DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[Mike Tee]

Hi Pug, Probably for the same reason they fly into and out of Nimes and Montpellier which are about 27 miles apart !!.

[highwideandugly]

So where are they? Its been a long time since the sale announcements and there have been non of the expected leaks of information?

No I fear the end cometh.I still think the future is a private(ish) facility retaining the core airport facilities but not the expense of a passenger airport.
That wayy at least the airport is still there and a hard corre of staff remain as and when we see light at the end of this financial mess the world is in!

as an aside I have just got back from a 'city break' holiday and yes I had to use Newcastle.Sorry to say guys it was an excellent experience all round and it was nice to fly from a real airport instead of Pound stretchers warehouse-thats a fact.

[pug]

Probably for the same reason they fly into and out of Nimes and Montpellier which are about 27 miles apart !!.


Inbound tourism? :}

[Northbound A1]

News from the Northern Echo. The Empire meet today on the fate of DTV.

Fate of Durham Tees Valley Airport to be revealed after talks (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9523513.Fate_of_Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_to_be_revealed_af ter_talks/)

[highwideandugly]

in typical modern day management style...drip feed bad news over weeks and then make the announcement last thing on a friday..leaving little time for resonse..and hope it will all go away by Monday!

What is the betting guys??

[taxi_driver]

Its only future is to have a smaller passenger operation and to increase the other activities. That peel have not had the business nouse to realise and follow this tells you all you need to know. They spent the dosh on car parks, silly marketing and signs, should have spent it on Hangars.

Airports on a par with DTV - Norwich, Humberside, Oxford, Cambridge, Southend, Coventry, Manston, Blackpool, all have a varied mix of GA, Maintenance, Paint shops, Training, Storage, Crew Training, Specialist freight, Offshore support, aircraft dismantling etc etc.

:ugh:

[10 DME ARC]

Buster, well said thats what's been happening over the last 15 years.....Airtours....Baby....Globespan...Ryanair..... all disappeared when the deal ran out! As for a 'demand' due to the through put of just under a million in the past, well if you pay nothing to operate you can attract people with low fares!! As for Airtours they offered cheap holidays and doubled the travel agents commission to book MME rather than NCL!!

[DB5]

Peel website shows that the sale has in fact gone through today and the new owners are ...... Peel Investments !!

'Out of the frying pan and into the fire' perhaps despite the reassuring words in the press release ?

[jamier]

Durham Tees Valley Airport has been sold;

Airport Statement

Peel Airports Limited is pleased to announce that it has concluded the sale of its majority shareholding in Durham Tees Valley Airport to Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Peel Group, securing the continuation of operations and business at the airport.

Read more at Media Centre | Press Releases | Airport Statement (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases/2012/airport-statement.html)

[N707ZS]

Peel Investments, so are they going to invest.

Can I sell my garden to myself and make money?

Smoke and mirrors!

[highwideandugly]

Smoke,mirrors,revolving doors you name it we do it PEEL !!

short term great news for the staff and thats what matters.

Long term...well really nothing changes?

Investment = doubtful

New routes = doubtful

development = doubtful

I can see cuts to an already teetering infrastucture and my crystal ball tells me that in a few months time...probably this time next year the headline will be...

"well we tried our best but the good folk of Teesside didnt care"

at the end of the day Peel were not able /didnt have the courage to make a clean cut.. well its their money and shareholders..

[Robert-Ryan]

Gobsmacked - even if it had closed, I thought after five+ years with a continuous question mark over the airports head we were finally reaching a conclusion - now we're back to square one!

Peel had better start showing an interest this time around otherwise the staff need to get together and start asking questions and seeking safeguards.

[SWBKCB]

How long before the Southside development re-emerges without the 'related to aviation' restrictions removed?

[DTVAirport]

I was going to ask what could they possibly hope to build in the current climate then I remembered land is more valuable with planning permission on it - so they could apply to build the worlds largest bouncy castle and still achieve their goal probably.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm rather suspicious of this. Why would a large company want to transfer shares in an airport between two of its subsidiaries ? I can only guess that there is a plan behinx all this which has yet to be revealed - and I doubt it's favourable to increasing the scope of passenger operations at the airport

[Prestonian]

Peel only owned 35% of the previous company. They own 100% of the new one.

[davidjohnson6]

Ok , so Vantage / Vancouver have sold out completely, leaving Peel Group with effectively full control and responsibility. Unless Peel Group and Vantage previously had a fundamental difference of opinion as to how to turn the airport around, I don't see how this helps passenger operations. I can only assume Vantage had had enough of the management time and cost involved and that Peel have a plan for alternate use of some of the land

[JSCL]

Peel has been wishing to invest in providing aviation services outside of just running airports for some time, but VAS disagreed. This comes from a certain someone who recently 'peeled away' from Peel management. DTVA is likely to become a base for a ac maintenance and livery painting company who is based also at Southend and another airport it is named after.

[Northbound A1]

I know you'll all agree that I think the Empire (Peel) are up to no good, but this has to be the best share shuffle I've ever seen!

I had a look back at some of Peels latest statements about DTV and this one is classic Peel spin.
Durham Tees Valley Airport owner confident buyer can be found (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/9420235.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_owner_confident_buyer_can _be_found/)

And another in the Echo on 14th Dec 2011. "STRUGGLING DTV Airport has been put up for sale this lunchtime. Peel Airports Limited has made the announcement today saying the airport "no longer fits its strategic plans".

In a statement, Peel said: "Peel Airports Limited has decided to sell the majority shareholding it holds in Durham Tees Valley Airport.
Durham Tees Valley Airport up for sale (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/stockton/9418878.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_up_for_sale/)

Has this latest U turn because too many MP's and councils are making waves and Peel know they wouldnt get away with the land on the south side without being scrutinised too much?
OR has it just been a clever tax dodging excercise between Peel and VAS who only arrived a year ago and still have the shares in the other Peel airports?

BBC News - Durham Tees Valley Airport's future secured by takeover (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-16989400)
Notice the bit about the new Peel Investment company here:
"Peel Airports Limited has been asked by the Peel Investments to act in an advisory role to assist with the day to day operations at the airport." ????

You dont have to be Einstein to realise that Peel have been found out and they didnt manage to pull off another Sheffield Airport closure :mad:

What now? They rolled the ex baggage handler out tonight on Tyne Tees News to say that the Peel Empire was now going to work hard to pull in the airlines and Peel now had a strategic plan!
Why hasnt this been happening before or am I missing something?
Full Programme Repeat | North East Tonight (ITV Tyne Tees) - ITV Local (http://www.itv.com/tynetees/fullprogramme/)

On the BBC TV news a Mr Nears from Peel appeared!! to say Peel had seen how the important DTV Airport was to the local people, and how the locals had come together to fight a closure...
Aha there might be a clue there ;)

Where was the new DTV Managing Director Mr Gill ? He only appeared before xmas.....maybe he was Santa in disguise, or is he now sat with the other DTV freemasons at the end of Runway 23 to scare the birds and passengers away while they plot their next move! :E

Could the latest Peel spin be another case of broken promises?
Council chiefs accuse airport owners of broken promises (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/archive/2012/01/28/News%3A/9498944.Council_chiefs_accuse_airport_owners_of_broken_promi ses/)

After all a leopard can't change its spots, unless its a Peel leopard of course :hmm:

[david.crosby]

Pug I will answer that. They would put an aircraft there as they have an audience. Also many people would use it. I would say approx 1,000,000 people within a 60min drive from the airport. Many people when looking for a holiday look at the prices. If ryanair had a cheap enough fare at MME people would travel. For instance I traveled From Middlesbrough to Liverpool to fly to reus as it was 250 cheaper to do so. I also done the same to east midlands once. They did a study a year back at east midlands. Before ryanair moved in normally people would only travel 60mins to the airport. Then when Ryanair moved into East midlands it went from 60mins to 120mins. People were willing to travel. MME can attract passengers if the routes were there. Less and less people from the surrounding area would use NCL and Leeds/bradford if MME had the routes. I travel to NCL from Middlesbrough to fly BA to London. If MME had a flight to any London airport I would ditch the traveling to newcastle and fly from my local airport.

I do hope now with Peel investments taking over the airport that they will invest and get the routes. I dont think Peel Airports thought as many people would kick up a fuss about the future of the airport.

[pug]

David.crosby, they had plent of opportunities to base at MME when times were good but didnt. I find NCL a far more likely base for FR than MME.

[fa2fi]

Seriously don't see the point in trailing dll the way to NCL to fly BA To LHR. You could behalf way to London on the train from Eaglescliff or Darlington. Unless of course you are connecting to another flight.

[mmegh]

Give it less than a year before "closure" is mentioned!

[Northbound A1]

MMEGH - you have it in one.

The latest Peel Investment company that has now strangely materialised will run DTV during the summer when the airlines operate, BUT will no doubt hit the councils with the expected dilution notice to obtain as many shares as possible.

What will happen around Oct or Nov when the summer season is over? will it be administration time/closure. Any adminstration wont affect the Peel Plc parent company, as the shares are now held by the new Peel Investment company which is probably a paper work excercise.

VAS/Vantage still own the 65% of the other Peel airports and have ditched the DTV which they didnt want. Adios.

While all this share swapping has been taking place across various Peel and VAS companies. The Peel Plc parent company split the airport LAND across the mddle, and now own the land on the south side of the runway (supposed to be the new cargo centre site, aye that will be the day).

The councils havent stopped this prime land being handed over to Peel Plc!? Who in the council chambers allowed this to take place? Dont tell me they didnt know it was happening, after all they are DTV share holders!

Someone must getting something to allow such practices to take place or is it just a handshake here, and a nod there :confused:

[mmegh]

Someone will be getting a nice bonus when all this is put to bed!

[SWBKCB]

Durham Tees Valley Airport saved, but turbulence ahead (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9525904.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_saved__but_turbulence_ahe ad/)

Couple of interesting quotes:

Asked about potential development of land around the airport, Mr Nears (strategic planning director for the Peel Group) said development was an important feature of any successful airport. He said: “We need to do this in association with the local authority stakeholders.”

Darlington council leader Bill Dixon said the airport had been given a lifeline, and said: “I think the people of the Tees Valley, Durham and North Yorkshire have been given one last chance to get behind the airport, make use of it and keep it.”

[david.crosby]

Pug why would they. NCL you have Jet2.com and Easyjet. It would be better to open a base were there is NO competition.

fa2fi (http://www.pprune.org/members/371785-fa2fi) Because for me I live in Wycombe. I can get a bus from heathrow stright home. The train costs me between 100-120 quid. the flight and transport costs 60 quid. There is an 40-60 saving. Also I love flying and I like to chill in the airport.

[SWBKCB]

Pug why would they. NCL you have Jet2.com and Easyjet. It would be better to open a base were there is NO competition.

RYR don't seem too scared of competition. Using your logical they would have a base at HUY rather than LBA, BLK rather than LPL/MAN, CDF rather than BRS

[pug]

I find a base highly unlikely, however if they scrap the pax tax they.might return, thoigh Im not too sure thats Peels intention.

[paarmo]

I know that this may not be popular but the word behind the scenes is that Peel are in this for at least 3 years.There is no chance of developing the airport into housing/light industry in the short to medium term and that it is better to push hard for at least three years to see what happens. The problem may be how they do that. That is not yet decided.If they ressurrect the airport after 3 years then the development route may be put on ice permanently as there is a view on the board that there may be an easier profit along the air side route.

