there till 8.20.is that too late?

Check-in for Monarch Scheduled and Short haul charter flights close at -minus 40 minutes prior to departure. So in your case it will close at 9:00, hopefully giving you enough time i'm sure.

[conti onepass]

cheers mate.

[easyJet Jack]

Airbus A321-200 I think you should calm down!

I do agree that easyJet have been poor this year, was I even defending them?

Plus Monarch have had a lot of technical issues with their aircraft lately - infact all summer, particularly flights to Faro for some reason.

By the way, for anyone who doesn't want to bite my head off, they split the flight - must have been a full capacity flight.

The Boeing 733 departed as ZB581 and the rest of us departed as MON8455 (at roughly the same time) on a BAe 146-200 Titan. It was a different experience, never travelled that for on such a small a/c. I agree, however, the service with Titan was excellent, and the seats much much comfier than some of Monarch's older fabric interiors.

My only gripe - I didn't get my meal :( haha nevermind.

eJJ

[compton3bravo]

A new CEO has been appointed in the name of Conrad Clifford who takes up his post on 1 December. It looks as though he comes with an aviation background which must be a good thing and a change!

[JonnyBfs]

According to Canadian Affair's timetable section on their site, it looks like Monarch Airlines are operating some flights on a 757. :ok:
Glasgow - Toronto
Birmingham - Toronto
London Gatwick - Toronto

[easyJet A321]

As well as a weekly Toronto service from EXT!

Also from LGW - Montreal 2 X Weekly
Ottawa - 1 X Weekly

It was also mentioned in the TCX forum about MON's Glasgow flights but I can't find them...

[CabinCrewe]

Nope cant see any YYZ flight ex GLA with MON. All Canadian Affair S11 flights shown as TS A310,330

[JonnyBfs]

My bad, no Glasgow Monarch flights! As I am booked to travel on a CA flight, bit confused...booking engine not yet updated or my confirmation.

[goldeneye]

The flying programe for Candian Affair seems to be all over the place,
EXT - YYZ is on MON, but YYZ to EXT is on Air Transat via NCL, but the YYZ to NCL is via EXT, Also the outbound times are a bit odd on the EXT flight.

[SCANDIC]

I think that monarch have the best 757's in the uk after years of being well looked after.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

At least MON will sub in another carrier to do the flight instead of leaving you there for days.

Is that why today's MON626 MAN/ACE is cancelled? MON have had numerous problems this summer, only yesterday one of their Airbuses dumped it's hydraulics over 23L at MAN, and had to be towed back to stand. The Dalaman the day before left over 24 hours late:{.

[im going in]

Johnny,

The ZB626/7 ACE is not cancelled, It's operating on OZBF. It was offloaded to AEU 757, however that aircraft went tech, so it was taken back in-house.

[SCANDIC]

The Astraeus 757 had iceland express titles down the side. I think Monarch could do with another 757 or 767.:sad:

[COSTABRAVO]

All I can say is, about bloody time!!!

Monarch touts full prices as public shun 'low fares' - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/09/30/34784/monarch+touts+full+prices+as+public+shun+low+fares.html)

Thats the main thing the winds me up about Monarch. BA & easyJet have already done this a long time ago, why can't Monarch ever lead the way? They always follow what others do rather than being the leader. Other than that, I think Monarch are a great little airline.

[aidoair]

thats the main thing the winds me up about Monarch. BA & easyJet have already done this a long time ago, why can't Monarch ever lead the way? They always follow what others do rather than being the leader. Other than that, I think Monarch are a great little airline.


I thought it was a new European law anyway that all airlines had to show the fare including taxes (excluding any additional extras) on any advertisements and on the booking selection pages on the net, as far as I was aware I thought Monarch was doing this.

[TSR2]

as far as I was aware I thought Monarch was doing this.

No, not exactly. Both Monarch and Jet2 show a 'base' fare on the select flight page but show the fare inclusive of taxes in a box on the right hand side. Therefore the eye catching price is excluding taxes.

This is a move in the right direction as I believe that ALL non optional costs should be displayed as the eye catching price.

[COSTABRAVO]

Monarch do show the price inclusive of taxes etc. on the first page but in a panel to the right hand side of the advertised price (you have to click on the price before the taxes etc. are displayed) therefore I think this covers them as far as the law is concerned. BA & easyJet just show the price already inclusive of taxes etc. which is obviously the more honest way of doing things. The Ryanair's, Jet2's etc. are within the law but are still clearly hoping to get traffic to their website in a rather underhand manner IMO.

[aidoair]

Cheers guy's I understand what the article means now.

[COSTABRAVO]

Monarch scheduled passenger numbers for September have been released and are as follows:-
Load factor (1)
93.35% - Sept 2010
88.63% - Sept 2009
+4.71%
Passenger numbers (2)
464,697 - Sept 2010
429,258 - Sept 2009
+8.26%

[SCANDIC]

Is there any more 321s coming to Monarch this winter.:ok:

[Tight Seat]

I dont think we are planning any additional aircraft this winter.

[SCANDIC]

Thanks for that, is there still a rumour that Monarch are flying to Canada using a 757 this winter.

[monarch767]

Don't know of anything this winter. Summer 11 there is

Gatwick - Montreal ( 2 weekly )
Gatwick - Toronto
Gatwick - Ottawa

Birmingham - Toronto

Exeter - Toronto

All Monarch 757

[walterthesofty]

I cannot see any more airbuses coming thank god but how about some 737 NG,s?;)

[purplehelmet]

Monarch already operate a fleet of 21 a320/321s, so if they were to expand the fleet it would make more sense to buy more airbus than to switch to the 737ng.

[JonnyBfs]

Have the Canada flights been confirmed by CA?

[monarch767]

You can book the flights on Canadian Affair stie now.

[walterthesofty]

PH, it only makes sense to operate a certain type if that type continues to meets you present and future requirements, if it doesnt do that for whatever reason then you need to think about alternatives and the NG has two big attractions over the bus as far as monarch are concerned...,watch this space

[goldeneye]

Monarch are showing in Canadian Affairs timetable but flights are not pulling back when searching for availability. Still show as Thomas Cook or Air Transat.

[purplehelmet]

PH, it only makes sense to operate a certain type if that type continues to meets you present and future requirements, if it doesnt do that for whatever reason then you need to think about alternatives and the NG has two big attractions over the bus as far as monarch are concerned...,watch this space
ok.care to elaborate?

[Rolling Stone]

787's way late on delivery and Boeing offering compensation in the way of 'cheep' B737's ? and I believe they go further than the Airbus so no unscheduled tech stops from SSH. Its a rumor network after all.

[JonnyBfs]

You can't actually book the flights with MON from Gatwick?

[monarch767]

True, prob not loaded yet on the system. The contract has been signed ( told by I reliable source )

[JonnyBfs]

I've booked MAN-YYZ and am not sure whether MON or TS will take up on the TCX flight that I booked?

