Monarch -2

[Mr @ Spotty M]

The decals applied to the window blinds are at this time only fitted to one a/c so l am told, which is "BT" the original new livery a/c.
So far the airline has not asked MAEL to apply them to other a/c.

[EGCC7955]

Can somebody answer me a question please?

Now that the MAN/LGW to GOI's are operated by A332's do they still stop at BAH to refuel or do they operate either way non-stop.

Thanks in advance to whoever answers

[MKY661]

Not 100% sure but i think they go straight to GOI and refuel there

[londonmet]

Not at the moment. Monarch have sold their 330's to the MOD and the Goa's are operating on the 300 via Kuwait.

[Skipness One Echo]

Don't thinksold is correct! It's just another lease surely?

[londonmet]

Sold their services...leased...chartered.

[chaps2011]

I think you will find that G-EOMA is on overhaul and G-SMAN flew from
GOI to LGW yesterday

[OltonPete]

The beauty of having flightradar24 and such makes tracking of some aircraft fairly easy.

The A330 mentioned is currently descending into one of the Gulf airports having left Brize (per the trail).

Outbound earlier this morning from one of the gulf airports was an A300 although not sure where this is going. Another A300 is showing GOI-MAN due 17.15 and the other two on ski flights.

So it seems one A330 and one A300 are in and out of Brize at present. I have certainly noticed the A300 inbound Brize this week and the A330 has been all over the shop but the latter seems to do mainly IT work such as Goa's with a little dash of MOD work as well - source flight.data24.com.

[MKY661]

One of the A330's (EOMA) is at MAN having maintenence done and getting the new decals applied. The second one (SMAN) which usually today does MAN - GOI - MAN has taken off from an airport near Oxford (im not sure what its called as i cannot find it anywhere but its in the Fairford area) and that has gone off to do a flight but im not sure where to.

[goldeneye]

MKY661 will that not be RAF Brize Norton.

[MKY661]

Sorry yes it is FR24 was mucking about a bit

[chaps2011]

It`s about this time that a lot of the army guys are having their half tour R&R
This runs from Nov thru late Jan I think for the guys in Afghan
and then there will be another series of runs I think June-Aug
It is quite complicated and involves a number of airlines and routes

[toledoashley]

Whats with the new Summer timetable from Luton... Tenerife is down to x3wk (Fri&Sat), Lanzarote x1wk (Thu). Looks like Corfu has changed from being a night flight to afternoons, Rome has gained a Thursday & Palma (both Saturday flights originate at Luton).
Anymore that I havent seen, and any changes from the other bases?

[sam1993]

Not sure what is going on with the Luton timetable. Some days see now see 5 departures in a morning. Either a lot of re-jigging to the schedules is required or perhaps the 5th aircraft that was due to leave will be no longer?

[Topspotter]

Heard mon are expanding at BHX this year How are they doing at other airports, is the ryanair factor having a effect?

[Airbus321-200]

Report: Monach A306 at London on Jul 26th 2011, stick shaker activates twice on departure (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=44927cd7&opt=0)

Report: Monach A306 at London on Jul 26th 2011, stick shaker activates twice on departure.
F/O puts flaps&slats up instead of Gear up.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I wondered when the report would come out, now l can find out what did happen. :(

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Heard mon are expanding at BHX this year How are they doing at other airports, is the ryanair factor having a effect?

Doesn't require any "hearing"; just look at the booking engine. :rolleyes:

Hint: Venice, Rome, Heraklion, Dubrovnik and Milan.

What is "the ryanair effect" ? :confused:

[peachair732]

So Monarch gave the big Elbow to the 787, well how long they planning on flogging those old A306Rs then both on some long haul and on medium haul high density routes. What will Monarch replace the A306 with for high density PMI summer and those TFS in winter. No more wide bodies on order and if the a306 leave and the odd remaining 330 does long haul, then what wide body will do high density charter. Seems to me there is a lack of true 757 replacement and also 767/A300 replacement for UK charter carriers who need such aircraft replacements. Monarch has kicked those 787s out of bed, but for what, a 321 cant do a banjul can it? Why was no 757.a300/a310/767 replacement for charter airlines considered by manufacturers, there is obv a clear need as evidenced by all those 757s, 767s, in the charter fleets of UK airlines, they cant replace them.

[pppdrive]

I was in the background (with Cosmos Tours) when Monarch started and then worked for them at Luton 1977 to 1985 at which time they were operating B720, B707, 1-11 and 737 aircarft. They were good then and sounds like they're just as good now although a lot bigger of course.

[CabinCrewe]

Condacension alert...... There is always one. So much for a "happy place"

[crewmeal]

Have you seen the new Scoot cabin crew uniforms? As soon as I saw them I saw a resemblance to Monarch's colours. Very trendy.

Scoot airlines | Singapore Airlines' budget carrier Sydney flights (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/sydney-first-destination-for-singapore-airlines-new-budget-carrier-20111201-1o82t.html)

[Mr @ Spotty M]

What winter TFS routes, the only flights that the A300 is operating at the moment apart from winter ski flights, is BJL and GOI.
You keep forgetting MON is reducing its charter flying to around 20% of its total flying.
Yes the wide body aircraft are great for some of summer and winter destinations, but what do you use them on at other times.
It costs around £2000 a day to park a A300 at LGW, which will soon add up in the winter months.
Maybe in the future during the summer MON might start to offer two flights a day to some destinations, replacing the wide bodies.
They are already operating two A320s a day to BCN on a number of days of the week out of LGW.
By the way l think you will find the A300 operating for a few more years yet, as they are currently looking to reduce the seating to 328 from 347 or 354 for next summer.

[Topspotter]

Not sure reducing your charter work that much is a good idea, it just means your going to have to do a lot better against the likes of ryanair easy jet etc, charter work has stood mon in good stead over the years.

[mike_oxlong]

It's alright, nobody panic, the "next big thing" is to enter the murky world of Private Jet broking.

Someone obviously hasnt told the heirachy that the typical margin on a private jet job is less then £250 at the moment, thats if someone isnt doing it cheaper. You'll have to do a hell of a lot of those to justify the six figure salaries in Crawley, before you start generating the sort of contribution of the Monarch adhocs they are supposedly replacing. None of that activity will do anything to get any MON aircraft flying, crews working or engineers fixing. And what is the reward for such a ridiculously flawed idea? a seat at the top table!

