DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[NorthSouth]

I wouldn't get too excited about this as a sign of Peel's commitment to DTV. Vic Brodrick, the Peel rep going to the Routes conference, is as far as I can make out the Commercial Director of Peel Airports Ltd, which doesn't own DTVA. He'll have been going anyway in order to represent Liverpool/Doncaster.
NS

[N707ZS]

I see the new proposed Amsterdam service says J31 and Fokker 50s, which boneyard will they get these from?:}
Does Victor have the net in the big house?

Have we ever got any routes from the routes meeting.

[Jamesair]

Maybe that's where the Wizz route came from

[Northbound A1]

If you hadnt noticed the posting on the Europort thread, the word prospective routes doesnt sound too good from their main man.

[DTVAirport]

Wizz did originate from Routes as well, I think Bristol and Brussels with Eastern also did and possibly a couple of the Ryanair routes.

[N707ZS]

Good luck then with Routes.

[NorthSouth]

So when he says We want to open up the south side of the site for freight distributiondoes that mean air freight, or just road? The wording looks rather ambiguous to me.
NS

[DTVAirport]

I've heard from more than one source that when Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited took over the airport from Peel Airports Limited, the south side was included in the deal and is now part of the airport again.

Of course that doesn't mean to say they will use said land for aviation-related development.

Before the sale I heard that Peel plc had been spooked by talk of an enquiry in parliament and that's why they gave the land back.

[N707ZS]

The current planning permission is for aviation related business only which could be anything. Having the runway, railway and roads is ideal.

[skyman771]

Great!! we'll apply for funding for strategic utilities Peel ask for goverment funds to put roads, drains, gas, and electric in on the south side
I'm with "Northbound" on this one. All this does is facilitate anyof the options available on the Southside, now or at any time in the future. My question is do these MP's who are attempting to join the band wagon really know as to what they are supporting ?
The press reports certainly don't appear to be avaition specific. Another potential U turn in proposals for development ? as ever this all seems to be more rhetoric without the publishing of a sound, practical and realistic business plan.

[N707ZS]

I wonder if they will revive Skylink. Still active on their website.

Your search results - Peel Land and Property (http://www.peel.co.uk/landandproperty/sitesearch/default.aspx)

(You need to search under Durham Tees Valley).

[SWBKCB]

Feed back from routes - usual fluff.

The low cost carriers we met were looking at airports that don't already have strong links with Ryanair or Easyjet, so that put us in the frame


let the speculation begin...

Tees airport bosses hope talks will lead to new flights (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/9728757.Tees_airport_bosses_hope_talks_will_lead_to_new_flig hts/)

[Fairdealfrank]

Hope something comes of this and that MME can get a LHR route up and running (the airport management reckons it's vital).

A change of name to "Middlesbrough-Teesside" would help!

[Northbound A1]

A fellow passenger arriving for a stop over on a KLM flight told me that Peel doesn't support some local businesses on the airport site.

There are 2 hotels within the airport grounds, but the DTV airport website doesnt even list the Spa hotel for some reason?

One of the other 2 hotels favoured by the Peel website is 10 miles away!

Durham Tees Valley Airport Hotels (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/booking-centre/airport-hotels.html)

Could it be that they are wanting the small local hotel to go under and get even more cheap land near the terminal to put drains in?

I had to laugh at the mention of the £6 tax on the Peel DTV website.
"Secure our future with the Passenger Facility Fee"!
What a load of cobblers :rolleyes: Even Maggie Thatcher couldn't have come up with that one to tax the public!
Durham Tees Valley Airport – Hotels, Car Parking and Flights (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/)

http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/assets/_files/cached/img/280x130/sep_11/peel__1315834884_DTVA-PFF-280x130.gif?access=994T184 (http://www.dtvapff.co.uk/)

[skyman771]

There are 2 hotels within the airport grounds
So does one presume that these hotels have leases with DTV in respect of their properties ?
I'm not so sure that at least one of these hotels does have a lease with DTV....:confused: ?
Another reason is that perhaps the hotel does not meet the airports standards:E However would this not be a case of "the pot calling the kettle black!":hmm:

[N707ZS]

Peel might own the St George Hotel.

[Northbound A1]

As previously mentioned, the ex MOD site down the road from DTV in Eaglescliffe has today been given planning permission to build 850 homes, a nursing home, and shopping centre in Eaglescliffe, by Stockton Council. Peel wont be happy :E

The site is on the N.E. end of the runway at a range of about 1.5 miles. Cant see many people wanting a cargo centre running night flights over their heads.

Allens West - Durham Lane Eaglescliffe Stockton on Tees - Location (http://www.allenswest.co.uk/location.html)

The ex mod site down the road is very small compared to the whole DTV site but still manages to plan for 850 houses.
According to this article its 115 acres.
NAMA working to raise value of land before sale (http://www.business-sale.com/news/article/nama-working-to-raise-value-of-land-before-sale-34924.html)

This is the developer who seems to have the midas touch as mentioned in an earlier thread. At least he bought the land without conning the councils to ontain free land and shares like some airport Empires we know....

BBC News - Old Eaglescliffe MoD site housing redevelopment plan on hold (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-18012134)

Stockton council will be coining it in from the council tax generated as predicted.

[uklad007]

Not to derail the conversation onto council tax but at 850 houses at between 1000-2000 per year council tax (as a ballpark figure) is anywhere from 850K GBP to 1.7mn plus whatever the tax is from the commercial property taxes and out of that they need to pay for road maintenance, street lighting costs, infrastructure and public services costs i can't imagine they are going to reap or coin in loads from this - plus will people migrate from within that councils boundaries i.e what will be the net gain to the area on population, the developers and central government are the bigger winners here. More worryingly is the proximity to DTV to bring it back on topic, that said other busier airports in the UK have more housing close to the airfield like Heathrow, London city, Gatwick to name a few.

[N707ZS]

Sounds like we have a case of Bart Simpson and Sideshow Bob.:ok:

[MARKEYD]

Is there a second TFS flight this winter ?

[sam dilly]

Two Lourdes flights this Friday morning.
A321 + 737-500
So somebody loves the airport, might make it look busy for a while.

[highwideandugly]

Be a miracle if they operate on time...

[sam dilly]

2 Lourdes charters, 350 passengers to check in and the baggage belt system fails.
Oh dear !

[N707ZS]

Baggage belt system needs some investment unfortunately its a well known fact.

[highwideandugly]

Sam...this just shows how poor the infrastructure is at the airport.a couple of extra flights and they cant manage..:ugh::ugh:

I also heard the inbound flight had to hold over Manchester for 40 minutes because the airport wasnt open!! great advert for the airport!!

methinks PEEL are going to have to spend a lot of money and very soon.

interesting news about newcastle and the re finance..maybe some hope there for us?

[Mickey Kaye]

"methinks PEEL are going to have to spend a lot of money and very soon"

Some would think that Peel have no interest in airports and will turn them all into shopping centres, business parks, prisions or what ever gets them the best return.

[Northbound A1]

The 2 Lourdes flights are due back into DTV, do you think Peel will give all the passengers in wheel chairs their £6 tax back for the old baggage belts failing??

Nah neither did I :hmm:

Haven't been through lately, have they started digging for the new drains on the south side yet? Did hear that the Eastern flights havent been in either??

[SWBKCB]

Did hear that the Eastern flights havent been in either??

Eastern usually reduce flights around holiday periods due to reduced business travel

[Northbound A1]

DTV loses out again, and they
already had a fire training centre on the field! :rolleyes:

Aiport to support offshore training programme (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9757724.Aiport_to_support_offshore_training_programme/)

Come on Mr Peel get your finger out.

[Hipennine]

So, the Council and other worthies want to back public money being spent at MME on creating a Logistics centre:

Durham Tees Valley Airport's £6m plan to create 1,500 jobs (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9759591.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_s___6m_plan_to_create_1_5 00_jobs/)

While another Council and worthies want to stop the same happening at Carlisle. What a strange world we live in !

[Northbound A1]

Call me sceptical but the old Peel "10 year plan" has been raised again.

Could it be they just want to build an industrial estate, and when the air cargo side doesnt work out they will have a nice new set of buildings which they will own, which was all paid for by the tax payer again?

If you want to see what they can do with an airport have a look at the site of Sheffield Airport. Its an industrial estate now owned by the Empire!

The politicians are being duped by the Peel Empire again. :rolleyes:

Something to think about - Cargo moves by night.
Does anyone think the hundreds of new houses now being built on the flight path at the end of the runway are going to allow that in the future??

TNT (cargo) stopped flying into DTV and now ship all their air cargo up to DTV by road. Cant see them changing that anytime soon, but we are talking about the Peel 10 year plan again arent we.

>> Wasnt it just ten years ago that Peel were promising to spend £20m and turn Teesside into a super airport including the valuable land on the south side as a cargo centre?? Oh yes thats why they got the whole airport for £500k!

Peel Plc should get a job with Cameron as his spin doctor, but its only public money they are after isnt it :yuk:

[highwideandugly]

Yes thats all so true Northbound and while nero(peel) fiddles the airport disintegrates.
The May figures out in a day or so..what will they bring? More of the same I would guess.At this rate the airport is too far gone to save.

the news about lost business for the fire ground only accelerates the process..

I will be amazed if FRL/Cobham are still here at the end of 2012.And just where is that extra much lauded extra teneriffe flight?

[davidjohnson6]

CAA provisional stats for May 2012

13,628 passengers for the month, down 16.5%
175,058 passengers for the last 12 months, down 24.8%
8,406 passengers on the Amsterdam route, down 7%, no figures available for NCL yet

[Northbound A1]

The latest spin about the £5.9m Peel scheme for the south side.

Cautious welcome for Durham Tees Valley Airport jobs plan (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9762997.Cautious_welcome_for_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_jobs _plan/)

Me thinks they just want the free government money :rolleyes:

[DTVAirport]

It won't be as simple as getting free government money, the government will check to make sure the work has been carried out.

[SWBKCB]

It's not 'free money' in that any grant won't cover funding for the whole development - Peel will be stumping up as well, and yes, it is monitored.

Regional Growth Fund | Policies | BIS (http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/economic-development/regional-growth-fund)

The cases at MME and CAX aren't comparable - at MME planning permission has already been granted for the area for which development funding is being sought, at CAX the argument is about whether planning permission can be granted and whether the proposed aviation element of the development is viable (personally, I think the Sheffield City analogy is more relevant).

Two sides to every story - can you imagine the fuss on here if Peel weren't chasing every funding opportunity? "Oh, Peel aren't serious about developing the airport - they can't even be bothered to take 'free money' of the government..." :rolleyes:

[Hipennine]

The fact that PP has already been granted at MME and not at Carlisle is irrelevant to the principle.

At Carlisle it is being opposed because the Council believes that it may be just a front for a road based haulage depot and warehouse facility. Whereas at MME the very same thing is being encouraged. In both cases it may bring extra jobs and etc., but it's happening at both because airport land tends to be flat and accommodates big sheds. At MME there is nothing in the public domain yet that
evidentially ties the proposed investment into development of the actual airport facility and function.

Of course Peel will have to stump up money for the development - that is their business: speculate to accumulate. But if they can speculate on the cheap by getting a big lump of public money, that more than compensates for the losses incurred in the short term with the inconvenience of having to operate an airport.

Peel are expert at "accessing" public funding throughout the UK. There's nothing illegal in that, and that's what the shareholders expect any business of that nature to do. However, as a local council tax payer, I do get annoyed at the commercial naievty shown by our elected representatives (aided by some of the highest paid local government chief exec officers) in dealing with them.

[SWBKCB]

The original point made was that the two councils involved were acting contrarily, but they aren't and on this point the two cases aren't comparable.

The planning permission at MME is for aviation-related development, so is linked to the development of the airport. In my own view, Peel would be quite happy for the airport to prosper, so long as they don't have to spend to much to make it happen, as it will make their development plans easier to pursue because of the goodwill it will generate for them locally. If it doesn't, they'll use smoke and mirrors to lay the blame elsewhere and then persuade the local authorities they've done everything they can and get the aviation related restrictions lifted.

At MME there is nothing in the public domain yet that evidentially ties the proposed investment into development of the actual airport facility and function.


From the DTVA website:

Media Centre*|*Press Releases*|*Airport submits funding bid for major development project (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases/airport-submits-funding-bid-for-major-development-project.html)


The ‘Southside’ project will take around ten years to complete and today Peter Nears, Strategic Planning Director for the Peel Group, stressed that, as well as delivering significant new employment, it would help to safeguard jobs at the airport.

