MANCHESTER - 5

[GLENO]

Fly ZB, yes the place is a dump.....at the moment....it has has been for ages......Could be better?....Should be better!!!....time to take a reality check.......about time they thought about ploughing all the money into one airport and not buying into others!....have a word in their ear will you?

Solution is simple....big extension to T3 and T2 Knock down T1 and blow up the car park which is years old!, start again with a clean piece of paper!! .........oh if it were that easy!!

When is the extension to T3 due to start with the extended apron space and are there any plans to re vamp/demolish pier B before next spring????

[1station]

Gleno

T3 extension is underway with demolition almost complete of the old Males garage.

[AndyH52]

Out of interest does anyone have a rough split of how how pax numbers are split between T1, T2 and T3?

[viscount702]

Correct me if I am wrong but the only extension to T3 which I think is going ahead at the moment is the addition of three remote stands, nothing more.

Further is this in fact an extension considering the loss of two stands on T3 56 and 57 and the three south Bay stands and 12 and 14 in T1. I think 12 and 14 or one or both of them may be reinstated in due course but the position isn't clear to me.

The larger extension to T3 has not so I understand it yet been finalised or given the go ahead.

Viscount

[FlyZB]

That is correct. The proposed extension to T3 in terms of the actual terminal building still needs board approval and will take up to 5 years to be completed fully. Similarly the plans for both Piers in T1 will be on the same time scale. There is no way that the Piers will be completed anytime before that because of the implications of taking out so many stands at once. There is an awful lot of work still to do both on the airfield and within the terminals. Gleno, if the option to bulldoze T1 was available then I'm sure they'd go for it. The checkin hall and car park are in serious need of updating but with all the airside work that's going on right now and scheduled for the future, these projects will be a long way off. Despite all the building work and different levels, nooks and crannies that are associated with T1, it still remains the most popular terminal amongst travellers according to the airport's own customer service surveys. T2 fairs the worse. Anyway here is a rough outline of the proposed schedule of events due to take place over the coming years. These are all terminal based redevelopments, I have no information regarding the apron but I'm sure someone will.

New T2 OBC: Opens July 16th.
T2 airside redevelopment: Due for completion Spring 2009.
T1 airside redevelopment: Due for completion Spring 2009.
New T3 OBC: Fully complete by September 2008.
T3 apron extension: Due for completion Winter 2008/09.
T2 pier extension up to Gate 219: Work due to commence Summer 2009.
T3 terminal extension: Awaiting board approval. Due to be complete by 2013.
T1 pier redevelopments: Awaiting board approval. Time scale 3-5 years.

[MAN777]

This follows on nicely from the previous few post regarding cleaning or lack of.


Manchester Airport strike threat : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-250608a.htm)

[ManofMan]

Great Wall are to pull service from 05th July until further notice blaming rising fuel costs.....

The crunch continues.

[strid]

TSR2-

Strid
Bmibaby flight at 07.15 to Palma on Tuesdays should be an Airbus A319.


Hmm, just checked bmibaby's site is it says they only have B737 - 300 x 15 and 4x 500 series. Flight Number is WW3545, any more suggestions?

[Mr A Tis]

Baby are temporarily using a BMI mainline A320 until another 737 is delivered during the summer.
Enjoy the Airbus, much better than some of their "tired" machines.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Just came back from BOD having flown both ways on the BMI MAinline A/c.

4 hours delay on the way out and 1 hour coming back, BMI crew not happy and didn't restrain themselves from having a go about Baby......

[TSR2]

From the 17th June, WW3545 from Manchester to Palma has been operated by either A319 (G-DBCK) or A320 (G-MIDP) from BMI Mainline.

However, they MAY revert back to B733 from July 8th.

[TSR2]

On the other hand, I have just noticed that WW3545 presumably from the 8th July will be operated at 07.25 by A321 aircraft from BMI Mainline.

[TSR2]

WW3545 operates Monday to Friday.
Each day this past week it has been operated by A319 G-DBCK. The week before it was operated each day by A320 G-MIDP.
An educated guess would be a change to A321 at 07.25 from July 7th.

[strid]

TSR2

WW3545 operates Monday to Friday.
Each day this past week it has been operated by A319 G-DBCK. The week before it was operated each day by A320 G-MIDP.
An educated guess would be a change to A321 at 07.25 from July 7th

Thanks :ok:

[Ex Cargo Clown]

According to Mainline BMI CC, the A321 was in maintenance hence the Sub for the mainline A319.

I don't know what the problems coming out of PMI are though, it appears to be a daily problem that runs on through the day.

[OltonPete]

acarsd shows G-MIDC A321 BD9573 MAN-BUD 02/06/2008.

I know the baby 733's go to BUD for maintenance (I think G-TOYL
is there now or was).

I am not sure how long they usually stay but the 733's are usually
gone a month or so.

If the MAN loads are anything like the current BHX ones they will
be able to making use of the 321 in the coming month or two.

Pete

[G-STAW]

this has been on the cards for a while. We have just employed around 50 new staff. i was talking to a fueler yesterday and hes flying with thomascook in november from T2!hopefully these rumors will be true.....

ill try and get some more info

PS. SQ A380 i routing LHR-MAN-SIN mosy likely on August 7th, as there is no slots for the T7 yet, it will be parking on stand 62(remote).....

G-STAW

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Question -

Further to information in another thread on this forum (Eastern to close another base), can anybody confirm the status of Eastern's MAN-INV scheduled service? Is it withdrawn, about to be withdrawn, or safe due to being crewed remotely from INV? Your insights will be appreciated ...

Thanks, SHED.

[Musket90]

SHED

MAN-INV no longer bookable on Eastern web site. Understand last flight was 29th June.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Thanks, Musket90. More disappointing news.

SHED.

[jongeman]

Not so disappointing shed when you consider that BE will shift many more people at a more affordable price (between MAN and INV) than Eastern ever could.

[Ringwayman]

Didn't T3 offer £99 return fares MAN-INV. Surely that's not too bad? How many people would BE have to carry before making profits? Short-term perhaps a rise in the number of pax but long-term I doubt if they would want to operate Q400s on the route when the "smaller" aircraft leave their fleet. Or if they did, bet your bottom dollar that frequency would be 1 daily and not the 2 ERJ145s that I believe currently operate the route.

[scrapy]

Easyjet Winter Schedule Now on Sale, not very exciting

Alicante
Malaga
Malta
Paphos
Tenerife South

Innsbruck is shown but not bookable

[Ringwayman]

There's no surprise in the U2 routes as they probably want to see how a winter's operation pans out. Next year is when we should get an A319 which I would hope lend itself to at least 3 new U2 destinations ex-MAN, if all operated on a daily basis and probably 5 or so if they operate multiple weekly.

The only real disappointment would be the lack of a Geneva service, but I guess they are still working out if it's possible to do it using a Geneva based aircraft.

_____

Anyway, Cyprus Airways looks like an airline that may be announcing a rise in frequencies to MAN soon.

[ETOPS]

BMI Baby seem to have a "tiny" problem tonight. Last three services cancelled, making 5 in total today. Any behind-the-scenes info? Mrs ETOPS has been on standby this afternoon - if she'd known she could have had a drink!!

[Ex Cargo Clown]

I'm willing to bet that the late night PRG is cancelled.

There seems to be a massive problem with the early PMI flight which bounces on to the BOD and causes the PRG to be cancelled.

We copped for it on the o/b BOD the other week, 4 1/2 hour delay, 2 hours sat on aircraft and they still charged for food and drinks....

[viscount702]

In light of the U2 Winter schedule what are U2's plans for Man

When they announced the MAN base they they indicated 5 based A/C by 2010

There was some hope that in Summer 08 they may have added some addition routes over the ex GT ones even if not by based A/C. This didn't happen and Winter 08/09 is no different.

It has been said many time that slots don't mean flights.

However I found this extract from Airport Coordination Ltd on MAN summer 08 interesting

"EZY - Easyjet - Canx plans for three based A319's operating daily AGP, BRU, CGN, HAM, PMI, RAK and TLS, also three per day BFS. Plus nonbased daily GVA, LYS, MAD and twice daily MXP"

This would imply that U2 had some intention of operating extra flights from summer 08 but then cancelled those plans and there is nothing new for winter either other than ALC which wasn't even on the list. Neither is INN which GT operated last year

Many of those possible routes were to existing destinations.

It has been said that U2 were reviewing there smaller bases and MAN although new was one of them.

Could it be that the review put any expansion plans on hold and this coupled with the other problems affecting all airlines at present means that expansion is likely to be delayed even further.

Also the Announcement of the MAN base originally was delayed apparently partly due to MAPLC. Could it be that despite all the present problems with lost flights that MAPLC still has concerns about U2 particularly when they wish to start services to destinations already served.

Viscount

[G-TTIC]

I would imagine 319s won't be seen at MAN until the subfleet is fully integrated. All MAN cabin crew will need conversion courses.