[SCANDIC]

Just heard from a very reliable source that Monarch will be purchasing to more 757's this winter, their not to impressed with the a321's cos they haven't got the range like the 757 has.:)

[pabely]

Can't say I've heard that one, where from?

[red 5]

Maybe they can get G-MONB & G-MONE back that are still stored in Victorville.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

They will have a hard job as "NE" has a big door in the side and is flying for FedEx.

[ryansf]

their not to impressed with the a321's cos they haven't got the range like the 757

This statement deeply worries me - surely they knew the A321 didn't have as much range as a 757 when they purchased them? Why are they suddenly not impressed with them after their buying spree (at least 10 over the past 3/4 years I believe)? Makes you wonder if they are looking at bringing back the DC-10s because they had more range than the A330....

[TSR2]

Just heard from a very reliable source that Monarch will be purchasing to more 757's this winter

If true, I would think it would be more to do with a changing route network than not being impressed with the A321. Horses for courses and all that.

[squeaker]

Much as I love the 757, it can't be denied that the A321 is more suited to most of MON's routes. The APS weight is about 10 tonnes less and it uses about 20-25% less gas to cart 210ish people down to TFS.
Admittedly, the A321 struggles on anything much longer than that, whereas the 757 will happily carry on to places further afield (34 tonnes of fuel on a 757, 19 on a A321 without ACT).
Depends what you want to do with it!

[SCANDIC]

Watch this space.:)

[22/04]

The 321 seems fine for short haul and can do Israel, Sharm (I think) with a centre tank. I remember when Monarch did Ovda ex LTN they useed to file a tech stop, certainly on the way back I think but often didn't use it. It works and offers single type rating with 319/320/330. - the 757 has lost favour somewhat for long range holiday work, as it is less passenger friendly than wide bodies and doesn't really have the range for the Carribean and Mexico.It is ideal for Canada and Sharm etc, and seems to be making something of a comeback, or at least a stay on with Thomson etc.

Are Monarch doing some kind of deal with Boeing though to compensate for the fact that they won't have 787s.

[partyboy_uk]

Are Monarch doing some kind of deal with Boeing though to compensate for the fact that they won't have 787sIf I'm not mistaken, Boeing paid for the heavy maintenance checks on the A300 to keep them turning over until the B787 arrives as way of compensation for the delay

[TSR2]

Does anyone have a revised delivery for the B787's?

The last statement by Monarch was a 29 month delay to Spring 2013 but there have been at least two further delays to the Dreamliner programme since then.

[victoria73]

monarch operating b757 to canada wonder they woud not operate the toronto route from belfast right size of aircraft for a 3 times a week service to toronto they would make a fortune.

[JonnyBfs]

I agree with you Victoria completely!!!
Since when have we not had a YYZ service? Monarch 752 would be great.
I am travelling to Toronto with Canadian Affair, not really sure with which airline - booked as TCX but not sure now whether MON or TS.

If Canada would be quite a big move, would a competitor into the PMI, MAH, BCN, LCA, AGP etc.. with Monarch be good for Belfast?

[TSR2]

In view of the recent statement that Monarch may revert back to a policy of quoting an inclusive price (just how much inclusive was not clarified) rather than the current 'add-on' system, I thought it may be interesting to compare on a like for like basis, the prices currently being quoted for next year with those paid pre add-on days.

In October 2002 Monarch Scheduled quoted £177.50 per adult for a return flight from Manchester to Faro in June 2003.
The price advertised was the price paid 4 x £177.50 = £710.00. This price was for full service flights and included 20Kg Baggage Allowance, Hot Meals in both directions, Pre-Selected seats, Taxes and Credit Card Charges.

The current pricing for 4 Adults on exactly the same dates in June 2011 is as follows:
Base Fare - £443.92
Taxes & Charges - £219.96
Seat Selection ( Standard Seats) - £60.00
Baggage Charge - £103.92
In Flight Meals - £52.00
Booking and Additional Fee - £43.99

TOTAL (For 4 Adults) - £923.79

On a like for like comparison, the prices quoted for 2011 represent an increase of 30% over an 8 year period.

Now some people may think a 30% increase over this time span is quite high. However, when you consider the massive increase in security costs over the past 8 years together with the APD charge, a 30% increase looks on the face of it quite reasonable.

I personally welcome prices displayed as all inclusive but the question is ' Will Monarch be putting themselves at a marketing disadvantage if they decide to go it alone and display inclusive prices and how much will they include as all-inclusive and how much will remain optional.'

One item I noticed on the current pricing for next year was a charge of £32.00 Fuel Supplement buried into Taxes and Charges. I mention this only because I would have thought that if the fuel costs are known 8 months before the flights, then this charge should have been incorporated in the base fare.

[Blighty Pilot]

I guess it has to be listed separately as not to pay tax on it as aviation fuel is not taxed.
Like I say, purely speculative thought, but it might be an explanation to your point.

[primus]

Please can anyone shed any light on when the ZB flights for winter 2011/2012 will be released for sale?

Thanks in advance

[TartinTon]

Should be around the first week of December

[SCANDIC]

Have Monarch got the Canadian affair contract, i believe that they'll use a 757 for it.

[TSR2]

I notice the new Monarch website is now up and running.

The prices displayed are inclusive of all taxes and charges but obviously exclude optional choices like Hold Bags, Meals and Seat Selection. Credit Card charges and a Booking Fee is charged additionally unless payment is made by PayPal in which case there is no booking fee.

Whilst I warmly welcome this change, it would appear that Monarch have taken this opportunity to increase prices.
If any Monarch managers read these postings, I would urge you to get a grip of your costs as the price differential between Monarch and your competitors is growing bigger and bigger and bigger each year to the point that I would now question is it worth it.

[AP1995]

Have/are monarch purchesing 2 more B757's for winter?

[Mr.Bloggs]

Airlines purchase for summer, in the holiday charter world. Lead times/training mean they would be acquiring new machines about now.

Unlikely in Monarch's case, sadly.

[conti onepass]

well i got a retun flight from manchester to alicante in december for 39 pound, so im not complaining.

[SCANDIC]

I believe that Monarch will purchase to more 757's for next summer but not sure where they'll come from yet.:) Even though their not made anymore airlines are still leasing or buying them, Tommy Cook have just got 2 ex china 757's. Their a great reliable aircraft.:)

[AP1995]

hwo do you knwo theyve got 2 more 757's?

[dublindispatch]

Are they basing a/c in DUB again nxt summer? Any ideas as they keep downgrading a/c size and number each summer!

[Airbus321-200]

As far as i hear it'll be 2 x 321's for DUB 2011 but with only 3 days of work. Fri - Sun. Also from ORK and SNN.

[dublindispatch]

So very much the same kinda pattern as last summer then for DUB. At least the Chaps will be back, we couldnt have a summer without the old chaps I have to say. Spiffing bunch in Monarch.

[Jamie2k9]

Good to see a xecond A321 next summer. Europe Airpost and Czech airlines will operate the MON services on Thursday to increase the number of seats availible from Dublin and reduce the number availible from Knock.