He explained “There is planning consent for aviation-related employment in the Southside area and the proposal we have submitted to the Government would generate around 1,500 new jobs.

“This is a very significant project, not just for the airport, but the area as a whole and we have worked closed with the Tees Valley Unlimited Local Enterprise Partnership in the preparation of the bid. We are very pleased that it has the written support of the LEP and the Homes and Communities Agency, together with Stockton and Darlington Borough Councils.

“Since becoming the majority shareholder in the airport earlier this year we have made clear that it is vital for the future of Durham Tees Valley that we develop the full potential of the whole site and the funding we hope to gain through the Regional Growth Fund will enable us to provide a link between the existing airport activities on the north side of the runway and the new employment land to the south.

“Whilst there are a wide range of possibilities for attracting businesses related to aviation activities, we expect that a key element in the development will be logistics services, given the proximity to the A66 , leading to the A1 and the national motorway network.”

In the case of CAX, I think the council would like to grant permission in case Stobart's follow through with their threat to move out of the county completely. However, the case for development is so flawed it looks difficult for them to do this legally.

[Northbound A1]

This character who was well known at DTV is after a new job if Peel are interested ;)

Fawlty towers Manuel had a similar saying "I know nothing"!

Airline conman Victor Bassey "can't be deported" (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9765701.Airline_conman_Victor_Bassey__can_t_be_deported_/)

Who is he?

Exactly who is airline conman Victor Bassey? (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9765700.Exactly_who_is_airline_conman_Victor_Bassey_/)

He wasnt as clever as Peel in the spin department. Any news from the Europort lot :hmm:

[Hipennine]

SWBKCB, selective underlining there ! What about the last sentence ?

“Whilst there are a wide range of possibilities for attracting businesses related to aviation activities, we expect that a key element in the development will be logistics services, given the proximity to the A66 , leading to the A1 and the national motorway network.”

So what are these "businesses related to aviation activities .....that will generate 1500 jobs" exactly ?

Northbound A1 - you beat me to it !

[SWBKCB]

Selective yes, as I was pointing out that the southside development has been pubilically linked to the north side airport operation. Don't think too many of us will be surprised if the majority of the southside development ends up being 'logistics' based, with only the most tenuous links to the airport.

The airport is a good hook for Peel to use to reel the LA's in - and in that case, there are strong comparisons between MME and CAX.

[Northbound A1]

I think most people on here have caught on to Peels plans for the airport, but have the politicians who are now trying to obtain even more public money to fill the Peel coffers?

Will there be another 10 year caveat in the small print where Peel can turn around and tell the councils to take a walk.

Ten years ago Teesside belonged to the public through the councils. Hugh and his associates gave the place away! :yuk:

"So what are these "businesses related to aviation activities .....that will generate 1500 jobs" exactly ?"

Hip you got it in one :ok:

[Northbound A1]

DTV history over the last couple of years enclosed. It make interesting reading. Anyone know if Hugh is still a director with the Empire, and did they ever receive the compo from BMI?

Teesside Airport News (http://www.teesside-airport-guide.co.uk/news/)

[davidjohnson6]

Northbound - with 175,000 passengers per year, and Newcastle at 4,500,000, do you really think MME will still exist as a commercial airport in 10 years time, regardless of any caveats ? In 2010, Plymouth managed 100,000 passengers - by the end of 2011 it was closed

[Hipennine]

SWBKCB, I think we are basically agreeing. Note I originally said "evidentially" linked, and by that I mean an objective rationale of how they will be linked, not just press release fluff saying that they will be, which is all the Peel statement is.

[Northbound A1]

Davyjohnson6, I agree with what your saying, but I dont think an aviation cargo facility will ever take off at MME. How many times has the same south side project stumbled at the first fence. They did get a fence out of the ONE grant.

Dont get me wrong I want to see the airport back at the 900,000 pax mark of 2006 as I use it, but with Peel running the place into the ground I cant see it happening now, or in the future unfortunately.

Another question: does anyone know why TNT stopped their air cargo flights into MME and began shipping everything up by road? :confused:

[DTVAirport]

The TNT flights stopped because some bean counter at TNT decided it would be cheaper to move the operation to Poland, when that turned out to be more expensive, I believe the guy got sacked. MME was one of about three UK airports that got the chop, I think CVT was another, may be wrong though.

[N707ZS]

Think the 06.00am opening time didn't help much with cargo for places like Leeds. At one point they had the 727s and occationally an extra aircraft was needed.

With the new factorys coming on line in the region there just might be a need for just in time freight. Car parts company Nifco is not far away they have just invested millions in a large new plant.

[Northbound A1]

Noticed on the Coventry thread that the CAA stats have been added.

DTV is listed as having 20,879 movements for 2011, where as Liverpool had 69,000. DTV Private flights counted for around 6600 movements.

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/204900-coventry-120.html

The CAA link for 2011

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/2011Annual/Table_03_1_Aircraft_Movements_2011.csv

Do the Peel Empire still own Liverpool or did they give it to VAS under the last Peel share deal?

[davidjohnson6]

VAS decided they wanted out of MME - the shares were all transferred to a different subsidiary of Peel

[Northbound A1]

News from the Peel Empire themselves.
More new roads using regeneration grants with a suggestion that this one could generate 20,000 jobs and investment of £1bn :hmm:
Tax payers money building the new road. Construction to start at the end of the year.
The airport director quotes that the road link will place Doncaster Airport at the heart of Sheffield... didnt Sheffield have their own airport until Peel bought it?
Airport Link Road Gets Planning Approval - The Peel Group (http://www.peel.co.uk/news/airportlinkroadgetsplanningapproval)
Peel Plc do seem to know their way around the government grant system. I wonder if they have someone on the inside?

And if you fancy a fly in at the Peel Annual Aviation Day. Not sure if they have a £6 passenger tax :E
City Airport & Heliport (http://www.peel.co.uk/news/cityairportandheliportannualfunday)

[pug]

Northnbound, you may want to look into how much the plans have changed for the Doncaster link road. When they were told they would have to fund some of it themselves, it strangely now doesnt actually reach the airport :rolleyes:

Sheffield City Airport was bought from the local authority for £1, so in effect they got some of the best development land on the M1 for nothing!

See also Media City Manchester.

[Northbound A1]

While browsing the Leeds and Doncaster threads I noticed this bit of news due to be officially announced next week. Cant see much hope for any further London links to DTV with this operators 3 new flights into Leeds.

Post by LBIA today on Leeds thread:
*Another Press conference is been held next Wednesday, june 27th. This is expected to be the official announcement of the new 3x daily London-Heathrow service by British Airways.*
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/339552-leeds-5-a-82.html

Leeds must have something which Peel arent offering at DTV, and its not the LVP's :ugh:

[johnnychips]

Post by LBIA today on Leeds thread:
*Another Press conference is been held next Wednesday, june 27th. This is expected to be the official announcement of the new 3x daily London-Heathrow service by British Airways.*
LEEDS 5

Leeds must have something which Peel arent offering at DTV, and its not the LVP's

I thought this was a route to be introduced to guarantee BA kept its LHR slots until something better came along. But I do stand to be corrected.

[SWBKCB]

New Heathrow northern routes?
While browsing the Leeds and Doncaster threads I noticed this bit of news due to be officially announced next week. Cant see much hope for any further London links to DTV with this operators 3 new flights into Leeds.

Post by LBIA today on Leeds thread:
*Another Press conference is been held next Wednesday, june 27th. This is expected to be the official announcement of the new 3x daily London-Heathrow service by British Airways.*
LEEDS 5

Leeds must have something which Peel arent offering at DTV, and its not the LVP's

Previously discussed from post 1980 onwards - one of the things LBA has that MME doesn't is one of the UK's largest Financial centre's outside of London on its doorstep.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

yessir, Leeds has fog about 30 days a year. DTV and Donny both manage to miss out on this most days.:)

[ted320]

Thomson filghts are out for Summer 2013 - only 1 weekly flight to PMI with a Monarch flight number.

[DTVAirport]

There never was a Summer ALC?

[P330]

I have to say given recent positive comments coming from the airport, I was hoping that Summer 2013 would start to look more positive, particularly in terms of charters. So, one flight a week to Palma....hardly sustainable and definitely not growing. Sigh.

Still only just over 11 months until 2014 details are released....

[N707ZS]

Britannia used to run an all year ALC flight on a Tuesday 738s, 757 and the 762 for the summer not long ago.

[skyman771]

Still only just over 11 months until 2014 details are released....
Little chance of DTV operating with it's current structure this long.
Plenty of hot air from all corners, political & otherwise, on many topics including the restoration of an "essential" London link, reality would however appear to be something much more unpleasant:(

[Northbound A1]

Skyman is correct, and the various comments on Peel's other airport threads such as Doncaster and Liverpool have some interesting comments on Peel pulling the plug!

JSCL's post on the Donny thread is very interesting about what a Peel chap told him.
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/487054-doncaster-sheffield-2.html

How many airlines use DTV per day during the week? 1 or 2?
Does it cover the wage bill or is the £6 tax doing that?

[JSCL]

JSCL's post on the Donny thread is very interesting about what a Peel chap told him.

You'd be surprised how open a conversation can be when playing golf.

[SWBKCB]

But MME isn't owned by the same company as DSA and LPL...

[Northbound A1]

With all the comments on the DSA thread Peel must be still pulling the strings. With all the different share's going here and there to new Peel companies, does anyone know who owns what? Are VAS just a share smoke screen for all the share sales?

One things for sure the councils don't own DTV anymore!

This northern echo letter by Stan author of Goosepool made me wonder.
If Peel decided to withdraw the ILS at DTV due to costs like they did at Sheffield, would that be another easy way out for them again?

Its worked once for them! Could the councils do anything to stop them?

Airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/9474495.Airport/)

Whats the state of DTV's internal infrastructure these days?

[SWBKCB]

MME is owned by Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peel Group. The LA's own 11% of Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited.

DSA and LPL are owned by Peel Airports Limited, which is 65% owned by Vantage Airport Group (formerly Vancouver Airport Services) and 35% by The Peel Group. As far as I am aware there are no other connections between Vantage Airport Group and the Peel Group, so Peel are only minority shareholders in DSA and LPL.

[Northbound A1]

As mentioned on the Doncaster Sheffield Airport thread.

A bit of Peel history and what they own according to Peel.

Historic timeline - The Peel Group (http://www.peel.co.uk/aboutus/timeline)

The Peel owner is now worth £2,075 million!

He lives in Billown Mansion on the Isle of Man if you want to ask for a new baggage belt for DTV :bored:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Whittaker_(businessman)

Its all about land and not aviation with Peel.

[Northbound A1]

Noticed a comment under this newspaper article about Peel from a liverpool chap.
Revolt over Peel Holdings chairman John Whittaker's land deals - Business News - LDP Business - Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldpbusiness/business-local/2012/02/13/revolt-over-peel-holdings-chairman-john-whittaker-s-land-deals-99623-30317070/)

The comment below the article.
"2:46 PM on 13/2/2012
Hope this guy doesnt buy anymore of this region..it just lies dormant and derelict ..nothing much moves with Peel unless there are government subsidies to help it along. Dont trust him."

Hmmmm :rolleyes:

[SWBKCB]

A1 - did somebody from Peel scare you as a baby?

Despite yards of innuendo all you seem to be saying is that Peel are property development company who will make use of any Government funding that's available - is that it? What do you expect them to do?

[paarmo]

From the result it would appear that talks between the airport and Thomson did not go well. Not surprising really as the same team who encouraged Globespan and Ryanair to fly in direct competition with them ( at more competetive rates?) are still in charge. If Peel were serious with their expansion plans then surely they would have recognised this and done something about it. No contact with the Thomas Cook Group. I don't really know where they will go next.

[DTVAirport]

paarmo, it's not the same team, in fact quite the opposite, it is in fact a completely new team compared to the one that brought in Globespan and to a much lesser extent, Ryanair.

As for Thomas Cook, the last time I checked they were more likely to go under than MME is!

[dwlpl]

I thought Peel had a big cull of managers in most departments.