[TSR2]

Both the PMI and BOD flights arrived back in Manchester today on time but still the PRG flight was cancelled. The other two cancelled flights were Belfast and Knock.

[viscount702]

People keep mentioning the integration and the conversions which are necessary. However from reading various posts nothing at least on the conversion front would appear to be happening.

Further and more importantly if expansion is to take place more crew need to be recruited to operate from MAN who would be trained on the appropriate equipment in the process but again there doesn't seem to be any sign of this happening at present. In fact there would seem to be a shortage of F/O as it is.

Which goes back to my original point that expansion doesn't seem to be going ahead or at least going ahead as quickly as was originally envisaged.

Viscount

[Bagso]

Re EASY

..surely talk of any expansion has to be against the backdrop of a general downturn in economic activity.

How on earth can we expect any major expansion when basic operating costs have doubled and customers are travelling less ?:ugh:

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Are you going to try to have BMI Baby shut down as well as Jet2 then?:mad:

[G-TTIC]

However from reading various posts nothing at least on the conversion front would appear to be happening.

Very little happening at LGW either. I believe they're trying to slowly bring things into line as much as posible before the end of summer when I can only assume they'll release a new manual and a short course. (This is from CC point of view.)

[Rampmole]

Servisair to get Thomas Cook
this has been on the cards for a while. We have just employed around 50 new staff. i was talking to a fueler yesterday and hes flying with thomascook in november from T2!hopefully these rumors will be true.....


How will T2 accomodate this operation?? surley make more sense to stay on T1 if going to servisair or not.

[G-STAW]

How will T2 accomodate this operation?? surley make more sense to stay on T1 if going to servisair or not.


well exactly,but MAN managment do want all charters on T2, would make sense, with emirates and singapore both moving to T1 within 12 months, T2 will become more of an charter terminal....

G-STAW

[Skipness One Echo]

Considering that all the long haul scheds are currently at T2 are you sure that's the plan? T1 isn't big enough to deal with all the morning heavies.

[Momentary Lapse]

In the past MAPLC mgmt have always said that separating charter/sched etc. across each terminal wouldn't work due to the effect of the peaks and troughs, and that there had to be a mix in each terminal to spread the pax flows out across the day.

I expect they are now following the retailers' views that if terminals are dedicated to certain types, they can tune the retail offers better, to maximise revenue.

I think the retailers are right, but it will make the operation harder and peakier.

So, what's forced the change of heart, and I ask if mgmt even know what they're doing, or are they just clutching at a different straw to see if it'll work better than what they're doing now? In the meantime, more wasted capital writing off the last failure, and more disruption to customers while everything's changed.

[G-STAW]

heres the 5 year plan;

T1 - All schedules
T2 - All Charter
T3 - Low cost


thats the basics of it, that comes from the apron control manager.

I understand that its going to take time and alot of effort to see it through, but the result would mean a very efficient airport.....

G-STAW

[Wodrick]

Working and flying since 1972 at Manchester I have just had the easiest arrival ever, ZB661 ex AGP yesterday evening arrival 2210.
I think you will agree the prognosis apparently not good. Apart from the Stand 10 obstacle course, superb. Bypass immigration with Iris, naturally, then to baggage hall expecting the usual interminable wait, but no ! get trolley and bags coming through !
Stroll to Staff West and home, all within 45 mins. Congratulations to all involved.

[AOG-YYZ]

Just back from the UK where I heard a rumour that Peel Airports and Manchester Airport are in some high level (secret) talks over something big. My source said it could be either the building of a high speed link between MAN and LPL, along the land owned by Peel and/or a takeover of one group by the other?

[Squealing Pig]

Hi-speed link - would EGGP become MAN Terminal 4 and 09/27 become runway 3?

MAPLC takover Peel - Why on earth would would they want the Trafford center? Or see above and replace 'EGGP' with 'EGCB' .

Peel takeover MAPLC - very likely! but would that mean Peel would own EMA too ?

Seriously the hi-speed link could be a viable concept as 80-90% of the route could use existing and disused railway track beds. if you follow the line from the station at MAN north it crosses another line, follow that one west, part way it becomes an old disused line just before Carrington. it then crosses the Manchester ship canal and joins the Liverpool to Manchester line the thru Warrington. Then it could branch off before the Ford plant at Halewood to LPL. Alternately as Peel own the Manchester ship canal and plenty of land around it, when it crosses the ship canal follow the ship canal along the North bank where the ship canal company used to have a service line (bit tricky though as some bits of that line now have houses and roads built on) to Runcorn an then join the line over the Mersey then branch off at Fords etc etc.

Seems quite an good idea that could help to expand LPL and MAN jointly.

[HeliCraig]

Then it could branch off before the Ford plant at Halewood to LPL

Not one to be picky (much!!), but that's now a Jaguar Land Rover plant.

That said, sounds like an easy idea to implement - but what would the advantages be of having two airports linked by high speed rail.... I am lost on that one??

Might improve the connectivity of both from the main cities / lines they serve I suppose??

[Higher Archie]

Peel to buy MAPLC - The Competition Commission would be interested. (MAN - LPL, DFA - EMA)
MAPLC to buy Peel Airports - The Competition Commission would be interested. (MAN - LPL, DFA-EMA)

A Rail Link to connect the two airports. It would have to be fast and direct with a jouney time of 15 mins. Major engineering issues, and tunnel under MAN apron, cross Green Belt to hit any unused or freight lines. It can't use the existing line because there is no capacity on the Main Line on any sector up towards Piccadilly. Cost of a new line £750m - £1bn. Commercially this will never happen.

For the North West, it makes sense to have one internationally successful airport, with a strong catchment. That is at MAN. Peel Airports have never made any money from air traffic (only land deals) so why would anyone invest in such a crazy adventure?

[BTNH]

A380 to Manchester ! there have been several rumours since its first flight as to when it might grace Manchesters tarmac, well the latest rumour is the 7th August, routing LHR - MAN - Singapore, due to park on stand 62, we shall wait and see !


I just came across this

[djfingerscrossed]

LPL actually made a profit this year.

LPL desperately needs a runway extension to take some bigger or fully fueled aircraft. We all know how useless the 2nd runway is at MAN during peak times as you can't use both at the same time. Linking both would be an excellent idea and could even begin to genuinely rival LHR/LGW perhaps. Not sure on the finances involved but PEEL are currently reworking the road infrastructure into LPL. Perhaps this is phase 1 with more to come?

[kenhughes]

Could it be something to do with this?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/316524-city-airport-manchester-aka-barton.html

[Code 100]

Singapore Airlines website states that A380's are being used on Beijing (Olympic) route at that time, and that some routes (LHR, Tokyo & Sydney) may revert to 747's or whatever was the previous type used on the route.

I will be pleased to see the A380 at MAN, but can SQ afford to send one during the run up to the Games?

Hopefully I am wrong!

[viscount702]

Noticed on OAG that FR are showing Wednesday and Friday flights to Dusseldorf NRN

Nothing that I can see on FR site

Viscount

[G-STAW]

talked to LH crew the other day, they confirmed LH are in talks to start MAN-JFK!!

ill try and get some more info asap....


G-STAW

[eggc]

DLH MAN-JFK...wow ! Fingers Crossed.

Can you imagine Heathrow Airways reaction should this happen !...and just wait till another few more Blue & Yellow 330's arrive serve other destinations and create a Northern UK hub in direct competition to BA :ok:

Mind you, BA wil probably just open up in Dussledorf etc in retaliation !

[Skipness One Echo]

Lufthansa will NOT fly MAN-JFK. Please get real.

[Ian Brooks]

Skipness
Please tell us why?

Ian

[mickyman]

G-STAW

Germans DO have a sense of humour too - you know!!

MM

[Higher Archie]

Runway 2 at MAN is hardly 'useless'. The two runways are used simultaneously, but in segregated mode. The current declared capacity is 61 movements an hour and with additions to the taxiway system and an additional crossing point will take this to 70+ movements an hour.

Both runways are 3,000m in length and an available starter extension on 23L.

Linking MAN and LPL is a non-starter as a single complex. Providing improved rail access from Merseyside to Greater Manchester, and then to the Airport would be a much better option. There's £3bn of Transport Innovation Fund money on offer from the Government. But this depends on a Congestion Charge, and this is another subject for discussion ....

[nef]

With the competition comission deciding on BAAs monopoly position in the next few months, maybe they could be planning a joint bid for LGW (and/or any other BAA airports that are required to be sold - maybe GLA and/or EDI).

[MAN777]

I think Lufthansa used to fly to the states via Manchester as did Sabena, many moons ago though.

Correct me if I am wrong

[BTNH]

Why should lufthansa not try to upset ba a little bid.:D
Lufthansa stated already they wont to expand there business at manchester. Time will tell us what is been going on???

