DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[SWBKCB]

Aerospace company remains committed to North-East airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10274881.Aerospace_company_remains_committed_to_North_East_a irport/)

[P330]

Agree on the prices. Tried to get on KLM to Brussels the other week at short notice and the price was horrendous. Went via Leeds instead. Sad that when there are seats available from my struggling local airport, I have to travel elsewhere. Off out from MME this week at a sensible price; hope the snow stays away!

[SWBKCB]

The airport’s owner, Peel Holdings, has now applied to Darlington Borough Council to change a 1.7 hectare section of the car park - more than 900 spaces - into a storage area for caravans, motorhomes and other vehicles for the next three years.


Andy Foulds, commercial director for Durham Tees Valley Airport, said the company had to maximize all business opportunities for the site in order to keep it sustainable...

...in a statement, Mr Foulds said: “Maximising business opportunities for the whole site is important to sustain the airport. In this instance we were approached by an organisation which offers storage facilities for vehicles, including mobile homes, seeking temporary use of a section of our car parking area which is some distance from the terminal and is actually cordoned off at present. If the application is approved it will enable us generate income from an asset which is currently under-used.”

Airport bids to turn car park into caravan storage site (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10281740.Airport_bids_to_turn_car_park_into_caravan_storage_ site/)

[Beafer]

Its well known locally that the car park is not secure and cars are broken into. This sounds like a case of only fools and horses instead of introducing routes.

Can you imagine the look on a visiting CEO's face as he arrived at the airport to discuss new routes. Caravans every where, they will be introducing £200 speeding tickets next ;)

[davidjohnson6]

Better to have vehicle storage or swathes of empty tarmac ? Neither is ideal but better that there be commercial activity rather than none on the site - signals to airlines that airport management is flexible to say the least. Keeps people in work and gives the airport a bit more life. Perhaps a company might be interested in a warehouse or light industrial unit close to the airport ?

[skyman771]

Neither is ideal but better that there be commercial activity rather than none on the site
Absolutely!, the only future for DTV is to move away from dependence on passenger revenue. As time runs on, then to remain attractive to airlines the airport is going to need ever greater amounts of investment which it is no longer possible to generate internally from passenger operations.
There are no outside investors / airlines with the resource to throw at DTV, particularly when there are more attractive propositions both to the North & South.
Airport management have already seen this in their continued pursuance of regional funding for industrial development. To become ecconomically sustainable then then DTV is going to have to operate more in the "airfield" as opposed to "airport" mode, the key being to maintain a runway suitable for purpose.
With such a setup and direction then DTV has a great deal to offer the North East region as a whole. It is down to the developer to get high profile industry names on board, so that others follow & a critical mass built up.
As for caravan storage parks then if nothing else it provides a visual endorsement that something has to change and soon. Care needs to be taken that caravan storage parks never become caravan parks for the homeless !

[Beafer]

The romanians have just heard and are on the way :cool:
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/images/localpeople/ugc-images/275796/Article/images/13359684/3186741.png
The ones who have arrived ;)
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/resources/images/2362084.jpg?type=articleLandscape

[N707ZS]

Beafer are you at Priory or Middleton Grange?

[pzu]

Caravan Storage Park

Is this part of an ingenious plan to lure a future Lo-Co - said caravans could be made available in case the Lo-Co has a delayed flight and is obliged to comply with New EU regulations to provide Px accommodation!!!

PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired)

[Beafer]

Will this be what the airport entrance will look like when the council give them the go-ahead for this madness? I for one dont want to lose the lead off my roof. Can you imagine what it will look like when Yarm holds it fair.
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Travellers+Site+Next+Former+Illegal+Settlement+UW0-lFGjFPMl.jpg

[UL730]

I understand at the moment that a major London airport is in dispute with HMRC with regard to cancelled car park arrangements (bookings that are paid for but the vehicle did not turn up).

The airport argues that as a service has not been provided they are entitled under terms of a cancelled contract to retain the VAT element of the payment (the original output element of tax is not balance against input - as in conventional VAT accounting).

The dispute is several million pounds and Freshfields who are acting for the airport are confident of the outcome - based on precedence in EU law.

A move into mobile homes might be missing a point.

[davidjohnson6]

Aberdeen and Amsterdam both down 9% compared to February 2012
Was this down to bad weather, or something else ?

Aberdeen -250 passengers
Amsterdam -693 passengers
Alicante +252 passengers

Add in various odd one-off flights, and MME is down about 590 passengers or 4.5% on Feb 2012 overall

[Red Four]

Remember 2012 was a leap year also.

[Northbound A1]

Will the airport cover the costs if this happens while parked in the car park? DTV Motorhome crime in 2012
Metal thieves target catalytic converters (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/crime/9488230.Metal_thieves_target_catalytic_converters/)

[N707ZS]

Presume it would be someone elses problem.

The caravan storage would be run by an outside company and would have space for up to 350 vehicles, in an area that is already protected by fencing and airport security.

[Beafer]

Peel may have to re-think the car park idea according to the neighbours. The locals dont want a gypsy camp on their doorstep.

Any new flights planned?

[Midland 331]

I understand it's for caravan storage, not occupation.

Two very different usages. Any caravan storage facility has to be fenced and have on-site security in order to be insurance-compliant. If not, owners won't be using it.

There are already around 500 caravans stored around less than a mile from the airport.

The Daily Mail-style hysteria further up the thread about travellers is incorrect.

I'm probably one of the few contributors to the thread that's actually worked there, and I feel deeply saddened whenever I go into the terminal. I spent a couple of years of my young working life in the place. And this proposed plan for alternative use adds another sign of decay to the formerly proud little airport.

[Mike Tee]

Some clarification needed here. Surely even if the Potable Water equipment at Teesside was out of order, (frozen perhaps) it would have been more cost effective to load up with bottled water rather then route via Shannon with the extra costs of landing there or is there something else involved. Anyone out there "in the know".

[SWBKCB]

Confirmation that the previously flagged second RGF bid has been submitted

Durham Tees Valley Airport launches fresh bid for growth fund cash (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10309334.Durham_Tees_Valley_Airport_launches_fresh_bid_for_g rowth_fund_cash/)

[skyman771]

second RGF bid has been submitted :-

Sedgefield MP Phil Wilson told The Northern Echo: "I hope the Government listens this time.

Bit of an irony here in that Phil Wilson's predecessor:8 believed he "was" the govenment. One wonders as to whether the outcome would have been different....

[Northbound A1]

Heard about this as I passed through the terminal the other day.
Based at Doncaster but providing a service to DTV.

Are most of the team based at Doncaster now?
http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/corporate-community/jobs/current-vacancies-at-the-airport/aviation-development-analyst

Vacancy: Aviation Development Analyst
(Salary circa 20k per annum plus contributory pension scheme)
Peel Airports (Doncaster Sheffield and Durham Tees Valley Airports) has an excellent opportunity for an individual to build on their experience and to join the Airport Team based at Doncaster
whilst also providing a service to Durham Tees Valley Airport.

Reporting to the Head of Aviation Development you will collate, analyse and monitor market demand, passenger statistics, competitors analysis and market intelligence to facilitate the preparation of business cases for new passenger, cargo and general aviation opportunities of the Airports.
The successful candidate will:

Be educated to degree level in a related subject (preferably within Aviation)
Have proven competency in collating, analysing and presenting data
Be enthusiastic and passionate about the aviation industry
Have advanced knowledge of MS Excel with strong analytical and numeracy skills
Be a good communicator at all levels both written and verbal
Be able to demonstrate excellent attention to detail, report writing and market research skills
Ideally have a working knowledge of market economics and the aviation industry
A full UK driving licence is essential and you will be required to complete a Criminal Records Check and a five year reference check.
If you believe that you have the drive, determination and flexibility to succeed in this role then send an up-to-date CV and covering letter, to: Diane Bunting Human Resources Advisor Robin Hood Airport Heyford House First Avenue Doncaster DN9 3RH
Contact number 01302 801025 Or e-mail [email protected]
Previous applicants should not re-apply as your CV/application will be included within this current recruitment drive.

[Lancelot37]

Seriously, would anyone with those qualifications and ability want to work for £20k a year? I doubt it.

[davidjohnson6]

Lancelot - was thinking the same thing, but worried in case I came across as a snob.

I believe graduate entry teaching pays about 23k per year. The only reasons I can think for a graduate to take the role is either
a) graduate is of low calibre
b) the candidate lives in Doncaster (i.e. lives rent-free with Mum+Dad and sees this as a way of saving for a deposit for a mortgage)
or c) graduate is desperate to get into aviation and see this as a way of gaining aviation credibility with a view to moving to a new role after 2 years.

[Robert-Ryan]

DTVA has always been notorious for under-paying compared to other airports over the years. The phrase "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" is often heard around the place.

[Fairdealfrank]

It's doesn't sound a lot: put it another way, it's not even double the minimum wage.

Is this driven by the current situation of high graduate unemployment?

Only advantage for graduates: no requirement to pay back their university fees at such a low salary.

[SWBKCB]

Not sure whether this should be in Jet Blast...

Durham Tees Valley airport "hard to justify" in the long term (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/10326013.Durham_Tees_Valley_airport__hard_to_justify__in_the _long_term/)

[N707ZS]

Interesting he doesn't say Coventry. The guy could possibly be in Jet Blast in the biggest t1t discussion.

[SWBKCB]

Looking at the artist impression in Beefer's link, that Tesco's in Washington is going to need some more parking - there's an idea, Park and Ride! :ok:

[teej013]

News just in...

Plans approved for caravan park at Durham Tees Valley airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10346311.Plans_approved_for_caravan_park_at_Durham_Tees_Vall ey_airport/)

Possibly a new kind of fly drive holiday ?

[SWBKCB]

Plans approved for caravan park at Durham Tees Valley airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10346311.Plans_approved_for_caravan_park_at_Durham_Tees_Vall ey_airport/)

Would be nice if comments could be restricted to those of an aviation nature.

If I wanted to read the Daily Mail, I'd go and buy it. :ok:

[SWBKCB]

The decision to allow the change goes against the council’s own planning policy, which states that all economic activity within the airport’s grounds should be connected to the operation of the airport.
Planning officer David Coates told members that if the application had been for a permanent change he would have advised them to reject it, but that a three-year temporary change was acceptable while the airport worked to increase passenger numbers.

Just noticed this para - was the planning permission for the south side restricted to aviation related activity. Useful precedent...

[davidjohnson6]

Was the 3 years picked by DTV or by local Govt planning officers ?
If DTV is still running almost entirely on just Aberdeen + Amsterdam in 2016, will DTV still be a Peel owned passenger airport ?

[N707ZS]

I see good old Doris I don't like noisey planes Jones poped her head up!

[Northbound A1]

Re;
"Was the 3 years picked by DTV or by local Govt planning officers ?
If DTV is still running almost entirely on just Aberdeen + Amsterdam in 2016, will DTV still be a Peel owned passenger airport ?"