[skyman771]

DTVairport
I believe it is ! in one guise or another. "WeDo" :rolleyes: are now appointed.
You will note a certain familiar name "EmmaO"..... & if you still need convincing then you can read a load of :mad: on her link Emma Ormerod - United Kingdom | LinkedIn (http://uk.linkedin.com/in/emmaormerod)
I note the undoubted experience (not to say success;) ) in her dealings with airlines................
Funny but I'm now seeing another dimension as to the past workings of DTV's marketing activities:suspect:
Also may be of interest to note that previous "colleague" KQ didn't last in the aviation business despite grand titles such as "Airport Director" & "Operations Director" at DTV / Cardiff...Kerry Quinn - United Kingdom | LinkedIn (http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/kerry-quinn/49/bb0/13a)
In noting both CV's the Peel certainly didn't appear too demanding as to qualifications for posts within their aviation activities:E
It would in retrospect be hard to defend the observation that perhaps they were simply just going through the motions...............and that subsequent events at DTV were to an extent inevitable !

[Northbound A1]

SWKCBE, why should I have been scared. My points are valid one's.
If Peel aren't interested in aviation especially at DTV, they should hand it back to the councils for the pathetic £500k they paid for it as the promised investment never did appear. Its just lip service like the Sheffield debaucle.

If DTV's ex MD Hughy Lng hadnt given DTV away to Peel at least they might, and I say might, have someone in charge who wants airlines to use the place. The hundreds of acres of DTV land would also be still in the publics (councils) hands as well not some private firm grabbing cheap land.

Dont you find it odd that in 2006 DTV had 900,000 people walking through the doors spending money without having to pay the £6 tax, and now they only have 175,000 (2011 stats) :ugh:

SWKCBT, Just to make it crystal clear for you, my points are to try and keep the airport open as I use it, and dont really fancy a drive to NCL or LBA. Peel on the other hand just want to shut it from what I can see. If their activities are exposed they might reverse what I can only see as a permanent closure in the not so distant future :rolleyes:

[highwideandugly]

NIL...absolutely nothing from these guys.

If i was the people with the purse strings I would be looking big time at the economics of the place. For instance..Saturday no flights after 5,,why keep the lights burning until closure at 10?

last posting is correct and skyman as always correct..its a shambles.Peels reputation(not only here but at DSA) is a joke.. they must be immune to the damage they are causing to themselves and the Tees area.

Time to get out peel and leave a little bit of goodwill by passing control back to the local authorities.

I said in earlier posts that nothing will happen new flights wise until 2014..it could be too late..but if Peel are happy to waste there money..well lets take it and hope for the best!!:

[VentureGo]

Seems everyone's now coming to their senses re. Peel Group et al.... Unless LAs take control for the whole Teeside/Durham region's interest, rather than "Sops" to Peel's "claims" of having their interests in DTV?!?! then, 5 years or less down the line the words will echo "Told you so!" There are only 2 choices now to choose: Pressure on Peel to bring DTV's performance to over 1m passenger traffic p.a. with plans to increase further. - or withdraw LA and other financial support and cut losses, support Newcastle (or LBA for south of the region) and improve surface express links to these airports and subsequently attract longer range, increased frequencies, and better North East links. - I hope it's not the case ... but you can only flog a dead horse for a limited time. Note: Manchester's success in the North West. Maybe the time has come to concentrate the whole region's support for Newcastle's expansion (Very publicly!) and benefit from increased volume this may bring to our wider region.

[skyman771]

VentureGo
There actually is the ultimate irony in your lasting posting, in your talking of an airport for the whole North East region. The seeds were sown many years ago insofar as to NCL's setup & development asfar back as 1935 but the reality is that it was nothing more than a field with a few wooden buildings & a 5,200 ft runway until as late as the mid 1960's, with it's only ground transport link being the meandering single carriageway A697.
At the same time there was Middleton St George some 40 miles down the road surrounded by a significant majority of the region's heavy industry, with an airfield that offered more potential for development i.e. better land lie, more space & better (at the time) oportunity to develop a significant runway suitable for then longhaul operations.
The rest as you say is history.... NCL won !!!.............
Why is what this thread has been pontificating around over the past few years, and alas I suspect, offers very little oportunity to discuss much other of relevance directed specifically at future development.:(
Post Script
On reflection then to add to the point I have made, back in the 60's as a child more fortunate than many, I was taken on foreign holidays by my parents who at the time lived in Newcastle. In 1964 we flew to Italy from NCL, a hut being the departure terminal & collected our luggage on return from a trolley in a freight shed. This situation remained largely unchanged until early 1967 when the new terminal was opened.
Conversely in 1966 we flew from Teesside to Majorca on same aircraft from a brand new purpose built terminal building, having been coached down from Newcastle. For all extent & purpose at that moment in time one can assume that DTV as it is now known was a step ahead of NCL & that the pax (who were able!!) were willing and did travel the 40 miles with poor transport links.
IF ONLY.................................

[highwideandugly]

Just spoken to mate who should have flown ABZ to here yesterday..diverted to Newcastle not because of the monsoons....but because Teesside didnt have the fireman to cover the aircraft according to the pilot!! he was on a jet and its usually a prop!! Is this the thin end of the wedge as I know the fire service has been cut recently at DTV ? No wonder we cant attract flight...:ugh::ugh:

[NorthSouth]

JumPing ship before being pushed out by Peel maybeor perhaps the DTV fire operation being contracted out to this bunch so that fewer can do more for less?
NS

[Northbound A1]

"NS..or perhaps the DTV fire operation being contracted out to this bunch so that fewer can do more for less?"

Doubt it as the Sembcorp vacancies are for a chemical plant.

Question:
Did Peel buy the 2 or 3 farms and farm land (near the southside land) which was up for sale and commented on earlier in this thread?

[skyman771]

Northbound A1
Did Peel buy the 2 or 3 farms and farm land (near the southside land) which was up for sale and commented on earlier in this thread?
Making an enquiry on the Land Registry Office website (for a fee!) is probably the only way you are going to obtain any information. I can't see as to any of those contributing to this forum being in a position to help.

[skyman771]

Northbound A1
Just a comment on the amount of data you are referring to on numerous links. I feel that you are now substantially diluting the focus of this thread. Whilst I share many common views as to Peel's objectives, perhaps a more appropriate way of directing attention to your concerns is to consider opening a separate Peel ("haters"?) thread !
All the financial information provided in your numerous links is obtianable from "ONE" site, Companies House on their webcheck link". The sites you have attached links to, merely appraise this data and offer little else.
As a point of thought, Peel may be considered as today's villains, but they could not have envisaged being in their current position if it were not for the incompetence of yesterday's "lunatics" that ran "the asylum" :8 long before Peel were on the scene at MME.

[OldManJoe]

Skyman, I agree. This is getting so boring. We all know Peel shafted the airport in the past.
Go look at all the other airports in the North and see what their finances are like.

Let's say the banking crisis gets worse and the banks decide to call in the debt. Who would be left standing....... Mmmm......... I think DTVA will still be there.

[DTVAirport]

Just to clear a couple of things up once and for all, I've had it confirmed by a couple of sources that:

# The Lourdes passengers were definitely not charged the £6 PFF

# The south side land belongs to the airport and not some other Peel division

Furthermore, from what I've seen and heard since the takeover, Peel no longer have a hidden agenda of any kind and money is being invested behind the scenes.

I know this will be too much for certain black-and-white-tinted spectacles-wearing folks who are probably just scared of the prospect of a little competition to believe, but trust me, effort is now being made - serious effort.

If I was to make a controversial comment, I'd say I hope the damage caused by the previous regime is not permanent, but again, from what I've seen and heard, there is more than enough opportunity to (in the long term) build a very nice little operation and I can assure you Durham Tees Valley Airport ain't going nowhere.

[N707ZS]

And in addition to DTVAs comment the firemen are getting two more extra staff and not getting employed by another company.

[SWBKCB]

The south side land belongs to the airport and not some other Peel division

But the airport itself is owned by another Peel company, it's not an independent entity?

Peel no longer have a hidden agenda of any kind and money is being invested behind the scenes.

So by implication there was a hidden agenda before??

Good to hear that money is being invested behind the scenes and I'm sure everybody is looking forward to seeing the impact of this. My concern is whether there is sufficient commitment to keep on investing and supporting losses until there are some decent returns.

Is this a genuine investment approach, or are Peel putting in just enough to keep things ticking over and be seen to be making an effort and keep the local politicos sweet?

the damage caused by the previous regime

isn't the previous regime largely the current regime? What's changed?

[highwideandugly]

All the effort behind the scenes will not come to anything if there are no airlines willing to commit and no passengers willing to fly from our local airport.

Facts remain no sign of any improvements this or (so far) next year in extra flights.June figures out in a wek or so and as usual will show the huge decline continues.Its not a bottomless pit(or is it)
It may be taken out of our hands if peel decide they can not sustain their losses?Hope they dont bank with barclays!!

Oh well look forward to some good news soon...

[DTVAirport]

SWBKCB - yeah the south side is still owned by Peel obviously, but it's the same Peel that own the airport and not a different Peel, so the fenced off land is no longer separate and I believe the fence will eventually come down.

I think it's pretty clear there was a hidden agenda before, you'll be hard pushed to find anyone at the airport who disagrees. As for what's changed, the entire managerial team has changed for one, remember, Hugh Lang was seen clearing his office under supervision!! (Slightly off topic, but it's also worth noting Prestwick only got busy after he left). Also, a lot of the Peel staff are different now as well.

highwideandugly - as much as Peel are trying to get airlines in and as much as we'd all like to see airlines in, the four walls of the terminal are only a small percentage of an airports business.

People look at Newcastle and Leeds and think they're successful but they're really not, look at how much debt Newcastle is in, the airlines are reportedly paying next to nothing.

[highwideandugly]

DTV interesting points about Newcastle and Leeds.Cant really speak with any authority on the mess they are in,but it begs the question if the airlines are paying next to nothing to operate through there how can DTV attract anyone.Does it mean we like Leeds will have to pay a vast amount of money just to cover potential losses? im sure its not going to work that way.
I thought Newcastle were refinancing so that they will be OK in the future??

You say its not just the passenger through put(thank goodness) that matters.But can anyone give a run down on what business is actually making money for the airport? ?? I know Cobhams(rumoured to be cutting back) and the Falcons (probably reducing in the future due to aircraft replacement needs-Falcons cant go on forever and the RAF scale backs) What else generates enough cash to keep the airport going on a day to day business-Anyone??

interesting times continue but I love the optimism..we need you on the peel/airport board of directors!!:D

[SWBKCB]

Hugh Lang was seen clearing his office under supervision!!

But did Hugh (or anybody else based locally) ever have any power?

Don't forget it was Vancouver (professional airport operators) who decided that they didn't want DTVA in their toybox and when they chucked it out it was Peel (professional property developers) who picked it up again.

And was Sheffield City ever going to be a success when it could only take Fk.50/Atr size aircraft? LPL is a far better comparison for DTVA - underused aviation facilities surrounded by plenty of developable land. The question is are Peel prepared to spend the money or are they just going through the motions?

[Hipennine]

Sheffield was probably never going to be a success given the restrictions of the site, but I think the wider point is that Peel were able to recognise that, and then effectively get the development land at a cost lower than might otherwise be expected. NorthboundA1 is demonstrating that they have a bit of a track record in this respect, and then accessing more public funding for the developments (there's nothing wrong with a commercial business exploiting every opportunity that they are able to recognise and take advantage of). However, the frustration with us local rate-payers to MME is that our councils and quangos seem to have failed to recognise Peel's modus-operandi, and therefore may be guilty of the same giveaway of an asset that we as ratepayers have invested in, and then coughing up more public funding for the development.

[Barling Magna]

Airports earn money in many ways, of course, and landing fees and parking fees assume reduced importance if they can generate income from retailing, car parking and so on. But most important of all will be income from MROs and other based servicing and industrial/commercial organisations. SEN managed to keep going for years without scheduled services and made a small but viable profit from its MROs which included ATC Lasham, Air Livery and many others. My point is that well managed airports can survive without making money from landing fees.......

[NorthSouth]

there's nothing wrong with a commercial business exploiting every opportunity that they are able to recognise and take advantage ofI understand Barclays Bank have been quite good at following that philosophy.
NS

[Hipennine]

Aaaah NS, but so far I don't think Peel have been accused of cheating !

[NorthSouth]

Perhaps, like Barclays until a couple of days ago, no-one's looked yet because we're all supposed to believe nowadays that there's nothing wrong with a commercial business exploiting every opportunity that they are able to recognise and take advantage of NS

[davidjohnson6]

In any commercial organisation there is always a temptation to do things which would look bad if exposed publicly. Barclays just happened to have been caught doing the bad stuff.