Just goes to show, being the most hated man in Aviation isn't such a bad gig after all.

[TartinTon]

mike, that's the funniest post I've read in a long time! I bet Mikey O would be really peed off if he thought there was a serious contender to his crown as "the most hated man in aviation" !! :D:D

[Topspotter]

From what i can gather mon need to lean up fast, far to many "chiefs" taking big salaries out and putting not a lot back, there is no way on earth they will survive long term against the likes of ryan air with the costs they have, perhaps they should look how their engineering division does things.

[SASKATOON9999]

Mike,
Your knowledge into the economics of commercial aviation leaves a lot to be desired. Monarch has successfully provided an aircraft broker service to the various divisions of the industry for a number of years already. Private Jets are the fastest growing division within aviation and showing little sign of ever slowing. Top company executives feel the benefits of security, convenience and a tailored schedule, whereas wealthy individuals from the Middle East or the increasing numbers of Eastern Europeans or former Russian states with significant wealth simply wish to use as symbol of status.
With private jet hire, you select your own airports. Skip congested airports such as LHR, JFK far from your actual destination, instead arriving minutes away at smaller airports such as LCY or TEB.
Whilst there is competition within the Private Jet charter business, tell me an element of aviation where there isn’t? Whilst I won’t be drawn into divulging commission levels or profit structure, I will let you know that potential profits for a professional broker willing to provide a bespoke service are significant. The private jet business is about all about having the right contacts and the right calibre personnel to carry off the deals. Monarch/First Aviation are thus, extremely well placed in the industry to expand into this area and provide such a dedicated service to clients.

[CabinCrewe]

... yawn :zzz:

[mike_oxlong]

SASKATOON - youve posted a fair chunk of cack in your time but that takes the biscuit.

[Aero Mad]

Sorry SASKATOON, what are you on about?? The very fact that you capitalise the words 'private' and 'jet' mean that one is forced to question how genuine you really are - and when you say 'former Russian', don't you mean 'former Soviet'? Very different. But to the point - what have private jets got to do with Monarch?

[Topspotter]

Keep up please, its got a hell of a lot to do with monarch and its future

[renort]

SASKATOON - where did your other hundreds of posts go? Did you delete them out of hubris once you realised what an @rse you had made of yourself. In which case I expect your post count to go down to three very shortly.
Unless you were being ironic in which case it was very, very funny.

[peachair732]

I think the a321 is good for maybe 70% of Monarchs short/medium haul but for some routes GIB comes to mind, that route was ideal for a 757 when the 320 was not enough capacity. The 757 can depart GIB with a full load, the 321 despite having less seats, cannot do this, there are other examples of the 321s limitations ithin the MON network, both charter and scheduled side. Sharm and some Greek and Turkish routes from Northern airports are best suited to the 757s excellent range and short field capability and also the ability to depart with no payload restrictions. I belive this is why Monarch keep hold of a few of the later build 757s in their fleet and I just do not know what the 757 replacement will be, the 321 cannot do the work of the 757 is some situations, True on short haul Spanish routes, the 321 is a cheaper option to the 757 bu there are many routes where the 757 is much more suited. Banjul is another route ideal for the 757, a 321 could not do the BJL from MAN with a full pax load the range of the 321 is not there.

The 757 is so well suited to many UK charter needs, that its telling that many of the 757s remain with MON, TCX, TOM, LS despite the 738 or 321 also being in their fleets.

[Topspotter]

Thought mon were going for a all B737NG fleet, or has the game plan changed again?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I agree with you that the B757 is a better all round a/c than the A321, but the operating cost is much higher than the A321.
You seem to be ignoring the point that MON, TCX & TOM are all replacing their B757 fleets with A320 Family aircraft or the B737NG.
BRI (TOM) made the decision in the early 90s, that they would get rid of the B737 fleet and in doing so stopped flying to a number of routes.
They also finished flying for the MOD as the B757 & B767 a/c were to big for the MODs requirements.
You can not afford to keep an a/c type just to operate a few routes.
The only reason MON are keeping the B757 at the moment is that the leases have time to run and when the leases are up they will go.

Who said they were going for an B737NG fleet?
MON are still in negotiations with various organisations with regards to the future fleet make-up, this is one reason why the 6 month lease of two A320s from Air Berlin is not happening.
You will have to wait for the future fleet make-up as we at MON are having to.

[MKY661]

this is one reason why the 6 month lease of two A320s from Air Berlin is not happening.

So they are not getting any A320's in March now?

[peachair732]

Seems to me fleet planning at MON is a bloody mess. The high profile 787 order was quitely dumped, leaving the long term long haul programme up in the air, a huge question mark why the 787 was dropped, delays did not help but financial considerations may have been a factor in the cancellation. I too have never heard rumour of the 738 entering with MON, They are focused clearly on the 321 for their scheduled and charter but the 757s and A36 are still very important and useful for many Monarch high density short medium routes, clearly these two fleets are on the way out soon but what will they be replaced with, more 321s? I guess so but I think the 757 and the A300s, well there isnt a clear current production aircraft available from the manufacturers. I think a few new 767-300s before they stop being built would be a good idea. If MON ordered a few 763s, these would be good for the higher density routes that the older 757s and A306s serve.

I know the 763 is not a new type but they are still being built and airlines are still buying them new, and I think MON should think about a few new 7673s, they have experience of the type already, as they have used older ones already.

I think GIB will have to be 320, the 321 is too payload restricted for this route. The 757 was ideal for GIB when the demand was higher than the 320. the 321s are economical certainly, but they are under powered and range restricted. Charter routes to Turkey, Egypt well I dont think an all 321 will be a good ide Time will tell when those old faithful 757s are gone, so many routes will have to fall with them, I think.

[MKY661]

I think GIB will have to be 320, the 321 is too payload restricted for this route. The 757 was ideal for GIB when the demand was higher than the 320. the 321s are economical certainly, but they are under powered and range restricted. Charter routes to Turkey, Egypt well I dont think an all 321 will be a good ide Time will tell when those old faithful 757s are gone, so many routes will have to fall with them, I think.