[ETOPS]

I can't help thinking that the LH rumour has it's roots in the forthcoming BMI deal. Think about the marketing problems of LH aircraft and crews operating from MAN. Cue childish mutterings of "don't mention the war" etc etc. Too Germanic maybe? But use good old BMI (with a subtle update) and LH codeshare flight numbers and this could be their vehicle for Offene Himmel
.........

[RVF750]

As a regular user, I find Manchester's two runway system excllent. If only the terminaland handling was anywhere near as good......

[42psi]

I'd say nef has the nail on the head :D


MAPlc group has long wanted to look at itself as being the "expert" at providing airport management.

(I'm not claming they are ... just that it's long been their objective :rolleyes:)

It's consistently provided returns for it's shareholders.

To take full advantage of any break up of BAA will need more investment than MAPlc group are likely to be able to raise alone.


So wouldn't Peel Holdings fit the bill for an ideal partner .....? :suspect:

They provide the bulk of the funds, MAPlc provide the "expertise" and they agree on how to split the spoils.....

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes and KLM flew to New York from Prestwick but come on !!! Who really believes Lufthansa are going to build long haul routes from MAN when they don't even do it from Dusseldorf? If there's any truth in this "some pilot I know said" it'll be a BMI codeshare at most.

[RingwaySam]

Hasn't LH just started long-haul services from Dusseldorf with a few A343s...

Maybe LH will buy BD and transfer a few A330s over for expansion. I can't see LH operating though.

[pug]

Would that not only create in the north, what they are trying to break up in the south though?

Could this not be more likely what its all about?

Liverpool Airport has joined with other airports in the North of England to push the Government to rethink plans to hit the airline sector for £500m in extra taxes. Neil Pakey, the airport’s managing director, says Air Passenger Duty (APD) is already making it hard for UK regional airports like Liverpool to win new routes by adding to the cost of tickets.

Economy passengers pay £10 APD on low-cost flights to European destinations and £40 for long-haul flights after taxes doubled last year. However, the Government plans to replace APD, currently paid by individual passengers, with a new tax on planes from next November. The Government says that it expects to earn another £500m in taxes as a result.

Mr Pakey says airlines cut back on routes from the North as a result of the tax rise as Northern airports are more sensitive to higher costs. In April British Airways said it was ending its Manchester to New York route after 40 years, a move Mr Pakey says was down in part to increasing APD. He said: ‘BA pulling out of Manchester - New York after 40 years was a water-shed.'

Mr Pakey says UK taxes on aviation already make UK airports less attractive compared to the continent. He says Liverpool Airport and other hubs want to make clear to Government that any further tax rises will make the UK even less competitive. The airport plans to work with Manchester, Blackpool, Newcastle airports as well as sister airports Robin Hood Airport and Durham Tees Valley to campaign against the tax change.

[dada]

the answer would have been burtonwood.

[Railgun]

Why would they trasnsfer them over to MAN when they could just fly them from LHR and make more money in the process.

[Ringwayman]

2 or 3 years ago LH stated that 10% of their MAN pax flew long-haul business class. But I would imagine any potential long-haul from them would be more towards Asia, and not over the pond.

[BTNH]

We will see what LH might do with BD and what they do for routs and codeshares?

[OliWW]

Im most likely completely wrong, but Ive just seen that EVA Airways are to start flights from Taipei to Manchester, Most likely on a B777, dont know anymore, its all I read:ok:

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Hi oliww

Where did you read that?

Id heard they were looking into 2xweekly cargo flights, but not pax flights.

The only pax taipei flights were being mulled over by china airlines 3 years back, as they havent got the rights to serve LHR, but that was dropped in favour of keeping their 747 freighter run.

[Betablockeruk]

Evita is on at the Opera House. That's the closest we'll get to an "Eva"! :bored:

Already suffered Great Wall and Jett8 withdrawals and cut backs on the other Far East cargo services. Also, Jade keeps promising to turn up every month and has stood us up every time.

A predictable downturn in business (although some people suggest Chinese downturn only while authorities try to clean the air for the Olympics by shutting heavy industry down - drastic measure!)

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Haha beterblocker, that wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Great wall will increase again once economy picks up, which, no matter what anyone says, it will pick up again. Its just a matter of when.

Jade, It wont happen. They have a daily truck service from amstedam, and they are happy doing that at the moment. They say they are interested but thats as far as it goes-interest.

While we have china airlines on the route, eva airways will only stick to Heathrow, it is just not economicly viable at the present.

Cathay will re-increase schedules. They constantly say Manchester is their strongest performing cargo market. The offset of any decrease in cargo service may spur a pax service. If they cant fill a B744F with cargo, then they have said they will belly cargo some freight, and carry pax up on the main deck. I know you will all be tired with the constant rumours, but they are still interested in breinging the self loading freight types back to MAN too.

I work in the cargo industry now, and one service that has been steadily building is cargo to Japan, and I can tell you that JALcargo has sat up and paid attention to MAN on more than one occasion now. There have been more than a few BA shuttles from LHR that have had pure JAL cargo on board (aside from pax baggage of course), so maybe watch this space?
Just because it serves LHR already, doesnt mean that it wont come to MAN, look at CX. Also, why do you think MAN is the only domestic with a JAL codeshare on BA?

[MANFlyer]

I thought it was April 1st when I read that nonsense about LH starting MAN-JFK.....:rolleyes:

[Scottie Dog]

Maybe this is the answer to your rumour of LH starting a MAN-JFK route.

LH are operating a series of ad-hoc cargo flights between the UK and USA using Manchester - hence the World MD-11 in the other week.

I think this is far more likely than anything else.

Also my source tells me that, at the moment they know of now plans for Eva to commence a route to TPE.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

The Airbus A380, the world’s largest passenger aircraft, will land at Manchester Airport for the first time on Saturday as part of a series of flights around the North West.

The aircraft will perform a standard approach into Manchester Airport at 1.20pm above the runway before heading to Liverpool.

The aircraft is likely to draw crowds of people to the airport keen to catch a glimpse of the double decker plane.

Vantage points include the top levels of the Terminal 1 and Terminal 3 car parks as well as the Aviation Viewing Park, the airport said.

“The Airbus A380 has strong links with the North West as well as playing an important role in the future of the aviation industry,” said Andrew Cornish, the airport’s managing director.

[point5]

The aircraft will perform a standard approach into Manchester Airport at 1.20pm above the runway before heading to Liverpool.

So it won't land at Manchester for the first time then?

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

no it wont, thats an error in the article, its on crains business site, found through google news.

[Hen Ddraig]

I fail to see any reason why any airline would choose to operate a passenger service to Manchester. The place is a total shamples.
On Sunday a fully loaded 747-400 landed at 0708, taxied to a remote stand off terminal 2, five buses promptly arrived but due to "staff shortages" no stairs to enable the passengers to get to the buses. The last passengers left the aircraft a hour after landing. All the passengers were treated to a full tour of the flight line before eventually getting to the terminal to join the 35 minute queue for "border control" to examine passports. Having got through that on to baggage reclaim (it's now 1hr 45min since landing). The screens don't tell you which belt to pick up your baggage from! Why! Because it hasn't arrived yet! Eventually left the terminal 2hrs 5mins after touchdown.
The airport excuse "We have an unexpectedly high number of passenger arrivals" Absolute garbage, every flight has to file a flight plan and they know well in advance just how many flights and pax are arriving, the whole place smacks of poor management and lack of customer care.

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air

[tigermike]

2 new routes released today starting December

Daily to GVA starting 12th
3 x weekto SOF starting 11th

[mavml]

Looks to me like GVA is 9x weekly (Daily Mon-Fri, 2x Sat / Sun), all with GVA based a/c.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

GVA is 9x weekly. Press release now on easyjet homepage regarding MAN routes

[Momentary Lapse]

Don't forget Neil Pakey, and others at Peel, used to work at MAN so are well known to Muirhead et al.

They were the ones who had enough talent to leave and succeed somewhere else.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pakey's lot ended up in charge of the combined operation, when the dust settles.

[spannersatcx]

I fail to see any reason why any airline would choose to operate a passenger service to Manchester. The place is a total shamples.
On Sunday a fully loaded 747-400 landed at 0708, taxied to a remote stand off terminal 2, five buses promptly arrived but due to "staff shortages" no stairs to enable the passengers to get to the buses. The last passengers left the aircraft a hour after landing.

That is the choice of the operator not the airport, VS choose to go remote as it saves a few £'s, if the handling agent is not upto scratch then they the airline need to sort that out, not the airport.

[ACCMan]

I fail to see any reason why any airline would choose to operate a passenger service to Manchester. The place is a total shamples.
On Sunday a fully loaded 747-400 landed at 0708, taxied to a remote stand off terminal 2, five buses promptly arrived but due to "staff shortages" no stairs to enable the passengers to get to the buses. The last passengers left the aircraft a hour after landing. All the passengers were treated to a full tour of the flight line before eventually getting to the terminal to join the 35 minute queue for "border control" to examine passports. Having got through that on to baggage reclaim (it's now 1hr 45min since landing). The screens don't tell you which belt to pick up your baggage from! Why! Because it hasn't arrived yet! Eventually left the terminal 2hrs 5mins after touchdown.
The airport excuse "We have an unexpectedly high number of passenger arrivals" Absolute garbage, every flight has to file a flight plan and they know well in advance just how many flights and pax are arriving, the whole place smacks of poor management and lack of customer care.