While not wishing to cast aspersions I believe every significant airline and airport in the UK has its own dark secrets - they just haven't been uncovered.

[Northbound A1]

The Empire spin machine is back in action.
Its all about logistics, and dont forget to spread the word about KLM. ;)
Durham Tees Valley Airport's hopes for Southside plan - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news/2012/07/11/durham-tees-valley-airport-s-hopes-for-southside-plan-51140-31371419/)

Evening Gazette 11th July 2012.
"AIRPORT bosses drummed up support for their major new logistics project at the Tees Valley Business Summit.
Durham Tees Valley wants to strengthen links with Teesside’s business community.
It’s hoped the airport’s RGF bid for £5.9m will succeed in securing funds for its major Southside Development, a business and logistics project that will create around 1,500 new jobs.
The project will see 150 acres of land south of the airport runway developed - and the extra activity it will generate will also safeguard existing jobs.
Peter Nears, left, Strategic Planning Director for Durham Tees Valley, said yesterday: “We want to spread the word about our existing KLM service and the RGF bid as supported by TVU.
“We hope it will help us take forward our Southside Development, which is focused particularly on logistics and various aviation-related companies.
“Whilst we’re promoting our passenger services, it’s also important to build up activity in general and business aviation.”

[Northbound A1]

You wont believe your eyes reading this!!
People wondered why Peel bought Barton and other fields, now you know why.

The Chinese have landed, and Peel are being funded by them :eek:

So that’s why Peel Holdings wanted Barton Aerodrome – So China could fly iPod’s to Europe cheap from the Atlantic Gateway | Robert Leather's Blog (http://robertleather.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/so-thats-why-peel-holdings-wanted-barton-aerodrome-so-china-could-fly-ipods-to-europe-cheap/)

Now we know why they get so much government money and planning permission :rolleyes:

Forget Barclays, the MP's should be more concerned about this lot!

[N707ZS]

Looks like you have been busy during your week off Northbound A1.

[papa oscar]

Flying goods from Barton!!! God that makes me laugh. Has the author of the blog been taking drugs? Has he ever flown into Barton?

You'd be lucky to get a decent sized span can with 4 people out of Barton. Ask Alan Sugar.
You may get a commercial freight carrying 747, but only if you craned it over the fence!! FFS get a life.

Northbound A1. Do you believe everything you read. You've obviously got no idea what so ever about airports. You've banged your drum once to often and shown what a plonker you are. Keep driving Northbound on the A1 and eventually you'll come to Edinburgh and meet up with another bunch of whinging gits.

[SWBKCB]

Which brings us back to today and Arif’s story about what future plans the Atlantic Gateway has for the region and how part of his report mentioned increasing the the size and facilities at Barton Aerodrome (who’s name incidentally is Manchester City Airport… but nobody seems to know this).

Plonker - have a look at the 'Barton' website and see how low-key the 'city airport' is...

City Airport and Heliport (http://www.cityairportandheliport.com/)

[DTVAirport]

Well said papa oscar

[onyxcrowle]

Let's keep the bigoted phrases out of this shall we . Some of us find that kind of stuff offensive !!! . This is supposed to be a polite forum .
And back to topic it does seem unlikely this story could happen as correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a little grass airfield ? . Not to mention the issue of air traffic conflicts etc etc . A strange story non the less , But not deserving of faintly veiled anti Scottish rants !

[highwideandugly]

At last something positive..its on the web site that they have 2 vacancies in Air Traffic..is this the first sign of expansion promised by Peel? Coming closely after the increase in Firemen looks like they are planning for something big? lets hope so..:D:D

[NorthSouth]

they have 2 vacancies in Air Traffic..is this the first sign of expansionor just replacement of two people that have left? :ugh:
NS

[RobLeather]

Hello Papa Oscar, I'm the author of the Blog post. And no, I don't take drugs :-)

I absolutely agree with you remarks on Barton Aerodromes current size. I live just a few miles away from it. However, the point you've missed is that in the post I mention the BBC report that talks about how Peel would make significant changes to the size and facilities at Barton.

Getting planning permission to build a new airport in the UK is pretty much impossible. But extending an existing one into land you've already purchased, where the surroundings are designated industrial, that's something very different.

My point is mute though, as again I say in the article, it looks like they are more likely to employ goods on the high speed rail network from Manchester / Liverpool / Salford docks. Which is why Peel say it's "vital" to the future of the area.

UPDATE: Here's (http://www.salford.gov.uk/d/salford-idp-airports.pdf) Peel's first draft of what they plan to do. So... how many business jets do you think are going to land on grass? I mean, you're the experts.

10 months after this document was produced, Peel then increased Barton's role as part of the Atlantic Gateway project. But AGAIN, I suspect this is to push the town planners to let them get access to the High Speed rail network. Which is why they are so keen on HS2. Which is what I said in the original post. Or you could just watch the North West news TONIGHT.

Interesting. So would that be:
(a) tearing up a cemetery, the Peel Green housing and school to the north east, and moving the M60, or
(b) demolishing half the housing in Irlam, or moving the M62, or
(c) a bit of both


Or just on Barton Moss... which they own (http://www.salfordonline.com/blog_page/17369-save_barton_moss.html) (or details here (http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=602)).

They do intend to build on the area, because the Environment Agency (http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=1424) attempted to stop them, got sued and Peel's moving ahead.

[NorthSouth]

Peel would make significant changes to the size and facilities at BartonInteresting. So would that be:
(a) tearing up a cemetery, the Peel Green housing and school to the north east, and moving the M60, or
(b) demolishing half the housing in Irlam, or moving the M62, or
(c) a bit of both

Because a half-viable commercial air transport runway at Barton can't be done without that.

NS

[rodan]

But... but, don't you understand? He did thirty minutes of research. That's right. A full half hour. Your so-called facts mean little in comparison.

Also, someone should edit the Wikipedia entries on London City and Sheffield airports since their construction was:
pretty much impossible

[johnnychips]

Also, someone should edit the Wikipedia entries on London City and Sheffield airport

Nothing to stop you doing it yourself. That is the point of wikipedia.

[P330]

Forgive my interference, but I'm getting bored now and on the verge of switching off.

I understand the emotion, but any chance we could keep this thread talking about the airlines and routes rumours/facts for DTV. We've descended into discussion about other airfields, continuously repeated posts about Peel and grants (which has a place but is getting tiresome now) and we're now turning on each other.

I know there isn't much else to do in a DTV thread as there aren't many routes/airlines to discuss but surely we can improve on the recent debate...

No offence intended....

[ILS32]

I know there isn't much else to do in a DTV thread as there aren't many routes/airlines to discuss You have hit the nail on the head,because of the above quote and the fact that in the near future the chances of the introduction of new routes/airlines will not happen in the present economic climate.Airlines will only utilise their aircraft to make a profit,that's why Newcastle,Leeds are still attracting new routes etc.The continual drop in passenger numbers does not help the situation.The introduction or the hope of acquiring new routes and new airlines is really just a wish list of the diehard supporters of DTV.
This thread used to be one of the first that I viewed after reading about my own local airport Leeds/Bradford.This thread is now degenerating into a anti Peel thread and worse.The content relating to DTV used to be interesting and enjoyable to read,but not anymore it's just becoming rather boring. I hope the contributors take note.

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone want to take a guess as to what the June CAA stats will be for MME before they are provisionally released ?

[TSR2]

Anyone want to take a guess as to what the June CAA stats will be for MME before they are provisionally released ?

Wild guess ..... 15,278 June12 .... 161,892 rolling year.

[CentreFix25]

Forgive my interference, but I'm getting bored now and on the verge of switching off.


I agree, it's a bit like one of those medical documentaries with the blood and guts - you don't want to watch but you can't help yourself, and then when you do you wish you hadn't!

[highwideandugly]

Signs are good this year? Saw a Spitfire here yesterday-hopefully familiarise for next week? Anyone know what we can expect this year? At least something to watch at DTV!!

No other news at moment..

[SWBKCB]

According to the BBMF display schedule, Spitfire went to Otterburn. Same source shows their using Newcastle for the Sunderland show (download the full schedule spreadsheet).

RAF BBMF - BBMF Display 2012 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/displayinfo/bbmfdisplay2012.cfm)

[davidjohnson6]

June 2012 - 14,855 pax down 25.3% on June 2011
Rolling 12 months - 170,016, down 24.9% on previous 12 month period

Amsterdam route had 8,819 passengers, down 0.3% compared to June 2011
Amsterdam route accounts for 59.3% of all passengers

[RobLeather]

The 30 minutes comment was to show how easy it was. Well done. :D

What I do think funny is that I'M not saying Peel are going to extend Barton for freight.... THEY ARE! :ugh:

_I_ think they are going to send goods via rail freight, which is why they are so keen on the High Speed 2 expansion.

[RobLeather]

Here (http://www.salford.gov.uk/d/salford-idp-airports.pdf)are Peel's early plans for Barton. They've now increased their interest in "business" transport for the Atlantic Gateway project over "recreational" use.

So... do you think you'll be landing many business jets on grass?

[mmeman]

Hopefully some encouraging signs in the figures for June. Amsterdam very very slightly down, but with 2 bank holidays in June where there would have been less business travel- I would think this accounts for Aberdeen figures being down. (However Aberdeen figures for the previous month were very high)

Jersey had a 52% increase in passengers and averaging 60 pax a flight rather than 49 for the previous year.

And Palma I reckon had an average of 185 passengers on 189 seat aircraft - pretty good!

I also see that Newcastle had strong figures for some of the traditional Spanish destinations - maybe an upturn in the wider north east economy?

To begin with, I think that is all we want here some flights to the most popular destinations - Ibiza, Alicante, Turkey etc! :hmm:

[DTVAirport]

Should we be worried that Eastern are chopping a lot of rotations during 'regular' weeks as opposed to the usual bank holiday cut backs?

It may be something at Eastern's end and not MME's mind you since Eastern are rumoured to be just about keeping their heads above the water line (hope I'm wrong there though because that puts the entire route in jeopardy!)

[Venkman]

T3 operate a reduced schedule in the summer months, operating loads seem good.

Any truth in T3 struggling financially, thought they were quite secure?

[Heathrow Harry]

mmeman - don't think it's the economy - its the dreadful weather that is forcing people to get out at whatever costs for their hols..........

[mmeman]

Heathrow Harry - Yes of course, didn't take that into account! Pity there are not many flights here to take advantage of that!

[DTVAirport]

A glimmer of good news which I don't think anyone was expecting - we appear to be getting some limited Sunderland Air Show traffic in the form of the BoBMF!

[Robert-Ryan]

I understand Sycamore Aviation are returning with two narrow-bodies due in early August initially for storage (conflicting reports as to whether they're Airbus or Boeing).

I'm also told that their disagreement was with VAS who didn't want them in but now they're gone things have moved forward.

They'll be in Hangar 1 this time around.

[Northbound A1]

Back from my jollies and noticed a falcon has had a problem at DTV today.

Emergency services called to Durham Tees Valley Airport after plane drama (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9865105.Emergency_services_called_to_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airp ort_after_plane_drama/)

[LTNman]

A Durham Tees Valley spokesman said the airport was continuing to operate as normal and there had not been any disruption to services.

That is because there were no services to disrupt.

[highwideandugly]

Second major incident due birds at the airport in a short time(KLM to Norwich last month) Hope the airport are not letting their standards slip regarding the scaring of birds?? Not sure if the cuts effect the operational guys who do the scaring? Doesn't look good to operators however.

Been pretty quiet recently any news of anything happing??

[Lancelot37]

After the incident they all returned to their knitting.

[papa oscar]

If anything, bird scaring activites have increased. Due to the grass cutting in progress, more birds are present on the airfield.
Every airport has issues with birds and bird strikes are unfortunately a hazard of the job.

The KLM did have to divert to Newcastle, so there was some slight disruption.

[NorthSouth]

I'm puzzled as to how a bird strike on take-off can lead to an overrun. If it occurs before V1 they should have ample room to stop. If after V1, they'd be committed to continuing the take off. Unless of course both engines were affected :uhoh:
NS

[Northbound A1]

Word around DTV Airport is that all of the old WW2 hangar roofs are now in a very poor state of repair and asbestos is being blown all over the terminal :eek:

I did hear that they were listed buildings? but should surely they should be knocked down if they are now a public health hazard.

Anyone from the Peel Empire care to comment on the state of hangars, and have the local health authority carried out any investigations into these reports?