I go to GIB regularly with MON and it has always been an A320. I know the 757 has done it in the past but i think it was a long time ago since one went to GIB.

Some of the 321's ahve just done Egypt for the winter and by the looks it went well but think they are using the A300 this summer. I also know that EasyJet do the A320 to SSH from MAN so I can't see it as a major problem when the A300 & 757's go.

[peachair732]

The 320 has more range and can do ssh, a high config 321 will struggle with Man-ssh, high payload, range restrictions, etc. I know many have had to do an en-route stop, else it would be offload luggage. Not Good. The 321 is a dog for SSH, in charter config

[Airbus321-200]

Only a few months ago the rumours of a change to B737NG was doing the rounds and when the "big annoucement" happened the question was asked about it.
Plus the engineers where being trained on the B737NG but this doesn't indicate they are getting it just indicates that MAEL will maintain that fleet for someone.
Who knows with monarch these day. The airline has little direction these days and doesn't stand out from the crowd anymore.

[Topspotter]

It actually was a mon engineer who told me about the possibilty of NGs

mon are a great airline with a lot of history hope they get their act together ASAP

[peachair732]

Lets hope so, we need clarification. After the bombshell dropping the 787 order and now rumours of 738s! after MON has consistently stated it intends to aquire more 321s and has spent the last few years standardising on this type!! I ccant believe this about turn, if its true. This is how BMI came unstuck, lets hope Monarch does get their act together. I first flew on their 720B!

[Topspotter]

TBH the 737NG rumour is not new, i was told a few months back, things may have changed ,however they do seem to be in a bit of a pickle, lets hope some clear leadership comes to the fore

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Why do you think Monarchs fleet planning is a mess?
They know what the fleet size and make up is going to be for this summer and next winter.
They may also know what is happening for summer 2013, they are just keeping it in house for those that need to know for the time being.
The A321s have no problem with the routes they operate and l have yet to see fuel stops on the SSH, so please enlighten me.
Yes they are getting A320s in March, but not from Air Berlin, when the leases are signed you will be able to see where from on Jethros site.

[Buster the Bear]

I was told that the 'waiting list' for new Boeing or Aibus airframes was around 4 years unless a cancelled order was offered early, therefore the interim addition of the ex Air Berlin A320's is just that...interim.

[peachair732]

well if this 738 rumour is true then it seems odd, after Monarch has been building up an a321 fleet and stated this was the way MON would go 321 for both charter and scheduled so a 738, and it is only rumour and I hadnt heard it would be an odd aboutface. Also the 787, it was such a high profile order when they placed the order, MON was putting articles promoting the 787s introduction in their in flight mags, they seemed very sure of the order Mrspotty yet it seemed so out the blue when Monarch cancelled the 787 order and they seemed to just cancel out the blue. This doesnt seem like a confident fleet planning team to me. And Im sad to say this, as I have a lot of respect for the airline, well mostly pre Jeans and in the Bernstein era, MON was quality charter and the 'Crown Service' scheduled was a class operation.

[Topspotter]

The NG would i imagine fit in very well and give them more flexibility, however where would they come from?

[JSCL]

If Jet2 can find them, I'm sure MON can.

[Topspotter]

True but its finding enough and in the right condition that could be a problem, a mixed fleet would not be a option id say

[JSCL]

No doubt it's not an option. But there's a number of young 'Used' 738's on the EU market and a lot more in the US as the US market is seeing some better alternatives for types of routes they fly currently.

They're out there. Just depends if MON wants new gear or slightly used gear (as Jet2 have adopted).

[Skipness One Echo]

Ryanair are in the business of finding a good home for used B737-800s though i suspect the interior would need tweaked.......

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I would not say that Jet2 NGs are slightly used gear, they are operating some of the oldest NGs out there.
Now as for the Ryanair ones, well most airlines will not touch them with a barge poll.
You have a/c with fairly high number of cycles, but more important, engines that are close to major shop visits with the high cost that goes with it.

[Topspotter]

I suppose it depends on the deal, can monarch not do engine overhauls in house?

[SWBKCB]

I thought the NG rumour came about as being connected with the deposits paid on the 787's when they were canx?

[easyJet Jack]

I've read this last year somewhere on here, but anway, just incase it has slipped anyone's attention.

Monarch are operating an A330 out of NCL on Tuesday to SFB. Will be nice seeing a Spotty M in NCL once a week all summer up here!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Monarch can not carry out engine overhauls in house and l don't know of a UK airline that can.
You could be looking at a couple of million per engine if not more.
It would be interesting to know how much the Jet2 NG engine that went bang cost them in the end.
The B737NG rumour has been about well before the B787 option and order cancellation.

[LPFR]

I've talked with a Jet2 captain about it once and he said the 737NG engine that went bang had a final cost of around £4million.

[squeaker]

That's nothing, you should try running an Alfa..

[Blighty Pilot]

Is the optional extra hair dryer that's playing up again? Oh wait a minute.... I doubt you need that! ;-)

[peachair732]

I think that Monarch have decided that the 321 which they were praising from the roof not so long ago, saying they were the ideal short/medium fleet now are looking at the 738 as the 738 can do like ssh bjl much better than the 321. Just a little embarassing for Moanchs fleet planners one minute gathering more 321s the next wanting the 738. Guess MON have found the 321 to be a 'hairdryer' on the longer, heavier routes. Least the 738 they can even use for Banjul, the 321 cannot do that in its dreams! Monarch fleet planners are making me dizzy, 787 one day, cancel the next, lets go 321 then looking at 738, in secret, us public have yet to hear it.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I think you are being more than just a tad unfair there.

That the A321 has evolved into a magnificent short haul frame, there is no doubt, acknowledged even by Randy Tinseth at Boeing. Indeed, he views his company's rival to the A321 to be the B737-900ER, not the -800.

I rather feel the 738 will be left somewhat lacking on some of the routes you mention. MAN-BJL, for example, can typically have a sector length of over 2910nm. The Boeing "brochure range" for a 2 class configured B737-800, with winglets, is 3115nm. Go for an all economy config., and that figure goes south, quickly.

As Tinseth himself claims, the B737-900ER is the better candidate, by a small margin range-wise, but other than the defunct XL, the charter carriers have hardly been flocking to buy it, have they.