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air


Hen Ddraig. Just shows what little you know.

VS076 arrived on stand four mins early at 0721. Parked, as a planned remote, on stand 219 (best B747 remote stand) where MA provided coaches were waiting. For your info there is an MA / AOC agreement operating in T2 for planned remote operations where all operators take equal share of off-pier turnarounds.

No steps. Provided by the Handling Agent contracted by the Airline; they have a choice.

Tour of the terminal. Coaches need to take a safe route to the drop off point at Gate 400 and avoid other aircraft turnarounds (fuel, staff, passengers etc). First rule of aviation - Safety!

Queue for Immigration. Service provided by UK Government .... not MA.

Wait for bags. Again provided by the handling agent contracted by Virgin.

Overall MA provided a managed operation with MA provided resources on-time. Unfortunately MA staff have too offern to 'carry the can' for airlines and Government's own failings. Suggest you send your comments to Messrs Branson and Brown on these issues.

Now stop MA bashing, get your facts right and learn some aviation!

[MANFlyer]

This A380 that's passing on Saturday. I presume it's doing a UK tour of some sort as Fairford claim one will be there on Saturday as well.

[Prestonian]

At this relatively late stage, any chance of a replacement for this winter on BmiBaby's dropped Madrid service?

[dh dragon]

I certainly remember LH flying L1049H Super Starliners(Super Connies) to ORD in the the early 60,s.Sabena used to operate with first,DC7C,s and then, B707,s BRU-MAN-JFK(Idlewild) however they often overflew MAN.I had 2 F class pax on the LAST service and it left them in MAN. As they used to say Such A Bloody Experience Never Again .I would welcome LH flight to JFK connecting on UA to Eastern seaboard destinations as a good alternative to BD/UA via ORD

[philbky]

dh dragon, you may remember certain things about those services but your facts are screwed.

Let's start with SABENA which pioneered trans Atlantic flights from Manchester on 28 October 1953 with DC-6B OO-CTH. This started as a weekly service via Gander. The odd trip was flown using a DC-6 with an extra stop at Shannon. SABENA, having increased flights to twice a week, made the first non-stop Manchester- Idlewild service on June 28 1954.

On November 3 1954 a third service was introduced using a DC-6A mixed passenger/freight main deck combi, OO-CTP. DC-7Cs started to appear on the service from December 1956.

April 20 1960 saw the start of B707 service on the route via Shannon and on June 14 1961 the first jet service, non stop to New York, was performed by SABENA and during the winter of 1961 the Shannon stop was regularly omitted (SN having no traffic rights at Shannon).

SABENA rarely missed a Manchester departure unlike BOAC who missed out Manchester on 29 out of their first 49 scheduled 707 flights due to "the poor runway".

The only restriction that stopped SABENA was the cross wind limit, which was reached two or three times a year.

On March 31 1964, SABENA lost its fifth freedom rights through Manchester after sustained pressure from BOAC.

The SABENA service had blossomed to a daily and very punctual schedule by 1962. BOAC, which introduced its own (3 times a week in winter and daily in summer) 707 service to Prestwick and New York, managed to reduce SABENA's rights to 3 flights a week in 1963 and these were reduced to an unsustainable twice a week from April 1 1964. SABENA decided against operating to the new limit and withdrew.

I have no recollection of the last service overflying Manchester - all the references I can find and my own memory say the flight operated as scheduled on March 30 and returned on March 31 and the service was replaced by a Manchester - Brussels Caravelle service on April 1 1964.

BOAC then started a daily Manchester - Prestwick - New York service in place of its previous schedule having followed on the coat tails of SABENA throughout the development of the New York service.

Lufthansa began service from Manchester on April 23 1956 with a route that started in Hamburg and called at
Dusseldorf, Manchester, Shannon, Montreal and terminated in Chicago. This was advertised in Manchester as the Manchester Mid-Westerner and was operated by L1049G Super Constellations, D-ALIN performing the first flight. It was this service and the appearance over Stockport of these aircraft which first started my, and many other Manchester and Stockport lads', interest in aviation.

The service, Manchester's first air link with Canada, operated twice weekly until the early winter.

On April 3 1959 Lufthansa started a New York service with L1049G Super Constellations on a weekly and then twice weekly basis. The brand new L1649A Starliners were used from mid May. The service was withdrawn in winter 1959 and, apart from a few L1049, L1649 and the odd jet fuel/weather/medical diversion over the years, those were the last Lufthansa trans Atlantic flights to/from Manchester.

[MidnightMoonlight]

WELL said accman!
MA needs to stop taking digs at things that arnt all there fault!

[wingeel]

That SABENA acronym's a new one on me. I can remember TWA - Try Walking Across - but I've forgotten the others. Can you can remember any others ?

With regards to any LH service making connections at JFK into the UA network - the connectional opportunities at JFK are very limited. United is not a major player at Kennedy. As far as I know, they only operate transcontinental (LAX and SFO) services and a regional route to IAD. I don't think there is even an ORD service. Of the transatlantic operators, it is Delta and American who have the biggest presence at JFK.

Still, like you, I would love to see LH make a go of it.

[philbky]

Wingeel, the SABENA acronym joke decode is as old as the hills - first heard it in 1957 or there abouts.

At the risk of hijacking the thread for a mo, here are some others:

BEA back every afternoon
BOAC better on a camel
SAS sexually attractive stewardesses
ALITALIA always late in takeoff, always late in arriving
TAROM tatty, ancient, Russian obsolete machinery
QANTAS queer Australians never travel alone sonny
GARUDA good airline (when) run under Dutch administration
NLM never lands (in) Maastricht


There are plenty more

[Suzeman]

This A380 that's passing on Saturday. I presume it's doing a UK tour of some sort as Fairford claim one will be there on Saturday as well.


Route is
Goodwood Festival of Speed - flypast
Fairford flypast or display - not sure which
MAN flypast
LPL flypast
Wirral Show display
Then to Farnborough

MAN at 1320

Suzeman

[SWBKCB]

"those were the last Lufthansa trans Atlantic flights to/from Manchester."

I know we are talking passenger services, but wasn't there a 707 pure freighter service into the '70s?

[philbky]

SWBKCB - no.

Transatlantic freight flights on a scheduled basis up until, let us say, 1975, were operated by SABENA, as mentioned, Swissair using DC-4s and then DC-6s, Airwork with DC-4 and later DC-6A and BOAC with DC-7F, CL-44-D-4 and B707.

Lufthansa used a variety of charted DC-4s, including Transport Flug's, between Manchester and Germany later replaced by B727s and B737s but no scheduled 707 freighters were ever flown either to the USA or Germany.

[eggc]

Can some tell PpRune the link to Manchester rumours takes you to the wrong page, everytime I open it I get the Aviation History Nostalgia forum...and somebody has posted on there EZY are starting MAN-GVA 9 weekly...how dare they - dont they know where the rumour forum is :}

[philbky]

eggc, if you look carefully at the top of this forum there is a banner which says:

Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

I can't see anything which states the topics about airports, routes and airline business are limited to the current time..

[eggc]

But your post is more suitable to Aviation History Nostalgia which does exactly what is says on the tin - discussion on Connies, DC7's, Wright flyers & routes from the 60's :ok:

[philbky]

The discussion is about SABENA, Lufthansa and other airline transAtlantic routes from/to Manchester, the types operating them are a sideline. As this is the MANCHESTER sub forum, unless the mods disagree - and so far they haven't, this IS the correct place.

[viscount702]

There are some more Baby flights on sale now. It doesn't look as though this is the final list. There is a suggestion that more flights are to come for all bases

Viscount

[Ringway67]

SWBKCB is correct. Lufthansa did operate a B707 cargo flight for a short period during the winter of 1971/72. It think it was on a Wednesday evening arriving around 2200.

[philbky]

I'd be interested in your source. I can't find anything in the official airport history or airport documentation at the time, any contemporary magazines, in my log books - I lived 6 miles out on the approach at the time - or any other source including my memory.

Had there been such a service it would have been of great interest and I would have been on the domestic pier to see the flight at least once as, in those days, the piers were open until 22.00, even in winter.

[MARK9263]

Lufthansa operated LH475 2 x weekly on Weds/Thurs commencing 19/04/1972. I cant confirm times at the moment but it was late evening.
From 7/11/1973 it became once weekly, still operating on a Wednesday but was discontinued in December.

