DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[paarmo]

Looking at Vancouver's CV it would appear that they are sensitive to local opinion ( Unlike Peel ) The Evening Gazette ran a pole recntly on local naming and Teesside Airport came out on top alongside Teesside area status etc. Perhaps Vancouver may be rebranding as well as everything else they are surely about to do in the near future.
Shame about losing the Onur flights so soon into their tenure. Mind you even Peel can't be blamed for that.

[highwideandugly]

Too late- Get me some traffic ....the damage has been done.
What do we do..start again?? at what cost?

Me thinks that VAS will be taking a long hard look at their investment and the DTV arm will eventually be surplus to requirements.

Nice little earner to the local councils,plenty of land etc.Lets face it..no body really wants to fly from DTV/MME/Goosepool.Its in the wrong place at the wrong time.Why was it not the major Civil airport back in the sixties.Because the RAF saw a niche and jumped at it earlier.
Its got one great thing going for it...the staff...and unfortunately..that doesnt seem to matter these days.

[onion]

Highwideandugly to say no one wants to fly from MME is just silly! The problem is that economics dictate at the moment that people fly from NCL or LBA due to economies of scale! Also it is obvious that the name change has never worked and apart from a few the damage as you put it hasn't been done as nowhere knows MME as Durham Tees Valley! I ve come across it too in Seattle when checking in. Over there you don't want to make mistakes either as they are jumpy! When I said also known as Teesside everything was all right! You try telling a gun wielding American that there is such a place as Durham Tees Valley when they are say no such place exists! Its obvious that the name change never worked. VAS if you are going to spend money on something to start with look no further than the name!

[paarmo]

Dear highwide,
I really think you should be more positive on Teesside's future. I bet you were one of the ones who claimed that England would have no chance of winning the World Cup.
The future of Teesside Airport can only go one of two ways. The first is an airport, the second is scrubland.
There is no chance of building houses on the site. There is no demand. There is no planning permission. There are no services sufficient to support what would be a new town. It is in the wrong place as you keep telling us. Everything is against it.
To support warehousing and or light industrial use it needs a hub and that hub is the airport.
Ergo no airport = no industrial use and being in the wrong position = no housing development. It's the airport or nothing.
Teesside Airport of course.

[OMGitsDAVE]

Facebook & Twitter pages now added to the site.
Perhaps a little more advertising is getting done? Despite it being internet-based, and free...

Facebook: Durham Tees Valley Airport | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Durham-Tees-Valley-Airport/122032767827268?v=wall)

Twitter: Durham Airport (DurhamTVAirport) on Twitter (http://twitter.com/durhamtvairport)

Nice to see Live Arrivals & Departures on the Fbook Page!

[JKKne]

Yes, Aberdeen has never had so much coverage on Facebook before :E

[OMGitsDAVE]

Does anyone know about any rise/fall in figures the past few months?

- A lot of Eastern's flights seem to arrive quite early, such as today;
T3585 from Aberdeen arrived 20 minutes ahead of schedule...
Is this due to a lot of buffer time?

[TSR2]

June passenger numbers 26,403 down 11.5% in June 2009.
Rolling Year numbers 241,710 down 49.3% on same period last year.

[paarmo]

With the loss of the Onur flights things are going to get worse in the short term before a recovery.The winter flight programme is a vast improvement on anything ever attempted at the airport and Thomson have to be congratulated on their vision. All I hope is that they will make a profit on their investment.

[highwideandugly]

Took a trip up to Newcastle for the anniversary shin dig. Amazing to see all those people and more so all those aeroplanes!! it shows how far we have fallen behind.Your optimism is admirable Paarmo but there are so many things wrong with DTV,its image and direction for two that I dont think we will ever catch up?
The Thomson programme is erased by the loss of Dublin (again!!) we really are in the same position we were 20 years ago.BTW when is our 50th anniversary??
Final thought...Newcastle in two aircraft movements yesterday carried more passengers than we carry in total on a normal summers day!! Phew !!

[paarmo]

No one is saying that Teesside will ever overtake NCL in total passenger throughput. It would be unrealistic to say that. What we are saying is that Teesside can have a place in aviation albeit a fairly modest one. It will survive and passenger numbers will recover and probably overtake previous numbers in years to come. There is no other use for this piece of land and if there had been I doubt that Peel would have sold what appears to be a controlling interest to VAS.
VAS are already making plans and I would suggest that an announcement will be made in the near future. What those plans are I have no idea but I do hope that they speak to local people rather than just special interest groups and local politicians.
P.S Depending on what you mean by the anniversary it was bought by local councils in 1963. Passenger flights did not start until sometime later so 3 years at least before 50yrs and 28 before NCL's 75yrs so we have time yet. Who knows they may find old mine workings under NCL and have to close it.

[Rhayader]

What also does not help MME is the vastly improved links to other airports. Direct trains from Middlesborough and Darlington to MAN, direct to London from Hartlepool and Eaglescliffe via Yarm and Northallerton. NCL is less than an hour away and a shared taxi can be had for little more than a tenner a head. Peoples personal mobility has improved to such an extent that they are prepared to travel further and for longer to get the flight they want. The traditional markets for MME are drying up as people demand other destinations rather than the Spanish Costas and similar mainstays of MME traffic.

It makes depressing reading because I like MME as an airport and have flown from there many times, mostly the old BD Viscounts and later DC9s to LHR.

:uhoh:

[OMGitsDAVE]

:ugh: Yet again I agree with Paarmo. MME could have really jumped on the idea of the Tall Ships, as Grand Central are putting on extra services to Darlington direct from Hartlepool, and these could quite easily of stopped at MME. Albeit they may be late trains, but even so - every little helps.

There has been a certain lack of advertising, and that is really what we need. We also need some kind of transport interchange there - metro or not. Bus, train? Anything!

[MME4eva]

Even though the loss of DUb after such a short space of time is a huge blow given it seemed to fit what MME offered perfectly, the new TOM winter programme will easily cover for this.

According to May passenger figures, EI carried 1171 pax MME-DUB but (even with an average 150 pax per flight) the combined weekly flights to Alicante, Sharm and Tenerife will easily dwarf this.

We are still in a much better position than HUY who can only offer AMS and ABZ during winter.

Any news as to if EI/RE are planning on a return for Summer 2011?

[mmeman]

regaring the Dublin flights, Ryanair have been offering 'no tax' flights from NCL to DUB meaning £10 single fares. If anyone does their homework and checks both Ryanair and Aer Lingus websites for prices they will see a huge difference and I suspect choose the Ryanair flights. This Friday you can get flights with Ryanair for £65 from NCL and it is £105 from Durham with Aer Lingus.

I see though that the Ryanair flights to Alicante have a LF of about 86% for June. That is with an awful time of a 6.30am departure from Alicante which must put people off flying with Ryanair from Durham. I hope the airport are pointing this out to Ryanair and saying think what LF we could have if aircraft are based at Durham- i. e with better flight times. (I know the usual comments about yield apply, but if you are not making money on flights 86% full then surely there is something wrong?)

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus flights to Dublin will end on October 30.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

I'll be staying at one of the airport hotels on 7th August prior to doing the Darlo 10K the day after, not going to have any noisy aircraft waking me up, early, late or at all am I?

[sealink]

I used to work for BD at MME about 12 years ago. Covered shifts there as overtime flying in from another base. loved the place especially staying at the George hotel. Very fond memories.

[andrewmcharlton]

As someone who's been targetted with corporate sponsorship during the tall ship's I have to say the organisers have over priced it beyond belief and their marketing is poor at best to the business world. If MME was pinning it's hopes on the ships helping traffic they haven't much hope.

[OMGitsDAVE]

There's nothing to overprice andrew, its a free event...

[andrewmcharlton]

You misunderstand. Corporate Sponsorship is grossly overpriced and without that they struggle to pay for the media/PR/advertising etc which draws the punters.

The prices quoted to me for various packages are seriously ludicrous and they are struggling for takers.

[paarmo]

I see Victor's in the news again. Seems like he won't be doing any international flying in the next few months. Keeps the airport in the news though
Failed airline boss denies allegations (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8308547.Failed_airline_boss_denies_allegations/)

[deltahotel9]

Classic journo errors there too 'a fleet of 747s' that would have been something to see, not sure they would have been very full though.

[OMGitsDAVE]

As the EZY base at Doncaster is closed & the winding down of a base at Newcastle is inevitable, does MME stand a chance?

[Rhayader]

I cant see it really. If EZY can not make NCL viable then shifting operations 40 miles down the road will not make a lot of difference. It would be the same catchment area but with less access. EZY could maybe make MME pay by using aircraft based in Europe for a few select destinations but probably not of a frequency that would interest them.

Doncaster is falling due to it being too near and too well connected to other airports. Direct trains to the escalators at MAN hourly. Leeds just up the road, BHX a couple of hours by direct train.

[rpmac]

I think Newcastle is also losing out to Edinburgh these days. When Edinburgh was more limited to a few charter flights many travelled to Glasgow, but also Newcastle. But now that Edinburgh has a much better choice of both charter and lo. co. flights to an ever increasing number of destinations, travelling to Newcastle is generally not on. As for using MME which did happen from the east of Scotland years ago that is now a waste of time, and in fact if being willing to travel that far continuing on to LBA for a better choice of flights is a better option.

[paarmo]

Easyjet have a tried and trusted model. They are not Ryanair. Easy fly from somewhere TO somewhere. NCL and LBA are somewhere whilst Doncaster and Teesside are just near somewhere. I cannot understand why they took on Doncaster anyway. Perhaps it was something to do with Peel Now they are winding down perhaps it is something to do with the new owners.
Forget locos at Teesside they are here today gone tomorrow flibberty gibbets. Look at Thomson. They were here 30yrs ago and are still here and expanding over the winter. Now that is the sort of customer you want. If the new owners could tempt Thomas Cook Group back then that would be a coup.

[pug]

I must point out that DSA is not a base as such, there are no crew stationed there. It is also not known what plans they have for DSA just yet, it is rumoured that they may have a few months break and return in March or April with perhaps more routes. So there is no formal knowledge about them 'pulling out' as some are suggesting.

If they do leave NCL then i dont see why they couldnt try something similar to DSA at MME. MME has HOTAC facilities onsite like DSA does. But then again who knows if they are even planning to pull out of NCL anyway? Someone posted on another thread that EZY may be bringing in an A320 to NCL next summer to operate some longer routes.