[mccdatabase]

Number 1 hangar may have asbestos in the roof but I think No 2 has a metal (steel plate) roof, so there should be no problems there, it also has a cut out above the doors which means that a B737 and at a pinch an A320 can fit in there.

[SWBKCB]

Northbound - presumably you've passed on your obvious concerns for the health of the public to the appropriate authorities?

[jetstar.8]

The land where they started to build a hotel and only got as far as the steelwork near to the railway station is up for sale as "Potenial Devolopment Land" approx 9.53acres

[N707ZS]

Hangars 3 and 4 are metal. 3 had any asbestos removed early 80s from the heating pipes.


SWBKCB I wouldnt know where to start with who deals with asbestos?

So why bring it up in the first place.

[SWBKCB]

So why bring it up in the first place?

Think it now goes under the term of 'Trolling'...


Darlington Borough Council - Environmental Health (http://www.darlington.gov.uk/Environment/envhealth.htm)

Alternatively, if you have a genuine concern this is a good place to start (can never remember which council the terminal sits in, if not Darlington the relevant environmental health department)

And plenty of Peel fluff in here to annoy Northbound!

Robert Hough, chairman, Durham Tees Valley Airport - Business Interviews - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/interviews-with-business-people/2012/08/13/robert-hough-chairman-durham-tees-valley-airport-51140-31609346/)

[OldManJoe]

Northbound, you do write some crap on here. How can you tell from Google Earth what material is used on a roof. Must be some magic program you're using.

Hangar 2 and 3 have metal roofs so no chance of asbestos being in them.
Hangar 1 roof will be replaced soon so no need to worry.

I think you really need to get out a bit more rather than troll on here!!

[davidjohnson6]

July 2012 passengers - 14,160, down 15.7%
Rolling 12 months passengers - 167,382, down 23.4%

Newcastle by comparison, +0.5% for month, or -1.2% for rolling year

MME-Amsterdam route had 9,050 passengers, -0.5% on July 2011
NCL-Amsterdam route had 25,209 passengers, +5.5% on July 2011
There were 21 weekdays in July 2011, but 22 weekdays in July 2012

Assuming an F70 3x daily with 2x daily on Sunday:
This gives a load factor on MME-AMS of 64.3% for July 2012, down from 64.6% in July 2011.
From Jan 2011 - Dec 2012, MME-AMS had 103,354 passengers, giving a 62.1% load factor
From Aug 2011 - July 2012, MME-AMS had 99,850 passengers, giving a 60.0% load factor

KLM's market share of passenger traffic at MME has gone from 52.7% in July 2011, to 59.3% in June 2012, to 63.9% in July 2012

[davidjohnson6]

From Aug 2011 to July 2012, MME-AMS had 99,850 passengers and NCL-AMS had 273,054 passengers, suggesting MME has a 26.8% market share of the NE England - Amsterdam route.
Assuming KLM operate a 20x weekly F70 year round except Xmas, that equates to 166,400 seat capacity on MME-AMS. 99,850 passengers gives a 60.0% load factor for the last 12 months.

Recall that Easyjet will open a NCL-AMS route 5x weekly in 4 months time, supplying approx 6,800 seats per month on the route

If Easyjet attain a 75% load factor over a 12 month period on a 5x weekly NCL-AMS A319 route, they will capture about 60,000 passengers per year.
If we assume 50% of those who will choose Easyjet to AMS are currently flying on KLM from NE England then 13.4% (i.e. 0.5 x 26.8% x 60,000) of these passengers or 8,040 people would switch from the MME-AMS route. If KLM's current capacity to NE England is maintained, it implies KLM's MME-AMS will have 99,850 - 8,040 = 91,810 passengers per year, or a load factor of 55.2%.

Can KLM's MME-AMS route survive with its current capacity against Easyjet's NCL-AMS route ?

[airhumberside]

The overwhelming number of AMS passengers are connecting however. On HUY-AMS connecting passengers account for 96% of passengers (Source: recent article on Humber Business). Passengers who in most, but not all, cases would probably prefer to use KLM and have through checked baggage and frequent flyer points

While EZY could have an impact on MME-AMS, it will probably be minimal

[Nakata77]

davidjohnson6, alot of calculations there, but not everything can be as black and white. Yield is the missing formulae.

EZY adding AMS from NCL in itself shouldn't have any impact on either NCL or MME-AMS as most of the traffic is connecting. Someone mentioned something like 90% of traffic is connecting. So easyJet are doing the right thing and addressing a missing segment of the market - point to point LCC. This market should grow the overall pie size of the NE England-AMS market.

The more relevant question, in my opinion, is whether the economic downturn is having an affect on KLM's yield, and the propensity to travel of people within the MME catchment area. The propensity may simply be falling away and needs to be stimulated with ever lower fares to maintain loads.

Having said that, as long as LHR and the London airports remain restricted to UK regions, KLM should be able to protect and grow their UK-AMS-Onward market.

[Northbound A1]

Why bring it up? Why not if someones health could be affected, it could be a child who breathes it in? :ugh:

I've been supporting the airport not knocking it SWBDCK as I've pointed out before as I know people who work there so your way off the mark as usual.

Peel on the other hand have other motives, and it was only in January 2012 that they stated the place didnt fit in with their plans only to do a U turn when it became a hot local topic. So if you dont like whats posted thats your problem.

Agreed hangar 3 has a new roof when I've looked, as the roofs were not something I've looked at from the terminal building while using the airport.

If there isn't any asbestos then there shouldnt be anything to worry about, BUT if there is asbestos material there why not remove it for the sake of the people who use the airport, as it can kill you later in life :ugh:

[Northbound A1]

Oldmanjoe says no need to worry, as hangar 1's asbestos roof will be replaced soon!! How soon and how long have the management known about the hangar being contaminated with it as its next door to the main terminal which the public use including my family?

As for Hanagr 2 my source says they didnt replace the side sections next to the curved section of roof, its still WW2 era material.

Troll eh, well if it saves someones life in later years thats got to be worth posting the facts on here, unless your immune to asbestos fibres like oldmanjoe :mad:

[Northbound A1]

Middleton St George / Teeside Airport - Page 2 (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?53-Middleton-St-George-Teeside-Airport/page2)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o231/3DImages/RAF%20Middleton%20St%20George/DCP_0756.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o231/3DImages/RAF%20Middleton%20St%20George/Hanger3_12.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/TeesideSaturday26thJuly2008033.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o231/3DImages/RAF%20Middleton%20St%20George/DCP_0757.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/SCARECROW450/scan0001-3.jpg

[SWBKCB]

Why bring it up? Why not if someones health could be affected, it could be a child who breathes it in?

How soon and how long have the management known about the hangar being contaminated with it as its next door to the main terminal which the public use including my family?

So presumably you've reported you concerns to the appropriate authorities? If you haven't, you are as guilty as you reckon the airport management are in a matter of public health.

[N707ZS]

A bit more info about Jetstar.8's post.

Land&Buildings at Durham Tees Valley Aiport, Middleton St George, Darlington | Industrial property for sale. (http://search.struttandparker.com/commercial/landbuildings-at-durham-tees-valley-aiport-middleton-st-george-darlington-dl2/11256)

[andrewmcharlton]

Northhbound, I assume you're prolling around on Google Earth offering such a similar life saving service for the general populace as opposed to just looking for some Peel Beating opportunity? have you checked for raised pavements or potholes too on the basis they may "save a life"?

You've made your point umpteen times and in various fashions. We've heard it. Move on.

[Robert-Ryan]

A little bit disgusting that the Flybe diverted into Newcastle today due to a technical fault - to put in perspective, an aircraft coming from the South, bypassing it's destination airport - presumably on a pan pan pan - and landing north of where it's supposed to be - why??!!

It's not the airports fault as the airlines ops department make such decisions but nevertheless this was nothing short of ridiculous!

[tubtruck]

Tumbleweed even blowing through the forum now.

Went to the airport the other day, not to fly but to pick up a car, to drive to another airport where flights actually take place.

The place was like a ghost town, we parked in the 20 minute car park, it has a barrier so charging can take place, the barrier was left in the up position, looks like it would cost them more to empty any machine than the revenue stream would bring in.

The only car in the car park was ours and it was the middle of the afternoon. Went to the hertz desk, did not pass a single person on the way in to the airport or inside the terminal. I asked the Hertz lady how they make a living there and she said that it was because of local corporate clients that they were able to keep going rather than anyone from the few flights left. She said who knows how long we would have before the place closes bu it surely cannot keep going on like this.

We collected the car keys and left, without seeing another single sole. How many other airports could you go to through the main enterance in the UK at 2.00pm on a wednesday afternoon without seeing a single human being who is not a member of staff ?

[TSR2]

That's sad, very sad.

[LTNman]

How many other airports could you go to through the main enterance in the UK at 2.00pm on a wednesday afternoon without seeing a single human being who is not a member of staff ?

Manston comes to mind. Blackpool always seems empty of passengers when I visit the terminal although what it is like at 2pm on a Wednesday I don't know.

Teeside is not looking good and would appear to be only a matter of time before the terminal closes. What a shame but I do hope I am wrong.

[onyxcrowle]

It's crazy that with all the capacity problems in the south that they dont make more of regional airports . You could have cargo traffic shifted to smaller regional airports , freeing slots at places like east midlands.
In turn traffic from southeastern airports can shift there etc etc . I'm not sure exactly where DTV is in terms of decent road n rail links but why they haven't made more of it is madness .
Ditto HUY that has two destinations only mainly yet survives ok .
And before I get shot down for suggesting this idea , look at the thread on Leylstad . The Netherlands government wants to shift some flights there to free up Schipol .

[davidjohnson6]

onyx - Lelystad is about 22 miles from central Amsterdam by road
MME is about 250 miles from London, or about 145 miles to East Midlands airport.

[compton3bravo]

I am sorry David to bang on about this but practically all passengers coming from abroad especially the USA and Asia want to fly into the South East of England it is where most business etc. is done - FACT! It is about time people in other parts of the UK realise this and quicker the third runway is completed the better wherever it is. But to add to that we will have ATC issues, road and rail transport problems etc. I do not think hardly anybody would want to land at DTV or anywhere else and then want to jump on a 250 mile train journey to get to there destination. I would assume most would say is there a connecting flight!

[davidjohnson6]

compton - I completely agree with you. I was rather hoping that by comparing 22 miles against 250 miles in a matter-of-fact way, people would realise that the much greater distance means London-MME is not comparable to Amsterdam-Lelystad and so the idea of moving London or East Midlands based traffic to Teesside, be it passenger or cargo, is not economically viable.

The only aiports from which MME might possibly gain spillover traffic from a purely geographical proximity standpoint are Newcastle, or at a push, Leeds. Neither of these 2 airports seem particularly capacity constrained and there seems to be little reason for any traffic from these 2 airports to need to move to MME. For passenger and cargo MME has to survive almost entirely on economic activity in Teesside and the surrounding area alone.

[Facelookbovvered]

A third runway at LHR might well benefit MME but only if they bin APD there will never be international flights from MME but there is a need for flights to hubs be it AMS or LHR the Goverment just doesn't get it and that dippy mare Greening is a joke, was it not Barbra Castle who was appointed transport secretary and she couldn't drive ?

Now we have a minster with responsibilities for Aviaition who feels she would have to resign if the government backed a 3 rd runway at LHR well get on with it I say !

My bet is we will get R3 but not for another 5 wasted years

[Robert-Ryan]

Runway 3 at LHR should long since have been built and we should be having this discussion regarding a runway 4!!

[ConstantFlyer]

I often visit this thread in the hope that I might hear news of new services from Teesside; I'm clearly either an eternal optimist or addicted to disappointment.

There is, of course, no way that Teesside can relieve pressure on Heathrow. However, those pushing for extra capacity at Heathrow need to realise that while a big airport means lots of flights, good connections and numerous destinations to choose from, there is a point at which a big airport becomes too big. Planes stacking to land, queueing for take-off and waiting for bus transfers mean that passengers miss connections, baggage gets delayed, and journey times get extended as the time it takes to transfer gets longer and longer. When this happens, it is time to stop growing and consolidate.

Every hub airport depends on two things: A good basis of local traffic, and a good network of destinations. If Heathrow's catchment area generates enough yield to justify three flights a day to Warsaw, and transit passengers enough to justify two more, then they all benefit from the convenience of having five flights a day. That in itself generates employment. The crazy thing is that some of those passengers will have travelled from Lincoln, Middlesbrough or Chesterfield to London by train, then across London by Tube, adding to the capital's public transport congestion; others will have come by car from Kent, Oxfordshire or Dorset, adding to traffic on the South East's busy motorways.

