DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[NorthSouth]

Airport bosses have not given up hope of boosting passenger numbers too, despite seeing them fall from a high of nearly one million in 2006 to about 200,000 this yearHmmm, to achieve 200k pax this year they'd have to have a >87% increase on last year's pax for the remainder of this year. Unless you call 150,000 "about 200,000" of course.
NS

[davidjohnson6]

It seems that round 3 of the regional growth fund was announced in December last year, with bids being accepted between late Feb and mid June this year. It would seem likely that when Peel Investments purchased the airport from Peel Airports, they would have been aware of the existence of the fund.

The comments from Peter Nears seem quite interesting - looks like he has been told unofficially the money is not coming, but he can't say anything publicly without breaching a confidence.


“We have as yet received no official indication from the Government as to the outcome of our bid for support from the Regional Growth Fund for the Southside Scheme. We will clearly need to review the news if, and when, it is confirmed, but it would be a great disappointment as it was a scheme that was well advanced with occupier interest and it would have produced much needed activity at the Airport as well as create jobs. We remain committed to the delivery of the scheme which is important for the long term prosperity of the Airport.”


How critical is the hoped-for money to the Peel Investments business plan ? The phrase "important for the long term prosperity of the airport" is worrying...

As a slightly more general question, what have Peel Investments said publicly about their business plan for MME over the next few years ?

[N707ZS]

I wonder if we could add 5.9 million onto Newcastles morgage.

[highwideandugly]

good idea but unlikely... that's all sorted I am led to believe and all covered by......passengers,concessions, movements and freight!

sorry to say although they were saddled by a debt by parkin(i think)(leeds watch out!!) they have sorted the finances out with lots of firm interest.Unfortunately..you cant say that about here...as mentioned earlier the clock is now ticking..even quicker.

bTW has anyone noticed there is even no radar available(check the notams and RT from the radar guy):ugh: and will be that way for some time..surely not a good offering to the airlines?

lights out guys..

[GARDENER]

No radar... No real issue to be honest.

[SWBKCB]

£5.9m - think that was Parkin's bonus!

[N707ZS]

good idea but unlikely... that's all sorted I am led to believe and all covered by......passengers,concessions, movements and freight!

Sounds like a bit more Wonga!

[onyxcrowle]

Anyone know why this is in a holding pattern 14000 feet over MME?.
KLM1533
F70
PH-KZM
210knots

[paarmo]

Ground hugging fog DTV Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/)

[onyxcrowle]

That explains that then !

[highwideandugly]

Gardener..would have thought a radar for a major airport was important? why not??

[GARDENER]

Lots of places operate with no radar and handle more traffic, I expect they still have SSR. It's obviously a bonus to have everything working!

[highwideandugly]

ok i see..do we have our own ssr? or are we dependent on others for that?

what happens if that ssr fails and the radar stll not working?

i suppose its more a fact thats its been off for sometime,,is this just another lack of investment to go with everything else? maybe all aircraft should pay a £6 fee to use the equipment just like the passengers have, to use the facilities!! (joke!!)

[GARDENER]

As far as I remember the SSR is at MME. If all failed then keep a good lookout for traffic as one should anyway and go for the visual approach backed up with instruments if necessary or if the weather is crap then perhaps procedural approach having received a service from elsewhere NCL/ military before switching to tower?

[SWBKCB]

DTVA chairman Robert Hough said the company would be demanding an explanation from ministers after the RGF bid was turned down.

In a statement issued after the bid was discussed at the airport’s monthly management meeting yesterday, Mr Hough said: “The airport has now been notified officially that the Regional Growth Fund bid for £5.9m in support of the Southside development was unsuccessful. “The directors expressed acute disappointment and will be seeking an explanation for the decision.”

However, Mr Hough said the board had reaffirmed its commitment to pursuing the Southside scheme which he said was “vital to providing sustainable aviation at the airport”



Bosses at Durham Tees Valley Airport express "acute disappointment" at bid failure (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9997208.Bosses_at_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_express__acute_ disappointment__at_bid_failure/)

[Northbound A1]

I might be wrong but I think the MME SSR is a piggy backed version from Great Dunn Fell radar up on t hills to the west.

It was a way to save money when they opted for SSR I believe.

Didnt Peel Holdings pull the ILS prior to Sheffield coming a cropper?
Whats up with the primary radar?

[Hipennine]

Ironic given that the N.Echo is saying that MME's objection to a proposed windfarm interfering with their radar, was the main reason for planning refusal for the windfarm.

[highwideandugly]

Notice the passenger figures for September(compared to last Sept) were only 4.7% down..is the decline finally halting? Rolling total for year though still at minus 17%(credit DTV movements)

I think we all await with great interest the next master plan from Peel after they have digested last weeks news re funding...Ideas anyone?

[SWBKCB]

Not so much Green shoots - with passenger throughput so low, the loss (or gain) of individual flights has a significant effect on the month on month figures, so you're not really looking at trends but the impact of individual decisions/events.

What will be interesting is Peel's reaction to the RGF decision - was the project only viable with the Govt funds (and I have absolutely no problem with any business seeking to use any funds available to them) or will they now push on by themselves?

[davidjohnson6]

Highwide - see post 2250 for a discussion of the Sept statistics. The reason for the apparent cessation in decline is that the Turkish holiday flights ended over 12 months ago so have dropped out of the stats when comparing Sep 2012 v Sep 2011 but haven't yet dropped out of the stats for comparing Oct11-Sep12 against Oct10-Sep11. After a year with no Turkish routes at MME, one assume the holiday trade has adjusted long term to an expectation that the Turkish holiday trade will in future likely be based solely at Newcastle.

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/383785-durham-tees-valley-airport-5-a-113.html#post7468207

[tubtruck]

Little bit disturbing that DTV no longer advertise routes on anna aero, how do they expect to get flights if they dont even put what is needed on the main route website.

[SWBKCB]

suspect there's a little bit more to it than putting your 'wants' list on a website...

[tubtruck]

Peel are sill willing to put their other airports on there though and DVTA used to be on the site

[SWBKCB]

DTVA aren't owned by the same company as DSA and LPL :ugh:

[fa2fi]

Oh. What's the company who owns them called?

[SWBKCB]

From DTVA website:

In April 2003, Peel Airports reached an agreement with the six local authority shareholders (Durham, Darlington, Stockton-on-Tees, Middlesbrough, Hartlepool and Redcar and Cleveland Borough Councils), to acquire a 75 percent shareholding in the Airport with the local authorities retaining a 25 percent interest in the company. In June 2010, Vantage Airport Group (formerly Vancouver Airport Services) acquired a 65 percent share in Peel Airports, which included DTVA. The six local authorities continue to be shareholders in Durham Tees Valley Airport.

On 10th February 2012, Peel Airports Limited concluded the sale of its majority shareholding in Durham Tees Valley Airport to Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peel Group.

Durham Tees Valley Airport Background Information (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/about-us/background-information.html)

[10 DME ARC]

SWBKCB - Whilst you are totally correct the last bit of your post says it all!!
a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peel Group.

[Laasjet]

Take a look at Sheffield that also felt the hand of Peel. There is a "last ditch" attempt by the local Council at the moment to stop the runway from being torn up. Little chance with an extension to the business park about to take place.

Peel is a substantial property company as depicted on their website and airports are but an interesting part of their operation.

[SWBKCB]

What where the passenger numbers like at LPL when Peel bought it?

[TSR2]

Peel bought a 76% majority shareholding in LJL in 1997 and the remaining 24% in May 2001.

LJL Total Pax 1997 .... 689,468

LJL Total Pax 2001 .... 2,253,398

LJL Total Pax 2011 .... 5,251,161

[Northbound A1]

I noted that Peter Nears (part time dtv boss) mentioned that Peel may still go ahead with the cargo park on the south side according to recent press reports.

Without the £5.9m grant I think they may find moving the large National Grid gas pipeline on the south side just a bit too expensive for a few warehouses.

There again stranger things have happened, and the local MP Wharton did say on TV last week that Peel made £55m profit last year.

Wouldnt it be nice if they spent some of that profit on Teesside Airport :ok:

Nears also asks for a reduction in airport taxes in the latest spin.
Maybe Peel might like to lead the way and scrap their own £6 passenger duty :rolleyes:
Call for tax changes to keep airports running (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9998120.Call_for_tax_changes_to_keep_airports_running/)

[SWBKCB]

I think Peel will spend some of that profit on DTVA if it will generate more profit for them.

Peels approach at LPL shows that airport development and property development are not mutually exclusive, but actually complementary.

Sheffield City shows what happens when the airport side doesn't work (and with the largest A/C type being Fk.50 size - it was always unlikely)

And is there any airport operator in the UK not asking for an APD reduction? (it would be suspicious if they weren't!!!)

[pottwiddler]

APD is burdensome, but I can see a slight 'advantage' for regional airports that fly to European hubs for onward connecting flights, such as CDG, or AMS as you'll only have to pay the short haul APD not the long haul flight. The big loser in this is the LHR, LGW, MAN etc.

Just a thought...

[davidjohnson6]

On Saturday, I flew out of MME and was slightly puzzled. As one of the last passengers to go through the gate, I noticed how quiet the airside area of the terminal was, and would remain for at least the next 3 hours as the next departure was in about 4 hours time. Even at zero rent, how do all the retail outlets make any money and cover the costs of staff wages plus cost of goods sold ?

While nobody wants to be majorly overworked in their job, it seemed as if all the people working in the retail outlets would have very little to do for a considerable length of time. There is after all only so much cleaning one can do in a cafe or shelf restocking in a shop, and chat all day with colleagues eventually becomes mundane - only so much to discuss about last night's TV. So what do these people do during the quiet periods at MME ?

[SWBKCB]

APD is burdensome, but I can see a slight 'advantage' for regional airports that fly to European hubs for onward connecting flights, such as CDG, or AMS as you'll only have to pay the short haul APD not the long haul flight. The big loser in this is the LHR, LGW, MAN etc.

Just a thought...

If it's a connecting flight (i.e. through ticket), there's no advantage and you pay the long haul rate.

HM Revenue & Customs (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000505#P186_15219)

See section 4

[pug]

I think Peel will spend some of that profit on DTVA if it will generate more profit for them.

Peels approach at LPL shows that airport development and property development are not mutually exclusive, but actually complementary.

Sheffield City shows what happens when the airport side doesn't work (and with the largest A/C type being Fk.50 size - it was always unlikely)


A bit of context may be needed though. Some may say that Peel had always planned to offload a majority stake in its airports division at the right time. Lowcost, high volume worked at LPL to great effect, however look at what is happening now; the two main sources for growth are scaling back at LPL for the larger airport 30 miles down the motorway. Sustainable growth? I'm under the impression however, that development land at both DSA and LPL remains under the sole ownership of Peel Holdings.

Some may also say that Sheffield City wasn't going to work once fire cover was reduced as soon as the new owners took over. These very same owners who, it must be remembered, had big plans for a former RAF base not far up the motorway, so you cannot blame them. Of course Sheffield City would make a better business park in any property developers $eyes$.

IMO, the biggest short term threat for MME is the decision not to award funding for the 'Southside Development'. Its interesting that the Pax Tax is still in existance, despite the people who imposed this charge have since offloaded the place. Will Peel Investments make a u-turn in a ploy to entice the likes of Ryanair to return?

[lanternrouge]

Slightly worrying news from Manston which could affect MME.

KLM are in discussions with the Kent airport for 2 daily Schiphol rotations.

Apparently, KLM requested the airport management undertake an online survey with the public regarding demand for such a service.

They had over 9000 responses, 95% of which were positive for it to start-up.

If it does, KLM will need to source aircraft from somewhere to cover it..............:uhoh:

[Andy_S]

Slightly worrying news from Manston which could affect MME.

KLM are in discussions with the Kent airport for 2 daily Schiphol rotations.

Apparently, KLM requested the airport management undertake an online survey with the public regarding demand for such a service.

They had over 9000 responses, 95% of which were positive for it to start-up.

If it does, KLM will need to source aircraft from somewhere to cover it..............:uhoh:

I really wouldn't read too much into that.

If people in the Teesside area were asked whether they wanted flights to X, Y and Z from their local airport, I'm sure there would also be an extremely positive response. That doesn't mean to say that those same people would actually use those flights if they were offered.........

KLM are not complete mugs. Why would they cannibalise a commercially succesful route in order to establish a speculative one?

[DTVAirport]

Probably the same source where they got the aircraft for the Liverpool route, i.e. not MME

[SWBKCB]

Spin or a realistic opportunity?

Fly that past us again (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10003351.Fly_that_past_us_again/)

[VentureGo]

Ambitious proposal for new North-East airport should spark new debate (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10025780.Ambitious_proposal_for_new_North_East_airport_shoul d_spark_new_debate/)

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/resources/images/2213968/?type=articleLandscape

[davidjohnson6]

Ooh ! Look at all those famous architects in London looking really clever with their free publicity for designs of a new offshore airport. I want to be really important as well ! I'm just as good as Norman Foster ! And I want a knighthood like him as well ! I'm going to design a new airport and people will see I'm a genius. Oh dear - I don't live in London so the press will ignore my plans for London. I know - I'll just pretend Teesside needs a new airport ! Yes, how clever I am. Now just have to hope nobody notices there's already a big airport in Newcastle...

[Northbound A1]

I was sure it must have been April 1st when I saw the echo article!

I can just see it now...Peterlee International....a bit like DTV international

I bet Peel will employ Mr Narey as their next spin doctor ;)

[DTVAirport]

There is a degree of sense to this but only a degree! It's more ludicrous than anything else!

I do have a good potential name though:

"Boris Island - North"

[N707ZS]

If the drawing is to be a replacement the terminal and stands are not big enough.

Is one of these guys Spanish?

And as a friend said to me earlier we should of kept Sunderland.

[paarmo]

He's not Spanish he's Nigerian. He hasn't been able to show his plan's until now because he was indisposed ( in prison or an asylum or busy sending e mails about lottery wins etc. )

[SWBKCB]

Durham Tees Valley Airport appoints new commercial director (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10042155.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_appoints_new_commercial_ director/)

Andy Foulds, who has more than 20 years’ experience in the transport industry, has described DTVA as “a success story waiting to happen”

Mr Foulds has joined the airport from the Port of Tyne Authority where he has been commercial director for the past two years, playing a key role in its growth and expansion. He has previously spent 18 years working across four continents in key roles with the international shipping group APMoller-Maersk, including spells in Singapore, South Africa and the United States.

[compton3bravo]

Looks like he knows the aviation industry inside out - not!

[SWBKCB]

Plenty experience in the freight and and distribution industry, so well fitted for the South side development. Not dirrectly relevant, but was also responsible for Cruise and Ferry development at Port of Tyne which I think has done well recently.

On the face of it, one of the more encouraging signals that Peel do mean business - but as always we'll need to wait and see.

[NorthSouth]

Is this a new post? I don't believe they had a "Commercial Director" before.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Is there any reason why RYR or EZY haven't gobbled up a decent opportunity to open up a base in Durham Tees Valley??

To me there surely must be money to be made on a select few routes??

[adfly]

I would have thought a 1 aircraft Ryanair base would work from DTV mostly serving the key Med routes, even if it is a half arsed affair like BOH is.

[johnnychips]

Is there any reason why RYR or EZY haven't gobbled up a decent opportunity to open up a base in Durham Tees Valley??

They have probably researched it and concluded it can't make any money, or they could use their equipment more profitably on other routes. At least until there is an upturn. Like DSA, the best that can be hoped for at the moment is FR summer routes from foreign bases.

[DTVAirport]

About a year ago there was a very strong rumour Ryanair were going to open a two aircraft base at MME, I think they just wanted cheap winter storage but it can be assumed after a year that the rumour was false, although it was a strong enough rumour that there must have been some substance to it, some interest must have been shown by one or both sides and talks must have been held at some level.

[davidjohnson6]

Stop press ! Hold the front page ! Pigs are flying !

Oh yeah - and MME in Oct 2012 has shown an improvement in passenger numbers compared to Oct 2011 - including stronger numbers on Aberdeen and Amsterdam.

[LTNman]

From little acorns grow mighty.......

[paarmo]

This is more realistic than a pie in the sky airport near the already named in an airport Durham !.BBC News - Airshow hopes for Durham Tees Valley Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-20401058)

[ZOOKER]

Will there be any jobs for experienced ATCOs?
ADI, ADV, APP, APS, ACP, ACS, OJTI, LCE, EXM?
I've also got most of 'Lindisfarnes stuff, (some of it on vinyl), oh, and I like Jimmy Nail.

[Northbound A1]

"you want to do what"
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/resources/images/2234881/?type=articleLandscape
Echo news link pic.
Airport reveals plans to revive air show (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10057210.Airport_reveals_plans_to_revive_air_show/)

[skyman771]

Suppose looking on the positive side, then it would not be too difficult to fit the event in between the scheduled traffic......

On a more serious note then a reality check is perhaps required, there were some excellent events in the 60's, but times (& air racing!) have moved on....

[N707ZS]

A road to the Southside its been on the plans for years.

[DTVAirport]

Do you really think FoDTVA would announce an Air Show without having first done all their homework, got necessary permissions from the airport, contacted the RAF and in general planned it all out down to a T? Of course not. This is a sure bet and come 22nd June I'll be there with 15000+ others.

My understanding is more announcements are coming from the airport imminently, none are airlines or routes, but that's something that requires patience and will come. Nevertheless these announcements are positive and are small steps in the right direction.

To all the doubters, some more than others, you clearly want the airport to fail, well hard luck it's not going to, so p*** off to another thread

[OldManJoe]

NorthboundA1, why not get yourself along to one of the Friends of DTVA open meetings and see what they have in place. I did and was surprised to see the work that's already gone into the planning of the airshow. They certainly seem to have the contacts. I'd be more than happy to lend a hand if it means we get the airshow back to Teesside.

[N707ZS]

I have been informed FoDTVA is open to anyone the press release unfortunately didn't say this.

[David Thompson]

Thanks for your offer of support OldmanJoe it's much appreciated . Thanks too to N707ZS for pointing out that the Friends scheme is open to all , please see our website for further details ; Membership (http://www.fodtva.co.uk/Membership.htm) .
As a Friends committee member I was disappointed to see that the proposed airshow was given more prominence than the Friends scheme itself but I suppose that's what the press picked up on more as it's a more newsworthy story than a group of friends getting together to try and raise the profile of the airport .
We have applied to the RAF Displays Committee for various aircraft for the proposed airshow , we did start out with the sole intention of hosting a fly-in but like Topsy it's grown and grown , and have requested the Red Arrows , BoBMF , Falcons and a Typhoon amongst others . If we are successful in our bids we are totally dependant upon then raising the funding , around £50,000 , to secure both the aircraft and the groundshows to make the day a success . We hope that resident Teesside based operators and users will support us and the GNAAS , the police ASU and Cobham have all indicated that they will plus we hope input from the local GA community in the area and from local airfields and strips . We also hope to secure an undertaking from the airport that landing fees for visiting GA will be waived in lieu of a donation to a nominated charity , one of which will be the GNAAS .
We need help both to organise the airshow and run the Friends scheme . If there is anyone out there who is willing to do so we would appreciated any help you can give us ? We hope to arrange another public Friends meeting before Christmas when we can update members on the progress to date and hopefully have some input from the airport management as well . Once confirmed the date will be publicised on our website and new members would be welcome .
We also appreciate helpful comments and suggestions rather than snide sarcastic ones because at the end of the day we are just doing what we can to support our local airport .
Thanks for your time .

[paarmo]

Well said DTVAirport. Sometimes when I look at this thread I am amazed at the ignorance of some of the Posters. Peel have not been the best thing to have ever happened to Teesside Airport and some of their strategies in previous years have been absolutely suicidal but they have recently stated that they are in this for the long term and will continue to operate as an airport. Until someone has some evidence to the contrary then perhaps they should " shut up or put up ".
If as it appears you have contacts with management perhaps you could get them to do another renaming back to Teesside ( or Parmo International which is my favourite obviously. )Wouldn't it be good publicity to rename it on the day of the airshow.

[DTVAirport]

paarmo - to be more specific, Peel Airports Ltd have not been the best thing to have ever happened to Teesside Airport, whereas Peel Investments (DTVA) Ltd - if they continue on their present track - could be!

[SWBKCB]

interview with the new Commercial Director - all good sensible stuff, apart from right at the end.

Sky's the limit for Andy (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/spotlighton/10054388.Sky_s_the_limit_for_Andy/)

[highwideandugly]

Poor day yesterday for DTV and the fog..only one scheduled arrival all day and one departure..my query is (and it may have been covered in the past-sorry) if the passengers have already gone through security etc and the aircraft diverts like the Thomson yesterday..what happens to the departure fee they have paid? Do they get it back immediately or do they have to claim?

[Northbound A1]

Come on DTV do tell us all, what happens to the £6 tax already paid??

How many other international airports impose a £6 passenger tax just to use an airport?

Does the £6 include VAT?