[P330]

I'm hearing KLM are sending in an E190 this afternoon. Presumably a first for the airport. Anyone know why?

[mmeteesside]

Yes they are, however its not the first one, I think there's been 4 or 5 now.

[OMGitsDAVE]

Is there a particular reason for this, or is it just due to a fault on one of the usual fokkers?

[OMGitsDAVE]

Anything new? Haven't heard anything from the website this month, something's up! Not usually this slow.

[papa oscar]

Only another round of redundancies throughout the Peel/VAS Airport Group.
Can't see there's much to cut at DTVA.

[MME4eva]

Given a fairly active thread on pprune and several other well known DTV related sites out there, what do people think about the prospect of a 'Friends of DTV' association being formed, along the same lines as the independently run FODSA (Doncaster) and FOLA (Liverpool)?

As far as I can see, these are run with the support of the airports involved and could bring together all those interested in DTV out there. Only thing is what would the acronym be? FODTVA isn't as catchy as FOLA or FODSA so how about FOTA?...not wanting to reawaken the name change argument yet again!!

On another note, I contacted Aer Lingus recently asking for the reason behind the axing of the DUB service and whether it will be back next summer but have had no reply. Anybody got any news on that?

[DTVAirport]

FODSA contacted us quite recently about setting up a similar scheme at MME, someone replied but I don't know what the outcome was/will be.

[en2r]

On another note, I contacted Aer Lingus recently asking for the reason behind the axing of the DUB service and whether it will be back next summer but have had no reply. Anybody got any news on that? The reason behind the axing is that there's a shortage of aircraft at the moment. They're basing an additional aircraft at Cork as Aer Lingus Regional (Aer Arann) are taking over another 2 routes from Aer Lingus mainline (Cork to Birmingham and Manchester). As a result Dublin is losing an aircraft. The aircraft being pulled currently operates Dublin to Cardiff (as well as Cork to Cardiff). The MME and DSA routes are being dropped and Dublin to Cardiff is being reduced to twice daily and will operate in the old MME and DSA slots. Cork to Cardiff will be operated by one of the Cork based aircraft for the winter. I don't know whats happening next Summer. Aer Arann have more aircraft on order which I think are due next year so I'd imagine Dublin will get it's lost aircraft back then, but I don't know if MME and DSA will be reinstated.

[SWBKCB]

Reason may well be shortage of aircraft, but presumably EI are dropping the MME/DSA routes because they are the poorer performing ones.

[N707ZS]

Are there any load figures for the flights?

Who was supposed to advertise the flight? There has been next to nothing.

Another disaster from the start!!

[paarmo]

Load figures as requested back to Home page (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/PAX.htm)

[ted320]

Slight off topic, are there any virtual airlines based at DTVA? I remember Noble Air used to have a base with a close community several years ago?

[N707ZS]

Thanks Paarmo with those figures there are a number of virtual airlines on there.

New FRA stands looks nice shame they couldn't do the whole apron and make a good impresion for visiting aircraft.

[MME4eva]

It must be said there has been very little advertising about the DUB flight but I think the same could be said about the services from MME as a whole. Apart from those interested, I wonder how many of 'Joe public' actually look into flying from MME nowadays before looking at LBA, NCL and MAN.

Since the figures listed were from May, it would be interesting to see if they have improved slightly for June, July and August.

We may well see EI and DUB as a summer only destination from MME as was the case with NCL-DUB with EI A320s a few years back.

[andrewmcharlton]

What is the point of a "Friends of Association"?

Baffled....

[paarmo]

Dear Andynomates,
It's patently obvious what a friends association is. It's like friends of the earth who..............do things about earthy matters and friends of hospitals who............do things to do with sick people. Presumeably the friends of Durham Tees Valley Airport will................. Yeah I'm baffled to.
Unless the whole ethos of the airport changes I can't see them getting much of a welcome, let alone a meeting room for their meetings and free parking. Security even hassle the spotters on public land at the end of the runway.

[andrewmcharlton]

Paarmo, why do you insist on some insulting opening remark? Fairly pathetic really.

I didn't ask what one was I asked what the point was, something which you seem to agree with apparently.

Give it a rest.

[MME4eva]

Well I was neither calling for one or signing up...just merely an enquiry given the two other airports in the VAS/Peel group have one and, from a quick look, hold various events in and around the airport.

Anyone know when the passengers figures for June and July are available? May was down 11% from last year so will be interesting to see if the gap has narrowed or widened over the busier summer months.

[highwideandugly]

.....Now theres something you dont hear very often!!

My guess is the downward spirall continues??

No sign of major(or any) improvement on the horizon however by default!! figures should start to rise over the winter?? i.e a couple of extra flights per week compared to last.

[mccdatabase]

Security even hassle the spotters on public land at the end of the runway.

Thats because there are no airline staff left at the airport to hassle !! :eek:

[TSR2]

June 2010
26,330 Pax
Down 11.8% on June 09
241,637 Pax Rolling Year - Down 49.4% on 2009

July 2010
24,503 Pax
Down 13.5% on July 09
237,810 Pax Rolling Year - Down 45.2% on 2009

[MME4eva]

Latest pax figures route by route don't paint a positive figure given July is peak season. JER not looking great at average 52 pax and Bourgas at 88pax on average (49%) perhaps the most worrying! Thought these routes were staple routes for MME!!

[DTVAirport]

Bourgas was shared with Inverness most of July.

[Midland 331]

Vaguely spotterish:- any idea what departed 05 sometime before ten last night? Lots of classic jet noise. VC10?

r

[Britannia]

Was a VC10.

Source: Airport Movements November 2009 (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/2010Months/2010Aug/Aug25.htm)

[Midland 331]

Thanks for the link - very useful!

[paarmo]

VERY touchy Andrew C.
Back to the point in question. Would anyone like to start up a Friends of Tesco or Unilever or Arriva Buses? It's the same principle. Teesside Airport is a commercial enterprise and should be recruiting it's own friends through it's own efforts to give customers what they want. Send the staff Christmas cards and lots of complimentary comments by all means if you must but Friends Of ? Get real they will drop anyone like a brick if it suits their purpose.

[andrewmcharlton]

It isn't touchy, just common courtesy and no need for personal remarks. Disagree by all means but keep it civil.

[pug]

I do wonder how long FODSA and FOLA will last under the new circumstances. I dont understand what help they actually do...

[lplsprog]

FoLA have existed for over 30yrs and if you want to know more just visit their website fola.org.uk FoDSA are a new organisation set up when Finningley was still under development with help from FoLA.

[pug]

LPLsprog, thanks for the correction, DonnySteve, ive checked their websites before and have never really understood exactly what they do. I know they public support groups for the airports but what do they contribute in terms of moving the airport forward? I ask as a genuine question and im not trying to undermine any members.

[JKKne]

I'm sure this may have been covered before but currently back in the UK and visiting friends in Yarm for a holiday

Looking along the A19 and the A689/90 Hartlepool Road, everything still says Teesside Airport and some of those signs are new!

The hotel I was staying in offered a pick up service from Teesside Airport and the lovely Katherine at Tourist Information sent me a lovely info pack and details of flights from....need I say?

My point is probably made

[lplsprog]

Pug
FoLA was originally set up to promote the airport when it was in local authority control. The council didn't have much money for promoting the services from the airport so FoLA was formed to carry out publicity duties for them on a voluntary basis. They toured local travel agents and shows with airport information and generally made the public around Merseyside aware that there were flights available from their local airport without having to travel to airports further away.
In addition to this publicity role, these days FoLA carry out the airport tours and have built up a good reputation with schools in the area. They also have had schools visiting from far away places i.e. Kent, who combine a visit to the city of Liverpool with a tour of the airport. A lot of colleges bring their sixth form Travel and Tourism students as part of their GCSE studies.
This is only part of the activities they carry out, hope this makes it more clearer.

[DTVAirport]

lplsprog - based on your description, it sounds like DTVA could very much benefit from such a group!

[pug]

Thanks for the info LPLsprog, that makes much more sense, however i do wonder if that is the purpose of later incarnations at other airports? Or is it just another way of gleaning information on what airlines they have been talking to this month and could they say 'i would use a service to (ad infinitum) twice a year'? Even though they probably would'nt...

Such a service at all three airports could serve as a benefit, but not if its just to serve the wishes of a few enthusiasts on seeing their local airport get more flights.

[paarmo]

Another reason for not closing the airport. The RAF and lots of other NATO Airforces love the place. An RAF Tristar was pulling aeronautical wheelies over Middlesbrough today and pretending to land at Teesside.Couldn't do that over Heathrow could he?

[holgate]

the tristar was class!,.....people in thornaby were just stoping in there tracks watching it being flung about!!!!,....kept the kids amused for 5 minutes!
Do the raf have their "favourite" airports where they do their training?,....or is it that the airspace is relativley quiet up here and they can pretty much do what they like?.....would they pay the airport for the services they provide?,....sorry if its a daft question,...just wondering.

Keep the faith lads

Holgate.

[skyman771]

paarmo The RAF and lots of other NATO Airforces love the place.

Not that I agree or disagree, but what is your source or is this just your supposition ?

[N707ZS]

In the good old days crew training was the norm at Teesside two or occationally three airliners at once mixed with a number of jet provosts.
I wonder if the NIMBYs were on the phone about the Tristar and VC-10s.

The VAS team are supposidly coming soon to see what they have bought.

[paarmo]

I haven't always inhabited this box Skyman. In fact I still talk to real people in the outside world. Some of those real people wore and wear blue uniforms.

[highwideandugly]

Interested like Skyman ..As a regular visitor to DTV..PAARMO can you explain the statement RAF and NATO love us? Only see the occasional Tucano and Typhoon these days> Also do we get much revenue from these movemnets or do they just annoy the locals with the noise!! and upset ATC with the extra work??

does anyone have a program for next year yet are we expecting bigger and better things or will it be just more of the same?

[mccdatabase]

does anyone have a program for next year yet are we expecting bigger and better things

Unless the management get their collective finger out a mix of town houses and affordable starter homes seems likely :eek::eek::eek:

[mattfalcus]

I was talking to a former Duty Officer from Teesside who, back in the 80s, got all of the airliner training sorties in by offering free landings as long as they buy their fuel from us. Was a nice way to keep the airport busy during the downturn in flights happening at the time.

BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews.


