DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[highwideandugly]

well 2011 is upon us..wonder what awaits our wonderful airport?
starts off badly with Ryanair pulling out.All the good work with Thomson lost in one swoop! Any chance of someone replacing? Jet 2 Easy? or maybe a foreign airline?

Wonder what Peel/Vas are doing to encourage traffic..no doubt they will be burning the midnight oil at the routes conference again.Does anything ever come of these?

Of course if I was really cynical I could ask why the airport yet again was affected by ice this morning when the temperature wasnt too bad?KLM off to Newcastle(again)Thomson delayed out by 3/4 hours.Could it be that someone in their wisdom decided not to de ice the runway and wait for the sun to melt it?? If true its a disgrace and not what our customers or remaining airlines deserve.I agree though...very cost efective!!! Blessing we only had 2 flights !!

OK shout at me...

ps and we wont win the cup either this year!!

[DTVAirport]

Didn't think the news of Ryanair pulling out would have lead the news like it has, BBC Tees had a good interview today though with someone who stuck up for the airport & criticised anyone who goes to alternative airports because of the new tax only to pay more in parking & fuel. This is the atitude everyone needs to take!!

What surprised me is someone from Peel said Ryanair had already decided to leave prior to the announcement of the tax.

[paarmo]

High wide I think you will find the Thomson delay was a LBA knock on and nothing to do with Teesside.
Losing Ryanair is not the worst news in the world. Their ALC flight was always well populated and so their assertion that the route was being pulled in November before the passenger surcharge is strange.Eastern and KLM both disagree with the surcharge and both say so in public. KLM have never to my knowledge disagreed with MME policy publicly even when the strangest ideas of the so called management team were released.
This appears to be the tipping point for the Canadians. Have they something up their sleeves or are they about to close the airport and commit professional suicide? If they close then no one will ever believe them again and their promises will count for nothing.

[JKKne]

Didn't think the news of Ryanair pulling out would have lead the news like it has, BBC Tees had a good interview today though with someone who stuck up for the airport & criticised anyone who goes to alternative airports because of the new tax only to pay more in parking & fuel. This is the atitude everyone needs to take!!

What surprised me is someone from Peel said Ryanair had already decided to leave prior to the announcement of the tax.

It's all well criticising people for going elsewhere but they won't use DTV because there's not enough flights and the infrastructure (or at least shops, restaurants etc) isn't good enough

I always tried to use the Airport when I lived in the UK but to get where I needed to be it often involved either taking very expensive charter flights or connecting through AMS when I could toddle up to NCL or EDI and get a direct scheduled flight for half the price.

If there's a large group going away on holiday it's just as cost effective to hire a minibus or taxi and get up to NCL so I don't buy the fuel cost argument, nearly every taxi company in the area does decent deals on NCL airport transfers

Regardless of the merits of any fee it's going to put people off purely on a PR basis. It's got negative connotations.

[MME4eva]

Despite a fear of sounding like a typical pre-25 yr old ppruner I don't mind saying I've been told of four routes in the pipeline but have been told in confidence. Two we're already aware of so I'll share those - Larnaca & Paphos with Monarch apparantly still in the pipeline (VAS connection, which contradicts my 1st paragraph but hey ho), the third I'm supremely skeptical about & the fourth is possible I suppose but no idea who would operate it.


Are we to presume the rumours heard relate to the Monarch to Funchal one off route with Atlantic Holidays as well as the BA cityflyer routes to Naples and Bergamo, with Omega Holidays?

After a 12.5% increase in traffic in November, December figures are down by 4.5%. I suppose this can be largely put down to the numerous snow closures and Christmas schedules.

Can anyone shed any light on the reduced yet annual Grenoble charters? Are these privately booked in a similar way to the Lourdes flights?

[mattfalcus]

Ryanair starting Humberside-Alicante service. Obviously replacing our fairly popular route, but without the passenger fee in the terminal.

[SWBKCB]

Hardly a surprise and more bad publicity.

Concern for ?vital? airport as passenger numbers hit a low (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8816048.Concern_for____vital____airport_as_passenger_numbers _hit_a_low/)

[MME4eva]

Disappointing to see HUY gaining from our misfortune but I guess it is more of a deal with MAG airports more than HUY (which was probably part of the bargain with the 4 routes announced from MAN with FR)

[MME4eva]

Mr Tudor said it was unlikely any new routes would be introduced this year.


There's nowt like ambition :ugh:Surely we should be offering free EVERYTHING to Thomson to operate ALC in the summer and continue Sharm, Tenerife and (Vancouver owned) Paphos and Larnaca for winter 2011????

Whilst the likes of LBA (bmi LHR) DSA (Aer Lingus, FR to Dublin and Girona)suffer the same axes as MME, I must admit this proved some comfort but I am now starting to see the 'parting of the ways' with FR now expanding at DSA (FAO and TFS) and even HUY, I am beginning to genuinely think if we are seeing the beginning of the end for Durham Tees Valley.:bored:

[pug]

Not sure why you're confused about FR expanding at HUY, it has a bigger core catchment area than MME for a start, and i believe they are actually looking at adding more if the route does ok.

Clearly the ADF has had a negative impact, such a shame its come to this for MME. Hopefully there will be better news down the line.

[mmeman]

I can't believe the local authorities that still own a share in the airport (don't they?) can just sit back and let this happen. They must be applying some pressure on Peel/VAS to do something.

The manangement are always blaming the 'difficult time' in aviation, but I don't see another airport in whole country that has had such a shocking decline in passenger numbers. They must bear some responsibility.

As an example of poor management, there are some 1 off holidays with Omega holidays been arranged, but any mention of the them on the airport's website - not a thing, not even a press release. And if you go to the Airlines and Tour Operators list on the website, it still lists Airtours, Thomas Cook and Direct holidays which haven't flown from here for over a year, and under Thomson and First choice no mention of Tenerife and Sharm El Sheik.

To say at this stage of the year that there will be no new routes this year just shows that there is nothing in the pipeline at all, so what are the development/marketing teams doing?

Of course passenger numbers in 2011 will be even less than 2010, with the loss of Ryanair and Aer Lingus:eek:

I know we have the winter Thomson flights which is a good start, but if Thomson think there is a demand in winter for flights, why not a demand in summer? Even if it is just to Alicante, Tenerife etc...

Very sad state of affairs and the £6 fee just will not help, I hope the management see this and reverse a very poor decision.

[highwideandugly]

said it before and will say it again..if cobhams/frl pull out..the airport will close.the only meaningful revenue coming in is from those 2.
worringly..it may be out of everyones hands as the defence cuts may make the decision on our behalf.

the future...who knows..i think all airports are struggling..especially with domestic taxes..so (1)domestic flights imho are out of the question.
(2)international schedules..doubtful..never worked in the past when the economy was 'good' so why now.(3)Bucket and spade, well how many times do people really want to go to Spain(and can they afford it?)(4)now no military to fall back on
Its going to be a hard couple of years fo rDTV(and all airports) the question is can we survive as a going concern and come out the other end in decent shape?

Only time will tell...fingers/legs/cheques crossed !

[MME4eva]

As an example of poor management, there are some 1 off holidays with Omega holidays been arranged, but any mention of the them on the airport's website - not a thing, not even a press release. And if you go to the Airlines and Tour Operators list on the website, it still lists Airtours, Thomas Cook and Direct holidays which haven't flown from here for over a year, and under Thomson and First choice no mention of Tenerife and Sharm El Sheik.


:D

One look at the news section on the DSA website (who recently announced an INCREASE in pax numbers) shows how proactive the marketing team are in comparison to MME. It also mentions how DSA management have hit local travel agents advertising new TCX routes (inc. bonuses from TCX). Now I wonder if MME management (who are one in the same people as DSA????) have done that regarding TOM's winter routes?

[mercurydancer]

I used MME a couple of week back and it was worse than bad. In the arrivals hall was one man with a walkie talkie whilst a very aggressive drunk making threats of violence was permitted to wander around that part of the airport. I was extremely cautious as this was something that should have a visible presence of police, and not just a guys witha walkie talkie.

The 6 quid entrance fee is just stupid beyond imagining. If Peel want people to go there then its incentives they need, not disincentives.

The parking is punitively expensive. Even picking someone up can run into 5 quid very quickly.

If Peel wanted to create an "airport experience" then they have made the worst combination of negative factors I fan think of.

[pug]

If Peel want people to go there then its incentives they need, not disincentives.

Ever thought thats maybe what Peel/VAS want?

[blahblahblah]

One look at the news section on the DSA website (who recently announced an INCREASE in pax numbers) shows how proactive the marketing team are in comparison to MME. It also mentions how DSA management have hit local travel agents advertising new TCX routes (inc. bonuses from TCX). Now I wonder if MME management (who are one in the same people as DSA????) have done that regarding TOM's winter routes?

I think you will find the MME has no marketing department and this with 'route development' is actually based at DSA or LPL....I will let you draw your own conclusions as to where their loyalities lie:confused:

[NorthSouth]

Given that DSA's original business plan involved taking 87% of their traffic from other existing airports (never mind closure of Sheffield City), surely it's no surprise that Peel might soft-pedal (to say the least) on DTV?

NS

[skyman771]

Mr Tudor said it was unlikely any new routes would be introduced this year.
I am really surprised that only one comment specific to this statement so far. "This year " is only 28 days old and route development is written off ! I always thought that there were many lost souls at DTV who were hopelessly out of their depth, though the time for criticism has passed. Much as I questioned the KQ era, at least the ridiculous comments that ensued were muted attempts at positive spin, but now with management vested even more remote within the Peel regime, then what on earth is Robin Tudor hoping to achieve?
Perhaps I fear that he may actually wanting to ensure that on his CV that he was actually the last person who actually came out and faced the truth, though it would in retrospect be a seriously sad epitaph in the annals of the troubled history of Teesside Airport.:uhoh:

[N707ZS]

Perhaps Mr Tudor might get FlyLo for 2012. I see Kerry and miss Baines now work on the checkin for them!:}

Is there no Thomson to Alicante either this summer?

[paarmo]

The load figures for Dec 2010 for Thomson were very good, 85/95%. The yields appear to be good because they are not discounting to any great degree and the local travel agents are still pushing the holidays.
I really don't see what more can be done by Teessiders or any other outside influences. Mind you it is typical of MME's luck that Egypt may be going into an Islamic Republic just as the first flights to Sharm are warming up.
It's now down to VAS and not Peel.

[highwideandugly]

good to see Jet 2 737 x 2 at DTV today.Hope its a sign of the times? I get the feeling this might be more than crew training and might be a test to see if the airport can cope?

how about 3 x week to alicante and belfast to start with? Couple of palmas and you have a nice little one aircraft w pattern from leeds/newcastel at no great cost?

also think its about time someone like air berlin/norwegian low cost could work? again couple of times a week.

It seems to have gone pretty quiet up the road at newcastle with new routes..maybe its our turn?
fingers crossed

[sunshine79]

The 2 x LS a/c could be diversions due to high winds at LBA. A couple of flights were diverted earlier today. The winds are still pretty strong at the moment.

[Ops Guy]

might be a test to see if the airport can cope?

With what exactly??

[N707ZS]

Simple, curcuit bashing! I wonder if the old folk still whinge about training flights at Middleton one row. :mad: :mad:

[DTVAirport]

The two Jet2 flights were training, nothing more. I went to see them - first time I've ever been up to the airport when airliners have been in the circuit, something really 'special' about seeing that, don't quite know what though, but it kinda reminded me why I'm interested in aviation in the first place!

On a more alarming note, it's being reported elsewhere that we're losing the KLM service to Amsterdam, on further research it seems to only be the tea time flight. Can anyone confirm, or preferably, deny this?