It wouldn't surprise me if Monarch decide afterall to go with the A320/321 NEO in the future, offering yet more range with improved economics; then we can be done with all these "The A321's no B757 replacement" comments; it was never intended to be, but they are slowly getting closer to achieving it, whether that was Airbus' objective or not.

[peachair732]

I dont doubt the 321 to be an economical machine, just doubt its suitability for some UK ex departure missions, particularly to the Eastern Med and Egypt. The 738 is better suited to these routes. I think the 737-900er an excellent aircraft and am only sorry no UK charter airlines has looked at it, other than XL. as it would be great for Thomson as a supplement to the 738, offering more capacity than the 738 but at not much more operating costs. Of course the range problem creeps up again. I still believe the 757 was the ultimate for UK charter carriers being at home on short or medium and even some long haul from regionals, albeit with a Bangor tech stop.

[TSR2]

How many of Monarch's 38 summer destinations from Manchester would the A321 not be suitable for?

Clue : Less than the FINGERS on one hand.

[JSCL]

How many of Monarch's 38 summer destinations from Manchester would the B757 not be suitable for?

Clue : Less than the number of Nostrils on your nose.

[New T2 Office]

Unfortunately, the operating costs of a 757 on the said routes are significantly higher than those of the 320/1.......I have been flying the 757 for Monarch for more years than I care to remember, and would love to fly it more many more years to come.........but the accountants I'm afraid will dictate what a/c I fly in the future!!!!!

[ATIS]

Regarding Monarch fleet planning. They made a brave and wise choice cancelling the 787. You only have to look at the UK longhaul market, and deduce that its taking a hammering at the moment. Longhaul APD to increase above inflation rate will only add to the misery. As a potential Monarch 787 driver, I was sad to see the cancelation, but what choice did they have. The leasing cost of such a brand new aeroplane will be out of this world. So flogging them to Tenerife and back won't cut it.

[CEJM]

Very well said ATIS.

However I don't think that the bun fight over who would 'drive' the B787 has yet finished. Or did I miss something? :ok:;)

[pamann]

Wiki was showing FAO ex Stansted for this summer. Any idea of the truth in this or who and when they are operating for?

[MKY661]

It was me who put it in. :s.There is on flightradar a flight that ran from STN to FAO which ran yesterday on an A300. Flight number was MON9168. not sure how long its running for.

[pamann]

Well it's definitely not summer yet and being a MON9*** I would hazzard a guess it's a one off ad-hoc and not a regular route that operates on a Tuesday in the bleak winter months.

[Cazza_fly]

It was me who put it in. :s.There is on flightradar a flight that ran from STN to FAO which ran yesterday on an A300. Flight number was MON9168. not sure how long its running for.

Why would you do that?

This was a CHARTER flight (MON) for a company/organisation that chose a Monarch aircraft. . .

[MKY661]

I would hazzard a guess it's a one off ad-hoc and not a regular route that operates on a Tuesday in the bleak winter months.

If it is I will remove it tomorrow. Wiki is down at the moment due to black out.

[pamann]

One example of why Wiki is NOT a reliable source.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It is an add hoc charter only.

[Topspotter]

Have to say i cannot quite understand MON game plan at the mo how the hell are they going to compete at say MAN with the likes of a rapidly expanding ryan air, easy and jet 2 ,charter works seems less and less important so whats the thinking?

[chaps2011]

My guess as it`s ex STN is it`s an MOD flight as I know my son came home on one last year
MON now do very little charter compared to a few years back as most
of their flights are scheduled ex MAN

[MKY661]

Removed it from Wiki, but I have added Cork as that is running this summer

[Mr @ Spotty M]

MOD flights normally go a little further than FAO, was not a MOD charter as far as l am aware.

[truckie]

It was a flight for a motor manufacturers product launch. An Ad-Hoc flight, as all 9 series callsigns are and as any true topspotters would know.

[renort]

WHEN did ANYONE, EVER say Monarch were getting 738's? and by anyone, I mean a director of the business, not someone who spends his spare time loading adhocs on wikipedia.

great rumour, but too many people are adding two and two and getting 738! whereas the company is trying to work out how to add two and two to get to Fourteen Million (p.a.)

[partyboy_uk]

Well, to be fair, KG did describe the fact that Monarch was looking at the 737 (I don't think type was mentioned) as one of the worst kept secrets in the company. People haven't just picked this up from anywhere. That Wiki entry has confirmed what I've been warning a friend about believing everything you see on there! An untimely removal of the 787 order info on there just before it was actually confirmed somehow reinforced its accuracy in his mind?! I will just point out that Monarch does not have a base in Cork, simply flights operating from there. And where does this information about flights for TCX from LBA in 2012 come from? Someone please enlighten me. That Monarch Airlines destinations page needs a bit of a clean up!

It was also said that the 757 was in Monarch's sights for disposal. How soon this will be we we'll just have to wait and see. It will be interesting to see what happens with the VIP flying when they do go. Whilst people chant on about just how versatile or well-performing the 757 is, if it doesn't make the company money (one Capt told me it costs on average 3 times as much per pax, though not sure how true this is) then there's simply no place for it in the company. The A321 is coping very well with the current network, including the SSH's. Personally, I would favour an Airbus replacement to keep with fleet commonality.

I know there are long waiting lists for new aircraft to be made (738's, 739's, A320/1 neo's etc.), but does anyone know if aircraft leasing companies only order aircraft for onward orders of their own or do they order based on forecasted demand? Is it not feasible for Monarch to lease aircraft they need on an interim basis and place orders for their own units to arrive at a later date?

[JSCL]

A/C leasing companies for the most part will not sit on stock. They order and maintain assets based on demand asked of them. The leasing company orders for the 787's are done only by request of airlines wanting them. They won't just sit on them - that's bad business. Some may have a handful of A/C sitting around, but it is unlikely.

HOWEVER! It has been known that for types with predicted high demand that they will sometimes sit on stock. The whole 73x range and the standard 32x range are a common option that leasing companies are likely to have tucked away, mainly because there is a constant demand still going on for them across the world.