Peel will decided when the RGF bid is granted or not.
Anyone know how much a caravan pitch in the car park is and do you have to pay council tax? ;)

[OldManJoe]

Google is your friend. Storage only. No pitching.
Price List | Caravan storage North Yorkshire | Motor home storage North Yorkshire | Caravan storage North East | Easy Park Northern Limited (http://www.easyparknorthern.com/caravan-storage-north-yorkshire-prices/)

[maxtoon]

Looking at the artist impression in Beefer's link, that Tesco's in Washington is going to need some more parking - there's an idea, Park and Ride!The store is raised on pillars creating the remainder of the carpark underneath. This is quite common to reduce the footprint.

[Beafer]

A friend had his caravan stolen from a site in North Yorkshire and they told him that stored vans weren't covered by insurance.

Knowing DTV security (what security), it might get interesting when the owners turn up to go on holiday. :cool:

[Midland 331]

The insurer will always ask if the storage site has a number of key features, including a defined boundary and on-site security. If it hasn't, then they will decline to cover the caravan. The location of thefts is recorded and exchanged between insurers, so high-risk and non-compliant sites are known.

[jetstar.8]

Are these to be privately owned caravans
manufactures new caravans or a dealers
to be stored at the airport

[highwideandugly]

sorry state of affairs when the Caravan Club has more entries than aviation ..onwards and downwards...what has become of this airport???:ugh:

[jetstar.8]

The first 6 caravans have arrrived and a motor home storage fee is £199.00 per year
How much does the aiport get from that fee?

[Beafer]

Looks like they have been laying a new taxi way as well ;)

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYI3iVn1tmpDUC8cAxBgIKV5j9i2wF-kEei-ug8g6GDEA_dnsD

Do they charge extra for propane tanks and pick up trucks?

[highwideandugly]

Oh well if you cant beat em,join em!! There is a nice 2009 tourer up for grabs in the Northern Echo...one owner,only 20000 miles. Not really up to speed on prices etc. but asking 19,999 ?

advice please from anyone..Peel,caravan club etc?

BTW coulour is white and has a spare propane cylinder.:ok:

[davidjohnson6]

Mid month has come round again
DTV had 14,079 pax in March, down 5.3 % on March 2012 - loss equates to about 785 pax
DTV rolling year has 162,846 pax

NCL had 294,321 pax in March, up 3.4% on March 2012 - gain equates to about 9,675 pax
NCL rolling year has 4,356,122 pax

Aberdeen route for March
DTV - 2,585 pax, down 14% from 3,005 pax, meaning a loss of 420 passengers
NCL - 2,837 pax, up 32% from 2,151 pax, meaning a gain of 684 passengers

Amsterdam route for March
DTV - 8,009 pax, down 5% from 8,438 pax meaning a loss of 429 passengers
NCL - 29,339 pax, up 26% from 23,311 pax meaning a gain of 6,028 passengers
Note - Easyjet began flying NCL-AMS 5x weekly from Dec 2012.

Easter Sunday was on 8th April 2012, but 31st March 2013.

[skyman771]

DTV Pax figures
Complete disaster, if not in absolute terms, then certainly in terms of trends that will be picked up by the statisticians of which extrapolation of current trends reflects certain oblivian !
In reality how long can anyone expect KL to continue it's support?, background ecconomic conditions are clearly reflecting that a Loco option up the road is a no brainer or actually the "cash strapped" local punters have little choice when they consider their budgets.
One could say that the business sector & those transit pax are the "bread & butter" the down side is that the airport experience at DTV due to lack of capital / volume pax is now also considerably inferior to that up the road. Another barrier to growth !:ugh:
KL will do all it can to carry out its obligations to DTV but at this rate there will come a time soon when they are faced with some very difficult decisions.....:{

[Unusual Attitude]

Might help arrivals numbers if they check their Viz measuring equiptment, they were reporting 2000m on Sat when I was inbound and I was visual from 4-5 miles! When I depatered they were still only giving 3000m and it was nearer 8-10k....!

UA

[N707ZS]

Viz measuring equipment is by eye from a fireman counting lights unfortunately.

[Unusual Attitude]

Well he must be flipping blind....! Big difference between 2k and 8k, almost cost me a divert to NCL....

[10 DME ARC]

Thread drift!!! Can we get back to caravan's!!:\:\:\:\:\:\

[highwideandugly]

10 dme similar minds...mods can you please sort these posts out.No one is interested in DTV's demise..lets talk caravans!!

I see a new light blue colour is on the market for 2014..go get it!!!

also when the caravans are static..do they let the air out of the tyres...with these winds we are having it might be a good idea? have you ever tried overtaking at Scotch Corner with X winds?

[DTVAirport]

First of all I'd like to point out my personal feeling is the caravans are embarrassing for the airport, but you've got to look at the bigger picture, it's a means of generating income and that's something the airport cannot afford to ignore at the moment.

It's not permanent and yes it's bad press but the usual over-reaction on here is simply unnecessary and boring

[johnnychips]

I think it's just being typically English, trying to have a laugh in the face of bad news.

[Beafer]

No new routes operating, but when I looked over the fence this week there was a new fire training course being held at the caravan park at DTV.

A case of if you can't beat them, join them for the trumpton boys.
http://i4.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article2820011.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/PM2877834DQ180413CAMP-02-2820011.jpg

[highwideandugly]

If this is the airport...its a joke..is this Category 12 or 2 fire cover ??

BTW I hear they do good jacket potatoes for departing flights!!

Come on PEEL get real..../:ugh:

[SWBKCB]

Gosh Beafer, your jokes are just so funny...

:ugh:

[N707ZS]

SWBKCB. Think the poor guy lives at the Priory Hospital we should have pity on him.:ok:

[mmeman]

good news - new route to Ibiza next year with Thomsons. :ok:

bookable on their website.

[DTVAirport]

Excellent news!! It may only be one route but it's a step in the right direction that will attract the spend-money-in-the-terminal pax that are desperately needed. It also shows Thomson must still be able to make money at DTVA despite pulling their Winter programme.

[LBIA]

Northbound A1 Thomson Holiday's own website has both the weekly Palma (Tuesdays) and new Ibiza (Thursdays) routes on sale for Summer 2014. Thomson - Holidays to some of the best winter & summer holiday destinations (http://www.thomson.co.uk/holidays.html)

Looks like both service's will be operated by w-legging the Leeds based Boeing 737-800 aircraft...

[No-More-Bullschit]

I know it's good news but why are we hearing about Ibiza from the ex-toilet cleaner chief of Doncaster airport?? Even if he does still oversee DTVA as well, which I didn't think he did, there's still more appropriate people accustomed to going in front of the media, where's Andy Foulds or Shaun Woods at?!

[Northbound A1]

Police closed a rave at DTV Airport at the weekend.
Was there a Peel £6 entry fee? :E

Police shut down illegal raves (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10384905.Police_shut_down_illegal_raves/)

[highwideandugly]

"it is believed party goers had used social networking sites to make arrangements for the unlicensed gathering in a crumbling building"

Its the first time the truth has been told about the terminal!

[N707ZS]

Echo said the party was in part of the hospital must of been Beafer.

[Beafer]

N7Ozzzz I'll have you know that the hospital ward was bouncing as usual, but the police helicopter made more noise than the party.

The police looked like they were also enjoying the music outside Cleveland Motorhomes from what I could see through the ward bars. :p

[VentureGo]

Is it not time we faced reality with regard to Teeside Airport (Darlington/ DTV.... etc...) As a Region we need to support firstly a much improved surface transport link to Newcastle International Airport. O.K.... Controversial to some! .... But in reality the only way the NORTH EAST as a region can attract new routes, expand frequency of existing routes , and promote the North East as a truly viable central business and leisure destination. --- I know there will be the usual defendants of keeping a civilian airport in Teeside .... but a United Region with an emphasis on Newcastle Airport with fast, convenient and comfortable links to Teeside would, I feel, promote more and better frequent air links to ALL..... FOr Goodness sake.... Even the owners (Peel) don't want an Airport!!

[N707ZS]

Yawn.........!

[jetstar.8]

I agree whith Venturego
Close it use the land for housing,factories,retail or Leisure or a mixture of all
anything that will bring jobs

[johnnychips]

And just to cheer you all up, Teesside Airport was the least-used railway station in GB 2011-12 with only 14 passenger exits and entries. (Not surprising because of one day a week service and crap access to airport anyway).

[highwideandugly]

N707ZS must have been at one of those all night raves!! ??

We have been there many times..venture probably right but nothing will happen in an instance...DTV will continue to die a slow painful lingering death:{

All threads have been covered a million times and its only the humorous meanderings of all on here that lifts the gloom!

[onyxcrowle]

Seems people want the airport to close.
This happened before with railways until that wrongdoer tool the bait and butchered our railnetwork .
Now the folly in his work os clear
All those lines needing reopened communities cut off all by this very narrowinded thinking.
What happened to loyalty to your area and community. All these daft posts about caravans. If you dont like it. Form an action group or hook up with friends of dtv.
This is your local airport part of community. Wheres ur civic pride and desire to see it grow.
That airport is perfectly formed for investment in the future.
Business flights both small private jets to other Klm style ops.
Howabout pushing more training flights.
Air dismantlers.
Training schools.
And try albiet desperate but offfer passengers and airlines a deal where if new routes could be offered the airport will pay the apd not the passanger for the first six ti eight months of operating.
More adverts advertise as far as leeds the north penine towns. Ripon northalerton etc. Harrogate.
Zero landing fees for new airlines locos for a year
Crazy thinking but show tHat your airport could have a real future get the public and managers together in a commite out of the box thinking.
Find a decent deal from a bus operator to bus holiday makers to the aiport to catch flights.
Hit the aereas with s questionnaire as to what key routes they want.
Beh ryanair to start vzero landing fees for a year. But improve the retail inside the airport to raise revenue for thw airport.
Push for routes that northeast airports dont have Copenhagen. Bergen
FRANKFURT.
And an Lhr or Gatwick link.
But we need to push n promote its potential by spreading the word comminity is about sharing so help your airport. Use it or loose it.
And if you dont want it n prefer Newcastle then say so.
Id welcome your klm operating from DSA.

[highwideandugly]

Nice to see the Polish community getting involved in our airport.

Are these questions? aimed at the local people or Peel?

I'm sorry we have been there many times.

BTW Google do a good translation add on.

[david.crosby]

How come Doncaster can still get 700,000 pax a year and compete against Leeds/Bradford. But DTVA can’t compete against NCL. I just don’t get it. Good news on the Thomson route which I will be using in June 2014. Come on Peel you can do it. Get one airline to base 1 aircraft at the airport and then it may attracted more airlines

[Northbound A1]

Johnnychips mentioned the rail stop, and the Echo have printed a reply from Peel.