[idlejack]

According to the KLM timetables there are still three flights per day but the tea time is moving to lunchtime.

[paarmo]

When you are on the floor and nearly out then things only seem to get worse.
First the situation in Egypt affecting bookings to the new Sharm holidays.
Then this Airport second worst for passengers figures (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/yoursay/8846953.Airport_second_worst_for_passengers_figures/)
and then as if things can't get any worse there is this.Airport admits gift was stolen by contracted security staff (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8849458.Airport_admits_gift_was_stolen_by_contracted_securit y_staff/)

Surely this has to be the bottom of the cycle. Things can only get better.............I hope!!!!!

[davidjohnson6]

Whenever I look at this thread - I'm always reminded of a bunch of die-hard supporters of the local football team who will turn out for an evening kick-off on a cold wet night in November, knowing full well the team they support is rubbish and will always stay in some backwater division, but refusing to ever contemplate watching the Premier League club whose players have talent a few miles away and who sometime get to play in the Champion's League

Local Govt owns 25% of MME. If MME makes a loss, that means the council has less money to spend on local services. Yes, some of the money you pay in council tax, indirectly, is used to subsidise MME.

How much more taxpayer money needs to be spent so people can save under an hour in travel time when they go on an annual holiday to a beach in Spain ?

Going 35 miles by train or road to use runway 07/25 really isn't that bad

[mmeman]

Actually 35 miles is that bad when there is an airport 5 minutes from my door. I had to go and pick up relatives from Newcastle last night and I was out for 2 hours 45 minutes where if they were able to fly to MME it would have been 30 minutes. (The A1 was also closed southbound). And they couldn't use public transport as the last train from Newcastle is at 22.45, and it is £40 - £50 for a taxi! Would the people of Newcastle or Leeds be prepared to do this regularly? Didn't think so...

[davidjohnson6]

mmeman - let me get this right.

Your relatives flew from Newcastle, because there was no suitable flight from MME, and you had to drive there and back to pick them up. You therefore have had to pay the fuel cost, and also spend almost 3 hours of your time

However, you still want your local council as a shareholder in MME, to continue indirectly subsidising MME, despite it meaning you are effectively paying more in council tax but aren't seeing the benefit from its existence. Forget about Westminster giving any more money for MME - Peel and the local Govt of Teesside are being left to fend for their own on this.

Yes, I know MME might get lots of flights in the future, but where are real prospects for MME's future growth (i.e. name some new airlines and routes which have a good chance of profitability and why an airline would not start them from NCL instead) and how long should one continue to subsidise in the hope that MME will revive before saying 'enough is enough' ?

[Piltdown Man]

MME has the airfield equivalent of Alzheimers. In its current state it's just a matter of time before it expires. It's staffed by far too many nice people but managed by a team bordering on the criminally insane. But it does have a choice. I'd suggest that it should become a LoCo airport (for airlines). And that doesn't mean you screw the punters! Instead, you combine the entire operation into catering/cleaners/check-in/loaders/security/push-back - everybody doing every job. Make the place a spotters paradise, have a pub on the roof, watch the aircraft come and go and because of the low staff costs (because there are so few) staff, money might actually be made. And there are other opportunies. How about market gardening in the green bits airside? Or even selling rabbit hunting rights? (sort of kidding - but have you seen how many there are?) And don't forget to make it attractive to the passengers, which is the reason it exists. Most GUM clinics would be more pleasant places to spend time. And I'm not talking about more staff, just an appropriate place for passengers to wait for their flights.

Ever since it changed it's name it has gone downhill. I remember one of the prats responsible having a go at me when I called it Darlington Municipal Aerodrome on a PA. I think he had to give his car key back for an unrelated offence a few weeks later. But it should be a brilliant little local airport and it could do so much more airport. Why doesn't it?

PM

[mccdatabase]

The Airport management need to realise that they exist to serve the airlines and their passengers. My experience of the previous regimes in charge at MME (going back almost 30 years) has been that they tend to try and dictate to the airlines how they should run their operation,this constant amateur meddling usually ends up with the airline getting tired of the hassle and pulling out.

MME needs to draw in business and if that means making a short term loss to rebuild its customer base then surely it makes sense rather than the current approach of trying to screw potential operators with high charges and passengers with stupid departure fees.

Try employing some security staff with customer friendly attitudes rather than the petty jobsworth dictators that infest the place normally

Try offering free car parking rather than trying to wring as much as possible out of passengers

MME needs fresh thinking. business minded. professional. airline friendly management to get it out of its current, possibly terminal (no pun intended) decline. It could be a great little airport and it deserves to survive and prosper but it needs the quality leadership that has been lacking for a long time

[NorthSouth]

mccdatabase, I think you don't quite understand the scale of the losses. The idea that "if that means making a short term loss to rebuild its customer base then surely it makes sense" is long past. They've already got short-term (and much longer ) losses, so the airport needs ANY money NOW just to keep going, hence all the penny-pinching and the jobsworth security guards on min wage part-time f**k you contracts.

What the airport actually needs is major investment which ties infrastructure to new services or vice versa.

NS

[TSR2]

and the jobsworth security guards on min wage part-time f**k you contracts

Still not an excuse for a f**k you attitude. Take pride in your performance or move on.

[highwideandugly]

nice to see some new input into this age old thread!!
unfortunately nothing has changed and nothing will.I fear the decline will increase with some rapidity this year.
I note on another forum that the airport is waving all charges for helicopter movements for two months..now can some one please tell me the logic in that one?
I also note that KLM have moved the tea time AMS to late lunch..3 departures to AMS within 6 hours..now that smacks to me of give it the summer and as figures will obviously drop,then great excuse to drop one of the rotations(if not all??)

I think the chances of a low cost carrier are nil full cost scheduled even more remote as the owners as mentioned earlier seem to find it very easy to upset existing customers never mind new ones.The infrastucture of the airport is now almost beyond repair??
the clock is ticking.....

[N707ZS]

Yawn!!:ok:

[paarmo]

I didn't realise reading this thread was compulsory N. If you don't like what you read then perhaps adult debate is beyond you.
Large capital letters show some character defect I have heard. I can't remember what it was offhand but I will research it and let you know.
In the meantime snide comments do not progress the debate.

[DTVAirport]

The free fees for Helicopters thing is a move by Weston Aviation & not the airport. It should also be noted that Weston are probably the best performing company on the airfield at the moment.

It's probably also related to the fact they've also just rented an office in their building to a company called "HeliNorth" I believe. Not sure what their speciality is (training, charter etc?) but it can only be a good thing?

[NorthSouth]

they've also just rented an office in their building to a company called "HeliNorth"HeliNorth doesn't (as at Dec 2010 at least) have an AOC although their website offers R22/R44/B206 charter flights. The website also says we have our own private base at Roots farm shop just off the A19 near East Rounton, from there we can offer pleasure flights and charter flights with no airport associated hasslewhich doesn't look much like a potential boost to helicoper movements at DTV.

NS

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Rumours abound that AMS will be gone by the Winter schedules, releasing capacity for KL to start service to BOH.......

[N707ZS]

Paarmo the Yawn was directed at the continuous you should fly from Newcastle calls and negative post. You must admit its getting boring.

And helicopters don't you have to operate training flights from a licenced airfield, might be reason for the office.

[NorthSouth]

don't you have to operate training flights from a licenced airfieldNot any more.

NS

[ConstantFlyer]

Rumours abound that AMS will be gone by the Winter schedules, releasing capacity for KL to start service to BOH.......


It's a bit parochial to assume that capacity would be transferred from one UK airport to another UK airport. KLM is a global airline, and the F70s that serve Teesside also serve Warsaw, Toulouse, Stuttgart, Stavanger and plenty of other European destinations. While some crews are UK-based (Air UK/KLMuk legacy), KLM will still be looking at tweaks to schedules and routes to ensure maximum yield across Europe for its F70s.

[pug]

It's a bit parochial to assume that capacity would be transferred from one UK airport to another UK airport.

I would agree with that, problem for MME being that KLM have voiced concern over the new passenger charges. With them also already fiddling with the current summer schedule it could have some truth in it. :(

[bad bear]

If the AMS flights go the activity level could be so low that it might be hard to justify retaining class "D" airspace, but who would have to present the ACP?
bb

[MME4eva]

The loss of the KLM would signal the end of MME as a commercial operation for sure but please let's not get carried away as the long protracted bmi pull out had such a detrimental effect on bookings and confidence that we could be in danger of creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

MME management would be wise to seek a sound bite from KLM management saying they had confidence in the airport ASAP (presuming they do of course)

[highwideandugly]

Interseting that this is a move by weston? surely the landing fees have to be paid by someone..so are you saying weston are absorbing the cost?? could be an expensive experiment by them..hope they have the finances and dtv dont drag the only airport bright light down? anyone know how much traffic/revenue it has raised in the first 2 weeks?

[DTVAirport]

The KLM timetable changes could mean absolutely nothing, but given what we've been through over the last five years, look me in the eye & tell me there's not serious cause for concern over the future of KLM at DTVA.

[paarmo]

At last someone is getting off their keyboards and actually trying to do something. Airport campaign launched (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8850650.Airport_campaign_launched/?ref=mr#commentsList)

(What exactly is a flash mob and do I have to wear a mac? )

[DTVAirport]

That's pathetic, it's more to do with the train station than the airport. I fully agree with the principle but there's better ways to go about it than that.

[papa oscar]

The helicopter incentive is a joint Airport and Weston Aviation venture.
With other airports in the vicinity offering similar deals, the idea is to encourage helicopter traffic to DTVA.

Remember 1% of 100 is better then 0% of 1,000,000.

[NorthSouth]

the idea is to encourage helicopter traffic to DTVAWhile the only actual helicopter company involved is openly broadcasting its intention to operate off-airport in order to avoid "hassle"?

NS

[SWBKCB]

The helicopter incentive is a joint Airport and Weston Aviation venture.

Anybody know how this is being promoted?

[Facelookbovvered]

Was there ever a final outcome to the court case between bmi & the airport over bmibaby withdrawing flights from MME? last i heard it had gone to appeal?:confused:

[N707ZS]

Once the flash mob get off the train it is a long way to the terminal unless they plan to get past the gate that divides the direct route from the station.

Was the plan to move the station scrapped along with the new trains?

[papa oscar]

Mail shot and email advertising to all UK helicopter operators.

[papa oscar]

While the only actual helicopter company involved is openly broadcasting its intention to operate off-airport in order to avoid "hassle"?

They simply have an office at DTVA. They have operated from another site since 2005. They never claimed to be operating helicopters from DTVA.

They could have occupied offices elsewhere, instead decided that DTVA offered the right location at the right price. Simples!!!

[Piltdown Man]

The KLM timetable changes could mean absolutely nothing, but given what we've been through over the last five years, look me in the eye & tell me there's not serious cause for concern over the future of KLM at DTVA.

KLM are in the business of making money. As long as there is a yield from MME traffic, they'll be there - providing the airport stays open, that is.

PM

[N707ZS]

Heard the only KLM flight that has low numbers is the Saturday afternoon flight the rest are supposidly doing quite well.

[highwideandugly]

thanks for the update on reasons/etc... the sad bug..r that I am has checked back over the first 2 weeks of this DTV incentive to see how it is going.
And the answers are ..in reverse order..

A grand total of 4 helicopter movements since the 1st of the month.Two of those on the same day were medical flights..who probably dont pay anything anyway??

me thinks yet another great vas/peel and now weston idea!!
not sure what this is doing for our reputation and balance sheet?