[Ian Brooks]

Phil I can confirm the LH B707 as remember them starting and I noted them between May 1972 and October 1973 at least but those dates may vary as missed them quite often

I`m sure Suzeman will be able to fill us in more on it

Ian

[Ringway67]

I lived in Knutsford at the time and remember seeing it on approach to 06 a couple of times as I was walking back home from the railway station from evening classes.

[lurkio]

Yeah, I remember staying late and sneaking up the "domestic" pier (inside of course) to get a better look before the long bike ride home. Wednesdays about 10 pm ish if memory serves me correctly.

[MANFlyer]

Route is
Goodwood Festival of Speed - flypast
Fairford flypast or display - not sure which
MAN flypast
LPL flypast
Wirral Show display
Then to Farnborough

MAN at 1320

Cheers, Suzeman.

Looks like I'll see it at Fairford then. Although having seen it plenty of times at Changi now, and flown on it three times, the novelty is already wearing off. It's too quiet for me. :)

[philbky]

Thanks guys for the detail, especially Mark 9263 for the flight number.

There's a hole in the info I copied when working as a volunteer in the airport archive in the 1980s, there's no mention of it in the 1978 or reprint editions of First and Foremost and my logs show nothing at all!

That must count as the only long haul service out of Manchester I totally missed from 1956 to 1986.:{

Thanks again folks :ok:

[rampman]

i have travelled from manchester at least 6 times a year. and last week when i departed and this week when i arrived i have nothing but praise for manchester T1 for the first time. going through the new passport control was a breez. the staff were very helpfull and the new way to get through passport controll is like a breath of fresh air.

on arriving on monday morning during the bussy morning period it took me only 40 mins to get of the plane and into my taxi with my bags was this just pure luck or has manchester finaly got there act together.

:ok: rampman

[Betablockeruk]

Rampman, many more messages like that and we'll have to change to thread heading from Moanchester back to Manchester. :rolleyes:

(good to hear positive feedback)

[Hen Ddraig]

ACCMan are you totally a Manchester apologist?
I have a very deep knowledge of aviation, gained as a licensed pilot since 1958, with a very wide range of both military and civil operations worldwide. I have arrived at MAN four times this year as Pax with four different operators and each time the handling has been to say the least poor, best time to exit airport so far is 75 minutes.
I now try whenever possible to arrange my deadhead flights from/to Liverpool or Birmingham, both of whom seem to be able to process arrivals in about 30 minutes from touchdown, with the same aircraft operators.

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air

Old pilots don't die, then just pass on to a new plane

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

In all fairness hen drraig, accmans comments are valid. The gating/hard stands allocated to aircraft are down to what the airlines requests. VS always has a practice of gating one aircraft, and the second aircraft is put onto a hard stand.
Immigration speeds are all down to HM customs, not the airport. If customs want to spend longer examining documents, rather than just count the number of passports (yes, one time working in LHR, I had to escort a kuwaiti family through security as they were late. The guy at passport control just counted that there were 7 people, and 7 passports so he waived them through), then that is down to them.

I appriciate your comments about the speed you travel through BHX/LPL, but they are smaller airports in both size and pax numbers, which ever way you look at it. Quite frankly, Id be shocked if it took longer to travel through these airports than MAN.
Also, common sense would tell you if its 500m from gate to baggage in BHX for example, but 1000m from gate to baggage recliam im MAN, its obviously going to take you longer. Its not a matter of aircraft size or operator, but distance to travel and the amount of people getting off that plane, or getting off planes at adjoining gates.

I agree MAN could do better, but it is by no means as bad as you describe it.

Also, no matter how much experience you have, id defy you to find me 1 person that is an absaloute expert in all aspects of airport operations, I doubt even the managing director is aware of all things taking place at MAN.
Thats why I find it impossible for people to say that they know about passport control, as well as gates, as well as atc etc etc.

Anyway rant over

[philbky]

Hen Ddraig,

I've transited MAN twice in the last 6 months, both times from/to Ireland.

The Aer Lingus flight from CRK and the Ryanair flight from SNN both arrive at the oldest pier on the airport where there is no separation possible between incoming and outgoing pax so incoming pax are treated to the joys of a bus ride after walking down aircraft steps.

On the CRK arrival the time from on chocks to getting into my niece's car on level 11 of the car park was 17 minutes - inc picking up two bags, and that at 14.30 hours.

The Ryanair flight arrived at 10.30, a much busier time. Time from on chocks to arriving on the station platform - inc picking up two bags - 24 minutes.

The airport is going through major work - as it seemingly has been for over 30 years - and the demands of security, to keep you and me "safe" have put tremendous strains on the system and infrastructure. Having said that, using the new security route in T1 was effortless on the second day of operation.

I use LPL more often than MAN as Ryanair fares from SNN tend to be cheaper and the extra 25 minutes on the motorway is no problem for me.

Having been through LPL around 6 times in a similar time frame I've waited 20 minutes for bags to appear soaking wet due to a downpour, have been led in the rain to the baggage reclaim, only to be led out again as it was full with a preceding flight and had to stand in the rain for over five minutes. Outbound, the gate allocation for Ryanair can change at the last minute but far worse is the check in chaos for Ryanair flights where the lines are often longer than the space available.

On the other hand I've been off the aircraft and picking up the car hire keys within 20 minutes of getting on stand though the average time is around 30-35 minutes.

[chiglet]

Also, no matter how much experience you have, id defy you to find me 1 person that is an absaloute expert in all aspects of airport operations, I doubt even the managing director is aware of all things taking place at MAN.


But surely that is the MDs' job. To keep his "finger on the pulse" as it were? If he does not know about these little foibles, then he should be replaced by some one who does know just what is going on, and sort it out pdq.
watp,iktch

[ACCMan]

philbky

The old Pier B is segregated for arriving and departing passengers. The reason why you have been bussed when arriving from Ireland, is due to the Common Travel Agreement (CTA) between the UK and Irish governments, where as passengers do not need passports to travel between the two countries, but they do need to clear Customs.

The only way of doing this (at most large airports) is to bypass Immigration using a bus and deliver passenger direct into the baggage reclaim hall just before Customs. At least it saves the long walk!

This agreement could be canceled soon, so then you will arrive just the same as other international passengers ...... with your passport.


Hen Ddraig - Try getting a B747-400 direct from MCO to LPL or BHX ..... oh no you can't, the airports aren't big enough!

[Chica]

I transited Manchester T3 this week and was shocked at the unprofessionalism shown by the x-ray security staff. They were larking around, throwing the trays around, wizzing them over the top of the x-ray machines, generally acting the fool. One of them "accidentally" failed to catch a tray which fell and pressed the emergency stop button on the x-ray machine which her colleagues thought hillarious - not so the passengers in the queue who had to stand around and wait for the machine to re-set itself.

I'm all for enjoying your job but there is a time and place - and for security staff it isnt in front of passengers. I was expecting to get pulled up for a full tube of toothpaste in my hand luggage but it was missed - maybe they were just too busy "having a laugh".

[philbky]

Thanks ACCMan for trying to tell me something which I am fully aware of and which I have known for quite some time.

As for the need for passports, strangely that made the news in Ireland when it was announced.

[One Sixty until 4.]

To close this off before it risks censure for degenerating into a spotting thread - DLH 707Fs appeared at MAN in the late 1970s - 1978/79 along with German Cargo examples for a short lived service. I could be misremembering things but it might have been breaking a JFK-FRA sector. I never saw one myself as they operated very early in the morning(before the buses could get you there) although a schoolmate photographed one departing early due to Winter snow.

If I had kept my Starliner magazines, it might have yielded a firmer date.

[Manchester Kurt]

I am not involved in the aviation industry, and do not know anyone who is.

I am a typical airline passenger.

I use MAN about 14 times a year, for holidays and travelling away with United.

Honestly, everyone I know chooses which flights to use based on cost.

I have never ever had any of my friends ever mention security queues, baggage delays or anything when chosing a flight to book.

For what it's worth, two weeks ago I flew to Paris with my wife to Paris with FlyBe through T3.

Nothing special, but exactly what you would expect from an airport and a million times better than what we found in Paris CDG where there were massive queues at security, and the baggage handlers had gone on strike, refusing to put the bags from our plan onto the carrosel (spelling???).

Likewise, on the return jounrey, long queues everywhere in Paris, no queues whatsoever anywhere at MAN, straight through passport control, the bags were coming around by the time we got to baggage reclaim, out of the airport within 15mins of landing, and home to Sale 1.5hrs after being on a runway in Paris.

Wake up to the real world MAN bashers, cost is by far the primary driver for hte vast majority of purchases of flight tickets, only a very small number of people worry about queues at passport control and elsewhere.

MAN is a great asset for the city and the region, an asset that most other cities in the country would absolutely love to have on their doorstep.

[ACCMan]

Thanks ACCMan for trying to tell me something which I am fully aware of and which I have known for quite some time.

As for the need for passports, strangely that made the news in Ireland when it was announced.

philbky - So why the comment on your previous post that Pier B has no seperation for arriving and departing passengers when it does?