Peter Nears says its a matter from the rail company.
Teesside Airport rail station passenger numbers drop - to 14 for an entire year (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10393327.Teesside_Airport_rail_station_passenger_numbers_dro p___to_14_for_an_entire_year/)

[N707ZS]

The rail stop needs moving nearer to the Oak Tree pub which is on the bus route. This rail line was wrecked by the last big rail sell off, I could go on but I cannot be bothered.

[Robert-Ryan]

onyxcrowle - you raise many good points and it's a shame there aren't more posts similar to yours because this is the attitude that's needed.

Have a look at the posts coming from those who want to see the airport close, then look at where they've listed their location as. More often than not they're geordies who know that if, in the unlikely event, DTVA was to get the significant investment it deserves and a new dynamic management team, their precious NCL would have a fight on their hands!

I think it's time the moderators had a good clean up of this thread and got rid of all the biased individuals who post pointless criticism just to cause trouble, and keep any posts that contain constructive criticism, which would probably be none.

[N707ZS]

I agree Robert, or if not just move the thread to jet blast!

[VentureGo]

No....! Chaps - This is not about North of the region v South (Geordies vs. Smoggies!) In fact .... Your response re. "Precious Newcasrtle" is part of the problem. Teeside is at most 50 minutes from NCL ... which could be much improved via reliable comfortable and Fast public transport. Central London to Heathrow via Tube is 50 minutes! - This is where investment should be made... then we can promote the NORTH EAST REGION! (I.E. TWEED to TEES.. as per Lord Adonis' report).. Have you read it?!.... (also posted on Newcastle thread)

[TSR2]

Teeside is at most 50 minutes from NCL ... which could be much improved via reliable comfortable and Fast public transport

Maybe therein lies the problem. Is there really enough demand to support two viable airports so close.

[johnnychips]

Maybe therein lies the problem. Is there really enough demand to support two viable airports so close.

Is Newcastle making money? If it is there is one viable and one unviable airport in the region.

I think VentureGo is suggesting that all efforts should be put into promoting Newcastle as the prime airport in the region, with good links to it from the Teeside area. The decision whether to close/expand an airport remains with the private companies owning them; however how much money is spent on infrastructure etc. is influenced by the local councils etc.

Lord Adonis suggested, incidentally, that better rail services are needed to the North-East. In the case of Newcastle to Manchester, this will happen with electrification. He suggested the link to Middlesbrough should be electrified as this is not part of the current proposals. He also wanted faster rail times from the region in general to London; but this is a long-term ambition as the line is near capacity at the moment.

[onyxcrowle]

For the post whos snidey offensive comment about me being polish can retract it with an apology pro to!!!, Im very sorry my typing is quite upto scratch. I tyoe these on an andriod phone and it was latw and I was ovrer tired.
But theres and obvious and distadtefull agenda it seems to bad mouth and seek out even the tiniest negative spin you can dig up re the airport.
Be proud of your community. Fight for your airport. Its part of your locaal economy. If you lost klm business may leave.
Your short sighted lets bash dtv. On a daily basis will only hasten a self forfulling prophecy.
So dont let that happen. Im British and pround if it . Born in leeds NOT poland.
So lets make that clear.
If you want to save dtv and the prospects that the Ams link brings there. If you want others like frankfurt. Do something about it petiton the airport. Nag them to do more destinations show then that theres the demand. Hassle their managers and local government. And be part of camerons big society.
But constantly sniping and putting the place down with pictures of caravans n camp fires can only mske it worse.
That post should be removed lest it finds its way to the press !.
So lets have a bit of decorum and more posts that might help save it!. Or find alternative solutions for its use.
And again to conffirm im white british. Ihave zero time for racism . And if my autocorrect types a few words incorrectly while im half asleep lets refrain from snidey and polish digs and keep this forum from the gutter.
I for one enjoy it.and it like it to stay genial and good place for genuine debate constructive or orherwise. And thanks to those that make all this popular.

[DTVAirport]

To answer Johnny Chips question Newcastle is not making money, their financial problems have been very well documented recently. They did refinance a couple of months ago but from what I can gather that's just a short-term fix and if the banks decided to call in the loans, I think they'd have a serious problem.

Yes DTVA makes a loss, but Peel simply offset it against the profits of other subsidiaries, or something like that, I'm not financially minded, but there is no debt whatsoever, nothing is owed to anyone.

Both airports are very viable and have significant potential in very different ways but for some reason, possibly partly due to politics, said potential never seems to get explored.

[Robert-Ryan]

VentureGo, I apologise for the "precious Newcastle" comment, there is a north / south divide within our region and I would love to see it disappear.

For the record though, the guilty parties I referred to in that post need to make the same apology but I can't see it happening somehow!

[fl dutchman]

New flight to Bourgas for summer 2014. (Mondays)

[SWBKCB]

Bourgas is presumably BGH? With this and the IBZ signs of a levelling off in passenger traffic. If these work the next step is to build the charter traffic and try to obtain a critical mass of those holiday travellers who spend a bit in the terminal to attract more shops, etc.

In the mean time, make what you can from the rest of the site - car park not being used? yes, rent it out for caravans! Hangar under utilised? encourage Sycamore and their dismantling business. These are exactly the sort of things DTVA needs to be doing.

Next test will be what happens with the RGF, especially if it gets refused - be interesting to see what Peel do then. So sure they're interested in the land, but I still believe its more valuable with an airport attached.

(Hope this is positive enough for somebody north of the Tyne!)

[highwideandugly]

come on guys..its been pretty miserable on here the last few years,All credit to Peel for keeping positive in the face of obvious mounting losses.

I know its difficult but a few light hearted posts keep us all going!!

Ibiza and now Bourgas is great news...come on those who can..keep the good news going!!

one not sycamore pretty quiet...what next please?

[DTVAirport]

Hope you're right about Bourgas, a superb couple of weeks for the airport if true! Having said that, I'm having trouble finding any trace of it on any of the usual news websites and it's only a couple of years ago (see page 66 of this thread) since the previous Bourgas route was dropped and was made to go via Glasgow before being axed?

[fl dutchman]

Try Travelmole news.

[SWBKCB]

Link here:

Eastern Europe specialist adds more flights (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2006280&c=setreg&region=2)

[tigertanaka]

As someone who lives locally and has flown in and out of MME on 16 occasions this year (8 trips) and has another 3 trips already booked, I desperately want the airport to thrive, if only for the selfish reason that I don't want to travel to Newcastle or Leeds/Bradford for my work trips.

With the airport losing money, Peel has clearly has to diversify to try and increase income. Whether the government funding to develop a freight terminal comes off or not, Peel has to attract more conventional flights from the airport.

Therefore they really have 4 options:

1) Charter flights
2) Business flights into a European hub
3) Business flights into specialist business airports
4) Low cost carriers

All of the above have to be done alongside protecting the KLM business, without which MME could well collapse. The only way to grow the business in the medium term appears to grow the charter flight business. LCCs will just demand tiny landing fees and flights to Frankfurt (which would be great for me) would just cut into KLM's existing business. I am no expert on business specific flights but others like Aberdeen would be interesting but not generate much revenue in terms of fees or spend in the shops.

I applaud the thrust of onyxcrowle's earlier post and his positive attitude. A successful local airport means only good things for the local economy. This is why the Ibiza and Bourgas news should be welcomed by all.

As an observation, I was in Darlington town centre over the weekend. Many travel agents had small promotions in their windows but I didn't notice one promoting the fact that customers could actually fly from an airport that was 10 minutes drive away.

[Mickey Kaye]

5. Make the airport attractive to GA

[VentureGo]

This suggests a reduction in UK airport numbers:
UK?s Regional Airports in Fight for Viability | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2013-05-03/uks-regional-airports-fight-viability)

Airport Consolidation Needed (extracted from attached link):

“He also claims that the UK–whose land area roughly equals that of California–has too many regional airports outside London and could better do with just eight: Bristol, Manchester, Newcastle and Southampton (in England): Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow (Scotland, excluding highland/island airports that enjoy public-service status); and Belfast (Northern Ireland). “

[SWBKCB]

Looks like somebody has just lifted his piece in the Times from late March/early April (unless he makes a habit of going around upsetting people...)

[Mike Tee]

Some good points there by tigertanka but regarding your observations in the Travel Agent's Windows, just where could prospective customers fly to from the airport 10 minutes drive away. "Our" airport is in a seriously bad place at the moment. Imagine two supermarkets, one is bulging at the seams with customers, shelves are overflowing with goods, with loads of choice and a vibrant atmosphere. The other one down the road has empty shelves, a glum atmosphere, entry by the back door and charges more for everything than the bright and cheery place up the road. It's not rocket science. Our saviour (KLM) consistantly charges a lump more for tickets from Teesside compared to Newcastle.

[DTVAirport]

As much as I agree KLM are expensive from MME, why would they lower their prices when they're filling enough seats to make a suitable profit?

[apaul]

I'm not sure why you are comparing KLM prices with Newcastle where there is competition and the airline has a lot more seats to sell. If you compare prices with Humberside KLM's fares are not higher from Durham Tees Valley.

[Mike Tee]

Anyone living north of the Tees is going to compare Teesside with Newcastle. Humberside dosen't really come into it. My sister who lives halfway between Teesside and Newcastle recently enquired about 6 seats to Bergen for a family wedding. The cost difference between Teesside and Newcastle for same day and roughly the same departure times was staggering, and that's without the extra £36 departure tax. The so called competion at Newcastle is a point to point airline, namely Easyjet and is of no use for anyone wanting to stage through Amsterdam to a final destination on the KLM network. If KLM charged the same from Teesside why would anyone want to travel the 100 miles round trip up to Newcastle.

[mmeman]

Looks like it is just a short programme of flights in August. Still better than nothing. Just now need a flight to Turkey which was always popular from MME.

[P330]

Firstly, let me stand up and say its great to hear some positive news about new routes from the airport - it is what is needed.

However....I'm not convinced this will do anything to increase annual passenger numbers as aren't we due to lose Tenerfie and Alicante from this coming winter?

In which, case we'll lose 2 and gain 1 and a bit....so the annualised trend when the numbers come out will be still be down?

Or am I missing something? In fact, is it clear TFS and ALC have gone?

[NCIS]

Hi - If you try booking on the Thomson Winter Programme site for DTVA you will eventually get the following message:
! Sorry! We don't fly from Durham Tees Valley during Winter 2013/14, please try another airport.

[davidjohnson6]

Doing a back of the envelope calculation...
In 2012, MME saw the following passengers to Spanish airports
Alicante - 7,758 (all charter)
Palma - 9,058 (all charter)
Tenerife - 8,000 (all charter)

The planned Ibiza flights will like the Palma flights be a 1x weekly trip for the same number of weeks in the summer. We might guess that the Ibiza route will perhaps have roughly the same number of passengers as Palma - so MME-Spain in 2014 might gain about 9,058 passengers in summer, while MME loses 15,758 passengers in the winter, compared to 2012

Net result - loss of about 6,750 passengers to/from Spain or about 4% of annual passenger load in 2014 compared to 2012

[P330]

Thanks David....this is as I suspected.