[Topspotter]

Renort your havin a larf surely, it was/is common knowledge in mon that they were talking to boeing ref the NG

They do need to get their hotpotch fleet sorted just how much longer can they flog those anceint 300 and 320/757 a/c for? the engineering costs alone must be crippling not to mention the crewing issues .

[renort]

big difference between talking and doing TS

[Skipness One Echo]

They do need to get their hotpotch fleet sorted just how much longer can they flog those anceint 300 and 320/757 a/c for? the engineering costs alone must be crippling not to mention the crewing issue

Well except you can cross fleet on the A320/A321 and not sure if Monarch do, but the A330 has a very similar flight deck. So that leaves the B757 for the long routes that are beyond the A321 and the A300 for high capcity. It's not that much of a hotch-potch and as you are well aware, Monarch have in house and world class engineering in MAEL.

[RoyHudd]

Are Monarch reducing their long-haul operation? This is a sturdy rumour around the bazaars, perhaps elicited by the 787 cancellation.

[Skipness One Echo]

I believe so, look at Thomas Cook's rapid downsizing in the same market. It's not currently worth the candle, this was a driver in not taking the B787 after all as the return on the capital investment was no longer there.

[Topspotter]

Im sure mon engineering do a great job, but at the end of the day engineers aint cheap and the costs of maintaining and operating those old, thirsty and lets face it unreliable 300,s must be very high, and as they age even more the costs only going one way.

And yes RH i would say there out of LH as it is, the odd goa and florida is all thats left

[Skipness One Echo]

and the costs of maintaining and operating those old, thirsty and lets face it unreliable 300,s must be very high, and as they age even more the costs only going one way
Very low cost of leasing or depreciated ownership means they're not that expensive, though they lack reliability with age. They are not much older than BA's B737 fleet and the same age as some of BA's B744s.
Jet2 seems to have a similar philosphy.

[partyboy_uk]

Not quite out of long haul completely but limited in scope. This summer, planned long haul includes:

1 weekly LGW/MBA
1 weekly LGW/TAB/GND
2 weekly MAN/SFB
2 weekly LGW/SFB
1 weekly NCL/SFB
1 weekly CWL/SFB
(& 3 single flights during height of summer GLA/SFB)

This is in fact an increase on last year when the A330 saw places such as AGP, ACE, LCA and SSH. The news to the company about the future shape of the Monarch network was that long haul was not in its immediate term plans and "in the medium term, Monarch Airlines’ longhaul strategy will be strengthened against the background of a fully developed shorthaul offering."

So, as you can see, long haul is not off the agenda altogether.

[Topspotter]

Problem is how are mon going to compete shorthaul nose to nose with the likes of ryanair, their operating costs must be far lower, i know who id rather fly with but at the end of the day for most its bang for the buck than matters

[partyboy_uk]

The plan is to market themselves at a customer base in the middle of Ryanair and BA - low cost but with add on frills available for purchase

[londonmet]

partyboy_uk,

You mean the plan announced last May, the one that's resulted in NOTHING changing?

[partyboy_uk]

You mean the plan announced last May, the one that's resulted in NOTHING changing?Hey, don't shoot the messenger. That's not quite true anyway. A lot of what they said they were going to do they have in fact done: changed branding, interim tweaks to uniform and aircraft livery, new routes to Eastern Med, new crewing systems afoot, more changes in management I care to think about, iValue, iSuggest, Cosmos rebranding. They are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Whether you think they have been effective or not is something different

[easyflyer83]

The plan is to market themselves at a customer base in the middle of Ryanair and BA - low cost but with add on frills available for purchase


A fairly wise move to make but then they run straight into Easyjet.

[Tight Seat]

easyJet between BA and Monarch, think I've just wet myself. Last time I suffered easy , it was more Dan Air than Speedbird.

[partyboy_uk]

A fairly wise move to make but then they run straight into Easyjet Well yes, and I won't argue much with that. Although Monarch do offer pre-bookable meals and seats. They also have in flight entertainment on most flights over 3 hours (when available) and have announced that they intend to place Wifi onboard in the near future.

[MKY661]

Wifi onboard in the near future.

they were going to be the first UK airline to get it wern't they?

[CabinCrewe]

Dont BA have it on CWLCY A318 ?

[easyflyer83]

5+ years ago Easyjet and Monarch were poles apart, even after Crown Service had been ditched. Whilst Monarch have been sliding down the scale (I don't mean that in any derogatory way) Easyjet have been moving up. It's looking very likely that allocated/pre-bookable seating will be rolled out across the network, handheld IFE on A320 and Longer distance routes trialled at MAN and being rolled out next week at LGW. An extensive BOB product (a bit too extensive at times IMO) and really theres not an awful lot to distinguish the two other than the fact that Easyjet well and truly has Europe/North Africa/Canaries covered. Plus in respect of some of the new Monarch city routes Easyjet has courted the business pax quite well and has also done well in securing some corporate contracts awell as a some engagement with certain areas of the travel trade.

I really want Monarch to stick around as the name is one of very few that has actually survived thus far. Thomson and Thomas Cook are also old well known brands but they weren't airlines back when I was a nipper. All i'm saying is that today there isn't an awful lot of difference between ZB and EZY and Easyjet see's its position as being between FR and BA and I think the market believes that too.

[apaul]

At least Monarch has followed the OFT guidance on transparent pricing. By contrast, easyJet has decided to follow the Ryanair route of underhand trickery. I think easyJet will suffer a backlash from the 'administration charge'. It certainly deserves to.

[easyflyer83]

Make no mistake about it I don't agree with the admin charge either but I honestly don't think there will be any back lash. What it does need is some legislation that will force carriers not to adopt it thus levelling the playing field. And let's be honest, the admin fee is nothing like that charged by Ryanair. It's per booking not per pax and you can book multiple flights per transaction. The fee is more a kin to that introduced by Lufthasa than by Ryanair. Doesn't particularly make it right but just pointing it out. That aside, Easy has always had a very transparant website with tax included in fares etc. you can go online and book flights and get the initial flight price straight away. Even monarch used to advertise fares minus the tax.

Despite all that, what I said about Easyjet and Monarch being in the same position between FR and BA still rings true. It's just that my opinion is that easyjet is in a much stringer position both in network, market share, pax numbers and the fact it's a cash rich company.