Summer 2010 on Thursdays it was:
Dublin - Faro - Knock - Faro - Dublin - MON A320

Summer 2011 on Thursdays it will be:
Dublin - Faro - Knock - Faro - Dublin - Europe Airpost B733
Dublin - Faro - Dublin - Czech airlines A321

[Airbus321-200]

Yeah a great bunch of people in Monarch i have to say. True professionals at what they do.

Pity they aren't doing the knock route this year. Hopefully they'll begin to expand out of Ireland soon.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair crushed them this summer with 5 weekly to Faro during July and August and 4 in June, September and 3 October.

[sharpclassic]

Incorrect Jamie.

Monarch were doing charter work on behalf another company (Thomas Cook I believe) so the fact that Ryanair were operating that route would mean that they 'crushed' that charterer, not Monarch.

[Jamie2k9]

Thats what I men they crushed the charter. It was work on behalf of TCX. Just looking back it does look like I mean MON but I don't.

[LPFR]

Ryanair operated Dublin-Faro 17 times a week during July-August, and still Monarch had good loads in it, although worse than 2009 when they operated the 757.

[dublindispatch]

And worse since the operated the A300 in DUB!!

[Jamie2k9]

Yes but Dublin isn't Knock. MON also operated from SNN aswell.
Dublin has being head to head the charters for a long time compared to Knock. This was the first time this happon in Knock.

Ryanair operated from Kerry and Knock in 2010 and makes up for some of the SNN traffic but people still had to travel to Dublin.

THere was a reduction in chartered flights from Dublin in 2010 but there will be a big incrase in 2011.

Look at it this way:

MON - SNN - FARO 2010 A320
May - 97% load factor
June - 97% load factor
July - 99% load factor
August - 96% load factor
September - 85% load factor

2010 Knock - Faro was running with about 65% - 70% load factor. (A320)
Compared to a A321 on the route in 2009 with load factors between 90% - 98%.

Thats why SNN will have a A321 on the route next summer and Knock a B733.

Ryanair had a big affect on the route.

[Airbus321-200]

Knock -Faro was on an A321 this year not an A320.

DUB - A321/A320
SNN - A320
ORK - A321
NOC - A321

[Jamie2k9]

my mistake. Then it's an even bigger reduction MON A321 take 214 passengers (I think) going down to B733 which only takes 148.

[AP1995]

are monarch going to expanding its bases anytime soon, teh have 30 aircraft with 4 main bases, does anybody know if they will expand to different airports?

[SCANDIC]

G-SMAN has returned to Manchester from Garuda

[Albert Hall]

I am surprised that no-one has raised this Monarch reasserts commitment to indy ops despite ditching Olympic - ttglive (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=4481156&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=4481156&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=4481156&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=4481156&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=4481156&articleTitle=Monarch%20reasserts%20commitment%20to%20indy%20 ops%20despite%20ditching%20Olympic) as yet.

250,000 seats is a massive number - I reckon it's the equivalent of four fully laden A300 flights every day throughout the summer season (and they have four A300s which don't work that hard). A little bit of 757 flying to Canada is not going to come close to making up that shortfall in activity across the whole fleet. Are the A300s about to disappear?

Monarch are making frequent statements that they are happy to deal with independent tour operators but their actions seem to totally contradict that. Every time they try to grow Cosmos, it ends up making huge losses and they re-trench shortly afterwards.

[Bfs bloke]

What are the chances of Monarch ever coming to BFS?

[Mintflavour]

Albert.
Olympic were trying it on with tough bargaining. It came down to a level on par with gold trail and we know what happened to them. Yes it is a loss of 250,000 seats but if it looks to be unsustainable what other options is there. I say sell as many as you can to others who will pay the right price.
My opinion only with limited info.
Mint

[airhumberside]

250,000 seats is a massive number - I reckon it's the equivalent of four fully laden A300 flights every day throughout the summer season (and they have four A300s which don't work that hard). A little bit of 757 flying to Canada is not going to come close to making up that shortfall in activity across the whole fleet. Are the A300s about to disappear?
The article says Cosmos and other independents will take up most of the capacity, so Im not sure there will be much of a shortfall in activity

[TSR2]

Olympic were trying it on with tough bargaining

Maybe .... or is it a case of Olympic not willing to pay a jacked-up asking price.

I have been monitoring the price of Monarch Scheduled prices for June 2011 on a weekly basis since they were released in September. At that time the price for 4 adults on the route that I was interested in was £959. This price was maintained until mid December when the new website with Tax-included prices was introduced and the price shot up to £1029. The current price in their 'Biggest Ever Sale' is £963 which incidentally is 28% higher than their main competitor on the route for directly equivalent services.

Now Monarch Scheduled has for some time been my airline of choice and I have been more than willing to pay that bit extra for the standard of service they provide. However, that bit extra has been getting bigger and bigger each year to the point that I now no longer consider it worthwhile. If this is typical of the pricing structure accross their route network then I have to say that I fear for their future in the low cost market.

If the same pricing situation exists in the Charter sector, then it may well be a case of Olympic showing two fingers to Monarch.

[TartinTon]

TSR2...you couldn't be wider of the mark if you tried...Olympic were chancers in the order of Kiss and Goldtrail.....

[TSR2]

I would be happy to be proved wrong but I suspect that Monarch are facing a very tough year ahead.

[Mr A Tis]

Not sure I agree with you there. Monarch have picked up the Canadian Affair Toronto 757 contract which must be a set back to TCX.
Yes, the ZB department have jacked up their fares over the last few weeks, but you do get what you pay for.
I recently was caught up in a ZB weather diversion. they were excellant. Got the aircraft refuelled & then onwards to our destination. Meanwhile the RYR & EZY diverted pax were kicking around the terminal waiting for coaches.
Also when strikes / weather & various other factors kick off, ZB will usually get you there, late maybe, but you get there. With the other well known lo co's you get your money back or a three week wait for a seat. You have to factor in if you think that is worth an extra few quid each, to me, it is.

[renort]

No airline is obliged to take on any flying on behalf of a tour operator, and fair enough if Monarch don’t want to play ball, that’s our choice. However, announcing the outcome of negotiations in TTG seems like a bit of a desperate attempt to raise the stakes.

I’d just like to know how the Monarch group think they can make more money (or lose less money) selling Greek part charter capacity in house using their incredibly weak tour operator.

Rationale like that WAS the undoing of XL.

[SCANDIC]

Monarch are going to be upgrading the a300's and putting in a business section plus other maintenance. Would G-OOOZ of Thomson airways be a good move for Monarch its up for grabs in January;)

[OltonPete]

Olympic Holidays

The BHX schedule for the IT aircraft is already starting to be filled where Olympic would have been, so it seems it is more than brinkmanship.

The short season Monday night Corfu has changed to Bodrum (not sure which operator) and the short season Saturday night Rhodes is now a Monarch schedule/Avro Palma.