As for VAS, I've heard from someone else that a new route or routes is in the pipeline, so fingers crossed. They told me who and where, but I won't say anything yet as it's only rumour.

[MME4eva]

My bet is TOM with either a Paphos or Larnaca (both VAS airports).

[skyman771]

Paarmo, I believe you got my point, but :-
Some of those real people wore and wear blue uniforms
...I guess that this is also standard issue to prison officers..;)

What I don't see is the actual value added of such flights being significant, the comment :-
BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews.
Sums it up succinctly, you earn revenue from based aircraft & the personnel attached, but as for a few "wheelies" with the odd VC10 / Tristar belting out the decibels from the old Spey's or indeed "quieter" RB-211's then what else?
To me there would also seem to be a dearth of NATO heavy metal (or indeed any metal!) winging it's way across the North Sea to beat up the DTV circuit, may be I'm missing something ?
As for the RAF then don't they have their own bases to practice? as a tax payer then I can't see why one would want to expend money unnecessarily. In any event when the odd visit is necessary, presumably for variation?, then I have to assume that the facilities (ILS) at DTV inhibits many potential visits case in point, E3's don't seem to love DTV, judging by their propensity to visit NCL on such sorties!:(

[HeathrowDictator]

and upset ATC with the extra work??

And why would ATC be upset at getting extra work? Bring it on I say, I would love to be kept busy throughout the whole shift! It's what I signed up for!!

As to revenue, we don't get involved in billing side of things but I would guess money does change hands - how much though I wouldn't know.

As for those who complain about the noise, I would like to know how long they have lived there - most of the time the airport was there longer...if you don't like the noise don't buy a house near an airport ;)

-HD-

[paarmo]

Skyman, unfortunately the RAF are a little light on training hours at the moment and aircrew do not get carte blanche to arrange their training anymore. These are the latest stats on military movements but if you reasearch further then you will see that there is a longtime association between Teesside and military aircrew. back to Home page (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/MILITARY%202010.htm)

[andrewmcharlton]

I'm not sure what justification those stats assist with? Apart from the Charters which are presumably returning or delivering folk to Afghanistan the remaining handfull of approaches don't really make any impact on the viability or otherwise do they?

If the MOD wanted to go elsewhere then there are enough alternatives that would have little meaningful impact on their costs.

[NorthSouth]

mattfalcus:BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crewsLet's get real here. BA hasn't operated any form of the Vanguard since 1979 and basing one of them at Tees-side for a few weeks 31 years ago really doesn't give any guide to what's commercially possible for DTVA now. Additionally, while Tees-side was always a key diversion airport for Leeming when it was an active Tornado base, those days are over. And with Tees-side identified today as one of the regions likely to be worst affected by public spending cuts, the prospects of local demand for mass air travel saving the airport are not good. The takeover of Peel Airports operations by VAS only means there will be even more emphasis on every aspect of the airport making a profit, which means less staff, lower standards of service, and much greater effort to extract money out of traditional areas of airport operation (flying schools, Cobham). Other airports get round this these days by fleecing the public for car parking and shopping, but DTV hasn't got any punters so shopping and car parking aren't a viable source of revenue.
It's not a pretty picture but as soon as you hand over responsibility for airports from local authorities to (ultimately) some overseas asset-stripper you have to accept the consequences. Airports are a local public infrastructure asset so if you turn them over to private interests you open yourselves to all the risk associated with that.
NS

[skyman771]

NorthSouth
It's not a pretty picture but as soon as you hand over responsibility for airports from local authorities to (ultimately) some overseas asset-stripper you have to accept the consequences
You don't actually have to even look overseas.
Peel only sold 65% of it's airports business to VAS, Peel airports owns 75% of DTV. One way or another then there is I suspect an element of "Jam tommorrow" in the deal for Peel :E
As per last published figures for Peel Holdings :-The latest accounts, for the year to March 2009, showed a 9 per cent fall in turnover from £53.4m to £48m, with pre-tax losses widening from £4.6m to £13m. Net debt grew to £105.5m.. Then in reality what do you expect VAS to do ? The introduction of the odd twice weekly flight to "where ever" in the greater context of the situation at DTV is unlikely to change much at all.:ugh:
I recall reading some reference to the fact that VAS were to turn their attention to DTV in the first instance "cuts both ways" in my view, another winter in deficit ?:hmm:

[jamier]

I know at my secret scottish airbase the pilots if flying south prefer to go to Teesside as a diversion as theres less traffic there than at newcastle.

Also all the Jet provost at Cosford we trained on all have Teesside frequency cards in the cockpit!

[NorthSouth]

jamier:
111 Sqn divs to Tees-side rather than Newcastle are all very well but (a) they have to have enough fuel to fly the extra 30+nm and (b) having done that they might as well go to Leeming.
As for freq cards in JPs at Cosford, I refer you to my previous post on BA Vanguards!
I reckon if it wasn't for Cobham the doors would have been shut by now.
NS

[highwideandugly]

My secret scottish air base!! 111 sq or any sq. what difference does it make where the pilots want to go?? surely they go where they can?? needs must?? when was the last time an operational sq.landed in dtv other than leeming aircraft? and i beleive they dont pay anyway if emergency..so no revenue there?

image the talk in the mess...think I will go to DTV tomorrow instead of newcastle if i need to land somwhere...rubbish..sorry! try getting a job on the board of peel or VAS !!

[DTVAirport]

Can't remember if this is already common knowledge or not, but Monarch will be doing a weekly Palma flight next Summer.

[skyman771]

DTVAirport
Who is the flight operating for ? nothing as yet on Monarch's site. Presumably a weekly "W" which appears to be simply a piece of "cherry picking".
Is it a full summer series?, only PMI competition based on this year would Thomsons 1xWkly offering so in reality this is 100% increase in capacity:sad:... now there's one for the marketing team...
With reasonable promotion and prices... then another "bucket & spade" can't fail but the fact remains that 100% of "not a lot" isn't actually "much at all".
On the subject of the Spanish holiday market then currently for "S10" the only other offering is RYR's 3*wkly ALC which ends 31 October. Is this being reinstated/expanded for S11?
My earlier postings have been extremly skeptical of DTV's short / medium term viability & one has to presume that based on projections for S11 then the pax no.'s will continue to remain substantially below break even.
Am I missing something ?:confused:

[DTVAirport]

I first came across the MON flight on the Wikipedia page, but I don't trust that so upon doing a little digging I found the flight does exist & it's operating for Thomson, whether that's instead of this years PMI or as well as I don't know.

[GrahamK]

Looks to be instead of the TOM flight

[Going loco]

Skyman - I'm interested in whether you actually want MME to recover. You seem to take a curious pleasure in remininding everyone how bad things are as often as you can, which achieves what exactly?

[paarmo]

Skyman is a glass half empty person and sees problems and conspiracy theories where they do not exist.
It is disparaging to all " bucket and spade " passengers to dismiss them as not worth bothering about which seems to come across in his comments. If I am wrong on this then I apologise in advance.
"Bucket and spade " flights are where small regional airports started and it is where they should place themselves in the market nowadays.Just look at who has been a stalwart of Teesside aviation and who are operating a very strong winter operation from Teesside , Thomson. Where are the Locos and Regional Carriers? Counting their money and not assisting in any way with Teesside's recovery.
"Bucket and spade " passengers are the airport operator's dream. Wodges of cash before departure and willing to pay for ice creams for the kids, a pint for dad and perfume, sunglasses and a book for mother. Bring them on.
As an aside VAS are "experts" at running an airport and not closing it down as hinted at in an earlier post.They have only been in post for a few weeks and I think they should be given a chance before you start sniping at their progress.

[DTVAirport]

paarmo - in the past I've viewed most of your posts as harsh attacks towards individuals as opposed to constructive criticism, and whereas that last post of yours begins the same way, you've hit the nail right on the head & I couldn't agree more.

[skyman771]

Skyman - I'm interested in whether you actually want MME to recover. You seem to take a curious pleasure in remininding everyone how bad things are as often as you can, which achieves what exactly?
All this site needs is another “thread hopper” looking at matters through rose tinted glasses, from somewhere on the South Coast.
In response I care about all the airports in the North East, as in general the level of services offered is falling away, though much more so at DTV to the South of the region.
I at no time whatsoever indicated that I want any business to fail that would be stupid & irresponsible. However having been involved in many business over the years then accountability is a major factor, you do well & achieve results then you receive the accolades Make a complete mess and you take the criticism, though more importantly positive steps need to be demonstrated that issues are being addressed, they do not go away by ignoring them.
The real world is that barring public service organizations, then business exist to make profit, those that don’t can’t continue indefinitely. What is the point of ignoring this, as in always “treating the glass as half full”?
Accepted that motivation is an element of any success as is team building, but where has this manifested itself in any significant level historically at DTV?
Finally business such airports don’t fail on their own, there are many complex & unfortunately political factors, however those individuals that have accepted the responsibility, taken the money & other benefits are accountable, that they have largely escaped with their reputations in tact justifies many of my earlier postings.
I wish VAS every success, that as yet there would appear to be little to seize upon doesn’t necessitate that one should remain silent.

[Going loco]

What's a thread hopper?
What does my location at the time I registered have to do with anything.
Do you actually have any constructive suggestions about how MME could attract new airline business for the benefit of the North East.

[skyman771]

Do you actually have any constructive suggestions about how MME could attract new airline business for the benefit of the North East
Same question to you !

On another tack I note the Aug 10 CAA data now published & good news is the AMS pax no.'s are up 1.2% at 9144.
Some one else may wish to comment further and no doubt take a pasting !:ugh:

[Going loco]

I think airports like MME are ultimately more vulnerable to the economy, sandwiched as they between other bigger airports and not benefiting from huge local catchment areas. When the economy suffers they are the first to feel the pain and when the economy recovers they are the last to feel the benefit.

I would think that with a sustained period of economic growth, bigger airports will see passenger growth and competition returning which in turn will make some operators feel the heat and look at alternatives. MME is reasonably well placed to pick up some of this spill over from NCL and LBA. I don't think it will be quick and I don't think there will be a huge amount the management could do to make it happen quicker. I don't think it will going bust anytime soon either because airports generally don't. HUY broke even last year with less than 300,000 passengers. Manston is still going with a handful of flights

[shaftr1]

Going Loco
I'm pretty sure that HUY had a few more than 300,000 passengers, granted maybe not alot more but closer to 400,000:rolleyes:

[MME4eva]

Ok, maybe not going to add a huge number of pax but Newmarket have expanded their 'special departures' to include again Naples and Verona but also Sicily and Seville. Let's hope they're supported.
Having a look on the Newmarket website, I also see holidays to Ireland with Aer Lingus on several dates in May and June. They have the same flight codes and timings as the current Aer Lingus Regional MME-DUB so is this the first indications DUB flights are back for next summer?