[EI-BUD]

easyflyer; I realise that this is the Monarch thread, but wanted to respond to your comments.

what I said about Easyjet and Monarch being in the same position between FR and BA still rings true. It's just that my opinion is that easyjet is in a much stringer position both in network, market share, pax numbers and the fact it's a cash rich company.

I agree completely. The Easyjet Strategy is a robust one. 'Low Fares to Convenient Airports' and a distinct effort to be the business travellers choice are very clever. Differentitating in this way keeps Easyjet apart from Ryanair who are completely focused on cost leadership.

Easyjet will command a strong yield as they are positioning themselves at airports that typically Ryanair wont go to or set a base up at eg Malpensa, Amsterdam, Paris CDG, Gatwick etc. as a good price alternative to higher cost national airlines.

The business strategy is a good plus especially for winter, where if you are too leisure focused it can be extremely challenging.

Easyjet have a truly European brand and have had steady progress, I for one find them great. And Staff travel facility is not half bad either!

[MANTFS]

Ref transparent fees and what consumers think - these are some interesting stats.

16/01/2012 00:00:00
Monarch Airlines claims a record breaking start to January, with online sales revenue up 46% year-on-year so far in 2012.

The top three destinations for bookings in January are Dalaman, Sharm el Sheikh and a new route to Rome.

Since the start of the airline’s January Super Flight sale, which started on Boxing Day, traffic through the Monarch | Cheap Flights, Holidays & Hotels (http://www.monarch.co.uk) website has experienced a 25% boost in visitors, and a 30% increase in the number of online bookings year-on-year.

Kevin George, managing director at Monarch Airlines, said: ‘We are delighted to have experienced such a positive start to 2012; we are still seeing these figures continue to grow and expect much bigger days to come.

‘It is clear as our sales continue to grow that customers value our transparent fees, preferring to eliminate the element of surprise with additional ‘hidden charges’, such as unnecessary card payment fees.’

[Topspotter]

If thats true then a good start from mon, hope it continues

[DjerbaDevil]

Anyone know where the newly acquired A320-214 from Thomson(G-OOPP) will be based?

[Tight Seat]

Best guess Brum

[MKY661]

Anyone know where the newly acquired A320-214 from Thomson(G-OOPP) will be based?

Its going to Monarch?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Along with the other A320 to join the fleet, it will be used from any of the bases this summer that have A320 operating from them.
Monarch do not normally base a particular aircraft at one base unless it has a fundamentally different configuration from the others in the fleet.
Examples were "ZBT" & "ZBU" which were based at MAN for the first summer due to fewer seats than the other A321s.

[easyJet A321]

It appears that Monarch are operating flights to Orlando on behalf of Thomas Cook for S12. The flights are on a Wednesday departing MAN at 0930 as well as their own flights on Friday's and Saturday's. The flights only seem to be running during July and August.

[MKY661]

Examples were "ZBT" & "ZBU" which were based at MAN for the first summer due to fewer seats than the other A321s.

Oh yes. Remember that well. Used to go on ZBT all the time when i used to fly to AGP. They had nice leather seats, shame you dont have those anymore.

[partyboy_uk]

I've heard Monarch may be operating flights for Thomson to Cape Verde on the B757. Anybody have any more information?

[pinhammond]

Have never had a bad flight with Monarch. Used to be a gold card holder. Excellent service mostly out of LGW. Have never had a good flight with easyJet. Bad timekeeping, brash crews and speedy boarding is just a con trick. I hope Monarch go on to bigger and better things.

[MKY661]

Image Verification (http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Monarch-Airlines?sort=type)
I dont remember Monarch having 17 A321's

[Skipness One Echo]

G-OZBC less this one
G-MARA
G-OJEG
G-OZBD less this one
G-OZBE
G-OZBF
G-OZBG
G-OZBH
G-OZBI
G-OZBL
G-OZBM
G-OZBN
G-OZBO
G-OZBP
G-OZBR
G-OZBS
G-OZBT
G-OZBU
= 16

There's only 16 on that page not 17 as stated.

[MKY661]

Yeah i know. Very strange. Maybe it was affected because the A320's coming over (which i have heard are coming from TOM now). Anyways hope they fix it.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Just to correct your statement, the new A320s are ex TOM, not coming from TOM.
They are coming from DVB & BOC. :ok:

[MKY661]

The two new A320s are now at MAN along with another TOM A320. G-OOPP & OOPU will come over to Monarch as OZBW & OZBX. One of the A320's is now due to be in service in February now apparantly

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Yes three of TOM's A320s are at MAN and are either on end of lease checks or are due to start them shortly at MAEL.
MKY661, that is not what Jethro's web site is listing.
G-OZBW is due to join Monarch in February, but it may not necessary enter service that month.

[MKY661]

See it at the 'New Monarch Decals' forum
http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/471640-new-monarch-decals-3.html#post6987465

[RingwaySam]

Sam

Check the URL. Link returns 'Server not Found'

(Will delete when rectified

The URL wouldn't work so I deleted my post - Nik has also removed them from his blog now although they still show in google images.

[Egon Maybach]

Hideous. How in any way does that livery reflect the brand, longevity or quality of the airline. Cheap, garish and cluttered.

I'm now beginning to wonder if someone high up actually wants this all to go wrong.

[TSR2]

Additional to Cosmos, have Monarch launched another Tour Operator named 'Monarch Holidays' ?

[Flightrider]

I think everyone on this thread should be less concerned with the fact that the new titles are utterly awful (which indeed they are) than the prospect of the management team spending so much time messing about with various different versions of titles and logos plastered down the side of their aircraft that they have no time left to run the business. They go off and pick fights with easyJet on various routes, produce an awful set of schedules on the established Spanish markets for the coming summer which will turn passengers away, acquire more aircraft when they can't fill the ones which they have at acceptable returns, hire more crews to fly night flights which no-one wants to buy and then spend a fortune on paint - and keep going back to the ruling family every autumn for more money to keep this merry-go-round spinning. Someone has to call a halt to this lunacy.

[Airbus321-200]

:D flightrider - finally someone who sees whats happening.

I've just heard that there will be another aircraft going in for paint/decals and it won't be getting that new livery. It will get the Monarch.co.uk billboard livery.