[davidjohnson6]

WTF ? CAA provisional stats show MME's terminal passenger numbers up 44% and air transport movements up 22% in January 2011 compared to January 2010

Passenger numbers, counting both arriving and departing, for Jan-2011 (Jan-2010 in brackets)
Aberdeen.............2,338.(2,145)...January 2009 had 2,453
Southampton...........581...(184)...Janaury 2009 had 0
Alicante...............1,495.(1,429)...January 2009 had 1,553
Amsterdam...........7,971.(6,530)...January 2009 had 7,988
Bridgetown.................0...(188)...Janaury 2009 had 0
Grenoble.................459...(867)...Janaury 2009 had 1,304
Sharm El Sheikh.....1,658......(0)...Janaury 2009 had 0
Tenerife................1,814.....(0)...Janaury 2009 had 429

Total...................16,316 (11,343)
Note my total doesn't quite match the CAA total passenger numbers, and that I've omitted routes which were dropped between Jan 2009 and Jan 2010 without resuming - e.g. Heathrow and Dublin. I would also imagine that for all routes apart from Aberdeen, Amsterdam and Southampton, the £6 charge on departing passengers hasn't yet shown its full impact, as many charter passengers will have booked before 15 November 2010 and thus potentially been able to show paperwork to avoid the charge.

<sits ready to eat some humble pie from MME's supporters>

How did MME manage that one ?
Am absolutely gobsmacked

[Kinocker]

Don't be gobsmacked.

The airport spent the busiest part of last January (i.e. the first part) shut due to snow and was slower to re-open than the other airports, hence the bounce this year.

[SWBKCB]

Yep - combination of the negative weather effect for Jan 2010 and the positive effect of the new TOM routes this winter (Sharm El Sheikh and Tenerife)

[apaul]

Also the TOM routes to Sharm El Sheikh and Tenerife fly at the weekend and there were 5 weekends in January 2011.

[highwideandugly]

A distinct lack of information flow on this thread recently? 15th february last post.

Take it the airport is still open and coining in the revenue from recent incentives and route announcements?

Or have we all just faded away like a once great airport.....

[sealink]

I worked at MME from time to time for British Midland. Loved the airport... even loved staying at the George Hotel ( think that was the name ).
Shame it seems to be a quiet base now. Have not been there in over 10 years. I think a flight between BHD ( my local ) and MME could be viable option with Baby or Flybe.

[highwideandugly]

hi looks like half the terminal boarded/closed off/lights out any idea what is happening? cant beleive its an extension?
also the south of the airfield has been recently fenced off..who does that belong to? is it the council/peel or vas?

me thinks its about time we had a statement from peel/vas..what is going on?

[ryansf]

If it's anything like what they've done at DSA, then it'll just be to save on heating and lighting bills. Makes sense to me, because, at DSA at least, the terminal is designed for 5 million pax with less than a million using it, so closing half of it off should save a fair bit of money! Apart from the money, most businesses seem to want to do their bit for the environment nowadays, so that could be a factor as well.

[TSR2]

the terminal is designed for 5 million pax with less than a million using it

Your too generous with that. Actually it is less than a quarter of a million or to be precise 224,673 in 2010.

[N707ZS]

The South side was fenced off about two years ago and was planned to be a buisness park before the downturn. The plans were all drawn up and approved the farmer got paid a decent sum for the land between the A67 and the fenced off area for an access road.

Terminal wise there was a plan for a lo cost side and a buisness side of the terminal, perhaps someone knows who and where too.

[johnnychips]

ryansf and TSR2

Makes sense to me, because, at DSA at least, the terminal is designed for 5 million pax with less than a million using it, so closing half of it off should save a fair bit of money!

There are just under a million using DSA, not c.224 000. If traffic picks up they can open the other half at DSA and I suppose it lets them film - sorry name gone - that TV programme with Little Britain stars in closed bit.

[ryansf]

Yep, I meant DSA, as I said in my original post - "at DSA at least, the terminal is designed for 5 million pax... "

Just to highlight that the reasons MME has been closed off are probably for the same as at DSA.

[TSR2]

Sorry, I overlooked the fact you were refering to DSA.

[highwideandugly]

lot of talk on the Easy pprune web page of Easy and its declining presence in the NE.
DSA/LBA not at the races.

Is it remotely possible that VAS/Peel have something upp their sleeve and that the decline at ncl might mean them giving DTV a couple of aircraft base? Better spread of passengers as edinburgh expanding,dtv further south than ncl?

[Flyit Pointit Sortit]

No.

Easy seem to be concentrating on the continent, Gatwick and Manchester. Unfortunately that means bases like Newcastle have to suffer as Stelios has thrown his toys out of the cot regarding expansion. That said the Geordies want bucket and spade routes with sun hence the reason that Alicante and Malaga do so well so easy will not pull these routes unless somthing seriously profitable comes along.

So ultimately ezy will not be big in the the NE but will keep a small presence on profitable routes. (much to my dismay as there is only so often that you can fly to Malaga without getting déjà vous).

[DTVAirport]

Peel/VAS could no doubt put together a second-to-none deal for easyJet to operate from all three of their airports, but even if easyJet were interested, they don't operate to airports outside of controlled airspace which rules out DTV.

However, I understand there are constant efforts to link DTV with an airway to rectify this situation but always to no avail.

[apaul]

If East Midlands and Doncaster were not big enough markets for easyJet why would an airport with a much smaller market and a £6 departure charge be of any interest?

[NorthSouth]

even if easyJet were interested, they don't operate to airports outside of controlled airspace which rules out DTVNo it doesn't. DTV has had controlled airspace for years. And in any case Easyjet does fly to airports with no CAS e.g. Inverness.

There is one reason why Easyjet don't fly to DTV. It's the same reason all the other airlines don't fly there.

NS

[skyman771]

Ref. easyjet
For absolute clarity Easyjet have no interest whatsoever of operating into DTV at any level. Indeed their commitment to the NE as a whole is on a downwards slide. Up the road there are feelings amongst many of thosed based crew members that sooner or later they will have to "upsticks & move on.
Flyit Pointit Sortit you have hit the nail precisely, although it's not good news for the NE, & indeed "the continent, Gatwick and Manchester" is precisely all that is on offer to displaced crew members.

On another tack it is actually completely illogical for DTVAirport to suggest :-
Peel/VAS could no doubt put together a second-to-none deal for easyJet to operate from all three of their airports
The response to this is a no brainer that in a sellers (EZY) market then any deal would be much more attractive to any airline IF DTV were ommitted from a Peel/VAS proposal!
It doesn't make sense that any group of airports could make a more profitable deal by requesing the airline to bolt on DTV into the equation. What Peel/VAS need to concentrate on is looking after their own EZY interest at LPL from its big boy neighbour (MAN)!

[peel]

It is true that Easy try to avoid airports outside controlled airspace, and although DTVA does have controlled airspace you still have to leave the safety of this airspace to get to the airway. :ok:

[SWBKCB]

From BBC Tees:

Durham Tees Valley Airport has reported a rise in passenger numbers for the first two months of 2011.

Figures for January showed 17,203 passengers used the airport compared to 11,719 a year ago.

In February passenger numbers totalled 16,266, compared to 13,087 in the same month in 2010.

Owners Peel Airports said the figures showed people had not been put off by the introduction of £6 passenger facility fee in November 2010.

Airport director Mike Morton said Durham Tees Valley was "fighting back" after overall passenger numbers plummeted by 63,000 in 2010.

BBC News - Rise in passengers using Durham Tees Valley Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12710030)

[david.crosby]

I contacted Flybe about starting any new routes from Durham Tees Valley. I asked if there would be any planned for the future. At the moment they will not be creating any routes yet. But with the Loss of the NCL-STN route I think there is more chance of a new route to london from a North East Airport. I used the NCL-STN route about 8-10 times a year and it was on average 70% full. I would love an airline to fly to London from my own local airport. I would use it and many others would. I think a Dash 8 would suit the route and I would say it would be 70-90 percent full all time time.

[andrewmcharlton]

The figures are a little better but it has to be akin to including the Titanic in shipping figures and working forwards. The only way is up (hopefully).

[david.crosby]

Lets hope the ways up and MME gets back to the good old days with passengers nearing 1,000,000. I am hoping for that one day soon. I do a lot of plane spotting and only go to MME if there is a new aircraft there. I would love to spend a whole day there but you cant. Also I think the airport is in a great location. Just needs them flights

[skyman771]

Hi David, welcome to pprune, unsure as to whether you have perused the various forums, however :- David.Crosby I do a lot of plane spotting and only go to MME if there is a new aircraft there.
There is also a forum set up specifically to cater for your interests :- Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner)

[david.crosby]

I do understand you about the plane spotting part and about the other forums. But i was just saying lets hope DTVA gets back to the old days of near 1,000,000 passengers.

[apaul]

I fear the rises for January and February will turn out to be a dead cat bounce. For March the Aer Lingus flights to Dublin will be in the comparative figures in 2010 but not 2011 and from April 2010 the Ryanair flights. The airport will be back to stagnation at best.

[david.crosby]

I emailed Jet2 about creating a base at DTVA and I got this reply

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

While we appreciate your valuable suggestion, unfortunately we are unable to comment on any future routes to be announced.

Ah well maybe in the future they may just try DTVA out

[skyman771]

I emailed Jet2 about creating a base at DTVA
Ironically you probably made more progress and showed a more positive determination than that reflected over recent years by Ms **:mad:** and the rest of the crew that made up the DTVA marketing dept !:E

[david.crosby]

I probs do, I love my local airport and wish it gets better. I should go to DTVA and work there. i would probs get more routes than they do. They need to get onto every airline and offer them things they cant say no. We need more airlines

[davidjohnson6]

For those who are interested, I've pulled together the numbers from the CAA website for February 2011, Feb 2010 and Feb 2009

It appears that the flights to Cardiff, Stansted and Liverpool were all one-off charters, so should probably be ignored. Aberdeen, Alicante and Amsterdam all seem pretty stable compared to 2010. Southampton ahs seen big growth in percentage terms, but as it's a small route, this is still a small change in absolute passenger numbers. The big story compared to 2010, as with January 2011, is the weekly Thomson routes to both Tenerife and Sharm El Sheikh.

.........................2011....2010....2009
Aberdeen............2,612...2,505...2,399
Southampton.........604......426.........0
Amsterdam..........8,228...8,158...7,771
Alicante..............1,437...1,486...1,471
Tenerife.............1,494..........0.........0
Sharm El Sheikh ..1,344..........0.........0
Heathrow..................0.........0...4,423
Dublin.......................0.........0...3,150
Cardiff......................0........42.........0...one-off charter ?
Stansted..................0..........0........70...one-off charter ?
Liverpool..................0..........0........31...one-off charter ?
Total................15,719..12,575....19,315

[david.crosby]

Great work Davidjohnson6. great table. and it shows you what 2 routes from thomson was great result

[N707ZS]

We don't seem to be getting many of the Leeds diversions anyone know why. Lack of staff?