Also, santa flights to Rovaniemi again with Thomson.

[aidoair]

Having a look on the Newmarket website, I also see holidays to Ireland with Aer Lingus on several dates in May and June. They have the same flight codes and timings as the current Aer Lingus Regional MME-DUB so is this the first indications DUB flights are back for next summer?


Don't look too much into it. They also have the same on DSA departures, including flights operated by EZY to Barcelona and Amsterdam for departures in May 11 etc... and we all know they have pulled out and were never on sale in the first place after January. I don't see how Newmarket should be allowed to do this.

[DTVAirport]

whereas Sicily & Seville are good additions it should be noted that there won't be a Malta next year.

[JKKne]

The list of cuts by regional development agency One North East has shown that around £1m for acquisition of land and improving infrastructure for future development around the airport has been axed

Not sure how this will affect DTV's plans but bit of bad news

[skyman771]

JKKne
The list of cuts by regional development agency One North East has shown that around £1m for acquisition of land and improving infrastructure for future development around the airport has been axed
I'd take an even more pragmatic view then as "One North East" itself is to be axed then unsure as to how it will effect development projects in the North East as a whole !:(

[DTVAirport]

Slightly spotterish but surely worth a mention that an Air Tahiti Nui A340 is sat on stand 1 as we speak!!!

[MME4eva]

Is this the start on the 1x weekly rotation to Tahiti over the winter?!!;)

Notice the EI operation is winding down for the end of the month already-any word on next Summer and a possible return?

[OMGitsDAVE]

How long has this Tahiti service being going?

[Jamie2k9]

Notice the EI operation is winding down for the end of the month already-any word on next Summer and a possible return?

Aer Arann are due before the courts shortly over the examiners. All EI routes operated by Aer Arann ane not on sale after March 30 2011.

[skyman771]

How long has this Tahiti service being going? :eek:

Duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !:sad:

Just think !! how could any A340 of any airline operate a LR service ex DTV off 2291 metres max, irrespective of the stupidity of the concept.:ugh:

[N707ZS]

Tahiti was a sub charter.

[GrahamK]

Air Tahiti Nui have been operating quite a few MOD flights into EDI, and MME.

They'll be operating out empty to CDG I'd imagine.

[mmeteesside]

Bringing troops home from Cyprus then returning empty to pick more up. Same one for 2 weeks non-stop (bar a few Omni's filling the gaps)

[N707ZS]

Great advertisement guys!!:ugh:

[paarmo]

I can't see why the thought of a Teesside Tahiti connection is ridiculous Skyman. After all Teessider's were visiting Tahiti in the 18th century.
Albeit by boats and Captain Cook had a bit of bad luck on Hawaii but that's the problem with travelling alone rather than with a charter company. ATOL soves a lot of problems.
I think another one is due shortly so watch the DTV Movements forum so you can travel down and see a real aeroplane.

[skyman771]

paarmo
Takes a bit to make me smile, but you did it ! certainly food for thought.

As for seeing a real aeroplane, then I don't "spot" & thus not really my scene, I have however admired this airline when noticed on my many transits of LAX in recent years.:ok:

[uklad007]

Clutching at straws but given Easterns takeover of ASW could we see a summer NQY return next year - it's worked in the past although realise we are in very different times now to then! Also wondering what the strategy of VAS will be. It will also be interesting to see how Thomson work out this winter.

[nooluv]

Playing football with my son Preston Park lunch time.
Large 4 engine transport light blue & white on climbout fromTeesside behind the clouds most of the time!
Any Ideas?

[planenutter]

That would be Air Tahiti a340-300x as said earlier in the forum, bringing troops back ;)

[nooluv]

Thanks plane nutter.Thought it was Air force one Ha!
Regards nooluv

[skyman771]

Thought it was Air force one Ha!
Shouldn't laugh, it's bad enough you couldn't distinguish a 747 from a A340!:sad:

[nooluv]

skyman most of it was behind cloud! could just see it was light blue 4 engine.
& I was joking..

[P330]

BBC News reported this morning that DTV is to charge all passengers 6 pounds every time they use the airport. VAS were interviewed and they mentioned owners couldn't keep writing out cheques for a loss making business and the airport may have to close if these kind of steps are not introduced! Not good IMO - more reason to use NCL.

[papa oscar]

Blackpool introduced a £10 per passenger 'Airport Development Fee' in January 2009 and soon after Ryanair pulled out. The future of DTV is not looking good.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire!!!!!

[highwideandugly]

Great start for VAS !! is this a sign of things to come? By my reckoning thats a maximum of only 750K raised.

Me thinks this is a massive OG for such a small punitive tax.I know up at Newcastle there was uproar at having to pay a pound or so to use the car parks.What will this do for local suppoort?

More harm than good and what is next??

Pound to use the aircraft steps??
Pound to walk across the tarmac ??

Pound to exit the revolving doors??

No hope I'm afraid-I'm off to leeds!

[apaul]

A passenger fee would just push even more passengers to Newcastle and Leeds and increase the rate of decline.

[skyman771]

I only heard this for the first time earlier today. So as an observation then how is this to be administered?
The only UK airport that I have come across something similar was NQY. Where it was administered & indeed collected as a departure tax. i.e. you actually had to have paid for a ticket which you needed to present to board a plane. Being "in your face" & not as simply an additional cost at time of purchasing one's airline fare then it did raise it's profile to those who had a grievance. However in NQY's favour was the clarity that your money was going to assist the development of new airport facilities which were abundantly obvious.
As to how this will be seen in DTV's case is possibly a greater issue if seen as simply some form of punative employment tax simply to keep the airport open.:=

[mattfalcus]

According to the official story on the airport website, you will have to buy a ticket from a machine and then present it when you go through security.

I've experienced this in Peru, at both Lima and Cusco airports - in fact you queue up before going through security to pay for your ticket as part of the process of going through to departures.

Hope it works for DTV. It's not going to be popular.

[paarmo]

Peel tried to build custom by making it cheaper to fly from the airport. This didn't work.
VAS obviously think that making it more expensive to fly from the airport will work.
Stranger things have happened but this seems to "fly" in the face of all other business practices apart from those at Rolls Royce and Rolex etc. but they have a premium product and a world famous name.

[JKKne]

Hmm, I can see why they've done it but it seems the wrong decision.

Perhaps if they want to attract airlines they have to show the airport's ability to turn a profit and this is a way they feel they have to do it.

The comment from Mr Richmond
“If I was a businessperson here I would much prefer to fly from an airport like this rather than Heathrow or Gawtick where, with all due respect, you are a widget in a big machine.”

Although I'm sure in good intentions makes little sense. If I want to transit via Amsterdam then, yes, Teesside is great but that's it! It sounds desperate if anything. As is the comment of people living within 50 miles will understand the charge. They simply won't understand it, they'll go to NCL or LBA where they can use facilities for free.

People did rally against the NCL car park charges but they did maintain a free zone and when they can fly where they want to, see investment in terms of shopping and facilities then they will be less likely to complain.

The problem will be people understanding this and not taking business elsewhere, it may not affect the businessman on Eastern or KLM as he might not be paying the cost but the leisure traveller might be put off which won't attract those charter or lo-co's or scheduleds. (looking at local press comments it seems it's already going down like a brick in the Tees)

[peel]

Just checked and it doesn't look like it's happening at either Doncaster or Liverpool. If it's good for one airport I wonder why it's not good for the others.:ugh:

[ted320]

Personally, I wouldn't notice an extra few quid on the price of my airline ticket, but it will really p**s me off to have to pay £24 for 4 of us out of our holiday spending money just to go through to departures.

Sorry DTVA, won't be flying from you anytime after November 15th!!

What will they do if people can't pay, don't have cash etc.?? Will they charge extra for cards?!

Will airlines be warning people of this? I bet the airlines are not happy!

[Get me some traffic]

Before you can charge, you have to get people into the terminal. To do that you have to offer services. This is nothing more than another attempt by Peel to close the airport and sell off the real estate. Peel are property developers after all.

[JKKne]

Just checked and it doesn't look like it's happening at either Doncaster or Liverpool. If it's good for one airport I wonder why it's not good for the others.:ugh:



I imagine they both make a profit with EZY an FR and thats the sole purpose.

I don't think they are pretending this is anything more than a profit making excercise.

Two people travelling through probably covers the hourly wages of some staff members

[skyman771]

ted320
Personally, I wouldn't notice an extra few quid on the price of my airline ticket, but it will really p**s me off to have to pay £24 for 4 of us out of our holiday spending money just to go through to departures.
Ted320 You have identified the problem absolutely spot on.
Irrespective of the "colour and appearance":O of the ticket vending machine it will be interpreted by the majority of pax. as an "in the face penalty" for using DTV.
The other downside is that the resentment, not to mention lack of cash in pax. pockets will have a detrimental effect on the tills of the other airport shops & sevices. I see this as in reality setting up an incestuous circle where the only possible outcome is lose - lose..... "now lets see we'll charge more for significantly less and expect... what ?" Even this bright idea surely can't emanate from the remaining DTV marketing team.
Reality must surely be "last chance saloon" without this charge then perceived overheads not covered to an acceptable extent, "say guys! lets try & buy some more time..":ugh:
Suprisingly no one has touched on issue as to the airlines reaction to this charge, as in effect it is also another barrier to their revenue generation potential from DTV:(

[N707ZS]

This probably sums it up for the whole of Teesside!

YouTube - The Fiery Furnaces - The End is Near (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDFuU1dmz28)

[JKKne]

The Gazette is running a survey for people asking them what they think of the charge with the following questions


What do you think of the charge?
Outrageous
Understandable

no middle ground there then!

Will the £6 charge put you off flying from the airport?

How important is it to have an airport in the Teesside area?

How often do you use the airport, how many times and what for?

Which other airports have you used?

Should people support the local airport even if it costs more?

Would you be more loyal if it was called Teesside again?