So good news yes, but sadly the new announcements don't even replace the losses we are set to see over the winter months.

[highwideandugly]

interesting summary.With nothing extra planned does anyone think there may be restricted opening hours to come?

Looks like we hold even...ish for 2014...now for 2015!!

[SWBKCB]

Doing a back of the envelope calculation...
In 2012, MME saw the following passengers to Spanish airports
Alicante - 7,758 (all charter)
Palma - 9,058 (all charter)
Tenerife - 8,000 (all charter)

The planned Ibiza flights will like the Palma flights be a 1x weekly trip for the same number of weeks in the summer. We might guess that the Ibiza route will perhaps have roughly the same number of passengers as Palma - so MME-Spain in 2014 might gain about 9,058 passengers in summer, while MME loses 15,758 passengers in the winter, compared to 2012

Net result - loss of about 6,750 passengers to/from Spain or about 4% of annual passenger load in 2014 compared to 2012

And assuming Winter 14/15 is the same as 13/14?

[NCIS]

I would assume that the return of Thomson for Winter 2014/15 would depend on their analysis of passenger data for their other northern airports during 2013/14. How many previous customers booked out of their other airports? How many customers came from the Teesside catchment area. How many did they lose by not using Teesside. It's all a question of balance. If they lost enough to make reinstating the flights viable then they might do so. If the bulk of their regular customers were happy to fly from another airport - and have a much wider choice of destinations - then bye-bye Thomson for the winter!

[N707ZS]

These winter flights were almost full for the past few years there must be an oportunity for someone to come in and operate them, but we have said this for other flights.

The flights to the sand pit seem to have stopped so that could be another loss of passenger numbers and revenue.

[GAXLN]

First rule of airline economics: A full flight does not necessarily mean an airline (or tour operator) has made any money. Simply, volume x yield = revenue against which operating costs and overhead etc. are offset in the hope of making money. Now which investor was it who said "If only someone had shot the Wright Brothers down at Kittyhawk?"

[highwideandugly]

Quote..... Now which investor was it who said "If only someone had shot the Wright Brothers down at Kittyhawk...probably someone from Peel !!

[Northbound A1]

DTV press release.
Peter Nears says he's got 120 pages to look through about passenger tax.
http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/press-releases

Vince Cables in the north east today handing out RGF money, did Peel win any on their bid?

[Keyvon]

Shame still no holiday flights to Turkey for the coming summer seasons, in spite of the big popularity this destination has proven in the recent past.

[onyxcrowle]

Time to make a deal with the Devil offer Easyjet Ryanair and Norweigan almost zero landing fees and in return theyd have to bring lots routes at once.
Domestic, Ireland.
And perhaps Ezy. Lets see some competition.
For every new route given for the period of one year the airport should pay the apd and scrap the passenger tax.
Fix the retail. Tidy up n hope it works..
After all Ryr would probably be interested in suxh a deal and ditto the same for Dsa

[DTVAirport]

onyxcrowle, the terms and conditions you just described is exactly what every UK airport offers a prospective airline already anyway!

[davidjohnson6]

Cabby - perhaps a little embarassing to have a webcam showing a runway that is empty for much of the day ?

[jetstar.8]

Cabby-You could watch the grass grow and the Tumbleweed
blow down the runway :rolleyes:

[ILS32]

This thread is beginning to look like Spotters Corner.

[ericlday]

Little else going on there so a few spotters add a bit of light (or Biz) reading.

[Beafer]

Heard about this at the local pub.

A think tank research group has issued a 200+ page report into what it calls legal tax avoidance by a certain company.

ExUrbe states that Peel have 320 registered companies and that there is "no doubt that legal tax avoidance is being practised"

Page 2 of the press article.
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2013/03/14/think-tank-questions-influence-of-peel-holdings-and-warns-liverpool-becoming-one-company-town-99623-32983337/2/

Part of the article.

Peel declined to make any comment on the ExUrbe report.

"Complex web of Peel companies exposed by think tank Exurbe



PEEL has 320 registered companies and subsidiaries in the UK, according to the Exurbe research.

The think tank said there is “no doubt” Peel practices legal tax avoidance.
It notes that this is not uncommon for a conglomerate but makes probing into its “labyrinthine” affairs difficult.

Its ultimate parent company is called Tokenhouse Limited, registered off shore in the tax haven of the Isle of Man.

And the ultimate controlling entity of Peel’s companies is the Billown Trust, established by chairman John Whittaker.

The Billown Trust owns 73% of Peel.
The remainder of Peel is owned by Saudi Arabian firm the Olayan Group.

Olayan has a vast array of interests across the globe.

Exurbe’s report also poses the question as whether Peel practices ‘Predatory Capitalism or Providential Corporatism’?

After examining the company’s modus operandi in 200-plus pages Exurbe leaves open the question and says ultimately it is for the reader to decide."

[SWBKCB]

And the point is? If that's the most damning part of a 200-page report, not much!

[davidjohnson6]

Many companies try to minimise their tax bill - it's why big accountancy firms hire so many bright graduates each year - go look up 'careers in tax advisory' at a firm like KPMG if you don't believe me.
Peel is a large company - DTV is just a small part in their operations.

[SWBKCB]

Transport hub needed at Durham Tees Valley if passengers are to return, airport owners claim (From The Northern Echo) (http://thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10401134.Transport_hub_needed_at_Durham_Tees_Valley_if_passe ngers_are_to_return__airport_owners_claim/?ref=nt)

If the owners want a transport hub, perhaps they should build one...

Simples!

[Fairdealfrank]

Exactly what's needed: move the station nearer the airport, and have trains stop there.

Public transportation to/from MME was appalling in 2008 (last visit), doubt if it's any better now.

Guess it's the old chestnut: no demand so it isn't done; it isn't done, so there's no demand.

[Hipennine]

Presumably, if the public transport is inadequate, the demand is manifesting itself in excess demands for the car parking, or should I say caravan parking ?

Funny how EDI, GLA, LBA, LPL, EMA, etc. aren't in such a parlous state as MME, even though they haven't had more taxpayers £'s spent on having any rail facilities.

[ILS32]

The LBA doesn't have a transport hub.If you fly from the LBA you use your own or a friends transport, a taxi or the bus.The lack of a transport hub doesn't stop nearly 3 million passengers using the airport. Peel are claiming that a lack of a transport hub is the reason that they can't compete with the likes of Newcastle and Manchester.what utter rubbish.You build your passenger base first with airlines and routes.You have to be able to fly your passengers to destination that they want to go to.Once you have sufficient numbers then it might be feasible to look at building a transport hub but that is way into the future.Unless a transport hub is sustainable then there is no way that the finance would be available.to build it.Another Peel red herring

[mmeman]

Wonder why no one has mentioned the passenger figures for April?

A 5.9% increase over last year.

Aberdeen a 2% increase over last year, and more passengers than Newcastle by a couple of hundred.

Amsterdam down by 4% but there must have been a charter last year, scheduled numbers down by about 200.

Alicante - 3 times more passengers than last year and Tenerife slightly down by 22 passengers.

Not too bad.

[jetstar.8]

not to bad

annual total looks like it could be the worst passenger figures for
40 years :ugh:

[onyxcrowle]

The economy is very slightly picking up.
So maybe we need to give more credit to The government.
We all make good arm chair politicians. But look how old n ill they get and loose the youthfull optimism after a while ( Blair never did).
What needs to happen to help ALL airport's.
Two choices. Keep Apd. Raise it 2% For example for the highest passanger figure airport's.
Have a sliding scale of charges going down the airports leaderboard.
Smaller operations like Dtv Dsa Huy (quiet as Dtv aint they?).
Would pay no duty.
Or these new breed of startup airports Cambridge n Oxford et al.
A government Subsidy for domestic routes and routes to Amsterdam. Or frankfurt.
That would drive the prices down n hopefully bring in the airlines..
Give an regional development fund style payment to the struggling airport's for abfixed period of say seven to Ten years.
Hell offer Ryanair a grant from the fund to bring a few new routes ditto others such as easyJet
Then set a limit to how long rhe grant apllies.
If a route worked had high numbers thw grant would formally cease.
Now thats when it would be interesting Would Ryanair stay or go.
The government could also nationalise an airport like they did with rail.
Put in Baa. Etc .
There has to be out of the box thinking to fix this.
Its not just Dtv. Its airports all over.
If we must have apd scrap it and replace it with an air movement's tax..
How much revenue is lost from the nightly mail flights Ema is crawling all day n night with cargo flights.
Tax then..
Have a token negligiblely small Ga tax. And theb suddenly in come more revenue. .
Or scrap Apd.
Or increase the passenger fee at dtv and others by 1 or 2 pounds.
Divide that over the month and pay it to the airlines as a sweetner to come to the airport n try some routes.
Make it mandatory for such routes to the hubs to be timed to acrually allow onward connection with time to spare.
Or..
Scrap
Apd
Passanger tax
Lobby governance
For a bailout repayble when the recovery has happened
All airports should be viable.
And network rail should partner with the airports to determine needed rail passanger and freight links.
Dtv will recover but id bet slowly but steadily.
Im honestly expecting someone like Vueling or some other new loco to come knocking

[SWBKCB]

Is this some sort of free style prose arts project?

[davidjohnson6]

This might be one for the rail fans out there, but could someone tell me why the train station at DTV has been put into its almost closed state ?
I understand that with few passengers, the local train firm no interest in stopping there, but the UK legal procedure for closing part of the railway network means it's simpler to just serve the station once per week and maintain the fantasy that the station remains open and served by trains - i.e. a parliamentary or ghost station.

What puzzles me, is that the station is not a branch line or terminus - even if the station was closed, the trains on the line would still have to go past DTV's train station. I accept that for a train to slow down, stop for a minute and then accelerate again takes a little bit of time and costs a little bit of money in extra fuel used, but are these extra costs really that high ? Why was DTV's train station not turned into a request stop as is the case with some stations in rural parts of Wales and Scotland ?

[LTNman]

So was the station put there in the first place to serve the airport?

With investment could not a Southend style terminal and apron be built by the station?

[N707ZS]

There are more stations on this line that don't get many trains stopping not long ago you could get a train to Dinsdale and then catch the bus to the airport. The whole mess was something to do with the rail privatisation. On the same track you can no longer go on the original train journey, Stockton to Darlington, you have to go via Middlesbrough.

[N707ZS]

Two yes's LTNman. Peel own all of the land near the station.

[SWBKCB]

So that's were DTVA have been going wrong - just re-develop the station, build a new terminal and apron near to it, the passengers will flood in and the airlines will be flocking to serve them.

If Peel think it's too big a risk, I'm sure there are plenty of people on Pprune ready to lend them the money.... :ugh:

[Hipennine]

I vaguely remember when the new Teesside Airport halt was constructed and opened at public expense, and was served by a United single decker bus connecting to the terminal.

I also remember travelling many times on the train between Darlo and Yarm, and stopping at Teesside Airport where nobody got on or off, and said bus sat there forlornly empty.

Then the bus got binned, and the alternative of Dinsdale was tried as a sop to objectors. The privatised rail company took the view that there was no point inconveniencing all the users of the train who didn't want to go to Teesside Airport having their daily commutes interrupted by 2 or 3 minutes each way while the train pointlessly stopped there. The direct bus service from Darlo station (much faster than changing trains at Darlo for MME station plus the bus link) also failed.

The station with direct terminal bus-link failed when pax numbers were much higher and there was less access to car ownership. Why on earth would it make any difference today, with lower pax numbers, greater car ownership (and the airport having an underutilised car park) ?

And let's face it, the rail route between Darlo and Teesside conurbation is hardly an example of modern high-speed frequent inter-urban travel. It would take a damn sight more investment than just a revamped Durham Tees Valley Airport station to upgrade the entire travel experience as a genuine alternative that compares with NCL's metro service, BHX International, MAN airport, and etc stations. And for how many potential passengers per day ? There are far more deserving public transport projects in the NE looking for funding.

[Andy_S]

With investment could not a Southend style terminal and apron be built by the station?

My bold. Investment being the operative word. The thing about investment is that the people who make it want to make a return on it. That would only happen if the new facilities significantly ramped up passenger demand.

I think anyone who knows the place understands that it's not the facilities or public transport connections that are the problem

[NCIS]

Hi All - There was a spell where a small battery driven bus ran from the station to the Terminal. The Arriva Durham County express bus was called the 'Sky Express' pic: Arriva North East: 1762 NK05GVZ Dennis Dart SLF/Alexander | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/4373267158) Even after the renaming of the airport the train station has remained as Teesside Airport to this day. Cheers.

[tony jarrett]

I think they should develop it into a Pilot training hub maintenance hub, a parting out hub and cargo hub, Port is nearby good road system, and a railway line nearby . Could transform hanger 4 and old hanger by station into a air and rail museum, Could have a sim centre for the public to simulate flying different types of aircraft.... failing all that turn it into a motor racing track

[EK77WNCL]

If jet2 had a handfull of 735's...

None less than perfect for the likes Coventry and Durham Tees Valley.

[Hipennine]

" failing all that turn it into a motor racing track"

Oh yes, the residents of Middleton St George would love that - Croft on one side and Teesside on the other !

Isn't one of MME's problems that it has NCL just up the road - replace one competitor with a nearer one - genius. However, if there's public funding for it, Peel might jump at the idea.

[N707ZS]

Head of health and safety. The old saying "too many chiefs and not enough Indians come to mind". Especially ones flying in planes.

Airport appoints safety chief (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10447553.Airport_appoints_safety_chief/)

[SWBKCB]

Humberside Airport secures Spain flights and plans Malaga, Menorca and Faro next | This is Hull and East Riding (http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Humberside-Airport-deal-brings-popular-flights/story-19121673-detail/story.html#axzz2UhWbJdcp)

Stolen from the 'Humberside' thread - shows a bit of ambition, time to put your money where your mouth is?

[N707ZS]

Good luck to Humberside but the comments are not very good underneath.

[SWBKCB]

It's the catch-22 of many small airports - you need the passenger throughput to attract the retail to reduce the costs to lower the charges to attract the passengers etc, etc,

What HUY seem to be doing is trying to kick start this process and show others that the market is there. They now need to stress the convenience of the local airport and get the service side right (which from the comments hasn't been got right in the past!)

[pug]

Regarding the comments on the link. Whilst clearly some may have had bad experiences at HUY in the past, the general consensus is that the website is plagued by wind up merchants.

The proof is really how well the flights are selling now and have done in the past. So there is clearly the demand there in the local area.

[David Thompson]

Some good news ;

Aerospace firm safeguards North-East jobs after £165m deal (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10449272.Aerospace_firm_safeguards_North-East_jobs_after_%C2%A3165m_deal/)

[davidjohnson6]

David Thompson - claiming that the continuation of what currently happens at DTV as good news might be seen as setting the bar rather low. Others might consider continuation just neutral news and expect good news to imply some form of improvement or increase in scope.

[SWBKCB]

In the context of DTVA's recent history, the continuing presence of one of the company's major customers (and 90 good quality jobs) most certainly counts as good news.

[NorthSouth]

Another new chief

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Head of health and safety. The old saying "too many chiefs and not enough Indians come to mind". Especially ones flying in planes.

Airport appoints safety chief (From The Northern Echo) Interesting. The wording used seems to indicate this is a new post. Now, if you're one of the worst-performing airports in the country and your only hope of survival is radical cost-cutting, why would you spend an extra, what, £150,000 a year on a new manager? I can think of only one reason for that - because the regulator has told you to.
NS

[skyman771]

NorthSouth
..why would you spend an extra, what, £150,000 a year on a new manager?
Where do get this from,:= .... more like £50k & that's optomistic !

[NorthSouth]

I highly doubt he's being paid £50k. But the costs to an employer of employing a manager, especially creating a post that did not previously exist, go way beyond the salary received by the individual. You have employer's NI contributions, pension and other benefits, and the costs of running the new office which may well include additional secretarial support etc.
NS

[Robert-Ryan]

Looks like a company operating two twin-prop aircraft, "IAS Medical", are setting up shop at DTVA, source is the DTV Movements website.

Every little helps and all that...

[highwideandugly]

great news about the medical set up..just what we need!!!

Rumour has it Newcastle were favourites but not for the first time priced themselves out of the market!

With new flights for 2014 and Cobhams committing then things are looking up???

any news on more scrap-age flights? it seems to have gone rather quiet there?

keep up the good work!!!!!

[Northbound A1]

Every little helps.

Looked up IAS Medical and they used to be at Samsons at Newcastle.
JournalLive - News - Today's News - Transplant aircraft based at Newcastle Airport (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2010/07/06/transplant-aircraft-based-at-newcastle-airport-61634-26793678/)

IAS Medical site news.
IAS Medical News (http://www.iasmedical.com/news/)

Is this a 24hr operation?
How will the winter ops go when the airport closes at 10pm and there is no fire cover, will it go back to Newcastle?

[SWBKCB]

Saw that news story at the time and was a bit puzzled, as there hasn't been a 'medical' King Air based at NCL before or since - plenty of visitors (and as NA1 implies, some at very odd hours), so hope the DTVA story is a bit substantial.

[N707ZS]

George Ditchburn used to work for Northern Aviation.

[Charlie98]

I was wondering why she came into MME from Calgary? Military transport?

[Lancelot37]

Correct - Military transport

[DTVAirport]

It can't be a military transport as it's still registered to the civilian company Airtanker Ltd and carries a civilian registration.

[NorthSouth]

They're the RAF's new privatised tanker-transports. At a guess I'd say this one was probably taking Catterick-based troops back from exercise at the British Army Training Unit Suffield (BATUS) in Canada.
NS

[onion]

DTVAirport, this article explains why the civil registration.
AirTanker?s first flight as an airline « AirTanker (http://www.airtanker.co.uk/news/airtanker%e2%80%99s-first-flight-as-an-airline)

[highwideandugly]

only two schedules continue downward path..KLM -4% for May.

the odd charter keeping DTV figures in the black.

Should we be worried??

[OldManJoe]

One does wonder what the top management team are actually doing to ensure the airport survives.
Wonder if they'd be willing to have an open meeting and answer questions from joe public.

[mmeman]

It clearly is very difficult to attract new routes to the airport, although there are small signs of a slight upturn with Ibiza and Bulgaria next year. The Jersey flight has been on a Embraer 170, rather than the Dash 8 so far, don't know if that is an indication of an increase in demand?

You also have to look at how successful the neighbours appear to be. Leeds has had a successful month in May and Newcastle too - also look at the passenger figures from Newcastle on the 2 scheduled routes from MME - Amsterdam and Aberdeen both up by over 30% on last year..must make it very difficult to retain the passengers on the flights from MME with such competition - although they do seem to hold up Aberdeen only had 60 passenegrs less than last year, although Amsterdam was down by 4%. Might be a bit conspiracy theory but has Newcastle deliberatly targeted these routes to 'hurt' the fights from MME? (Aberdeen has always had more passengers from MME so why didn't Eastern start extra flights from here?)

I just don't know if they should scrap the £6 fee and get Ryanair in,if no one else is willing, and get people back to flying from MME!

[10 DME ARC]

Might be a bit conspiracy theory but has Newcastle deliberatly targeted these routes to 'hurt' the fights from MME? (Aberdeen has always had more passengers from MME so why didn't Eastern start extra flights from here?)

Dear.......dear........Straw's.........

[highwideandugly]

Dont think Newcastle has much say in persuading airlines to operate from there instead of here? But it is a worring downward trend.rember KLM/DTV much vaunted publicity about a new beginning etc at DTV? well that certainly worked!


More simple reasons probably...its a flippin useless airport and too far gone :ugh: !

[N707ZS]

A distant rumour was travel agents used to get more money to sell Newcastle possibly the reason for Newcastle's debt problem.

Here we go again slinging dirt!

[N707ZS]

On the up side the scrap man has his latest victim.

http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/images/Salvage%20Aircraft/FGFKV/rb_fgfkv.jpg

[Beafer]

Saw that one land. It must be a photo illusion but the right engine looks like its hanging down compared to the other one?
Bet its even lower now ;)

[SWBKCB]

Erm, don't they have planning permission for industrial units on the southside so there would be something wrong if they weren't talking to builders, or do you specifically mean house builders??

[Beafer]

I heard that Hughey is having a ball at the local hospital trust in which he is described as a key driver :cool:
Meet the board | South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust (http://southtees.nhs.uk/about/board/)
http://southtees.nhs.uk/content/uploads/Hugh-Lang-web-220x140.jpg
Hugh Lang

Non-executive member

Hugh Lang became group airports director of Peel Airports Group in 2008, with responsibility for the management and operation of Liverpool John Lennon Airport, Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport and Durham Tees Valley Airport.
In both his airport capacity and as Chairman of Tees Valley Unlimited (the governing body of the Tees Valley City region), Mr Lang has particular interests in the long term economic development of the region and the key drivers required to deliver positive growth.
:bored:

[Travel Agent]

A distant rumour was travel agents used to get more money to sell Newcastle possibly the reason for Newcastle's debt problem.

Lol, what a load of C**p.... Tour Operators maybe get incentives but Travel Agents get a set commission from tour ops for all airports.

[N707ZS]

Thanks for mythbusting the rumour Travel Agent.