[mattfalcus]

A summary of some of Mike Morton's points on the BBC Tees phone-in this morning:


- The airport name is still "up for grabs" and open to discussion - especially now we have Vancouver as the main shareholder. Lots of feeling about it, and a return to Teesside Airport "not ruled out" if it's right.
- They recognise that signposts still say Teesside Airport, and you'll often check in for a flight to Teesside Airport rather than DTVA at a foreign airport.
- Thomson winter flights have been a "massive success" and as such they will return with Alicante, Sharm el Sheikh and Tenerife next winter.
- Thomson summer flights will have larger aircraft this year (757?)
- If the airport station had greater use and passenger numbers were higher, they'd support it with a bus service.
- They will be revisiting the Sunderland Air Show traffic to try and get them back
- Were unable to keep hold of Aer Arann/Aer Lingus because ash cloud had a knock on effect, and didn't give it enough time to work for the airline. They are looking at Dublin and Belfast routes for future.
- Had discussions with a Middle Eastern carrier to start Asian route from one of the Peel airports - it could be here.
- Ryanair won't return in the short term. Doesn't believe Heathrow or Gatwick flights will return; other London airports possible.
- Discussing 'Friends of Durham Tees Valley Airport' with local enthusiasts soon to promote the airport in the community
- Making repairs to the Terminal roof, which has been bad for some time
- GA activity is the "heart and soul of the place". They want to see the flying school succeed and will support them.

[airhumberside]

- Thomson summer flights will have larger aircraft this year (757?)
Should indeed be an EDI based B757 operating PMI

[globetrotter79]

Based on the Thomson summer program, it does indeed appear to be the EDI-based aircraft that will operate the PMI-MME-PMI charters this summer.

Furthermore, just to make life a little bit more interesting, Jethros Fleet Listings mentioned that Astraeus B757 G-OJIB is due to be leased to Thomson for the May-October period to cover the EDI base...so presumably it will be this aircraft that we'll see in MME.

[N707ZS]

Big shame they cannot keep the winter flights running through the summer I am quite sure they could sell Sharm El Sheikh, Tenerife and difinitely Alicante.

[skyman771]

Had discussions with a Middle Eastern carrier to start Asian route from one of the Peel airports - it could be here.
Presumably Etihad, though no logic whatsoever to look at DTV unless see large market in NE as a whole & EK's link to NCL keeping them out. Reality is that the whole infrastructure requires significant improvement to take this quote seriously!

[NorthSouth]

the whole infrastructure requires significant improvement to take this quote seriouslyI presume you mean the whole infrastructure of Teesside, rather than the whole infrastructure of Durham Tees Valley Airport, since no amount of the latter can create the demand for air travel that would make the airport viable.
NS

[paarmo]

I don't really see that having trains stop at a station which cannot be used to enter the airport or putting on buses will help the airport. The car is King. The new(ish) exit from the A66 is excellent and the surrounding motorway and A road system is second to none. The winter Thomson schedule has proven it. Give us the destinations that we want and Teessiders and people from further afield will support the airport.
If the renaming of the airport is still open then the sooner they revert to the roadsigns and departure boards in most airports the better.
If Easyjet open a base at Teesside then I will do a Bernie Slaven.

[johnnychips]

For non-football fans:

His customary goal celebration was to jump upon the fence at the Holgate End at Boro's old ground, Ayresome Park.

However, from the same Wikipedia source:

he was weak in the air

Not the best role-model for MME :}

[david.crosby]

I wouldnt mind the name transfer back to Teesside if it will get us more routes. Glad to see Thomson are happy with the route sucess. Would be better for them to have done a few summer flights. An Asian route at DTVA would that work. It could be in direct comp to Emirates from Newcastle. I dont think they would put a Asian route from Liverpool as you only have to travel to Manchester and Emirates have the A380. We will see.

Also routes for London, No heathrow or Gatwick, where would it be City, luton or Stansted. For me Luton would be the best. But thats me as im so near to Luton.

[N707ZS]

How about a route to Southend? What do we think of that would it work?

Asian route would something like the Air Blue A320/1 operation at Manchester work, is 23/05 long enough for such a flight?

And finally if the station was moved from its current position to somewhere near the Oak pub it might be more useable. The service bus passes along this road and could easily pick pax up and drop them at the terminal door. With the current station removed the bottom end could be opened up for aviation.

[mattfalcus]

I think the Asian route was more along the lines of India or Pakistan, rather than the Gulf States. Something like Leeds Bradford has with PIA and Air Blue to Manchester as already mentioned.

[SWBKCB]

- Had discussions with a Middle Eastern carrier to start Asian route from one of the Peel airports - it could be here.

or could be one of the other Peel Airports with larger Asian populations in their catchement areas...

[EuroChallenger]

The amsterdam figures suggest impressive load factor. 8228 passengers, 3 flights per day, 28 days in the month, average of 98 pax per flight! That looks pretty good to me, and if those figures are corrrect, I would think KLM would be more than happy with those figures.

However, the aircraft is often a Fokker 70, so I do not think the above figures add up, or, where there some charters to Amsterdam etc?

[pug]

EuroChallenger, there are 6 flights per day, 3 each way.

[GAXLN]

Eurochallenger, you have forgotten the need to divide by 2 as you need to count the flights out and in - by my reckoning that's an average of forty-nine per flight or 61% seat factor. As an old teacher of mine would have said, "Could do much better!" I doubt that this puts MME at the top of KLM's class.

[EuroChallenger]

Ah yes, I thought I had the figures wrong somewhere!

So an average of 49 pax on a 70 seater a/c is not bad, but as said, could be better!

[N707ZS]

I have been told the Saturday afternoon flight doesn't do very well thus affecting the whole months figures.

SWBKCB There's plenty of Asian's around the Teesside catchment area.

[GAXLN]

Eurochallenger, write out 100 lines "The KLM Fokker 70 seats 80 passengers not 70"! :)

[paarmo]

Dear Johnnychips. The answer is nowhere near as mundane for Bernie Slaven.
Binns Window – Bernie Slaven Official Website (http://www.bernieslaven.co.uk/2010/04/binns-window/)

[johnnychips]

Oh! :eek:

[Alvechurch]

paarmo

That's amazing!
No, not Bernie Slaven's bottom, the fact that the referee didn't give Manchester United the usual 6 minutes of extra time to draw level. :eek:

[skyman771]

I wouldnt mind the name transfer back to Teesside if it will get us more routes.
I am unsure that the name change can be directly blamed for loss of routes. On the other hand I am more convinced that a reversion back to the original name at this late stage will do little to address the mess created by the earlier misguided bunch of amateurs.:ugh:

Presumably those posting on this thread that have convinced themselves that the DTV catchment area would be sufficient to support a service to India / Pakistan have attended the Michael O'leary geography course!;)

[andrewmcharlton]

Presumably those posting on this thread that have convinced themselves that the DTV catchment area would be sufficient to support a service to India / Pakistan have attended the Michael O'leary geography course!;)

Delhi West = Stansted ?:8

[NorthSouth]

The approach radar function for Doncaster is already done from Liverpool and a huge amount of technical and management effort was invested in achieving that. It's therefore sensible to place DTVA on the same footing. Anything that saves costs at DTVA may help to keep the airport open so it seems to me it's something to be supported. They've already doubled-up a lot of the ATC jobs between DSA and DTVA. If the radar controller jobs all went to Liverpool you'd still have tower controllers at DTVA. You surely have to accept that, with the tiny number of IFR movements at DTVA, you can't expect the owners to keep paying ATCOs to sit doing nothing for much of the day.

NS

[onion]

ATCOs at MME dont sit around doing nothing! Have you ever been there? Just because there are few schedule movements doesn't mean it isn't a busy unit! There are many different problems that controllers at MME deal with on a daily basis! These include the large amount of military movements through the Vale of York (less recently but still busy), the large amount of GA traffic in the area as well as dealing with traffic entering and leaving air ways.
I do believe that it is an advantage to have controllers in the local area, I know its not essential!
On top of this the cost of employing controllers at LPL is alot more expensive than at MME!

[rodan]

It's not just about controller numbers though, is it? Although you can do three radar positions from one ops room with a lower ATCO salary cost than would be required by doing the same tasks from three ops rooms, it's also about requiring fewer Tels engineers, assistants and other ancilliary functions, and less infrastructure. If you're going to fight this, (and you should imho), then don't try to argue that the suits have got their sums wrong. Instead, make the case for your local knowledge and expertise that will be lost, and explain why that should valuable to them.

[NorthSouth]

onion: Agreed, the LARS task is a significant part of the DTVA ATC effort. But "busy" is always a relative term and I would be surprised if traffic levels around DTVA anything like matched those seen in the SE. Additionally, DTVA's LARS coverage is almost completely overlapped by Leeming and Newcastle so while it might be valid to argue for local knowledge etc etc, the accountants may well see a strong case for ditching LARS.

In any case I'm not convinced by the "local knowledge" argument. Take RAF controllers. They get posted every couple of years and I can't recall anyone ever suggesting that they provide a defective service because they haven't lived there long enough.

NS

[peel]

Rodan. Why would you need less tels engineers? The radar, ILS, DME, NDB and radio transmitters and recievers dont go to liverpool as well.

[NorthSouth]

Simple. Get each tels eng to do more e.g. 3 days at DSA, 2 days at DTVA. More work for less (or if you're lucky, the same) pay. It's what everyone seems to be expected to do now. Aren't they doing it already?
NS

[paarmo]

I have been "centralised" 4 times over the years although not in the airline industry. The idea and the figures always look compelling on paper but it has never worked. After 3/4 years more money is being spent and the service has always suffered. People decline to take ownership of problems and solve them. As part of a large call centre, which albeit more skilled is what it will be, the controllers will be more inclined to pass the problem up the chain. Loyalty and the spirit of " give and take" suffers and people come to work as a job rather than to enjoy what they are doing.
The person whose idea it is at the beginning has increased his wages by clever presentation of his workload figures and his empire soon starts to expand. Targets,which make the head of operations look good, are set and they are rigidly enforced to the detriment of everything else.
Unless you are on the board of Peel,then I would start looking for accomodation in Liverpool because this appears to be a fait accompli .
Still look on the bright side they could have centralised it to Newcastle!!

[10 DME ARC]

NCL- Not a bad idea! Most of MME's controllers have gone there!!

[skyman771]

...As part of a large call centre, which albeit more skilled is what it will be, the controllers will be.............
Well I suppose the next move is for the whole of NATS to be moved off to the Indian sub continent.
Fortunately then the reality is that it will never happen though only for the simple reason!, in respect of safety then no one would be able to understand the controllers...........;)

[paarmo]

The Thomson load figures for February look absolutely brilliant. Lowest 90% and the highest 100%. There has been very little discounting so the yields must have been stupendous. I understand that Thomson are running the same schedule for next winter.Great shame they couldn't find summer slots this year but who knows for next and perhaps Thomas Cook may be looking at the figures enviously.

[GAXLN]

Parmo, very little discounting????? Egypt has had to be heavily discounted in order to sell since the troubles flared up.

This morning on Thomsons website: Coral Sea Resort All Inclusive from MME Sunday 10th April - Total price for two £1,094 - includes web saving of £720!!

From NCL, the same holiday departing on Thursday 7th April is £996.

On Sunday 3rd April, from MME same holiday is £960.

It'll probably be no different from other airports but it demonstrates how much discounting is taking place to sell Egypt holidays at present.

Of course it is selling at those prices but it won't be making money.

[paarmo]

The figures released are up to the end of February. They also include Tenerife and Alicante. Let's wait and see how they develop because after all everyone is in the same boat over the Red Sea resorts.

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Thomson Holidays have dropped Sharm flights for next winter probably due to the on going situation out in the region

Alicante and Tenerife are still bookable at the moment though

[mercurydancer]

There has been a thread on the Northern Echo about the standards at MME and I wish to add my comments and bring your attention to this awful airport.I would wish Peel airports would look to the comments posted on Northern Echo and take heed.

It would be a mild word to use when I say that the security/ border control staff can be "overzealous" with arrivees. The degree of questioning oversteps the mark for any other airport I know, including Heathrow. They may be bored but the aggression they show and the extent of questioning really needs to be investigated. I thought that it was a one-off and it was part of travelling but the number of arrivees being interviewed for more than an hour and with a degree of aggression is unacceptable by any standards I have seen in any airport.