Where do you think DTV will be in 12 months time
Still struggling
Under Recovery
Closed Down
Cargo Flights Only

Which destinations would you most like to see at the airport?

What factors are important in choosing an airport and how important?

Total cost of travel
Departure loung facilities
Range of destinations and flights
Distance from home
Car parking charges
Ease of access
Local loyalty
Full customer experience



Expect tomorrows Gazette to be filled with some tirade like comments and very little positive news

[SWBKCB]

From the Northern Echo - no idea if these comments have any substance or are just kite-flying:

The region’s business leaders have defended the Passenger Facility Fee that comes into effect on November 15, but last night the move looked as though it could backfire. Budget airline Ryanair may scrap its summer services to Spain in protest and other airlines are monitoring the situation to see what impact the fee has.

The other English airports which have done this (Blackpool, Newquay, Norwich) have at least tried to link it to airport development, where is this seems to be of the use it or lose it, loss stemming (not profit making) variety.

Another quote:

Craig Richmond, Peel Airports chief executive, told The Northern Echo that the airport is losing millions of pounds every year and, unless it can balance the books, the region could lose what he called “a jewel of an airport”.

Mr Richmond said: “I understand some people might be quite incensed by this announcement given the economic climate. This is not an attempt to pad our pockets, we must do it to survive. The fact is somebody has to pay for it or Durham Tees Valley won’t exist. We won’t get bailed out by the Government and our investors are not going to be infinitely patient, writing cheques to keep the airport open."

[skyman771]

Craig Richmond, Peel Airports chief executive, told The Northern Echo that the airport is losing millions of pounds every year and, unless it can balance the books, the region could lose what he called “a jewel of an airport”.
Well unless I am mistaken then this is the first instance when Peel have "come out" and stated what has been obvious to any reader of this thread over the past 12 months or so.

[pug]

Seems a great shame to me, would things be different had Peel taken a different approach and continued to develop the charter market instead of getting WW in?

What about DSA, that only a couple of years ago was reported to be losing around a million quid a month? LPL has yet to make a profit too. I just hope they are not going down the road of SZD again.

[Jamesair]

I am presuming this is for departing passengers only!

Just can't imagine this charge doing anything at all except to decrease passenger use of DTV.

I have a feeling that you won't see Ryanair for dust, Eastern being a niche business airline will have to watch to see how it affects their pax numbers.
Charter Airlines.....this would have a big effect on family groups...i.e. 2 adults + 2 children...£16...not good.

[jetstar.8]

There is one plus that it free to arrive at DTVA the fee is only for departing passangers or you could look at the fee as £3.00 to Depart and £3.00 to return which doesn`t seem too bad :E

jetstar.8

[LEEDS APPROACH]

In my opinion there are too many airports in this small country. Should every sizeable town, such as Doncaster or Middlesbrough, have its own airport when there are other principal airports serving large conurbations less than an hour away? The only routes that will ever really work are to Malaga, Alicante and the like. Routes repeatedly being started and then failing from these smaller airports only serve to destabilise the same routes from the key airports. Admittedly Teesside airport has a fine history (was it an RAF base?) but it will always struggle to be a viable airport. Don't get me started on Doncaster as it never should have been built - that's knowlegable politicians for you. The same inept politicians that for years have helped hold back my local airport by having zero ambition and foresight, and now having sold it for millions, wonder why there are no proper roads too it!!:mad: I know you will come back trying to justify these airports but the hard facts speak for themselves. Not wishing to antagonise but just saying it how it is. Oh yes LUFC will win at boro tomorrow too. So there!:p

regards,

LEEDS APP.

[Toadpool]

Something seems to have been overlooked here. What happened to the supposed £12 million court settlement the airport, not Peel, won against BMI baby?

Is this another example of Peel's asset stripping of the airport?

[TSR2]

Oh yes LUFC will win at boro tomorrow too. So there!

Hope they don't take a 4 - 1 lead :O

[SWBKCB]

Isn't the bmi baby case subject to appeal (i.e. £12m up at half time)?

[Mike Tee]

A "well spoken" lady passenger when interviewed on local TV last night sais she would object to paying the £6 charge to fly from DTV. I can't see the logic in that. Would she rather travel 100 miles (round trip) to Newcastle and pay the associated costs. In my opinion DTV has always suffered for being just a bit too close to "Big Brother" Newcastle. Years ago even Teesside Travel Agents would offer flights and Holidays from Newcastle when there was an alternative from our own doorstep here at Teesside. Also many years ago (Remember Hurricane Charlie) during a "Cockpit" visit I asked the Captain of our Cyprus Airways Airbus what is our "Alternative" if we couldn,t get into Newcastle. "Manchester" was his reply. "What about Teesside". "Where ?" I pointed it out to him on his chart !!!. Hhmmm he said !!. All very frustrating.

[aidoair]

I'm not sure but I thought the bmibaby case was all sorted now :\

I do know one thing about them taking baby to court though. While they had a right to do so, it will have put many potential based operators or imparticular low fare carriers off from flying into MME. Airports have to look attractive to airlines from the outset.

[skyman771]

Toadpool
What happened to the supposed £12 million court settlement the airport, not Peel, won against BMI baby?
Is this another example of Peel's asset stripping of the airport?
I must admit that I am not to sure as to whether this has been resolved, I had read that DTV had won it's appeal, but with all such cases these are subject to further action or perhaps a settlement that was of benefit to both parties with a restriction on full disclosure.
Either way you are perhaps missing the point somewhat. The reality is that DTV is part of a group & it is to the group that any settlement would be payable, thereafter funds would be allocated internally as in the best interests of the group.
The reality is that in any organisation running at a large trading deficit, then this requires funding, when further borrowing is unpractical/excessively expensive, and cost cutting providing only longer term returns, then it is totally acceptable business practice to use such "windfalls" in this way.
I suppose that on an equitable basis then as in all likelihood DTV's operations have contributed significantly to such loss then from this perspective also they have no reason to complain.:(

[ConstantFlyer]

There is a fundamental problem with airports like Teesside and Finningley: they are now in the wrong place. Years ago when they were built, they served the purpose for which they were built. Those purposes have changed, but unfortunately it's now quite difficult to put the runways where they really need to be. I've always thought that airports should be part of regional transport hubs that bring together air, car, rail, light rail and bus facilities, so that people not only have smooth easy transfers from one means of transport to another, but that they also see how easy it can be to get to and from the airport. I for one would like to see a city centre airport in every city catering to business, commuter and inward tourist traffic, linked by air or fast rail to larger out-of-centre leisure and long haul airports.

[highwideandugly]

Do you think VAS/Peel have one eye on the up coming review?

I suppose the FR contract is the biggest money earner at DTV and if its part of the cuts to be announced then I would think DTV days could be counted in weeks.

Makes sense that FR operate from a MOD/RAF airfield.Just think of the savings to be made by the MOD.On top of that Peel cut the hours and availability of DTV some time ago and this cant have helped their cause?
This coupled with the shambles last winter with airfield opening-then I fear some decisions could be taken away from the local authorites/Peel/VAS.

It could be a very long(or short) winter!!

[Hipennine]

Although there may be a view that this extra charge is of no matter to the business traveller on expenses, believe me that it could be a big disincentive to use MME.

I was delighted to find out the other week that I can now book and pay for NCL short term parking on-line, because:

1/ It removes another transaction going through the airport.
2/ It allows me to get all the evidence of expenditure necessary to satisfy the Tax and VAT man electronically, and file it all on the PC without worrying about collecting numerous bits of small paper for filing.

Having to pratt about with another payment machine at the airport (probably early morning when I'm looking to maximise time in bed rather than having to allow further minutes for queueing for machines that are confusing people and may not work properly), and stash away yet another piece of paper/cardboard receipt, is in itself sufficient for me to go to NCL if there's a choice (and my experience of MME's parking ticket machines working properly/refusing credit cards is not good), even if NCL costs more (I'm equidistant between the 2).

Consider also the non-regular, non-UK business traveller who gets to the airport just in time to get his flight, who now suddenly is faced with another process.

I know that YVR used to charge an improvement fee (don't know if they still do), but they've got a bit more of a captive audience as a genuine international gateway.

If FR are threatening to pull out and do so, it's because they realise the impact of the charge when people work out the total cost of the flight.

[N707ZS]

Cobham come and go as they please 24 hour, new modern hanger, upgraded ramp. It would possibly be more cost effective to move the likes of the Hawks and grobs to DTVA and close the three or four dormant RAF stations in North Yorkshire.

[10 DME ARC]

Cobham come and go as they please 24 hour

?? Or go into NCL overnight in the winter when MME is closed!!

[papa oscar]

Cobham come and go as they please 24 hour, new modern hanger, upgraded ramp. It would possibly be more cost effective to move the likes of the Hawks and grobs to DTVA and close the three or four dormant RAF stations in North Yorkshire.

Not so. They still have to apply for an extension to operate outside the published hours.

[Centre cities]

At least with airline charges it is visible when booking, if I am not local, book a flight on the web, will it list the tax or will it be a lovely suprise when I arrive at the airport.

Can you imagine being charged to use the rail station in addition to the price of the ticket.

The days of several of the smaller UK commericail airports are numbered and this is one of them.

Centre cities

[N707ZS]

I thought the Beech 200s operated during the night some times, obviously someone needs to be there to put the lights on.

[uklad007]

i think on scheduled flights it would depend on the airline if they incorporate it into their website - it really would be down to them to point this out or the travel agent i guess even if they dont impose it.
Am not sure how (and i think a fee is imposed at Blackpool) the likes of Jet2 or the other airlines show this - same as Newquay.
I know for a long time now, a number of Carribean airports have imposed a departure tax or arrival tax - a lot of them higher than the £6 at DTV..and i think tour operators call this out, not sure if the likes of BA/Virgin do on flight only scheduled services?

My personal view on the tax is it seems odd to me - i would reduce landing fees in order to get more services in and get money on passenger fees that airlines pay - as passengers more use new services then revenues go up, then again am not in airport management and am not privvy to that sort of information so i cant accurately comment.
These are hard times - the airport know the £6 on the volume of passengers isnt going to stem the losses they are hinting at but may plug some sort of hole...the risk is one big risk for current operations and that is Ryanair as they dont like this sort of thing but then again Ryanair dont like check in desks either.
I cant see the AMS or Easten Services being at risk over this but attracting new airlines could be interesting. I assume their priority to attract more airline as hinted s is looking more at Charter than loco/full service and charter pax I guess would spend more at an airport like DTV than business pax would.