The point is that Heathrow does not just serve West London and Berkshire. People travel there from all over England and Wales because of an historic lack of alternatives. The advent of the Locos in the last twenty years has shown that there is (both existing and generated) demand from the regions; but the high yield (mainly business) traffic has continued to be London-centred.

All Teesside has to offer is a long runway, and a small catchment population. However, as a 'UK gateway' it offers as much as any other. Two examples: A Japanese business visitor with appointments in Leicester, Swindon, Preston and Newcastle could enter at any point on that circuit, particularly if there was a direct flight to Amsterdam from their Japanese regional city; likewise an American tourist doing a tour of the country could start and finish at Edinburgh or Birmingham (or Dublin!) and still include London without having to queue for hours at Heathrow immigration.

If Teesside and some other regional airports were to get together (instead of directly competing) and market themselves to airlines and passengers as 'gateways to the UK', then perhaps some of the pressure currently being suffered in South East England could be averted.

[onyxcrowle]

The whole thing is they need to look at airports as a whole . A bit like a chess board So to speak . There should be room to shift cargo flights for example from larger airports put into the regions in order to free up slots for flights moved from heathrow .
Birmingham seems an obvious choice ditto Coventry . Perhaps Teesside needs to chase more bucket and spade routes and eastern Europe to get itself moving .

[pug]

Onyxcrowle, since all of these airports are private operations I dont think theyd take kindly to having their bread and butter flights moved to other airports. As far as I can tell, only LHR is severely constrained, and they dont have cargo flights as such due to the night time restrictions in place.

Market forces will continue to drive airports. MME is in a competitive market, and has the smallest core catchment out of its competitors. Hence the situation its in at the moment.

[David Thompson]

A new support group for Durham Tees Valley Airport has been launched by a local group of aviation enthusiasts and supporters of 'Teesside Airport' to be run in conjunction with the airport management . Details here ;
FoDTVA (http://www.fodtva.co.uk/)

A detailed log of airport movements can be found here ;
DTV Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/index.html)

[davidjohnson6]

It sounds like people volunteering their time for free to help staff an airport which is owned by a private company so that it can partly reduce its wages bill
I'm sure Dr Beeching will be quivering with fear...

[compton3bravo]

I would think the management must be highly delighted that MUGS are willing towork for free for a company. Do charity work by all means but not for a multi-million pound organisation. I bet all the unemployed in the region must be highly delighted as well!

[davidjohnson6]

Missed a few aspects. Members will also get to spend their Saturday afternoons on local High Streets persuading locals to fly from Teesside. Of course airport management will not let them near any meetings that are remotely important - such as meetings with airlines or industry conferences.

In return the leading fanbois (the committee members) get a permanent airside pass at TBW airport while the remaining members get one day passes to let them actually access the area where they will be working for free.

[SWBKCB]

Or alternatively, somebody actually getting involved in something they care about and think will help their local community, rather than sitting back and taking the p*ss on anonymous internet forums. (and no, I wouldn't be seen dead either - but every story has two sides).

[jetstar.8]

Don`t think the airport staff would be to happy working next to unpaid and mostly unqualified volunteers after most of there colleagues have been paid off
Members get to pay £12.00p a year from january 2013 to work for free
Looks like it`s only the Airport and the committee members with the airside passes who are going to get something from this and not the members

[paarmo]

I do feel that nails and coffin and straws and camels come to mind. It would appear that Tui ( the only real friend of the airport ) were not impressed by the negotiating team which were essentially the same that stuffed them some years ago and have decided to wait and see what happens in the short to medium term. I don't think they have looked at the long term for obvious reasons.

[160to4DME]

Interesting to read the passenger stats on the FoDTVA site. Back to 1972/73 levels.

Dire indeed. :(

[TSR2]

Back to 1972/73 levels

One might say then 'Back to the Future'

[highwideandugly]

What ever did become of it? The fanfare has died down..but still cant see any sign of it for this winter? Anyone know what 2013 will bring..more(less) of the same ?

lots of rumours but as always no substance.
Dropped someone off at Newcastle last week..I know ive said it before(and honestly take no pleasure in saying it again) but it looked like a real airport..people,planes and vibrancy...compare that to the post last week about DTV and tumbleweed etc..It really is so run down it will take massive investment from Peel just to get up to speed.Its certainly not a welcoming airport for your average Teesside punter(or international business man?).

oh well lets wait and see..:ugh:

[NorthSouth]

Interesting also if you look at the trends in aircraft movements. On just a quick look at 1990 vs 2011 figures, there's been about a 40% drop in air transport movements - no surprise there - but aero club and private movements are only a quarter of what they were in 1990. Test and training are down from 2453 to only 358. So the diversity that once supported the airport has vanished.
NS

[Mickey Kaye]

"So the diversity that once supported the airport has vanished"

I think you mean has been driven away

[Red Four]

Anyone know in which year did Teesside gain controlled airspace?

[bad bear]

Anyone know in which year did Teesside gain controlled airspace?

I guess it would have been "special rules airspace" in its day?

3 x 70 seat planes and 3 x thirty seaters in a whole Friday would not make a compelling case if a new application for Controlled Airspace were to be submitted now, even based on risk.

bb

[bad bear]

Only 4 flights on the departures board today, 2 Amsterdam,1 Palma and a Jersey. I didn't realise things were so quiet.


Doncaster is almost as bad with only 4 flights between 9am and 9pm, did the coffee shop really close down?

Humberside looks busy by comparison, 5 flights.

bb

[davidjohnson6]

Badbear - with the greatest respect, I think you may have missed the 0610 KLM departure to Amsterdam from Durham Tees Valley.
There's also the weekday flights with Eastern to Aberdeen.

But yes, MME is very quiet when it comes to commercial passenger flights.

[skyman771]

Been away for a while & certainly not much of any substance appears happening on this site the only relevant postings seem to be from a reasonably realistic current assessment of the current situation by "Highwideandugly" & an informed comment by "paarmo" which present relevant issues.
Unfortunately in absence of political intervention, the trend in decline (at least from a pax aspect) at DTV is likely to continue. The basic & obvious problem is that it's all about pax no.'s/footfall & whether the actual number of commercial movements at present is relevant when discussing pax no’s is debatable as most are simply low capacity "commuter" types.
Even KL is operating from the base level of it's fleet of ageing Fokker types. … perhaps one has to ask oneself why ?
I was passing through AMS recently around c.22.00 ie the time of last daily departures to North East. Flights to NCL & DTV were departing from adjacent gates, offering an opportunity to run a rough profile of the pax & no.'s. & though neither flight was full, circa 55 on the DTV & 85 on the NCL, the profile of the pax appeared remarkably similar.
So here is the question on the "chicken & egg" basis what comes first the pax demand or the aircraft type. KL operated new EMB's on the NCL for their lower demand sectors as opposed to the remains of their fleet of Fokkers offered on the DTV.
One can discuss the reasons at length, but I wonder as to how much longer KL is to retain these ageing Fokker workhorses & perhaps their eventual demise may not bode well for the future at DTV UNLESS progress is made on facilities & other routes.

To me "Friends of this or that" unfortunately offer no respite whatsoever & are no more than “spotters” looking to improve their access to hopefully better subject matter.
As to any group being able to coerce even a single additional individual that they should fly from DTV is also a dream. To effect this one has to be able to convey in a positive manner information that they are not aware, be it services or competitive fares.
With facilities that are becoming on a daily basis “less fit for purpose”, than those of their competitors then where to next ? :(

[NorthSouth]

Anyone know in which year did Teesside gain controlled airspace? Some time between 1980 and 1984 according to my records. And in those days you had at least twice the amount of commercial traffic at EGNV and way more than twice the amount of military flying immediately outside the zone. But my guess is that the CAA will now not dare to remove controlled airspace because they'll be seen as reducing safety levels.
NS

[Red Four]

1980-1984 - OK thanks NorthSouth.

BMA must have been operating their DC-9s/Viscounts since well before then. When did commercial flights start? (or perhaps when did it stop being Middleton St George? is a better question)

[NorthSouth]

Stopped being RAF Middleton St George 1963. First commercial flights 1964. First BMA Heathrow flights (by Viscount?) 1969.
NS

[roverman]

Commercial airline flights don't need to operate solely in Controlled airspace. They can, and often do, use airports outside zones and sometimes with no radar. The charter boys are well accustomed to it.

[davidjohnson6]

If airspace around MME were relaxed and nobody made any noise over safety, how big an impact would this really have on the airport given its current situation ?
Are there any constraints as to how much relaxation some of the airport's users (eg KLM) would accept ?

[skyman771]

Are there any constraints as to how much relaxation some of the airport's users (eg KLM) would accept ?
Can't imagine KL would accept too many VFR clearances ;)

[NorthSouth]

KLM still fly into Humberside every day without controlled airspace, and did so at Norwich for many years until very recently. However at EGNV I understand they stopped routing via FAMBO some time ago because of the number of encounters with military traffic, and now always route to/from the south west inside controlled airspace. I don't believe a withdrawal of the Durham CAS would cause KLM to leave. Then again I don't believe the CAA will withdraw CAS around EGNV unless someone in the aviation community argues for it - and who would?
NS

[GARDENER]

If it was just the ATZ it wouldn't cause any problems....clearances still IFR.

[highwideandugly]

after the bravado of a few months ago when the future of DTV was secured,it seems to have gone very quiet.The cynics may say it is still part of the master plan.
Can anyone with any authority or knowledge say what if anything has actually improved,changed or even happened since those heady days?

figures for august out in a day or so..guess what ..almost certainly down yet again
Surely Peel management havnt bottomless pockets?

anytning planned for 2013 or is it more of the same?:ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

Durham Tees Valley
Aug 2012 passengers - 13,772 - down 15.1%
Rolling year passengers - 164,941 - down 21.3%

Newcastle
Aug 2012 passengers - up 2.2%
Rolling year passengers - down 0.5%

Amsterdam route for Aug 2012
MME - 8,938 passengers - down 1.1%
NCL - 24,285 passengers - up 3.8%

In absolute numbers, compared to Aug 2011, MME-AMS lost 101 passengers, while NCL-AMS gained 851 scheduled passengers during August 2012. I'm ignoring the 43 NCL-AMS charter passengers in Aug 2012

August 2011 and 2012 each had 22 weekdays

Amsterdam accounted for 64.9% of all passengers in August, and 60.5% over the rolling year at MME

[TSR2]

Amsterdam accounted for 64.9% of all passengers in August, and 60.5% over the rolling year at MME

That's a staggering dependency on one route.

[highwideandugly]

interesting figures but not surprising.

we only have 2 routes so we have to depend on them ?

What is unknown is how much Peel are also subsidising the KLM route..how much is the airport actually making...very little i would suggest,the same goes for eastern.

which brings me back to the silence..what is peel getting out of all this? matter of time,you can see the headlines now.

'we tried but the public didn't support us...we therefore have no option but to...(you can fill in the rest) :mad:

[ConstantFlyer]

What routes do the Omni Air International 777 & 767 squaddie flights fly, or is it all secret?

[jetstar.8]

ConstantFlyer
Its a Secret
Walls have eyes and ears

[Northbound A1]

Highwideandugly:
In answer to your question of what will it become...

I believe the DTV losses are just being used to offset the profits on the larger corporation books. Its all a number game with Peel who have very deep pockets. They weren't in a rush to do much with Shefffield, but land will always be valuable.

Question to the staff on the inside: Whats the DTV wage bill, without the other costs such as business rates, maintenance, lighting etc?

What will DTV become?
Someone once mentioned a wind farm. Peel have their own regeneration company OR will it become housing?
My bet is the latter as the council will want the council tax income from housing and will welcome the investment and wont object. Council tax income from estates such as Ingleby Barwick are in the many millions.

DTV has a better view than the expensive Wynard estate. Noow that the old chrome factory has closed any houses built on DTV land would be attractive to buyers.

The 6 local councils would now be sitting pretty if they hadnt given the airport away ten years ago for £500k. :\

[DTVAirport]

or maybe it will just stay as an airport

[N707ZS]

Anyone got the figures for the Palma or Jersey flight?

[GrahamK]

1446 for Palma = average 181 per flight
393 for Jersey = average 50 per flight

[N707ZS]

So full or good even with the airport fee.