Also, the security in the arrivals area is appalling. I picked someone up from the arrivals area and had to wait for some considerable time. In the arrivals area there was an aggressive drunk who was in no way controlled. He persisted in his behaviour because there was no visible presence of security or police staff. When I pointed out to the floor walker that I found the person's behaviour unacceptable and that I anticipated a conflict when I collected the arrivee from the airport, no staff reacted. In this case, I had to use considerable aggression of my own to get to get out of the terminal building.

Failure to control such behaviour and unprofessional passport control staff takes this pathetic airport into the standards of the worst airports in the world.

[MAN_Dispatcher]

The weekly train service got a mention in this BBC clip I just watched: BBC News - Missed the bus? The route that runs only four times year (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12945892)

The flash mob event is soon, isn't it?

[OMGitsDAVE]

I believe the Flash Mob was the 2nd April actually!

[GAXLN]

And a total of six people turned up according to the Northern Echo ......

[andrewmcharlton]

Mob:

1. A large disorderly crowd or throng.
2. The mass of common people; the populace.
3. An organized gang of criminals; a crime syndicate.
4. An indiscriminate or loosely associated group of persons or things:

Any of these work with just six folks????

[N707ZS]

All four with six geordies!!:O

[N707ZS]

The flash Mob might of worked better if they had advertised it say the week before and then possibly got on the train at Darlington and gotten off at the airport.

The station needs moving from its current possition to somewhere near the enterance road so that pax can get on the passing buses. Also the railway system could be upgraded to the system were you push a button if you want the train to stop, but who pays!

With the present station moved hangar four could be put back to aviation and possibly the skeleton of hangar five.

[johnnychips]

Good public transport links rely on a lot of inbound passengers visiting an area, and needing to get to a town or city. Most outbound passengers park their car, get a lift off their mate or take a shared taxi. It's cheaper, and much more convenient, than public transport.

I do travel to DSA by public transport if possible, but this is inconvenient for early departures or late arrivals. The passengers I have seen on public transport were a few odd Poles or Spaniards going to Sheffield. The specific 707 bus was withdrawn, just leaving the normal stopping X19 and 91 services.

So unless a load of foreign tourists start to visit MME I would not see improved public transport as viable or efficient.

[N707ZS]

For many years a visitor to Teesside airport could have questions answered at the information desk. Peel came up with the great idea of connecting an intercom to Liverpool airport and thus being able to sack the staff at Teesside.

In a recent conversation I herd a rumour that Teesside now supposidly pays Liverpool £80.000 for this service. Can anyone confirm or deny this!

[DTVAirport]

I see bmibaby are pulling out of Cardiff and Manchester according to their website - wonder if a former Director from our airport who is now at Cardiff had a hand in their departure??

Either way a rather sweet irony.

[N707ZS]

She is supposedly no longer there!

[NorthernCounties]

Is she going too BHD now? :8

[highwideandugly]

do we need to start loking over our shoulders with the closure of Plymouth? Not for one moment saying there is a comparison but dont like the name of ....Holdings down there...too close to Peel Holdings for my liking!!
how is it looking for the summer anyone know what extra holiday flights are due..usually an increse in traffic this time of year with the bucket and spade flights!
any other news?..not manypostings these days..

[Get me some traffic]

Looking at other airports which have had the same fate ,it appears that these development companies buy the an airport that is in the middle of two other viable ones , run the airport down over the years and slap charges on to stop people coming so they then can go to the powers to get it redeveloped into buisiness estates and housing... i feel from what i can gather from other sites that have had the same fate that the council has had a hand in the run down right from the start when these companies come in.......my opinion only....

From a post about the Plymouth closure. Uncomfortable?

[N707ZS]

Big problem for Peel is if they did close the airport they couldn't do much else with it. The whole area is full of empty offices, industrial units and half finished houseing estates.

Shame Peel had not bought Newcastle as there is supposidly a large amount of coal under there.

[uklad007]

Other than both have had a drop off in passengers i really dont think you can compare Plymouth City airport to MME.
For a start who in their right mind buys an airport and then creates an airline to serve that airport (being largely the sole customer) with the long term sole aim of closing down the airport - why not just buy the airport, not start an airline, and say well no one is interested in Plymouth lets close it down - it would have been much cheaper.
It didnt happen at Sheffield City nor at Coventry (buy airport, airport owners set up an airline)...and yes am aware its now sort of happening at Southend.

The idea was probably good in theory - large City, buy the airport and try to capitalize on the fact their is no competiton but it hasnt worked - plus the fact when they sold the airline new owners Eastern canned some routes.
They are operating with less than 100 passengers a day ive read, we arent quite that far down the line and reliant on one sole airline for all flights.

Therefore i am not seeing the comparison with Plymouth that people should assume MME will follow suit and be next to close given the situations are different (owners, passengers, past history, airlines, catchment area)

On a side note - whats the story with Eastern using ASW and NWI based aircraft in the last couple of days - tech J41 planes or are they being used on charters this week?

[DTVAirport]

I've often thought if Peel were serious about running MME as an airport they'd consider setting up their own airline, it's not like they don't have the funds, besides, the exact same business model would work at DSA too.

The strange Eastern movements are just temporary and are related to the Easter/Royal Wedding/Bank holidays.

[pug]

I've often thought if Peel were serious about running MME as an airport they'd consider setting up their own airline, it's not like they don't have the funds, besides, the exact same business model would work at DSA too.


I struggle to see how you can suggest that Peel might be interested in starting their own airline to operate from their own airports... Got to have a large fortune to make a small fortune in the airline industry and all that. Their expertise is in extracting maximum value from land, with minimum investment. Nothing more and nothing less.

[TSR2]

I've often thought if Peel were serious about running MME as an airport they'd consider setting up their own airline, it's not like they don't have the funds

Having the funds and having the expertise to run an airline are two different things.

[SWBKCB]

"Highwideandugly" and "Get me some traffic" not the only one to see the connection

Plymouth airport closure a sign of things to come - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/plymouth-airport-closure-a-sign-of-things-to-come-2276386.html)

[paarmo]

I don't know if anybody has noticed but Peel no longer run the airport or are even the sole owners. Despite the lack of news from the Canadians I am sure that they are working to turn it around as they are proven airport operators rather than property investors.
Peel still seem to have plenty of funds at their disposal as they have just bid almost £100 million for Pinewood studios so it would appear they are under no pressure to dispose of their holding in their airports division.
Bad news on BBC's Watchdog programme when they highlighted the ridiculous £6 charge to enter the airside of the airport. They equated it to paying to walk onto the platform to get a train, which is quite right.
It does take time to turn something like this airport which appears to have been run by inept management for the past 10 yrs into a going concern again. My only concern is the lack of information and good news stories being released to the press. Even in their darkest days the last management team made their disasters into positive spin.

[ncleflights]

Given the current economic climate and the fact we have a government intent on destroying the UK airline business I am afraid that the writing may well be on the wall for airports such as Durham Tees Valley and others.

Thankfully the fact that we are in the middle of a commercial construction and housebuilding decline may actually have kept DTV open bit longer. Imagine how much the land the aiport currently sits on would be worth if the property bubble had not burst.

[DTVAirport]

paarmo, rumour is VAS are only running LPL and Peel still have control over MME & DSA.

[paarmo]

DTV AIRPORT
Where on earth did you hear that rubbish?
Skyman
What a complete load of bollocks. Your post is so wrong that I will only give that comment rather than dismantle it line by line.

[spannatime]

I really can't see how DTV is still running. They must be hemorrhaging cash.
If Cobham decided to bail out then surely that would be the end for them? I do believe that if the poperty market had been in better condition then Peel would already have turned dtv into a housing estate.

It's a shame but I cant see it becoming a viable operation.

[Get me some traffic]

I wonder if the management have looked at the reduction in public transport in the region over the past few weeks? The last bus to Richmond from Darlington is now 2100. It is no longer possible to arrive on the last KLM and get public transport to Catterick garrison. A taxi costs an arm and a leg. The serviceman on a short break from overseas can no longer easily get to Catterick to see his family without great expense. Teesside is one of the most difficult airports in the UK to get to. If the access problem were sorted more business would be created. It is easier to get to Newcastle or Manchester than Teesside, especially if you do not have your own transport. Open up the station, get more public transport and provide more popular destinations and passenger figures will improve. Simples!!!

[onion]

I think its indicative of the whole focus of the North East and North as a whole in that a perfectly good airport such as MME can be allowed to shrink with no questions asked by the local people, media and MPs. It is reflected in Darlington FC in that the club has made Wembley yet from a town of 100,000+ they haven't even sold 9,000 tickets yet! There is very little publicity and a whole load of apathy! Its ridiculous how the whole region is so focused on Newcastle- this is not a get at Newcastle. Why why why? The local population, media and to a certain extent MPs should be ashamed of themselves on both accounts! Teesside and the whole of the southern end of the North East region should pull thier fingers out!

[andrewmcharlton]

Onion,

Let's just get some perspective.

Firstly, Darlo FC are a non-league club who according to Football365 have an average attendance of 1886 a game....it's not the Champions League so get it into some form of scale.

The harsh reality is that changing public transport, the name and anything else is a red herring compared to the reality of a commercial world. There are not the range of flights to where folks want to go at a price they want to pay. Blame whoever but unless that changes it's a slippery slope.

Buses to Richmond for squadies late at night, once a week trains are all utterly irrelevant unless the above mix / formula changes.

It would be great to see both NCL and DTV do well but one is struggling and trying to hold station and the other is in freefall. MP's won't change a thing, the airport has to offer the right mix at the right price and get the punters back in. Simples.

[onion]

Whats Champions League got to do with it? I was comparing the two with regard to the apathy in the Teesside area to the local community and everything that entails! Take the stadium sponsor, The Northern Echo, for instance. They have been very poor at promoting the Wembley apperance! It always seems that the good is always surpressed and the bad is brought to the fore!
I think I kept things in perspective! MME isn't exactly Champions League either!

[andrewmcharlton]

You miss the point entirely. A club that gets less than 2,000 sells 9,000 tickets. What do you aspire to? Transfer argument to airport and what do you expect is realistically going to happen?

[OMGitsDAVE]

On the positive side, Tees-Side Airport station now has 3 trains a week serving it, 2 of which on a Sunday connect to Darlington and Eaglescliffe, Stockton, Billingham, Seaton Carew, Hartlepool, Seaham, Sunderland, Heworth, Newcastle and Metro Centre!

[airhumberside]

Can only see 1 service each way on a Sunday in the new timetable, the Newcastle service you mention. Saturday stops seem to have been pulled

[OMGitsDAVE]

Still a Saturday call, 10.20 depart Darlington, arriving 10.28 at Tees-Side Airport.

[airhumberside]

The Northern Rail pdf timetable shows an 0955 and 1030 from Darlington on a Saturday, neither of which call at Tees-side Airport
http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/timetables/20110522/20110522-Northern-Timetable3.pdf

[OMGitsDAVE]

Thats from 22nd May, but for now a Saturday service still exists. Tried it in the booking engine?

[oldart]

If there is no transport from the station to the terminal, does it matter if the trains stop or not? I certainly would not like to walk that distance in good weather, let alone if it was raining.

[10 DME ARC]

I cannot belive you are talking up a three times a week train 'service':bored:

[N707ZS]

I see our Palma flight is a W rotation from Edinburgh utilising the based leased Astraeus 757 aircraft. I noticed last weeks flight was operated by their standby aircraft which has since moved on to cover a breakdown with the Newcastle aircraft.