I can see how it affects a family of four going off on their hols, however package deals for years have included airport supplements (and our local airport always seemed to have high ones on flights i took ) they could incorporate it into the price that way and at check in hand out the vouchers to pass through security - if incorporated into the ticket price they wont notice it/feel it - its the action of at the airport going to the ticket machine and handing over the money that way they will feel more..... I have just spent £800 return to come from SEA through AMS to MME for christmas - when i go back on the return leg £6 or no £6 i dont really care, it would cost me more to get to NCL or MAN than £6...and as i will over the next couple of years fly back and forth like this it isnt going to put me off using MME....providing I can

[TSR2]

Am not sure how (and i think a fee is imposed at Blackpool) the likes of Jet2 or the other airlines show this

Blackpool Airport impose a £10 Airport Development Fee on all adult passengers but do provide free parking for up to 14 days. This ADF charge is not mentioned throughout the Jet2 flight booking process. It is also worth noting that Ryanair cited this charge as the reason for pulling out of Blackpool Airport altogether.

[MME4eva]

I agree with UKlad that lowering landing charges for airlines or cutting already cheap car parking could bring more pax into MME but the £6 PDF is guaranteed income whereas the other options are speculative and I guess the airport management are sick of looking at potential income and/or passenger figs and are dealing in the here and now.

As for Ryanair, I wouldn't worry too much as I strongly suspect that they will pull the ALC route anyway next year with or without the charge.

As UKlad said and like the comments in the local press from pax at MME on Friday, it probably won't put off those pax already using the airport who enjoy it being on the door step and see a sense of local pride in using it. Sure they'll be the odd few who spit their dummies out and use NCL and LBA but good luck to them as I for one don't enjoy being stuck by the metrocentre or dawdling along hte A59 for 30mins after having left the A1.

The stupid thing is, when you factor in petrol, journey time and parking, using either of these is going to easily quadruple the £6 PDF. I would guess a lot of MME pax save on parking and either get a taxi or family or friends drop them off.

It is make or break time for MME, although it saddens me to see the way things are going, I think its about time the people of Teesside stand up to be counted and show some loyalty to what is their airport. I;ve said it before but what would it cost for the local press to run a 'save our airport' campaign highlighting destinations and doing price breakdowns comparing the associated costs to travelling from NCL or LBA. For example, a lot of the time, KLM via AMS to CDG or other european destinations works out the same as going easyjet or jet2 once you add on the petrol money and car parking at the 'big two'.

[DTVAirport]

Something that I find interesting is, at other airports when this has happened, Ryanair have pulled out immediately without a seconds hesitation, whereas the press mentioned with us they're only 'considering it'.

I for one thought ALC would suspend for Winter like last year but just not return next Summer, but with load factors well over 85%, maybe...just maybe....

[skyman771]

I can see how it affects a family of four going off on their hols, however package deals for years have included airport supplements
Interstingly then it would appear that DTV are to introduce this at the beginning of the winter schedules. So the obvious question then for at least the first 6 months, then how many "families of four" will theoretically be subjected to this tax?
As the the question of it's administration then as I noted previously, nothing has been said that indicates that it will not be as simple as :-
"Place your cash / plastic card in a vending machine & out pops a ticket which you will need to present on checkin, else you won't get a boarding pass!"
As far as I recall then tear off part of voucher removed around time going through security, at which time any e-checkins with electronic boarding pass & without baggage would be verified in any event. The airlines themselves do NOT become involved at all in it's administration.
This is how it has worked at NQY from my experiences and presumably still continues to do so.

[apaul]

It will affect the Thomson charter flights over the winter. Many passengers will already have bought these flights and will be doubly aggrieved to have to cough up retrospectively.

[MME4eva]

The £6 PFF will not affect those flights or holidays already booked as long as proof of purchase is shown. This is as per the FAQs on the airport's dedicated PFF website.

On a side note, Viking Airlines have suspended operations for 3 months or so which may put in doubt the expanded Newmarket programme from MME to Seville, Naples, Verona and Catania (Sicily) next year.

[apaul]

Thanks for putting me right on the small print. If it is publicised that the £6 charge can be avoided by booking before 1 November then some of the inevitable fall in passenger numbers might be reduced or postponed. However, the way the charge is being introduced is a recipe for chaos. From 15 November there will be three categories of passengers - those that do not have to pay and have the right paperwork, those that do not have to pay, but don't have the right paperwork, and those that do have to pay the 'facility fee' for the worst facilities in the region.

[MME4eva]

Well at least the flyBE MME-JER route will be back for Summer 2011:D

Timings very similar, if not the same as this year;


BE1186 11:40 13:15


BE11850 9:40 11:15

[OMGitsDAVE]

Finally some good news.
Is it still on a Saturday?

[MME4eva]

Yes and I presume it will still be a Dash 8.

Still no sign of it on the DTV website though or a 'save our airport' style campaign by the local media :ugh:

[skyman771]

Feedback on Gazette's survey re. new proposed charges:-

Passengers slam Durham Tees Valley Airport access charge : Durham Tees Valley Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/durham-tees-valley-airport-news-211010.html)
I suppose it is to be expected.
Interestingly :- More than half - 52.6% - also said they no longer feel the same loyalty to the airport since the name change from Teesside Airport.
To be successful in sales then one should listen to ones customers..:ugh:

[groundhand]

MME4eva,

All assuming there is still an airport to operate to/from!

[idlejack]

Operates 28-May-11 - 10-Sep-11 on a Dash 8, as per Flybe timetables.

[andrewmcharlton]

Unless my maths is seriously awry something doesn't stack up in the survey and press comments referred to.

They claim they will bring in £500,000 in a year at £6 a head, ignoring kids for ease.

Isn't that some 83,000 passengers? Are they expecting another cataclysmic plunge in the number of users? Thats an impressive 230 odd a day !

[TSR2]

I think you may be right.

Pax numbers for rolling year to Sept.10 is 266,830.

On a ratio of 4 adults to 1 child my calculations show the income generated will be £1,440,882 per year.

[NorthSouth]

I presume it's only collected off outbound pax so that would be £0.5m collected off a total of about 166,000. Still a long way short of the 266,000 though. Are they making some pax categories exempt?
NS

[highwideandugly]

Dont forget that figure is each way...just count the outbound-ie half.Gives about 500K as per my last message!!

[TSR2]

I presume it's only collected off outbound pax

Quite right. Sorry my mistake. Blame it on my age.

[andrewmcharlton]

I heard a priceless interview on Radio Newcastle with the CEO of DTV moaning that APD was killing the charter and infrequent SLF trade as "folks resent having to pay taxes" or words to that effect.

There is no issue then with their own departure charges then I assume? Bit rich moaning that Government was adding to the cost which puts people off and then stump your own charge, but that's ok then.

[paarmo]

Unfortunately VAS do not appear to have read their own glossy website because all they appear to have done so far is to get people's backs up and deliver nothing. None of that was mentioned on takeover day.
I feel a glass half empty moment coming on.

[N707ZS]

Nice to see the winter Tom flights are flown by a 738 aircraft based for the weekend.

[jumpseater]

highwideandugly
Dont forget that figure is each way ..just count the outbound-ie half.Gives about 500K as per my last message!!

hwd
Don't bother with the facts then... :D


What is the Passenger Facility Fee (PFF)?
The Passenger Facilities Fee is a charge made by Durham Tees Valley Airport (DTVA) on all departing passengers to help support the continued operation of the airport and to secure its future.

Airport Information*|*Passenger Facility Fee (PFF) (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/airport-information/passenger-facility-fee-pff.html)

[highwideandugly]

Jumpseater...sorry you have lost me...your point is?

[pug]

Clearly that all departing passengers pay the (whatever the charge is called) fee. :yuk:

[highwideandugly]

Me thinks Jumpseater is a member of VAS accounting team..I'm still trying to get my head around the/your last message(OK I know its not important in the grand scheme of things)

Please explain ...I said you only count outbound passengers and costed the same,approx.You said ..well you said..well I dont know what you said and I dont know what you mean about hard facts? Thanks Pug for the explination??

whatever..we are still in a mess!:ugh:

[jumpseater]

hwd, nope, not a VAS accountant.

I mis-read the context of your 'each way' comment, in response to a previous poster, and got it wrong. :uhoh:
My apologies. :ouch:

And yup I hope DTV's situation improves significantly.

[highwideandugly]

thought it was me!! no problem..i guessed as much.

However we are in a state bit like boro!! not sure where we go and not sure where 2011 will lead us? by this time we normaly have a heads up re summer schedules?? anyone got the picture yet?

[N707ZS]

I see Ryanair are advertising DTVA to Alicante flights for 2011.

[aidoair]

I see Ryanair are advertising DTVA to Alicante flights for 2011.


Where abouts ??? It's not on their website timetable? Isn't Durham Tees Valley is still in the drop down list from this summers flights...

[Jamie2k9]

In the New Routes section. Not bookable yet but will be in the next few days.

[P330]

Yes, according to Ryanair, flights resume on 29th March 2011. This would be good news.

[mmeman]

Some good news, looks like the Thomson flights are back next winter, TFS, ALC and SSH all in the timetable for winter 11/12.

[aidoair]

Yes, according to Ryanair, flights resume on 29th March 2011. This would be good news.


Should be good news. Though this is a change of direction for FR to operate from and ''Additional Passenger Departure Fee'' airport. I guess Peel/VAC must have persuaded O'Leary and his crew hard on this one?

[Jamie2k9]

Should be good news. Though this is a change of direction for FR to operate from and ''Additional Passenger Departure Fee'' airport. I guess Peel/VAC must have persuaded O'Leary and his crew hard on this one?

Passengers over 12 years who fly from Ireland West Airport Knock are charged €10 Airport Fee. I'm don't think that FR include this when you book flights. I think you have to pay it at Check-In. I would say it's going to be like that here as well.

[aidoair]

Passengers over 12 years who fly from Ireland West Airport Knock are charged €10 Airport Fee. I'm don't think that FR include this when you book flights. I think you have to pay it at Check-In. I would say it's going to be like that here as well.

Sorry my mistake this is true. Come to think of it Newquay airport imposes the extra charge too where FR operate to Alicante. It is just recently, there's been rumours of FR threatening to pull out of DSA if they introduced an additional charge for departing passengers. . . Whether true or not no-one knows, but should they return to MME then they will certainly continue to sell the DSA flights should a charge be introduced.