For info, both FR and EI choose to operate from Pier B. EI have been offered the better facilities from Pier C, but refused. FR want to be as close to the runway as possible and EI are just trying to keep up.

[jongeman]

My journeys through MAN have always been trouble-free too, and I agree that the overwhelming majority of people choose which flights to book on basis of cost. I travelled through T1 last month to and from MRS and there were no problems at all.

The only problem I can see with MAN is the same problem that we now see in every service industry in the UK........that of tendering and sub-contracting. Simply, if you put airport cleaning, baggage handling, or catering etc out to tender, and then accept the lowest possible bid, you get and probably deserve **** service. We see it all the time, from the country's airports, to local bus services which never turn up, to the postal service, which is fast disappearing too.

I've been through MAN before and been so embarrassed (as a Mancunian) by the stench in the bogs that I've wanted to go back and clean the ******* things myself!!!

[OltonPete]

Another site reporting 2% down, quoting MEN but I could not find
the article.

I suppose this was expected with IT consolidation?

Pete

[eggc]

the oldest pier on the airport where there is no separation possible between incoming and outgoing pax

:D:D :rolleyes:

[MARK9263]

The German Cargo examples visited 5 times,mainly on our LH4072 flght between 7/1/1979 & 17/1/1979 and were purely due to the lorry drivers strike at the time. It just so happened we had a real winter at the same time also....!

[Suzeman]

Olton Pete

This may be where you saw it - on UK Airport News. I can't find it on the MEN site either. The June Stats are not yet on the MA website

UK Airport News 07.07.08
Manchester Airport suffered a drop in passenger numbers of 2.82 percent in June compared to a year earlier, the Manchester Evening News reports. A total of 2.12m travellers passed through the terminals last month, compared with 2.8m in June 2007.
Domestic services saw a 6.67 percent fall, largely due to stiffer rail competition to and from London. Charter traffic fell 5.2 percent as tour operators reduced their capacity following mergers.

I think someone has screwed up because the percentages and figures don't tie up. I can't be a*sed to get the calculator out, but 3% down on 2.8 million is 84,000 down not 680,000...that's nearer 25%. Maybe the article was pulled as it was inaccurate - a major surprise for the MEN........:}

Whilst we are speaking of the MEN, here's another one from today, thanks to Dean Kirkby, their man at the Airport.

"PLANE-spotters will be flocking to Manchester Airport this weekend to see the world's largest passenger plane touch down.

The Airbus A380 will fly low over the runways at about 1.20pm on Saturday as part of its first official tour of the north west".

Touchdown or flyby - that is the question? (Actually will be a flyby). But never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Suzeman

[G-STAW]

ok this is almost confirmed out of the office today....

A380 WILL perform flypast at 13.20pm

THEN it WILL perform a touch and go...

btw SQ A380 visit is off....

G-STAW

[WincoDinco]

THEN it WILL perform a touch and go...


Where DO these crazy rumours come from??? :ugh::-D



btw SQ A380 visit is off....



....it was never "on". :ugh:

[G-STAW]

Where DO these crazy rumours come from??? :ugh::-D



1. confirmed from apron control
2. confirmed form MAN managmant

i agree, things could all change...



....it was never "on". :ugh:



probably poorly phrased, just want to end the speculation.....

again confrimed from apron control.


G-STAW

[Loxley]

How long have US Airways been flying from Manchester to Raleigh/Durham? Is it just seasonal? And do they still operate the MAnchester-Philly service?

[Mr A Tis]

Simple - they don't.
PHL is the only route, however like the other US carriers, sometimes they show a "through" service onto another destination & this varies from time to time. Even when a "through" service is shown, it is always a plane change anyway.
Whatever is shown it is always : AA =ORD, US = PHL, DL = JFK, ATL, CO =EWR.
Forget anything else.

[Loxley]

Oh right. It's just on the MAnchester arrivals and departures board today it shows US734 arriving from Raleigh/Durham then US735 departing to Raleigh/Durham.

[MANFlyer]

Where DO these crazy rumours come from??? :-D

Dunno mate, but along with the LH to JFK there's been no shortage of them recently...

As for the 'It's awful (by some Pax) / Oh no it ain't (by other Pax and those that work there ;))' debate...

I average about 120-150 flights a year, and with MAN being my local aerodrome I get to see it enough times in all it's glory to be able to form an opinion. As far as I am concerned, it's very hit and miss.

Those who say it's always a nightmare/disaster/horrible are exaggerating somewhat. By the same token those that instantly jump on any criticism and go on the defensive either have their heads in the sand, are living in denial or do not have to transit the place enough to be able to form an opinion.

That it is 'not the airport it was' is undeniable. It used to be a fabulous place to depart from and arrive into. It ain't any more, that's a fact. Having said that, with the exception of LCY (and that now has it's moments) I don't think there is an airport in the UK of any size that can be described as great to use. This is more of an indication of the shambolic infrastructure of this embarassment of a country we live in as much as anything else.

The only way to try and make it as easy as possible is to try and remove anything that can make it a PITA. Inbound that's easy-ish for me; IRIS (when it's working) and hand luggage only. I also try and avoid SQ328 from Changi on a Thursday as Friday is SQ's remote gate day. That's done it for me.

Outbound is not as easy, but, I have to say departing to LHR on BD, which I have been doing a fair bit this year to connect, has got much better since the new security area to the right of the BD check-in desks at T3 opened. In fact I haven't seen more than three or four people going through there at the same time I have, so far. I am fortunate that outbound from T1 and T2 I usually have Fast Track access and I very rarely fly LCC's or bucket and spade flights.

The rest of the airport is definitely unpleasant in places. The missus will try and avoid having to use the toilets in arrivals anywhere in the airport, especially T1, as she says they are disgusting. I have also accepted that the eleventh commandment decrees that MAN is not allowed to have all it's escalators/travellators working at any one time, and is probably restricted to half at most.

It's still better than LHR though, for now.....;)

[Betablockeruk]

Also, on a regular basis:

DL65 Las Vegas
DL155 Los Angeles

[jongeman]

This is more of an indication of the shambolic infrastructure of this embarassment of a country we live in as much as anything else.

Indeed. It occurred to me that the best thing that any MAN detractor could do (which includes me from time to time) is to get onto the MAN consultative committee, or rather whichever of your local councillors sits on it.

(Edit - if you ever read their minutes, you see that they do talk about what people complain about, but usually in a very British way i.e. well after the horse has bolted!)

[G-STAW]

Also, on a regular basis:

DL65 Las Vegas
DL155 Los Angeles



yep, thats been the case every day at least once a week for the last month, confuses some people at work....

G-STAW

[mantug01]

Just to hopefully end some confusion: This from the airport press office

A380’s appearances in the North West are scheduled to take place consecutively between 1pm and 2pm on the day. They comprise a ‘flypast’ (an ‘approach and go-around’) at both Manchester and Liverpool airports

Hopefully the weather will be ok.

[G-STAW]

i hope its not like today, been off and on all day.....

[Vuelo]

WW to discontinue MAD and LIS over the winter, but continue BCN apparently. Shame.

[bigg G]

Also noted pulling there winter service is ryanair down the road at Liverpool.
Could there be a new carrier awaiting to return on a daily basis ie Iberia??????
Anybody got inside info??????

[togaroo]

Please MANCHESTER Airport Authority, fix the leaks in the many places about the airport, the buckets are not a fix and they are a hazard as well as unprofessional, or is it more important to sell duty free than actually provide passengers with a relaxed, safe and clean environment. Its not as if it only rains once in a while in Manchester. The new duty free in T1 is a disgrace, if your shoes are wet then walking on the shiny tiles is very slippery and there is no path to circumvent going through the crowds of shoppers mulling around in duty free - some of us just want to get on a flight and go :( If Heathrow needs sorting out Manchester isnt far behind on passenger comfort. Surely Airport managers have been to Singapore and can appreciate how a real airport is run!

[Vuelo]

IB's return would be great, but they would need an early departure in order to make full use of transfer traffic through MAD. Anything leaving MAN later than 0630 would be useless. A nightstop would be required.

[viscount702]

Does anyone know for certain that they are dropping MAD and LIS for winter

The website is unclear as to whether all winter flights are on sale.

One part says all flights on sale whereas another says look out for further flights.

Also looking at the situation for MAN there are at lot of gaps in the timetable which could be filled with more flights

Viscount

[BTNH]

What will United Airlines do when they join star alliance?(codeshare with LH)

[pwalhx]

United join the Star Alliance? They have been members for some considerable time.

[Mr A Tis]

United joined Star Alliance in May 1997:ugh:

[Ian Brooks]

A380 just past over my house on approach to MAN and now on way to LPL


Ian

[eggc]

Funnily enough the A380 was number 2 to an Air China Cargo B744F - just to make comparison a bit easier !