[davidjohnson6]

Compared to August 2011

MME:
Jersey - down 10.6%
Palma - down 19.1%

NCL:
Jersey - Aug 2012 data not published yet by CAA
Palma - down 1.1%

[skyman771]

DTVAirport or maybe it will just stay as an airport
Unlikely ! at least in its present form.
With the winter season approaching, then will DTV have the resource to deal with extreme weather? More costs for lower pax no.'s reflects serious subsidies from large pockets......
Nortbound A1
It is true that in the past Peel were able to utilise large losses from previous years against profits earned elsewhere in the group thus having a significant impact on the groups cash flow. However to run a business accepting that projected losses are to be sustained & may even worsen, but that it's not too bad as there are surplus elsewhere in the group available for relief is not actually a positive argument at all.

[Northbound A1]

Lets hope it does remain an airport.

More spin from Peel in the press today.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/09/20/durham-tees-valley-airport-bosses-upbeat-despite-passenger-fall-84229-31872986/

The public comments below the article say it all.

Can the councils ask for the airport back and send Peel packing with the £500k they paid for it. :ok:

[NorthSouth]

Great. So the August decline was due to a couple of one-off factors. So I wonder what one-off factors they argue caused the 17% year-on-year drop in pax in May and July and the 25% drop in June?
NS

[SWBKCB]

Peter Nears, strategic planning director for the Peel Group, the airport owner, said the crude passenger figures did not give a full picture.

“In fact the reality is that the services currently operating from the airport have all performed well over recent months. For example, one of the most important measures for airlines is what is known as the load factor - in other words the percentage of seats filled. In the case of our key service, the KLM three-times-a-day link to Amsterdam Schiphol, load factors have shown a significant increase in recent months following the launch in May of a major joint marketing campaign, highlighting the access to worldwide destinations via Schiphol.

“The long-established Eastern Airways service to Aberdeen has recently shown increased business, the summer programme to Jersey, operated by Channel island Travel Service and Flybe, has been well over 90% sold this summer, whilst Thomson has shown significantly increased business on its Palma service, coupled with a rise in bookings for next summer."

Seems to contradict davidjohnson6 post 2212 above - anybody got the figures?

[davidjohnson6]

SWBKCB - take a look for yourself...

UK Airport Provisional Statistics: 2012 - 08 | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&sglid=11&fld=201208)

Aug 2011 saw 16,213 passengers, while Aug 2012 saw 13,772 passengers, a loss of 2,441 passengers or -15.1%
In August 2011, Turkish holiday firm Holidays4U had 1,356 passengers, while the Eastern Airways route to Southampton had 477 passengers. Peter Nears is correct to say these are the main causes of the decline
However, Turkey and Southampton combined led to 11,872 passengers in 2011 - it is essential (but difficult) to find replacement routes and regain these passengers, rather than just accepting the loss.

Jersey
June 2012 - 604, June 2011 - 397, change = +52.1%
July 2012 - 400, July 2011 - 526, change = -24.0%
August 2012 - 393, August 2011 - 440, change = -10.6%
Note - July 2011 and June 2012 each had 5 Saturdays

From Jun 2012-Aug 2012, there were 13 Saturdays
Allowing for a flight every Saturday in the summer, this means each flight had an average of (604 + 400 + 393) / (2 * 13) = 53.7 passengers
Assuming FlyBE use a Dash-8 Q400 on the route with 78 seats, this means a load factor of 68.8 %

I do not understand how one can claim the seats were 90% sold, unless there's some kind of load restriction in place. Durham and Jersey both seem to have a more than ample runway for a Dash-8 for a 1h30m flight

Palma
May 2012 - 1207, May 2011 - 1500, change = -19.5%
June 2012 - 1843, June 2011 - 2305, change = -20.0%
July 2012 - 1477, July 2011 - 1768, change = -16.5%
Aug 2012 - 1446, Aug 2011 - 1787, change = -19.1%

I do not see how one can claim Palma has seen an increase in traffic during summer 2012, unless it is to say that more people go to Palma in July / August compared to May and you ignore seasonality

Amsterdam
March 2012 - 8438, March 2011 - 9218, change = -8.5%
April 2012 - 8736, April 2011 - 9217, change = -5.2%
May 2012 - 8406, May 2011 - 9062, change = -7.2%
June 2012 - 8819, June 2011 - 8849, change = -0.3%
July 2012 - 9050, July 2011 - 9092, change = -0.5%
August 2012 - 8938, August 2011 - 9039, change = -1.1 %
Note - April 2012 had an additional 93 charter passengers which I am ignoring

I do not see how one could claim the Amsterdam route has seen an increase in summer 2012 compared to the previous year. It is possible that in Aug 2012, KLM operated fewer flights to MME compared to Aug 2011, meaning that the load factor has increased despite passenger numbers being down
It is very likely that the KLM marketing campaign at MME in May 2012 slowed the decline in passengers, but KLM passengers numbers at MME are still down compared to the previous year.
I can see how one could claim that an increase from 8,406 in May 2012 to 8,938 in Aug 2012 is an increase in absolute numbers, but this ignores any kind of annual seasonality.

[paarmo]

There are lies damn lies and statistics and Peel amongst others are guilty of using their interpretation. What doesn't lie is the fact that Thomson make a profit on all holidays it sells from Teesside. Their problem is dealing with the Management who they don't trust and who they have had serious problems in the past. The same people are trying to woo Thomson but Thomson are happy to sit where they are at present and see what develops whilst putting a decent amount of money into the bank with little effort or risk.

[highwideandugly]

not sure how accurate but on another site it lists the price of avgas fuel. Newcastle rather a lot cheaper than here..you would think the airport would match at least to encourage traffic>?? not sure about jet fuel.

also do all small aircraft have to be handled and pay a charge to the agent??

[davidjohnson6]

highwide - would you perhaps be kind enough to post the link or indicate how your source can be found ?

[OldManJoe]

At a guess, I'd say he's using Latest fuel prices (http://ukga.com/airfield/fuelprices)

The prices are well out of date. AVGAS prices vary wildly from month to month.

Yes, GA aircraft are handled by Weston Aviation just like they are at Samson at EGNT.

Weston charge £10. Last visit to EGNT cost me £25.00.
The landing fee is not included in the above price.

EGNV = £8.66 per half tonne or part of
EGNT = Minimum charge £27.00

Charges based on aircraft MTOW. Average spam can 1 to 1 1/2 tonne.

[DTVAirport]

Based on a recent 'league table' of fuel prices I saw, ranging from Heathrow right down to the likes of Bagby, DTVA was around mid-table.

I know the management are constantly making efforts to reduce the price but it's still reasonable. Certainly not cause for concern.

[davidjohnson6]

Flybe released their spring / early summer 2013 schedule today, up to mid July 2013. Loganair's schedule has not however been released yet. This includes some Loganair-operated routes outside Scotland, like the Norwich-Manchester route which is available only to March

I notice that while Flybe have released seats for the 2x per week Doncaster-Jersey and 4x per week Newcastle-Jersey seasonal routes up to mid July, they have not released anything for Durham Tees Valley - Jersey or, for that matter, Humberside - Jersey

Anyone know if it's just a case of "be patient for a few days" or something else is intended ?

[Jamesair]

Have you checked on the Tour Operators websites who used the service this year, that should give you some idea if it will operate.

NCL - NQY and NCL - Limoge are not showing either.

[SWBKCB]

Call to scrap passenger flights from Durham Tees Valley airport - Latest news - Sunderland Echo (http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/latest-news/call-to-scrap-passenger-flights-from-durham-tees-valley-airport-1-4985877)

[DTVAirport]

He got outvoted 3 - 1 or something, no-one will take this guy seriously. Besides, he's from North Durham and Durham have always pledged their allegiance to Newcastle, so he's possibly biased anyway.

[ILS32]

Maybe this MP is being sensible.Why does the North East need 2 airports? You cannot use the train to get to the airport,I was told that using the bus is not much of an option either So its a car or taxi journey to travel to the airport.There is less choice each year to where you can fly to, and the footfall through the terminal is decreasing each year also.Whats the point of having an airport if no one is using it.Once the people from Teesside get used to the idea that flying from Newcastle,Leeds, Manchester or even East Midlands Airport is the only way to reach their holiday destinations,then there is no longer a need for Teesside Airport.The CAA passenger statistics don't lie,the call to scrap passenger flights could be sooner than you think.

[N707ZS]

Yawn, ground hog day again! MP talking out of his :mad:

ILS32 overshoot and go around back to the LBA unless you have anything useful to say.

Bit of LBA info for you.
Losses widen at Leeds Bradford Airport (http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2012-04-16/losses-widen-at-leeds-bradford-airport)

[Lancelot37]

We all know when an M.P is talking rubbish - his mouth is open!

[DTVAirport]

I think people might find themselves both surprised and pleased with where DTVA finds itself in around two years from now. I'm not saying we'll be back to our (2006) best - that would be an achievement and a half! But we should be in a 'healthy' position.

Of course, that won't stop certain biased, scared-of-a-little-competition individuals on here from finding reasons to bash us, we could have a 10x daily A380 route to Sydney and they'd still find reason to moan!!!

[davidjohnson6]

DTVAirport - it is always nice to hear of someone with optimism, but your optimism will be accepted by others only if there is a visible reason to have positive thoughts.
Give good objective reasons to convince others why things are looking up, and people will back you.

Alas, the most positive thing I can think of, is that the Turkish and Southampton routes closed over a year ago, so the decline in monthly passengers numbers compared to the month a year earlier has now largely stopped. Thus, I expect passengers numbers for winter 2012/13 to be largely similiar to those in winter 2011/12. I'm struggling to find a reason as to why things are improving.
Or to put it another way, the patient has stopped losing blood, but they are not getting better.

Perhaps you could indicate some of the reasons as to why you think in 2014, MME will be in a healthy position ?

[DTVAirport]

All you need to know is that my sources are supremely reliable.

I wouldn't share my information on a respectable forum so I most certainly won't be sharing it on here.

I'm no liar and you have my word that positive things are happening behind the scenes.

[Lancelot37]

I do hope that you are correct, only time will tell. We want to see DTVA survive, but would prefer it to be called Teesside once again as that is what everyone still calls, and knows, it as.

[pug]

Stupid this for that MP to say.

Equally, DTVAirport, if you know something then share it, otherwise why bother posting?

[ILS32]

Kevan Jones MP gets rubbished mainly because he is saying the things that you don't want to hear.His basic premise was that Teessside couldn't compete with Newcastle in regard to passenger operations..If you look at all the published data ,then he is correct.
I only asked the question was he talking sense.The rose tinted glasses brigade will disagree.The question in regard to has Teesside got a future will not go away.

[TSR2]

If you look at all the published data ,then he is correct

10 year growth/decline.

NEWCASTLE
Total pax 2001 - 3,431,393
Total pax 2011 - 4,346,270
Increase in pax - 914,877 (+26.66%)

DTV
Total pax 2001 - 733,617
Total pax 2011 - 192,410
Decrease in pax - 541,207 (-73.77%)

[DTVAirport]

So there's a massive decline so what?! Doesn't mean we won't one day bounce back! I can't share what I know because I'm told it's commercially sensitive but in the same breath it's nice to let people know that there may well be light at the end of the tunnel.

Say what you like about Mr Duran's comments, the fact of the matter is he's heavily outnumbered!

[TSR2]

So there's a massive decline so what?! Doesn't mean we won't one day bounce back

Will have to be a mighty big bounce then. With just over 260 departing passengers per day, anyone with any commercial sense would be sensible in questioning the future particularly with a successful alternative just up the road.

Having said that, I hope you are correct.

[davidjohnson6]

The MP is probably asking the wrong question.
An airport is a piece of land that has been substantially modified to allow people in the area to travel very quickly to other places in Europe.
That piece of land is ultimately a local resource, and the question to be asked, is whether this resource gives the greatest benefit to local people by being used for air transport, or whether it would give greater benefit in some alternate use.

Scrapping passenger flights at MME but keeping the land as an airport achieves relatively little for the people of Middlesbrough, apart from maybe encouraging other airlines to open routes to NCL (e.g. LH to Frankfurt for onward connections).

If MME is acting as a major drain on local Govt funds so that other projects that would benefit the area cannot take place, or there is a clear need for a large area of land for some alternate use, then closing the airport may be worthwhile. Otherwise, best for Govt to let it carry on until someone comes up with a better use for the land.

[CaptainDoony]

We all want to see our local airport doing well - good news at mine warrants a few fist pumps usually.