[mmeman]

Durham Tees Valley has gone from the new routes section on the Ryanair website.

[Jamie2k9]

It is still in the booking system and shows as operating.

[DB5]

Reaction in the local media both yesterday and today to the introduction of the new £6 Passenger Facility Fee (PFF) at DTV rather strangely appears to be generally positive. Local radio ran a phone-in and at a guess, around 90% plus of callers said they wouldn’t mind paying the PFF, mainly for the convenience of being able to travel from their own doorstep.
However, the main message to Peel / VAG that came across very loud, and very clear, from everyone whether they were young, old, business or leisure users was that whilst they would be prepared to pay, they weren’t ever likely to actually do so because of the abysmal lack of destination choice available, and until that was resolved, Peel wouldn’t be seeing any of them in the departure lounge at all.

One other snippet that’s also on the record since yesterday - Craig Richmond, chief executive of Peel Airports, revealed that senior management was in talks to introduce new destinations from DTV, with Cyprus and Jamaica under consideration.
Cyprus I can understand, but Jamaica! Where did that come from?

[dwlpl]

Cyprus I can understand, but Jamaica! Where did that come from?

Its because they, VAS, own airports in both countries and are hinting that they can do deals on fees.

[NorthSouth]

Fees? But most airlines these days don't expect to pay ANY fees. And Jamaica flights off a 2500m runway? Oh yes I just realised, it will be easy because most of the seats will be empty :ugh:

Maybe like Flybe not so long ago they'll pay a bunch of Jamaicans to sit on the flight so they can say they're operating the service.

NS

[N707ZS]

A long time ago DTVA had the first North East flights to the Dominican Republic with My Travel and the next day the aircraft did a Florida.

A question, if you haven't yet paid you airport "poll tax" and your flight gets diverted to say LBA do you still have to pay before you board the coach?

[Toadpool]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/433993-hawks-fly-coop.html

Any comments?

[apaul]

According to today's You and Yours Ryanair is threatening to withdraw because of the fee. Morton said they were having a meeting with KLM which is also unhappy.

[skyman771]

Fees? But most airlines these days don't expect to pay ANY fees. And Jamaica flights off a 2500m runway? Oh yes I just realised, it will be easy because most of the seats will be empty
No you have got the wrong way around, this is much more likely to cater for "Rasta holidays" for Jamaicans down the Riverside;)
On a more serious note, other than a few "one off" Jampot caribbean break trips which is all one could expect from some local advertising, I really can't see any demand whatsoever. Like anything it is essential to get the basics right first. i.e. address the short haul loco destinations at reasonable price & flight timings. With patience (is there any?) and effective marketing then there is a chance.........

[paarmo]

Was the Hawk from Valley doing overshoots yesterday doing a serious recce for things to come? Security obviously will need to be beefed up but location, weather , ils and lack of traffic all point to a good match.I saw a tin building big enough to house 4 Hawks and ancilliaries put up in 4 hours on previous footings yesterday. Just a thought.

[N707ZS]

Can anyone remember the one off flight to Rio with Varig back in the eighties? About four people booked it, so it was bined.:{

[OMGitsDAVE]

Durham Tees Valley Airport 'warned' over new charge

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49514000/jpg/_49514290_dtvairport.jpg The airport is operating at a loss and needs to "stabilise" its finances

Durham Tees Valley Airport has been urged to make efforts to ensure passengers are aware of a new departure levy before they arrive for flights.
Adult passengers are now charged a £6 airport facility fee and children £2.
Owner Peel Airports said the move was necessary to safeguard its future in the face of rising costs.
But the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has told airport bosses they have an obligation to make passengers aware of the fee before they turn up.

MORE: BBC News - Durham Tees Valley Airport 'warned' over new charge (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11777791)

[POL1W]

I wonder if anyone can answer this question. Assume my inbound flight to Newcastle diverts to Durham Tees Valley, say due to weather at NCL. I know the pax on an inbound flight do not pay the charge. But, assume the weather at NCL does not improve, and the outbound pax are all coached down to Durham Tees Valley from NCL as the aircraft is waiting there, are they all asked to dig into their pockets and stump up £6 as they get off the coach to get on their flight, even though it should have operated from NCL?.

[TSR2]

Good point.

I would hope there would be no charge to the passengers. If there is a charge levied by DTV, then the airline should stand the cost as it was their decision to operate the flight from an alternative airport.

[andrewmcharlton]

From the BBC:

Middlesbrough airline boss admits fraud charges

A man who said he was setting up an airline to operate flights between London and Durham Tees Valley Airport has admitted a number of fraud charges.

Victor Bassey, 49, of Outram Street, Middlesbrough, pleaded guilty to eight charges at Teesside Crown Court.

They included three of fraudulent trading, four of obtaining services dishonestly and one of possessing an article for use in fraud.

He set up Excelsis Airways but the flights were never started.
The trial started with Bassey denying all 11 charges but he later changed his plea to eight of them.

He pleaded not guilty to one other charge of fraudulent trading and two of obtaining services dishonestly. Prosecutors will offer no evidence on those charges.

He will be sentenced on 20 December

[highwideandugly]

Here we go again!! was thinking of writing a rant about DTV winter ops again-but then a bit like the airport owners,couldnt really be bothered.
So if any one would like to look back at Dec,Jan and Feb posts just change the month.Comments would be the same!!!

No lessons have been learned and yet again the airport is struggling to even keep normal operations going.I think only one delayed movement yesterday.Maybe VAS/PEEL could put some of the tax they earned yesterday into buying a bottle of deicer.

while on tax-didthe TOM pax get there money back for the diverted flight or just a credit note??

[DTVAirport]

They're making every effort to clear the snow! Last years fiasco was down to one single major error & they'll no doubt have learnt from that mistake.

An airport like DTV cannot justify investing loads of money in snow clearing equipment, and having been up at the airport a couple of days ago & seeing for myself what equipment they do have, they should be proud! If they can't open the airport because of snow, it's highly likely it's because the snow is still falling!

[mattfalcus]

All North East and Scottish airports have been closing with these snow falls, so let's not start getting negative about DTV closing.

TOM managed to get in at 2230 last night and then depart later for Luton, so they did manage to stay open even when there was snowfall happening.

[N707ZS]

Local radio said nine inches of snow fell at 4am so the volume to clear must be massive with the equipment that is available. I struggled what to do with it on the front path, good luck to the guys on the ploughs.

[highwideandugly]

Too true..those guys deserve medals for their attempts at keeping thye airport open,with..it must be said..sub standard equipment and probably not enough of it?

however it doesnt detract from the scenario that DTV is now also a sub standard airport.

I see on another thread that5 our friends up the road are also struggling to keep open bvut it seems to be working.As a result our KLM flights are cancelled but KLM are putting the passengers for here onto the newcastle flightswith larger aircraft..Coming so soon after the fiasco of last year and the talks that KLM are not happy withtaxes at DTV..is this a potential nail in our coffin??

I still say the passenger taxes could be used to buy some up to date equipment and actually invest in the airport rther than subsidise the losses.

[Mike Tee]

Yes I can, I believe it was arranged by Kyle Travel who had a shop in the Terminal at the time (now in Yarm High Street). The flight was scheduled to operate via Lisbon but as you say never got off the ground.

[highwideandugly]

Hi all.
thought i'd try and organise this over the next few days?

We can all take time out to remember when there was an airport at Teesside...oh those heady days when Eastern Jetstreams used to come and go..how we laughed.There would be a tear in our eye when yet another Falcon would depart to the north.
Oh the noise when those blue and white Fokkers of KLM used to raor overhead and can we ever forget the odd IT flight taking happy holiday makers to the sunshine? The days when you didnt have to pay to depart and car parking was free.I think I remember a train stopping once a week at the local railway halt?
Unfortunately now all vague memories of a golden age.



So come on, MME Paarmo,dtv, and the rest..share your memories and bring some sunshine back into our lives.

[Hipennine]

Remember the days of the Midland 737's leased in with yankee flight crews who were sooooooo cool. Remembered flight deck announcements:

On departing MME circa 7am one sunday "Good morning aviation lovers - can't think of any other reason you'd be on a plane at this time on a Sunday"

On early approach to LHR "Well the worlds greatest ATC's have just given us landing clearance, that'll be 27 minutes take-off to land; woooo wooo what a record !"

On landing into a blizzard at MME, skittering all over, and stopping right at the end of the runway "Sheesh, sure looks pretty out there don't it, but I can assure you from up here it's a pain in the neck"

Also remember one dark evening with them running late out of LHR, when it seemed like a full cruise to overhead the airfield, followed by what could best be described as a spiral dive above Middleton to a near on-time arrival. Not very professional I know, but I was one of the few pax that enjoyed it. Service went back to Midland's own DC9's about a week later.

[deltahotel9]

The one thing you can say is that the airport have had plenty of publicity this week, hardly a national news bulletin without mention that DTV is closed due to snow, its in good company though when you look at Gatwick, less said the better :rolleyes:

[N707ZS]

737s were 732s TEA Belgium, they supposedly had a few good nights in the hotel bar.

I wonder if VAS has any expertise in snow clearing which could help or is it just the lack of thr right kit. We all know its expensive to buy and bad economics if it only gets used for two weeks of the year.

[skyman771]

highwideandugly
Reunion! I thought I was reading an obituary !
Putting the current situation in perspective, then where is the progress?, I recall my first MME departure from a new modern and functional terminal building to Spain on a BKS Brittannia back in 1967 ! I think there may also have been an Autair Herald insitu.
I must say I fear for the future, the current icy weather simply puts the situation into perspective as to the cost effectiveness of the snow clearing vs. the actual contribution available from the revenue obtained....
Interestingly I noted yesterday that Peels Doncaster venture was not fairing much better.:hmm:

[highwideandugly]

OK I will come clean..that was meant as sarcasm-but OH so true!! Skyman was closest to guessing and you win a free departure tax ticket.

and by the way..DTV is still closed!!What is going on?????????????????Surely Cobham,KLM,FR etc will be starting to query the benefits of operating through DTV during winter months?

Why no statements from VAS/Peel, councils etc.surely the travelling public and people of TEESSIDE deserve some explanation??