[mantug01]

Looks like it gave quite a show at Wirral

openATC Google Earth - A380 trip to NorthWest (http://www.openatc.com/trackflightge.asp?tripid=1757638)

[G-STAW]

yep, cheers to the flight crew for putting on a great show at MAN, every1 turned out in force to see this beauty!amazing.

Thankyou to everyone who made this possible....


G-STAW

[PAXboy]

A simple Terminal question.

My mother needs to transit at MAN in September with some 2.75 hours between scheduled FlyBe arrival and departure. Which terminal do they use? It looks as if I will not be able to escort and so want to get her to use one of the lounges and hope that they do a Pay-Per-Visit??

Also, since she will be using the wheelchair (she is 82) might that be a problem? I presume that one wheelchair operative can deliver her to the lounge and then another come to collect her?

Many thanks.

[Higher Archie]

Saw the 'beast' A380 at MAN today. A tight approach with gear down and a late go-round, fly-past and a wiggle of the wings on the climb-out.

Some things struck me; the aircraft is huge, especially when compared with the Air China 744 that landed ahead; the aircraft is incredibly ugly; but so very very quiet.

Look forward to the EK ops in 2010, assuming the Pier C work is completed in time.

[mickyman]

Higher Archie

I think the 'wiggle' was a nod of reverence to the Iconic
Concorde parked at the AVP.

MM

[racasanman]

Paxboy ,flybe use T3.Don't know about the lounges but I believe OCS do the wheelchairs.

[BTNH]

Sorry!!!!! i meant Continental Airlines! (do i need glasses??) or just stupid???:ok:
I liked the a 380! It looks a handy plane to fly???

[jojo82]

flybe use T3 and wheelchair assitance can be requested at checkin and the wheelchair company will take her to her aircraft. Unfortunalty you can not pay to go into the flybe lounge on the day. The lounge is open to frequant flyer members and economy plus passengers. (W class) Both flybe and BA lounges are accesible by stairs and a lift so no problems to the less mobile passenger.

[PAXboy]

Thanks racasanman. Info on the AMN website is:
The Flybe lounge is located in the departure lounge via stairs or lifts. Eligible passengers are;

Economy Plus
Frequent Flyer "Rewards for All" scheme Children are allowed but must be escorted by qualifying parentsSince she is leaving the IOM, she has not joined Rewards scheme. I would have suggested that she pay for Economy Plus - to get the lounge - but the difference in cost is £3.89 and £135.89 and she will not want the flexible booking option.

So ... is it possible for her to get through to T2 and the Escape Lounge? They charge £20 per visit and that would be fine. Would FlyBe play ball with this and get the OCS people to trundle her through? Do FlyBe need to know? She just tells them where to take her? Providing there is easy wheelchari access from T3 to T2?

Thanks again.

[chiglet]

Get in touch with the Airline, and explain the above. The [just] might take her to T2 "airside", 'cos it's a real pain travelling from T3 to T2.
watp,iktch

[Mr A Tis]

The T2 lounge is a dump. I have a lounge pass, but never use the MAN lounges as they are just awful.
T1 isn't much better.
She'd be better off staying in the main T3 departure area, IMHO

[lexxity]

So ... is it possible for her to get through to T2 and the Escape Lounge? They charge £20 per visit and that would be fine. Would FlyBe play ball with this and get the OCS people to trundle her through? Do FlyBe need to know? She just tells them where to take her? Providing there is easy wheelchari access from T3 to T2?

Are you serious? No airline would play ball with this because you can only use the terminal that you are flying from. OCS would not be willing to take her to and from I'm afraid. T3 is actually the other end of teh airport to T3, but the point remains, you use the terminal you are flying from.

[PAXboy]

Thanks folks, very helpful to learn that the terminals are that far apart and not viable. Hopefully, I can make the trip with her but at least I now know the odds.

Cheers.
(On the very rare occasions I go through MAN, I wonder what my late father would say about the place. He worked there for AVROS between (about) 1948 to 1959, he was in Personnel.

[lexxity]

He wouldn't recognise the place. Even those of us who work there find ourselves amazed at the changes taking place, especially the last year or so.

[jojo82]

is it possible for her to get through to T2 and the Escape Lounge? They charge £20 per visit and that would be fine. Would FlyBe play ball with this and get the OCS people to trundle her through? Do FlyBe need to know? She just tells them where to take her? Providing there is easy wheelchari access from T3 to T2?


Ermm -No!

To get to T2 for the Escape Lounge you need to be travelling out on an airline from T2. Passengers can not go into which ever departure lounge they choose! Now if the passenger was transfering through MAN to an airline in a different terminal, OCS (wheelchair company) will take the passenger to which ever terminal their next flight is going out of.
T3 doesnt have the facilities of T1 and T2 were you can pay for the lounge, the only advantage the lounges in T3 have is cracking views of the runway :-)

[MUFC_fan]

If IB were to launch from MAN again (unlikely), then I would assume it would be an over night aircraft which would be able to connect with South American flights and then return in the evening.

[Scottie Dog]

CAA figures released today give the following movement/passenger numbers for June 2008

Movements - 18134 - down 5.5%
Rolling Annual Movements - 201970 - down 3.9%
Terminal Passengers - 2125435 - down 2.8%
Rolling Terminal Passengers - 21870844 - down 0.5%

Stansted figures for a comparison

Movements - 16034 - down 6.2%
Rolling Annual Movements - down 2.7%
Terminal Passengers - 2079712 - down 5.7%
Rolling Terminal Passenger - 2327756 - down 2%

[roverman]

I visited one of MAN's new upstart competitor's yesterday, one which has set out to rob the rich (MAN) to give to the poor. Yes, Robin Hood Doncaster/Sheffield International was a picture of tranquility yesterday at around 1700 hours. The 2893 metre runway and impressive parallel taxiway shimmered in the late afternoon sunshine, with no traffic on it. The new wavy roof terminal building set a pleasant and welcoming profile alongside the refurbished 1930s RAF Expansion Period hangars. It was a shame there were not more people around to appreciate it. I drove along the new dual-lane access road, which had no traffic on it. I gazed over the apron, which had no traffic on it. Just one bizjet and no public transport aircraft in sight. I waited for about 15 minutes. I heard several pins drop, but the air remained undisturbed by turbine engines. On my way out, to be helpful to the people of South Yorkshire, I reversed a road sign showing an 'Airport (aircraft silhouette) symbol. I turned it to point West, added the word 'Manchester' before the symbol, with the suffix '38 miles'. The idea seemed to be catching as I glanced up to see, overhead at about 7000 feet, an Emirates B777 was already descending on its way west.

[Higher Archie]

A mighty fine post roverman.

Finningley may have a long runway, but nothing like the catchment area of MAN. I recall at the Public Inquiry into the airport development that the proponents of the airport were suggesting that as several of the Pilgrim Fathers travelled to America from the local area, their descendents would flock back to their roots in Doncaster. It hasn't happened, and it never will do via Finningley.

Yorkshire needs more air routes, but has too many airports. Airlines in these cash-strapped times will choose LBA or MAN to serve the region, certainly for long-haul.

[TURIN]

Why would a certain Middle Eastern airline want to alter it's MAN daily service from A330 to B777? Now of all times!

Seems odd to me.

Cargo perhaps?:uhoh:

[Vuelo]

If you are referring to EY, because they are doing amazingly well!

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

when does this upgrade take place on EY?
Is it confirmed?

[GavinC]

I've flown on EK and EY on several occasions and both are busy. It was only a matter of time for EY to upgrade equipment its load factors must be good, there is hardly ever a spare seat when i travel.

Abu dhabi desperately needs more terminal capacity though. the place is constantly rammed. Makes you dream that you were back in the MCR Bar in T1.

[roverman]

Virgin cc and TURIN :

Perhaps you are not aware but Emirates service to Manchester has been a twice-daily B777-300 for at least two years now. A third, morning service is a possibility next year, and from 2010 they will introduce the 2-class 644-seat A380 on DXB-MAN, subject to deliveries from Airbus.

[Ian Brooks]

EY is Etihad not EK Emirates

Ian

[Betablockeruk]

Su 0215 0610 EY15 332 26OCT08- 12JUN09
Mo We Fr Su 0215 0710 EY15 332 12JUL08- 24OCT08
Tu Th Sa 1350 1845 EY21 332 11JUL08- 12JUN09


Looks like a reduction to me. 4 a week for winter 08/09

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

im very aware emirates has been 2xdaily B777-300 for a few years now.
I was referring to EY upgrading from a daily A332 to a daily B773.
EY= etihad
EK=emirates

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Su 0215 0610 EY15 332 26OCT08- 12JUN09

Mo We Fr Su 0215 0710 EY15 332 12JUL08- 24OCT08

These are 4 days run on the morning schedule

Tu Th Sa 1350 1845 EY21 332 11JUL08- 12JUN09

then 3 days in the evening. Its still daily but still on an A330-200.

[Betablockeruk]

Whether this a timetable type or not, EY15 drops down to weekly from 26/10/08.