Todays flight is running late due to some reason so are we in for a summer of breakdowns, long delays and subcharters?

[highwideandugly]

Yes I know ive usedf this title before,but just maybe the slippery slope just received an additional spray of the de icing fluid used at the airport last year which closed it down.

as widely reported it will be announced soon that Peel are selling up.

They see the future(and profits) in big bulk ports hence a bid for Forth.
So where does that leave us...shall we have a wip round on the thrice weekly train service?

Ideas anyone?

[N707ZS]

highwideandugly, presume you got that report from the DTVA site, if you notice the date it was March so old news.

[DTVAirport]

Yes the report that appeared on the DTV Movements website is over a year old and has now been removed.

[highwideandugly]

OK sorry guys should have read the full article..i apologise for the scaremongering!!.

should have read...DTV on life support !


summer schedules seem to be less than last year..anyone confirm? seen only a couple of extra turks and one Tom flight..what happenened to the jersey this year? not much difference in movements between winter and summer...this was always the traditionaal time to boost figures and revenue?

[david.crosby]

The jersey flight is due to start on 28-May-11 and finish 17-Sep-11. every saturday.
Atlantic holidays is hiring a A320 from Monarch to do one flight on the 25th July 2011 to Madeira.
Then you have thomson, Newmarket Holidays, Holidays4u offering holidays. DTVAirport will know more than me about the flights. but theres a few from Durham Tees Valley Airport Website

[oldart]

Are the passenger figures on the SOU route on the increase? Notice there was a Dash 8 on the service today, or are Eastern just short of A/C.

[mercurydancer]

Someone is going to do an MBA dissertation in how to run a small airport into a swamp. They would do well to look at how MME has been managed.

All of the advantages of having an airport close to Teesside have been overwhelmed. It is the most cynical and disagreeable measure to put up machines to pay for pax to exit the airport.

Public transport is now at the point where access to MME is now almost irrelevant. The trains pass that station regularly but negotiations dont appear to have been made to have them stop. This is for Peel - why didnt you negotiate?

MME also has the most obnoxious security and immigration staff. Due diligence is expected. Unfortunately the airport now has a reputation for it being staffed by overauthoritarian staff which makes it so unpleasant that it is preferable to travel to Manchester or London.

[N707ZS]

Yawn! NEXT!!

[sealink]

The staff probably have too much time on their hands as it sounds like MME is a ghost town. When a flight arrives they have more time to " process " arrivals and annoy them, although good manners cost nothing !!

[diggablue]

I recently collected some pre ordered/online currency from travelex at MME, the terminal was deserted, I called at the cashier window and waited for approx 10 mins, no sign off life, I had to ask at the information desk for the cashier to be paged,(at least I was first in the line;)) the cashier appeared 5 minutes later and she seemed very suprised to have a customer :uhoh: I was only collecting cash as there didn't seem to be any chance of catching a plane - it must be long days there, maybe staff don't see enough people and they have lost the skills of normal human interaction

[paarmo]

You have missed the point entirely Mercury. You have to pay to enter the airport and not to exit.
Since when has any British Service Industry listed pleasantness or human interaction in it's job description? That's for Americans and not us. At least with our surly staff we know where we stand. No smiling to your face and pins stuck in dolls when we have left.
At the end of the day customers spoil a good job.

[DTVAirport]

diggablue - you say you had to ask at the information desk? I thought this was axed not so long ago as part of the cost cutting?

[N707ZS]

If you check diggablue joined in 2006 and this is a first post perhaps the info desk was open in 2006.

On the subject of the info desk I heard the other day that Doncaster also pays Liverpool for information services a tidy £90.000!

[diggablue]

The help came from a person who was working in the area where the information desk used to be located, just near the klm check in, she may have been an employee of any company, the point was ! she was the only one around

I have used the airport since the early 70's and in the main transferred via LHR , I currently make about 10 return flights a year but sadly not from MME anymore as the service does not exist for me, I use MAN and NCL, I would prefer to use MME as its on my doorstep, however I can't see much change in the near future and this seems to be reinforced by the comments on this thread, and the reasons/issues seem to be understood and well documented by all contributors, its sad to see the demise of a local service

[mercurydancer]

Paarmo

My point exactly.

Ever considered if you are a problem or a solution?

[DTVAirport]

Myself and 11 other enthusiasts met with Airport Director Mike Morton today, he spent about an hour talking about the airport in its current form, its future direction and its past etc. The guy was very open and didn't appear to hold anything back, even cracking the odd joke. He told us a lot of stuff, some of which is confidential, and as such I cannot put on here.

After the talk, we were given a tour of ATC, the Fire Dept, the IFTC Burning Ground, before going down the full length of the runway, turning off at taxiway Delta, back past the Terminal and finishing up back at the main car park. It was a damn good day!

The top and bottom of the visit though was to look into the prospect of forming a Friends of Teesside Airport group, similar to existing groups at DSA/LPL, which I personally am 110% up for.

After what I heard today I feel confident that we'll still be talking about this airport on here for a good few decades yet. :ok:

[david.crosby]

Great to hear you had a great time at DTVA. I wish I could have came but I had a Exam at Uni.

Im glad you have seen DTVA has a future which I am very happy with.

Now lets hope we see our once great Airport back at the Top again.

[highwideandugly]

Good job the re were no aeroplanes using the runway(as usual)!!

so apart from the confidential stuff can you enlighten us mere mortals as to what was said??

[skyman771]

the confidential stuff
Reality is that whatever it can't be that confidential if disussed in open forum with "12 aviation enthusiasts". :E
I can however quite understand that in his position, then Mike Morton would not wish a summary of his views broadcast on Pprune.

[DTVAirport]

Just some of the things discussed were who they are currently in negotiations with, airlines or otherwise, who they've talked to in the past and who they are keeping an eye on for the future - if I were in Mike's position I'd consider that pretty confidential.

[donny-the-bull]

DTV, are you able to enlighten me if a Belfast route is being pursued?

[mattfalcus]

BBC Tees news had a piece on this morning saying the cargo being run by a specialised company using the KLM flights out of Durham Tees Valley is doing very well and they're looking for more cargo options.

[DTVAirport]

Air Salvage International, the aircraft part-out and recycling firm currently based at Kemble airfield, are setting up a branch at Durham Tees Valley. Work will initially be carried out on Stand 9, with Hangar 4 eventually being used by them (which I assume will mean making that area airside?)

Their first customer arrives tomorrow, an unknown Boeing 757.

[roverman]

Air Salvage - a great development, well done DTV!

The UK has too many airports, but not too many airfields. Whilst it is not viable for every airport to have its own individual service to XYZ, there is a need for airfields with certain facilties to be home to industries like aircraft maintenance, salvage, storage, painting, pilot/ATC training, niche cargo, off-shore support, business GA, and (dare I say it?) aircraft manufacture!!! Our larger airports simply cannot safeguard space for this sort of activity. I think we'll increasingly see maintenance and main deck cargo moving out of Heathrow, Gatwick and to some extent Manchester. Despite the costs, airlines will be incentivised to ferry aircraft to maintenance airports or forfeit capacity expansion at their main hubs. BA have Cardiff already, there will no doubt need to be others. This is the future for the smaller and more marginal airports which cannot sustain many scheduled passenger services yet have good runways and space for hangars. This sort of operation is likely to create more skilled jobs locally than will stag weekend flights to Prague and Benidorm. The future is good for airports like DTV, just stop looking for passengers.

[SWBKCB]

The normally reliable spotter site DTVMovements is reporting that it isn't ASI but a new start up called Sycamore Aviation.

Good luck to them.

[sean377]

Sycamore's 1st aircraft arrived today, I believe a 737-500 of soviet registration.

[mercurydancer]

DTV airport

Obviously Mr Morton has a captive audience.

I would support any movement to make DTV airport better. I have a vested interest in making the airport better as it is geographically close to my home, and I and my family travel very frequently.

As you are very well aware, I am a very strong critic of the airport for reasons I have detailed in my posts.

Would you or Mr Morton have any time for critics of the airport? If the answer is no, then the airport deserves to go down pan, and I will do my damnedest to put this fetid airport out of its misery. If yes, than Im listening.

Over to you. Can you turn enemies into friends?

[paarmo]

Little bit of a rant there Mercury. I'm not sure that this thread will make much of a difference to policy but if it makes you feel better then so be it.
As for the aircraft scrappage company I was suprised to see such a relatively young aircraft being scrapped. According to a Google search ( Other Search Engines Are Available ) it was built in 1990. I am sure I have flown on older aircraft which are British registered. It was in a Russian Loco livery on arrival ( Sky Express ) which makes it even more surprising. Just shows how marginal aircraft operating is nowadays.
Good news for the airport if the business takes off ( no pun intended but all applause welcome.)

[OMGitsDAVE]

Passenger figures are also looking pretty good.

Passenger Figures (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/PAX_figs.htm)
Up at least 5% every month so far, significant ups in Jan, Feb and March.

[TSR2]

Passenger Figures May 2011

Total Pax 16,318 Down 21.7% on May 2010

Rolling Year 232, 800 Down 5% on previous year

[mercurydancer]

paarmo,

A rant it is, but a valid one. You really didnt answer my question, but I really didnt expect an answer. I do not think you are in a position to give one.

My comments may not affect policy. I can live with that. Your comments do reinforce my view that this airport is not a facility that is worth the effort to improve.

Mr Richmond may not give a damn about DTV, but consumer (although I hate that word) pressure is remarkably effective.

[highwideandugly]

21% down for the first summer month this can be only described as horrendous?

i make that between 250-300departing passengers per day?

these figure are before the nervous fliers see modern jet aircrat being dismantled in front of their very eyes!!

bad move me thinks...good for the spotter..not good for the customer!!:=

[DTVAirport]

The aircraft are not being dismantled in view of the general public, rumour has it the first aircraft will move landside from it's current position on stand 9 at some point tomorrow - only a rumour though.

Also, a contributing factor is that last years May figures include five Boeing 767 trooping flights and four Jet2.com diversions. Take those out of the equation and fair enough we'd probably still be down, but not by anywhere near as much.

[Mr.Bloggs]

MME is likely to close.

[N707ZS]

More Yawn.
Passengers arn't the B all and end all of aviation.

Scrap yard what's the problem its making money on a hangar rent parking money and hopefully jobs. For years now you have been lucky enough to see a burning trident as you line up for take off so a plane without engines on the apron isn't going to make much difference. The scrapping area is as far as I know going to be outside hangar 4.

[highwideandugly]

Mr.Bloggs you seem pretty definate about MME closing..pray tell..what do you know/think/assume?

N707ZS you are right passengers are not the be all and end all..good job as we have non!

However where is the airport going to make money? dismantling aircraft? think not.That market is pretty much tied up and with ex.military bases coming on stream and companies ready to develop them then as usual..nothing much there for MME.

Freight? same applies

light aircarft? not with fuel prices as they are..have you not noticed the drop in those movements around the area?

maintenance? a slim possibility as airlines move out of Heathrow /gatwick etc due space constraints.

Any other straws out there to grab?

[DTVAirport]

Mr.Bloggs, I too would like to know if you're basing that comment on something you know that the rest of us don't, or was it just an foolish and wreckless comment?

[lplsprog]

Where's Mr. Bloggs from-Wythenshawe, where's Manchester airport- Wythenshawe need I say more!

[pwalhx]

Mr Bloggs should say more to reinforce his argument.

Lplsprog why should it be of consequence to Manchester Airport I doubt MAG consider Teeside as competition any more than Liverpool airport see Teeseide as competition as it currently stands, even if Teeside were to expand again the effect on both airports would not be significant, so his location is irrelevant that is merely mischief making, as is probably Mr. Bloggs post.