[Cactus99]

Passed by yesterday afternoon in clear blue skies and saw one little snow blower on the runway, nothing else. Didnt exactly look like a concerted effort to get the runway open.

[lbalad]

Ready for business,it appears the TOM flight has a near 12 hour delay,no doubt due to the weather and the Spanish ATC problems.

[mccdatabase]

I worked there for 19 years and there was never too much of a problem with snow, in fact we got a lot of diverts from LBA and NCL, wonder what has changed or has the place just lost the will to live ??

[paarmo]

That was before we were aware of global warming. Apparently according to the new model we will get more snow because of it. No I don't understand it either but lots of people are making lots of money from it.
I do remember travelling with British Midland and the trolley dollies serving breakfast before we reached 10,000ft and at an acute angle as the flight was so short.Happy days because returning it was free drinks all round.

[mccdatabase]

Do you remember the 3 course jobbies with the corn flakes then snorkers, bacon , beans and scrambled egg followed by roll with marmalade ?? yum yum

Those were the days !!

[Hipennine]

Yes and Beef Olives with Claret on the late afternoon return !

[OMGitsDAVE]

Forget the Freeze - and take your choice in Turkey

As the North East shivers there's some much brighter news on the horizon with the confirmation that Turkish Holiday specialists Holidays 4U will be boosting its programme from Durham Tees Valley Airport next summer.
The largest independent tour operator to Turkey, with a wealth of experience built up over 18 years, Holidays 4U will have four flights a week-two to Dalaman and two to Bodrum-on offer from Durham Tees Valley at the height of the season and this year holidaymakers will have an even wider choice of accommodation...including one of the best hotels in Europe.

Holidays4U expands operations at DTV: Media Centre | Press Releases | Forget the Freeze - and take your choice in Turkey (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases/forget-the-freeze-and-take-your-choice-in-turkey.html)

[TSR2]

The largest independent tour operator to Turkey

Yes, they may be now ...... all the others went bust earlier this year.

[paarmo]

Are these grapes as sweet as they were?

[Mike Tee]

Remember when Spantax used to operate the CV990 into Teesside, I do. Remember those very busy Saturday afternoons when arriving flights had to wait on the taxiway for a parking space. At the same time Orion used to fly in their crew changes in a "light twin" from East Midlands. Remember when Air UK Leisure from Newcastle to the Canaries used to drop in to top off the tanks prior to continuing south. Remember when Security escorted me onto the apron to get a better picture of a diverted BA 747 as the early morning sun was thwarting my attempts through the fence. Remember a Malev Tu 154 picking up a full Synphony Orchestra and all their gear, that gave the baggage lads a challange. Remember the Aviaco DC8 who ignored ATC instructions to "continue to the end, 180 on the concrete, backtrack and left at Bravo" and turned right at the end to followthe rather narrow taxiway to the apron with what seemed like very little of the black stuff between his main gear and the grass. Happy Days !!.

[mmeteesside]

Appears KLM were planning once again to up the frequency to 4 a day, they hold a slot for an later mid-morning flight (KL1532) to Amsterdam around 1020 but no return slot.

[mattfalcus]

Flybe are also returning for the Saturday Jersey flight in Summer 2011. It was May-September this year, so I presume the same again.

[highwideandugly]

just watching the news,lots of snow around down south?? good chance to pick up some diversions and put our name on the aviation map??

look forward to the lists!!

[OMGitsDAVE]

Not many diverts as yet.

[SWBKCB]

lifted this from the Luton thread (with credit to TBSC) - MME not available for Divs

Latest update from Eurocontrol. Guess not much operators would send a flight over the UK without alternates available...

Valid from18/12/2010until19/12/2010 - Released18/12/2010 20:56 ------IMPORTANT INFORMATION----

OPERATORS ARE REMINDED THAT THERE IS A VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF
AD'S IN UK THAT ACCEPTS DIVERSIONS.

PLEASE CHECK WITH AIRPORT AUTHORITIES BEFORE FILING IF YOU HAVE
NO AIRPORT SLOT.

THE ONLY AD'S STILL AVAILABLE BUT AFTER CO-ORDINATION WITH
RELEVANT AIRPORT AUTHORITIES ARE THE FOLLOWING:

EGFF, EGCN, EGPF AND EGNM
.
CFMU OPS/BRUSSELS

EGFF = Cardiff, EGCN = Doncaster/Sheffield (a fellow VAS airport), EGPF = Glasgow, EGNM = Leeds/Bradford

[N707ZS]

No diversions and no snow!

[airhumberside]

Would MME have enough staff on duty to handle diversions?

[N707ZS]

Thats probably right Humberside, no staff as they have been cut back. Still no snow at the moment.

[Get me some traffic]

Not too many years ago, Teesside had the second highest number of diversions in after Birmingham and very few diversions out. Not once but for several years.

[highwideandugly]

Really is past a laughing matter...another day another almost blanc flying programme.This time exploding runway lights!!! This really is becoming(if not already) a joke airport.VAS/Peel must be pulling their hair out..whatever next.
Having said that..its really all their fault.No investment,lack of staff,low moral and as a result an airport whose reputation must be in tatters.

Get me some traffic is right..DTV(sorry Teesside) once had an enviable reputation as a diversion airport...but now?? Which airlines can seriously consider using them.One problem after another ,some natural some mis managed?
where do we go from here to get a reputation back? Its pretty galling watching all those diverts over the top into Newcastle when ,with the right structure we could have.

What next..any ideas?? anyone ???

[Piltdown Man]

Appears KLM were planning once again to up the frequency to 4 a day, they hold a slot for an later mid-morning flight (KL1532) to Amsterdam around 1020 but no return slot.

KLM don't need a slot. AMS is not overloaded and they will go whenever there is money to be made. Whether or not they can use their aircraft more profitably is another question.

PM

[papa oscar]

highwideandugly, you are such an idiot and your last post proves it. The runway lighting was recently upgraded at a huge cost to Peel by a company that specialises in airfield lighting and, as such, has contracts world wide. These are the people to blame for today's lack of movements.

The problems experienced today were no fault of Peel or any of their staff. If anything the staff at DTVA sorted out the issues and got the place back up and running ASAP.
You obviously have no experience of running an airport and sit there in your armchair with sod all better to do than post pathetic comments on here.

At the end of the day, it's their (Peel/VAS) business and what they do with it is up to them. Yes, the local council hold a share but they are like you, have no idea about running an airport.

Oh, and just in case you are wondering, no I don't work at or for Peel/VAS, I work at a number of airports/airfields.

[Mike Tee]

Hello all, the current problem with the Lights was reported on another Forum as "Runway Center Line Lights" which has me puzzled as I didn't think that DTV had Centre Line Lights. Anyone know if inn fact this is the case.

[N707ZS]

They have had centre line lights for about ten years.

[highwideandugly]

to you Papa Oscar !! Sorry if I upset you,
however the facts are there..the airport is now a shambles.No one is blaming the staff..as always they are the sufferers in all this.Underfunded and undervalued.I really would like to know the business plan for VAS/Peel/council now..its one PR disaster after another..

Name me another major UK airport that has been closed as much over the last 12 months..co-incidence or what ? 24 hours to replace some lights where was the manpower provided by VAS..surely outside contractors could have been brought in to assist the local guys?

OK I dont know much about running airports but if my business operated like that then I would have grave concerns.:ugh:

[Mike Tee]

Thanks N707ZS I didn't know that, but it does beg the question, if they managed without Center Line lights prior 10 years ago it does seem strange that they had to shut down the airport for best part of a day to repair lights which they operated without before.

[N707ZS]

I believe the ice actually broke the fittings shearing steel bolts and also covering the runway with debris when they broke. The temperature was about minus 8 all day so it must of been hard to replace what they did.
Someone more in the know might correct me.

[papa oscar]

N707ZS, in short that's what happened. The temperatures overnight reached -20 deg C which caused the water under the light fitting to expand and push the light fitting upwards. The lights have a surrounding cover plate which due to the forces caused the glass fittings to shatter against the cover plates. The cover plate securing screws were also damaged so they could not easily be refitted.

The runway was closed due to the safety hazards associated with the loose centreline lighting. The staff at DTV did managed to get the runway open with a reduced distance whilst the repairs were in progress which does show that DTV do have some pro-active staff.

So now having the full facts, you may be able to appreciate how the staff do their utmost to keep the place running. Would you want to be out working in the middle of the runway with temperatures down to -10 deg C; thought not!!!

[Mike Tee]

Thanks for the info Papa Oscar, I agree it must of been a right bugger of a job and all credit to the staff. As for working outside in minus 10, well there are a few of us who do have that sort of experience, not on a runway but 100 feet up in Chemical Plant pipe racks, middle of the night and blowing a blizard, no I wouldn't want to be doing it !!!

[idlejack]

MME appears to have been completely removed from the Ryanair website.:(

[neil_2008]

mmm, that is interesting. Another airline pulling out?

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have pulled out.

[DTVAirport]

I bet if you worked it out the loss of Ryanair will probably cost the airport a similar amount of money to what the PFF is making them.

If it was me, I'd have done a secret deal with Ryanair to make their passengers exempt from the fee.

[mmeman]

I have to agree DTV. So come on VAS/Peel, what are you going to do now to replace those passengers that would have used the airport?

Ryanair were going to fly the route 5 a week, an increase of the 3 a week last year.. I would hazard a guess they might have even done Tenerife and Faro as per DSA?

That is Ryanair and Aer Lingus lost this summer compared to a very poor summer last year anyway.

There are people that want to fly from MME and can't and don't want to fly from anywhere else but have no choice.

I can't see the VAS investment in Peel has done anything for the airport whatsoever and in fact it has jsut made things worse. :mad:

[DTVAirport]

Rumour has it we're still under Peel control & not VAS, despite all the fancy percentages etc.

Despite a fear of sounding like a typical pre-25 yr old ppruner I don't mind saying I've been told of four routes in the pipeline but have been told in confidence. Two we're already aware of so I'll share those - Larnaca & Paphos with Monarch apparantly still in the pipeline (VAS connection, which contradicts my 1st paragraph but hey ho), the third I'm supremely skeptical about & the fourth is possible I suppose but no idea who would operate it.

[pug]

Do you honestly think hes gunning for it???

[N707ZS]

Any takers for the Alicante route then?

Six pounds each doesn't seem much now against the price of petrol and parking or getting a friend to do a double trip to another airport.