Monarch is an airline that lost approx £45m last year but they seem to be changing the branding every year.... guess what.... changing the brand doesn't automatically bring passengers in.

Value for money, good service, good flight times (which monarch don't generally have) and popular destinations will bring the punters in. Bucket and spade routes just won't bring in the cash anymore.

I've seen first hand how airlines can be mis-managed into bankruptcy. I think monarch will continue to lose money and then will be forced to merge.

I have a huge love for monarch and their brand is the best asset they have.

[Topspotter]

I think your both right, unless they get their act togeether and decide just what there about then there finished, they seem to be blindly blundering along at the moment and looking at their programme i have never seen them so quiet.

[apaul]

Isn't Monarch flying more routes this summer? All charter/lo-cost operators have cut back on flights in the winter because it makes more losses than having the aircraft sitting on the ground.

[Topspotter]

They may well be, but whats the point if the aircraft are half empty?
Friend of mine who is a loyal mon customer has just returned from Goa, said the flight was a nightmare , fours hour stop in kuwait to refuel because they were stuck on a ancient old A300 instead of the 330 which they thought they were flying on, Why? because they are now being used for MOD work,.... so to gain a quick one off buck off the MOD they upset a lot of loyal customers who they may never get back.....brilliant.:rolleyes:

[sam1993]

TopSpotter, so from looking at Monarch's summer flying program (which isn't what I would describe as 'quiet'!!) you can tell if each aircraft is leaving half empty....most impressive!

On a seperate note, I agree with a previous poster who stated Monarch's brand recognition is one of the most important parts of the company - messing around with a different livery every time an aircraft goes in for repainting is certainly not going to help!

[Topspotter]

Your dead right about the brand ..so why do we all know that but the people paid a lot of money to run the company seem oblivious to what is one of monarchs greatest assets?? ...very scary

[DomyDom]

[....They go off and pick fights with easyJet on various routes, ....]

:=Er- Venice Milan Verona and Dubrovnik are not served by EZY from Manchester. Verona is a completly new destination for a scheduled route and is long overdue as it is a lovely city with a great opera festival in the summer. These destinations are all very popular with the more mature well healed customers - I expect yields to be high.

[Flightrider]

I didn't say anything about Manchester. But since you've raised the topic:

Gatwick-Dubrovnik
Gatwick-Heraklion
Gatwick-Milan
Gatwick-Venice
Gatwick-Barcelona
Manchester-Sharm
Manchester-Dalaman

all in head-on competition with easyJet. Birmingham routes are self-evidently not competing with easyJet as they don't fly from there, but easyJet's introduction of a sixth daily flight on Gatwick-Barcelona as soon as Monarch appeared ought to have been something of a clue as to how they would react.

The Manchester-Venice, Dubrovnik and Milan routes just compete with Jet2 and/or Flybe instead. That's much better, isn't it. :ugh:

[qwertyuiop]

Ok Flightrider,

You build a schedule with no competition.

Why shouldn't Monarch go up against Easy, J2 etc?

[Mr A Tis]

Well, they could have gone double daily on some days on MAN-BCN to attract more business pax, rather than head to head with EZY on LGW-BCN.
They could also have gone back to MAN-Jerez/ Cadiz where there is no competition.
Other destinations from MAN with no competition are Vienna, Bordeaux & Porto. It depends whether they really want to rely 100% on bucket and spade pax. Their on board product is pretty good compared to many. They do need to decide what their market is...........oh and stop messing about with the paint.

[MKY661]

I thought Jerez was only done because they stopped GIB

[Topspotter]

Theres no reason whatsoever why mon should not go directly up against the likes of jet 2, given the choice i would not think twice about it, mon are in a different class, they just need to get back on track and stop fixing what aint broke

[Chidken Sangwich]

Why shouldn't Monarch go up against Easy, J2 etc?

Because MON will blow their brains out as proved by the EZY response on BCN.

The RYR and EZY boats sailed about 10 years ago, MON are still on the beach trying to pump up the dinghy.

[renort]

Monarch are still suffering from the identity crisis that started when Danny left, and the 'industry experts' were brought in from outside who have done nothing except haemorrage cash with no real clue as to what they should be doing.

There will be no more bailouts till it starts to make actual money. So a good time to start painting aeroplanes in ridiculous colour schemes. Clueless.

[peachair732]

Monarch has been in an utter state of confusion since Bernstein left. Crown service dropped, ok faie enough they needed to act like a no frills carrier but they did alinenate many customers who couldnt see why they should pay that little bit extra for basically a no frill service where before they were getting meals, newspapers, etc.

The hard product, the fleet planning is well confusing, one minute they want the 787s so very badly, they advertising them in their in flight magazines years before they were getting them, only then to quitely go cold and get rid of the 787 like if it were a disease.

The 757s are filling a niche on routes that the 321 cannot handle, rangle/payload wise. The 300-600 is at home on short and medium/long, take Banjul? what would that route be without either a 757 or a A300? Monarch is dragging their feet, they know they have to replace those few remaining 757s but are struggling to find an aircraft with the capability. The 321 sort of seems the answer, its just fine and dandy on your 3 hour sectors nut the longer mid sectors, well get all those 220 passengers checking in 2 cases each for their hols, a wind on the tail, a high temp t SSH and well they wouldnt make Man without a tech stop in some cases, very expensive business!"

[TSR2]

well get all those 220 passengers checking in 2 cases each for their hols,

At Monarch prices I think not ;)

[toledoashley]

Sometimes Monarch have some good ideas, then go and ruin it by doing something stupid. Thier onboard product is excellent; allocated seating, extra leg room seats etc... all designed for flights of 4-5hrs in length. So what do they do... launch City routes like Barcelona, Venice, Rome etc, where people are less likely to buy that product.

For me they need to be looking at expansion in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Greece and the Canaries, flights of 4-5 hours, to more UK bases, rather than chase easyJet with a more expensive and less flexible product on city routes.

[Topspotter]

I agree, However there does not appear to much joined up thinking going on at mon at present.

[purplehelmet]

Theres no reason whatsoever why mon should not go directly up against the likes of jet 2, given the choice i would not think twice about it, mon are in a different class, they just need to get back on track and stop fixing what aint broke
can you explain why you think mon are in a different class:confused: both seem to offer a similar service if you ask me.