No one wants to see MME close however as has been said one wonders where the revenue will come from.

[bad bear]

I would guess that even without Passenger flights the airport could continue. Shedding the costs of the terminal, security and full ATC would still leave a viable business. If KLM were to pull out we might see just that.
bb

[highwideandugly]

Bad bear your optimism is creditable!! just how, without,passengers,ATC and secutrity would it be a viable business?

Why not take the runway,aircraft and staff away...now that could be a goer!!:ugh:

[bad bear]

highwideandugly, Carlisle and Coventry are still in business and both had a few passengers at one time. It would take more than the loss of a few passenger flights to see the place turned into a housing estate. I would imagine that if passenger numbers drop off it would not be cost effective to limp along with only the odd Jetstream and harsh decisions would be made, but the airport will almost certainly survive in some form. Do you think MME would close completely if passenger flights ended?

bb

[skyman771]

Do you need pax flights to be known as an "airport" as presumably oposed to an "airfield" ?.
One hopes we never get down to the level of "DTV airfield" though there would then presumably be no commercial reason why one couldn't then drop the DTV in favour of Teesside/MME & start all over again ;)

[mercurydancer]

Ive not quite worked out who the Peel company PR guys are on this site, and I sympathise with their task, not that they are listening anyway. Nice try with the flash mob. Pity no trains stop there. Might have been a few more if the train actually stopped, but it doesnt very often. Once a week IIRC. The train does go to Manchester airport. Regularly. Once an hour peak times. This makes a huge difference. If I book a flight, I dont want to find that the hardest part of my journey is to the airport. With MME public transport is nonexistent, and taxis are the only alternative, if there are any available, which there arent often, and its a 25 to 35 quid touch to get to Middlesbrough or Stockton. I know every kilo of my luggage and if I can spare myself some weightlifting by taking the train right past MME to Manchester then I will do so. As the cheapest return ticket from Manchester Airport I have found, from Thornaby, is 45 quid its economic to get the train over the dreary pennines. Im not even going to mention how organised Manchester airport is, and I dont have to pay a freakin machine money to be let out of the freakin airport. And I can get something to eat and drink in Manchester. I dont consider vending machines as anything more than last ditch survival measures, which is the main source of hydration and nutrition at MME. Especially as the last time I was in MME the machine was almost empty and when I put money in, the machine didnt actually work. I know this isnt MME problem, as its an outsourced provider, but it adds to the whole unpleasantness.

The machines to pay to exit MME was a wonderful scheme. An airport which has very little to encourage people to go there adds an airport tax in possibly the most offensive way possible. Nice one.

One day I will be arrested for baring my backside at MME as the train passes by from Manchester without stopping.


Not a rant, but possibly a howl, and ive not repeated my other dislikes about this airport, but if I can advise others from using this airport, I will, and tenaciously so, until the airport either dies or improves.

[uklad007]

:ugh:I do find people who post comments on wishing the airport would close, becoming mystic meg and predicting its demise or trying to actively discourage people to stop using the place as odd. What harm does the airport do to anyone if it flies 1mn passengers per year or 100K passengers per year. That airport to some people is a place of employment - if someone in your family relied on the income it brings in I think you would feel very different.

I dont like marmite - do i wish it to stop being produced, no because people work on that production line - do i take offence that its sold in supermarkets - no because why should i care i just dont buy it.. so if you dont like it just dont use it..

The airport/airfield has been around for years now - so why should people take offence by its presence or wish its closure now just because in the current market its handling few flights and passengers. Also i cant see what difference it makes if its passengers, freight, private flights or airline scrappage going on - in an area where there are few jobs and declining inward investment - any business in the area is good.

Alternatives everyone talks about is a big housing estate - then everyone will complain that the new big huge housing development is driving down their house price due to overcapacity in the market..

Seriously people should not let the state of the airport get to them - maybe take a holiday instead - flights to Spain, Turkey, Bulgaria or Jersey on your doorstep - or you can drive x Miles north, south or west and fly from somewhere else if flying from there offends too much or your destination isnt available.

[DTVAirport]

On a similar note, I remember at our peak when we had just short of a million pax per year, everyone on here and other sites still said this wasn't enough, the airport was bad and in danger of closure, one of the quietest in the country etc etc.

One million passengers per year is not a lot to ask for but the point is, let's say DTVA achieved, or even exceeded this figure, the posts on this thread would still read the same as they do now.

[paarmo]

The Teesside Airport is closing argument comes up every 6 weeks as regularly as clockwork and the reasons it is not closing in the short to medium term have been shown to be sensible and well researched on every occasion. In the long term 10+ years then who knows where anyone will be then.
If anyone has any scintilla of proof that the airport is closing then put up or shut up.
After having a very good winter programme last year and anticipating another good one for this year ( Sharm excepted for obvious reasons ) Thomsons are having a serious look at expanding their operations for next summer. Thomas Cook are also watching their rivals and have the situation under review.
As for Locos , who needs the hassle they generate for very little extra business for the airport concessions .

[mercurydancer]

UKlad

I dont like marmite either, but I sure put more thought into choosing an airport and flights than I do for grocery shopping. If I dont like the taste of marmite then thats just about the end of the discussion. There are limited options. Unfortunately for airports its different, way beyond a simplistic comparison. I feel free to describe why DTV is a horrible airport to transport through, and I wont repeat them, but the reasons as to why it is so horrible are far more than just a like/dont like comparison.

I am well aware of the economic value of the airport, but its not a charity. It has to earn its keep by getting passengers to use the airport. It is failing in that task. The airport is not worth its salt if its expensive to get to, with very limited public transport links and just survival level facilities for passengers and visitors. I too am going through harsh economic times, but I choose to spend my money where I get best value, and that DTV is not high on the list of value for money.

In these harsh economic times, it is simply easier and cheaper to go to Manchester.

DTV, are you really serious in what you say? Ive never seen such an example of a pitiful and self defeating comment. Do you really mean that no matter how many passengers DTV process, it will result in no improvement? If there is no improvement then the favourable comments simply wont happen.

[uklad007]

I sort of see your point but then again can't think that a taxi/drive to DTV would be more difficult that getting to the other side of the country however will respect that is personal choice. Also I can't see why it's so horrendous, you turn up, check in wander a short distance to the gate and get on. You land back, pick up your bag and your off home relatively quickly - I find smaller airports easy to use. Also I have been in much bigger airports around the world with little or no more to do considering the number of pax there - it just takes me longer to work out there is little there as it's bigger that's all. Like I say personal choice. Also agree it's not a charity but I think there are many other airports also making losses around the world along with airlines too - if they all shut up shop and call it a day as they are not a charity that would not be good either. Times are hard, optimism is best and doesn't cost me anything. Hopefully the prediction by people of it's closure does not come true - I am flying in and out of MME later in the year.

[oldart]

Mercurydancer

Since when has the Manchester Airport train gone past MME?
I thought the nearest stop was Yarm.

[mercurydancer]

Oldart

The train goes from Saltburn to Darlington calling at Middlesbrough and Thornaby (where I usually catch it) and then to darlo, and across the pennines to Manchester airport. Apart from the very rare train which stops at MME which is once a week as I understand it, the hourly trains to Manchester just roll through the MME station without stopping.

UKlad, It is cheaper to go to Manchester in many cases than to use MME despite the distance.

As you say, the bare essentials are checking in , security and boarding. With MME thats all you get. I too have been to all sorts of airports all around the world, and MME is about as basic as things get. I dont want a foot massage in the first class lounge but any airport which has vending machines as the staple supplier of essentials is pretty dire.

I have posted about the security in MME and wont rag on about it, but its certainly not complimentary. I will repeat two points. The arrivals lounge security is woeful as the last time I picked someone up from there there was an aggressive drunk who no one did anything about. I repeatedly requested a security presence as that I felt intimidated by the drunk but nothing happened. The other thing is that the immigration control staff take their duties so seriously that to reduce a passenger to tears seems to be an achievement.

[OMGitsDAVE]

That's slightly wrong Mercury!

NORTHERN RAIL operate a Darlington - Saltburn half-hourly service coasting through Teesside Airport Station, and TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS operate Middlesbrough - Manchester Airport hourly, which goes nowhere near DTV. This operates to Eaglescliffe (without stopping there) then turns off towards Yarm instead of towards Darlington, where DTV is.

GRAND CENTRAL operate from Sunderland - London KX via Hartlepool, Eaglescliffe, Northallerton, Thirsk & York, again operating via Yarm although not stopping.

NORTHERN RAIL operate a Sunday-only Darlington - Metrocentre which does stop at Teesside Airport.

[skyman771]

Surely this ongoing debate as to alternate public transport to Teesside, & that which provides direct access to DTV has by now run its course. Every land based form of transport around & out of the area appears to have been covered in some detail. Accepted that DTV has had its day in the limelight, albeit as the subject of a national joke as to its lamentable rail service, but surely this does not have to keep being used to justify other rather tenuous comments. My view is that it is now all becoming a rather incestuous circle in that ground transportation will only be improved by passenger demand, & without these links & the airlines/services then there is insufficient demand. Bad management initiated the spiral downwards, aggressive management seeking alternate forms of revenue seem to be the way forward as to consolidating and building upon what remains.
Throw away comments recently posted such as As for Locos , who needs the hassle they generate for very little extra business for the airport concessions . illustrate all that is wrong in the thought process in addressing the "bigger picture". One hopes that this sentiment is not that of the current airport management.

[paarmo]

Skyman,look at the Operators using the airport today and then look at the ones who have promised the earth and cut and run at the first setback. KLM, Eastern and Thomson are still here. BMI, Ryanair,Wizz and Globespan are not.
Point proven I think.

[tony jarrett]

tell you what guys, forget about debating the airport for a while and support the aircraft that is dismantled and waiting to go to the museum with a donation, the last Trident 1c complete G-ARPO, without DTVA it would of gone along time ago. So come on guys show why we like aircraft..
www.savethetrident.org (http://www.savethetrident.org) .

[pug]

look at the ones who have promised the earth and cut and run

:D:}:D:}:D:ugh:

[jabird]

aggressive management seeking alternate forms of revenue seem to be the way forward as to consolidating and building upon what remains.

Skyman, good point! Even @BHX, which has excellent public transport, 80% of people arrive by car. The most important thing an airport should do re:transit is ensure that it can, at least, operate a bus service to the nearest major railhead.

Beyond that, anything else is just PR guff - until an airport is constrained by a S106 agreement to provide more public transport, why would mgt want to subsidise more buses or a 'metro' 15 mins walk away, when one of the biggest revenue sources is parking?

I hope MME gets more routes soon - something I've never really understood. Here we have BHX v EMA / CVT debates, but we understand CVT currently lacks the infrastructure and has potential runway issues with 737-800s.

The North East should be big enough to support to airports with base operations - of course these will be loco not network carrier but they should still earn the airports enough to be viable. So why does NCL have U2, FR, BE, LS etc - but MME has next to nothing? Surely FR at least are 'ripe' for poaching from NCL?

[Hipennine]

"The North East should be big enough to support to airports with base operations - of course these will be loco not network carrier but they should still earn the airports enough to be viable. So why does NCL have U2, FR, BE, LS etc - but MME has next to nothing? Surely FR at least are 'ripe' for poaching from NCL"

Why ?

Northumberland, Durham and N.Yorks are the most rural counties in England. The area may be large, but the population density isn't. Then consider that the Tyne and Wear Conurbation has a popualtion of circa 2.5m vs circa 600k for Tees Valley. Tees valley industry profile is still dominated by large scale process industries (ie overall low average wages), whereas T&W has a much higher proportion of job posts requiring business travel, and higher average income generally for discretionary spending on travel. Business travel demand ex MME to europe and beyond is pretty much covered by KLM capacity. U2 are struggling at NCL and are strategically chasing the business market as much as leisure, so are unlikely to be interested in MME. FR has tried and given up. That really only leaves LS that haven't tried MME, and they are hardly likely to set up services that will partially be in competition with an Ok base at NCL and with fortress Leeds.

[jabird]

Hipennine,

Many thanks for some interesting analysis - but when I was referring to size, I did mean population, not area :) Sheep don't fly, except when they are dead!

I was generally referring to leisure routes - I accept that NCL is much closer to the biz pop, not to mention the fact it is attached to the Metro for pax from a little further afield. Maybe the Solent region is a fairer comparison - with BOH essentially being the leisure apt - although disposable incomes there are obviously higher. Despite this, everyone needs a holiday and this market is driven by price first, then convenience. Why have FR failed so badly? MME ought to be their natural kind of airport. LS have set up at practically every other airport north of BHX - including BLK, so why not MME?

I can only suspect that mgmt are still attached to some mythological value of their product - but even this doesn't add up as Peel have enjoyed great success with locos @LPL.

[Hipennine]

Hi Jabird,

Not sure that the Solent analogy is applicable (and putting aside that net disposable income per head in the area is probably rather more than Tees Valley). SOU is a performance restricted field so if the FR's want to operate fully loaded 738s in and out of the region, BOH is the only option. SOU is also rather restricted in Apron space and gate size, which again pushes the larger acraft locos to BOH. If SOU had a longer runway and larger terminal development space, I'm sure that BOH would look more like MME

[jabird]

Hipennine,

Yes I take your point - SOU & BOH are complimentary in certain ways. I keep on thinking of other comparisons - BHD (also restricted) & BFS - but neither has 'bottomed out' - so maybe GLA & PIK? Perhaps PIK makes up for its distance from city centre by having a rail link with two trains an hour instead of 2 each week!

But seriously, I refer you back to FR. MOL has repeatedly said that the airport charges are the biggest driver of where they fly - more so than whether or not there is any latent demand between the two points (that is from the horse's mouth!).

So are Peel not as desparate as Infrail? Not yet? Or better to have x pax paying full handling fee and development charge than 2x pax paying pennies?

How big are the car parks @ MME?

[Hipennine]

I agree that perceptually, charging the individual punter a fee to get into or escape from the airport is a management seemingly determined to actively discourage passenger use. I suppose because it's done at YVR (and certainly used to be done at Montreal), the Canadian owners think that it's an acceptable practice, but that's in a country where the price you see in a restaurant doesn't include the tax, nor the service charge (this latter can appear on bills now as a standard 17%). There again you could argue that they are only emulating some of the FR pricing practices, so FR should be happy to look at a business with a similar strategyhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

More seriously if MOL has said that, believe it, and unless FR can bring daily 100's of spending pax through a terminal (therefore allowing concessions rents to rise etc), which would only be achieved by having several based aircraft flying multiple routes and frequencies, what is the point in the airport offering cheap prices for a couple of flights per day, which need a peak of resource requirement to service (ie expensive to provide) ?

Oh, and don't forget that FR are cutting back at PIK, and that PIK has the advantage that FR are committed there because of the maintenance facility, which means their acraft have to fly there anyway.

[jabird]

Hp,

In my experience the Caribbean airports are the biggest offenders for stealth charging, but that is a government tax not a usage fee (even though govt & airport are one & same). Of course this is especially counter-productive as these are governments which spend a fortune marketing themselves abroad, and then whinge that UK APD is hurting them! And that is on top of the $20 fee for a 'local' driving licence!

But I digress - I'm much better versed on US airport funding than their northern neigbours but iirc tax was included in the price. I have been to Canada twice but never used their airports, so please do correct my ignorance here!

What has this got to do with MME? My guess is that they see it done at NOC, NQY & BLK as their 'inspiration' - but I don't think NQY or NOC are ever going to seriously base a/c?

[Hipennine]

I understand that all of Peel Airports incl MME are now owned 65% and operated by a Canadian airport operating company (VAS, which is jointly owned by Vancouver Airport Authority and Citi Infrastructure Investors, operates 16 airports around the world.), and the introduction of the development tax is since that acquisition took place. Vancouver airport collects a Development tax on departure, which has to be paid at a cash desk before departure, as was the case at Montreal the last time I was there (all flights on BA). I was making the point that this is possibly a more acceptable practice in Canada, especially as displayed prices for most things need taxes adding (which vary from province to province), and a service charge is often expected to be paid on top. so perhaps the MME owners mistakenly believe that such practices are normal and acceptable in Europe.

note re Carribean reference - VAS also own Nassau.

[holgate]

Just thought i would give my own experience of MME .
Travelled on the morning KLM on a saturday,.....only 25 pax on a fokker 100.
Check in staff friendly and proffesional,....bag was picked for a search,so off to security,....once again very proffesional and courteous,....paid my £6,....through the scanner,no problems.......KLM crew were great too.
After 8 days abroad back on the lunchtime KLM,....fokker 70.....only a few empty seats so a good load....arrived ontime....through passport control,....again courteous and a thank you from the agent......backs on belt in 5 mins,....paid parking which was £63....not bad if you consider what other airports and rail stations charge!.....home in 15 mins down the A66.
The only downside was the the state of the terminal airside......reminded me of a soviet-era airport......half the place was in darkness,....plywood nailed to some parts of the walls,....not a very good first impression.
So overall was pleased,.....staff great,easy to get to and from,good road links,parking good value,good service from KLM......JUST MODERNISE THE TERMINAL!

Thanx
Holgate.

[jabird]

Hp - thanks for the updates, I used to be ontop of all this stuff, but have been off the ball for most of the last 3 years due to illness! So I had understood Peel to be same group that owns(/ed) much of Trafford Estate in MAN, including the shopping ctr.

I am well aware of the practice of sales-tax markup, having previously operated a door to door sales outfit in suburbs of BOS & DEN! Just wasn't aware of the Canadians playing same tricks.

Truth is that we have become more used to extras being added on as this was pioneered by the loco airline industry, but also because it is common for websites to add huhge extras for shipping. I think the 'licence' to charge a cash fee on departure was pioneered some years back @NOC, then it seeped across the Irish Sea - but your assertion that it comes from a directive the other side of the Atlantic might well be true too.

All I can say is that any kind of cash fee - ontop of extras that can be weighed up at the click of a mouse - is a serious deterrent, not to mention an accounting hassle for biz pax.

Holgate, modernisation means investment which means an investor looking for ROI. However good KLM may be @MME (and my experience of them @BHX is good too), they will never put enough bums on seats to pay for new facilities. Only a loco with based frames can do that. The question is - are there any airlines left out there to come (back) to MME in a big enough way?

[paarmo]

Here we go again!
Call to rename Durham Tees Valley Airport - Local News - News - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2011/06/28/call-to-rename-durham-tees-valley-airport-84229-28954254/)

[JKKne]

I'm for this.

By changing the name back to Teesside will result in easyjet, ryanair, southwestern, emirates, thomson, thomascook and probably BA setting up bases.

The name change will also vastly improve the airports facilities and catchment area. Local people will now rush to the airport after having realised its not in Durham but actually just over there.

Infact, it could be the greatest thing in the world to happen.

(ahem)

[Get me some traffic]

Stable door....... horse bolted?

[OMGitsDAVE]

Just saw this on BBC;

BBC News - New liquids scanner tested at UK airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13956561)

A new machine which tests liquids without them having to be opened, is being tested at Durham Tees Valley airport.

In 2013, a European ban on taking liquids onto planes is expected to be relaxed.

The BBC's Transport Correspondent Richard Scott has been to the airport to see one of the machines in action.

[mattfalcus]

What!? Nobody's mentioned Mike Morton's departure yet?

Durham Tees Valley Airport boss quits (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9141918.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_boss_quits/)

[david.crosby]

It's a sad day. I just the airport can get someone in with a bit more umph and makes the airport better

[TSR2]

Until the new Airport Director is in post, the team at the airport supported by the parent company Peel Airports, will continue to ensure that it is business as usual during the summer period."

Not much ambition there then.

[Bartrams]

January 2010 since my last posting and thought I would pay a visit to PPrune to see how our local airport is being reported and developing.Full of expectation and enthusiasm I have looked through the threads..


Oh dear...see you in a year!!(possibly)

[skyman771]

Read the article & clearly something not right ! It's open to conjecture as to whether Mike didn't get on with Peel or vice versa. One presumes that coming into Peel late on in his career didn't help, - possibly someone got upset about the Passenger Facility Fee...:E
Brief C.V. -Mike was once a trained mining engineer. However, due to the government policy of some 20 years ago, that industry was run down. Eventually, despite achieving his ambition of running his own colliery, he had to change direction. His aviation career began in 1996 when he joined BA World Cargo before moving on to work for Servisair and Coventry Airport. He joined the Peel Airports Group as the Director of Robin Hood Doncaster Airport in 2008 - a position he still holds - and added Director, Durham Tees Valley Airport (DTVA), to his job titles in June 2010.
So the obvious question, is Mike still with Peel down at Doncaster ? On another note the three replies posted to the article read like a repetition of comments regularly aired on this thread, hmmmmmm!

[DTVAirport]

No Mike's not at DSA either, he's gone completely. His Liverpool counterpart has gone as well - I believe they're getting rid of what they consider to be an unnecessary level of management and as such they won't be replaced and one guy will oversee all three facilities.

Ten firefighters have also been made redundant.

[Helen49]

Slight thread drift I know, but which director has gone from LPL and which airport has lost the firefighters?

H49

[idlejack]

From this mornings Yorkshire Post

Airport chief leaving ‘to pursue new challenges’

Published on Saturday 16 July 2011 06:00


AIRPORT director Mike Morton has announced he has left Doncaster’s Robin Hood Airport to “pursue new challenges.”

A spokesman for Peel Airports, which runs the airport at Finningley, said: “Mike has been with Peel Airports since 2008 and his passion for the business has been apparent to all those he has met during his time at the Airport.
“Mike is looking forward to his next challenge and will be well remembered by all who have had the pleasure of working with him over the years. The airport company wish him every success for the future.
“The process has begun to find a new airport director and, given the significance of the role and importance of the airport to the region, Peel Airports will be looking to find a suitable replacement as soon as possible.
“An announcement regarding Mike’s successor will be made in due course.”
They added that it would be “business as usual” during the busy summer period.

[shaftr1]

It's the Fire fighters at DTV that have been made redundant. I feel sorry for them. All because the management have been useless.:sad::sad:

[N707ZS]

The big question here is, if they are making ten fire fighters redundant are they reduceing the fire category of the airport thus restricting the availability to larger jets? Might this be why we haven't seen any MOD flights for some time now.

[10 DME ARC]

'Fire fighters at DTV that have been made redundant' And possibly some ATCO's as well????:uhoh:

[davidjohnson6]

Death by a thousand cuts ?

[highwideandugly]

Not 100% sure how long they haver been pulling the ropes/threads/hang mans noose at TEESSIDE but given that they have had more than a little time to sort out ongoing problems..to coin a phrase.."What have VAS ever done for us" !!

Now we had irrigation,we had roads(just) and we had a dedicated staff..if anything they have had a less positive impact than any other owner.

Rather than start a campaign to change the name..how about a campaign to get rid of these 'foreign johnies' !!

Now that redundencies are hitting the core of the airport(AFS) then how can we ever recover ?

Im going to the pub!!