[SWBKCB]

Which begs the question as to what they are going to do that they haven't been doing already?

The customer base has eroded (i.e. KLM have said that they view MME as needing to consolidate and NCL as a place for expansion) and NCL and LBA have moved ahead in terms of developing their facilities - see this story in the Journal

£3.2m Newcastle International Airport extension is on schedule - Today's News - News - JournalLive (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2012/02/11/3-2m-newcastle-international-airport-extension-is-on-schedule-61634-30308341/2/)

The losses at MME have previously been described as unsustainable and if they are to look to 'push hard' to improve the passenger side they will only get worse i.e a price war with LBA and NCL and improving the present facilities.

I also don't see the end game as being either airport or development - there is plenty of scope for development around the a viable airport facility. As I've stated previously, if the airport closes the site loses its USP.

[HeathrowDictator]

RYR don't seem too scared of competition. Using your logical they would have a base at HUY rather than LBA, BLK rather than LPL/MAN, CDF rather than BRS

Wow, Fiames instead of Bristol...even for RYR that's pushing their luck! I assume you meant CWL :ok: ;-)

-HD-

[SWBKCB]

Yep - meant CWL. And after I'd done so well to not use BPL for BLK...

[N707ZS]

Interesting to see the Northern Echo and the Geordie Jornal produce the same negative Teesside propoganda.

[SWBKCB]

Interesting to see the Northern Echo and the Geordie Jornal produce the same negative Teesside propoganda.

Care to expand?

[Northbound A1]

Peel will never give it 3 years at the losses that they publicly stated that DTV is currently suffering from.
They only have themselves to blame running the place down.
Last month they stated that airports dont fit into their plans.
The latest Peel Investment company has taken over the original shares they say, BUT will the Peel Plc parent company hand the south side cargo area land back to the airport and the council shareholders?

Its all been shoved under the carpet with no mention of the councils enquiring into who authorised the land to be given away to Peel Plc before VAS appeared on the horizon?

Is it legal? If it is can I have a couple of acres at DTV for nothing??
Someone amongst the 6 councils must have rubber stamped the secret deal with Peel Plc, or can Peel just take land without telling the councils and tax payers?

As it currently stands the land on the south side of R23 doesnt belong to anyone but Peel Plc from what I have been told.
Maybe the press or councils can ask some questions on behalf of the tax payers? I wonder if Peel Plc would like to publicly clarify the DTV land issue :confused:

[N707ZS]

A couple of quotes "bumpy journey", "but turbulence ahead". Not so much as airport saved and winter flights are 99% full.

[JSCL]

My take on Peel 'Investments' is exactly that... they will have bought DTVA from Peel Airports on the cheap.... they will invest in my opinion, somewhere between £2-£5m in the airport, then they will look to make a return by selling it properly in 3-5 years time. That is an Investment. It will look good on the Peel Group balance sheet also because they will have bought it.. off Peel Airports for cheap and will likely make a return (as far as the balance sheet is concerned).

[NorthSouth]

No-one's mentioned Vancouver/Vantage. Presumably since it's Peel Airports they own 65% of, they now own none of DTVA? And was this the main reason for the way the sale was done - VAS wanted out, and quick, and the only way for this to happen was for Peel to buy back their share (albeit with a slightly different title on the deeds)?
NS

[skyman771]

Have already written a great deal on this topic & from what I can see then on the surface nothing has changed ! Airport in a mess, hemorrhaging cash nothing on the horizon that suggests any change, coupled with Shaun Woods the Airport Manager, "flapping around" in front of camera's adding absolutely nothing further to what has already been said in earlier statements.
Elsewhere Councillor Jim Beall, deputy leader of Stockton Borough Council, makes comments in the press as to Peels conduct, but perhaps it is he that should have the answers, or worked them out!!, as presumably he has held a position on the board of DTVA !!,
I think that the following comment on the Northern Echo site sums it up from a corporate view :-
Inspector Cluseau :-So the DTV shares have gone from Peel Plc to Peel Airports who sold 65% of the whole Peel Airport Group to VAS. Peel Airports and VAS have now sold the DTV shares to another new Peel company called Peel Investments! BUT while this clever share moving has been taking place, Peel Plc the parent company have given themselves the airport land to the south which was supposed to be a cargo centre. DTV Airport no longer own this land and neither do the councils from what I can make out?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for Peel didn't they make a statement recently saying the airport industry doesn’t fit in with their parent company? Could the latest Peel Investment company just be waiting to claim the rest of the council shares and claim all the DTV land?
Thus in summary all that has happened is an internal move within Peel, who have gone as far as to say that "Peel Airports Ltd" are to act in an advisory capacity (presumably for a large fee:E). As to whether this exercise is merely a tax saving exercise (very likely:E), then who knows but otherwise how has the situation improved, other than to presumably reassure the existing operators i.e. KLM that there actually is a licensed airport in existence to which they can make forward plans.
A complete mess !!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[highwideandugly]

well who knows..lots of valid points made by all..but will we ever know the truth/facts?

Peels reputation over this has taken a massive hit and i suspect really they wished they could have got out earlier and avoided this bad press.

by their own admission they are loosing 10000K per day..how will that be found?
its too late for this summer season,winter is a no go and i'm sure most 2013 brochures are ready for print...plans for which have been formalised and probably discounted dtv again because of this mess? that takes us to winter 2013..you get my drift..we are now into summer 2014 before i suspect any route development of any note..will Peel continue to cough up these massive daily loses with a smile on their face? i think not.

[skyman771]

NorthSouth No-one's mentioned Vancouver/Vantage. Presumably since it's Peel Airports they own 65% of, they now own none of DTVA? And was this the main reason for the way the sale was done - VAS wanted out, and quick, and the only way for this to happen was for Peel to buy back their share (albeit with a slightly different title on the deeds)?
A very valid point, but as with everything about this mess, then there is enough even in your observation to provide the conspiracy theorists with ever more amunition, as you can construe your very valid observation as to the motives behind VAS's undoubted removal from any ownership in DTVA Ltd, in yet another direction, that it suits Peel as IF it ultimately transpires that the Peel group have acquired a beneficial interest in former airport land, then one presumes such a holding would be even further distanced from VAS.
The permutations as to events in the absence of full information, which one is unlikely to obtain are endless. I am now one who has the view that whatever has occoured then the Peel group have unwittingly promoted themselves into the public eye and that "the hatches will now be well battened down" to limit any further unneccessary disclosures.

[Facelookbovvered]

DTVA is/was a great little airport, but with LBA/NCL larger more prosperous catchment area next door it was always going to get squeezed, there was a brief period when bmibaby/bmi were there that it looked like it would have future, but LHR was never going to last post ICI and the Blair Government and baby called it wrong when they had the choice of going to either LBA or MME, they must of assumed that they could hike the yields from MME because no one else was there? but people went up or down the road!

Post crash it will not likely come back in time to save DTVA from closure, the numbers don't add up!

A decade ago fueled on cheap credit and Northern Rocks crazy 125% L2V mortgages, topping up your home loan to fund a holiday or a holiday home seemed to easy to be true, but that's what people did, coupled with oil <$40 dpb flying was dirt cheap, now its $116 dpb plus APD so you need a minimum £40 to cover taxes & surcharges before you add in any revenue for the airline, at a rough guess anything less than £60-£70 before bags is costing the airline and thats one way, so round trip minimum of £450-£500 for four people before holiday costs and thats before you convert your cash to Euro drinking vouchers.

Sooner or later it will close and become another Carisle,put simply there is no need for or demand for 3 airports in 80 miles between Leeds & Newcastle and the locals will be better off with a couple of thousand jobs on an industrial estate, that way at least they will be able to afford an holiday

[skyman771]

Facelookbovvered
Well put & totally agree with virtually all that you have said.
Indeed to add even more rationale to your argument, actually what percentage of the UK population are served by three airports within c.50 miles? Yes given that "down south" they may be bigger, but I would guess not too many people have or indeed need such a luxury !
As the commercial conclusions are a "no brainer", with then without the more sinister side of all this one may as well simply close this thread as there is no activity on the ground & little else !

[N707ZS]

Why not just close all three and travel to Edinburgh or Manchester, the train is available with direct links to Manchester.:hmm:

[mmeman]

Is someone just winding me up or is Cobham about to announce some bad news?:uhoh:

[ncleflights]

NZ707ZS - because public demand exists for services from NCL or LBA where it does not from DTV

[pug]

What have you heard mmeman?

[DTVAirport]

I've said it before I'll say it again, if there wasn't demand for three airports so close together how come it's managed to last nearly 50 years?????

With a little bit of effort by certain individuals DTVA could justify it's existance with great ease.

[Northbound A1]

DTV well said :D lets hope there are another 50 years without Peel :ok:

Whats the news about Cobham?

[NorthSouth]

I've said it before I'll say it again, if there wasn't demand for three airports so close together how come it's managed to last nearly 50 years?????I've said it before and I'll say it again. Public subsidy. In the last 50 years we've steadily moved away from seeing airports as a necessary part of the national/regional/local infrastructure, at least partly owned and funded from the public purse. Now, like everything else, we've thrown airports into the private sector where there are no guarantees that any infrastructure will be left at the end of the process. DTVA's only clinging on because of a substantial bung from the taxpayer in the form of Cobham's contract from the MoD.
NS

[DTVAirport]

NorthSouth, I still feel my previous post still applies.

[Northbound A1]

I did hear a rumour last year about Cobham going to Leeming but thought it may be just talk.

With all the smoke and mirror share deals going on I did wonder if Peel have only bought the DTV shares back because it might have affected the BMI appeal court case if the airport had actually closed?

From the other BMI posts on this thread, I gather that the millions which will be paid in compensation will only go to the Peel Empire and no other share holders.
Could that be why VAS suddenly decided DTV didnt meet their needs? And of course lets not forget the Peel free land grab on the south side;)

Anyone know when the BMI court case is set to meet re an appeal? I feel that may be the time Peel decide they will try and pull the plug again.:hmm:

[VentureGo]

Copied from Derrry Airport thread submitted by NorthSouth and answers previous posts re. attracting Low Cost Operators like Ryanair to DTV - :
[ Quote:]
City of Derry Airport costs ratepayers £3.6m
[The reality of the "Ryanair miracle". Here we have one of the fastest growing airports in the UK, where costs have been slashed, but it can't operate without massive public subsidy. Why? Because Ryanair pays f*** all. It's Michael O'Leary's not-very-secret key to success - offload the costs on to someone else. And if that someone else is the ratepayer or the taxpayer, even better, because then you can rant about free enterprise while hauling the sacks of public money all the way to your Monaco bank account.]

NorthSouth makes valid point, and hopefully New routes can be attracted to DTV on a commercially sound basis.

[NorthSouth]

hopefully New routes can be attracted to DTV on a commercially sound basisCan't follow your logic I'm afraid. I would draw the opposite conclusion - unless you can see the local authorities suddenly finding squillions in their slashed budgets, which they will then rush to stuff in Peel's trousers.
NS

[VentureGo]

You've misread my post - I actually agree with you! Taxpayers should not be providing subsidy to Ryanair, for services that otherwise can not prove a commercial success under normal trading terms. DTV will only secure a long term future with popular routes making a profit for both airlines and airport. Local Authority support is OK to kickstart services and promote business etc..., but eventually the business must be sound for the long term. With Newcastle 50 mins up the road and Leeds not much further in opposite direction, does the need exist for an airport half way between these major Airports. Airlines have pulled out of DTV over the last few years, which can only be due to the commercials not being right for success.