I don't like it when users say negative things about my local and will often defend but in the case of ILS62 I believe he was trying to deliver a dose of reality. Six years of continual decline with no signs of an upturn has got to be ringing alarm bells in even the biggest of advocates.

The MP is an idiot but with only ~500 people passing through the doors each day people on here have got to be asking themselves is it worth keeping the airport operating when you have a major airport with a ton of routes 40 miles up the road.

I certainly think that with UK aviation at least possibly showing signs of an upturn, DTV should be given 2-3 years to get numbers on the up.

I have tried to give a balanced, neutral viewpoint so if you're going to flame me as well, try to do it constructively. :ok:

Cheers

[LGS6753]

It's a good job this Labour politician has no authority, isn't it?
Keep airports (and everything else) away from politicians - they will surely screw them up given half a chance.

[Northbound A1]

Wouldnt surprise me if the same Durham MP wasnt aware of the £5m kickback which the ex boss of Newcastle Airport gave himself when he arranged the refinancing of the £250m loan for Newcastle Airport.
Tyne tees news ran a story about it after a court case this week and they have blamed the local councils for not keeping an eye on the contracts before sanctioning the ex boss and his massive commision... £5 million!
BBC News - Newcastle Airport loses case over £8m paid to directors (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-19802386)

Was the MP be behind the sale of Teesside to Peel as well, lets face it the contract was a joke giving Peel most of the shares after waiting ten years!

It wouldnt surprise me with his latest comments about not wanting passenger flights at DTV. Is he in the same lodge as the rest of the Peel funny handshakers ;)

Talking of lodge members...The DTV Chairman (who lives in Cheshire) wrote a personal letter in tonights Evening Gazette after members of the public had asked for someone else to take control of the airport instead of running it into the ground...same old spin was the reply :hmm:

[SWBKCB]

I'll have a pint of what he's drinking...





On second thoughts, perhaps not a good idea.

[VentureGo]

Yes! The MP is an idiot - (with history)! He was loathed as a councillor of Newcastle City Council, He has alienated true Labour members in North West Durham by supporting, for example, Stanley Town Council when he couldn't "get his way" in the larger Derwentide District Council.- However, I believe he is absolutely correct in calling for support for ONE Airport for the North East Region. - Surface links from Teeside (especially M'bro, Stockton & Hartlepool) need upgrading with Airport Coach & Express Rail links to Newcastle Airport with maximum travel time of less than an hour in comfortable Intercity style coaches. Hopefuly such a move will incentivise Airlines to increase the number & quality of routes to more European hubs and Intercontinental destinations direct from our region.

[johnnychips]

VentureGo

I don't see an issue here.

DTV's main route is Amsterdam, and KLM would not operate it if it were not profitable, but KLM also have a good service from Newcastle - five flights a day on weekdays, so it's not as if the existence of DTV is somehow depriving Newcastle of hub connections.

DTV also do some holiday destination flights, but I think these are equally available from Newcastle.

Also I think Eastern's flights from DTV - mostly seeming to be oil/chemical related - duplicate those from Newcastle (though I'm not 100% sure on this), so again Newcastle isn't being deprived of a service by the presence of DTV.

As for public transport, apart from solo travellers, parking the car at the airport or taking a pre-booked taxi will always be much more convenient and probably cheaper. This applies equally to DTV and Newcastle, though I know the Metro reaches the latter. And if solo travellers are business people their firm will probably pay for a taxi anyway.

[mmeman]

busy on the ramp tonight and probably looks quite impressive! A 777, A330, A320, Fokker 70 and J41!

[Lancelot37]

Any info on the 777? Who's etc.

[davidjohnson6]

Lancelot - you might find the following page useful:
Airport Movements Saturday 6th October 2012 (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/2012Months/201210Oct/Oct06.htm)

[highwideandugly]

Anyone aware of any Scottish diversions due to the problems up there? surely this is is our time!!

Boost the coffers and reputation ??

[davidjohnson6]

Main points:
- MME-AMS route saw a modest improvement but NCL-AMS had a bigger improvement
- MME-PMI took a big tumble
- MME continues to lose market share both for the Amsterdam route and for non-route-specific passengers numbers to NCL

Durham Tees Valley overall
Sep 2012 - 14,504 passengers, down 4.7%
Rolling year - 164,167 passengers, down 17.4%

Note the 17.4% decline in the rolling year figure is dominated by the loss of the Turkish sunshine routes which ended in August 2011. While the absence of any new sunshine routes at MME means more of the beach holiday traffic has moved long-term to NCL, this is not useful in measuring day-to-day performance at MME in the last few months.

The 4.7% decline in the Sep 2012 month figure versus Sep 2011 comes down to 3 things
- Loss of Catania + Verona charters (-588 passengers)
- Significant decline in Palma / Mallorca route (-458 passengers)
- Modest improvement on Amsterdam route (+215 passengers)

For comparison:
Newcastle overall
Sep 2012 - 487,746 passengers, up 1.6%
Rolling year - 4,351,792 passengers, down 0.1%

NE England market share
If we assume that MME and NCL compete to some degree with each other and that those living particularly in County Durham can choose either airport
MME's market share of commercial passenger traffic in NE England :
Sep 2011 - 3.08%
Sep 2012 - 2.89%

Aberdeen route:
MME Sep 2012 - 2,915 passengers, up 2.5% or +72 passengers
NCL Sep 2012 - 1,886 passengers, down 11.3% or -240 passengers
There seems to be a sustained, albeit rather small, growth story for MME on the Aberdeen route over the last few months.

Amsterdam route:
MME Sep 2012 - 9,181 passengers, up 2.4% or +215 passengers
NCL Sep 2012 - 25,001 passengers, up 4.1% or +995 passengers
Yes, an improvement in absolute terms, but again a loss of market share. MME has 26.9% of the NE England - KLM market in Sep 2012, down from 27.2% in Sep 2011

Palma route:
MME Sep 2012 - 1,847 passengers, down 19.9% or -458 passengers
NCL Sep 2012 - 38,353 passengers, down 0.3% or -97 passengers
There were 4 Saturdays in Sep 2011, but 5 Saturdays in Sep 2012.
Not sure what the story is with Palma...

[skyman771]

davidjohnson66,
The 4.7% decline in the Sep 2012 month figure versus Sep 2011 comes down to 3 things
- Loss of Catania + Verona charters (-588 passengers)
- Significant decline in Palma / Mallorca route (-458 passengers)
- Modest improvement on Amsterdam route (+215 passengers)
Agreed but note the above summary covers virtually everything that is happening bar the Aberdeen schedule, & of course military transport related movements.
When you get down to analysing stats with such low volumes, then short term comparisons may not be accurate. However given the trends then things look grim :{.
From my perspective those living locally that I have spoken to are now resigned to the fact that DTV is no longer offers a practical answer to their transport needs & have all but written the place off.
To turn this around if indeed pax growth is the direction management are looking to take, will require a serious amount of marketing with exciting new popular routes. I doubt that neither Peel has neither the ability nor the inclination to do so, & in any event this market is amply catered for by neighbouring airfields.

[highwideandugly]

Unfortunately..Skyman is probably right..the patient is probably too far gone.

I optimistically thought we would get a few Scottish movements today as they have no fuel..of course I forgot..we have no firemen!!

Note a couple of aircraft have just arrived for scrapping..maybe that's the future(im sure I said that before) end the cost of commercial flying..amply covered by other airports and concentrate on ancillary tasks.
We could become the number 1 UK airfield for this type of business...we have the space?

Fire school,Cobhams, scraping,FRL and flying clubs..why not? it will still provide employment and airfield usage without the cost(no I don't work for Peel!)

Time to get real?

[P330]

Ok, all of my comments are small fry in the scheme of things but nevertheless, relevant and I guess we're into talking about such small detail now....

DTVA Airport - Still interested to hear on the projected optimism from his posts - is something in the offing?

Sycamore - Two 737s arrived this afternoon for scrapping. In terms of increasing revenue but from non-passenger operations, this kind of thing has to be positive - even if it doesn't give the passenger numbers a lift.

Troops - Over the last few weeks, we've seen at times daily 777 and A330 movements. How are these captured? Do they compare well v last year? Its got to bring some revenue for the airport?

KLM - Firstly, pleased to see an improvement, particularly when last year we still had the Saturday night/Sunday morning service, so we're seeing an increase based on fewer rotations. Another quirk here is KLM's recent change of policy on business class seating, meaning no business class passenger is sat next to another on Euro flights. So, when we're looking at load factors, remember that 5 rows of business seats means 10 less seats to fill (2 empty seats per row). I was on a Friday afternoon flight back to Teesside a couple of weeks back and I have never seen business so full - we must have had 10 rows of Europe Select. I know the flight was fully booked - yet the load factor will probably tell you it had 60 seats out of 80 filled...which is 75%. So, when analysing the loads...we have to be mindful that 80% could be a dream scenario and low loads but a high quantity of business passengers is likely a bigger driver on the bottom line.

(BTW - 10 rows in business is probably an exception - never seen it like that and I travel KLM at least twice a month).

[NorthSouth]

Troops - Over the last few weeks, we've seen at times daily 777 and A330 movementsAnyone know why they go to DTV and not to Leeming, when presumably the troops are going to/from Catterick - Leeming's closer, runway lengths are virtually the same and using Leeming must be a lot cheaper.
NS

[N707ZS]

These charters use DTVA because Leeming hasn't got a terminal, ground equipment, ground crew and probably fire cover. And it's only open 9 to 5 most days and shut on a weekend.
DTVA is ideal or so I have been told.

[glans tomlinson]

Pax, pax, pax. Seems to me as a lay observer that some ' buying' of passengers has been going on at the big players in the North east. EGNT £300 million in debt and losing circa £1 per pax, http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif EGNM unknown debt but lost £10 million last year. EGNV no debt and rumoured to be close to break even now. If we talk about sustainable business I know where I would put my money.

[skyman771]

glans tomlinson
EGNV no debt and rumoured to be close to break even now. If we talk about sustainable business I know where I would put my money.
Well what can I say !, this must be a non accountants view, I don't know as to what you base your opinion on, but must be the evidence of some very creative accounting... "No Debt !!" I assume lost somewhere in reorganisation, certainly hasn't been cleared by revenues & not much else has improved.
The above statement re DTV, which one hopes was made "tongue in cheek", other than in ignorance, means nothing, & taken in isolation is downright dangerous!:ugh:

[DTVAirport]

glans tomlinson has hit the nail on the head and I'll verify what he says is 100% accurate. MME, whilst still making a (very) small loss, is in no debt whatsoever.

With regards to Sycamore, if they grow to the levels stated in their business plan we wouldn't need passengers - any flights gained would be merely a bonus, rather than the desperately needed necessity they are now! (For the record, I'm not at all suggesting we shouldn't be chasing airlines for routes!!)

A lack of Immigration at Leeming is the main reason for the charters using us.

[glans tomlinson]

Dear Skyboy771, constructive criticism of my post is most welcome. However, if all you can offer is inane drivel then I suggest your time would be better spent on your xbox.;)

[Wellington Bomber]

North South

Get your head round this one

I have a family member in the forces based at Catterick, his regiment or platoon had to travel to Brize Norton to catch the B777 that was parked up at DTV

Explain that one?

[Hipennine]

"MME, whilst still making a (very) small loss, is in no debt whatsoever."

Well, technically correct, but the last set of published statutory accounts do include the little matter of £23,795,748 of "Other short-term finance", which is presumably cash from Peel shoring up the operation.

[NorthSouth]

I have a family member in the forces based at Catterick, his regiment or platoon had to travel to Brize Norton to catch the B777 that was parked up at DTV

Explain that one?I'm guessing his unit was attached to a larger formation based in the south that was boarding the aircraft at Brize and Air Movements Squadron wanted them all boarding together?

On the other hand if he went to Brize then got bussed back to DTV to board the aircraft, Peel are clearly on to a winner here - "Durham Tees Valley Brize Norton Airport" :)
NS

[Northbound A1]

I fear that this news could be the final nail in the coffin for DTV.

The reporter mentions that the government will not be supporting the Peel bid for the £5.9m grant, and the Peel management are holding a board meeting tomorrow to discuss the latest developments.

Blow for Durham Tees Valley Airport as regeneration cash bid rejected (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9991433.Blow_for_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_as_regeneration_ cash_bid_rejected/)

Peel are on the other hand are now sitting on hundreds of acres of very valuable building land, which was given away by a select few in the councillors ten years ago for £500,000.

Something fishy about the whole deal to me.

:rolleyes: