MANCHESTER - 5

[spanishflea]

mentioning Sunair...Our Company used to have a base in Skive which is just north of Billund and we used to take the flight a few times a month as we had a contract and a warehouse over there supporting the telecom industry.
Flights I seem to remember at the time were around the 400 quid mark return!!!

They still are, £200 if you book well in advance.

It always seems to go out full too!

[MUFC_fan]

Would be very surprised to see EZY leave the MAN 'base.' As people have said, they have bases very close to each other as do LS, FR et al.

For example: LS have four bases within 100 miles of each other. Surely of LS can support NCL, BLK, MAN and LBA on routes across the continent then Britain's biggest airline can support two bases?!

Obviously, launching routes to AGP, PMI, ALC, FAO etc. may work on a daily basis without effecting the LPL network but routes such as AMS and BFS would definately be avoided due to competition and protecting their LPL base.

The point being made about EZY signing a contract with LPL saying that it can't open routes from MAN is absolutely ludicrous and most likely illegal. LPL - a small European airport having a stronghold over one of the most powerful airlines on the continent - really?! If EZY wanted to launch from MAN - they certainly would - whatever LPL say!

The difference between EZY and the likes of Ryanair is that they serve major airports and if they are to receive their 200+ order of busses then they have to put them somewhere, and MAN is a major airport!

[MUFC_fan]

Could anybody tell me which is the best lounge at MAN in T2?

I am planning to use EK next summer to the Far East and was just wondering whether you could give me an insight into the best lounge in the terminal?

Thanks alot.

P.S. If you are travelling with EK, is it still ok to use AF/DL lounge if this works out to be the best of the three?

[pwalhx]

My experience is there isn't a good lounge at T2 or T1 for that matter, until MA plc allow Emirates or the airlines to have their own its unlikely to improve. The lounges in T2 are small and cramped.

By the way if you want a better in flight experience I'd go QR rather than EK

[MUFC_fan]

Thanks for that.

It's just that QR take 34 hours outbound and 24 hours inbound due to the rubbish flight times whereas EK means we only have a couple of hours layover in DXB.

So...which is the best - Etihad, Qatar or Emirates?

[Fuel Boy]

MUFC Fan
I flew with EK in '06 I booked with them because of their "good" rep.

It was the biggest mistake I ever made. If you are flying coach then expect to be badly treated, service was very poor and cramped on both flights (MAN-DXB-SYD).The return leg included a live snail in Mrs Fuelboys' salad not what you'd expect:bored:

They only seem to care about business and 1st PAX only.

Looking back on it all and from friends have said then from MAN to the east I would use SQ.

Things can change in 2 years but I wouldn't hold out.

I would go back to DXB but hell would have to Freeze before I would use EK....

Sorry for the downer,Hope your trip is great and no problems, but hey you asked the question.

Fuelboy

[pwalhx]

Fuel boy I flew with them twice this year in biz and I can assure you it aint that great either.

Cant speak for Etihad haven't flown them yet but Qatar are head and shoulders better.

[MUFC_fan]

Thanks for that.

There are some differences such as the aircraft type. In '06 I'm guessing you travelled on either the 772 or 332 which are not the current standard of service that are available on the MAN-DXB sectors. Obviously, it seems you have had a bad experience but I have heard rave reviews off of other people which is obviously what you also heard before you travelled.

I looked at travelling with SQ but they were simply too expensive. I would certainly have chosen them had I felt the extra £500 per person was worth it but only the new A380 'Class beyond first' would force me to hand over the extra money!;)

I also looked at travelling with BA. Alot of people slate them especially the press, but never have I heard a bad word or have experienced a bad experience with the airline after leaving Heathrow. Having the opportunity to travel with 'The World's favourite airline' from the new T5 will certainly come soon enough but again not for the extra money!

Looks like I'll be sampling the EK product and will look to book soon. Thanks for all your help. Does anybody know which lounge the EK business passengers use?

Thanks.

[elgan]

Any idea what's going on with Zoom for next year??

I'm trying to book a holiday over in Canada for next June, and still there is no sign of seats for sale over the Summer.

Thomas Cook look reasonable, but shopping around is what I do!

[spannersatcx]

You could fly CX of course!:eek: Oh bugger they don't fly from MAN, unless you count the BA shuttle to LHR and then on from there.:ugh:

[jubilee]

MUFC

Check out Swiss and Air France as well, you can sometimes find a good deal with them.

Regards
Jub

[ManofMan]

I flew EY from MAN to AUH last year in Business and i can state that I have never had service like it (and i have done some miles in those big alluminium tubes) Have also done EK SQ and BA in Business and there is no comparison.

Just my opinion though.

Rob

[AUTOGLIDE]

Regarding EK, I did MAN-DXB-PER with them this year in economy and thought they were excellent. Only downside being the 25 plus mins spent on the coach at DXB transferring from the remote parking stand.
AFA good longhaul too, but the security issues at CDG can be a real pain.

[rkenyon]

EK use the GlobeGround lounge in T2.

Cheers,
Rick

[MUFC_fan]

Thanks for all your comments.

Looks like I will be booking with EK and just see how it goes - always look at other airlines next time!

If the SQ or BA rates were lower I would certainly travel with one of them but unfortunately they are charging another £300 per person!

EK and your 10-abreast seating here I come!:}

[MAN Guy]

Elgan

The general opinion about Zoom seems to be that they are sorting out the schedules for MAN operations next summer and that they will operate, unless anybody has heard otherwise recently??? It would certainly seem odd for them not to want to operate, especially given that it looks like we have said farewell to AC.

For fares to Canada it might be worth looking at TS as well as they are operating their own flights into MAN next summer as well as the TCX flights.

[elgan]

Thanks for clarifying that!

[chris4567]

so does MAN look like there will be another drop in pax figs????

[MAN Guy]

Lets put it this way, I'd be surprised to see much in the way of any growth in pax figures at the moment. Pickings for the rest of winter look pretty sparse too, hopefully next summer will bring us some better news.

Any early reports on pax figures for the Volareweb MXP service? I think it will be quite interesting to see if this one works out or not!

[Vuelo]

Any early reports on pax figures for the Volareweb MXP service? I think it will be quite interesting to see if this one works out or not!

1st service, 74 inbound and 35 outbound.

I think it will do very well as it is miles cheaper than BE, but the timings are iffy, the late arrival back at Malpensa, which is at least an hour from the coity, means it could be 1am before you are tucked up in your hotel in preparation fopr a days business in Milan.

If it goes well we will jopefullu see other Italian cities served by VE.

[MAN Guy]

Thanks for the info Vuelo, the inbound certainly seems quite healthy considering its a brand new service.

[Ian Brooks]

Pax figures won`t improve until the BAcon is factored out next spring
BHX is showing slow growth but they had such a terrible couple of years it couldn`t get any worse and of course they don`t have the London flights to take into consideration ( train competition ) which has kicked in the last couple of years after a few years when it was a terrible service

Ian

[MUFC_fan]

MAN Guy,

Really, the inbound service is the 'outbound service' for the airline who will probably attract more Italians than British who will probably stick with LS and BE. Obviously there will still be GB pax on the flights, just more Italians!

[Vuelo]

Really, the inbound service is the 'outbound service' for the airline who will probably attract more Italians than British who will probably stick with LS and BE. Obviously there will still be GB pax on the flights, just more Italians!

LS have pulled their BGY route!

[Wellington Bomber]

LS operated MAN-BGY last week, I saw it

[Going loco]

The route ended with effective from last weekend when the summer season came to and end. Big question marks over the chances of Barcelona, Valencia, Toulouse and Berlin returning next year.

[AircraftOperations]

A little off-topic but....


Noticed an Air Med Caravan cargo plane at MAN today, and with a little research, I've found that they've been at MAN quite a lot in the last few months and the aircraft is rarely on the ground more than an hour.

Anyone know what they are bringing in or taking out (commodity and payload) and who handles them at MAN for their quick turnarounds?

Thanks in advance.

[viscount702]

Are NE operating daily flights to BTS now.

The reason I ask is that although the NE website was a while back showing daily flights they now only show 4 a week on 1 3 5 7. OAG now only show 4 a week as well where they were showing daily. Also NE website would only let you book on 1 3 5 7 until a couple of days ago although now it does look as though you can book other days

Any further news on the purportedly imminent ( a few weeks back now) announcement of NW to DTW and the fact that CX to HKG was in the System from 8 February 2008 from T1. I know there are some extra freight flights already but that is not what was said to be on the cards.

Viscount

[Ringwayman]

I believe any NW MAN-DTW service will now by 2009 at the earliest; having said that the 3 new transatlantic routes they announced a week or so ago only involved 2 with NW's own metal flying.

Until CX's fixation with LHR and the BA shuttle is ended, we have no prospect for them (and if they do start, it *has* to be a non-stop service so that it "competes" favourably with thier own LHR services, and not taking a lot longer to fly).

Noticed the 1st AY advert for the "3 times daily" Helsinki in the Manchester Evening News tonight.

[ManofMan]

I believe that the Air Med flights bring in Perishable cargo, they are rarely on the ground for more than an hour as time is pennies, the longer they are on the floor, the less time they are in the air earning pennies.

They simply drop the cargo and off they swan again, sometimes back to Kidlington sometime elsewhere.

Hope that helps.

Mom

[Vuelo]

LS are also dropping PRG and AMS from January. Think we can safely say that LS are seriously downsizing at MAN....come on U2, get that ex-GB base up and running and give MAN a real boost. We can't have a situation where KL has no competition on AMS, at least!

Routes currently awaiting carriers at MAN for next summer are:

PGF
BOD
VLC
MAD
XRY
GIB
OPO
PSA
NAP
VCE
NCE
TLS
GVA
TXL
LDY
LRH
EGC
VRN
HER
PFO
VIE

I am sure EZY/WW/BE could at least take up a few!

[MUFC_fan]

Cannot understand LS. They said last winter that they are looking at seriously increasing their flights from MAN and increasing aircraft to 12/13 aircraft!

If they are to reduce services, we really do need U2 or FR. I can understand what people say about the major locos forcing other carriers off of routes and they are not money makers for the airport but MAN is going to fall behind if they don't keep up with the market.

When the airport get their terminals sorted and get the loco terminal up and running (when is this anyway?) they should be able to attract more airlines from across the world.

Obviously we want to see AirAsiaX, Oasis Hong Kong, Cathy Pacific, Air China and Northwest which all seem to be interested in MAN (over the next two years) but the airport also has to look at it's EU network. They may have more destinations that everyone but two airports on the planet but they certainly don't have an excellent scheduled network on the short-haul routes!

U2...MAN calling!

[FlyZB]

Not only will EZY be at MAN next summer but I believe they will be at MAN in full force! There are a lot of mixed views regarding this but I genuinely believe that they will take this opportunity with both hands. They have not hidden the fact that they've always wanted to come into Manchester. They wanted MAN over LPL back in the day and they were close to setting up a base here two years ago and it was only slot restrictions that stopped them. Now that they have prime slots and the opportunity to get their foot in the door, there's noway that they're going to turn it down.

Furthermore, I'll bet my bottom dollar that someone at easyland right now is looking at routes constantly being dropped by LS, WW et al and thinking we can be in here. It's their golden chance.

Forget the fact that LPL is down the road. EZY are not stupid. They're not going to overlap routes and force pax of their Liverpool flights. I doubt very much that we'll see them operate AGP, ALC, PMI etc. They're astute enough to realise where the potential is and along with some of the ex GB routes, I reckon we'll soon see the likes of MAD, SXF, NCE and many other 'missing' destinations back on our departure boards on a year round basis.

Watch this space...

[take-off]

Ls have said alot of things in the past, just look at blk, thers nowt happening at moment,theres more goin on in the local cenmetary!!! Ls have a bse there yet fr operate more flights:}:}, whats the saying about a bright orange future????

[MANFlyer]

Well after having a pop the other week it's only fair I balance it with my latest and much better experience.

Flew out of T3 on BD last Tuesday evening and I waltzed through. A couple of mins queue to check in (couldn't do on line or machine checkin as I was doing MAN-LHR-ICN-PUS with the latter two on OZ). After that no queue for security at all and in the BD lounge 4 minutes after I got my BP's.

Just got back on SQ328 this morning. A minute to go through immigration on arrival and straight through and into a near deserted T2 arrivals as I had no checked luggage to wait for. Only slight issue is the now earlier arrival of SQ328 with the clocks going back. We landed at 0520, Missus well chuffed...

T1 is an altogether awful experience in comparison and it's hardly surprising SQ have knocked back repeated attempts to get them to move there.

[EGCC4284]

Advice please

I am looking at going to Florida in the first 2 weeks of February.

Does anyone know who fly's this route from Manchester during this period.

Which high street travel agents should I visit. I was hoping that either TOM, FCA, MYT, TXC or MON would do this route in Feb????

Any ideas.

Rob

[eggc]

...and dont forget VS, and all the US carriers via their hubs.

Tell me what Mt. Everest ride is like at Animal Kingdon - it opened the week after we came home last time !! Never mind any excuse to go back ;)

[MAN Guy]

I know in previous posts I haven't been overly complementary about certain loco's at MAN but just perhaps U2 would give MAN the boost it needs right now.

It is hard to ignore the idea that if they add just a handful of the type of key cities listed by Vuelo (say MAD, NCE, VCE, SXF and GVA) and maybe throw in routes in need of some decent competition (say BCN and AMS) add these to the inherited GB stuff with strong branding and a ballsy attitude (somewhat lacking with our current loco's..... oooops there I go again!) then they have a nice workable network with which to start up from MAN

[Suzeman]

Heard in the pub last night (so must be true :} ) that LS will be coming back to MAN-AMS from the end of March 2008. Nothing on their web-site yet.

Anyone know any more?

Suzeman

[ManofMan]

Understand that LS have applied for no slots for AMS for the summer of 08, what we could do with to replace this is say Easyjet to base some aircraft.
I guess time will tell ;-)
Mom

[MAN Guy]

I think the chances of LS returning to the MAN-AMS run (along with the other cities axed in its latest cull) are slim to none I'm afraid. I've a feeling the "next phase" growth for LS will very much concentrate on LBA and maybe other bases.

Can't help but feel its been a disappointing relationship for both MAPLC and LS as you would have thought they could have really made MAN their own when they burst on the scene here. Seems to have been some strange route decisions (did we need another carrier on Prague?!) and missed opportunities (no attempt at Madrid when that became vacant also could they have made a go of Bergen and Riga when they became vacant???)

If, and I know its only an if at the minute, U2 come to MAN I really wouldn't be surprised to see LS pack their bags from MAN completely.

[gazza007]

My best friend was on yesterday afternoons ZB arrival from AGP which initiated a very late GA on 23R, didn't get a reason from the crew.
He is curious to know why?

Thanks

Gaz

[chiglet]

"Late vacating a/c........Ops vehicle on runway...Config warning....Cabin not secure...."
Choose any one from the above......
watp,iktch

[StoneyBridge Radar]

"Late vacating a/c........Ops vehicle on runway...Config warning....Cabin not secure...."
Choose any one from the above......
watp,iktch
Well, that really clears things up, doesn't it, Chig.
The guy asked for a definite answer, not a hypothesis. :ugh:

[Ringwayman]

Why does he need to know? Looking to launch a lawsuit and sell his story to a rag along the lines of "we were seconds from disaster"?

Still no news on Air Asia X - they have yet to decide between STN and MAN, and Air Blue's board will hopefully rubber stamp going to daily operations (meant to be 6 weekly from December); they are also looking to add "London".

[Mr A Tis]

...sometimes, you can't even ask a simple question on pprune, without being lambasted or ridiculed.

It wouldn't have been too difficult for the Monarch crew to say a few words, even if it was after landing.

Ive been SLF on a few go-arounds, the last one was in fact on a MON into BCN. On all occassions the flightdeck has managed to just give the pax a little info & everyone is happy.

Stop treating all pax like morons.

Thank you.

[gazza007]

Thank you Mr A Tis & Stoney for your common sense.
Yes being an ex-flyer & my friend being ex-crew we know the many reasons for a GA's, we just wanted to know if anybody knew the reason for this one as in his many Man landings & several GA's he had never had one over Ringway road!!!!

[opnot]

gazza007
he could not find the rwy during the flare and floated above it until a g/a was inevitable

[Vuelo]

According to Chinese press during the visit by the Manchester's Tourism/Commerce bureau, Virgin Atlantic plans to operate nonstop Shanghai - Manchester service in 2009.

[MAN Guy]

Interesting if it were to come off.... I think its safe to say that over the next few years we will see a passenger link to China.

However I would suggest that any service would initially come from a China based operator, with Air China being favourite, and probably to Beijing. I believe the approval has been or is currently being sought to operate this service in 2009.

Unless VS have quite a radical re-think about the pace and type of growth of their MAN operation, I'd be surprised to see them operate a pax route to China..... as always though I'd be more than happy to eat my hat if they did :)

[Ian Brooks]

There is a huge demand for China from the Northwest of England and now that the bilaterals specifically for Manchester ( Suzeman can you confirm that ) have been sorted and Air China has already been given the green light for Manchester from spring 2009 from Bejing by the Chinese authorities I would think it most likely that a British operated will respond on a Shanghai flight and of course we all know it won`t be L****n Airways

Ian

[mantug01]

Air Blue's board will hopefully rubber stamp going to daily operations (meant to be 6 weekly from December); they are also looking to add "London".
Air Blue have just started at "London" Stansted......

[Ian Brooks]

Which Air Blue though as there is the Finnish and the Pakistan one
and I think the Stansted is the Finnish one with RJ`s to Helsinki

Ian

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

Blue Air to Bucharest
Blue Air is coming to London Stansted, the first low-cost airline from Romania will start direct services to Bucharest starting on the 05 October 2007.

[MAN Guy]

Just to confirm Blue1 are serving London Stansted with RJ's from Helisinki as stated by Ian Brooks in last post.

Looking at Air Blue's site (the Pakistani operator), they are to increase MAN to daily from mid-December..... couldn't see any mention of a new route to London unless I wasn't looking hard enough!

[Ringwayman]

It's not on their website but was in a "Pakistan Times" online article.

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

Did it say which London Airport ?
-------------------------------
just found the answer to my own question see link
http://www.airblue.com/Corp/071101_PAKTimes.htm

[mantug01]

Blue Air..... Air Blue...... It gets very confusing these days...Can't people think of original names for airlines.

[MAN Guy]

Slot conference coming up.... are we all crossing our fingers for some exciting new routes for next summer?! :ok:

[Momentary Lapse]

Blue?

What colour is the sky?

Just a thought... :p:)

[This Charming Man]

Man Guy wrote
Quote
Slot conference coming up.... are we all crossing our fingers for some exciting new routes for next summer?!
unquote

The futures bright , the futures Orange ;)

[ManofMan]

The futures bright , the futures Orange
Thats "EASY" for you to say !!!

[Scottie Dog]

Oh my goodness, here we go again.

Do you remember all of the rumours and counter rumours that started 2 years ago (or was it longer).

Let's see what happens. IF easyJet were to come to Manchester then it would certainly help to boost figures at a time of quiet stagnation - at least it allows long overdue taxiway repairs etc to be done. In the meantime can I suggest that the speculation stop - until any announcement (again IF it were to happen) does come.

Will now retreat into my office work mode and prepare to be slagged for ruining the 'gossip mill'.

[This Charming Man]

No slagging off from me Scottie ,i know exactly what you mean :oh:
I shall also retreat and let things unfold :ok:

[MANFlyer]

Slot conference's rarely result in anything concrete for airports and airlines, they just help the rumour factory go into overtime. If an airline is looking seriously at starting a route, they don't need to attend a conference to decide whether to go ahead. Still, I suppose they allow a jolly in a nice city on expenses.

I accept I am probably in the minority here but I despair at the the thought of EZ or FR heading over to MAN on any sort of scale. The more the airport becomes an LCC hub the more you can wave goodbye to getting much more top class long haul airline activity here.

[kala87]

MAN has an amazing diversity of airlines, which makes it one of the most interesting UK airports. Do you really want to replace that with a sea of orange?

As other respondents have pointed out, if EZY built a hub at MAN, it would probably be goodbye to some of the legacy carriers that have used the airport for years, as well as a few of the more recent loco arrivals.

What MAN really needs are more long haul routes, so the airport can be a real alternative to LHR. Frankly I'm amazed that with the recent huge surge in flights to India from LHR, MAN still hasn't got a single direct flight to DEL or BOM.

[The Fulcrum]

Where do you think that many of the Etihad/Qatar/Emirates pax are ending their journeys from MAN?

[dh dragon]

the rumour of VS starting MAN-PVG in 2009 is interesting but this route would require a DAILY service to serve the predominantly Business traffic on this route and I cannot see this happening.As a Business Travel agent I can see the need for it however.Business seats are always at a premium and we have to dig around to find seats on airlines as varied as AY,QR,EK,KL,AF,LH and VS,BA,MU via LHR. The same applies to a lesser extent to BOM where we are using mainly KL,LH,AF(and 9W via LHR)
Certainly scope for direct services to both destinations.;)

[blahblahblah]

How many aircraft to Jet2 have at MAN now? I recall a few years grand plans for up to 8 a/c but what was the most they got to as I doubt the current programme justifies that number?:confused:

[ManofMan]

How many aircraft to Jet2 have at MAN now? I recall a few years grand plans for up to 8 a/c but what was the most they got to as I doubt the current programme justifies that number

Thats a good point, I wonder who they are looking to give Jet2's primetime slots to?? or for that matter who might have applied for them??

One thing for sure is that Jet2 are pulling services back like they are going out of fashion and seem to be concentrating on Leeds.

It would be nice to see a new airline from Manchester make a go of things, not just be pretenders like Air Berlin and Jet 2 have been, there is room for a Lo-Cost hub at Manchester and i beleive that if the airline are willing to base aircraft then the rates that Man offers become attractive.

My money is on a lo-cost airline basing numerous aircraft...Cant wait to see those Laker Skytrains back in Man :O

[Suzeman]

Slot conference's rarely result in anything concrete for airports and airlines, they just help the rumour factory go into overtime. If an airline is looking seriously at starting a route, they don't need to attend a conference to decide whether to go ahead. Still, I suppose they allow a jolly in a nice city on expenses.



Manflyer - Only true in that they fuel the rumour factory.:} Otherwise your statement above is rubbish.:ooh:

The Slot Conference is NOT a conference where everyone sits and listens to some notable spouting forth and then asks questions. It is a working conference where airlines can go to one place and sort out their slot problems at airports all over the world .

An airline seriously looking at a route and which has done a business case and wants to go ahead may not be able to get the slots it wants at either or both airports on the route. If you don't get matching slots for your block time at both ends it won't work. If you can't get the slots for a proper turnaround at either airport it won't work. If you get something acceptable at airport A by altering times then you will have to try and adjust your times at Airport B. So you have to go to the Conference to sort it out.

There, Airlines can talk it through with the coordinators in person to see what can be done.The solution could be to swap something with another airline: you can talk to the other airline fleet planners to see what might be achieved. They are all there on site.

Airports are present too and can talk about capacity constraints and meet airline planners. No doubt many airline route ideas have sprung from conversations at the Conference. And if there wasn't a system of slots at busy airports there would be chaos with more flights trying to operate at popular times than the infrastructure could cope with. So the outcome is crucial for both airports and airlines.

At the end of the day the objective is to get airlines as many workable slots as possible and use the capacity of the airports effectively.

Oh and by the way, one of the most effective ways of airports marketing themselves to airlines is the Routes CONFERENCE which allows airlines and airports to meet under one roof. Saves a lot of time and travelling. An airline which has several options for new routes can talk to a number of airports over a period of a couple of days. Similarly, airports can talk to a large number of airlines in a short period. If things get serious then follow up meetings will take place later either at the airline office or the airport.

So if these conferences "rarely result in anything concrete for airports and airlines", then what do they do?

Suzeman

[Vuelo]

I am not surprised that LS are retreating from MAN, they are just not a Europe-wide brand, and are totally unrecognised outside the North of England.
LPL's success as a low cost base is down to the near-globally recognised brands of the carriers which serve it.
ALL the routes abandoned by LS would work with either FR or U2 because EVERYONE in Europe, and not just Lancashire and Yorkshire, have heard of the carriers!
I am so looking forward to U2's arrival at MAN next summer, bring it on!

[FlyZB]

Vuelo, I couldn't agree more :ok:. To say that MAN does not need EZY beggars belief and I cannot understand such comments. This was exactly the kind of snobbish attitude from the management many years ago that's landed the airport in the mess that it's in now. MAN wanted nothing other than legacy carriers and now we find half of them have pulled out and we are lagging behind LPL to certain destinations. EZY's arrival may well see many legacy carriers disappear but don't forget it is these legacy carriers that have left us without a MAD service & left us without a LIS service until TOM took it on. There are many more examples. BA anyone?

EZY are ruthless but more importantly they have the guts to stick with routes rather than just pulling them at the first sign of trouble. If EZY do come to MAN, then I agree we'll see the likes of Jet2 and bmibaby reducing services. So what? They've both proved that they are non commital to Manchester and if EZY paves the way for their permanent departure from the airport, then so be it. It's about time MAN had a decent carrier that's willing to commit to the airport and develop routes rather than reduce services as soon as Nov 1st comes around. EZY is that carrier and I for one will have my fingers crossed that a sea of orange will decend on my local airport come Spring.

[MUFC_fan]

FlyZB

You have basically summed up most people's views in one post! Excellent writing!

LS, WW and AB will be leaving soon and there needs to be somebody to fill their boots! Bring on the orange buses!

I don't think that it will effect ZB, MON, TOM, XL etc. too much as I can't see EZY operating the hot spots yet. It will be more like the destinations not servced from LPL and also routes such as MAD where a service is desperately needed.

Anybody noticed that IB have been launching routes around Europe lately and MAN isn't even mentioned anywhere?! How come IB don't have regional services to the UK like LH, AF, KL etc.? I know that these carriers carry alot of transit PAXs but IB is the main airline to South America and also they serve all the regional airports around Spain and the islands.

Anyway - come on EZY!:}

[MAN Guy]

One things for sure...... Iberia or Air Nostrum won't come near MAN again if Easyjet did come on the scene and start a MAN-MAD route

[Mr A Tis]

Why on earth would EZY operate MAN-MAD when they already operate a successful MAD service 30 miles down the road from LPL?

[FlyZB]

I agree that if EZY do arrive in Manchester, they're going to have to be careful not to tread on the toes of their LPL routes. I think they're sensible and astute enough not to create too many replications and force pax off their Liverpool flights. However, MAD is an important capital city and although not as popular as more leisure orientated destinations such as BCN, I'm certain that there is enough demand from the Greater Manchester & Merseyside areas to sustain flights from both MAN & LPL.

[Homo Simpson]

Not everyone wants to see Easy or Ryanair take Manchester over for many reasons. I have no problem with them having a presence here but there are many people who dont want to fly with them. Not everyone wants to sit on a plane full of drunk Brits who clap when they land at an airport miles from where you want to be.
Now i realise thats not the case on every flight but they are some of the reasons people still want to fly with Legacy carriers.
Thats why you need the choice. Liverpool is a two horse airport thats about it and the North West as a whole will not benefit if you reduce airports to just a couple of airlines operating all the routes.
As for Liverpool losing pax i doubt that would happen as there are plenty to go around, however as Manchester was always the base they wanted then yes i can understand why Peel and some passengers may be wary of what may happen.

[ManofMan]

Now i realise thats not the case on every flight but they are some of the reasons people still want to fly with Legacy carriers

Thats all well and good but look at the situation with the "Legacy" carriers, they start from Manchester, operate for a limited time then vanish as quick as they start.

The airport has gotten itself into such a state when it comes to gaining new airlines that heads have actually rolled !!

I wonder how long it will be before FR start sniffing around for the Jet 2 slots that have been handed back ??

[MUFC_fan]

Why would FR operate from THREE North-West airports to DUB multi-daily? Why would Euromanx fly to MAN and LPL from IOM? Oh yeh...demand.

Just because they operate a route 30 miles down the road, what about the people that live East of Manchester? You can't just think about people in the MAN and LPL areas.

MAN and LPL could both easily support many routes by the same airline.

[MAN Guy]

I think its perfectly reasonable to expect a MAN-MAD route if Easyjet do arrive at MAN. Infact, I would hope it was pretty high up on the list.

There is demand for this route and has been for many years. If it had become such a loss maker then the problems must have been with BACON whether it be high costs, wrong fare structures or wrong aircraft usage. Funny how lots of BA routes from MAN became loss making when they went down the route of ERJ's and 146's. Maybe they should have stuck with Go and exported the brand and used that in the regions, but that's an argument for another day I guess.....

Also looking at airports in relative close proximity, there are overlaps on FR destinations from STN and LTN and on Easyjet destinations from GLA and EDI so I don't see why this would be a problem for Easyjet looking at somewhere like MAD from MAN.

:)

[TSR2]

Speaking from 30 years of experience of regular travel on this route, the BA double-daily service was aimed primarily at the high yield business travellers. Club Class always had a high load factor whilst economy was rarely full. Immediately following 9/11 there was a monumental downturn in business class travel which ultimately lead to a downsizing in aircraft and the subsequent demise of this route. What happened to the business travellers is somewhat a mystery but not many transferred to BA economy.
I personally doubt there is sufficient business to support a daily service from both MAN and LPL.

[pwalhx]

I think the answer is, should Easy set up a base in manchester, they will then sit down and make a business decision on which routes fit both airports and could sustain business from both and which could only be justified from one of the two and then decide what airport best suits the route.

Reading previous posts there may be a strong case to move Madrid from Liverpool to manchester, maybe not but Easy I am damn sure are already looking at it if they are to come to manchester,

[ManofMan]

If and i say If this comes off (thinks back 2 years !!) then MAD will be a daily flight.

Thats the plan anyway.

[chris4567]

air transat are flying next year to toronto non stop i searched in july


http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/web.nsf/Content/NewRoutes

[wiccan]

Three chances of EZY in MAN........slim, none and stuff all....:cool:
bb

[Homo Simpson]

And why will they not come here?
Remember one thing like it or not outside London, Manchester has the biggest economy so Liverpool are not safe if Easy want to come here.
Its not about my city is better than yours bollocks its business!

[wiccan]

Remember one thing like it or not outside London, Manchester has the biggest economy so Liverpool are not safe

Brummingham.......The so called Second city in the UK....???....but fly from NEMA......
Bums on seats is one thing.....Landing Fees and Airport charges are the
Real Thing.......
bb

[Curious Pax]

Which is probably why they start from Birmingham to Geneva and Grenoble next month. Small beer at this stage, but they have to start somewhere.....

[ManofMan]

Three chances of EZY in MAN........slim, none and stuff all....
bb

So are they just going to refund all the GB airlways seats that they have sold from EGCC next year ??

Makes sense.

[Mouser]

I was told it's a refund or shifted on to another carrier.

[Mr A Tis]

It would of course be just as "easy" to move the GB Cyprus & Tenerife services to Liverpool & consolidate there.
I guess we'll just have to wait & see, they have lots of options on what to do.

[This Charming Man]

Mickey Mouser = Yawn ! You need to check YOUR Liverpool thread . DWLPL failed miserably. :ugh:

[Mouser]

TCM,
Firstly it's Mr Mouser to you. A question was asked about refunding any seats sold next year, this question was raised at a meeting at Manchester between GB employees and Easy/GB management, I was merely passing this information on.

[Budfrey27]

LOL Mr Mouser.....smooth reply!!

regards

K :D

[MUFC_fan]

Just noticed that ZB BCN flight gone A321 everyday now (was A320 on some days).

Surely its only a matter of time before a second daily flight is introduced? Atleast on a FRI and SUN!

[paul01942]

Does anybody know why Manchester Airport has the widest range of different companies working within its airport area, more than any other airport in the world?
Just in the baggage handling area alone there are 6 companies with 2 more on the way? (Servisair/GlobeGround, Ringway Handling, Aviance, Swissport, Menzies and Flight Support with 2 more this winter)
Thats just the baggage side they have more Catering, Fuel, Check-in, Security, Cleaning, Engineering ets Manchester is by no means the biggest airport in fact quite small compared to most, yet it is so over populated its becoming shoulder to shoulder for employee's!
Anybody know the reasons why?:ugh:

[AJWTCX]

Ringway Handling are meant to be going bust, they have simply been pushed out by the bigger boys and i imagine that eventually there may be a few others that pull out.

On the EZY rumour, i have heard that EZY are currently in court trying to get out of the LPL contract as currently it wont let them fly out of both LPL and MAN?

If EZY do come to Manchester, i ahve also heard that they will be based at T3 and a copuple of other lwo budget carriers like RYR will also be mvoed over toT3 to make it the budget airline terminal. Dont know where this will put BA etc though.

[Homo Simpson]

There is no way Easy will be in a positon that requires them to go to court to set up at Manchester if they want to.
If they have a desire to come to Manchester they will and they wont worry too much about how Peel or spotters crying about losing some services will feel. Its business and airlines will go where they can make money.Manchester has had its fair share of comings and goings thats the nature of the flying game.

[Ian Brooks]

It all depends on how much money is at stake, if they move some over without reaching agreement with Peel Holdings I think they would have move over lock stock and barrel to avoid the fall out after upsetting Peel as it would be a very difficult relationship to say the least

Ian

[AJWTCX]

I heard that the reason for going to court was to do with the contract agreed with LPL meant they couldnt fly out of MAN. Obviously, they cant just cancel a contarct they have signed up to....hence the need for court.

[Homo Simpson]

I cant see how any airline would tie its hands in such a way. It would be idiotic at best.

[MUFC_fan]

Especially if the airline was planning on starting at MAN and LPL was desperate for the airline......

[Ringwayman]

The only thing easyJet may have done wrong is to commit to 20 years exclusivity of out LPL (think that's the length of time). Had they realised that FR would hop into LPL in such a big way and that BA would barely be seen at MAN other than getting people to LHR/LGW then I would have thought that their LPL contract would have been negotiated for 10 years maximum.

Perhaps LPL and easyJet may come up with a compromise to allow them to start MAN ops with a proviso that the LPL routes would only duplicated at MAN after a 3 year timeframe or once a given passenger threshold has been exceeded (either in absolute numbers or load factor), whichever comes later.

[Bagso]

If it suits EZY to come to Manchester in terms of economics, re fees, slots etc then come they will.The Liverpool - Manchester situation in this regard is the same as Gatwick - Heathrow.

In the South East if given the option , airlines will always want Heathrow but if push comes to shove they opt for Gatwick as next best thing, then if really desperate Stansted.

In the North West same applies, Liverpool has no catchment area to the North West (Irish Sea) and not much to the West (Wales)...to the East its main catchment point includes it's biggest rival...its pax use it not because of loyalty because it is cheap.

If the same fares were available at Manchester they would come there instead, its simple supply and demand.

Unless the rates for landing at Liverpool are ridiculously low or free it is inevitable that they will end up at MAN if they get the option.

That then begs the question if you have 2/3 based aircraft and w sectors from other airports why not then move the whole operation over to MAN.

If there is a suggestion of court action clearly Liverpool/Peel must be aware of this as well ? Incidentally how can Liverpool become all pompous and demand this 50 miles exclusion ? They peeeed on Easyland by welcoming Ryanair 2 years back....what goes round comes round !

P.S. .....anybody know what the fees for landing at Liverpool actually are ?

[Homo Simpson]

Totally agree!
There is no way an airline would get tied up with a 20 year contract at one airport with aviation subjected to so many world events. It would be commercial suicide.

[mickyman]

Reviewing the previous posts about the Easyjet
non-situation - it seems that people are desperate
to fill Manchester tarmac at the expense maybe
of Liverpools.I am sure if their is a commercial
advantage for Easyjet to establish at MAN they
will do............being a supporter of both airports
and being neither scouse or mancs I continue to chill!!

MM

[chiglet]

In the North West same applies, Liverpool has no catchment area to the North West (Irish Sea) and not much to the West (Wales)...
I'm glad that you don't navigate Rally cars for a living, bagso
Repeat after me....Wales is SOUTH of the Wirral, which is NOT to the West of Liverpool.....:E
watp,iktch

[MAN Guy]

Noticed a rumour on another site that suggests Mahan Air are about to restart their MAN flights. Is the ban about to be lifted?

First I've heard of this, anybody heard anymore information on this?

[kick the tires]

Homo, you do talk some absolute dribble.
Does your commerial suicide include the £150,000,000 profit the company is about to announce for 2006/7?

[Homo Simpson]

Dribble is it?
I was making a very valid point that Easy would not be so idiotic as to tie themselves into a longterm contract with Liverpool or any other airport that prevents them opening another base within a reasonable proximity.
That is commercial suicide.
Whether Easy have a base at Liverpool only or here as well makes no real odds to me i dont fly with them but i think its fair to say that a Manchester operation would add even more to the £150 million you talk of.

[Vuelo]

Has the new T3 security area been opened yet. I mean the bit just past the SN/VG ticket desk along where the food outlets were.

[Flightrider]

If Liverpool and easyJet have entered into such a contract, I would imagine both parties would be fervently hoping that it will not get anywhere near a court of law. I suspect that certainly Liverpool would be held as having acted in contravention of competition law, in that their actions could have jeopardised the choice of air routes available to consumers in the north-west region.

There would be a number of issues to investigate, not least the interaction between MAN and LPL airports to serve catchment areas which are distinct and which overlap. However, the court case would be hilarious. From a position of little knowledge of this, any action by Liverpool to try to enforce the terms of such an agreement (if it exists) would be laughed out of court as having been illegal in the first instance.

Should be a good laugh if it gets that far though. One wonders whether easyJet's not-insignificant slot application for Manchester in Summer 2008 is a means of testing Liverpool's resilience and willingness to enforce whatever agreement might be in place.

[Code 100]

Sorry, been working all weekend - has EZY applied for some slots then. Polite answers on a postcard, please!

[STATSMAN]

As of yesterday morning (12/11/2007) no.

[Bagso]

I'm glad that you don't navigate Rally cars for a living, bagso
Repeat after me....Wales is SOUTH of the Wirral, which is NOT to the West of Liverpool.....
watp,iktch

oh chiglet do please put your reading glasses on and keep up.

I said North Wales thats right NORTH WALES........!!!!

Clearly Wales as a whole is not within Liverpools catchment.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
....(By the way when you check a map you have to incorporate line of latitude , its basic geography really !

Llandudno is Lat: 53N
Bangor is Lat 53N

and stunningly....yes Liverpool is also Lat: 53N

.. so if you draw a horizontal line and the move your finger along to the West..... guess what Colwyn Bay, Llandudno, Bangor etc !

....are they in North Wales..? hmmmm.... c'mon c'mon I know its is a strain...thinking cap on !

Interestingly The Wirral which you made reference to is actually 3W, which if you also draw a line due South barely takes in any of Wales on a line of longtitude.

Anyway I digress can we get back to the main topic now please...ta ?

[1station]

Opening back end of this week, early next I believe. Just snagging at the moment. Should be interesting.

[master slug]

Could somebody tell me were this rumour has come from that Ringway Handling are going bust.
Seems strange to me when the company is owned by Manchester Airport itself. So how have we arrived to the position that its going under.......

[chiglet]

Bagso
oh chiglet do please put your reading glasses on and keep up.
I said North Wales thats right NORTH WALES........!!!!

In the North West same applies, Liverpool has no catchment area to the North West (Irish Sea) and not much to the West (Wales)...to the East its main catchment point includes it's biggest rival...its pax use it not because of loyalty because it is cheap

No, you said Wales.....
But, apart from the Lattitude which is rather irrelevent..Talacre and Prestatyn are not part of a Major Catchment area
To get to Liverpool from Wales, you have got the dreaded Sealand Traffic Lights.
You now have a 3 choices
1, Go Left, then fight your way along the M53, Mersey Tunnel, and then to the Airport.
2, Leave the M56 at the Weaver Bridge, and enjoy the Runcorn Road Works
3, Carry on the M56 to Manchester

watp,iktch

[spanishflea]

Could somebody tell me were this rumour has come from that Ringway Handling are going bust.
Seems strange to me when the company is owned by Manchester Airport itself. So how have we arrived to the position that its going under.......

Well it is the worst kept secret around the airport...

All conjecture of course, but they main points seem to be that it has become unprofitable/unproductive and the Airport is looking to get rid of it.

[paul01942]

Being an employee of Ringway let me set the record straight Ringway is not going bust, it does have problems granted but closure of the business has NOT been discussed, we have to recoup lost money, in terms of getting better profit from the workforce and streamlining the business so we can compete at Manchester, we have 5 major contracts that are commited to RHSL for a further three years, the problem all companies are having at Manchester is the airport itself is allowing company after company to start up operations hence completely flooding and choking the life out the industry.:ugh:

[EC-ILS]

I had some work to do at MAN yesterday and had the oppourtunity to walk around the 3 terminals and with the exception of of T2 the place is a complete dump!

The toilets alone are unnaceptable and are like somthing I would expect to find in an airport serving a 3rd world city.

Without doubt overall the worst airport in terms of facilities.

[jongeman]

What ridiculous and ignorant comments EC-ILS. MAN's terminal 1 may well be old, T3 overcrowded, and both get a hammering every day by thousands of people. No different to Dublin or any other large airport within the British Isles.
Without doubt overall the worst airport in terms of facilities
Kind of speaks for itself. What were you expecting? An Olympic sized swimming pool?:ugh:

[chiglet]

What were you expecting? An Olympic sized swimming pool?
As we "only" got the Commomwealth Games, woud he settle for that size?
watp,iktch

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Jongeman
Your defence of MAN is admirable. :D
Had EC-ILS visited on a wet Wednesday when the terminal is full of buckets collecting rain water, I suppose you'd have told him it was an expensive water feature? :ugh:

[Ian Brooks]

That sounds like where I work!! I kid you not

Ian

[spanishflea]

The toilets alone are unnaceptable and are like somthing I would expect to find in an airport serving a 3rd world city.

That insults the infrastructure of many third world country's airports.

I would much rather pass through the airports of Nairobi or Lima than Manchester any day!

[FlyZB]

I can offer no defence of the toilets and agree that they are bordering on 3rd world facilities. Extremely embarrassing and the forthcoming refit of all toilets facilities at MAN is not a moment too soon.

However, I will ask that you consider this. The state of an airport is not only determined by how well it is looked after but also by how it is treated by the passengers. And the way I've seen some people treat the facilities when travelling through the airport is absolutely disgraceful. I won't mention specifics but certain passengers from certain airlines are worse than others. They have no regard for other people and treat the place like a dumping ground. So you could spend hours and hours of each day cleaning and maintaining the toilets but they would still become a disgusting mess.

[Scottie Dog]

I will leave Ringwayman to make his usual informative report of the passenger figure breakdown, however the following are the provisional airport throughput figures...

Movements - 18519 (-2.8). Cumulative totals - 207615 (-2.6)
Terminal Passengers - 1995608 (-0.6). Cumulative total - 21887313 (-0.7)

Interestingly as a comparative the Liverpool figures are:

Movements - 3766 (-5.5). Cumulative -45826 (-6.5)
Terminal Passengers - 458946 (-0.4). Cumulative (5426314 (+10.5)

What has suddenly happened at Liverpool to effect their figures??

[Bagchucker]

whilst i agree with some of what Paul writes, closure ofRingway was mentioned, and even if we do move forward the loss of any one of the five contracts would also result in closure. What the company does need is the full support of MAG not just when it suits! Does "getting more from the workforce" involve the workforce being more flexible or reducing terms and conditions to make the company more SALEABLE. The company was almost disposed of six weeks ago, that fell through. Thats the position Ringway is in. Good luck to all at Ringway.:ugh:

[MAN Guy]

Has this freight service bitten the dust? A Ringway site reports this as being "non op" for the last 10 days.

Always thought they might be better off trying a pax service again ;)

[MAN777]

Saw it a few days ago, not sure what day.

[Scottie Dog]

Currently just weekly. Supposedly increasing to 4 per week effective 1st December.

[MAN Guy]

Thanks for the Aeroflot information folks.

Any whispers going around on who might have applied for what slots for next summer yet???

[Vuelo]

U2 have applied, but not sure on which routes.

[Sir George Cayley]

I passed thru T3 a coupla days ago during the evening peak.

I was very unhappy with the experience and smiled to myself that getting on a knackered old BA 734 was actually, in comparison, a relief.

In comparison with BAA Security, MAN checks were scant. The staff looked unfocussed and bored.

The lounge was overcrowded and clearly too small for the numbers of pax at peak. Wonder what the Fire Cert says?

A number of shops were closed and all the other retail outlets had long queues. A Boots outlet is being built which appears to remove the last bit of daylight.

The Male toilets smelt so bad I retched whilst using them.

The FlyBe announcements were made by a young woman whose voice sounded like a car crash.

The gate area was freezing cold in comparison to the stuffy hot lounge. Wonder why I have nasal problems today?

All the vetical surfaces in the building were either dirty, chipped or otherwise discoloured. The advertising lightboxes were so bright they hurt my eyes.

The airbridges were dirty with litter strewn around and evidence that the damp worn carpet had not been vacuumed for quite some time.

None of the staff with whom I spoke and offered a friendly "Good Evening" responded.

Manchester Airport occupies a special place in my heart. But it is the Airport of the last century not the current one. It used to win awards hands down and be staffed by people of warmth, committment and enthusiasm.

Those old enough will remember the hairdressers inside the Gents in T1.:ok:

Loo of the year award? Yup I think the whole place could win it now.:{

Sir George Cayley

[SWBKCB]

Well, things have obviously deteriorated a LOT since the last time I through T3, where I found security at least the equal of any other UK airport I've passed through - and are you talking about the BA lounge? Easily the equal of T1 at LHR in my experience, which along with the rest of T1 shows that BA can't wait to get to T5...

[ADC2604]

Not a great experience then Sir George??

[MAN Guy]

Mahan Air are scheduled to restart their Tehran service tonight. Looks like they've finally sorted their problems out.

:confused: Looks like I spoke too soon, tonights flight now showing as cancelled despite showing as on time earlier.

[Scottie Dog]

In the absense of any data from Ringwayman, I thought the following might be of interest. I have tried to exclude routes that have been stopped or just started.
Winners (Longhaul scheduled) -
Lahore - +72% 3092 pax
Abu Dhabi - +54% 13071 pax
Islamabad - +44% 13659 pax
Dubai - +24% 40613 pax
Atlanta - +20% 12541 pax
Newark - +15% 19149 pax
Philadelphia - +13% 13313 pax
Doha - +7% 13475 pax
Chicago - +1% 23398
Losers (Longhaul scheduled)
Bridgetown - -4% 8483 pax
Las Vegas - -4% 11142 pax
JFK - -6% 18688 pax
Singapore - -20% 12570 pax
Karachi - -29% 1778 pax
Damascus - -48% 446 pax

[MAN Guy]

Hopefully Singapore will see some growth now its back at daily. There was a nice big advert in the MEN last week shouting that they are up to daily (....again!)

Damascus looks like it could be on shaky ground, I think its actually down to 1x weekly just now with very odd timings. If I remember rightly it was 3x weekly at its peak, or certainly 2x weekly. Somebody posted a while ago about it now not showing on OAG for next summer. Is this one is on borrowed time or are they just mucking around with the schedules as RB seem to like to do?

[MUFC_fan]

How come there are 4 flights to BHX this evening from MAN? I know they are positioning flights but FOUR?! 2 are TOM, 1 MYT and 1 WW.

Also, looking at the arrivals board I never realised how many TOM aircraft operated out of MAN close season!

Who is the biggest carrier at MAN in terms of PAX numbers? TOM or BE?

[Ringwayman]

13 diverted aircraft this evening due to about 2 cm of snow at BHX and EMA, with another one being a medical diversion:

2 bmibaby, 2 MyThomasTravelCook,1 CityJet, 2 Thomsonfly, 4 Flybe, 1 Lufthansa, 1 Ryanair and 1 easyJet (latter being the medical div)

[Ringwayman]

Sorry, Scottie Dog, million and one things to do (any postings elsewhere just happened to be convenient timings of me logging on and seeing what could have an "instant" response; just got the CAA data now. Need to analyse it properly, Have noticed the usual drift from AMS to CDG though.

[manspot]

All handling agents seem to be coping well. Most flights re-fuelling and going back to BHX after runway is cleared.

Was the snow forecast or was it a case of bad prep by BHX?

[Ian Brooks]

14 Diversions from BHX, EMA and LBA due snow plus the last one a medical diversion so fun and games, it is certainly very busy this evening,also Luton was closed for quite a while with the snow.
BHX and EMA both had problems BHX decided to put de icer down then found that had to sweep but had not called the sweepers out and then had to re de-ice and EMA their sweeper broke down apparently


Ian

[BombardierCR7]

Wasn't aware of any LBA diversions?

[Ian Brooks]

Sorry I was told a Jet2 but cannot confirm

Ian

[gazza007]

I'm on my annual Nov WW trip to AGP tomorrow flight, 3.5 hours earlier than it used to be at 06:15, how busy will it be. Being local, will 05:15 at MAN be OK.

Cheers

[agent x]

bmibaby check-in at MAN T3 (desks 30-36) is always heaving first thing in the morning..huge ckin queue because there are so many ww departures within minutes of each other first thing. Then huge queue through security cos of the volume of passengers. The earlier you get to check in the better.

[The Fulcrum]

Sir George

the staff with "warmth committment and enthusiasm" have all been given the "Red Card" over the past 18 months. Do not mention the P word !!

[Mr A Tis]

Departed T2 this morning for warmer climes. OMG what a disgrace!!!
Retail units shoved in, blocking not only light but a right of passage thro' the place. Now the toilets- I trailed every single block from one end of airside to the other. EVERY toilet unit had ladies queuing into the "concourse" & EVERY Gents had 6-8 chaps waiting for cubicles. They stunk to high heaven.
What whoefully inadequate facilities, this in their "premier" long haul terminal. I am ashamed to call this my home airport. Absolutely 100% shoddy.

[Bagchucker]

Further to my previous post: The "caring employer" that is MAG have today told all employees of Ringway Handling that the company in it's present guise will cease to be on 31 March 07. On 01 April 07( quite apt) it will rise from the ashes on the proviso that nearly all staff (apron and buildings-not senior management!) take a wage cut of around a thousand pounds a year, and lose between 4 and 6 days holiday a year. There other little morale boosters in there too, so given this or the option of redundancy all staff are between a rock and a very hard place. I personally feel very let down and can't believe that a company would do this to a workforce who on the whole are both hard working and dedicated. Do they expect people to be thankful for a drop in their standard of living(which Mr Muirhead said should not happen(Merry Christmas Geoff)) while senior mangement give up nothing and carry on taking their large pay packets.
I hope the union at Ringway can fight this and win, for the sake of all employees everywhere I fear this is start of a slide down a very nasty slope. Perhaps we should all file past Mr Muirhead and Mr Cornish doffing our caps and thanking them, they may get a visit from the Ghosts of Christmas past, present and future!!
Finally, ( yes I've finished my rant now) I hope all the workforce can maintain their principles and dignity and back our union in the fight against something that is morally wrong and unjust and must stopped.
If you're handled by Ringway at Manchester I hope you'll understand if the staff are not their usual selves and the service not quite as good as usual but we're a bit "cheesed off".
Good luck lads.:=

[easy manager]

Sorry to upset all you hopefull guys but Easyjet is to sell all the Manchester slots from the take over:sad:

[rampman]

sorry to hear about rhs and the way the managment has treated you they have treated you like crap for years you are all a good buch off workers who work very very hard for little if no thanks at all i hope the union stick up for you and do the right thing

good luck all

rampman:ok:

[FlyZB]

Mr A Tis, when was your previous visit through T2? To my knowledge, there have been no major changes in the 12 months I have been working there. Building work is to start soon but at the moment there should be nothing blocking any natural light. Well, nothing recent anyway. Regarding the retail units getting in the way, the only one I can think you might mean is the Alpha duty free shop jutting out blocking Gate 210 and that's been like that for years. T2 has the unfortunate disadvantage of being very cramped around the main retail area and having too much unused space on the piers. This should be sorted after the redevelopment when many of the shops will be able to spread out into the current landside concourse, which of course becomes airside.

Regarding easyjet, I think selling the slots would be a huge mistake. They have the opportunity to start up operations at MAN in a big way and they would be foolish not to take it. I keep hearing conflicting rumours about this. Some people are saying that they are trying to get out of an exclusive contract with LPL so they can come into MAN, others are saying they're gona sell all their slots. Personally, I'm going to wait and see but I'll be very shocked if they don't come into MAN and I think it would be a bad move on their part.

[MAN Guy]

Surprising if they do pass up on the chance to finally get into MAN as thought it was MAN what they wanted all along when they first came to the region all those years back?

They came sniffing round a couple of years back and allegedly backed off because of naff slots etc..... seems very strange for them to run and hide now when its all more or less on a plate.

[FlyZB]

easy manager, clearly you know more than you're letting on. I'm not doubting you but would you like to elaborate and explain the reasons why you're saying what you are.

[Ian Brooks]

Thought it was only Heathrow where slots were bought and sold

Ian

[EC-ILS]

My comments certainly are not idiotic!

Im was a foreign visitor using the facility that is Manchester airport and my opinion of the place is that it is a complete dump.

Ive used most airports in the UK and none are quite that bad!

I to came across the broken escalators aswell, I had to help an elderly man and woman haul a suitcase up the escalator from arrivals to departures in T2!

DUB certainly has its problems which are quickly being sorted but this isnt a DUB vs MAN contest its a passengers opinion of the airport and no matter how much locals or staff try to defend the airport it doesnt make it a nice airport.

[FlyZB]

Had to help an elderley man and woman haul their bags up the escalator in T2? They shouldn't have been using the escalator even if it was working. There's a useful invention called lifts! Unfortunately passengers don't like to use them very often choosing instead to attempt to place 25kg bags on the escalator, ignoring all the signs telling them not to do so and subsequently falling down it, cutting their legs open and then trying to claim compensation!

Sorry EC-ILS not having a go at you, it just winds me up something rotten when I have to waste my valuable time dealing with an accident that could have easily been prevented if people used their common sense!

[dwlpl]

Easymanager is nothing to do with me.

Presume a mod can zap the IP address of me and easymanager that will confirm it.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This thread is about MANCHESTER. That is the topic. Please stay on it or face deletion.

[ManofMan]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to upset all you hopefull guys but Easyjet is to sell all the Manchester slots from the take over

Of course they are !!! do they plan to do the same with the 10 + other slots that they have applied for at the recent slot confrence.

No less than 4 based with W pattern is the figure i am hearing being banded round.

But all heresay till it happens ****thinks back two years****

[Mr A Tis]

FlyZB, I'm a T1 person normally. The fact T2 has been like that for a while, is no reason to say that it is OK. It isn't.
Remove some of those retails outlets & build some decent toilet facilities. I have to say it IS third world what is provided. Blocking egress with shops is bordering on criminal.
Re escalators-often people have to use them with bags, because the lifts are inadequate -even when they are working ! The railway station ones are always u/s & one of the T2 multi storey lifts has been u/s for over 4 months.
The lifts in T1 landside terminal block -call lights dont work & the floor indicator lights dont work in any of them-so you dont know where you have stopped-been like that for over 12 months.
Get real & stop trying to defend the indefensible, its third world.
Try a visit to Dusseldorf,Munich or Hamburg.

[5 MILES OUT 24R]

Why on earth would anyone buy slots at MAN??? Slots are quite easy to come by, even at peak times. Take it from someone who deals with slots EVERY DAY!

Easy may hand back the slots they inherited from GB but there is no way anyone would want to buy them as there is simply no need.

[Momentary Lapse]

You know it's not my habit defending Mr Muirhead or the other controllers, fat or otherwise, but I see from MAG's accounts, recently published on the website, that the directors took less pay last year than the year before. That's not to defend the RHSL decision, about which I know little. I offer my sympathies to the workers though, and I hope it comes right for you.

On another subject, has anyone asked EasyJet's customers whether they'd like to fly from MAN rather than LPL in future? If they wanted to fly from MAN, they already would be doing so. I suspect they support EZY at LPL because the two together (airline and airport) combine to make a better product.

[SkinHeadFlyer]

As one of those (reluctant) easyJet passengers who flies LPL-SXF often, I’d sooner fly from MAN. LPL has poor public transport & motorway links. I live in North Wales and it’s still easier to get to MAN than LPL.

The only reason I use LPL and easyJet is that there is no longer a direct MAN-Berlin service, not because the product is good. The state of the airport toilets doesn’t even come into it. For the record, "Loo of the year" goes to AMS!

easyJet have a monopoly to Berlin from the north and that’s started to be reflected in the prices they charge. The easyJet fares out of LTN and LGW are much lower (OK, they’re slightly nearer as the crow flies) but the lower fares are mainly down to competition.

So my perfect product would be MAN-Berlin with AirBerlin into TXL, but I'm guess I'm stuck with the "orange one" for some time.

There you go - you asked, I replied. Just don't shout me down for my reply folks!

[MAN Guy]

SkinHeadFlyer you might just get your wish of AB back on MAN-TXL if current rumours come to fruition. Rumours suggest they are re-assessing the UK market and eying potential point-to-point Germany-UK routes.

Sticking with Germany, a big article in MEN suggests Lufthansa are very pleased with their MAN operation and looking at possible expansion by using slots vacated by the worlds favorite.

[FlyZB]

Mr A Tis, I was simply curious to exactly what you were talking about. My duties haven't taken me airside in T2 for several months and was just wondering if you were referring to any newly constucted outlets that I wasn't aware of. Hence the reason for asking you when the last time you travelled through T2. Regarding the retail units and toilets, I agree with much of what you are saying and at no point did I offer an excuse for either of those problems. Anyway, you answered my query. Thank you.

Momentary Lapse, I think that many a passenger would choose MAN over LPL if EZY served Manchester. The convenience factor would come into play and the only reason a lot of people travel to LPL instead of MAN at the minute is because EZY offer routes currently not available from MAN and are often cheaper than the likes of WW, LS & ZB on competing routes.

[TSR2]

I first used Manchester Airport in the early 60's and on a regular basis over the next 40 years for business and leisure, probably averaging twice a week for at least 25 years. For the past couple of years my travels from the airport have been strictly related to leisure and in recent months have passed through both T1 and T2 on quite a few occasions at peak times.

Whilst I would fully agree that the general condition of both terminals is nowhere near the standard of say 10 years ago, I cannot honestly say that it was an unpleasant experience in either terminal, in fact, far from it. They are what they are, just terminals from which to start a journey, not a 5 star hotel. If an escalator is not working, inconvenient may be, just use a lift. If there is a queue 10 deep waiting for pee, read a book, crack a few jokes or whistle a tune whilst waiting. It's not the end of the world. Perhaps if I toured the entire airport with a notepad and carefully recorded any defects or layouts not to my satisfaction, I probably could find cause for complaint. but believe me life is too short for that. There are far more important issues in the world.
Of course there are many airports far better than Manchester in my opinion but there are a hell of a lot more that are far worse, again, in my opinion.

Chill out chaps, keep life in perspective or you may just join the 'grumpy old men (or women)' before your time.

[Ian Brooks]

Terminal 1 CDG to name 1 terminal 2 CDG( or at least half of it) to name another, terminal CDG to name another all in my opinion not as nice as Manchester

Ian

[Fuel Boy]

I have recently travelled to SOU through T3 with Mrs Fuelboy, who is a wheelchair user, I can't believe what I saw.

Crammed seating and a section of the lounge sectioned off for yet MORE retail......

Do we really want/need the new Boots outlet or would seating/layout be a better use of the space and light. I can't understand the logic at all.

With all the PAX waiting in the morning we found it utter madness getting around with all the people herded in like sheep:mad:

I truly believe that any new building will probably be sponsored by Tesco just to cover all the shopping requirements and that you will only access the lounges by passing through the tills which will also double as check-in:ugh:
Rant over .................................for now
Fuelboy

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

OK folks - back to flights news!

Prepare to say your farewells to 'British Jet' (ie. the FlyHello MD90 operated on behalf of Maltabargains). With the imminent end of the current lease on the MD90, Maltabargains has concluded an agreement to appoint Air Malta as its new transport provider. Air Malta expects to significantly increase its carryings to the UK as a result of this deal and is set to announce additional frequencies to Britain in afew weeks time. The effect on services to MAN in particular are not yet known; however, as MAN enjoys at least daily Air Malta service anyway in peak season we may see only adjustments to aircraft type (more A320, fewer A319 for example). No doubt all will be revealed over the next few weeks. Sorry to see the last of our only regular MD90 though.

[take-off]

What a great idea , a Tesco terminal, just think if you had more than one infront at check-in , they'd have to open another desk, all the bogofs in the duty free, and clubcard points, think of all the points you would get filling a 73 up!!
Plus being tesco, they would no doubt have the runways in full use 24hours apart from on a sunday that would a be 10-4,maybe a 11-5 in summer!!!haha:}:}

[Take up the Hold]

Plus being tesco, they would no doubt have the runways in full use 24hours apart from on a sunday !!!haha

That would be in England only as some Tesco stores in Scotland open H24 seven days a week.

TUTH

[Ian Brooks]

Ah but if it is like our it`s the cars that have to go into the hold lol

Ian

[lexxity]

Do we really want/need the new Boots outlet or would seating/layout be a better use of the space and light. I can't understand the logic at all.

Yes T3 does need a Boots airside for one very good reason. People can now repurchase the liquids such as shampoo, etc that were confiscated at security. Also it means the staff can afford to eat and drink without having to spend 20 mins of their breaks going back landside and clearing security, again. Boots is long over due. That being said, we were told it was going where the customer service desk is and the customer service desk was moving next to the lift for the BA lounge.

[rkenyon]

For anyone who doesn't know, there are some relatively nice loos upstairs in T2 (in the airline lounge area). There are supposed to be shared by the lounges, but they are open to anyone. There's never been a queue there when I've been there, and they don't smell :)

[chris4567]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/business/s/1024945_lufthansa_eyes_ba_slots

GERMANY'S national carrier Lufthansa is targeting Manchester and other regional airports for major growth after British Airways' near withdrawal.

The sale of BA Connect this year to Flybe and more recently GB Airways to easyJet leaves BA with just three destinations from Manchester - Heathrow, Gatwick and New York.

Marianne Sammann, Lufthansa's general manager for the UK, said: "We are seeing strong growth out of Manchester, business travel is going well. Manchester became a big opportunity for us when BA decided to abandon the regions."

Lufthansa carried almost 576,000 passengers to and from Manchester in 2006 - a 13.5 per cent increase on 2005 and setting a new airline record for the second year running...

..."Manchester is our second-largest operation outside London and we are very pleased to be in Manchester.

"More people are using us and our hubs in Frankfurt and Munich as an alternative to Heathrow.

"We are seeing enormous growth here - customers tell us that we offer a better use of their time."

Lufthansa, is the second-largest scheduled airline after bmi in Manchester. It operates 85 flights a week to four destinations - Frankfurt, Munich, Dusseldorf and Hamburg..

More than half of passengers flying out of Manchester transfer to onward connections in the airline's global network. The most popular inward destinations being India and China.

"India is a very big market for us. More than half our UK sales to Mumbai come from Manchester, while we have also seen growth in our routes to Pakistan."

Very interesting and no doubt this will certainly add fuel to the fire that is the debate about BA and Manchester (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3713624/#).


i think this should be good.

[viscount702]

Does anyone know why TOM are stopping LIS at beginning of December. They were bookable through the whole winter timetable until I checked yesterday

Viscount

[MAN Guy]

So another key city seemingly disappears from the network. Makes you wonder how long TLV will last with TOM before they inevitably retrench to serving only the typical Spanish Costa routes.

[Ametyst1]

Perhaps they are suffering from competition now that easyJet has started services between Liverpool and Lisbon. Also, I notice that Jet 2 has dropped the Manchester to Valencia route since Ryanair commenced services from Liverpool to Valencia. That was a rather quick retreat.

[FlyZB]

The TOM Lisbon flight did very well over the Summer but is suffering a bit at the minute in terms of loads. Perhaps it will disappear over Jan and Feb and return end of March? Would be very surprised to see it go altogether.

Don't think there's any danger of TLV being dropped any time soon. Every flight so far has been almost full and advance bookings are very strong.

The LS VLC flight was aimed predominantly at propery owners on the Valencia coastline, rather than for visitors to the city itself. This was obvious from the frequencies and the fact it only operated for 5 months of the year. As much of the development is south of Valencia, travellers visiting properties in that area can use Alicante as an alternative and have been doing so, as it is often cheaper albeit a little further.

I think there is a market for Valencia city breaks but I would say no more than 3 x weekly, 2 x weekly in the winter months, as the city itself doesn't have the same tourist appeal as somewhere like Barcelona.

[MAN Guy]

Lets hope LIS does return for next summer, it would be a shame to have scheduled services to the capitals of Spain, Germany and Portugal all wiped off MAN's network in the space of 12 months!

Not good for the City of Manchester's image / reputation as the "capital of the north".......

[Scottie Dog]

Okay, okay. There has been lots of gossip and guessing and complaining and .......

Firstly to the state of the terminals. I am not a frequent traveller nowadays, however I do visit the land side of the terminals every couple of weeks. The other evening I walked over to T1 & T3 to see exactly what I could find at fault and here are my observations:

Toilets - in general fairly clean conditions. Taps had been left running and bottles of pop/cartons left on the floors. Sodden tissues in one of the basins in the WC at the end of the T1 checkin. Now the fact that taps are left running is down to the lazyness of passengers/visitors. The tissues are agin a fault of the same people who are too lazy to even think of depositing them into one of the toilets. The problem with bottles will never go away until we get the return of bins - and even that will probably never solve the problem as our sense of values does not include using a litter bin (how often do we see people just dropping rubbish when there is a depository within just a few feet of them). Finally all of the toilets have signs asking us to report problems to the airport - do we do that? No we just complain on forums like Pprune.

Signs for a new domestic security area in T were in evidence, but I have seen nothing mentioned on here. Has it opened yet? If it has, will this replace the current main entry to airside. By making this change, how will it effect the space available where the old security check area. Will this solve the problem mentioned by an earlier poster with regard to the opening of Boots on the airside?

Escalators, travellators - shock horry, all working!

Now to the question of our dear friends at Jet2 and easyJet.

Jet2 do appear to have 'had their time'. I hear rumors that they will be downsizing to 6 aircraft and is it pure co-incidence that the airport's incentive of low fees only applies for 3 years on most new routes. Having started with a bigger bang than bmibaby, it is a shame that Jet2 appear to be in retreat.

easyJet is an interesting story. Despite the rather silly post by 'easy manager' in which he says that easyJet will sell their slots, and as already started these slots are not for sale in anycase (check the ACL website for more details), there has to be some truth in the story of their pending arrival. I have heard a lot of the stories that have been doing the rounds, and have seen certain paperwork which would appear to confirm these facts. This is the second time that easyJet have apparantly applied for slots at Manchester, and they will have done their homework into whether they have an interest before making such applications. Whether they take up any opportunity will be of great interest. Whilst I would prefer to see the continuation of a majority of services by scheduled 'IATA' carriers, I am also a realist and accept that times have changed over the years.

Now let's see what does happen in the coming months.

Scottie Dog

[Ian Brooks]

Well written that man, nice to see a constuctive post which I hope puts the verbal battering between the two sides re the terminals to an end ( but I very much doubt it )
Perhaps somebody can enlighten me on what is happening re taxiway work
as all sounds a tad confusing to a non pilot and from what i hear some of the non based crews too



Ian

[Going loco]

If EZY came to MAN but it after year or two it meant less choice and higher fares overall in the North West, would people still want that?

[Scottie Dog]

I am sure that Chiglet or Lord Toofourright wll set me right if I go wrong with my information...

There are two sets of work taking place. One to replace worn out concrete and the other to upgrade the taxiway lighting.

1/ Taxiway Alpha closed at A6 (outside the fire station) until 15th January to replace concrete.
2/ Taxiway Delta closed at D5 (the old East Link) between 2215-0600 until 1st December.
3/ Taxiway Delta closed 2300-0530 between stands 211-212 until 23 November due WIP
4/ Taxiway JF closed abeam stand 43 until 26th November
5/ Starter strip for 23L closed until 25th November.

I am sure that more work will soon be started elsewhere - including the planned new stands around the end of Terminal 3 (where Males Garage is).

Scottie Dog

[eggc]

Going Loco...That would be a valid argument if as soon as EZY / RYR open up a new destination from LPL the traditional MAN carriers concede the route almost instanly. Result is the same as EZY coming to MAN themselves - no competition ! A future base at MAN isn't a threat to choice - EZY/RYR are doing very well at it already !!!

[chiglet]

I "had" to fly to Gatwick [and back] for a course.....Three colleagues were also travelling with me, all booked by the same "agency"....there was a difference of £70 for the same trip[s]...
Scotty, perhaps you can shed some light on this matter....
OOI, the transit through T3 was fairly swift, albeit crowded [08.30 dep] and painless. The arrival, [again] was painless...apart from the walk from Gate 48, but we only had to wait 2-3 mins for our bags...:D
However, the comparison between the two [Major] Airports, IMMHO, is not very favourable to Manch I am afraid to say......
watp,iktch

[MAN Guy]

Going loco - the choice MAN's current loco's are offering (particularly on the city destinations) seems to be shrinking all the time. So to be honest although a possible Easyjet base wouldn't be welcomed by all, there would hopefully be some important destinations re-appearing on MAN's departure boards.

I take you're point on fares though, if they do indeed set up at MAN and see some of the other loco's off certain routes, you could well see higher prices on route where just they end up operating.

[Ian Brooks]

Thanks Scottie Dog I can go and have a read of the charts now
sad isn`t it!

Ian

[Vuelo]

Actually, most of you are completely wroing about LS at MAN. They are merely reorganising their route netork so that LBA becomes their short haul base and MAN is sunshine routes and long haul. I understand that the 737s that are leaving are to be replaced with more 757s and also 767s. We will in fact be seeing quite a boom from LS over the next year or so at MAN, but not to Europe but to much further afield across the Atlantic.

Very exciting times ahead for LS at MAN.

[Keyvon]

Centralwings has added its 3rd route from MAN : Poznan, which will be served 3 times weekly, effective from 30th March.

[andy mach 1]

Just checked the timetable for the Centralwings Poznan flights which seem to use the Krakow based aircraft as follows.

0735 Arr Krakow dep 0815 Poznan arr 1740 Poznan dep 1815 Krakow and is shown as running 4 days a week Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Nothing showing for the Warsaw flights as yet.

Andrew:D

[Ian Brooks]

No they seem to be loading airports in alphabetic order from each airport as not all Shannon flights loaded


Ian

[FlyZB]

Would LS concentrating on sunshine routes and long haul really be a good thing though? The sunshine routes are saturated enough and if they really were to offer a long haul operation, I would imagine that they'd consider Orlando, New York etc. Routes that are already well served from Manchester. Jet2 only seem interested in going for tried and tested destinations. What MAN needs is a carrier that has the bottle to serve destinations that aren't bucket and space or obvious money makers. Anyone can make the likes of AGP successful (unless you're GB that is!) but we need someone to come in and make the likes of MAD, LIS etc a success too. Jet2 have proven they cannot do that and I'm still sceptical about their very existance in Manchester in the long run.

On a slightly different matter, anyone know what's happening with bmibaby next summer? They have released AGP, ALC & PMI but no news on anything else. Will there be any new routes, dropped routes or will they just stick to what they've got?

[MAN Guy]

Jet2 have proven they cannot do that and I'm still sceptical about their very existance in Manchester in the long run

Totally agree FlyZB...... my crystal ball says they won't hang around at MAN for the long run if we all turn orange at MAN from next summer. If we don't turn orange I think they'll just chug along with the run of the mill stuff and that will be it.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

With regard to the Thomsonfly MAN-LIS route, I again had the opportunity to avail myself of this service just last week - shortly before the (Winter?) suspension. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the load factors which appeared to be around the 70% mark in each direction. On my previous trip back in June, the European B737-200 then used was virtually full both ways. Obviously, I have no access to data concerning yield/profitability of this service, but the visible signs were encouraging. It was notable that a very high proportion of the passengers were Portuguese, probably over 50% of the total. Thomsonfly appears to have achieved high awareness of the service in Lisbon itself and deserves recognition for this. Indeed, Thomsonfly has even sponsored a traditional Lisbon tram which trundles round the city in sky blue Thomson colours with a large slogan promoting the Manchester flights. (I hurriedly leapt aboard this tram hoping to ready my camera for a photo of it at the turning circle, but it turned into the depot instead and I was politely requested to disembark! Just my luck...). In view of the apparent popularity of MAN-LIS this Summer, it would be deeply disappointing if the current suspension reflected anything more than the Mid-Winter low season, but we will have to wait and see. Certainly, TUI Group is reported to be cutting back on Citybreak style destinations.

With regard to the transits of Manchester Airport itself - I do at least one return trip per month through the airport - MAN (sadly) did not cover itself with glory on this occasion. I would dearly love to report otherwise, but MAN does seem to have forgotten the art of doing the simple things well - the ones which could be put right with minimal expense. On the outward journey, the Skylink travelators were switched off. This is BAD BAD BAD! I'm aware of all the current fashionable nause regarding saving energy during "quiet" hours. The check-in halls are NOT quiet after 0500; take a look! Tired passengers with luggage do NOT think "Oh great, MA is saving energy again" when they find the lifts and travelators switched off. They DO think "This place is a ****ing Shambles!" For goodness sake MAplc, fit motion sensors to the escalators and travelators like the German airports do and make your energy savings without inconveniencing the customers.

I like my comments to be balanced, so I am pleased to report the positives too. Check-in was polite and smooth, T2 security efficient - very quick indeed - and conducted with a smile (even when my shoes set off the metal detector). T2 was generally clean and the toilets were fine. The only negative comment airside concerns the 'Iris Recognition' registration facility again being closed during its published hours of availabilty. (I had cause to regret that one later!).

The handling of the inbound flight to MAN T2 was my worst experience of the airport this year - again due to easily avoidable carelessness. The Thomsonfly B737-300 parked remote on 86L (alongside the Staff West Car Park) where it was met by two transfer buses. So far so good. Unfortunately, when the two buses arrived at the bus drop-off point neither driver was able to open the coded door to the terminal building. "The handlers say they're sending someone down to let you in," we were told. And yes, TWENTY MINUTES later someone appeared to open the door and let in around 100 very fed-up customers. What will they be telling their friends about the Manchester Airport experience when they return home? Will they insist "Book me from Manchester" next time? How much does it cost to give the bus drivers the code to open the door to arrivals? How many millions of investment does that take? And to add to the beauty of this situation, the aircraft which landed immediately behind us was PIA709 operated by a Boeing 777-300. By the time we entered the building it had fully disembarked some 400+ passengers which made for an immense queue at immigration. I left the airport more than one hour after landing - and that was with hand-luggage only.

I am the first to point out that this type of experience is not the norm; I have enjoyed many flawless transits through MAN this year (and afew poor ones). The security queues have improved noticably. But my point is that the best assistance MA can give to support new services such as Thomsonfly's MAN-LIS is to ensure that passengers enjoy the airport experience and are keen to choose MAN again for their journeys. Why not decamp to a no-frills shed somewhere if they remember MAN for 'broken' lifts/travelators/escalators and being locked out of the terminal building for 20 minutes whilst standing in a cold overcrowded bus? However much MA invests in retail outlets and catering facilities, passengers take it for granted that quality is a pre-requisite for these. What they do remember are the uncleared tables, inactive escalators, queues and locked doors which could be rectified for PEANUTS!

We have just watched 'no-frills' specialist Liverpool win a major travel industry award for 'Best UK Airport'. Let this be a wake-up call. If MAN can't compete with LPL on landing fees and turnaround times, it should at least surpass them on quality of experience inside the terminal buildings. Our inactive travelators, dirty tables and locked doors suggest we are falling sadly short of achieving even that any time soon. And why do large areas of the airport have NO SEATING for the poor elderly people who have to walk even further just to enter the terminal building following recent security scares? Where do they sit to rest a while? Are you surprised that many of these are choosing smaller terminals at rival airports for this reason alone? What price afew benches - how many millions?

MAN is facing a likely drop in passenger throughput in 2008. That is not an ideal situation, but it is economic reality. But the respite also presents opportunity - not to cut staff and service further - but to perfect an airport experience which passengers will want to choose for ease of travel and for enhanced comfort (as well as to spend their money!). Travel from MAN often costs more than a flight from LPL to the same destination; we at the airport must give the customers reason to choose the MAN experience at that premium rather than the LPL one. I passionately believe that MAN must offer added value to customers in order to facilitate that choice. Airlines such as Monarch and Thomsonfly from MAN offer much better service than Ryanair and Easyjet from LPL once passengers have boarded; MAplc needs to match that level of service before the passengers board. Give the customers a reason to think beyond price alone.

This stuff should not be difficult. Let's sort it out!

Apologies for the length of the posting! SHED.

[Mouser]

Shed,
Nip up the motorway and jump on a real lo-cost airline to Lisbon, instead of charter/lo-co ish airline.

[MUFC_fan]

Or carry on using a REAL airline!;)

The LIS service will be back next year and hopefully with a greater frequency and there to show MAN still has control over LPL!:}

Anybody know how long it will be before AI or Jet will be flying to MAN from India? Can't be long surely!

[Mouser]

We'll see whether the charter / lo-cost ish airline will be back next year, now there's an lo-cost airline on the route

[MAN Guy]

MUFC_fan - There were reports not too long ago that delegates from AI has stated their desire to restart MAN flights at a North West trade conference.

Maybe just the usual lip-service I guess but here's hoping there is something in it as it does seem strange that MAN still has no scheduled link with India.

[EC-ILS]

Even the escalators in DUB have motion sensors!

What is happening with the toilets in MAN are they being refurbished any time soon?

[mickyman]

Of all the things to contemplate when flying
from/to an airport I have never been so 'ANAL'
as too ceaselessly (?) harp on about toilet
facilities.........Perhaps im in the minority
that take the view that the toilets might
be ****ty because '****ty' people use them.

Ive never passed through and checked out
the 'dumping grounds' of any airport.

This years 'silly season' has turned into an
'anal silly season' - or
perhaps the chief toilet attendant of Airports
North has cancelled the Christmas bash
and the workers have no-where else to
vent their spleen!!

Get a life !!

MM.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Mouser-

I must point out to you that my posting does not criticise the Thomsonfly experience at any point. Quite the contrary. Their flights were punctual, efficient and offered exemplary in flight service. In fact, I have done twelve trips with Thomsonfly this year and would happily recommend the experience.

In contrast, I have booked Easyjet just once (and not at all this year). With very good reason. When I turned up at Orly for my lunchtime flight to Geneva, the check-in staff just laughed. "Oh zees one nevere operates! We ave poot you on zee evening one!" And what about my onward transfer to Chamonix then? [Shrug of the shoulders]. That is why I will certainly NOT be rushing anywhere to be treated like that again ... "fool me once - shame on you; fool me twice - shame on me!". Label Thomsonfly Charter/No-Frills whatever you want ... the fact is they have never let me down and have earned my trust and respect as a customer. Give them a try yourself Mouser and experience the difference.

For the record, I do not work for Thomsonfly (or Easyjet).

[HiflierEK]

Jet2 will start trailling a premium seats only config 757 on flights to NYC an YYZ early nxt year and hope to have regular flights this time nxt year .

[MUFC_fan]

JET2.COM,

I'm guessing you work for the airline?

If so, can you give us some more information PLEASE?!

I can understand why they could try a NYC business class as it doesn't look like MAXjet/Silverjet/EOS are looking anywhere North of LTN at the moment.

Lets hope this comes off for the airline. Guessing the premium option would only work at MAN?

[BombardierCR7]

I'm sure the shareholders will welcome that move with yet another 20% drop in value.

[MAN Guy]

Would a premium-only service really work from MAN? I'm not entirely convinced.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Well, TCX regard their Canadian config. as all premium, so I'm sure Jet2 can find the right niche for MAN somewhere between Charter Cattle Class and EOS and call it Premium.... it's all relative, son :} :ok:

[MUFC_fan]

Manchester is starting to grow on the business side and with the BBC moving alot of it's offices etc. up to the North West city, it will no doubt result in other companies moving to Manchester.

I don't think an 'EOS' airline is needed in MAN but a Maxjet would suit the airport perfectly to destinations mentioned above, especially on the Toronto where it is now only served by either economy or the 'premium economy' by ZM or TCX which isn't exactly designed for the businessman/woman!

The only problem with the NYC flights is that they will not be operating connecting flights in the US (like CO/DL) or use your airmiles (BA).

I'm guessing the airline is now starting to mve away from the low cost model and dip it's feet all over the place! Flight only, charter flights and now business class!

They have already started to 'upgrade' with the new service to the Canaries.

Well done to LS if this is true!

[FlyZB]

Shed, I have nothing but admiration for that (rather long winded!) post. Everything you said speaks perfect sense and is conveyed in a factual but none bitchy way. You've clearly thought through everything you wanted to say prior to posting and reasoned with all the negatives you mention, which is a nice change from the usual bashing that occurs on here.

More often than not, I defend the airport from the relentless bashing. The reason? Because I work for Customer Services and I have to. Basically it's my job. When in uniform I represent MAG and have to take the position of ambassador for the airport. Sometimes, some things that are said become personal. That can't be helped. It's the way we are trained and the way we go about our daily duties. We are the face of Manchester Airport and cannot slag it off in any name, shape or form. At least to the passengers anyway.

Some things that the airport gets slagged off for are unfair. A classic example is poor customer service. Everyone on our team does an amazing job and the same can be said for the handling agents and airlines. The staff work extremely hard in what is a challenging environment, often dealing with difficult customers. To anyone that says the staff at MAN are unfriendly, I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. It's very easy to judge but you try dealing with the idiots we have to deal with and still stay smiling.

There are many other examples. Travellators for instance constantly get slated on here. Many of you make fair points but the fact of the matter is, more often than not the travellators aren't working because kids have been playing with the emergency stop button. This is not an excuse, just pointing out a fact. The point I am trying to make is, it's very easy to slag off the running of an airport without any knowledge of what exactly happens behind the scenes.

Manchester is not perfect, Shed's post highlights this. It has the potential to be great but is unfortunately let down in certain areas. There are many issues that need to be rectified and often the reason behind these issues is lack of investment by senior management. In my capacity I would never defend Geoff Muirhead or any of his board, as I believe that their greed has been the downfall of the airport over the past few years. However, the airport is not third world as many of you seem to believe. It has a great deal going for it and if it can iron out such problems then I truly believe it will be a top European airport again very soon. The drop in passenger numbers is the golden opportunity to sort things out whilst the terminals are below capacity and prove that we are the best airport in the region.

Things have already been recognised as needing improvement. All three terminals currently resemble construction sites and by next summer new security areas will have been constructed to decrease queuing time. All the seats have been replaced across the terminals recently and by next Spring all toilet units will have been revamped. These may only be small things but as Shed has pointed out, it's numerous small things added together that MAN is doing wrong. There will be dramatic improvements by next summer and hopefully this will continue.

We can all pick faults at anything. I was at LPL last Sunday and the security queue was a good 30 mins long. Added to that you have to pay 50p for a plastic bag for your liquids and no-one was on hand to help out. At Manchester the plastic bags are free and there's staff to assist you before you reach security. I could well go on the Pprune Liverpool forum and start slagging off the airport but I don't. Because overall the experience was good. Just as I believe the overall MAN experience isn't all that bad. I'll hold my hands up and admit there's problems and yes, we need to sort them out asap. But it's not all doom and gloom. Surely?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

FlyZB -

I applaud your response and agree wholeheartedly with the points you make. The friendliness of MAN's staff has long been the key asset of the entire operation. I recognise too that MAN has many positives, and the constant construction work around the airport yields frequent infrastructure improvements on a cumulative basis. Indeed, it is the fact that MAN has so many of the big issues under control which makes it frustrating that the easily rectified minor details get overlooked.

MAplc is investing telephone number sums in terminal improvements and that is fantastic. I just urge them to put aside £1 million to sort out some minor issues which so frustrate the customers. Movement sensors on the travelators (which are deliberately switched off at night); seating for the elderly and infirm to pause in the check-in halls; an extra pair of hands hired to clear the restaurant tables; a reliable mechanism for opening the terminal door. It's the fact that the airport is within touching distance of excellence which frustrates me; MAplc reacts commendably to refurbishment and expansion needs costing millions but somehow contrives to overlook the "penny details" which so influence the passenger experience. I just plead with MA to spend the pence as well as the pounds.

As for yourself and your staff, Fly ZB, top marks. I work on the airport site too (for a different employer) and hold MA's terminal staff in the highest regard.

Cheers, SHED.

[HiflierEK]

I have no more information about these longhaul flights, apart from yes i do work at jet2 and the news came from a very reliable source. Apparently the seats have already been ordered and the 757 will hold around 160 pax. Watch this space!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

But the last l heard from a source within, is that they plan to have ETOPS approval by the end of summer 2008.
So it looks like it is going to cost a lot more money to run at the start of the operation.

[MAN Guy]

Well interesting move by Jet2 if its going to happen. Strange though that they would want to market a premium-only service when their core brand is "the Low Cost Airline". In my opinion not many business or premium-leisure passengers would ever associate the name Jet2 with premium travel so its going to take a lot of convincing to win over the type of passenger it would want to attract for this new venture.

Lets hope they re-brand this proposed premium part of the business or it could all fall flat on its face.

Just my opinion :)

[gazza007]

This week was may annual birthday trip for 4 days to Costa Del Sol, I was amazed how smooth my T3 transit was. Left home @ 05:00 Thru Security by 05:30, unfortunately WW to AGP was slightly delayed as we had to take on more fuel after boarding due to French strikes which meant going further west & adding about 25 mins. Anyway bags at AGP are always ready by the time I've nipped to the bathroom, I wish MAN was like this!!! Anyway pleasantly suprised on return Friday. 13:10 arrival on 05L, quick taxi exit to gate, bags on belt at 13:25 home by 13:40. I know that it was a quiet time but excellent work by the staff.. PS Much prefer the earlier WW deps from MAN & AGP this year.

[HH6702]

NCL to NYC to start mid summer 2008!!

YYZ and SFB also on the cards?

[MUFC_fan]

DL JFK service to go daily next summer. Next years scheduled legacy carrier daily routes (long haul):

CO71 EWR 09:25 dept 752
BA1503 JFK 10:00 dept 763
DL155 JFK 11:00 dept 752
CO101 EWR 11:30 dept 752
US735 PHL/LAX 10:55 dept 333
AA55 ORD/LAX 10:35 dept 763
BD705 ORD 11:00 dept 332
VS075 MCO 10:25 dept 744
DL65 ATL 12:00 dept 764
SQ327 SIN 10:00 dept 772
EK018 DXB 14:05 dept 77W
EK020 DXB 20:50 dept 77W
QR042 DOH 10:20 dept 332
EY022 ABU (changes dept) 332
PK702 LAH 18:00 dept 772
PK712 LAHORE/KARACHI 10:30 dept 773

Those are what I can remember, any more?

Cheers.

[MUFC_fan]

NCL to NYC to start mid summer 2008!!

YYZ and SFB also on the cards?


How do you know?

[HiflierEK]

Flights to the states will be from MAN an LBA. I think its wishfull thinking for NCL. They need to start filling and making a profit on there current routes.

[MAN Guy]

Am I the only one who things its odd that they can't sustain a service from Manchester to Berlin as the only operator on the sector, yet they want to join four other established carriers on the Manchester to New York run selling premium seats?!

Genius move or bizarre move??? Know what I think :eek:

[This Charming Man]

I've had it confirmed to me today that JET2 will reduce based aircraft from 8 to 6 for Summer08.

[ringwaysgoneforever]

They are only having 5 based A/C, 3 757's and 2 737's.

[GLENO]

Are jet2 leaving the door wide open for Easyjet to operate???............

[MAN Guy]

You'd have to say the door is wide open at the minute but will U2 take the plunge?!

Any further news on the U2 "will they / won't they" question at this stage?

[Vuelo]

The slots have been applied for so presumably they are sorting out aircraft etc. There is no doubt in my mind MAN is to turn orange soon, we just wait for an announcement.

[easy manager]

DONT YOU GUYS EVER LISTEN WE ALWAYS APL FOR SLOTS AT MAN BUT WE NEVER TAKE THEM UP:ugh: I WILL SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME WE (EASYJET) ARE NOT REPEAT NOT GOING TO FLY FROM MANCHESTER:E

[Scottie Dog]

Well that's put me in my place!!!:}

To be serious though there is not always smoke without fire.

By the way easy manager - I think we got your message the first time, but it's fun to speculate!!

[BLKsheriff]

I know this is the MAN board...EasyManager are your gang going to do anything with Blackpool instead?

[Ringwayman]

I thought last year was the 1st time easyJet applied for slots, given the amount of kerfuffle it caused with press stories coming out, quotes from orangeland having to be amended, etc?

[Scottie Dog]

Slots were applied for the Summer 2005 season.

Nothing was applied for in 2006 or 2007 - so easy manager's statement is already found to be lacking in substance. ;)

[MAN Guy]

Easy Manager I take it by the large red writing that you are somewhat keen to press you're point home this evening?!

Seriously though, I'm interested to know what makes you so absolutely sure that they are not going to fly from Manchester? Aviation by its very nature is dynamic and airline priorities can change all the time. Not so many moons ago word on the street was that BA were committed to Manchester, and they even had a nice shiny new Terminal so show it. Now look where BA's commitment to Manchester is.......nowhere!

[pwalhx]

It seems somewhat strange easy manager has made only 2 posts, both to deny they are interested in slots at Manchester. Wouldnt you have thought he/she would have had some comments to make on other easy rumours???????

[FlyZB]

Easy Manager, after your first post you never replied to my question asking what made you so sure that EZY wouldn't operate from Manchester. Your second post, as big and bold as it may be, still doesn't answer that question. It's simply an outlandish statement, which if you don't mind I'm going to take with a pinch of salt and carry on hoping that the future at MAN is orange.

If you would like to prove me wrong with some facts or at least opinions to back up your statement, then please do so.

[GLENO]

Come on Easymanager!!....Are you going to tell us all where you have heard this info?.........Come on don't leave us all hanging on a string!!:}

[Playamar2]

Seem set to increase to 11 per week from Summer 2008 if news/info reported on another forum is to be believed.

[jongeman]

MUFC Fan - you can also add to that list BD's other long-haul to LAS or the Caribbean, roughly twice daily Toronto, 4 or 5 weekly to Vancouver and/or Calgary, and SV/LN/RB. It's still pretty good for a non-hub airport; a bit of growth would be nice.

On another note, it's pretty odd that easyjet WILL NEVER fly from MAN, seeing as the local population and local economy are so much bigger, more wealthy and more lucrative than neighbouring Liverpool. If the truth be told.

[Grolsch30]

Hi,

Does anyone have any info about locost TUIFLY (formally HLX), ceasing the Man to HAJ Hannover flight next year and or all flights?

[This Charming Man]

Pwalhx - I agree there is a distinct lack of posts from ' easy manager' re '' other easy news'' ;)

[Scottie Dog]

Always amazes me that questions are sometimes asked without the poster having attempted to look at the relevant website.

I honestly don't know the full answer to your question, however if you look at hlx.com you will see that flights are loaded for the entire summer for Koln and Stuttgart. Hanover does look as if it is being dropped.

Hope that helps.

[Playamar2]

Grolsch30

Confirmed the Hanover is ceasing. Koln & Stuttgart are staying but with a revised schedule - Mon & tues mornings, other days except Sat in the evening.
Info is freely avaiable on their website.

[MAN Guy]

Their expansion at MAN for next summer is hardly going to set the place on fire..... INV-MAN route now confirmed from May 08 and thats it!

Surprised they don't want to look at the summer Croatia market from MAN. In my opinion the Dubrovnik and Split routes would suit the E195. Having said that there are other routes that I'm surprised they don't want to touch too.

[pug]

Wasnt it MAN who origionaly didnt want Easyjet? Anyway beside the point i think there is a huge market to tap in Manchester for EZY flights, would that dent the lpl operations at all?

I cant now see any reason they wouldnt go to MAN, the reason they started at LPL was because they discovered the huge potential of the area with the cheaper less busy airport! They were the brains behind the LPL expansion not Peel!

[viscount702]

BE aren't expanding they are doing the reverse. They have added INV but dropped Limoges and Bergerac. Small increase to NWI but otherwise some reductions and downgrading. A number of flights to FRA BRU CDG and elsewhere are DH4 the only E195 I can see is MXP as well as a couple of none based to BFS and SOU

As BE have added INV I would think Eastern will withdraw.

Poor show really but not to be unexpected as I don't believe BE have any committment to MAN.

[Ian Brooks]

It`s obvious that not all the routes can be operated by EMB-195 as there just are not enough of them ( 8 to cover all UK bases some of which have flights of quite a long stage length ) so with EMB-145 gradually going the larger if a little slower Dash 8 is left to most flights of upto 1 1/2 flights

Our first based EMB-195 arrives in about an hour and is I am now told it will night stop so Milan a good chance morning

edited to amend re Manchester 1st EMB-195 at 19:18


Ian

[jongeman]

I'm not so sure that BE don't have a commitment to MAN. They've been busy turning round old BACON routes at MAN and BHX.

[TechProblem]

195 will op the BRU tomorrow morning, then i think the MXP later in the day. 146 is now on bhd/edi.