[ConstantFlyer]

If there are no passengers to be had, what about freight? Could DTV become a cargo hub?

[davidjohnson6]

Provisional stats out from the CAA for January

Passengers in Jan 2012 = 12,654, down 23.3% compared to Jan 2011
Passengers from 1 Feb 2011 to 31 Jan 2012 = 186,435, down 18.9% year-on-year

The Amsterdam route had 7,040 passengers in Jan 2012, down 12% compared to Jan 2011

[TSR2]

Provisional stats out from the CAA for January

Dire I'm afraid.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Could be the reason why peel (who said they no longer wanted the airport - because it was loosing so much money) have sold the airport to peel (who look forward to investing). So that passengers would keep booking flights on KLM before they dropped to rediculously low levels. Just letting the average passenger know that everything was hunky dory. Just a thought.

[skyman771]

Airport pax statistics
It would appear difficult to maintain commercial services at DTV if pax figures at these levels are looked at in depth.
What you have is Jannuary daily average of some 114 pax each way on the KL AMS service who make up over 55% of the total pax traffic through the airport.
Now consider the necessary overheads to maintain services, then consider as to whether what if any concessions could be viable / sustainable.
On these figures it is difficult how they can even afford cleaners:{.
As for essential investment in the infrastructure / maintenance, then zero contribution from pax services, where is money to come from ?
Further evidence that the local population do not even make full use of those services that are available, haven't tansit through DTV for some time, but surely it now must not be a too pleasant experience........:sad:

[NorthSouth]

Then again the CAA Jan stats appear to be deeply flawed. No flights at all from Gatwick to USA/Canada? No KLM Norwich or Humberside to Amsterdam? No flights from East Mids to anywhere in Spain? All flights from Humberside, Norwich and Shetland to the oil rigs cancelled?
Some papers left in a drawer at the Belgrano perhaps?
NS

[pug]

HUY figures are often out a bit later than the rest, could be the same for NWI.

[davidjohnson6]

East Midlands, Gatwick, Humberside, Norwich and Scatsta are all excluded from the CAA provisional stats for Jan 2012 at the moment on the grounds that the data is not yet available. Give it a week or two, and Jan 2012 numbers for these airports should become available on the CAA website

[apaul]

Yet more unrealistic political lobbying by the airport. Owner of airport seeks help from MPs (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/campaigns/keepregionflying/9536939.Owner_of_airport_seeks_help_from_MPs/)

[SWBKCB]

Yes, but in 6, 12, 18, 36 months time they will point to all the things they've done and hold their hands up and say we tried our best but nobody supported us...

[mmegh]

SWBKCB spot on! Just going to be another excuse to use! "we asked the government for help (money) but they were not interested, so there was nothing we could do! We had to close!"

[Northbound A1]

I agree, its all a PR excercise now with Peel, and the "put up or shut up" will be the next step with the councils. The london link will never happen.

If Peel do close it, whats the betting the local councils then change their tune and agree to let Peel build anything they want on the empty land :bored:

[skyman771]

NorthSouthThen again the CAA Jan stats appear to be deeply flawed. No flights at all from Gatwick to USA/Canada? No KLM Norwich or Humberside to Amsterdam? No flights from East Mids to anywhere in Spain? All flights from Humberside, Norwich and Shetland to the oil rigs cancelled?
Some papers left in a drawer at the Belgrano perhaps?
Lost as to your point as it has has zero relevance to DTV, whilst appreciating that you are of course not suggesting that DTV's "flights from Gatwick to USA/Canada":sad: are missing!!!, however smokescreens are NOT what are needed in this mess !
Everyone is looking for excuses, which even if presented are now HISTORY, and all that matters is the present & going forwards. Without cash support & I don't see as to why Peel, which in any of its many entities are company's whose main purpose of existence is to try to make a profit for their shareholders, should be treated as a preferential case then the future looks bleak!

[NorthSouth]

skyman:Lost as to your point as it has has zero relevance to DTVPoint was: the stats are provisional. Maybe conclusions should wait until they're confirmed. But I agree with your thrust that the detail of the stats doesn't matter. For DTVA they won't be anything but dismal.
NS

[Northbound A1]

Peel Empire investing in everything but airports :rolleyes:

Pinewood - Film & Television studio facilities from pre to post production (http://www.pinewoodgroup.com/)

The home page Homepage - The Peel Group (http://www.peel.co.uk/) features a sample of what they think DTV will look like in a couple of years? ;)

[Northbound A1]

I noticed Emirates are bringing a 777 to Newcastle.

A poster mentioned a snippet on the NCL thread.
"On a more serious note thats my DTV to Dubai trip sorted...sorry KLM and I'm sure this will have a knock on effect on the KLM flights ex DTV ?"

Councilor Nick Forbes (Leader) of Newcastle City Council was intervied on BBC Look North TV tonight, and says they have lobbied hard to get more routes into NCL.

What about DTV? Oh yes thats right, the Peel Empire management wouldn't talk to the local (ex Cleveland) councils or airport committee recently :ugh:

[TSR2]

"On a more serious note thats my DTV to Dubai trip sorted...sorry KLM and I'm sure this will have a knock on effect on the KLM flights ex DTV ?"

I suppose it all depends on how cost conscious you are. My daughter found that travelling from Manchester via Amsterdam with KLM was considerably cheaper than flying direct with Emirates.

[skyman771]

As someone else has already introduced the subject as to events up the road then my observations are that whilst EK is undoubtedly good for NCL, & probably good for the region in general, there is nothing positive to take at all for DTV. There will necessarily be more pressure on KL who are going to have to hold rates at NCL to attract transit pax, with presumably a two fold effect, competitive pricing at NCL making this operation even more price competitive to DTV thus forcing more migration of current pax northwards. It is of course completely ludicrous to suggest that KL would be in a position to reduce fares at DTV:ugh:
A final & sobering thought, then a bit of simple maths reflects that on a month on month review, one 777 is able to carry c.24k round trip pax p.m. & based on say a target 80% occupancy then at c.19K pax (yes noted there will be "significant" ? improvement come summer) then currently we would still be at a level of 1.5 times the current monthly total pax at DTV!:{

[NorthSouth]

EK is never going to be a serious threat to KL in terms of transit passengers from NCL because they're only in competition for people going to S Asia/SE Asia/Oz/NZ. KLM takes people going to all over Europe and Africa as well as North America.
NS

[mmeman]

Failing Airport? I think not after the A300, MD11, A330, Dash 8, 737, Hawk Tucano, VC10, EC135, Socata TBM850 movements of today! ;) On top of all the 'normal' movements.

On a serious note, it does show what the airport can be successful at, rather than just passenger services.

[DTVAirport]

mmeman - I was thinking the exact same thing! I was photographing most of those movements today and at the time I thought to myself "Don't tell me this airport cannot be successful".

I've been thinking of a way to put this on here all day without being shot down in flames!

[TSR2]

On top of all the 'normal' movements.

So what was the total number of movements today?

No agenda, just curious.

[highwideandugly]

Yes interesting day at MME yesterday.
But hold your breath and think about it for a moment.

In terms of revenue.

The (i suppose) trooping flights were the main item.However..not many passengers and not paying the £6 tax? so landing fees only...couple of thousand each?

Crew training Dash 8 probably nothing
Thomson contract so in the budget already
military pd's almost nothing

a couple of lights...nothing
FRL contract
and dont forget this is a one off.Someone asked how many movements(landing/takeoffs)..well i made it about 50 ish?

Airport say they are loosing 10K per day? well yesyerday I recon they only lost 2K ish!

On a more positive note a little rumour going round yesterday that Lufthansa were coming to discuss a Frankfurt service..any one else hear that? Dont blaim me..blaim the guy in the fish shop!

[david.crosby]

a lot of aircraft movements for once, just to ask do you think the frankfurt service would take off from MME. What kind of pax would this attract to us.Also what kind of aircraft would they use

[JSCL]

If LH arrive, expect a CRJ I'd suggest. LH will serve exactly the same purpose as KLM but the difference being, there's more business going on in Frankfurt than Amsterdam.

[Northbound A1]

According to local MP Mr Wharton, the now defunct "One North East" failed to apply for a PSO grant which has been raised with transport secretary.

Wasn't it One North East who helped Peel obtain the cargo centre (south side) land and paid for the new fence which cut the airport in half?
Is anyone from the ONE board working for Peel now :E
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9558961.Stockton_MP_calls_on_Government_to_help_restore_Durh am_Tees_Valley_link_with_capital/

Speaking afterwards, Mr Wharton added:
“I hope this is something our LEP can explore, it certainly seems to be one possible way of helping to secure Teesside Airport’s future.
It is staggering that One North East let Teesside (DTV) Airport down so badly, their focus on Newcastle at the expense of the rest of the region is a legacy our LEP must now address.”

[DTVAirport]

I find it very hard to believe Lufthansa would come knocking at our door when they already operate a service from up the road.

On a more positive note, there are some staff at the airport who in the past have been super-critical of Peel but have had the takeover explained to them in depth and are suddenly willing to give them a chance. So maybe they have turned a corner?

[david.crosby]

we will have to wait and see if peel have started afresh when we see more traffic arriving into DTVA. Lets hope they can get the right traffic into the airport and make the airport a good airport once again

[apaul]

The MP's PSO suggestion is ludicrous. Links between Scottish islands and Glasgow are hardly comparable with DTV and Heathrow. There's an excellent train service between Darlington and London, plus slots in Glasgow are hardly as scarce and expensive as those at Heathrow.

[SWBKCB]

It is staggering that One North East let Teesside (DTV) Airport down so badly, their focus on Newcastle at the expense of the rest of the region is a legacy our LEP must now address

or alternatively, they've been proved right?

The MPs PSO suggestion is ludicrous.

Yes, but he's got his picture in the paper (again)...

[onion]

One Northeast is a joke, it should be called One Tyne and Wear, or even just One Newcastle!
Currently at least 8 out of the 12 board members are from the Newcastle/Sunderland area or have business/personal interests in the area and the other 4 I not sure on! Plenty of conflicts of interest there!
SWBKCB what I believe the MP is saying is that the One Northeast invested heavily in Newcastle city and the surrounding area to a detrimental affect to the rest of the region and that has had a knock on effect at MME.
If you ask anyone from the southern area of the northeast if One Northeast has been a success and distributed the cash fairly you'll get a resounding no!
For some reason Government believes that the North East is Newcastle and Newcastle alone!

[ConstantFlyer]

There's an excellent train service between Darlington and London

Yes, but most people who'd fly to Heathrow wouldn't be going to London (i.e. central London); they'd be connecting to other flights from Heathrow.

One Northeast is a joke, it should be called One Tyne and Wear, or even just One Newcastle!

ONE has been abolished. As I understand it, there are now two Local Enterprise Partnerships covering what used to be the region of North East England: One covers Tees Valley (called the Tees Valley LEP), and the other covers Tyne & Wear and parts of SE Northumberland and some of County Durham (called the North Eastern LEP).

This reflects the government's regional agenda, i.e. to focus less on physical regions, and more on city regions and clusters of industries in particular sectors.

Newcastle Airport is therefore now free, if it wished, to market itself as the 'gateway to the Lake District' without stepping on the toes of the patch formerly covered by the NW regional development agency. Similarly, Teesside Airport could seek closer links with North Yorkshire.

[NorthSouth]

they'd be connecting to other flights from Heathrowinstead of from Amsterdam which is what they currently do, and from a much nicer and easier to navigate airport.
NS

[onion]

ConstantFlyer I was under the impression it is due to close shop at the end of this month. My points about it a still valid though!

[highwideandugly]

Direct flights back on the agenda to Heathrow.

OK then who is going to operate this previously loss making route today?

answers on a postcard(or possibly the stamp) to your local mp.

[Parsnip]

One north east bashing is fashionable this week it seems.Whartons comments are amusing and, as often is the case with new mps, betray a lack of knowledge of the matter in discussion.Hardly surprising as he was probably still in the lower sixth when One North East launched its efforts to assist the councils in ridding themselves of the previous "developer"s plans for the cargo complex on the south side, the various "ransoms" that were in place and paving the way for the introduction of a private investment which, whether you like it or not , did result in a few years positive progress for the place before it all went tits up in the face of a global economic recession. This thread is obsessed with laying blame at anyones door, past or present directors, Government quangos, local councillors, government ministers, as yet no one has had a pop at the Pope but there's time yet. Theres lots of stuff that happened at Teesside
Airport that wouldnt have happened without One North East as a careful scrutiny over the last ten years papers would remind you. As a REGIONAL development agency they could hardly ignore the interests of the bonnie lads and lasses up the road whilst sinking our money in to Teesside where arguably it had less of a chance of a result.Thats just not how it works.
And the region has still got a nice flat development site where who knows one day some jobs might be created. And wouldn't that be a good thing?

[VentureGo]

Well said Parsnip. DTV failed because of lack of demand.-Pure & Simple! Newcastle International from Teesside is less than the travel time Londoners travel from their city centre to Heathrow. One North East had to do right for the region as a whole (In fact - they did more for DTV than they needed in terms of road infrastructure etc...) Improved surface links to NIA by shorter faster and more comfortable Express Rail & Coach links would be a great start to improve the whole North East Region.

[Northbound A1]

Parsnip, that did give me a chuckle ;)
I've got an idea how to bring in more money.....sell raffle tickets to give the public a chance at getting a piece of the land on the south side which Peel gifted themselves. I could do with a couple of free acres as well :E

As for london flights starting up again...that was funny. There is a saying Mr Wharton, "You've got two hope's......Bob hope, and No hope" ;)

[paarmo]

The perception on Teesside is that ONE was a purely Newcastle based enterprise which would dole out small amounts of aid to the south of the region on a grudging basis. Whether this is true or not is a matter for which set of statistics you believe. Personally I believe there are lies damn lies and statistics so I am happy to go with the perception.
The Heathrow route was pulled not as purely yield based commercial decision but to free up slots at Heathrow. The Court case against BMI tends to support this.
ONE has always promoted NCL over MME for purely selfish reasons that it was the airport that the board members of ONE used on their junkets alledgedly.
Lack of demand?.... Ask Thomson what their yields are for the Winter season for ALC and TFS. The demand is there if the routes are on offer. Ryan and Wizz had routes to Warsaw and Dublin. Hardly repeat visit cities even in the best of times.
Peel took their eye off the ball at Teesside and tried to promote it as a business man's airport and Loco hub. What they got was routes that nobody wanted to fly and the bread and butter charter companies moved out because they were being treated like poor relations.
Hopefully Peel have learned their lesson and will now edge forward with a well thought out and realistic plan rather than pie in the sky.Hopefully they will also employ someone who actually knows what he/she is doing this time.

[Jamesair]

The shortage of slots at Heathrow still applies, even more so today. Slots are desperately needed for new routes to China etc. so any route servicing DTV would be absolutely dependent on the third runway (for domestic flights) being constructed.

[SWBKCB]

The Heathrow route was pulled not as purely yield based commercial decision but to free up slots at Heathrow. The Court case against BMI tends to support this.

Yes - to free up slots for routes that bmi could make more money from - isn't that what a commercial airline should be doing, they're not a social service (and wasn't the court case against bmibaby - how does the bmi LHR route come into it?)


Lack of demand?.... Ask Thomson what their yields are for the Winter season for ALC and TFS. The demand is there if the routes are on offer. Ryan and Wizz had routes to Warsaw and Dublin. Hardly repeat visit cities even in the best of times.

So why aren't TOM offering more flights to more places if they're making so much money at MME? Look at the arrivals/departure board - are all the airlines not listed there wrong or is it all the fault of Peel/ONE/Uncle Tom Cobley?

[DTVAirport]

Thomson left because of Peel only being able to see locos and nothing else, then there's the fact that all charter operators cut back to the major hubs.

Things may well have changed now but prior to the sale farce a seemingly more focused Peel were hoping to get them back for Summer 13.

If the demand wasn't there we wouldn't have had a seasonal based charter carrier for 8 months let alone 8 years or whatever it was.

[OMGitsDAVE]

'Very encouraging talks' have apparently been happening...

Hartlepool Mail: Airport (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/airport-encouraged-after-talks-with-mps-1-4303603)

[davidjohnson6]

2 local MPs make encouraging noises to show they care about the electorate. One is on opposition benches while the other only made it into Parliament less than 2 years ago.

Govt on the otger hand is severely constrained on budget spending and in no mood to look for any more cash hungry projects, particularly in an area which is traditionally Labour leaning

Makes a nice story for the local press but difficult to see anything coming from it besidss a photo opportunity and some good PR all round

[Lancelot37]

Whan MP opens his mouth nothing usefull usually comes out.

[roverman]

Can someone just clear this up for me. The sale to Peel Investments, does that mean that Vancouver no longer have any shareholding in the airport, and it is now owned in the main by the unlisted Peel Group and a little bit by the local authorities?

[SWBKCB]

That's correct - see link below for more info.

Media Centre | Press Releases | Airport Statement (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases/2012/airport-statement.html)

[NorthSouth]

All smoke and mirrors. There are a million and one companies starting with Peel and ending with Ltd. All designed no doubt to minimise tax liability, maximise (or minimise) book capital values and pull the wool over everyone's eyes. One day people will wise up to the fact that handing public assets over to "more efficient" private enterprise is an inevitable race to the bottom.
NS

[Get me some traffic]

A little dicky bird told me today that there might be good news for the peeps who work at Teesside. Rumour has it that a certain Irish airline is considering baseing two (yes two) aircraft at MME in the not too distant future. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel?

[globetrotter79]

Maybe so, but if said Irish airline does turn up they can kiss goodbye to Thomson and pretty much any other new possible operators turning up at MME for a very long time...

Nevertheless, I appreciate (assuming they can get the finances to stack up) two aircraft is better than nothing.

[highwideandugly]

Poland,tenerife alicante girona and dublin my guesses.two aircraft seems a lot though?

Also where will the punters come from as I know I have already booked for the year(and my neighbours) from Newcastle and Leeds.Will this not just dilute their business?

also fear for other operators into DTV!

[pug]

The pax-tax would have to be scrapped first surely?

[david.crosby]

I agree pug, They would have to take cancel the PFF as thats why ryanair pullws out. I can still see thomson doing well at the airport as ryanair can still be expensive for familys traveling with baggage and other things. If Ryanair do come in with 2 aircraft it would create up to 400,000-550,000 pax for the airport which would be great and may attract more airlines into the airport as the airport could invest more.

[OMGitsDAVE]

Any news is good news for the airport right now!
Hopefully there's more truth to this than there were with other rumours!

[commit aviation]

Quote: If Ryanair do come in with 2 aircraft it would create up to 400,000-550,000 pax for the airport which would be great and may attract more airlines into the airport as the airport could invest more.

Sadly more passengers do not necessarily equal more airport investment especially if those passengers come through Ryanair! Have a look at Prestwick who have a larger FR operation but are losing money & have recently been put up for sale.
It would be fantastic for the local area to have more passenger flights from MME but don't assume that a (rumoured) Ryanair base will result in overnight profitability & increased investment.

[TSR2]

With the airport struggling to make ends meet, is it really a wise decision to have Ryanair as your main airline given that the airline will want to operate free of charge (or maybe want payment for doing so), and that Ryanair passengers are not exactly renown for spending in any airport ? Then there is the Passenger Facility Fee problem to overcome, as Ryanair are not exactly in favour of any charge to customers that they do not control.

[DTVAirport]

I'm surprised no-one has shot this rumour down in flames! Don't get me wrong I hope it happens.

TSR2 - I agree with you, Ryanair are bad for airports, but surely it would be better to have them based than to not have them at all?

[johnnychips]

As the most competition to DTV would come from Newcastle, at present FR only offer Dublin and Girona. However Jet 2 seem to offer flights to most obvious destinations from there and some not so obvious; Easyjet has a more limited offering, but seems to serve the bucket-and-spade routes and some cities.

FR's nearest base, LBA offers routes to about twenty-odd places (without even mentioning Jet 2), and DSA seems to have a speciality in flights by Wizz to Poland and Lithuania.

So if FR did base at DTV it would have to be conscious it was fighting a lot of established traffic including its own.

The biggest scepticism I have of the claim is two planes. That's up to six destinations a day (less if Canaries involved), and we know that FR likes to max out the use of its planes, especially in summer - that's how it's been such a success.

But good luck if it is true!

[DTVAirport]

As far as Ryanair's aircraft utilisation is concerned I flew out of Leeds a month ago and returned the same day, there were three Ryanair aircraft, one was the one I went on and the same airframe brought me back at the night, the other two hadn't budged an inch.

I was at Stansted three days ago and they had twelve aircraft in storage, and that's just the ones I saw, there were more.

So *if* we get two aircraft from them, we may only see the equivalent of one aircraft's worth of flights.

[johnnychips]

So *if* we get two aircraft from them, we may only see the equivalent of one aircraft's worth of flights.

I think most people think FR have over-ordered planes in respect of winter demand and it's been their strategy recently to lay them over in winter at places like Leeds and lay staff off.

They have expanded in to Eastern Europe, notably Hungary recently, and gone into major airports like BCN which was not in their initial philosophy.

So if they have some spare aircraft, they would have to think they could make more profit from them in summer by basing them at MME than either leaving them idle or putting them on routes elsewhere. I don't think they do have spare aircraft, as on the Ryanair thread in PPrune, it's been suggested they've had to cut out a plane (and routes) from places like Faro to serve their suddenly-found market in Budapest; that would suggest, if they were to base at MME, they would consider the routes there to be more profitable than those they'd cut from elsewhere.

[SWBKCB]

I know this is a rumour network and that nature abhors a vacuum, but how much response would some real news generate??

Any comments on this one?

Back to the future for airport marketing manager (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/9579630.Back_to_the_future_for_airport_marketing_manager/)

Or this one - can't see RYR operating a LHR service (although if some one was paying them to do it...)

New talks on Durham Tees Valley Airport - Local News - News - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/03/09/new-talks-on-durham-tees-valley-airport-84229-30490938/)

[N707ZS]

Back to the future marketing manager, lets hope it's not ground hog day!

Still amazed James Warton hasn't got William Hauge involved as his North Yorkshire constituency isn't that far away.

[highwideandugly]

A little bird tells me RYY have now produced their 2012 summer programme...guess wgat no DTV flights Looks like spare capacity is for Budapest filling the malev gap?
Anyone from ryr care to confirm/deny?

Nice to see old faces back pushing the airport forward-ground hog day indeed.

Heathrow running at 99% capacity...no way domestic flights will be reintroduced its a pipe dream.

No slots,no airlines and no passengers = trains(less than 2hours soon)

me thinks we are back to square 1.

[SWBKCB]

Still amazed James Warton hasn't got William Hauge involved as his North Yorkshire constituency isn't that far away.

Maybe the Foreign Secretary has better things to do with his time than get involved in publicity stunts with newbie, wannabee MP's? Does anybody really think that a PSO route to LHR is a runner?

[HH6702]

NOT YET ---I'm surprised no-one has shot this rumour down in flames! Don't get me wrong I hope it happens.



What makes you think ryanair can make a good go of it??

They cant make routes work out of NCL or DTV in the past....

DTV to Rome, Alicante and Dublin..... ALL NOW GONE !!

NCL to Milan, Shannon, Oslo..... ALL GONE NOW !!!

NCL seems to be able to keep dublin now 2x daily and gerona summer service only.....

DEFO not 2 based aircraft 1 aircraft base could work summer only but from summer 2013??

Could a new deal be done with peal airports?? Ryanair to fly from all peal airports at a lower cost to ryanair just to get the flights off the ground at DTV?

[SWBKCB]

But DTVA is no longer part of the company that owns DSA and LPL, it's a stand alone airport with DSA and LPL still being controlled by the Canadians.

[DTVAirport]

HH6702

All four Ryanair routes from MME have had excellent loads with at least three of them profitable, the exception being Girona which despite being full all the time must have lacked in yields I'm guessing.

Alicante - PFF
Dublin - Some Irish tax, they pulled a lot of routes along with ours
Rome - Greed, thought they could make more money on CIA-SNN

[SWBKCB]

All four Ryanair routes from MME have had excellent loads with at least three of them profitable, the exception being Girona which despite being full all the time must have lacked in yields I'm guessing.

And still they pulled out - makes you wonder how they've become one of the largest airlines in the world?

[HH6702]

My point......

Ryanair can make MORE money elsewhere and still can make more money today.

They maybe basing 2 aircraft for the winter (storage)!!!

Just can't see it happening

People don't have the money they used too.
Just look at up the road at ncl

TCX down to 2 a320 and 2 b757
Also ONur air flights have been canx!

Airport will make no money out of ryanair it will be like prestwick if they do all ryanair terms

[skyman771]

RYR !......................??
I think DTV should be more concerned that the AF-KL group have just announced an annual group loss of 809 Million Euros !!:suspect:

[BALLSOUT]

As I have said many times before, I am sure there is a strong possibility that FR will come to Teesside. They have looked at Newcastle a couple of times but not done the deal there (probably because of charges) The North East is the only real gap on the UK map for them, and MME is now on it's knees. They want to have something in the North East and MME will probably do anything to get them there now so I would expect it to happen before too long.
Historically they announce a base in the summer to be opened over the winter so maybe that's what to expect. They normally only rush into a new base when it is to replace someone going bust like malev for example.

[highwideandugly]

Good point Skyman

Cant quite see the economic logic in operating from so many UK airports within so few miles?

Leeds,Humberside MME and NCL Manch.could/should? be merged.
The worrying thing for DTV is that only 7000 passengers used the service in January...cant think February would be much better?

The weak link in the above list seems to be MME.Does anyone know how many passengers were being carried out of Liverpool before they got the chop?

I still cant see ryanair diluting there leeds traffic-but then who knows!

[Fairdealfrank]

Highwideandugly, what do you ,mean by "Leeds,Humberside MME and NCL Manch.could/should? be merged"?

Do you mean the PPRUNE threads on each airport? Do you mean FR bases?

[SWBKCB]

Highwideandugly, what do you ,mean by "Leeds,Humberside MME and NCL Manch.could/should? be merged"?

Do you mean the PPRUNE threads on each airport? Do you mean FR bases?

the meaning was KLM operations should be merged - however, understand that there are enough business users from MME and HUY to make the feed into KL's worldwide operation worthwhile at the current levels.

[highwideandugly]

yes sorry fairdealfrank..not too clear for you.. i meant the kl ops.
enough business users?..surely the pax would just go/up down the road to get to ams? kl wouldnt loose the traffic and save thousands in costs?
just a thought.

[pug]

highwideandugly, surely they would have done something about it by now if loads/yields were too thin? They tend to serve niche markets, such as the offshore oil and gas industry, and there is the chance that another operator could fill the gap should they pull out thus losing potentially high yielding passengers. It seems a sufficient number of people will pay more to use their local airport to keep the routes running. Just a thought.

[skyman771]

Pug
Just a point, KL will presumably have a contract with DTV, & it is this that determines their operations at DTV.
To suggest that KL have a criteria that to withdraw would allow in competition is lost on me !
Any Loco taking on route is hardly likely to constitute relevant competition as KL make their money on feeding connecting pax into their AMS hub.
Also unsure if this has any direct relevance to oil & gas market specifically located within the Teesside area, given their operations out of DTV then premium fares are only relevant on onward connections out of AMS in any event.

[DTVAirport]

DTVA's KLM Amsterdam flight is always significantly more expensive compared to NCL/LBA, yet they still fill the planes without breaking a sweat.

That says it all really.

[pug]

To suggest that KL have a criteria that to withdraw would allow in competition is lost on me

I know that as an example HUY have spoken with similar operators in the past, not to serve AMS but feeder ops to other major hubs. KLM are pretty unique in that they offer a service that BA couldn't hope to offer, and connect many of the smaller UK regions to the world. If they left some of those airports, they risk losing premium passengers to other airlines wanting to feed their respective hubs. Clearly if there is a cost issue then they would take action, but after a few decades of serving an established market they have yet to show evidence of wanting to consolidate.

[Fairdealfrank]

Thanks for the clarification highwideandugly, with you now!

AKAIK the UK and the Netherlands were one of the first countries to agree an open skies policy back in the 1980s. Over the years, this has been very beneficial to KL for 2 resaons.

(1) Because of the relative sizes of the two countries, there are far more UK regional airports for KL to feed its AMS hub with than there are Dutch regional airports for BA and BD to feed their LHR hubs;

(2) The inability to fly LHR from most regional airports.

Would imagine that KL does very well at UK regional airports and has no need to consolidate.

[onion]

What is it with skyman771, highwideandugly and SWBKCB? As soon as there is any potential good news for MME they come out and knock the place! Not only that but they then manage to attack current services at the airport!
Are you all scared of a bit of competition?
I'm not saying the Ryanair rumour doen't sound ambitious but things have to start somewhere!

[ncleflights]

Ryanair did detailed research three years ago about a possible base at either MME or NCL. My understanding is that MME was ruled out quite quickly both on cost and the fact loads to possible destinations would be insufficient for a 800 series 737. NCL, airport management have acknowledged this previoulsy, was ruled out shortly after by Ryanair not on cost as they proposed a better deal for Ryanair than MME but again on the fact that loads would be too thin on the ground for a 787 800 based aircraft except that is to sunshine destinations which as we all know are well served from NCL. This is the reason why both NCL and MME were not suitable at the time as a Ryanair base.

Unless conditions have drastically improved at MME and I can not believe they have then I would be very surprised to see a Ryanair base at MME.

I would go as far as to say the opposite is the case. The recession has worsened. We now have the CONDEM government in power which with another APD hike due is possibly the most anti aviation government this country has ever had. MMEs financial situation has worsened so they are unlikely to be able to come up with the financial incentive Ryanair would demand.

The only possible scenario in which I can see a base coming to MME from Ryanair is if they are desperate to base two aircraft somewhere and have no other options available. However given that growth from Ryanair seems to now be concentrated outside the UK I cant see, unless a massive financial incentive is on the table that they would take a gamble on MME.

[P330]

Firstly KLM. I've said several times that the KLM route is a profitable route for the airline. Load factors generally are around 60% with some slimmer services and some full loads...as is normal in a scheduled operation. I use this service very regularly and am in contact with KLM who tell me the service isn't going anywhere.....

Now...bullishness aside, we have to admit that if numbers start to fall and/or thoughts change within KLM (i.e. they can deploy somewhere else to make more money), then this can change quickly.

As for Ryanair...I would love the rumour to be true....even more I'd like it to work. I can't comment on whether it is true or not as this is the only place I have heard it but when I've spoken with people before they're expression has been "selling yourself to the devil". Of course when times are tough, this maybe your only option. Personally, I could see it happening...BUT, I couldn't see it being sustained as Ryanair don't often stick around for long if things aren't perfect and we don't have an history of getting things into that "perfect" category. I'm just not sure we could sustain 2 x 737-800s at profitable yields to make it long term worthwhile.....though I'd love to be proven wrong!

[paarmo]

Our German friends are in deep discussion with the Management about widening their operation from Teesside. Management would ideally want a based aircraft and Tui want to be certain that a) the airport is still here when they come to fly their aircraft in and b) they get the same deal as everyone else at the airport in terms of operating costs.
The Tui deal would make Ryanair a non starter.
Thomas Cook are still looking at the airport and a trawl through the postcodes of their NCL passengers shows a suprisingly large number of DL and TS Postcodes.
I am hoping that whoever took the moronic decision to go with Loco's instead of tried and trusted charters is still not in post and they make the right decision.

[ted320]

Personally I would prefer to see Thomsonfly than Ryanair, plus Thomsons fleet would fit better, they have 10 733 in their fleet which would be ideal size for MME, than the 738.

[Leofric]

Think you will find that TOM only have one B733 left...

[OldManJoe]

Durham Tees Valley Airport has appointed agency We Do to deliver its marketing activity, with Emma Ormerod taking the lead, bdaily reports. Emma, an Account Director at We Do, previously worked at the airport for 8 years, and will deliver the new strategy being developed by the Peel Group.
She said: ‘This is a challenge that I and the rest of the We Do team are looking forward to. Durham Tees Valley has been through some tough times but I firmly believe we can work with the Peel and the local team led by Airport Manager Shaun Woods to stabilise the current business and move forward to develop new opportunities.’Will they ever learn!!!! Oh dear, God help us!!!!
Looking at their website and their case studies doesn't fill you with confidence.
Caravans, Probation Trust, Psyche, Hairdressing...........

[SWBKCB]

If it doesn't work it's still a useful addition to the 'look at all the things we did but still couldn't turn it around' list they'll be giving the councils in a couple of years.

[N707ZS]

What happened to Mr Gill?

[highwideandugly]

Oh well the rot continues..and some of you expect us all to be positive!!!

Down another 20% for February and KLM down another 1000 passengers..(and that with an extra days flying in Feb)

Never mind guys Keep Calm and Keep Smiling(with heads in the sand):ugh:

[NorthSouth]

Eastern Aberdeen service pax up 8% on last Feb.

On the other hand, if you include the now axed Southampton service, Eastflight pax down 12.7% on last year.

Interesting also that KLM's pax to/from Newcastle went up by about the same percentage as DTV's declined.

NS

[fl dutchman]

KL AMS.

Yes in percentage terms the AMS figures whent down by 12% about the same percentage as NCL went up. But in passenger numbers MME was 1000 down and NCL about 2300 up. So NCL,s gain was only partly from MME.

So if I have worked it out correct the LF on MME-AMS is about 60%. Could be better, but not to bad.