And I thought Hugh Lang was long gone from Peel. Almost thought I saw him on a recent IKEA advert :}

[onion]

Travel Agent, why then did travel agents always push NCL over MME? This is from personal experience over several years. When I knew the service was there from MME did the travel agent always suggest a search of NCL, MAN/LBA and the MME? This wasn't isolated many people have had the same experience! Just to let you know this isn't a new thing my experiences happened 10+ years back and were in Darlington and Richmond!
I'm not saying they got paid more to push NCL over MME, but it did happen and right on MME's door step so to speak!

[GayFriendly]

onion, I think that sort of thing happens a lot - I recently enquired at a city centre long haul specialist travel agent about flights to New York for July and was immediately given prices from LHR instead of BHX, despite there being a daily UA BHX-EWR flight. To be fair, LHR flights were cheaper than UA from BHX so that's probably why they were offered first but you would have thought they would have looked at BHX first and then LHR.

Obviously it's frustrating and those who are not so route knowledgeable will go for the first flight they are offered and assume that a flight to the same destination is not available from their local airport. Maybe there were big differences in prices between MME and NCL when you enquired, to be honest I would have thought NCL flights were probably cheaper?

[davidjohnson6]

It's the weekend and I've had a chance to crunch the CAA stats again:
Overall message - NCL is growing much more healthily than DTV

DTV had 13,801 pax in May, up 1.3 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 173 pax
DTV rolling year has 163,811 pax

NCL had 407,859 pax in May, up 4.0 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 15,712 pax
NCL rolling year has 4,381,899 pax

In May 2012, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 28.8 passengers at NCL
In May 2013, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 29.6 passengers at NCL
As an additional reference, in May 2009 (i.e. post credit crunch), for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 15.2 passengers at NCL

Aberdeen route for May
DTV - 3,135 pax, down 2% from 3,195 pax, meaning a loss of 60 passengers
NCL - 2,860 pax, up 35% from 2,122 pax, meaning a gain of 738 passengers

Palma route for May
DTV - 1,230 pax, up 2% from 1,207 pax meaning a gain of 23 passengers
NCL - 30,658 pax, up 4% from 29,442 pax meaning a gain of 1,216 passengers

Amsterdam route for May
DTV - 8,048 pax, down 4% from 8,406 pax meaning a loss of 358 passengers
NCL - 30,343 pax, up 34% from 22,641 pax meaning a gain of 7,702 passengers

Note - Easyjet began flying NCL-AMS 5x weekly from Dec 2012.

On a Europe-wide basis, Easyjet saw a load factor in May of 88.1%
Easyjet flew NCL-AMS on 23 days in May. Using, a 156-seat A319 with 88.1% load factor (ie average of 137.4 pax turn up for a flight), we get 6,320 passengers, which falls far short of the NCL-AMS route being up by 7,702 passengers - this suggests KLM are seeing passenger numbers up by 6% on the NCL-AMS route, in contrast to DTV-AMS being down 4%
Even if we assume Easyjet had a 100% load factor, KLM are still seeing NCL doing significantly better year-on-year compared to MME

Thus KLM is seeing a clear shift by passengers from MME to NCL, even if Easyjet are seeing 100% load factors on their NCL-AMS route.

[DTVAirport]

The travel agent problem has been ongoing for decades, whether it's down to financial incentives or not, they are clearly biased towards NCL.

During the start-up phase of the FoDTVA group it was planned that their members would go into the various travel agents and act as mystery shoppers but other things have since taken priority, perhaps it's time they looked back into this.

[onion]

GayFriendly, to be honest NCL were on occasions cheaper but it was 50/50! Sometimes and on the last occasion flying into PMI it was around £50 cheaper to fly from MME. Plus when it came down to it I always found it cheaper to fly from MME in the end after costs added on. It was always strange. For instance Richmond is about as close to NCL as it is to LBA time wise but they always without fail offered NCL first. It maybe that staff aren't trained properly! On occasions I had to give the IATA code for MME to them as they weren't sure of it!

[SWBKCB]

Use of the word bias suggests that travel agents are acting unfairly or irrationally towards MME.

There might be any number of reasons price, previous customer experience (i.e. you offer 10 customers MME 1st then NCL 2nd and 9 of them chose NCL, what would you offer customer 11??), timings, etc

Might be useful for FoDTVA to do some (unbiased:E) research to find out whats going on.

[SealinkBF]

I was a travel agent for years and a tour operator called Seguro started offering holidays from Prestwick; as did Laker Vacations in the 90s.

They did pay us more commission as they were new to the market; and so we did recommend them. But we always checked what was on offer from Glasgow too.

So maybe a tour operator that flies from Newcastle but not Tees-side is offering more commissions?

Also, flight times are a consideration; as is the knowledge of the travel agent.

For example, don't expect Thomas Cook travel agents to recommend a Thomson Holiday from Tees-Side if Thomas Cook have a Newcastle option. And vv.

[onion]

SealinkBF I have never flown out of MME in the middle of the night and actually avoided it. To suggest I am stupid enough to go into a Thomson travel agent and expect them to push Thomas Cook holidays is a little insulting!
I am not trying to be funny but travel agents in what should be prime MME catchment areas pushed NCL and LBA over MME! I was there! I am not a spotter or some kind of MME supporting nutter! I ve agreed that price wise NCL on occasions has been cheaper but in my experience and others I have spoken too, travel agents push NCL and LBA over MME. Either they are getting some sort of incentive or are being pushed by their tour operator or they are unaware that flights are available from MME, which I think is more likely!

[highwideandugly]

Interesting discussion...are we talking historical here as the only destinations from MME remain Alicante/Palma/tenerife...so you can only compare to three destinations really.If Newcastle say have 20 flights to each and teesside only one to each(per week) then its obvious(to me) that NCL will probably always be cheaper? Supply and demand. Correct me if wrong but I think there are no holiday type flights this winter? and only a token Ibiza next year? So figures will continue to slide giving Peel ample reason to pull the plug?

More worrying as I said in a previous post is slow decline of the core routes,ABZ and AMS. This cant be good?

[skyman771]

highwideandugly
More worrying as I said in a previous post is slow decline of the core routes,ABZ and AMS.
Absolutely the most relevant item on the last few threads.
One can pontificate all day as to the existence & effect of specific incentives. However you need to reduce all this down to marketing & the strength of the product.
a)You can palm anything off on an ignorant punter, tell them that the best option to destination "X" is out of airport "Y". However a more informed punters aware of the existence of potential alternatives, are likely to enquire "what about service/route that they had noted" ?
& b) unfortunately for DTV it's not always down to absolute price, but more about customer experience, timings, & convenience.
Getting back to the current issues, then on the presumption that KL & DTV have put the necessary resource into a) then the effect of b) is driving figures forward at NCL at the expence of DTV.
Unfortunately there would appear to be virtually nothing that DTV can do in the short term to address this.:(
Post Script I noted the progress of "HL" with interest & perhaps staying in a hospital environment is the best place for him, albeit without "KQ" as nurse;)

[CentreFix25]

It's also cheaper to fly KLM from NCL than it is from MME due to the competition on the route at NCL. This can't be helping the numbers at MME.

[10 DME ARC]

Please this is becoming embarrassing!!

When Airtours moved lock stock and barrel to Teesside long haul inc, travel agents were offered double commission to book from Teesside and still couldn't turn people away from NCL!! I remember the posters all over Sunderland telling me Teesside was my local airport!! Then the horror stories of friends being duped to fly from MME as no other flights existed from NCL!! Never mind the people who got lost trying to get there!!

Travel agents are probably used to the much larger amount of holidays available from NCL and so go there first??

Plus how many people use travel agents these days?? Does NCL make people not press the Teesside button??

[Northbound A1]

Doesn't really matter how much a travel agent gets if there are no routes to offer. Do NCL charge a £6 fee to use their airport? :ugh:

[skyman771]

"Northbound"
Well said :D
Looking forward then the £6 fee has to come off if DTV have any hope in attracting Loco's, & travel agents can't sell services to destinations that don't exist:{

[davidjohnson6]

Would have thought people would be rather more concerned about a sustained wholesale shift by the local population away from DTV in favour of Newcastle on Aberdeen, Amsterdam and Palma...
In effect, DTV is now so weak and sickly that Newcastle is now nibbling away at the healthy bits of DTV carcass as part of its lunch.

If market share in NE England cannot be retained on the major existing routes, particularly Amsterdam, then you can forget any new locos

[Northbound A1]

According to this newspaper article Bagby which is down the road from DTV have been doing very well in movements.
If the numbers are cut after Mr Pickles lot have their say it may benefit DTV, but will they all have to pay a £6 charge as well?
Inquiry into controversial airfield resumes as FoI request reveals council has spent nearly £50k on the process (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10507263.Inquiry_into_controversial_airfield_resumes_as_FoI_ request_reveals_council_has_spent_nearly___50k_on_the_proces s/)

Knowing Peel they will probably charge £12 :bored:

[Beafer]

26th June 2013 Question, "Peel what have you done at DTV?"

Peel answer, "Not a lot"

Questions asked of Durham Tees Valley airport executives (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10509603.Questions_asked_of_Durham_Tees_Valley_airport_execu tives/)

Peter Foster the ex duty officer and member of the local council reps stated that the only movements were caravans.

Mr Foulds left the meeting halfway through :=

Not much respect there then.

[SWBKCB]

Questions asked of Durham Tees Valley airport executives (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10509603.Questions_asked_of_Durham_Tees_Valley_airport_execu tives/)

"...Andy Foulds, commercial director at Peel Airports, revealed that DTV planned to trial flights to Bulgaria for one month in August 2014..." :eek:

and the caravans are back...

“There is more advertising about those caravans all around Darlington and Durham, saying ‘come and park your caravan at the airport’ than there is about flights.”

[SWBKCB]

Mr Foulds left the meeting halfway through

Not much respect there then.

Agreed - I wonder what else was so important?

[DTVAirport]

I highly doubt he ignorantly up and left the meeting because he doesn't like the way it was going, for all you know he might have had a meeting with an airline to go to!

Chances are, he did in fact have somewhere more important to be.

[Beafer]

:D
Or he didnt like the committee's questions and had a caravan owner to meet.
I hope the press can ask the questions that the committee didnt get answers on. I wonder if he will walk out on them as well?

[Lancelot37]

What sort of business man organises two meetings which overlap? More like the questions were too hard hitting. Peel have been a failure or were they wise and want to shut the place and reap the money for the land?

[DTVAirport]

The sort of businessman who perhaps has no choice because of the second parties commitments?

You're all being a little harsh, Peel earn their criticism at the best of times but there's easily more than one reasonable explanation for him having to leave!

[SWBKCB]

Whether he didn't like the way the meeting was going or not, its now been reported that he was unable to answer questions from a significant shareholder and representatives of his customers as he left the meeting early.