Both the IT PFO's flights (Wednesday/Sunday) are now showing schedule
flight numbers but only bookable via Avro. With Cyprus Airways withdrawing from BHX no doubt Monarch will step in although this appears to with the same aircraft just changing flight numbers although the Sunday flight is at completely different times to the IT flight.

Monarch's winter timetable at BHX has held up well, no doubt helped by Baby's and Ryanair's reduced timetable.

Pete

[Albert Hall]

Scandic, is there any chance that you could spare us from the incessant ravings about Monarch getting more 757s? It is very boring and entirely speculative.

Back to the point - my understanding is that Monarch were trying to increase the prices which Olympic had paid for many years by a sizeable percentage. Olympic said no and have gone off to get other flying elsewhere.

Monarch has picked up a contract to do a total of five 757 roundtrips per week (using an aircraft with 30+ seats removed for the purpose) on Gatwick-Ottawa and Montreal plus a Gatwick-Toronto-Birmingham W pattern. That is hardly going to replace the gaping hole in Greece and Cyprus left by the end of the Olympic deal.

And whenever they have tried to expand using Avro and Cosmos, they have ended up with both of those subsidiaries losing loads of money - so what's going to be different this time? As renort said, logic like that was the undoing of XL to a large degree.

[airhumberside]

That is hardly going to replace the gaping hole in Greece and Cyprus left by the end of the Olympic deal.
To Monarch there is currently no gaping hole. Cosmos are picking up most of the Olympic capacity. The gaping hole only appears if Cosmos can't sell the extra capacity

[SCANDIC]

You lot are boring harping on about whether monarch will survive in the current market, monarch doesn't fly for over 40 years for nothing they know their business..

[JonnyBfs]

If Monarch have apparently got this Canadian Affair Contract, when we be able to book the flights?
Will they go for sale on the Monarch Charter on their website or just CA?

[monarch767]

Have you rang CA and asked them??

[JonnyBfs]

Yes, I phoned but the agent said that she hadn't heard that TCX were not operating the YYZ flights :confused:

[Mr A Tis]

Canadian Affair sent me an updated brochure this week. ALL 757 flights are shown as MONARCH, seat pitch 32". But the 757s will only be operated from Gatwick & Birmingham.
It looks like the MAN-YYZ is now exclusively operated by Air Transat A310/A330. (as is LHR, GLA, EXT, NEW)
The only TCX flight to YYZ is a weekly A330 on a Monday from Gatwick.

[JonnyBfs]

Very helpful Mr A! Wonder when they will be online etc.. Because I have booked to fly MAN-YYZ with TCX so it is interesting I am now going to be TS :ok:

[Airbus321-200]

Those of you who think monarch might be in trouble couldn't be further from the truth. Just because they told olympic where to go doesn't mean they are in trouble. It means that they aren't idiots excepting any contract even if the money doesn't balance. Remember Cosmos and monarch and basically the same company so some good advertising from them should bring in a good yield.
If monarch made a loss this year i'd be really surprised from what i have seen. Maybe a small profit but not a loss.

[horatio_b]

In the year to October 2009, Monarch lost £19.2m. ttg18062010 (http://62.128.151.219/Freedom/A1o3yf/ttg18062010/resources/4.htm) The current year's figures will be affected by the disruption caused by the ash cloud.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

In the year to October 2010 the Monarch Group made a small profit, despite the Ash Cloud.:ok:

[The Hitcher]

They seem to have picked up a lot of MOD work recently, hear there doing pretty well at the moment generally.

[Leonard320]

PFO (Paphos) has just been added to the summer schdule on the ZB network on wed and sun ex LGW, BHX and MAN using AB6/752 and 321 aircraft.

[OltonPete]

Good to see PFO added but as I have said on the BHX thread it looks like they have just converted two IT flights to schedule unless BHX is getting a 5th based aircraft. Also it is thus far summer only unless the schedule/timetable has yet to be updated.

Are the LGW and MAN schedules similar to BHX and just a case of changing the flights from IT to schedule? I hope I am wrong and it is an increase in real terms but it seems unlikely?

Pete

[viscount702]

The Wednesday flight from MAN would seem to be the Charter becoming a scheduled flight.

The timings are exactly the same and the Charter flight is no longer available. I don't know about the Sunday flight.

[Sam1664]

Oltonpete,

Not sure how true it is, but I have heard that Monarch are basing 5 aircraft at BHX from summer 2011,

Can anyone else confirm that?

[OltonPete]

2011 News - Flights - Monarch passenger numbers soar in December 2010 | Flights News | Monarch (http://www.monarch.co.uk/news/flights/2011-news/monarch-december-traffic)

Very noticeable at BHX that there were less cut-backs in the first two weeks of December, which is traditionally a quiet period. There has been some pruning of the January schedule at BHX but certainly no worse than last year, in fact I would say overall there will be slightly more ZB movements than in 2010 .

Sam1664

Not heard that one but it is the kind of boost BHX needs.

Pete

[The Hitcher]

Good to see them doing well, great outfit

[Egon Maybach]

didnt take long for the new boss to start shaking things up. Wonder who's next...?

from TTG

Tim Jeans quits Monarch Airlines

Jan 07, 2011 09:29

Tim Jeans has quit as managing director of Monarch Airlines.
He is leaving “to pursue other opportunities outside the group,” according to parent company the Monarch Group.
Jeans has been succeeded by Kevin George, who is promoted from the role of airline operations managing director.
George has more than 25 years industry experience and has been with Monarch Airlines for four years.
Group chief executive Conrad Clifford said: “Kevin has done a fantastic job in managing all operational aspects of the airline and we are looking forward to drawing on his wealth of experience in commercial strategy and service delivery which will be key components of the new direction for Monarch Airlines going forward within the Monarch Group.
“We are grateful to Tim for his valued contribution to the growth of the Monarch Airlines business over the last six years and we wish him every success for his future.”
Monarch Airlines operates a fleet of 30 aircraft on scheduled and charter flights to more than 50 destinations, carrying around six million sector passengers a year.

[Tight Seat]

Whos next? The Major????????:\

[squeaker]

Exclusive video footage of TJ leaving to pursue other opportunities here:
YouTube - Sonny Corleone Gets Whacked-Godfather (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrv1roq_gBw&feature=related)

[Airbus321-200]

Wow that didn't take long. I think the family hired in the new guy to shake things up and bring the company forward.

[on time all the time]

4 years ago Tim Jeans position was very near the top. We have seen lots of changes within the company, Tim Jeans's position not evolving. So I predicted his departure having been not sidestepped but overlooked....He brought a lot of hope. He made employees very suspicious.

[PinkLady]

Fabulous! Now he knows how it feels but he will have a far bigger payout than the rest of us mere minions had.

[Fuel Crossfeed]

MON will be operating from Prestwick to Funchal this coming July according to PIK airport website.

Glasgow Prestwick Announces New Summer Madeira Flights. | Glasgow Prestwick Airport (http://www.glasgowprestwick.com/news-and-events/glasgow-prestwick-announces-new-summer-maderia-flights.html)

[Jamie2k9]

and from BOH.

[john2408]

Humberside also from 1/10/11

[planenut321]

And CWL:

22 August MON5844 CWL-FNC
29 August MON5845 FNC-CWL

[Chitty]

There are flights from manston as well

13 JUNE MON 5844 MSE-FNC 11.00-14.55
20 JUNE MON 5855 FCN-MSE 15.55-19.30
and
20 JUNE MON 5844 MSE-FNC 11.00-14.55
27 JUNE MON 5845 FNC-MSE 15.55-19.30

[mathers_wales_uk]

Does anyone have an idea what aircraft the CWL-FNC will be operated on please?

[Jamie2k9]

nearlt sure it will be a A320.

[Egon Maybach]

so this is the sort of lucrative stuff we can look forward to, to fill all those gaps left by Olympic eh? :rolleyes:

[SCANDIC]

Monarch could of taken OOOZ on lease.:)

[TartinTon]

There's plenty of stuff to fill the Olympic gaps...and at substantially better rates than those shysters would pay...if you don't like it Egon..there's the door...

[Monde]

Scandic - you are a man obsessed!!! I shall speak to Mr Welch about you!

[Egon Maybach]

TartinTon:

you know that for a fact do you? or are you just falling for the spin designed to put a positive light on an avoidable situation.:ugh:

[TSR2]

I notice that Olympic are using Jet2 flights from Manchester to Paphos next summer but offering ZB as an alternative at a supplement of +£52. Additional alternatives are Thomson at +£140 and Easyjet at +£8 to +£41 depending on flight combination. There is also a Jet2 alternative of +£163 which strangly is the flight included in the original costing.

[TartinTon]

Egon...I quote facts not the sort of snide conjecture which are the bulk of your posts.

[wesleyscott]

how irritating it is, monarch only allow you to checkin online if you pay for a selected seat. Surely this defeats the object of speeding up the checkin process. Now im going to have to queue. Thomascook are the same. There should be a "skip seat selection" button.

[Mr A Tis]

...and it's a waste of time if you are self checking in at Barcelona. The gate staff don't have a clue what to do with a home printed boarding pass. It involves you being taken to one side whilst your details are manually input at the gate & then they don't know whether to keep the pass or give it to you.:ugh::ugh:

[Airbus321-200]

Does anyone know if it was MON who operated an aer lingus flight to JFK on the A300 today?

[R T Jones]

Last night at Gatwick there was a monarch aircraft that called up asking what runway was in use at LHR. That a/c may have been postioning to do the flight today?

[im going in]

It was an A300 that operated the Lingus flight ex DUB today. The LHR bound aircraft was a 321 operating an adhoc charter.

[EISNN]

MON also operated EI flight to MAD from DUB yesterday. 4 MON a/craft were DUB yesterday I'm told ........ probably not all to be used as union busting flights though.

[Airbus321-200]

The 4 a/c in DUB were due to an ad-hoc contract which was on the cards for weeks. It was for a company to bring their staff to a conference. I hear the A300 did DUB-JFK. Fair play to MON for stepping and helping out.

[JonnyBfs]

Anyone got any more news about the Canadian work for Canadian affair. Any ideas of confirmed routes, aircraft type, start date etc?

Anyone know if they are doing the NCL Toronto??

Any info appreciated!



Its going to be a modified 757. Try visiting the "where we fly" section on Canadian Affair's website. Currently you can purchase flights for November 2011 through April 2012 but supposedly the summer work should be loaded on :confused:

Newcastle, is, I think Air Transat just
Routes: from what I've heard LGW-YYZ, BHX-YYZ, Gatwick to Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax. A couple of more also I think.
Sorry all I know!

[Hifly_MPilot]

I agree with Albert Hall’s comments:
“my understanding is that Monarch were trying to increase the prices which Olympic had paid for many years by a sizeable percentage. Olympic said no and have gone off to get other flying elsewhere.

Monarch has picked up a contract to do a total of five 757 roundtrips per week (using an aircraft with 30+ seats removed for the purpose) on Gatwick-Ottawa and Montreal plus a Gatwick-Toronto-Birmingham W pattern. That is hardly going to replace the gaping hole in Greece and Cyprus left by the end of the Olympic deal. Do you think Cosmos will be able to deliver? I doubt it.

And whenever they have tried to expand using Avro and Cosmos, they have ended up with both of those subsidiaries losing loads of money - so what's going to be different this time? As renort said, logic like that was the undoing of XL to a large degree.”

With regards to Goldtrail they were historically paying high prices and selling cheap – at a loss. And we all know what happens when you do this. It is silly of TartinTon to say that Olympic are “chancers”. Olympic has been around for a long time and when all the other independents have disappeared. I have travelled with them many times. Good service.

A lot of the Olympic flights are now sold as scheduled. As Albert Hall said, I would not be surprised if Monarch ends up losing a “bucket” this year again. Some are sold by Avro. The market will force them to drop the prices to sell.

[MANTFS]

I hear they have not got enough aircraft to meet the summer demand so we will just have to wait and see who is right.

[righthandrule]

Not enough aircraft to meet the summer demand? Surely any good flight planning/scheduling department would have had that sorted way before flights were even put on sale?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

How do you know that they have not sorted it, plenty of a/c you can sub in for the summer from around the world.
Just look at what TOM & TCX do each year.

[Serenity]

Monarch have often had more work than a/c at peak times (fact).
There are numerous ways around it, all well used by those in the offices.
They know what they are doing!!

[stuart-travel]

new tour company monarch flights from lgw/man
to greece,cyprus,egypt. may be monarch replacement for oylimpic holidays

[beardy]

Stuart-travel,

Could you put in the missing verb(s). I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[TSR2]

Dream Holidays appear to be a price comparison website.

[SW1]

Anyone know how many extra pilots they are going to need for the summer? I know they recruited around 10 in November. But can anyone confirm how many extra they are going to need. Decisions on appointments were supposed to be happening this week sometime.

[TartinTon]

Sorry Hifly but you're wrong. You actually hit the nail on the head when you said “my understanding is that Monarch were trying to increase the prices which Olympic had paid for many years by a sizeable percentage."

That's the problem. Olympic had not had price increases in line with the increases in fuel for whatever reason hence the reason they were able to stay in business. With the clearout at the top of Monarch they have gone back to get proper market rates from Olympic and they won't have it.

Essentially Monarch has ben subsidising Olympic. No more apparently.

A lot of the slack has been taken up by ZB, some by Avro/Cosmos and a line is due to go to Canadian Affair as already stated.

Fabio Mantegazza has gone on record as saying that Monarch will only deal with operators prepared to pay a proper market price.

Seems like common sense to me.

[TSR2]

Fabio Mantegazza has gone on record as saying that Monarch will only deal with operators prepared to pay a proper market price.

Seems like common sense to me.

Agreed ...... however, a direct comparison of holiday prices shows that Cosmos using ZB flights are more expensive than Olympic using Jet2 flights. Same dates, same hotel and flights more or less the same time.

Whilst I realise that there is more to the costing of a package than just the flights, maybe, just maybe, Monarch were asking a little more than the 'proper market price' from Olympic.

[MANTFS]

Were Viking asking for "the proper market rate" last year?

Maybe Olympic can only survive by undercutting the market - that is a problem they will have to address.

If an airline wants to undercut the market by not getting the proper market rate to fill capacity then I wonder how long an airline will be around - not long in Viking's case!

[airhumberside]

Dream Holidays appear to be a price comparison website.
There is another Dream Holidays, Dream Holidays Ltd, which is indeed offering Cyprus, Greece and Egypt from LGW/MAN

[SCANDIC]

I'd just love to see monarch add to their fleet thats all, i'm a big enthusiast when it comes to aeroplanes, i'm sorry if i upset people.

[TartinTon]

TSR2....not quite a direct comparison...Olympic will have contracted a block seat rate with Jet2 (assuming they aren't scraping their site or worse, ghosting the schedule of Jet2 only to move pax later on in the hope of contracting rates with a carrier at more favourable rates..they wouldn't be the first...)..Cosmos do not have a contracted block rate with ZB but sell depending on how the overall Monarch stock is selling (as part of the group). From your observations it appears that Monarch Group is in pretty good shape compared to Olympic/Jet2....Maybe Olympic are this years Goldtrail?

[partyboy_uk]

The Monarch Group is owned by the Swiss-Italian Mantegazza Family, headed by Sergio Mantegazza. A quick Google search should provide you with more information.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It is owned by a number of share holders but the main share holders are the Mantegazza family.
Light hearted banter over the years has suggested the Mafia, but this is without any foundation.

[X-Centric]

Tartin - from your seat in the ivory towers that is ZB res , can you give me an honest answer to these questions. How much of this Olympic debacle is totally their fault ?, and do you not think that just a little of it has been caused by the intransigence (and that's being polite!) of the new sales regime down in Crawley?

[PilotsOfTheCaribbean]

As my old Italian Grandmother used to say, God rest her soul.

You know Tony, somethings are good to talk about, and somethings are not so good to talk about!
This is a respectable company! You got it!

It is a subsidiary of Globus Gateway, which is owned by various investment holding groups, the largest being Amerald Investments based in the Netherland Antilles.

You ever been to Curacao? They say it is beautiful this time of year! Good for the diving. Your pilot friend at security, he knew that!

[TartinTon]

X, thanks for your input....not all of it is their fault. A lot of it must be laid at the door of the previous regime for not getting the required increases in previous years. You might want to call the new regime as intransigent....it's actually just the reality of the situation. The previous rates were below the required rate for the flying that they had. The new rates were what they should have been paying. Simple economics.

Hang on, the phones ringing.....better get that......

[Egon Maybach]

So the new commercial boss goes into bat to try and make do the wrongs of all those people who clearly weren't as brave as he was who went before him in the 12+ years olympic have supported Monarch (since before you joined I think TT) and his hard ball approach achieved.....nothing.
This prompts a phoney war in TTG and people like you trying to put a brave face on a patched up programme with more seats that ZB and/or Cosmos will give away.

[TartinTon]

Egon, his approach has rid the company of a parasite...we've been supporting their operation for years at the expense of our own. No need for a brave face when the company is in a better place than it's been for many a year.

Once again Egon, if you don't like it please leave...you and people like you won't be missed...close the door on your way out, there's a good chap.

[Hifly_MPilot]

Historically the chartered business of Monarch was making money. A large chunk from Olympic. The scheduled business and tour operations were always bleeding. Someone has given Fabio Montegazza wrong information.

There is a lot of gossip in the airports about the sales approach taken by Monarch in the market. Not only with Olympic. Whatever the case is, Olympic are now selling seats from TUI, Thomas Cook, Jet2 and others. Obviously they are paying the market rates to get the seats. Avro and Monarch have dumped seats in the market and the prices are squeezed. There are a lot of aircraft in the market. This is good for the public. Not sure if it is good for employees.

Does anyone know how many pilots are being recruited by Monarch?

[X-Centric]

Tartin - you don't get it . Some quite learned guys on here have been quietly suggesting to you that Olympic are not "shysters" or "parasites" at all - it is maybe , just maybe the fault of MON for being too greedy with the rates demanded this year . If i was in commercial and i had completely :mad:
on a big contract like this , then this is the spin i would put on it too - ie they are shysters , parasites etc , and blaming the former regime for allowing a situation like this to occur (sounds a bit like the current UK government!) . I wouldn't expect them to say anything else!
And if they went in to negotiations with the Big Mac school of management which you seem to endorse , if you don't like it etc , then there is no hope !
What with Dublin making no money and Edi (well , you tell me......) , and charter in general on the wane and :mad: long term , it sounds like MON are retrenching further south into a loco war (mainly with EZY) that they won't win imho. More simple economics?
This is just my 2p's worth , Tartin your loyalty to the "family" is commendable , but i think the good folk of MON deserve to maybe hear the truth rather than the ridiculous good news spin that is constantly in Monline!

[scotsunflyer]

Has the equipment been allocated this year for EDI yet?

With a full weekly programme out of EDI and SSH to be included. Was an A320 last summer, but rumour has it is to be a bigger aircraft for this year. Would an A321 manage to operate EDI-SSH, or would it be restricted in payload. TIA.

[Airbus321-200]

X-centric - who says DUB is making no money... maybe at the minute because there's no winter flights but in the summer its profitable and thats why MON go back time after time, same for EDI.

[scotsunflyer]

just a point to my previous question, the reason I was asking is that the EDI based crew for the summer have been told it will be a bigger aicraft due to more seats available this year, and they also have a meeting about the future.

Could this be year round Monarch at EDI to operate the new winter charters, or could it be a move towards Thomson basing an aircraft year round?
Sorry for all the questions

[Jamie2k9]

If Dublin isn't making money then why are MON basing a second A321 this summer??

[Airbus321-200]

And of course DUB must be making a fortune at the minute with 3 aircraft flying non stop for Aer lingus.

As far as i know EDI will have a 321 7 days a week based there for the summer.

[renort]

It'll be interesting to see whats being posted here at the end of this week :suspect:

as for the mob in Crawley - about as much use as Anne Frank's Drum kit.

[Airbus321-200]

Care to enlighten us renort?

[adfly]

Will Monarch consider updating/improving it's long haul product anytime soon as it seems to have been left behind by the other charter carriers(TCX, TOM) plus BA and Virgin. At the moment they only have a 30inch seat pitch and old-fashioned over-head ife. I know they say that the 787s will have a 33inch pitch but they won't be arriving for a while yet so I think an update to Mpnarchs long haul product would detinately help it compete better with it's rivals who seem to have left it behind! I mean c'mon their premium seat pitch is only 1inch more than you get in TOM/TCX's long haul economy classes!!

[Jamie2k9]

EDI = 757 summer 2011


Don't think thats right as most of MON B757's will be flying to Canada next summer. It's most lightly to be a A321.

[Mr A Tis]

As far as I know, the Canadian Affair summer schedule flights only require 1 x B757.
Mon LGW-Ottawa. Tue LGW-Montreal. Wed - OFF. Thur LGW-Halifax, Fri /Sat W pattern LGW/BHX - Toronto, Sunday - Montreal.

[Jamie2k9]

If thats the case then EDI may have a 757.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Yes only one (G-DAJB) operating on the Canada services.:ok:

[Albert Hall]

EDI = 757 summer 2011

As far as i know EDI will have a 321 7 days a week based there for the summer.

What? There is no Monarch programme at Edinburgh this summer. Thomson are basing their own 757 at EDI for a full week to operate the schedule and the only Monarch flying through EDI will be a couple of departures to Funchal.

The EDI programme has therefore ceased after many years but strangely, I do not see a rush of people calling TUI a bunch of shysters or Monarch making this into a pantomime act via the front pages of the travel trade press.

So far, we have:

- 250,000 seats from Olympic "removed" from the programme - equivalent to the capacity of four daily A300 flights all summer or three 757s flying two flights a day, every day for the summer.

- Thomson Edinburgh programme lost for a weekday aircraft

- Dublin weekend programme cut back from 2 a/c to 1 (i.e. the other part of the Edinburgh aircraft's weekly tasks)

And on the plus side:

- One 757 flying five flights a week for Canadian Affair

- A programme of one flight a week from various regional airports to Funchal

- Many of the ex-Olympic charters to Cyprus into schedules which will now be additional capacity into the Cyprus market on top of that with which Olympic are replacing Monarch to begin with.

Not a lot, is it?

MOD work is definitely helpful at present but MOD have apparently awarded a contract for this summer (and not to Monarch) and any airline relying on that for long-term business is naive to ignore the effects of Air Tanker, assuming that it ever takes off (which it is bound to at some point).

All of this points to Cosmos and Avro having to take up a huge proportion of risk to keep Monarch's fleet flying this summer. There are very few independent tour operators left to fill the gaps - they simply don't exist in anything like the numbers or seat volumes that they used to. And history suggests that the group makes a whacking great big loss whenever they try to expand Cosmos to take up more Monarch flying.

Now, did anyone else hear the rumour about the Mantegazzas doing a load of sale-and-leaseback transactions on the aircraft? Keep watching the data plates on the aircraft....

[renort]

Care to enlighten us renort?

what Albert said. Wasnt right to put anything on here last night

[CSman]

From this old timer,there would appear to be a number of subscribers whose only aim in life seems to take delight in running down certain companies,if you have been rejected at some time ,rather than run companies down, devote your efforts to finding out WHY you were rejected It is a wonderful life get on and live it

[Airbus321-200]

Well considering Alberts post has quite alot of inaccuracies i'm not that worried.

DUB is 2x 321s this year. When they have a 2 departures to ACE on saturdays, one at 0700 and the other 0730 i think this shows there are 2 aircraft.

The EDI contract which would have been done in September/October was upped to a 7 day a week programme unless someone pulled out and i'm sure it was Thomas Cook and not Thomson that the contract was for.

Id the news was about the EDI base i think its strange that they'd announce that now considering they signed that contract months ago.

[MANTFS]

Latest from TTG today, sorry to the merchants of doom but things seem to be going quite well!.


Monarch Airlines is increasing its capacity to Spain, Portugal and Cyprus in April after forward bookings for the month rose by nearly 50% year-on-year.

The carrier is adding another 31,000 seats into its programme for the month as a result of the rise in bookings, which it partly put down to the Bank Holidays for Easter being so close to the extra holiday for the Royal Wedding.

Extra flights will operate throughout April from Gatwick and Manchester to destinations including Lanzarote, Tenerife, Alicante, Malaga, Majorca, Faro and Larnaca.

The carrier is also bringing forward the launch of its scheduled flights to Paphos in Cyprus to April. They were originally scheduled to start in May.

Managing director Kevin George said, “We have been astonished by the soaring demand for Monarch flights in April, which we believe is being driven by the proximity of Easter to the additional bank holiday.

“Bookings for April are already up 49% compared with the same time last year with demand from customers still increasing.”

[captaintrigger]

According to the EDI airport website it shows monarch doing a number of flights this summer. Have a look at the charter flight timetable:

BAA Edinburgh: Charter flight timetable (http://www.edinburghairport.com/portal/page/Edinburgh%5EGeneral%5EFlight+information%5EFlight+timetables %5ECharter+flight+timetable/)

[scotsunflyer]

BAA website charter programme is only a guide. That was published in November

[Tight Seat]

Looks like a move to T2 is on the cards at MAN.

[airhumberside]

The EDI contract which would have been done in September/October was upped to a 7 day a week programme unless someone pulled out and i'm sure it was Thomas Cook and not Thomson that the contract was for.
The Monarch base used to be for Airtours/Direct Holidays, then Thomas Cook when they merged with Airtours. However Thomas Cook then cutback at EDI, and Thomson increased their programme taking over the Monarch based aircraft

Was EDI just a weekday only base last year? If so 'Albert Hall' is correct when comparing year on year. The planned increased Monarch EDI programme becomes irrelevant if it doesn't actually operate

[Tight Seat]

Dont forget that operating costs are higher when flying out of non-main base airports. So sometimes a more limited outstations flying program can work out cheaper.

Dont worry about Mons flying program for this coming summer, the aircraft and crews will be working to the limit, why else take on 10 more pilots ( and that may just be the first 10 of many!).

[fiftypercentchips]

What others have alluded to in certain posts is crucial to the future of this airline.

People talk on here of parasites and shysters. Adjectives that could be put to use closer to home. The heady days of sept 2008 could come back to haunt some people.

For those fantasising about whether EDI is a 757, 321, 7 days, etc. The office was emptied out today.

[Jamie2k9]

- Dublin weekend programme cut back from 2 a/c to 1 (i.e. the other part of the Edinburgh aircraft's weekly tasks)



Dublin will have 2 aircraft:

Friday:
Dublin - Ibiza - Dublin - Reus - Dublin
Dublin - Mahon - Dublin - Fuerteventura - Dublin

Satuday:
Dublin - Lanzarote - Dublin - Gran Canaria - Dublin
Dublin - Zakynthos - Dublin - Tenerife - Dublin

Sunday:
Dublin - Faro - Shannon - Faro - Dublin
Dublin - Faro - Cork - Faro - Dublin

[Airbus321-200]

That ZTH is a new addition on the programme. thats good to see.

[Jamie2k9]

Tenerife, Zakynthos and Fuerteventura are all new this year. They replace Malaga, Heraklion and the one less flight to Lanzarote which have being taken over by other carriers.

[Airbus321-200]

Right, everyone is talking in riddles in this forum so can people just come out with what they want to say.

1 - Is EDI getting the chop?

2- Whats the plan for DUB?

3- What kinda position is the company in?

[X-Centric]

1- Yes.
2- Depends long term on state of the Irish economy.
3- ok , they will be fine , but most of this is due to the fantastic crews and the diligence of all the staff in head office . They are however , compromised by having a shocking sales team south of the river.

[Airbus321-200]

Thanks X Centric, finally someone says it in black and white ( or pprune blue).

So what happened at EDI, the staff there were told they'd be having work for 7 days this summer.

[TSR2]

Last summer the ratio of the total number of weekly Monarch flights (not available seats) from Manchester was in excess of 2:1 in favour of Scheduled flights as opposed to Charter.

Whilst I appreciate that Scheduled flights generate the all important cash flow, and the Charter flights provide the flying programme for many Tour Operators, does anyone know which side of the business generates most profit.

[LGS6753]

For the last 20 years, Monarch has been gradually moving from all-charter to a heavy concentration on scheduled services. These flights have, when introduced, often replaced charter flights operating on similar days at similar times.
Also, perusing holiday brochures, ZB flights can often be seen alongside, or instead of, charters. This implies block booking by tour operators.
It seems to me that Monarch have pursued a very successful long-term strategy to protect their business, without too much concern about whether a particular operation is scheduled or charter. (Indeed, charter flights are often bookable as 'flight-only' through the charterers, including in-house Avro).
Thus the profitability of one side of the business or the other is probably very difficult to ascertain. Crews and most aircraft are 'shared', scheduled passengers may be travelling on an IT, and charter passengers may have just booked the flight only.
What matters is the success of the whole, and I for one am pleased to see Monarch gracing the skies 43 years after the delivery of their first Britannia!

[Albert Hall]

Apologies - my previous posting did have one inaccuracy, in that there are still two aircraft at Dublin. However the DUB programme will be Fri-Sun as the Thursday flying which used to operate on one of the aircraft has disappeared.

EDI position is correct - Thomson 757 is being based there and the midweek programme operated ex EDI over the last couple of years was for TUI.

Still doesn't change my fundamental position that the amount of business disappearing from Monarch's programme this year far exceeds the amount of new business gained/created and that this can only be a challenge ahead as there are increasingly few sources of business left to replace it.

[Jamie2k9]

Thursday flying which used to operate on one of the aircraft has disappeared.


2009:
MON - Dublin - Faro - Knock - Faro - Dublin - A321

2010:
Europe Airpost - Dublin - Faro - Knock - Faro - Dublin - B733
Czech Airlines - Dublin - Faro - Dublin - A321

Thursday has being dropped as Knock will be reduced and Dublin will be increased.

[mizake the mizzen]

Thomson/EDI

Very interesting that the planned MON unit in EDI is being replaced inhouse by a TOM757/233Y (very low utilisation)
Programme is still onsale as MON so obviously they havent updated their selling systems yet.
The Day6 EDI-PMI which was on sale as MON is now on sale as BE.

Day5 CFU 0600/1420
Day5 TFS 1530/0145
Day6 PMI (BE) 0700/1335
Day6 IBZ (BE9105/6) 0700/1400
Day6 LPA (TOM1654/5) 1540/0155
Day7 PFO 0900/1955
Day1 DLM 0700/1705 (on sale as MON5876/7)
Day2 PMI 'W' (ABZ I think) 0630/2150
Day3 nothing planned currently.
Day4 PMI 'W' MME (I think) 0630/2150

[scotsunflyer]

Sat PMI has always been shown as FlyBe, but as IBZ and PMI operating by Flybe, EDI only has E95 based there, so suspect one of these were planned for the Monarch aircraft.
Like wise on a Wed, although SSH showing as Lotus the flight times suggest a EDI aircraft, so again Monarch was suspected.

Would not be suprised to see some more added, possibly Paphos could go earlier in the morning or in the afternoon, and something added on the Sunday.
TCX have and Antalya due out in the evening on a Monday night, again TCX/TOM could both sell an allocation and use the TOM flight

Suprised Arrecife hasnt been added to the programme yet, but there is still time.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

You may be correct, overheard someone saying it was off also.

[JonnyBfs]

Yes, I'd be pretty sure it is. Recently searches for Nov 2011 returned Monarch flights when flying from MAN now back to TCX 757?

[sam1993]

Quoted from Olympic holidays:
Take it from us that we hadn’t even begun to discuss prices with Monarch when they decided to withdraw all capacity from us (after 15 years of successful co-operation). Even now, we haven’t been given any real reason but it’s clear to us that Monarch have their own agenda and issues.All seems very strange! :confused:

[Egon Maybach]

damn right, and it's peoples livelihoods and mortgages riding on these "strange agendas". Time for a clear out?

[TSR2]

Time for a clear out?

Thought they just had one.

[fiftypercentchips]

TSR2 - unfortunately nowhere near deep enough.

[Tight Seat]

gees give the new team a chance!!

[Egon Maybach]

6 years not long enough?:rolleyes:

[Chidken Sangwich]

gees give the new team a chance!!

Maybe Tight Seat means the new, new team that's only just been installed in LTN?

[DjerbaDevil]

sam1993:

Your quotation from Olympic Holidays is remarkable. Without doubting its validity, could you post the source if possible, press/radio/televison etc? Thanks

Take it from us that we hadn’t even begun to discuss prices with Monarch when they decided to withdraw all capacity from us (after 15 years of successful co-operation). Even now, we haven’t been given any real reason but it’s clear to us that Monarch have their own agenda and issues.

[TSR2]

Monarch have done very well in separating themselves from such a low end operator

I have never found Olympic to be a 'low end operator'. They have always been every bit as good as any other tour operator from my experience.


In favour now is likely to be a proper Monarch/Cosmos business model

Well it's taken them a hell of a long time to realise that, as Cosmos have never really been competitive in the tour operator market. A good move though.

[sam1993]

Djerba Devil, I ahve sent you a PM as it wont let me post the link on here! :ok:

[DjerbaDevil]

Thank you.

[MANTFS]

From another thread

"Just heard that Olympic have secured two aircraft from Strategic Airlines for their summer programme.

Strategic Airlines, isn't that the airline which had its French AOC revoked by the DGAC on safety grounds ? Seems the airline had a few Kelloggs cornflakes tokens left and traded them in for an AOC in Luxembourg. The French market is understandably up in arms and fails to understand how Luxembourg could possibly grant an AOC to Strategic, just weeks after the French CAA had revoked their French AOC."

Olympic obviously did find an airline that thought their rates were acceptable!

[Hifly_MPilot]

I am told from someone within TUI they will not be doing any flying with Monarch. Monarch was not approachable. On the Olympic Holidays/Monarch contract the view within TUI is that the Olympic management is respectable and Monarch withdrew capacity in a bizarre way. TUI is happy to supply seats and whole plane charters to Olympic. Monarch’s tactics of washing their dirty linen in public seems shoddy. All in all there must be something going on at Monarch but they don’t know what. The question is where will all the Monarch capacity previously taken by TUI and Olympic go?

Just for the record I was also told TUI was happy to use Strategic for their programme but a Czech airline offered lower rates than Strategic.