[Topspotter]

Well firstly i have yet to hear of the CAA ever grounding a mon aircraft for not being airworthy, a jet 2 757 was recently, thats not rumour its fact

Secondly ive flown with both operators numerous times with the job and mon are in a without doubt better, the aircraft cabins are in great shape and they appear not to be held together with gaffer tape as jet 2 are, the toilets seem to work as opposed to jet 2 who it seems allways have at least one toilet inop

Thirdly ive yet to suffer a technical delay with monarch and they always appear to leave on schedule, in stark contrast to jet 2 who seem to suffer endless delays, and the on time stats appear to back this up

Finally the on board service is generally of a far higher standard

To sum up, if jet 2 were a town it would be called stockport.

[horatio_b]

I have no connection with either Jet2 or Monarch, but as Jet2 have just been
awarded "best short haul airline" at the Globe Travel Awards, this would indicate that
all passengers do not share your opinion of Jet2

[easyflyer83]

To sum up, if jet 2 were a town it would be called stockport.

Be careful with your analogies. Stockport is actually a fairly affluent town.

Jet 2 has had it's fair share of tech delays lets be honest but when things go right (which is the overwhelming majority of the time for most airlines) there is not an awful lot of difference between them and Monarch. Monarch for it's part has an excellent engineering division, it has heritage and relatively good brand awareness in the UK.

But which is currently the strongest carrier? I'd probably say Jet2.

I was shouted down a few pages back for suggesting that Monarch's product is very similar these days to Easyjet. I still believe this to be the case. Easyjet are gradually raising the bar such as by trialling allocated seating, flexi fares and IFE on certain sectors. Meanwhile Monarch has come the other way and pretty much meets Easyjet. Again, not a dig at Monarch as I think the no-frills with add on's was necassary.....Crown Service would never have survived. As it is, Easyjet have also adopted the no-frills with add on's mantra.

Do I think Monarch should be going down the "Cities" road? They've operated MAN-BCN for a number of years but they've pretty much been the only operator on the route and BCN is a very leisure orientated destination which is Monarch's core competence. Indeed, Monarch actually does the leisure routes well. They don't particularly offer anything special or anything to particularly differentiate themselves but they do have brand recognition and, to an extent, a loyal customer base. They don't really have alot of brand awareness down route but with plenty of ex-pats, workers and second home owners in many of these destinations, it's not always needed.

Despite the economic turmoil people seem to be making sure hell freezes over before they sacrafice their main holiday and this should be helping in some way. But the amount of times people fly away on holiday is probably falling and yields are probably taking a battering too. Therefore in theory going down the Cities route where people 'need' to travel, who travel more frequently and tend to pay more for their ticket might not be a bad idea. But again Monarch needs a greater brand awareness and the ability to compete with flag carriers and the Easyjet's of the world.

[purplehelmet]

ha ha ha! oh tospotter how your childish remarks make us all laugh..
of course the caa grounded the damaged 757. but that could have happened to any aircraft at any airline.
inessence your saying that because you've been delayed with jet2 and not monarch blah blah blah, there c**p.
as for stockport its a town much like any other.

[jet2impress]

Probably a little biased here as I work for Jet2. But here are a couple of observations I've noticed..... I can't remember the last time I got on one of our a/c when a toilet was inop. But this does happen. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Jet2 have 1 inop toilet on each of their a/c? Hum?

I have flown with Monarch in the past and do recall seeing a few cabin 'trim' issues that needed rectifying. Flew on an A300 a couple of years ago to find the fwd toilets inop (not sure if it was actually inop or just for crew convenience), a large section of carpet was missing from the aisle in the mid cabin... maybe 8 rows worth and the other side in the same location there was a large bump/ruffle/trip hazard in the aisle carpet! On another a/c, an A321 I think, the locker above me was taped up with 'gaffer tape' I guess the latch was u/s and all the floor level lights that were mounted in the sides of the seats had ADD stickers on them, I'm not sure if it was on both sides of the aisle or not. The A321 on the return flight seemed tidy and I didn't notice any issues. The thing is, ALL airlines will have little things like this that are carried all the time and Monarch are not immune to these problems either. :ugh:

[Topspotter]

Er no PH, it couldnt happen to any airline, it could only happen to a airline whos aircraft were deemed to be unsafe because they had not been maintained correctly ,for the CAA to ground a aircraft for not being airworthy is rather a big deal, and reflects very badly upon the operator

I recall that to add insult to injury, the CAA refused to allow Jet 2 to try and rectify the problem and monarch engineers ended up sorting it out.

[easyflyer83]

I recall to add insult to injury, the CAA refused to allow Jet 2 to try and rectify the problem and monarch engineers ended up sorting it out.

To be fair I don't think the CAA would mind who did the work as long as it was up to their standards. It may well be the Monarch engineering did the work but I doubt it was under the CAA's stipulation.

[jet2impress]

I don't know the full details, but I seem to remember that damage had been caused to a door frame due to a door rigging problem. It was a very complicated repair and I believe boeing had to be consulted for a fix. From what I was told, Jet2 simply didn't have experience of this issue to be able to carry out the repair and Monarch was used for their expert knowledge of the 757 instead.

[purplehelmet]

yawn! so the door was broken, and then the door was fixed.
however i fail to see why you big up monarch all the time,they offer very little if any thing at all different to any other holiday/charter/loco airline.

[purplehelmet]

That dear helmet is a matter of opinon , But when the CAA start grounding aircraft for safety reasons then i get a bit nervous, call me wimp if you wish but there it is

As for stockport being a town like any other thankfully thats not the case stockport is quite unique in its awfullness

Stockport Town Centre | Chavtowns - Britain's worst places to live! (http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/2004/11/stockport-town-centre/)

Sums the hell hole up rather well

id be a lot more nervous if the caa didnt ground aircraft for safety reasons.
like i said stockport's a town like every other town in the uk.
p.s. derby's hardly the garden of eden,or is it luton you come from this week? either way there just as bad.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This thread is now closed. Too much trolling going one. I have banned one and I will quickly ban others if it occurs again.

Someone can start another Monarch 3 thread with pleasure. Trolls and idiots keep out.

PPP