Poor show. :=

[papa oscar]

Yada yada yada...... None of you were at the meeting and are simply taking what a reporter wrote as the whole and full account.

I was there! Andy Foulds stepped in to attend the meeting when the original person couldn't make it due to other, more important commitments.
Andy advised at before the start of the would have to leave the meeting at approx 1pm to attend other more important meetings.

The meeting started at 12 noon, so there was ample time for anyone to ask questions and receive answers.

The questions were raised after Andy Foulds had left the meeting. He did not get up and walk out of the meeting because of any questions being asked.

The committee decided that questions would be put in writing to the airport to achieve a written response.

Members of the public are allowed to come and observe the meeting, so next time, why not go and observe the meeting and get the full facts rather than relying on what a biased reporter has written in the local rag.

By the way, the questions being raised were mostly answered at the meeting by others. They simply wanted a written response from Peel.

Please do remember that some people have their own hidden agenda!!

[Beafer]

So the first important Peel person failed to show so Mr Foulds stepped in but fails to stay the course.

It just shows why airlines dont want to know Peel. Total lack of respect for the council reps or the shareholders who sold DTV to Peel for £500k. Still cant believe that price!

Shame you couldnt answer the questions for Peel if you where at the meeting papa oscar. Did Mr Fould expect the questions to be asked later in the meeting? is that what normally occurs. I seem to remember that Peel didnt give any answers at a previous council meeting which was in the Echo.

Out of interest, were Peel the only company Hugh put forward as prospective buyers as I have since heard that other companies were rejected out of hand by Hugh and Hugh alone.
It smells a bit to me :confused:

[SWBKCB]

I've always found the Northern Echo to be un-critical of DTVA. Presumably the DTVA PR office will be swinging into action to correct the impression that's been given.

And is the original person who couldn't make it due to other, more important commitments the same one who is constantly prompting the local community to rally around the airport?

[papa oscar]

Beafer, why would I answer the questions asked to Peel. I don't work for them.

SWBKCB, no.

[Northbound A1]

£19m in the kitty according to latest DTV accounts.
Caravans will make it 20m next year ;)

Had a look at the important people who may have not turned up at the important meeting and noticed a George Dunning who is a director!

Is this the same George D who is also the head of redcar and cleveland council???
Accounts and all directors.
DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT LIMITED of M17 8PL in MANCHESTER ENGLAND (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/durham-tees-valley-airport)

[OldManJoe]

Wonder what goes on in these meetings. Might pop along to the next one. Anyone know how we find out when and where it is.

Looking at your link Northbound, it seems that each of the councils that have shares in the airport have a nominated person as the shareholder/director as most on there are councillors. They seem to change on a regular basis.

[N707ZS]

I here the old RAF water tower bit the dust recently, path for a new road.

[Beafer]

So lets get this right,
Peel airports who have all of these head councillors on their board of directors at DTVA, gave the same councils a dilution notice in 2011 stating that if the same councillors didnt give Peel more millions, Peel would then take shares off the councils! (Public) which happened.

Something sounds very wrong about these deals and demands. It looks like Peel are benefitting to the tune of many millions, and the public are losing out.

Bob Cook leader of Stockton council is also listed as a director and they are the lead council who deal with Peel.

A Darlington council spokesman at the time of this press article stated "we do not intend to recomend to invest" (which meant they would hand over shares to Peel)
Fears for future of Durham Tees Valley Airport - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/fears-future-durham-tees-valley-3678173)

Someone is getting very rich out of all of this and the airport valuable land which the councils (public) USED to own just over ten years ago is now nearly all owned by Peel.

£4.3m demanded by Peel or give us your shares (2011)
Peel serve councils ‘dilution notice’ on Durham Tees Valley Airport : Durham Tees Valley Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/durham-tees-valley-airport-news-101211.html)

From what I can see it was all with the help of councillors who are also directors on the board of Peel at DTV.

I think the police need to look at this case as you can not serve 2 masters.
Forget watergate, its going to be DTVGATE.

[yeo valley]

well beafer that just about sums it up just right .not a case of who you know as to what you know. hope it all gets sorted quickly.

[davidjohnson6]

beafer - I somehow doubt Peel would want to engage in activities that would involve crimibal charges and the poluce. I think it's rather more likely that we're looking at an airport which is simply failing because there just aren't enough people in Teesside who will pay enough money to fly sufficiently often when Newcastle is nearby.

Typically when a company loses its customers it will eventually go bust and close. DTV is no different from any other company

[LNIDA]

Nothing illegal here, if due to losses DTV needs more capital injected then that must fall to the share holders, if they include local council, then they must stump up the cash or see a dilution of their share holding as a % of the whole.

It would be very difficult for said councils to stump the cash for an airport that no one seems to want to fly from, whilst at the same time closing what some may regard as essential local public services.

Each council will have a nominated board member to "look after" the councils interest, at least in theory and they be non executive at that ie they don't do any work in day to day running so the fee's will be very little, all will be in the accounts and fully declared no doubt, they may get the odd freebie, air shows or meetings at "airport owners" events.

In my view councils have no business owning airports, market forces decide who stays in business and DTV has dodged the bullet for longer than most, but will ultimately go the same way as Sheffield City i suspect, if it didn't exist no one would propose building it?

I watch with interest what happens to CWL under local Government ownership

[Northbound A1]

But and its a big but, why havent these elected council members stated that they work on the DTV Airport company board of directors? Look at Budd he's the deputy mayor of Middlesbrough and has been on the board since 2005 when numbers began to fall from 900,000 to now 150k

Surely these people who all appear to be labour councillors at the upper end of their particular council elite will have seen the small clause made by Peel when the contract for the sale of some of DTV was sold to Peel for £500,000.

Ten years later Peel announce the dilution notice that IF the councils dont give Peel more millions then the shares were theirs and not the publics. Peel state in their valuations that DTV land is now worth £30 million!

What happened to the councillors on the board, did they just turn around and say to the rest of their council members and say
"Its not worth investing in as Peel want to close the place anyway"?
As thats what it looks like to me.

Lets be hearing how much these named councillors did or didnt receive to sit on the board of DTV Airport.

Stockton council are the lead on the committee who deal with Peel, and Stockton council will benefit from millions in council tax if the land is ever built on. Think of it as another Ingelby Barwick which is also in their domain.

But to build on the place the councillors have to give the publics shares away to a company which already has form for closing airports such as Sheffield Airport, and who have run DTV into the ground over the last ten years while owning most of the shares.

The bigger picture here is WHO got what, and why did they agree to give Peel more of the publics shares without a fight over the hidden contract clause, as Peel never did put the promised £20m investment into DTV.
I wonder who will be shredding tonight?

[skyman771]

Northbound,
Whilst I have a great amount of empathy as to your concerns and can see to an extent as to where you are coming from, I get the feeling that you are perhaps too much into conspiracy theory, & the reality, as indeed with who actually walked on the moon & who shot "JFK" or for that matter "JR".... is that reality is actually pretty straight forward (perhaps that is excluding JR!).

I prefer to believe that those appointed to deal with Peel were perhaps simply inept and not up to the job, as indeed is the case in much of business life where "committee members appointments" arising out of employment in the public sector simply inherit positions either upon death/retirement of their line manager or by the size of their gob !
As for remuneration of directors in published accounts, aren't these a disclosure requirement in any event ?

[Lancelot37]

All of those hands in the pie and all we see is a declining airport! They should pay back the money that they've taken.

[SWBKCB]

Ah, the annual DTVA wild goose chase - is it that time of year already?

[Beafer]

The councillors on the board that is. :hmm:

[SWBKCB]

this almost counts as news amongst all the conspiracy theories. First I've heard of the proposed SERCO expansion

Poised for take off? Hopes rise for airport funding bid (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10521622.Poised_for_take_off__Hopes_rise_for_airport_funding _bid/)

[Hipennine]

I would imagine that the councillors are on the board as nominees of the shareholders (the councils), just as many company boards have shareholder nominees to protect the interests of the shareholders. It isn't a conspiracy. I won't comment on whether the interests have actually been protected.

Can anybody explain how the new South side bid lurches from "creating 8 jobs and protecting another 60" to a potential 1600 jobs ?

[SWBKCB]

Can anybody explain how the new South side bid lurches from "creating 8 jobs and protecting another 60" to a potential 1600 jobs ?

"creating 8 jobs and protecting another 60" - this relates purely to SERCO

Sandy Anderson, Tees Valley Unlimited chairman said: "A successful RGF award would help to secure and build upon the expertise at Serco's International Fire Training Centre at Durham Tees Valley Airport, creating 8 and safeguarding 60 existing jobs.

"potential 1600 jobs" - I would expected this is the maximum projected figure for all phases of the development

However, further up the article it also says:

The Southside development would allow Serco to expand its fire training business, which has operated at the airport since 1981, and build a new £7.4m complex to include training rigs, a virtual reality test centre and accommodation for trainees.

The initial plans would create 14 new jobs and help Serco increase its business with firms overseas.

[David Thompson]

This mornings Northern Echo contains a Jobs & Business supplement in which this story features heavily with the front page given over to it plus an editorial comment but most informative is a centre spread graphic layout of the new proposals which show Serco moving from their current sites to a new HQ adjacent to their training ground , a potential railway sidings close to the current rail stop , a potential future railway station close to the airport entrance - on the site of the recently demolished wartime sick quarters which was also offered as a potential hotel site last year - the route of the proposed new access road is shown as is the Southside Business Park .
Lots of potentials and proposals but all good news if funding is made available and certainly worth buying today's 'Echo for the graphic alone !

[davidjohnson6]

Are these all real jobs doing something commercially useful which would be sustainable in the private sector, standing on their own feet, or is this just some sort of fantasy make-work scheme that is utterly dependent on taxpayer handouts just to bribe some voters ?

[DTVAirport]

I think it's very positive for the airport but one thing that does concern me is the involvement of Dave Laws, the Chief Executive of NCL. It mentions in the paper but not on the website that he's part of the project via his position at the North East Chamber of Commerce, surely this is a bad thing as someone in his position at NCL should not want such a scheme to go ahead and with his high ranking involvement with the NECC he could surely be in a position to scupper not only the development but other areas of business at DTVA?

[SWBKCB]

Are these all real jobs doing something commercially useful which would be sustainable in the private sector, standing on their own feet, or is this just some sort of fantasy make-work scheme that is utterly dependent on taxpayer handouts just to bribe some voters ?

A bit of research would soon give the answer to this - the former rather than the latter.

I understood the main plans for the south side where to do with cargo

The original planning permission was for aviation-related development (or words to that effect) - don't think this condition has been varied? Previous talk has been about much of the development being for 'logistics', which could have been just tenuously aviation related (i.e. think TNT northside)

at the North East Chamber of Commerce, surely this is a bad thing as someone in his position at NCL should not want such a scheme to go ahead and with his high ranking involvement with the NECC he could surely be in a position to scupper not only the development but other areas of business at DTVA?