[P330]

Exactly....60% is broadly ok. You wouldn't want it getting too much worse though. Also, to be fair, you would have expected forward bookings to be affected by the airport's recent uncertainty - which hopefully now has gone (in theory). With a bit of luck, I would expect KLM passenger numbers to gradually rise again back to what they were...

[skyman771]

oldmanjoe Will they ever learn!!!! Oh dear, God help us!!!!
Looking at their website and their case studies doesn't fill you with confidence.
Caravans, Probation Trust, Psyche, Hairdressing...........
On the above I make no comment.....
However well done to Emma I note that she has taken on an appropriate roll, in noting that one of the the tasks that "What We Do" love to do is "Crisis & reputation management"!:D

[SWBKCB]

Some interesting quotes in the attached article:

Peel’s strategic planning director Peter Nears said: “My vision is to have a viable sustainable future. I think it can be done, but at the moment there is not enough critical mass of dependable revenue and we are being hit with extra costs. Getting another link to London is very important"

"Aviation-related businesses have expressed interest in the past about coming onto the site if roads and infrastructure are in place and we are going to approach them again to see there is still interest."

Six North East local authorities still own a small stake of the Teesside airport. When Peel took over, their holding dropped from 25% to just 11% and in this month councillors, officials and local mayors are meeting Nears for a full up-date on his plans

First time I've seen this confirmed

Taking Durham Tees Valley Airport beyond these turbulent times - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news/2012/03/14/taking-durham-tees-valley-airport-beyond-these-turbulent-times-51140-30530130/)

[NorthSouth]

fl dutchman:in passenger numbers MME was 1000 down and NCL about 2300 up. So NCL,s gain was only partly from MMEWell, to be accurate, there's no evidence that ANY of Newcastle's gain was down to MME's loss - and my original post was not meant to imply that. Realistically, how many people in Middlesborough or Darlington, knowing that KLM flies from DTVA, would book a flight to Amsterdam from Newcastle? The point, it seems to me, is that Newcastle's numbers suggest there's no dip in demand for services to Amsterdam (and beyond) from NE England in general; just from Tees-side in particular.

As regards Peter Nears seeming obsession with London, this is surely entirely deluded. Even if it was true in terms of demand, the only airline that can deliver the slots and the rationale in terms of global connections to rival Amsterdam, is BA. And they would have to achieve a massive grab of market share from KLM, which would presumably lead to the disappearance of KLM. Frying pans and fires?

NS

[N707ZS]

If you go to a travel agent on Teesside which airport will they sell you a KLM ticket from?

It wasn't long ago on here someone mentioned that cruse companies were only selling KLM from Newcastle.

[paarmo]

That,Peter Nears, and the news that former members of the operating team at Teesside are now operating again leave me speechless. I fear that Tui will not push forward as they will see the same problems with their sevice as before with Teesside pushing forward towards the here today and gone tomorrow Locos.
It would appear that Peel like the one copy of the Financial Times and a Latte rather that ice cream and sticky buns for the kids,a Pint for Dad and a glass of white wine or a fruit based drink for the lady brigade.
No prizes for guessing where the most profit in the Terminal Building is.
ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER THESE PORTALS.

[fl dutchman]

There is no hard evidence to disprove that some of the extra pax at NCL were gained from MME either.

I agree that residents of Middlesborough, Darlington etc are unlikely to fly from NCL instead of MME to AMS, however is it possible that people who live approx equal distance from both airports were swayed to NCL over MME because of the passenger charge at MME?

In addition the uncertainty over the future at MME could also be a factor that has affected bookings. Timings, road/rail access? I really dont know the answer.

[Hipennine]

I live half way between the two. Ten years ago, MME was the preference if a choice of flights available. Now, there is no contest; if I need to go to Schiphol, it's NCL. In comparison, MME terminal is a hole, staff are surly, and I just don't want the tax hassle (plus the walk in the wind and rain across the apron, etc., etc.).

Even if there was a London service now, I'd still plump for NCL (or the train) for the same reasons. What's more, the interlining choices from NCL are now so much better - SN, LH, AF, etc, so it's not just the AMS connection that is important in deciding which airport to use.

[HeathrowDictator]

Our UK base is mid way between MME and NCL, and when connecting back on KLM I would prefer MME as it's much easier to come back through and the connection times are marginally better through AMS. Unfortunately, the fares always seem to be a good £20-£30 more per person therefore it doesn't make sense to do that option once adding the departure tax onto it as well and the lack of ease to get to Darlington train station to catch the train back north.

I'd love to see Peel Investments make a good go of it this time, I can only hope that it is a different management structure at Peel's end though otherwise it could end up being the same old story that we saw last time around...

Here's hoping that it can remain a viable business, if for nothing else but the 130+ staff who work there, amongst which I have the pleasure of knowing a lot of them.

-HD-

[Northbound A1]

Anybody know what happened to the farms which were up for sale on the south side? Peel had been looking at them to go with their free cargo centre land? Did Peel buy them in the end?
Went through DTV on a KLM flight last week and the place looked like a ghost town!

[highwideandugly]

withdrawal symptoms...are we still open ?? anything happenning or have the lights been switched off ??

[Northbound A1]

I wonder if the councillors are members of the same lodge again?

Peel get their way of the council share reduction. The clock is ticking on what happens next. No way have Peel spent £20m since 2003 :=

Councils' share of Durham Tees Valley Airport slashed - Local News - News - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/03/29/councils-share-of-durham-tees-valley-airport-slashed-84229-30646247/)

[skyman771]

Northbound A1
I don't always agree with your posts, but I feel that your cynicism is looking more like reality.
I think dwelling on the amount that Peel have "claimed" to have spent is now moving the debate up a blind alley. Unfortunately it is now history & reality is that Peel now have full control as to what they choose to do with the airport. In having control of in excess of 75% of the new company's shares then any resolution they choose to introduce can be carried at a general meeting, with any remaining representation from the various councils ignored at will.
Interestingly the article states :-
It has resulted in concerns that the councils will lose their say in any development on land at the site.
Interestingly councillor Jim Beall, Stockton Council’s deputy leader, in quoting :- ....Regardless of the level of shareholdings, the local planning authorities continue to control the use of the land,......, then councillor Beall must surely have missed the plot with this quote. Indeed today is the first day that the Governments new& more open planning reforms come into effect.
Coincidentally the article goes no to quote Peel Airports Limited are meeting with local authority leaders and mayors and Tees Valley Unlimited, possibly this week
Now one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to work out what is now suddenly on the agenda:E:E

[Northbound A1]

Its been an interesting time trying to keep Teesside open.

Is it legal for a company to gift itself the large parcel of land on the south side of the runway to their own company?

The councils should hang their heads in shame for allowing it to take place.
In 2003 the local councils owned 100% of Teesside Airport...Peel becomes a partner with outlandish promises, and hey presto after some clever company share deals the councils now own nothing, well 11% :eek:

Stockton council will no doubt benefit greatly from all council tax revenue if they allow houses to be built similar to another Ingleby Barwick estate...when the recession is over :mad:

[LGS6753]

Is it legal for a company to gift itself the large parcel of land on the south side of the runway to their own company?

Yes - it's called 'asset stripping'.

[Robert-Ryan]

Northbound A1 - yes it is legal for a company to gift itself a large parcel of land on the south side of the runway to themselves, but what is most definitely not legal, is moving the fence on the quiet to include more land than declared...

[skyman771]

Thankfully we still have a Land Registry !!

[johnnychips]

Teeside Airport station was the least used 2010-2011. Absolutely no relation to airport's difficulties as service is deliberately crap.

[OMGitsDAVE]

It's only served by two trains per week, that might be why?
Plus, it's a good mile away from the airport terminal!

[Fairdealfrank]

quote: "Teeside Airport station was the least used 2010-2011. Absolutely no relation to airport's difficulties as service is deliberately crap."

quote: "It's only served by two trains per week, that might be why?
Plus, it's a good mile away from the airport terminal"


The joys of an integrated transport system. Actually it's a disgrace, but regretably common up and down the country.

Doubtless because politicians and bureaucrats tend to be allergic to common sense, and/or don't use public transport.

[Mr Man]

It needs a pasty shop there :bored:

[skyman771]

It needs a pasty shop there
I'd prefer a pastie shop !;)

[DTVAirport]

I was reluctant to post this as there is too much bad news comes out of DTVA, but I suppose it'll get published sooner or later so might as well be now.

KLM are dropping one, possibly two, of the weekend rotations, if memory serves I think it's the Saturday 1535/1536/1539 and the Sunday 1530.

It won't have a massive effect on pax numbers though as these services have been running practically empty for years anyway.

[Northbound A1]

To think what the numbers were back in 2006.
Its like a ghost town today.
DTV Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/)

[N707ZS]

Those KLM flights were also stopped in the eighties for a bit and re-introduced.

I hear the farmer on the Southside has been given the land back that was to become the access road, the gas pipeline finished that access route off.

[mmegh]

KLM have canx the KL1539 on a Saturday night and KL1530 Sunday morning until October, For the past few years they have canx the Saturday afternoon flights mainly, having looked into this, cancelling the last flight on the Sat and first on Sun disrupts less pax

[davidjohnson6]

From what date are the KLM weekend cancellations effective ? Immediate or in 4 weeks time ?

[fl dutchman]

I think its from 29th April. Saves a nightstop! "Current" schedules show its reinstated from the end of OCT.

[Northbound A1]

Thats if its still open in Oct?

Peel have been busy buying other shares and expecting them to rise according to this article.
MIDAS: Property tycoon Whittaker snaps up £3.2m shares in Capital malls | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-2126554/MIDAS-Property-tycoon-Whittaker-snaps-3-2m-shares-Capital-malls.html)

Comment in the Mail on Sunday.

Sunday newspaper share tips: CSC, Avocet, Domino's Pizza, ABG, International Power and Hambledon | Mail Online (http://m.dailymail.co.uk/money/investing/article-2126819/Sunday-newspaper-share-tips-CSC-Avocet-Dominos-Pizza-ABG-International-Power-Hambledon.html)

Billionaire financier John Whittaker is placing his faith – and his cash – in out-of-town shopping malls.
Whittaker, 70, is chairman of The Peel Group, a privately owned firm that he has built up over the past 40 years. But he is also deputy chairman of Capital Shopping Centres after selling the Trafford Centre in Manchester to it in return for a 20 per cent stake.

Worth $1.7BN
John Whittaker - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/profile/john-whittaker/)

[Robert-Ryan]

Partly true - and it's not a fully gone conclusion yet I don't think.

FRA are going nowhere but the Calibrators are looking at moving to Bournemouth to be closer to Europe where the bulk of their work now is.

Hopefully it won't happen but it sounds pretty nailed on and I don't suppose it's something the airport can be blamed for.

[highwideandugly]

As expected(probably)and forecast(see previous posts)KLM reducing,Cobhams partial pull out and more high level talks in progress.Watch those Falcons.....

Reckon KLM pull out at weekends will bring forward an early closing time..maybe 5 ish??

Sorry to say its all been foretold in previous emails and the figures for March will show no hope.

I honestly would like to say something positive but fact is..there is nothing.

[Parsnip]

I hear the farmer on the Southside has been given the land back that was to become the access road, the gas pipeline finished that access route off.
IF that is true then someone should be flagging it up with James Wharton because a LOT of taxpayers money was spent on that bit of land some years ago

[DTVAirport]

Good to hear of a new route to Tenerife for Winter.

[paarmo]

It's a start and once again our German friends have stood by the airport despite having sand repeatedly kicked in their face over the years. I think that this kicks Locos into the long grass and look forward to further news for Summer 2013 and beyond not only with TUI but also with Thomas Cook. A slow start but watch this space.

[highwideandugly]

Mr Nears said: “We want to make [this airport] a success, and we stand by the deals we have done with operators.

“We cannot control the operators, but if we have done a deal with an operator, then we will stick with that deal.”

This doesnt sound definitive to me...still covering their backs me thinks,and ready to blame the operators if/or when they go?

anyway its great news of a tenerife back on the radar(pun) its up to the locals to support so get booking and maybe next year it will be back?

This will be the worst year in recent memory for passengers lets hope the only way is up from 2013.
The loss of ancillary services Cobhams/FRL etc could still put a spanner in the works as is a massive contributor to costs? lets hope peel have the will (and deep pockets) and can cover this

[N707ZS]

This will be a second flight to Tenerife.

Parsnip, that's what the farmer said.

[mmegh]

Didn't say who's doing the TFS route! If it's Thomson as far as I knew they were still planning on putting the TFS in next winter anyway, so is it really a 2nd route or Peel doing the usual bull***t?

[NorthSouth]

“We cannot control the operators, but if we have done a deal with an operator, then we will stick with that deal.”I suspect BMIbaby might take issue with that statement.
NS

[SWBKCB]

Thought the issue was Baby didn't stick with the deal they had with DTVA, and not vice versa?

[highwideandugly]

just published..down around the usual average of 17% !! on last year.

Amsterdam down 1000 passengers Aberdeen up.

any news on the 2nd tenerife flight yet? who is operating it ??

Peel must be pleased..more money down the drain!

[Northbound A1]

Any losses are probably just offset by the Peel accountants against the rest of the Empire's profits. Called clever accounting.

I did hear they were canvasing for buisness rate relief to try and squeeze more money out of the governemnt now the One North East agency has gone.

Does anybody have the actual ammounts which Peel were given by the disbanded gov agency?. ie for the new expensive fences surrounding their free south side land, and access roads into the terminal etc?

Was it given to Peels other building departments to build the roads without going to an outside tender? :eek:

Could be the start of another enquiry if it all comes out.

[SWBKCB]

Authorities not yet acted on your evidence then, A1?

[Northbound A1]

The evidence is there for all to see SW, and it wasnt paid for by Peel.

The fence is about 6ft high and cuts the airport in two just south of the runway if you hadnt noticed it.

The road in question leads into the main terminal from the new roundabout.

I dont suppose anybody will question the spending by the ONE agency as its now been shut down to save money.

The massive handouts were only public money after all :ugh:

[N707ZS]

Same with TDC all we have left now is about a dozen concreat lumps around the region.

[Parsnip]

Northbound A1 has been stealing the magic mushrooms from my garden
"Free Land" ?? there was and is no such thing
Hall Construction built the road to the terminal did you not see the hoardings on your way to the terminal? Last time I looked they were nowt to do with Peel.......
You'll find that the late and not very much lamented One North East put about £5M taxpayers money into the place, its all on tinternet if you research long enough
Too many conspiracy theories on here

[Northbound A1]

How did you know I'd been digging in your allotment :E

£5m eh..... That was an expensive fence and road. Never under estimate who is in the funny hand shake mob and who gets a contract parsnip.

You only have to look at who's in management at DTV these days and which lodge they belong ;) Hugh did well out of the last deal.

Its not what you know as the saying goes........ you may be surprised at how many lodge members there are at DTV :oh:

[mmegh]

Something a foot at DTVA cleaning and painting crew working overtime to make the place look tip top ( or as close to possible as you can make the place look) curious?

[DTVAirport]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone picked up on this. I'm saying nothing except for mmegh is playing it down - they are spending a VERY large amount of money upgrading every single aspect of the terminal.

[OMGitsDAVE]

Hopefully some hints.
What are they upgrading exactly?

[paarmo]

Visitors of course. When the Queen visits she only smells wet paint, when top Germans visit they only want to smell wet paint.

[davidjohnson6]

With a grandfather called Georg Saxe Coburg Gotha, I thought the Queen was German ?

(Hides to avoid being sent to the Tower for treason)

[mmeman]

Lets hope it is something to do with the release of the 2013 holiday brochures in a couple of days time...

[P330]

There will be a party on the 4th May!

The terminal will play host to key figures on the 4th May including Peel board directors, regional business leaders and directors from KLM as KLM and DTV launch a significant marketing campaign from the airport.....

[NorthSouth]

This is the same KLM that's just reduced frequency on its schedules from DTV, right?
NS

[mmegh]

That explains why every 2nd advertising board now advertises KLM

[P330]

Indeed, the same KLM. Rumoured to be present next Friday for the launch of the joint marketing effort is the General Manager of KLM (UK/Ireland) and the Commercial Director of KLM (UK/Ireland).

We may knock the airport and speculate about KLM's long term presence, but the planned initiative can't be a bad thing. Whether it will work is a different issue.

What we do need is an increase in charter flights/lo-cos...as I remain convinced this is where the money is (in terms of passenger revenue).

[LBIA]

Heard today that Thomson Holidays will be using a Leeds based Monarch Airlines aircraft for next summer 2013 weekly Tuesday flight to Palma-Majorca.

PMI 11:35 MME 13:25
MME 14:55 PMI 18:35

[Mike Tee]

The sprucing up is badly needed along with emptying of overflowing rubbish bins. The barrier railings near the entrance to the "drop off" car park have been lying on their side for weeks now. The whole place gives the impression of a couldn't care less attitude. When are they going to get rid of the stupid road centre ramp and open up the road past the Terminal Front. When is someone going to fix the "clanging" metal plate which frightens the life out of drivers exiting the drop off Car Park. The whole place, staff and management want a bloody good shake-up.

[N707ZS]

Leading businessman takes on airport Chairman's role


Home (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/) |
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Press Releases (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/media-centre/press-releases.html) |
Leading businessman takes on airport Chairman's role (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases/leading-businessman-takes-on-airport-chairman-s-role.html)


http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/assets/_files/cached/img/390x587/apr_12/peel__1335433824_Robert_Hough_pic_1.jpg?access=3434T3958

A leading northern businessman has been appointed as the new Chairman of Durham Tees Valley Airport.
Robert Hough has taken up the post following the announcement in February that Peel Investments (DTVA) Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Peel Group, was to become the new majority shareholder in the Airport.
Mr Hough has been a Director of Peel Holdings since 1986 and has held a range of senior posts, including Deputy Chairman from 1989 to 2009. He was also responsible for its Airports Division and in that role was Chairman of Durham Tees Valley from 2003 to 2009.
Mr Hough, who was previously a partner in a major firm of solicitors, is currently Chairman of the Northwest Regional Development Agency and was recently appointed Chairman of the Liverpool City Local Enterprise Partnership.
Among his other roles, he chaired the Organising Committee of the Manchester Commonwealth Games from 1995 to 1999.
Said Mr Hough “Having served as Chairman at Durham Tees Valley in the past, I am delighted to be renewing my connections with the Airport - and, indeed, the area as a whole.
“All of us now involved with the management of the Airport understand that it has been a very challenging period - and the challenges will continue - but there is a determination to both secure our existing business base and build for the future.
“That means exploring all opportunities for extension of activity - both in terms of the Airport and its services and exploiting the potential of the site as a whole.
“I believe that we have already made progress in establishing strong links with our key partners in the local authorities and agencies, such as Tees Valley Unlimited. Their support - and that of the local business and wider community - is absolutely crucial if we are to ensure that the Airport can make a major contribution to the area and its economy.”

[highwideandugly]

Oh dear..over to you Skyman for your take on this mega appointment announcement !!

See our friends up the road have just acquired a new low cost to Poland? It would have been nice to think we were in the bidding?

Anyone have any news on this extra Tenerife flight yet? Who ,(why) and when?

Last visit I had found 4 cars in the car park..mega bucks there then!

Does any of our PPL fraternity know what its like for private aviation...I spoke to a guy who flies from Fishburn and he said Newcastle is non light friendly...are we??

[NorthSouth]

the new Chairman of Durham Tees Valley Airport...was Chairman of Durham Tees Valley from 2003 to 2009Pardon my ignorance but wasn't the airport already in a parlous state in 2009? Can we expect anything new from this guy? It seems his claim to being a "leading northern businessman" comes from his position as a Peel place-man for 26 years. Seems to me it's a case of Peel trying the "parachute someone in with no local baggage" strategy (the Vancouver people), then when that failed, "let's try the same tired old faces".
NS

[Northbound A1]

Could there be another name change be coming up?
"Dutch north east valley" maybe?

The new pr machine spins "The worlds on your doorstep" unless it snows of course!
"The World (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9689155._The_World___s_on_Your_Doorstep___Durham_Tees_Valley _Airport_tells_future_passengers/)

[skyman771]

Highwideandugly
Where do I start....
How about seems by his current attire that he may be a "City" supporter:E;)....
Back to reality, director of this, on every committe going, plenty of flag poles & fish tanks in his garden then? All basically "standard fare" for a senior partner in a law firm, practice development they call it, but in reality such positions are frequently too general & non specific to core business activities.
I'd be more interested in the part of his CV detailing his previous achievements in his earlier role at DTV which are unsurprisingly absent.
As I see it Mr Hough is unlikely to contribute much other than being a very presentable spokesperson and outlet in delivering the medicine from the main board.
Perhaps the key part of the statement is in the sentence says it all:suspect: :-
..That means exploring all opportunities for extension of activity - both in terms of the Airport and its services and exploiting the potential of the site as a whole
On your other point NCL certainly isn't "light friendly" I was just in conversation with someone yesterday bemoaning that a basic touch & go fee alone was now around £25!

[SWBKCB]

New plan to stop rot at Durham Tees Valley Airport - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news/2012/05/05/new-plan-to-stop-rot-at-durham-tees-valley-airport-51140-30904941/)

Interesting quote.

Peel’s strategic planning director Peter Nears said: “We all recognise that one of our most important assets is the long-standing commitment of KLM to Durham Tees Valley and the importance of their service to the area’s economy. That is why, as one of our first priorities, we have worked with the airline to develop a joint marketing campaign aimed at highlighting that, wherever you want to be in the world, whether for business or leisure, you can get there with KLM from Durham Tees Valley. We have also been working closely with our local regeneration agency, Tees Valley Unlimited, to carry out an economic study which looks at increasing our airline services and building more aviation hangers to develop a long-term income. We need to up our passenger numbers, get more airlines on board and develop land south of the airport. We are making losses at the moment and we need to work hard to turn that around in the next few years.”

[N707ZS]

The money has been spent on the plans so lets just hope they can find someone to take the Southside hangars. Does this mean the same company owns the whole site again, not diffrent parts of the company.

[OldManJoe]

Peel Investments (DTVA) owns the airport and the land on the South side. Hopefully they can revitalise the old plans and open up the South side.

[skyman771]

OldManJoe
There is a significant opportunity for the expansion of aircraft recycling operations at DTV.
Such activities would go a long way to in reflecting Peel's longer term commitment to DTV..... watch this space :ooh:

[Northbound A1]

More news from the latest lodge meeting. As they adjusted their pinnies a descision was made by the Peel new boy not to change the DTV name as "they had bigger fish to fry".

Page 2 quote from the latest lodge member.

"The chairman said he believed that “the eye had been taken off the ball” in recent times. He added that last year the airport was “an endangered species”. “We got back into this airport because we did not like to see it endangered,” he said." :E

Could there be a drive to obtain even more money from the government until the housing market picks up? :hmm:

Durham Tees Valley Airport name set to remain the same - Local News - News - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/05/07/durham-tees-valley-airport-name-set-to-remain-the-same-84229-30911881/)

[NorthSouth]

Interesting strategy. They clearly don't think the bucket & spade market has any hope of reviving at DTV. But it was a massive proportion of the traffic in the airport's most successful years.

Also, KLM pax at DTV declined by 15% in Hough's previous watch 2003-9 and have been flat since then. I wonder who they think they will attract?

NS

[Northbound A1]

This chap always seems to be in the right place at the right time with his previous success at the Wynard and Stockton sites.

The ex MOD land in question is on the doorstep of the prime DTV land.

Stockton council will be rubbing their hands together with all the prospective council tax from it all.

Land is why Peel are holding on to DTV and not because they saw it as an endangered species.

Page 2 comments on the council committee report which doesnt have any objections, and the build is estimated to take 13-17 years.

Day of decision for £350m Eaglescliffe homes scheme - Local News - News - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/05/02/day-of-decision-for-350m-eaglescliffe-homes-scheme-84229-30883898/)

£350 Million from a 100 acre site. I wonder how many acres the DTV site comes to...including the south side bit of course ;)

[paarmo]

This doesn't sound like a run up to property development.It seems a realistic and somewhat positive assessment of current and future developments.
Airport poised for take off (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/9694279.Airport_poised_for_take_off/)

[Lancelot37]

Has anyone seen, in the last 10 years, any extensive marketing of the use of DTVA and KLM with flights to Amsterdam as the stepping stone to the rest of the world?

Many business people use that route and a few of my personal friends, but talk to the general public, in this area, and the usual answer is "I never thought of that!"

An opportunity missed, surely.

[NorthSouth]

Isn't that because the general public, in this area aren't in a position to be going to the rest of the world? For most people, their air travel will be on a holiday flight within Europe, on a budget. Going via Amsterdam isn't an option for that market.
NS

[DTVAirport]

It's a step in the right direction.

There are some people on here who seem to be suggesting the airport shouldn't be marketing its services! :ugh:

[JSCL]

What is the business demand case for DTV, out of interest? Surely there are industries that connect DTV to NL or further afield?

[NorthSouth]

oil, gas, petrochemicals

[pzu]

With the sale of BMI Regional now finalised, is there a case for Teesside (sorry DTV) to be chasing them to move in on the ABZ - MME market and trying to regenerate this route

Couldn't their capacity be used to generate an improved service with lower prices utilising the BMI brand which is still respected on Teesside?

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

[skyman771]

pzu - On reading your post I momentarily thought you may still be in Africa !!
DTV only has two schedules! AMS (KLM) & ABZ (Eastern) !! Thus I really can't see as to what your point is.
Now I would have thought, great idea to pursue "any" airline to provide services into DTV, but surely not at such a critical time to look to introducing competition on the only services that you do provide. It's commercial suicide !:ugh:
Incidentally the BMI brand which is still respected on Teesside
by whom !???

[SWBKCB]

From IAG press release:

"In late April, we completed our purchase of bmi. As a result, British Airways is able to manage its wider Heathrow slot portfolio more effectively and is launching a new route to Seoul later this year. Airports across the UK and beyond have contacted us about starting services and, subject to reaching satisfactory agreement with them, we plan to also launch flights from Heathrow to Leeds-Bradford, Rotterdam and Zagreb and increase frequencies to existing key destinations. Consultation continues with bmi mainlinestaff and their trade unions about plans to integrate the business into British Airways.

With BA at NCL and possibly LBA, prospect of a LON route looks more remote.

[paarmo]

MME to any London Airport is pie in the sky and a side show for the regeneration of the airport. Watch this space for charter news.

[SWBKCB]

Tend to agree - but this lot were banging on about it only last week:

When will we see the return of flights to London?

Robert Hough: "We are working hard to restore that. We have made strong representations to government that connections to Heathrow from this airport are key. We have got a situation where IAG (International Airports Group) having acquired BMI have got more slots. To what extent can they be allocated to Northern airports? Those discussions are taking place and I know our local MPs are on the case and more conversations are set to take place with the Transport Minister in the next three to four weeks."

Peter Nears: "We hear talk of London as a hub but it often seems to be forgotten how the nation connects to the capital. When the previous air transport White Paper was produced about seven years ago the Department for Transport had a regional airport specialist which took account the views of regional airports. I think the government now should focus a stream of work specifically on how to improve connectivity from regional airports to London."

Airport poised for take off (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/9694279.Airport_poised_for_take_off/)

I also agree that charter makes more sense, but that is a big ask as well. Charter in the UK is basically TCX, TOM and MON - the first two seem to be pulling back in the regions with MON expanding at LBA...

[N707ZS]

I see the airport only made a loss of £1.6m last year these days that's not a lot. Presume they don't have a big bank loan to pay back either.

[Fairdealfrank]

Of course a Heathrow link is important and possibly vital for MME.

Can't see BA doing it as they are at NCL, but who knows.

As ever it all revolves around the issue of LHR expansion, that's the political reality.

[fl dutchman]

I read today in a B A statement that they will launch 3 new domestic routes from LHR this coming winter. One is already announced to LBA. Could Teeside be in with a chance??

There is a link to the statement on the BMI thread.

[DTVAirport]

I know our name change was a contribution to the decline of our LHR route, but bmi ran it into the ground themselves - dropping their business class product and constant fiddling with timings are just two of the reasons I can remember (there were more).

Add to that the confusion of bmibaby pulling out (people thought bmi and bmibaby were one and the same so when baby went it was assumed the Heathrow flight had been pulled too).

To get to the point, BA just need to scratch the surface to see that it wasn't that long ago that bmi were effortlessly filling four A320 rotations each and every day, even turning away passengers who just turned up on the day hoping a seat was available!

Despite this, my gut feeling is we won't be one of the remaining two domestic routes. One will probably be Belfast which they're inheriting off bmi.

[globetrotter79]

Very much doubt it...for my money I would expect:
(1) LBA
(2) BHD (ok not really new exactly but new for BA)
(3) JER (route moved across from LGW)

[DTVAirport]

globetrotter79 is probably right, but failing this, us, Inverness and Doncaster/Sheffield are the only other possibles. I'd say Inverness is more likely to get it than we are but I'd put us ahead of DSA.

I'm gonna shut up now because it would be easy to get carried away with this when truthfully I think we all know it's not going to happen. :8

[pug]

globetrotter79 is probably right, but failing this, us, Inverness and Doncaster/Sheffield are the only other possibles. I'd say Inverness is more likely to get it than we are but I'd put us ahead of DSA.

The routes being looked at are.; LBA, BHD and NQY I believe.

[highwideandugly]

unlikely..much more revenue from direct south america and far east routes. Heathrow already way behind FRA and CDG for these routes ?

And really is the demand still there with trains taking 2.30 hours ish ?

see no figures released from dtv for april..wonder what they will tell us?

Paarmo you mentioned news on charters...well?? and also anyone got any news on a)the tenerife extra flight and B) news for 2013 in general..most brochures out now?

[DTVAirport]

Europort Express - connecting you to Europort (http://europortexpress.com/)

New Dutch start-up listing us as one of their initial destinations.

[highwideandugly]

April finally released.

total 13354 -16.6 % down

Rolling year 177748 -25.1% !!

AMS -4%

Oh well heres to ..
"thingy express!!"

[ILS32]

KLM have said that they are committed to continuing their services from the airport.The latest passenger figures for Amsterdam have dropped again.If this trend cannot be broken then how long can KLM continue.Even the most die hard supporters of the airport must realise if growth cannot be achieved and sustained then the future of DTV is not looking good.I wouldn't put to much hope in Europort Express to halt the decline even if it does become reality.

[Northbound A1]

Shame they cant spell Teesside right on the europo_t website :cool:
Europort Express - connecting you to Europort (http://europortexpress.com/)

Is that nigerian fella still behind bars? It sounds a bit like his DTV ex airline promises?

As for KLM, aren't they getting 5p off per litre to keep them at DTV ;)

[davidjohnson6]

highwide - am wondering whether the royal wedding inspired bank holiday at the end of April 2011 might have anything to do with pax numbers on the Amsterdam route.
Admittedly, if the NCL-AMS route is up 8% in April 2012, while MME-AMS is down 4% this is a bad sign, but I'm guessing that there's more leisure money floating around in Newcastle than Teesside and thus leisure flights will boost pax number more around national holidays. Furthermore, Easter 2011 was April 8th (i.e. early and colder) while Easter 2012 was April 24th (i.e. late and warmer) - meaning people were more likely to use it to go away.

Clutching at straws I know, but this is the most positive spin I can put on this.

[highwideandugly]

David..fair points.However the trend(even with 5p off a litre)is still downward.I know its early days for the new "regime" but they must be concerned. Dont forget KLM have also dropped the night stopper on Saturdays so those figures are likely to be repeated next month? although I suppose there will be a little more leisure traffic.

Has anyone found any news for 2013 yet? and what happened to that extra Tenerife-any details yet?

[Piltdown Man]

Routes have to pay for themselves. So what on earth would persuade anybody other than BA to go to LHR? BA don't operate the service because other services pay more. And don't forget, we are talking about transfer passengers and not point-to-point (Darlington/Middlesborough to London) travellers, as these are probably better served by road/rail transport. There's probably a greater likelihood of Emirates arriving with an A330 than BA in an A319.

PM

[skyman771]

davidjohnson6
David you appear to be attempting to undermine your own observation ... if the NCL-AMS route is up 8% in April 2012, while MME-AMS is down 4%...
I am not aware that there is an improving micro ecconomy "up the road". The reason seems pretty obvious to me,... pax migration!..... It is even worse however when KL review what is actually happening as to growth on the route for the whole region as 8% of a lot is far greater than 4% of a few:uhoh:

[NorthSouth]

DJ6:Furthermore, Easter 2011 was April 8th (i.e. early and colder) while Easter 2012 was April 24th (i.e. late and warmer) - meaning people were more likely to use it to go awayerrrrm, except if those people live in Tees-side? I know you Tees-siders have a bit of a thing about Geordies being different but this is surely just desperation in trying to find excuses for the sad reality that the Tees-side economy is f**ked, people have no money, there's huge unemployment, and no-one from outside the region could have the remotest reason for going there other than the few business travellers with facilities already there. It's a microcosm of the UK as a whole - we're in the doldrums till the government abandons its Thatcherite slash-and-burn obsession.
NS

[Get me some traffic]

Scrap the £6 fee.

[Northbound A1]

Peel wont do that...they want to shut the place. If you dont believe me, have a look back at their press releases...DTV didnt fit in with their master plan I think their quote was.

Cutting the £6 tax might show they are trying to keep it open at least :ok:

[DTVAirport]

They've made the effort to go to Routes:

Durham Tees Valley Airport visiting Routes Europe 2012 - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news/2012/05/16/durham-tees-valley-airport-visiting-routes-europe-2012-51140-30980908/)

[skyman771]

They've made the effort to go to Routes:
Is this what you call effort ?...................