:mad:

[Northbound A1]

What happens after the airshow if it happens, and lets hope it does.
Will Peel want any passengers to use the airport like they busy days of 2005/06?

Peel appear to have run DTV into the ground from what I can see when I pass through it each month.

Any news of ANY new routes? or are all the airlines staying away because of Peel's involvement at DTV?

Surely if the rates were cheap enough the operators would use the place. Why arent they?

[mercurydancer]

DTVairport

Unfortunately just telling people who use this site to p*** off is impolite, but I expected it.

If you havent noticed, most of us passengers have p***ed off to other airports.

i dont want MME to fail, but it remains one of the most awkward annoying and expensive airports to travel to. It has a lot of work to do to get both passengers using it and airlines using it.

[DTVAirport]

mercurydancer, my comments were not aimed at the passengers, nor am I speaking on behalf of the airport or have any official connection with it. My comments were aimed at the minority who spoil this thread, most of the people in question probably being from the north of the region and therefore biased towards NCL - and when you peel back the layers all it comes down to is they're scared of a little competition because they can see the potential the place might have if the effort gets put in (and as of late a significant amount of effort is being put in).

Yes you're right most of the passengers have p***ed off to other airports as you put it, but luckily for DTVA, the vast majority of them will happily return without a seconds hesitation when the routes come back in, which, due to the nature of this industry, will probably be between 2-5 years, but better late than never.

[paarmo]

Awkward airports to travel to?
You obviously haven't travelled to many airports in your time. Airports such as LBA are hidden in locations even the emergency services need satnavs to find. I could name another 20 airports but you get the drift.

[onyxcrowle]

I am not that familiar with Teesside airport but how come it doesn't have Wizzair if it's a peel airport ?.

[davidjohnson6]

Paarmo - mercurydancer has a point about the ease of travel to MME. It is not the most awkward to reach, but if travelling by public transport, the train is all but closed and the bus service is really not great. In October coming from Darlington the only sensible option seemed to be my taking a taxi. Having said that the cabbie was a nice bloke and had an enjoyable chat with him on the way.

[rpmac]

Paarmo
I find LBA very easy to get to and friends in Scotland said the same.

[Jamesair]

It did have Wizzair, then they withdrew the route.

[Lancelot37]

I agree with paarmo (http://www.pprune.org/members/188406-paarmo) it's easy to get to DTVA. Take a look at a map. Trains will soon be stopping there again and road links are good.

If you think that LBA is easy to get to, try driving from Teesside. Once you leave the A1 it's a slow drag.

NCL can be a pain in the neck if you choose the wrong time, dawdling past the Metro Centre. For the NCL to DUB Emirates flight, even though it leaves after mid-day, we choose to go the night before and stay in an hotel for that night rather than risk it on a January morning. Snow brings the area to a standstill.

[johnnychips]

Trains will soon be stopping there again

Have you any info on that? It's not very easy to get from the station to the terminal.

[SWBKCB]

I am not that familiar with Teesside airport but how come it doesn't have Wizzair if it's a peel airport ?.

1. It used to have, but was dropped;

2. if you're referring to the recent Wizz deal with LPL and DSA - it's not a 'Peel airport' - ownership discussed at length on earlier posts.

[LTNman]

Have you any info on that? It's not very easy to get from the station to the terminal.

I was just thinking the same. The station is so near yet so far. No facilities just a bus shelter on one platform only so it is not very inviting for what is a bleak windswept location

[NorthSouth]

it's not a 'Peel airport'OFGS do you really think some accounting wizardry about Peel this that or the next thing makes it radically different? It's more Peel now than it's ever been.
NS

[SWBKCB]

NorthSouth - I'm referring to the recent LPL/DSA Wizz deal. MME is no longer under the same management/ownership as these airports, so not part of that deal.

[Robert-Ryan]

We were conned with regards to Wizz, by all accounts Wizz wanted to put more flights into us but Peel wanted them into DSA and so would only negotiate for that airport.

[N707ZS]

The ploughs used to be leased in from an agricultural company so not owned by the airport.

[NorthSouth]

Thats the problem at DTV, Peel dont want the trafficSo which is it - SWBKCB's "DTV doesn't get the traffic because it's not owned by Peel", or Northbound's "DTV doesn't get the traffic because it is owned by Peel but the Peel management don't want the traffic to go to DSA"?
NS

[highwideandugly]

Think we have more equipment this year as DTV reports you cant see the aircraft for the ploughs?

Snow not always the problem though as airport was closed for 5 hours a couple of mornings ago due ice...Costs money to deice so wonder what the budget is.

I think Cobhams sent a couple of aircraft to Newcastle last Xmas as well as the falcons to Bournemouth.It will be interesting to see what assurances the owners(?) have given them this year re availability of services?

[SWBKCB]

So which is it - SWBKCB's "DTV doesn't get the traffic because it's not owned by Peel", or Northbound's "DTV doesn't get the traffic because it is owned by Peel but the Peel management want the traffic to go to DSA"?
NS

I was merely pointing out that why MME wasn't part of the DSA/LPL deal - it's a non-story for MME.

The Peel/Wizz/DSA story is ancient history from before Wizz pulled out of MME - wasn't that pre-Baby?

[SWBKCB]

and possibly a bit more relevant piece of 'news'

Lifeline for plans to create 1,500 jobs at Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news_all/10090848.Lifeline_for_plans_to_create_1_500_jobs_at_Durham_T ees_Valley_Airport/)

[davidjohnson6]

1500 jobs sounds an awful lot. Can anyone with good knowledge of the project (that means more than just read the local newspaper) comment on proposed job creation numbers and how these will be achieved ?

[Dairyground]

"Durham Tees Valley" has always struck me as a misleading name for Middleton St George, suggesting somewhere up in the hills near Barnard Castle, rather than industrial Tees-side.

Would a rebranding to "Middlesbrough International" or "Stockton and Darlington" attract more punters?

[JKKne]

Newcastle Airport had 'Diverted to Teesside' on its screens yesterday.

The newly approved road upgrade of the Western Bypass will greatly improve things around the Metrocentre for travel to NCL which isn't the hardest to get to imo.

Metro is pretty hassle free

[CabinCrewe]

Would a rebranding to "Middlesbrough International" or "Stockton and Darlington" attract more punters?

No

[Northbound A1]

Re "Would a rebranding to "Middlesbrough International" or "Stockton and Darlington" attract more punters? No"

How about turning the clock back to the pre Peel days of ten years ago and handing it all back to the 6 councils for the £500k peel paid for DTV.

Teesside as most people know it had survived since then 1940's untill peel got involved like the Sheffield Airport episode.

Whats the worst that could happen if the councils did take DTV back??
At least the public would still own an airport and ALL the land which might attract a few more operators if Peel were out of the picture.

I'm not anti Peel as a company as some may think, its just what they have done to a good regional airport which I've used for years.
Its been run into the ground.

As for the name rebranding how about good old Teesside :ok:

[Lancelot37]

Teesside International Airport is the workable title. It gives the airport an immediate lift.

We can't put the clock back by saying they should never have changed the name but we can move it to a higher class.

[davidjohnson6]

Northbound - without wishing to be rude, you're suggestions are not evenly remotely likely to happen.

Peel is a private company. It is not going to surrender the airport for anything less than its current market value. Peel is a company run for profit for the benefit of the shareholders. The people who live nearby and the local Govt are utterly irrelevant in terms of in whose interest Peel acts. The main shareholders in Peel do not give a toss about people living anywhere nearby Middleton St George.

Teesside used to have a thriving commercial base, including manufacturing / heavy industry. Much of this has gone. Without this hive of commercial activity, there simply isn't the need for as many flights. China in the 1950s was run by Mao, followed by the cultural revolution. China has now woken up and makes goods more cheaply and more efficiently. China is not going to go away. Nor will India. Nor will Brazil. Globalisation has its winners and losers - places like Middlesbrough are in the group of losers.

Rebranding as Teesside will cost significant amounts of cash. The people who live near MME know all about the airport. How it's branded won't significantly change local knowledge. The purpose of the rebranding to DTV was to persuade people elsewhere to fly into DTV rather than NCL, simply because many of them had heard of Durham but had never heard of Teesside. Rebranding again from DTV to Teesside will cause plenty of confusion for people outside the UK but have very little benefit in bringing in more passengers. Why should Peel shareholders bear the monetary cost of rebranding again and also risk losing some passengers because of confusion over the name, just to warm the hearts of a few thousand people many of whom probably rarely fly out of MME anyway ? Remember - major shareholders in large companies do not care about nostalgia and people's sentiments like supporters of a football club - shareholders care only about risk, cash and profits.

[Robert-Ryan]

There seems to be some confusion regarding the ownership of MME, so I'm going to try my best to explain things:

When Peel Airports Ltd first purchased the airport, they did so under the impression that DSA would not receive planning permission. When DSA did get the go-ahead, they changed their focus for MME from a commercially viable airport to a significant land development opportunity and as part of this ran the facility into the ground.

After several years of doing this, at some point they realised they couldn't achieve their goal for various reasons one of which was due to there being deeds on the land which specify it can only be used and developed for aviation-related purposes.

This is where Vancouver Airport Services came in, Peel decided to get shot and sought a partner to take a shareholding in their Airports division with the view to letting said partner take full control regardless of how much or little of the division they bought. Unfortunately for us, VAS only wanted Liverpool but they had to take us on along with DSA as part of the deal. So back to square one.

VAS then went about reducing the overheads at the airport which included making staff redundant with, on hindsight, no intention of developing the airport thereafter. Vancouver eventually decided to get rid and placed us up for sale.

Peel Airports Ltd running us into the ground damaged the reputation of the wider Peel group, contractors are/were reluctant to do business with them because of the way they treated us. The Chairman and majority owner of the top/main division Peel Holdings Plc, John Whittaker, decided the best way to reverse this was to buy back MME and try to build it back up again, so he did under a new Peel subsidiary and current owner Peel Investments (DTVA) Ltd.

The advantage we have now is we are much higher up the Peel tree than DSA and LPL. The active problem we have now though, is that Peel Airports Ltd are still dragging us down. When MME got rid of it's Information Desk, as well as various other services, they went to LPL, who charged us a fee at the smaller end of the five-figure range which was apparently cheaper than having it in-house. When the takeover went through, the :mad: tripled this to the higher end of the five-figure range. Things like fire alarms and door control and electrics and all sorts of other utilities are operated by DSA and LPL and this is a big problem which "our" Peel are in the process of bringing back in-house. In short, we may now be separate to DSA and LPL, but they're still pulling our strings for a little while longer. This is where Andy Foulds and a new Property Director who has also joined the team come in, they're all part of a wider strategy to get MME back on it's own two feet.

If you look hard enough you can now see effort being put into the place. Back in the spring a six-figure fee was spent on revamping and repairing the terminal, anyone who's driven past Hangar One in the last few weeks will have seen the work being done on that, also six figures (they are also boasting about spending a large amount of money on a new X-Ray machine, but they were legally required to buy it and had no say in the matter so this doesn't count). Staff morale, which was at rock-bottom, is also on the rise and most significantly, airlines are said to be willing to talk to us again whereas when Peel approached them in the past, they simply didn't want to know. I've also heard a couple of reports that airlines have actually approached Peel first recently, rather than Peel going to them.

Nothing happens overnight in the airline industry as you all know, as DTVAirport mentioned you're looking at a couple of years rather than a couple of months before any new airlines and routes appear. But as we go back on the up again NCL heads in the opposite direction. OK fair enough we'll never ever overtake them, but look at the routes they've lost in recent times, look at the debt they're in, a debt that will get called in should there be another black Friday then they'd really be screwed.

There's a long road ahead but things are stabilizing.

[SWBKCB]

But as we go back on the up again NCL heads in the opposite direction. OK fair enough we'll never ever overtake them, but look at the routes they've lost in recent times, look at the debt they're in, a debt that will get called in should there be another black Friday then they'd really be screwed.

R-R, It was all going so well, and then the masked slipped '...heads in the opposite direction...' '...routes they've lost in recent times...' '...a debt that will be called in...' - really??

[North West]

When DSA did get the go-ahead, they changed their focus for MME from a commercially viable airport to a significant land development opportunity and as part of this ran the facility into the ground.

Complete Nonsense. The catchment area simply isn't strong enough to support services in an environment of high APD, high fuel and declining real terms disposable incomes. When airlines become risk averse, they pull back from marginal markets and consolidate around bigger ones. Small airports are always the first to feel the brunt of economic downturn and the last to feel the benefit of an upturn. How many Teesside like airports in the UK (not owned by Peel) have followed the same pattern ?

[Robert-Ryan]

North West - what you describe likely would have happened yes, but all that came three-four years after DSA got the go-ahead, so my comments still apply.

SWBKCB - It's true and obvious and you don't have to look very hard to see it. Looking at where you've listed as your location you were always going to react like that, regardless of right or wrong.

[johnnychips]

Don't know the politics of, in the past, Wizz being offered preferential terms at DSA over MME, but in pure marketing terms, a lot of Poles live in Doncaster in particular, and South and West Yorkshire in general. And Wizz got in first before FR started competing from EMA and LBA. That's why I'm pleased a new agreement has been signed between Wizz and DSA, as I thought the competition may have diluted the market.

I have no idea how many Poles live in the MME catchment area, or the North-East generally, or if the competing airport at NCL offers flights, sorry.

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB - It's true and obvious and you don't have to look very hard to see it. Looking at where you've listed as your location you were always going to react like that, regardless of right or wrong.

Sorry, most of your post looked plausible but I've never bought the "Peel want to run us down so they can use the land for development" line. As somebody has said previously, if you shut the airport all you've got is another industrial estate. Sure Peel is interested in developing the land, but it is more valuable/attractive to them with an airport there.

However, to say as we go back on the up again NCL heads in the opposite direction is nonsense and undermines the credibility of the rest of your post and comments about Peel and its behaviour. MME has stabilised (and I'm glad to see it), but stopping the decline isn't the same as being on the up. And on what basis is Newcastle on the decline? Routes come and go as airlines react to the market, but off the top of my head I can't think of any significant reductions or airline customers who have left. And the debt comment is just nonsense - large company borrows money shock, where's the story? Perhaps we should say that MME is still on the decline as it needs government hand outs to fund the southside development - equally nonsensical.

[N707ZS]

In the end nothing new came from the last two days posts.

[Robert-Ryan]

OK I'm man enough to admit a couple of mistakes - firstly, yes MME has only stabilised and is not on the up, but based on what I've seen in recent months they soon will be.

As for NCL heading in the opposite direction, well, it's an accurate statement but it's putting it a bit strongly, yes they've lost a lot of route but it's less noticeable given their size to begin with.

Yes if you shut the airport all you've got is another industrial estate, but at the time when they were driving us into the ground, another industrial and/or housing estate was a plausible and commercially viable opportunity, luckily for MME, that changed very quickly!

[North West]

They weren't driving the airport into the ground.

You're someone looking for an elaborate conspirancy theory when the common sense explanation is staring you in the face. The catchment area is simply not strong enough to support profitable operations in the face of

1 pressure on employment and disposable incomes
2 APD
3 $1000 p/t fuel
4 lack of risk appetite and new start ups in the airline business becaue of 1,2, and 3

[Robert-Ryan]

They were driving the airport into the ground because they even now admit it themselves. I wish you could do a poll on these threads, I'd like to know just how many people would vote for 'they were driving it into the ground' over 'they weren't' - a vast majority I'd bet.

I can assure you I'm not looking for a conspiracy theory as I hate them.

The points you raise make it very very difficult yes, but I don't believe for one second they mean the airport doesn't have a viable future.

[NorthSouth]

RR:When Peel Airports Ltd first purchased the airport, they did so under the impression that DSA would not receive planning permissionReally? So they invested all that money in buying the place off the MoD and putting the case for the airport together, in the expectation that it would get refused - and that they would also fail at any appeal? I don't think so!
NS

[Robert-Ryan]

It's not as impossible as you suggest, I guess something they hadn't anticipated spooked them during the planning process?

[paarmo]

DJ6... Teesside still is a massive manufacturing area contributing nearly 10% to the GDP of the UK. 90% of this is exported. Teesport is expanding every year and infrastructural development in the area has never been as busy despite the recession. I am not saying that this will have a direct effect on Teesside Airport but please give credit where it is due and do not class Teesside with many of the failing areas in the UK.

[NorthSouth]

Teesside still is a massive manufacturing area contributing nearly 10% to the GDP of the UKInteresting. That would make the ongoing woes of DTVA particularly hard to explain. But UK GDP in 2011 was £1440 billion. According to the NE Process Industries Cluster (NEPIC), GDP in the whole of the North East England was £38.8bn. That's 2.7% - and that's for the whole of the NE, not just Tees-side.
NS

[Lancelot37]

You say "GDP in the whole of the North East England was £38.8bn. That's 2.7% - and that's for the whole of the NE, not just Tees-side."

In a publication today the figure of just over £14bn was given for Teesside. 10%

[LGS6753]

Lancelot -

£14bn of £1440bn = 1%, not 10%. :uhoh:

[Lancelot37]

Oops, must take more water in my whisky! I'll close the door as I leave. Hic.

[Northbound A1]

Robert, that was an interesting article and I can see what you mean.

I wondered if Hangar 1 was being refurbished because of the asbestos problem with it, or is it because Sycamore have moved out of Hangar 4 into 1 being airside?

Lets hope they do turn DTV around, granted I'm sceptical with the Peel/VAS history of running it, but onwards and upwards hopefully.

The new DTV commercial director Andy Foulds comes from the port of tyne authority according to this article.
Routes News - Durham Tees Valley Airport has hires new commercial director (http://www.routes-news.com/on-the-move/item/784-durham-tees-valley-airport-has-hires-new-commercial-director)

[davidjohnson6]

Northbound - do try to keep up - was reported in the Echo and on this thread 4 weeks ago

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/383785-durham-tees-valley-airport-5-a-116.html#post7516159

Durham Tees Valley Airport appoints new commercial director (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10042155.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_appoints_new_commercial_ director/)

[N707ZS]

Hangar 1 can be airside or landside, so you can put complete aircraft in the airside end shut the airside doors and take scrap metal and parts out of the front.

[Robert-Ryan]

The work was to make safe the asbestos in the roof, but I believe they've done a few other improvements for Sycamore.

Incidentally, speaking of which, word going around the airport is that they're about to receive up to six aircraft belonging to a recently deceased British loco and/or an A300 of some description.

[Northbound A1]

DJ6, thank you for that, I must do better :O

Yes I'd noted the earlier thread, but the new director had a large spread about his background and DTV in the business part of the evening gazette last night.

There was no web link to the article, but I'd noted he was from the Tyne port authority.

Good to see Peel removing the asbestos. Are all the hangars now listed buildings which someone once mentioned?

[David Thompson]

"Are all the hangars now listed buildings which someone once mentioned?"

No the hangars are not listed buildings . None of the remaining wartime buildings are listed though a few appear on the CBA Defence Of Britain database . However as a slight claim to fame I belive that Hangar 1 , a C-Type hangar , was the last of it's type to be built and that Hangar 2 , a J-Type hangar , was the first of it's type to be built ?
The work on and around Hangar 1 is certainly good too see and probably quite a financial investment by the airport too .

[highwideandugly]

I suppose we are all still a little cynical as to what Peel airports have in store for us.Could I make a suggestion...

Yet another another full days traffic lost yesterday(all KLM flights operated from Newcastle) First landing not until 8 last night !!

A real statement of intent would be for Peel to put a CAT3 ILS system in, thereby showing the airlines they mean business and are here for the long run ???

I know the cosmetics help but this would be the real test of their commitment:D??

[NorthSouth]

DTV already has ILSs at both ends with two alternative procedures if the ILS is out of action. The number of times a CAT II decision height would get the aircraft in where CAT I wouldn't will be infinitesimal.

On that basis no airline would change their decision-making on whether to operate to DTV on the basis of, at most, a handful of days a year.

As regards CAT III, that's just cloud-cuckoo land. You'd have to be seriously in the market for high-frequency flights by airlines that have CAT III capability before that would look remotely attractive - Eastern? I don't think so. KLM F70s? Maybe, don't know. Bucket and spade charters? Forget it.

DTV is already an extremely well-equipped airport. The facilities aren't the problem. It's the demand.

NS

[highwideandugly]

demand yes that is the problem..but my argument is if Thomson or ryanair wanted to operate without restrictions guaranteed through the winter they couldn't..could they?


to your text..alternative to ILS is not as good..so that's not much use?

i seem to remember one of the criteria for the BA shuttles to Scotland was the availability of cat 3 ILS ?

bucket and spade charters ?? most aircraft these days I think can fly cat3 ils..you do these guys an injustice!

really though its investment..remember...build it and they will come...

[davidjohnson6]

Cat III will cost a big pile of cash. The owner of MME will treat capital expenditure the same way as an investment. Will it give a suffiently large return in terms of extra income from new airlines and passengers ? Could a better return be achieved by investing in shopping centres or other forms of property development ?

Only if Cat III at MME is a really compelling investment for the future profits of Peel Group will MME get the money.

[onion]

Putting a CAT III ILS in at MME is just not worthwhile! True the instances of fog have increased since the Tees Barrage was installed but generally MME fairs well with fog and similar weather. On the other hand if you re wanting to spend money on equipment to keep MME open during adverse weather put it into keeping the runway clear of snow and ice.

[Get me some traffic]

Onion has hit the nail firmly on the head. Upgrade to Cat II maybe but not Cat III (yet). Runway decontamination is much more important.

[DTVAirport]

I'm sure the airport would install CAT III ILS if someone wants to give them the £20 million odd it would cost to install!

Also, demand is not the issue, airlines pulling back to the large hubs is the issue.

[No-More-Bullschit]

The airport has plenty of equipment to de-ice / snow clear, it's just the new users of said equipment don't know how to operate it since the people who did were amongst those made redundant.

[Wellington Bomber]

high wide and ugly

What a crock regarding BA and cat3

Aberdeen is cat 1 full stop, end everybody goes there, ba,ez,kl,lh,af

so why would mme with 7 flights a day get it

[highwideandugly]

Talking about the introduction of shuttle long before aberdeen..sorry to upset you .Gla,EDi, BFS and Manc.
Maybe someone with more knowledge than we two could confirm or deny?

Fact remains I am talking about commitment that would show peel mean business or are they happy to lose all traffic even if only occasionally?
Notice the Falcons haven't flown much recently are they stood down for xmas?

[N707ZS]

No one mentions the gained traffic due to bad weather, at the moment hangar one has got 6 hawk refugees from Leeming. Even Ryanair and BA have diverted aircraft in from Newcastle.

[NorthSouth]

hwau:one of the criteria for the BA shuttles to Scotland was the availability of cat 3 ILS You've answered your own question. When BA tells Peel that it wants to operate high-frequency, high-yield flights between Heathrow and DTV, maybe you'll get your Cat.III.
NS

[North West]

really though its investment..remember...build it and they will come...


They did come....and then they left. bmi baby, Globespan, Ryanair, Wizzair.....

They didn't leave because of ILS issues and they weren't forced out by Peel. They left because passenger volume x seat yield less costs was not adequate.

In the right economic environment, in the future, that may change. At the moment, there are less risky bets to take than airports like MME.

[mmeman]

I am hoping that the flights just have not been loaded, but there is a very polite message on the Thomsons website that they don't fly from Durham Tees Valley in Winter 2013/2014. Certainly cant book to Tenerife or Alicante.. massive blow if it stays like that.. Is that what you meant DTVairport by the airlines pulling back to the big hubs?

Also think Peel pushed Ryanair out with the departure fee..

If Thomsons do pull out, what have the airport to lose by getting Ryanair to start flying from MME again?

[highwideandugly]

moving on from cat3 ils!

as N707ZS rightly reports ryanair and ba diverted two flights last week..so they do know we are here!! Not sure why RYR was on the ground for hours though-tech?

unfortunately..we have lost a massive amount of klm flights(and Eastern) in the meantime so a net loss ? better equipment would have helped(sorry!!) a couple of days have seen almost no movements at all?

i just fear for the first proper snow......

[David Thompson]

The Friends have organised a Christmas get together this Wednesday , 19th December at 7pm in the Flyers Bar of the Teesside Flight Training building down by Hangar 3 , the old Wings Bar .
There will be a report of the progress of the Friends to date plus an update on the 2013 airshow . It's an open-house meeting and all are welcome especially anyone interested in getting involved in the airshow planning . For an indication of attendance or further details please email ; informationATfodtva.co.uk replacing AT with @ .
Thanks

[OldManJoe]

Oh you do make me chuckle HugeWideandUgly. You come on here and spout crap about the need for CAT III ILS. Take a look at the CAA documentation for CAT III and see exactly whats needs. That's a bloody big investment for a few flights a year. I take it you don't run your own business or work in an accounts dept. The spouting is what you see from shop floor workers who don't have a clue about business management.

As for the Cobham Falcons, they fly when they are tasked by the RAF. They don't go out and fly for fun, they fly on missions to support the RAF and they are at their beck and call. If the RAF are not training, the Falcons are not flying!

Improving the runway decontamination when we have ice and snow could be improved. Hopefully we may see an improvement this winter now that Peel are serious about DTVA. Very different from the days of Peel and Vancouver.

I see there is a Friends get together on Wednesday. Might just pop along and see what it's all about. Maybe a few on here could channel their energies into helping the Friends Group. If some give as much effort as they do on here then the Airshow would be one of the best. Maybe we could have some balloons as there's plenty of hot air available to keep them afloat for a very long time.

[highwideandugly]

have we finally turned the corner?? Great November figures....Aberdeen and Amsterdam showing increases...

[Jamesair]

Don't forget that half-term was in October last year and November this year, that would skew the figures a bit maybe.

[David Thompson]

Just a reminder , all welcome ;
The Friends have organised a Christmas get together this Wednesday , 19th December at 7pm in the Flyers Bar of the Teesside Flight Training building down by Hangar 3 , the old Wings Bar .
There will be a report of the progress of the Friends to date plus an update on the 2013 airshow . It's an open-house meeting and all are welcome especially anyone interested in getting involved in the airshow planning . For an indication of attendance or further details please email ; informationATfodtva.co.uk replacing AT with @ .
Thanks

[Robert-Ryan]

I see "Peel Group" have bought back Doncaster from "Peel Airports", giving Vantage Airport Group (formerly Vancouver Airport Services) exactly what they wanted in the first place - Liverpool.

I'm not convinced this is a good thing for us or whether it will effect our independence or if DSA will now continue to provide certain services and utilities for us (hopefully not!)

[johnnychips]

or if DSA will now continue to provide certain services and utilities for us (hopefully not!)

Could you elaborate?

[Robert-Ryan]

johnnychips - see my post #2363.

I specifically mentioned LPL but I think DSA also have a hand.

[SWBKCB]

Interesting to see that the DSA announcement says they will continue to take services from LPL

Media | Press Releases | News Release - 20th December 2012 (http://www.robinhoodairport.com/press-releases/news-release-20th-december-2012.html)

The excellent partnership enjoyed to date between Vantage Airport Group and The Peel Group will be extended through long-term service contracts to manage parts of the operation at Doncaster Sheffield Airport, such as Air Traffic Control.

[N707ZS]

Shouldn't this be on the Doncaster thread. No one seems to be saying enything on there.

[Northbound A1]

Rumour has it that an announcement is about to be made at DTV.
Any one on the inside got anything further, or are they waiting for the media to mention it?
Details at the lower part of this article on DTV Movements. Cobham or ??
A Year at DTVA (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/2012.htm)


"Sadly, we've become aware of an unfortunate piece of news whilst writing this article, we're not in a position to reveal it yet, nor is it the fault of the airport, but it's quite bad - not disastrous - but bad enough. If it gets revealed in the media before the New Year it will appear here, otherwise keep an eye on the front page."

[No-More-Bullschit]

Not Cobham no.

It's already been hinted at on this thread though.

[jetstar.8]

Northbound A1

Looks like that bit of text has been removed from "A Year at DTVA"

I Wonder Why

[SWBKCB]

It's still there - at the bottom of the "IN THE NEWS" section, just above the "2013 NEW YEAR MESSAGE" (I've checked as I had seen the page and hadn't noticed that comment).

[Northbound A1]

Jetstar, yes its still there under the piece about the new commercial director.

Wouldn't have thought it was added if something was about to be announced, as the Movement site isn't one to make things up.

Any ideas?

[highwideandugly]

probably/possibly thomson withdrawing from next winter?
but who knows ?

[Centre cities]

I hope that it is not KLM.

Centre cities

[airhumberside]

I hope for MME's sake it is Thomson's winter withdrawal for 2013/14 (the brochures show no MME flights). Because if there is something else AND Thomson's winter withdrawal then put together MME could have a very bleak 2013 ahead

[highwideandugly]

interesting thought from centre cities.

Not mentioned on here but at the same time KLM have chopped more than normal from here( i know they do this every xmas) Easyjet have started their flights to AMS from newcastle .I know (some) the loads have been very good(friends experience on 3 flights) could this be having an unwanted effect here?

just a thought if its them.

[jetstar.8]

Thanks All Found it

[Robert-Ryan]

The bad news mentioned on the movements website is the Thomson news, it's common knowledge around the airport. The reason is said to be TOM are not in a good place financially and as such are consolidating to NCL and DSA (I believe Leeds have/are losing them as well)

KLM are very happy with DTVA.

[North West]

BBC News - 'Strong demand for package holidays' - Thomson boss (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20592856)

Do keep up

[Robert-Ryan]

Don't shoot the messenger!

[StoneyBridge Radar]

TOM are not in a good place financially :confused:

Somewhat early for April 1st, no?

Brand new Dreamliners on the way, fleet overhaul with brand new B738s, very good summer 2012, revamp and removal of seats in some 757s for mid-haul routes like Cape Verde, impressive forward bookings into 2013.

Yup, not a good place financially....:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Perhaps TOM are not in a good place financially should actually read TOM are not in a good place financially at DTV, as the development of LBA and NCL has seen demand for the airport pincered and split between the two, making DTV unviable in the long term.

[North West]

...opening a base in Leeds for next summer as well.

Who fed you this crock of #### Robert ?

[Northbound A1]

If the DTV news is that Thomson are leaving, how many flights will dtv lose per year?

Will that leave KLM, Eastern and Cobham who will be left for 2013?

[highwideandugly]

you ask how many flights? not too many but its the kudos?

really that leaves us with no IT type flights at all? Lots of £6 lost.Maybe its time to fight back and scrap this stupid charge(tax).

in some ways i hope it is thomson and not FRL/Cobham as Im sure they contribute more to the coffers ?

KLM signed a new contract beginning of the year so not them..

[Northbound A1]

They could have fooled me!

Peel site. -
About us - The Peel Group (http://www.peel.co.uk/aboutus/default.aspx)
About us

We invest for the long term. Regeneration and job creation is an important feature of what we do and is reflected in our track record. This long term ethos is encapsulated in our company motto -
determination, perseverance and patience.

Our continuing philosophy is built around recycling capital over the longer term in the regions and communities in which we work.

The shareholders of Peel continue to be committed to plough all profits and shareholder value into these regions and communities, thereby increasing economic activity and environmental and social benefits. :rolleyes:

[skyman771]

Northbound,

The only conclusion to be gained by any amount of rhetoric on this site is that it is hoplessly out of date.
As an example from the same site :-
Durham Tees Valley Airport handles almost 700,000 passengers a year :{

[CP30]

With regards to the £6 passenger tax at Durham Tees Valley Airport,
what happens to this money and does it include VAT?

Who is responsible for adding this tax to customers at DTV?

[SWBKCB]

It's not a tax i.e. nothing to do with the government. Its' a charge for using the airport. Quote from:

Durham Tees Valley Airport - Passenger Facility Fee (http://www.dtvapff.co.uk/)

What is the Passenger Facility Fee (PFF)?
The Passenger Facilities Fee is a charge made by Durham Tees Valley Airport (DTVA) on all departing passengers to help support the continued operation of the airport and to secure its future.

[skyman771]

SWBKCB It's not a tax i.e. nothing to do with the government.
However :-
Although VAT is not chargable on travel such as air or rail fares being zero rated, this does not extend to the DTVA PFF which is standard rated & on such basis then DTV would be accountable for the vat on such revenue. This is backed up by DTV stating that the £6 receipt can be used as a vat receipt.
i.e. a net revenue to DTV of £5 & an output vat liability of £1.....?

[tubtruck]

Came through MME the other day for the first time in years, I was on the TOM from TFS. It was quite a novel experience being only 15 minutes from home once through the airport.

It would be a great shame if the TOM winter flights stopped, we need more not less. My next flight in January from EMA to france, April is from NCL, and as per usual my business class flights to the USA are from MAN, I would be unwilling to book these through MME for two reasons, 1. I would hate my holiday ruined if by the time I was to travel the airport did not exist and 2. I got sick of my bags missing or being on the wrong connection from AMS.

People like myself and my wife are simply not being served by our local airport, I have no problem with paying £6 for the ease of traveling from near home but quite simply there are so few flights we have to look elsewhere.
At least the transpennine express benefits from an annual payment from us to MAN

[TSR2]

Would be gratefull if you would give your honest views on your TOM flight.

Just curious.

[Beafer]

I live next to the airport so have an interest in what happens there.
While out walking the dogs recently I noticed some surveying going on. Have any plans being submitted for building there or are they mapping the ground for another reason?

[highwideandugly]

We were led to believe by some that an announcement would
be made re 'some bad news' in the New year. Nothing forthcoming so hopefully its gone away!!

However...seems a little strange that KLM seem to have...for the moment stopped the third departure to AMS...is that it ? or just Xmas schedules...over to the guys who know

[davidjohnson6]

As 1st Jan was a Tuesday many people in offices took the whole of this week as part of their annual holiday allowance. Furthermore after returning from holiday people usually want a day or two at their desk before flying off to meet customers. Wait until the middle of next week and things should revert to normal.

[NCIS]

I assumed that the announcement was going to be about Thomson - DTV is missing from their online booking for 2014. Mention of KLM cutting back led me to look at Easyjet prices for their new Newcastle to Amsterdam service - picking a random date: Wednesday March 6th 2013 Easyjet were offering a flight for £27-49 at 17-00. On the KLM website for DTV to Amsterdam on the same day at 17-10 £433 was the asking price! Presumably competition on the Newcastle - Amsterdam route will affect KLM at Newcastle, but the northern part of DTV's catchment area will surely take a hit was well!

[Jes]

...over to the guys who know

Why not just look at the KLM website?

[john2408]

HUY had 3 flights/ as normal today, and Tues/Wednesday.. Do we go back to work earler in the Humberside area!!!

[N707ZS]

Presume the rigs don't close down off the Humberside coast. Loads of places on Teesside are shut until next Monday.

[Northbound A1]

Peel profit results. I hope they will be turning DTV into the flagship airport of the north east with all these spare millions :ok:

> News > Robust results for Peel's property and investment arm - Place North West (http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/10829-robust-results-for-peel-s-property-and-investment-arm.html)

What does the DTV chairman think?

[aboveusonlysky]

I think we can assume with the passenger numbers that Peel's profits didn't come from the airport. Just as well they are doing well elsewhere, it means they find a way to continue to finance the losses and DTVA stays open. Imagine if it was owned by a loss making holding company.

[davidjohnson6]

I think Peel might have other potential projects which could with capital investment as well - I very much doubt DTV is the only entry on the "what shall we invest in during 2013 ?" list...

[LGS6753]

One glance at Peel's website shows that they are primarily a property company. They have lots of major property assets, many of which will be huge contributors to their bottom line. I suspect DTVA is a very small and fairly insignificant part of their portfolio.

[Northbound A1]

With Peel profits standing at £55.2 million, do they really need to keep the £6 passenger tax at DTV?

I know its the land that Peel wanted, but if they put these profits into DTV infrastructure and reducing operator costs it may help DTV stay around for another 50 years.

Still can't believe the councils gave the place away for £500 thousand :hmm:

Did anyone announce what the bad news was, or did I miss it again while away in the sand pit?

[SWBKCB]

Durham Tees Valley Airport reports more passengers on key route (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10149136.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_reports_more_passengers_ on_key_route/)

Report on local radio also states that for the year as a whole Aberdeen and Amsterdam are up, but overall figures are down. It appears that there is a core of business users who are making money for Eastern and KLM (as can be seen by the recent holiday period, when this group doesn't fly the airlines don't).

Key now seems to be expanding from this core base or making enough from other activities on the airfield to keep going.

As regards Peels profits, if DTVA can put forward a business case that will give a decent return on investment then they might get some - otherwise its minimising the losses until the ecenomy turns.

[onyxcrowle]

There in May lie the key to improvements n new routes. Model the airport with a leaning toward the business traveller. With all the industry in Teesside and businesses around north Yorkshire. It might benefit from other routes. To places like Frankfurt or Paris. Plus a restoration of the London route . And maybe some more offerings from eastern airwAys. (How about a direct flight to Sumburgh ). The latter surely would work for the huge sites in Teesside. Perhaps it doesn't need to be all about bucket and spade routes !

[SWBKCB]

KLM and Eastern operate what is basically a minimum schedule with their smallest aircraft - is the demand there for anything else? Also business pax are renowned for generating little revenue in the terminal.

[onion]

'Key now seems to be expanding from this core base or making enough from other activities on the airfield to keep going.'

So SWBKCB you put a post up suggesting expansion through the business user and then shoot the next person who follows your point!
Two steps forward one step back! It's also amusing that poeple with a Northumberland/Newcastle location are always the first to put the place down! Yes they are the smallest aircraft in the fleet but likewise there are many routes all over the place that use 'the smallest aircraft in the fleet'
You keyboard warriors love to troll!

[SWBKCB]

God, what a persecution complex!

I meant expanding from that core base of business customers by expanding into different types of airline service or other types of aviation activity (preferably both) rather than cannibalising the existing customer base by introducing competing services - this is obviously enough to keep KL and T3 happy, but looks small (hence the minimum service comments). Even in the good times has MME had services to two continental hubs? And lets face it, there's no prospect of a London service unless there are drastic changes in aviation policy.

Keep up there at the back - engage brain first...

[highwideandugly]

just a thought..looking at the FODTV site and their request for snow clearance help from members..do these guys have clearance to go on the apron and runways? or will they just clear the paths outside the terminal?
How does it work with health and safety etc and security clearances?

Onion calm down I see where the other guy is coming from..

great news on KLM and passengers lets up its onwards and upwards for the next few months ? 3 flights per day will help those figures..

[davidjohnson6]

onycrowle -
Frankfurt - why would Lufthansa want to open a MME-FRA route when even Newcastle can't support a Frankfurt route and has to make do with just a route to Dusseldorf ?

Paris - Air France already operate a Paris route from Newcastle. AF are the same company as KLM. Given the large hub nature and closer proximity of Amsterdam to DTV rather than Paris (Amsterdam is almost 30% nearer) and the fact that Newcastle is not that far by land from Teesside, would a currently weak Air France / Cityjet *really* want to open a MME-PAR route and cannibalise an existing route ? Flybe also do a codeshare on the Newcastle-Paris route as well

London - given the train service from Darlington (every 30 mins, takes about 2h35) to King's Cross, the only London airport I can see working is Heathrow either by BA or with a BA flightcode. With no R3 in sight, BA can make far more cash by using slots to places like Chengdu than Teesside given they already fly to both Leeds and Newcastle.

The only passenger routes I think might work when there's an 800 lb gorilla up the A1, are point-to-point routes. That means either LCCs - perhaps Norwegian, suggesting to Wizz to give it another go or full scale grovelling to the golden harp - or going for holiday routes and charters. Alternatively, perhaps a cargo niche, or some other specialist aviation related activity.

[onyxcrowle]

Out of interest didn't eastern have more routes from ME originally?.
And to say an airport won't or shouldn't get a route. Just because the one up the road has or can't get similar is hardly tge kind of mindset that brings those new routes!.
As for going 'crawling' to certain airports , it's hardly an ideal solution.

[davidjohnson6]

onyx - it would be nice if Delta or United were to open a route from Teesside to JFK or Newark. Alas wishing this were the case is probably somewhat unrealistic. The point of my post was to discuss what I believe is and is not realistic for MME and my reasons as to my opinion.

I don't think routes to London, Paris or Frankfurt will appear at MME for the time being, and I believe airport management would be wasting their time in trying to make such a thing happen.
I believe that increased frequency on or additional beach routes or anything to do with charter airlines is both more credible and more likely to be commercially sustainable for the airline involved. As far as I know, the only scheduled beach route next summer from Teesside will be a once weekly to Mallorca. Core beach routes like Malaga, Ibiza, Alicante, Tenerife, Greece and Turkey just don't appear at Teesside at all throughout the summer.

Traffic for 2012 is likely to come in at around 167,000 passengers for the year - only a tiny fraction more than passed through the airport 40 years ago. For every 1 passenger at Teesside, Newcastle sees 26 passengers. MME has a lot of catching up to do even on the most basics of routes.

If Teesside can rebuild its passenger base over a few years to maybe 300,000 it will then be in a position to start talking credibly about some more year-round scheduled routes.

[Jamesair]

All good points David, I seem to remember that Gill Airways operated a range of routes from MME, including Paris (I think) at one stage.

There will be extreme difficulty attracting airlines of any sort with total traffic at under 200,00 pax annually. Newcastle has been experiencing this problem since its yearly pax figure dropped below 5,000,000. This is the magic figure that seems to attract new operators. It places an airport in a new category of size and growth prospects.

[Get me some traffic]

There was a short time in the 1980s that MME had one more schedule departure a day than NEW. Postcard will vouch for that. However the ratio of charters was 4:1 in NEW's favour. The MME management did nothing until it was too late.
One MME MD is on record as saying that he would never allow locos to use MME as they were a flash in the pan.
Then the council gift the airport to a property developer and are surprised that said company run the business down almost to extinction.
With that sort of management the present situation is inevitable. I feel for the staff who must feel that they are banging their heads against a brick wall.

[SWBKCB]

Agreed - masonic conspiracies? Think its time to put up or shut up, getting a bit bored of the Peel bashing. If you've evidence of corruption, do something about it.

Did Peel receive the BMI millions in compensation for pulling out, or hasn't the appeal been settled yet?

This is a more interesting comment - does anybody know how this case did end up? I've looked and can't find anything.

There was a short time in the 1980s that MME had one more schedule departure a day than NEW.

Also find this a bit surprising - 80's is before my time in the North East, does anybody have more details?

Also, answering my own point - didn't baby do MME-CDG for a while, and there may have been a short-lived stop at MME on the Gill/AF NCL-CDG (or was that HUY?)

[diggablue]

BMI Baby time table 2005 lists 3 return flights per week, outbound MME-CDG WW4883 dep 14:45 arr 17:15 and inbound CDG-MME WW4884 dep 18:00 arr 18:30

[onion]

SWBKCB you are right Gill did operate a CDG from MME for a while and although it didn't last long the service was slowly building up. If my memory is right the figures were in region of 35-40% load factor on the service on the ATR 42 when it was pulled.
Get Me Some Traffic will be right about the schedule departures as if you know of him or postcard you'll know that they are in a position to comment on such things with some authority!
I'm not going to comment on the masons but I will add to the conspiracies by pointing out that Durham Council on a few occasions blocked/tried to block efforts to improve MME! While holding a stake in NCL!!!

[postcard]

GMSTF does occasionally talk some sense!!!

MME did for a couple of years have more UK schedules than Newcastle.Casair ,Genair etc operated quite a network for a short period of time.
However as we discussed many times ,for what ever reason, nothing ever seemed to stick route wise and not for the want of trying,fell by the way side.
I often wondered what would have happened if Gill had set up there instead of Newcastle.

As I see it nothing has changed,NV will always be in the shadow of NT and the future if there is to be one, probably lies in the service industry(FRL Cobhams)scrapping and GA.
The worry will come if FRL or Cobhams loose military contracts through no fault of theirs and a guaranteed 2 million annually goes from inward revenue ?

The aviation industry has changed big time in the last few years and will continue (in my opinion)to contract or remain static especially in the NE of the country,while the London area(and NW) grows.


GMSTF...(hope all well) and stick to the music industry!!!

[highwideandugly]

after the excitement of November figures..its back to normal for December!!

For the year end... movements down 17.9% pax down 13.4% on 2011

Worryingly Aberdeen -14% on last December
Amsterdam +2% good except its only 156 passengers on the month thats what..2 passengers per flight departing or 1 each way...and one of those was my mate who was delayed 2 hours!! So much for the spin from KLM and the airport !!

Not really sure what 2013 holds but Peel must have some very understanding(or ignorant to the facts) shareholders!! unless of course they have other plans......:mad:

[DTVAirport]

highwideandugly - what spin from KLM and the airport? The route is doing well, a 2-3 passengers per flight increase is what was targeted by both parties and my sources tell me it has in fact earned us a fourth daily rotation from April - just a rumour I must add therefore take with a pinch of salt, nor is there anything on the KLM website, but the source is usually good.

And for the umpteenth and final time, Peel no longer have "other plans", used to yes - even they themselves admit that

[Lancelot37]

I still say that, in spite of what some think, that KLM and the airport don't push the flights publicly.

Business people who I know regularly fly across the North Sea to join flights to many parts of the world, but the general public still seem to think that you have to fly from NCL, MAN or even Heathrow.

They need to shout louder.

[Get me some traffic]

Postcard, check your PMs

[SWBKCB]

highwideandugly - what spin from KLM and the airport?

See my post 2450 and press release linked below

http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/corporate-community/media-centre/press-releases/marketing-drive-continues-as-klm-welcomes-passenger-boost

[DTVAirport]

That's not spin that's just news, to me spin is a well covered up lie

[SWBKCB]

A more general definition - more accentuating the positive rather than lying, so seems like an appropriate description

The methods and activities employed to establish and promote a favourable relationship with the public.

[DTVAirport]

Ok then, so you're suggesting they shouldn't do that?! You think they should go out there and say "Well the situation's f***ed but hey let's smile and hope for the best"??

[SWBKCB]

Blimey, what a chippy bunch! Merely pointing out that spinning isn't lying - of course I expect press releases to only include good news.

I'd probably also mention that if they were planning to lunch an extra flight as soon as April, this might be have been a good opportunity to mention it but I'd probably get my head bitten off for that as well.

Getting back to the "news" - another Regional Development fund bid going in (Yes, NA1 - Peels hand back in the tax payers pocket - just thought I'd save you the effort....).

Durham Tees Valley Airport to launch new growth fund bid (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10166192.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_to_launch_new_growth_fun d_bid/)

This is an interesting quote - wasn't the planning permission for the South Side restricted to aviation related businesses, or has that been changed?

Whilst there are a wide range of possibilities for attracting businesses related to aviation support activities, we expect that a likely key element in the development would be logistics services, given the proximity to the A66, leading to the A1 and the national motorway network

[SWBKCB]

All quiet, so just a reminder that it could have been worse - never understood how he managed to get as far as he did (and to the credit of MME, always seemed to keep him at arms length!)


Airline fraudster Victor Bassey finally facing deportation (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10169142.Airline_fraudster_Victor_Bassey_finally_facing_depo rtation/)

[CP30]

SWBCKCB - "MME, always seemed to keep him at arms length"

Isn't that what Peel are like with everyone ;)

[Northbound A1]

Have Peel got any new routes or plans for 2103, or is it a waiting game for the regional fund grant ?

[Northbound A1]

I only ask as they made this cargo announcement about the other Peel airport down the road a few days ago.

Cargo Growth for South Yorkshire's Airport - The Peel Group (http://www.peel.co.uk/news/cargogrowthforrobinhoodaiport)

Cargo Growth for South Yorkshire's Airport
Tuesday, 15 January 2013
Doncaster Sheffield Airport (http://www.peel.co.uk/activities/aviation)is on target to record a three hundred per cent increase in its cargo figures for the year March 2012 - March 2013, bosses announced today.
The airport, which last year boosted its cargo offering by developing a number of strategic partnerships, is forecasting moving in excess of 400 tonnes of cargo by the year end.
Steve Gill, managing director said: "We made a number of decisions last year which have already started to pay off in terms of our cargo offering.
"Cargo is seen as a catalyst for developing the region's logistics presence and putting Doncaster firmly on the map as a can do location and centre of excellence for logistics
"Working with two key operators, who are now based on site at the airport, Anglo World Cargo, experts in the freight industry and Weston Aviation, who have a proven track record for attracting business aviation, cargo flights and ad-hoc charters, we have been able to attract more companies to use this fantastic South Yorkshire facility."
Working in partnership with both these operators DSA is now providing a product that is both facilitating and developing the movement of freight to and from the Yorkshire, Humber and Midlands regions.
"We have one clear objective - to develop a cargo product which will allow the partners, the airport, businesses in the region and the region itself to develop business in this sector.
"This partnership has seen one billion pounds worth of goods pass through the airport in the last six months alone.
"Our facility has already been welcomed positively in the marketplace as a viable contender to other major freight airports within the UK," added Steve.
The airport's Cargo Terminal consists of 50.000 sq. ft. of operational space and is equipped with the latest cargo handling equipment. This, coupled with the airport's 2893m runway, means that Anglo World Cargo have the ability to handle all aspects of airfreight from the smallest parcel to bespoke charters of the largest cargo aircraft, up to and including Antonov-225's.
"Cargo is a real growth area for us and we are determined to build on this success. Future developments such as the Finningley and Rossington Regeneration Route Scheme (FARRRS), a direct link road to the motorway network means that soon the airport will be even more accessible.
"The FARRRS project will add further weight to the proposition and will create a fantastic multimodal facility with road, rail, air and sea coming together.
"We've always seen Air Freight as a major part of the airports strategy and are delighted by our new partners' proactive and dedicated approach.
"Whilst the economy continues to be challenging nationally, we believe we can offer the marketplace a cost effective and flexible solution to moving airfreight in and out of the UK. In addition, we look forward to working with the Sheffield City Region's successful manufacturing and logistics sector to help local businesses export effectively."

[N707ZS]

Northbound, think you should delete this post and paste it on the Doncaster thread. Then you might look as if you are doing something constructive for once.

[teej013]

Just noticed on the BBC Dorset website that 70+ job going at Bournemouth and 6 at DTV by Cobham Aviation Services.

BBC News - Aviation firm Cobham announces Bournemouth and Teesside job cuts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21382414)

Good luck to everyone concerned...

[highwideandugly]

Read that the first FODTV airshow is in doubt due lack of funding.Is this not a good time for Peel to show their intentions and cover the cost? Cheapish ish extensive PR for not a lot of outlay...it would show everyone in the area that they do care about the investment that is DTV ??

Peel name attached to everything could only do them some good and raise the profile of the place? Who knows.

sad to see Cobhams announcement-sign of the times but interesting to see they appear to be going to concentrate on the core aviation business?

On another sour note is the Travelexmoney exchange closed in the terminal now mate was told it was..anyone know?

[SWBKCB]

Thought I heard on local radio last night that somebody had stepped in with the funding for the airshow, but can't find anything on the net - can anybody confirm?

[DTVAirport]

The Travelexchange thing has closed yes, although the ATM seems to still work, not that that makes a lot of difference.

The air show has received a lifeline, there are two possible options, 'long-shots' is the wrong word, 'delicate' is probably the best way to describe the funding situation. Deadline day is Tuesday PM as the RAF need a definite yay or nay on Wednesday so they can allocate assets. It's also worth mentioning that the RAF display teams have suffered heavily this year at the hands of cost-cutting, there will be no Hawk, King Air or Tornado role demo this year, possibly no Tutor either, having said that, the general feeling is civvy display teams are just as good and there will still be a significant RAF presence should it go ahead.

Also, should the funding not become available, the air show won't be cancelled per se, just postponed until 2014.

[highwideandugly]

Tried once before..but seeing as newcastle has lost the service..any mileage in contacting Eastern again >? maybe a code share with SN using the EMB aircraft for a twice a day service? Peel need to contact and up the ante??? if there are circa 5K passengers a month surely profits are there to be made...If newcastle are sleeping now is the time to strike????

[N707ZS]

Wasn't it Eastern that tried Brussels some subsidy from Europe.

The Belgian's started the flights to other airports with Brazillia's.

[highwideandugly]

stop me if you have heard it all before.

On a day that the the only bright spot of 2013 has gone(THE AIRSHOW)

the airport with only not a lot(lets be honest) of snow has closed until late tonight..we must ask the question how can any operator have any confidence in the the operation of the place?? KLM cancelled all flights Eastern operating from Newcastle(who have managed to keep going).

I know we all want the place to succeed but really its time for questions to be asked..

1)are Peel committed? if so..do it now!!!! (commit..not be committed)
2)what plans are on the table for 2013/2014 ?
3)Help !!

[Wellington Bomber]

highwideandugly

The Eastern J41 landed atTeesside at about 2100, just after the airport reopened on the 13th

[inglebyboro]

High wide......

What about a few weeks ago when DTVA remained open & Newcastle was snow closed.......

The snow the other day at DTVA was horrendous, you can't blame the airport for closing when the white stuff falls from the sky as much as it did.

[Skipness One Echo]

It underlines the need for the airport.
We had nearly a million passengers five years ago. The population hasn’t changed and in terms of aviation demand, yet here we are down at 160,000.
The recovery potential is massive.
Is the key point that the five million passengers was not sustainably profitable? Globespan and BMI Baby couldn't get a decent return so I don't understand what's going to be different going forward? Not every local area needs a local airport, this is a uniquely British conceit.

[SWBKCB]

That's one million five years ago...

Points the same though, doesn't matter how many, it won't last if you can't make any money out of them.

[highwideandugly]

the problem becomes operational confidence..who is going to commit to the airport if they cant even guarantee enough bodies(due to cuts) for the right amount of staff or equipment?

its not just snow - mentioned previously has been the ILS-only category 1 , again no one is going to put faith in the airport if they cant guarantee movements 24hrs.

its a chicken and egg situation im afraid? rather then Peel asking for 7 million or whatever for a freight terminal...spend it on operational infrastructure first? Show the region they mean business with this airport while its still possible..:ugh:

[DTVAirport]

Neither bmibaby nor Globespan left MME because they weren't making money, they were. bmibaby left because the airport wouldn't lower their already heavily discounted fees and they later regretted it and Globespan were a Scottish airline that decided, unsurprisingly, that they wanted to concentrate on Scotland.

[TSR2]

Globespan were a Scottish airline that decided, unsurprisingly, that they wanted to concentrate on Scotland.

And Liverpool ... and Manchester, if memory serves me well.

[DTVAirport]

They pulled out of those two at the same time or maybe even before us

[johnnychips]

Not every local area needs a local airport, this is a uniquely British conceit.

Off topic, SOE but haven't you been reading about the Spanish airports on here? :}

[SWBKCB]

Depends entirely on what was applied for and what is granted. The fact that the company applying also operates an airport could be irrelevant if the development being funded meets its objectives.

On a related note, wasn't the planning permission for the South side restricted to aviation related activities or has that been changed.

[DTVAirport]

South side still has to be for aviation-related purposes only, but it wouldn't matter if it didn't as there are deeds on the land that state the airport must remain. Plus Peel boss John Whittaker bought DTVA back from the Canadians with the intention of running it as an airport.

To be honest, this whole conspiracy thing is getting a bit boring now, it's been said time and again that they no longer want the airport for the land (they even admit themselves that they used to)

[Beafer]

So they were not telling the truth before I take it? I thought the canadians didnt want DTV?
I hope they dont put some of the parent companies wind turbines on the site which was mentioned a while ago in the pub.

[highwideandugly]

Just been released and offers up more bad news.

Total pax down 4.8% (12050) for year down 11.9 %

I asked a few posts ago if the Easy jet AMS from Newcastle might have an effect on our AMS KLM figs. ?? the answer appears to be a resounding yes...

Down 12% on last month compared to Newcastle up 17% !!

Spin-KLM-DTV remember?

also a little worryingly the only other route we have to Aberdeen is also down a massive 12%(NCL up 24%) so routes now also identical for passengers carried.

I know we had cancellations(why ?) and poor weather(equipment/staff/wrong type of snow) But we cant always rely upon FODTV..

Look forward to the next installment of Peels plan...

[davidjohnson6]

highwide - yes the MME-AMS route is down 12% during January in terms of passenger numbers, but the number of flights operated is down 17%. This is because of KL operating a reduced service in the 1st week of January and also because of lousy weather later in the month. Passengers per KL flight operated seem slightly increased which is to be expected when number of flights reduces. It is quite possible that come Easter and warmer months, we may start to see leisure passengers transferring custom from KLM to Easyjet at Newcastle

I agree that the increase on NCL-ABZ versus a decrease on MME-ABZ is concerning.

If you look at the Fodtva website you can go through all the records of which flights operated and when, including diversions.

[highwideandugly]

Quote yes the MME-AMS route is down 12% during January in terms of passenger numbers, but the number of flights operated is down 17%. This is because of KL operating a reduced service in the 1st week of January and also because of lousy weather later in the month.

thats what I hinted at..why a reduced frequency..obvious answer..no demand?

lousy weather...again..staffing/equipment to clear or wrong snow?

I know a lot of guys try quite rightly to defend the operation of the airport..my argument is Peel need to put more resources of all kinds in to help these people.Air show would have been a start! They have to show the mean business-no ?

[davidjohnson6]

Jan 1st was a Tuesday. Plenty of large corporates were operating at reduced staffing levels until Friday 4 Jan. The KL schedule resumed as normal on Mon 7 January. Some of the weather cancellations were because of snow at Amsterdam, and flights to Leeds diverted into MME.

Yes, Teesside should have lots of snow kit to show it means business, but for a few days of snow per year, the extra passenger revenues do not justify the capital expenditure, particularly when other airports close as well.

If I wanted to go from Darlington to Amsterdam any date in January or February, my first choice airport would be Newcastle, regardless of how much noise MME make about snow kit - nobody would believe MME's claim of resiliency matching an airport 25 times the size

[pzu]

'major' New Development for DTVA (MME)

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2013/02/19/plan-revealed-to-dismantle-planes-at-durham-tees-valley-airport-84229-32839581/

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

[TSR2]

That's good news for the airport, spotters and local job prospects.

Brings a different meaning to 'one-way ticket'.

Unfortunately, does nothing to increase passenger numbers.

[SWBKCB]

Quote from the Q&A at post 2489:

Isn’t it the case that Peel has no real interest in the aviation side of Tees Valley Airport but regards it as piece of real estate it can exploit?

I wouldn’t deny that we would like to maximise the opportunities of the site and assets around it. If you go into Manchester Airport you see Airport City which has enterprise zone status helping to feed off the airport and invest money back in the airport itself. That is the type of sensible business proposition we want here. To suggest that we would do this at the expense of the airport itself would be incorrect. Our strongest desire is to make the airport successful and we have to make is viable as soon as possible.

This is exactly the sort of thing MME should be doing, attracting as much complementary business as they can to spread the fixed cost base. Passenger numbers aren't everything!

[Richard Taylor]

I agree. Things like scrapping/parting out, engineering/maintenance could bring useful work & revenue to Teesside. If the guy can make it work, don't turn up your nose at it. A diversity of work is a good thing!

[DTVAirport]

I believe the plan is to get more firms like Sycamore and Weston and Cobham etc in, then when they do build passenger numbers back up, they have something to fall back on should it ever go wrong again.

[DTVAirport]

That's me in the photo and I'm not sure I'm happy it being on here but never-mind.

As it goes, we all had a damn good laugh doing it. Us volunteers allowed airport staff to concentrate on airside areas which in turn kept the airport open more than it would have been last year and the work we did / banter we shared with the pax improved their experience no end.

I wouldn't have accepted pay if they'd offered it.

[N707ZS]

Beafer, living where you do you should of gotten yourself down and given them a hand.

Can anyone say how much money airports make per passenger there was talk that some airports make nothing only taking money from shops and carparking.

[pzu]

Already covered in post 2506 above, but also covered in today's (27 February 2013) Northern Echo

Pilot makes a happy landing recycling planes (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/spotlighton/10255185.Pilot_makes_a_happy_landing_recycling_planes/)

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

[Beafer]

The commerical director has given Sycamore a 5 year lease.
Job done then, MME will be staying open for another 5 years I presume?

[ericlday]

'MME will be staying open for another 5 years I presume? '......as an airfield or scrapyard ?

[DTVAirport]

People seem to think Sycamore is going to take-over the whole airport, yeah sure it will hopefully become a fairly big operation, but it's only one operation.

And as for the airport closing, it would be pointless as the site would still look the same in 20, 50, 100+ years time as there's nothing else you can legally do with the land

[davidjohnson6]

DTVAirport - were the airport to genuinely close and permanently lose all ATC, I find it very difficult to believe the land would remain dormant for 100 years - either the freeholder or the council would presumably step in and do something. If action needs to be taken in Whitehall, the Govt in power will act just to show they are helping to reduce unemployment.

[davidjohnson6]

what spin from KLM and the airport? The route is doing well, a 2-3 passengers per flight increase is what was targeted by both parties and my sources tell me it has in fact earned us a fourth daily rotation from April - just a rumour I must add therefore take with a pinch of salt, nor is there anything on the KLM website, but the source is usually good

DTVAirport - you mentioned that you heard that KLM would be adding another rotation. It seems grossly unfair to hold you to something that you stated clearly had no more value than unsubstantiated rumour, but out of genuine interest, have you heard anything more on this from your contact ?

[DTVAirport]

Heard nothing more, looks like the easyJet NCL-AMS route may have put paid to it, having said that I wouldn't consider our route under threat by any means despite the pax reduction, we've competed successfully with LCCs at NCL on the route for many years before now so why couldn't we again?

[fa2fi]

Remind me. Other than the short lived Jet2 NCL-AMS, what LCCs has Teesside successfully competed against?

[davidjohnson6]

fa2fi - from the January CAA stats it looks like the KLM route is largely keeping market share amongst what are likely non-leisure passengers - at least when you factor in cancellations due to weather. Will be interesting in mid May to compare April 2013 against April 2012 and see the views of leisure travellers in the North East

[tigertanaka]

Interesting thread this.

MME is by far my nearest and most convenient airport. I travel regularly with work but MME is consistently £300 more than the same route on KLM from NCL or LBA. Last minute flights are cost prohibitive - a couple of weeks ago I got quoted £1150 for a return economy ticket to Stockholm.

I doubt Eastyjet's new NCL-AMS route is really impacting MME as the majority of customers on the MME-AMS route appear to be flying on elsewhere via KLM. I think a bigger threat is SAS new route NCL-CPH, especially for those flyers going to Scandinavia.

KLM are still generally getting my business but I will only fly from MME if I can book 4 weeks or more in advance to secure a good price.