Don't think NECC would have much involvement other providing moral support, so with no substantive input so don't think this is a concern.

[SWBKCB]

Has there been any announcement from the various councillors about being on the board of DTV and if the received any money for their services?

Why not just ask? Try writing or e-mailing the councils/councillors involved and if that doesn't work submit a FOI request.

Does anyone know if the press received a copy of the Peel Dilution Notice in 2011 or was it all discussed behind closed door at the council chambers with the same councillor directors of DTV?

Councils must find £4.5m to keep shares in airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9412730.Councils_must_find___4_5m_to_keep_shares_in_airport/)

If this is what you are on about, it was covered extensively in the local media, with councillors/MP's involved (in fact you posted the same link on 10/12/2011, post #1474 !).

[Beafer]

SWB, yes it was covered in the press about the Peel Dilution notice in 2011 but did anyone know about the labour councillors who ALSO served on the Peel DTV board at the same time as being at the council who where asked for the £4.5m?

I didnt.

Have any of them got a caravan I wonder?

[SWBKCB]

This quote is taken from the article linked above (my underlining). Long time since I did economics, but isn't somebody who sits on the board usually a director? Can't see what is so surprising/sinister about councils who are shareholders of the airport company having seats on the board?

Despite owning fewer shares, Darlington Borough Council leader Bill Dixon insisted that the council’s influence over the airport will not be compromised.

He said: “It was in our agreement with Peel from the start that over time the local authorities’ share options would decrease as they put more capital in. I will continue to sit on the board and, in real terms, our influence will not be affected. Even combined – the local authorities were minority shareholders, so we couldn’t really veto anything done by Peel. I am concerned for the future of the airport, but not in relation to this. It doesn’t matter who owns what, so long as it is running.”

[SWBKCB]

I'm still not sure what is surprising about a former council owned company in which they still have a shareholding having councilors on the board?

Newcastle has three on their board and I'm pretty sure Manchester does also.

Like I've said before, if you're that bothered why not ask them directly?

[davidjohnson6]

Assuming Northbound is correct in his/her assertion about length of time on the board, there might be a case to ask why one particular councillor remains on the board for 8 years. 8 years of continued service would likely lead to the councillor in question becoming rather too chummy with the people from Peel and rather less likely to raise awkward questions at any airport board meetings on behalf of the council.

[LNIDA]

I think your looking for a smoking gun that isn't there........

THe one thing that having councillors on the board will have done is inject a rather large dose of reality into their thinking (councillors that is!), when they get to see the cost - v - revenue and unlike the local council they can't square the circle by just putting the council tax up i.e. charging customers more & more then they will understand that keeping the airport open is a major challenge, frankly I am amazed its still open.

[highwideandugly]

Beafer so true...I am amazed our intrepid news hacks havnt got wind of this and help us find a solution?

I am also amazed that that the CEO of Newcastle airport...may,might,does have a say in funding for our:ugh: airport!!!!

[onion]

You also forget that Durham had a share of both MME and NCL. I know at the time they tended to be very unsupportive of MME. Conflicts of interest have been happening at MME for decades!

[SWBKCB]

unlike the local council they can't square the circle by just putting the council tax up

Yeh right, that's how local authority funding works...

The question is HOW can someone on a private ltd company board decide they are going to ask for council money, and if they dont get the £4m then they will take shares off the councils, which they same councillors then decide to give the same company without a legal fight.

If you read the press articles linked below you'll see how this worked - all part of the original contract singed by the councils when they sold, which presumably would have been cleared by the legal departments of all the councils concerned.

I am also amazed that that the CEO of Newcastle airport...may,might,does have a say in funding for our airport!!!!

doesn't have a say in funding - NECC is purely a "...specialist business support organisation representing the interests of its members on a regional, national and international basis." i.e. talking shop/lunch club.

If you guys think there is a really a problem, do something about it rather than lurking on an anonymous forum. How about you:

1. Contact the relevant councils and ask them to explain themselves
2. Go to your councilor
3. Contact the press
Private Eye | Official Site - the UK's number one best-selling news and current affairs magazine, edited by Ian Hislop (http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pages.php?page=contact)
4. Complain to the Local Government Ombudsman
Local Government Ombudsman ? Home (http://www.lgo.org.uk/)

[SWBKCB]

Just because your mates down the pub don't know about it(!), doesn't mean it is anything new - it's been in the press over the years.

If you really think there is a problem, do something about it!

[DTVAirport]

The RGF bid has been turned down again.

[Beafer]

The bids who won.
£48m growth fund will get region moving (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10541010.__48m_growth_fund_will_get_region_moving/)

[No-More-Bullschit]

This shouldn't change anything, it certainly doesn't put the airports future in doubt like certain morons in the press are saying, the money requested by Peel is loose change to them they now need to do what they PROMISED and go ahead with this regardless.

[davidjohnson6]

If Peel decide that the costs of running a passenger airport are just too high - what are their options for redeveloping some (or all) of the land at DTV for alternate use ?

[DTVAirport]

They have next to no options, the deeds on the land state it can be only used for aviation and nothing else, plus many of the WWII-era buildings such as the hangars are listed and can't be demolished. They could close it, but couldn't really do much with it thereafter. I don't believe for one second they would close the airport - perhaps the terminal if nothing improves, but not the airport.

[Northbound A1]

MP's meet at DTV today for talks.

Press and public comments below.
One of the 2 Echo pages on DTV.
Talks to take place over future of airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10540917.Talks_to_take_place_over_future_of_airport/)

Gazette and public comments. How much are the DTV council directors paid?
Durham Tees Valley Airport misses out on Regional Growth Fund round four cash - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/durham-tees-valley-airport-misses-5065906)

[andrewmcharlton]

All this caustic sniping and finger wagging is a bit tedious.

Presumably the conspiracy theorists have seen such things as the list of shareholders, classes of shares, shareholders agreements and commercial contracts? Of course not.

Some folks seem to assume that everyone is paid, not always true; that everyone has equal votes, not always true. Get the facts straight before accusing them of being the man on the grassy knoll !

[highwideandugly]

Listened to a phone on on Radio Tees this morning(mike Parr) to put it into perspective...only one punter called in(a taxi driver) no one else...does that not tell us what the local populance(sic) thinks ?

Teesside could have an airport but due to a million reasons will always be a poor relation to Leeds and newcastle.

If Peel are serious they will put in their money...no delay..no excuses.. if they don't then a small light aviation field at its best will be the outcome.

Newcastle are the main focal point and locals will have no qualms about going 30 miles up the road for a superior(and cheaper) product.

PEEL over to you...no one else now..

[SWBKCB]

andrewmcharlton - spot on! But why let facts ruin a good yarn? Where's my tinfoil hat...

highwideandugly, agreed - I have no problem with Peel trying to get Govt money for their project, and as a commercial body they would be daft not to. I firmly believe that DTVA's future is to make the best use of what it's got, and to do so it needs to attract as a range of activities as possible - be interesting to see what Peel do next.

[Beafer]

Its turned into the usual political bun fight now.
Airport plans 'still worth fighting for' (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10543231.Airport_plans__still_worth_fighting_for_/)

I wonder how much the operating rates are for the airlines at NCL and DTV? Is it a large margin or is there another reason airlines are not coming to DTV?

Time for Peel to do something positive instead of asking for gov handouts and then blaming the government. They knew they were getting a bargain for £500,000.

[Northbound A1]

Thought Peel might have signed airline conman Victor up for a job in their spin department as they did have a few meetings with him.

He's on a one way ticket to Nigeria now.
Airline conman Victor Bassey deported back to Nigeria (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10545599.Airline_conman_Victor_Bassey_deported_back_to_Niger ia/)

[Lancelot37]

Headline in 6 months time "New Nigerian Airline"

[N707ZS]

I always though Beafer was Victor!

[Beafer]

Greetings from Nigeria :O I want to open a caravan site :ok:

[highwideandugly]

Peel very quiet...I would hope they have a plan B(or is it H) It really is time to show how much they are committed to the future of the airport by putting in the 5 or so million required to kick start development?

Failure to do so will again throw the future of the airport in doubt..wonder if there is any mileage in the councils taking back under their control...for a similar outlay of course!!:D

[Lancelot37]

Indeed highwideandugly (http://www.pprune.org/members/230376-highwideandugly). Peel is supposed to be worth £6 billion, so if it would benefit the site and make them more money why not invest the £5 million themselves?

[Heathrow Harry]

I think their problem is that they don't think they'll make more money investing in an airport as opposed to a large development site

[highwideandugly]

..well made..Cabby but I doubt it...

Private Eye where are you!!

[SWBKCB]

Appreciate I may have made this point before, but has anybody actually asked the relevant councils involved what the position is? :oh:

[SWBKCB]

I would have thought a fiscally prudent owner is just what DTVA needs! :ok:

I don't have a problem with Peel looking for Govt money where it is available, but the key is what they will do next. If the business case is that good they will push ahead (has been pointed out, they have the readies). If the business case is marginal, they'll need to consider when they stop chucking good money after bad.

On a different note, 767 arrived today for parting out - first widebody for Sycamore :D

[Beafer]

The airport had been doing just fine for 50 years until Peel came along :yuk:

[davidjohnson6]

Beafer, with the greatest respect, the economy on Teesside has been struggling for years...

[marcrh1986]

Despite not posting on this forum, I've followed this thread on and off for several years and have recently felt more and more inclined to add my two-penneth.

I definitely second the comment about the airport doing fine before Peel coming along and despite the fact that the Teesside area has been and is struggling economically, doesn't this increase the urgency and need for big companies in the area to drive change rather than contribute to stagnancy and decline?

Regardless of the RGF fund, Peel is a rich company and despite adding a new terminal frontage, rearranging the road network and introducing an unwanted name, what have been the products of Peel's investments?

And more importantly, what are they doing to turn the current situation around?

I think it can be easy to subscribe to the argument about MME being in the shadow of NCL and to a lesser extent, LBA. Let's just forget about them for the minute and instead believe that the people of Teesside deserve to use and benefit from the facility of the international airport that is on our doorstep.

What I'm most curious about is the accountability of Peel to the local people. Not just in terms of number of destinations from MME, but in terms of providing jobs, investment and contributing to the economy.

I'm just putting ideas out there but surely there are opportunities to attract cargo airlines such as DHL who appear to be running at capacity at EMA.

Or maybe Peel could compete for airlines such as Thomson or Thomas Cook for holiday flights to proven destinations like Palma, Alicante, Tenerife and Gran Canaria.

Is there a chance of having the Heathrow link reinstated with an airline like Virgin's Little Red.

If Peel:

Rename it Teesside Airport
Get rid of the PFF
Compete for new business

Wouldn't that prove that they are committed to the people of Teesside? And finally get things moving again?