Now my head hurts :confused:

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

amadeus still has ey15/16 as 4x weekly throughout that period, and ey21/22 as 3x weekly

[Vuelo]

I can confirm that EY are not planning any downgrade in service this winter, just some timing changes. They are booming out of MAN.

[FlyZB]

Have QR loads picked up again since they re-timed their services? Pax numbers were dwindling a bit earlier in the year.

[OltonPete]

FlyZb

In a word - no!

However (well it can't be explained in one word) June is traditionally
the low season for most going East. The figure was 10569 down
quite a bit and less than 180 a flight if it operates daily.

Mind you even EK was down in June but still 298 a flight (about 70% full). EY however up to 11624 from 8695 but still below 200 a flight based on a daily service.

However all that will be forgotten no doubt for the next several months as pax figures climb.

Pete

[AircraftOperations]

Who did Manchester United charter to fly down to South Africa on Thursday? Was there an unusual airline or fancy VIP jet to take them?

[zfw]

Shuttle to Thiefrow.....................

[Hamburg 2K8]

Hi All,

First of all I would like to say hi to everyone, I have been following the comments made regarding MAN and as a frequent flyer through the airport I for one can't wait until the all the works in T1 are complete. I travel at least three times a month through this terminal to catch my flight to Hamburg sometimes with Lufthansa or others with Air Berlin. I work on the A380 project in Hamburg for Airbus UK. The new security area I think is great along with the new machines where you place your boarding card, very modern and efficent. I think Pier C needs re-building personally, doesn't look to bad now with the new carpet and seats, but from the outside at Gates 2 through to 10, it looks terrible, with loads dirty and VERY OLD windows! I am really fond of the airport, I've always flown from there wherever I have gone in the world and I'm proud to call it my local airport.

Anyone know when all of T1 will be complete and how is T2 coming along? I haven't flown from there since September 2003 and then they had purple carpets at the gate areas and much more seating than the gates at T1, has much changed there at all?

I have a question though, I went to book an Air Berlin flight for November earlier and notice there are no flights listed on their website after 31st October, does this mean that they are stopping their service to Manchester from the end of October? Their flights are normally 70% + full both ways, I thought they might cut the service down, but not stop it fully?!

I await your comments.

Regards,

Mat.

[TURIN]

And the prize goes to....

FlyZB.

The rest went on a right wild goose chase after EK and EY. Why does QR have such a low profile I wonder. :hmm:

[aeulad]

Apologies if this has already been posted. Swiss to upgrade ZRH to 3 daily
A319.

Regards

Mike

[Vuelo]

Zurich is already 3x daily!

[Mr A Tis]

Veulo

You missed the point , SWR ZRH Upgrade = A319 instead of FK100

Hamburg 2k8

AB Paderborn is bookable thro to March 2009, which seems to imply AB are not leaving Manchester.
I have asked AB re Hamburg from OCT- they said yes, it will become bookable from early July (?) , but like you rightly say, it still isn't.
They did the same last year, leaving it to the last minute for some reason. therefore they are losing bookings, as I have now booked with LH for a December trip.

[jubilee]

Ref Swiss Zur Flights.

Helvetic, who operate the flight for Swiss,are changing the way they operate.
See the press release dated 27 June.
Regards
Jubilee

[Suzeman]

Anyone heard any stories about this?

Suzeman

[Cargocat]

Understand the airport have been informed they are pulling out.
They were until very recently negotiating having a dedicated cargo handling facility built.

sources: Various incl MAPLC

[spacedog]

Man Utd flew out of the brand new Terminal 5 on Thursday evening.

[mikeyuk]

Terminal 5 at Manchester. Good one Spacedog :ugh:

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Mikeyuk,

Post 2941 (by zfw) on this thread (about 10 posts back) indicates that Man Utd flew via London Heathrow en route to South Africa, so it is not unreasonable for Spacedog to comment that they transited Terminal 5 without elaborating further. No need to have a go, I would suggest.

Cheers, SHED.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Whats all this aboout QR changing to a B777? I know the morning flights state 'equipment varies', but that variation is between the A330-200 and the A330-300?

Can Anyone confirm if either EY or QR are changing to a B777?

[Rampmole]

N767MW Anyone know the reason why this luxery liner been in Man a couple of times this week, i believe its the team bus for the dallas mavericks.

[Ringwayman]

Might be something to do with the golf at Birkdale?

[1station]

Ringwayman

Indeed, it took the USA PGA tour golfers back home on Sunday night, a joint Flight Support - Ocean Sky production I believe.

[MANFlyer]

Arrived in T1 on LH yesterday and saw a bank of new gadgets on the right hand side at immigration. Asked what they were and was told they were facial recognition machines.

Now, apologies if this has been posted about before but what are these all about, and how does one sign up to use them ?. I asked when they were coming into operation and was told 'who knows, the union hasn't agreed to use them yet'.....:rolleyes:

[Vuelo]

I think that's a bit personal, a machine which can tell if you regularly have beauty treatments, or are a porn star.

[STATSMAN]

You will able to use them if you have the new style (chip) passports.

STATSMAN

[Vuelo]

I love facials, of all kinds.

[busz]

Thats a bit risque Vuelo......:E

[lfc84]

A question for MAN people...

I arrive into T3 (flybe) and depart from T3 (flybe) a couple of hours later.

The flights are on the same record locator (it's one through ticket to the final desination). I have just got hand luggage.

Can I transfer airside or do I have to go to return to landside and then go back to airside through security ?

Cheers

[mansp]

You can transfer airside, if you dont have a boarding card for your onward flight (they should issue you with one) you can collect one airside.

[lfc84]

Great, thanks for the info. :ok:

(I did have a look on the MAN airport website, but couldn't find any info)

:)

[Hamburg 2K8]

Can anyone please confirm if Air Berlin are cancelling their flights from Paderborn and Hamburg to Manchester after October 2008?

Someone from my work (Airbus) informed me that they are and you still can't seem to book a flight after this month?

Mat.

[mickyman]

Hamburg 2K8

If you look on the AB website you will be able to book
Paderborn but not yet Hamburg.

MM

[Hamburg 2K8]

Anyone know of a possible reason for not being able to book Hamburg flights yet?

I have not heared any rumors on any forums regarding the cancellation of their flight to Manchester, I really hope it doesn't happen.

Regards,

Mat.

[Ian Brooks]

They are always very late releasing the flights

Ian

[FFHKG]

Interesting reports today in Malaysian press which quote Air AsiaX CEO as declining to comment on the fact that Air Asia X will NOT start any services to the UK, either London or Manchester, this year. Still only operating with one A330 and its seems that the immediate concern is to increase flights to destinations where Malaysian tourists wish to go -- plans for flights to Japan have almost been shelved as the visa requirements for Malaysians to fly there are onerous. Talk of looking at other Asian destinations more welcoming to Malaysian tourists.

[viscount702]

Having been shown for sometime now on OAG NRN is now showing in the FR on line check in section

Viscount

[BHX5DME]

Is also showing ex BHX.

The on-line check in engine is always a good heads up for a new route.

BHX5DME

[Vuelo]

Interesting reports today in Malaysian press which quote Air AsiaX CEO as declining to comment on the fact that Air Asia X will NOT start any services to the UK, either London or Manchester, this year. Still only operating with one A330 and its seems that the immediate concern is to increase flights to destinations where Malaysian tourists wish to go -- plans for flights to Japan have almost been shelved as the visa requirements for Malaysians to fly there are onerous. Talk of looking at other Asian destinations more welcoming to Malaysian tourists.

Perhaps Air Asia are waiting to see whether the UK government ever put a visa requirement on Malaysians tourists coming to the UK. That's what killed off the Air Jamaica flights into Manchester, remember; without the tourist trade the airline's business floundered.

[andy mach 1]

Flight times for the new Manchester to Weeze

Sun,Mon,Wed,Fri arr MAN 1900 FR2182 dep MAN 1925 FR2183
Tue,Thu,Sat arr MAN 2030 FR2182 dep MAN 2055 FR2183

Andrew

[Mr A Tis]

Had it confirmed today direct from Air Berlin.
MAN-HAM is discontinued after Oct 31st - another one bites the dust :-(

[MUFC_fan]

I would expect LH to upgrade and FR have launched today so no worries!

[Mr A Tis]

I doubt there will be any Lufty upgrade, as their timetable is already loaded for the winter. 2 x CRJ Mon-Fri & one Sat & One Sun.

FR to Weeze ain't much use if you want to go to Hamburg !!

[MUFC_fan]

LH may upgrade to a CR9 instead of the CR2.

I meant that is wouldn't make much difference to MAN numbers as FR have announced a daily 189 seater flight to Germany aswell. There is still a link to HAM from MAN and I am sure the demand left by AB will be picked up by LH and BD.

[MUFC_fan]

Is there a reason why Amadeus has registered EK17/18 as a Boeing 767-300ER during September?

I'm guessing that this is a mistake?

Cheers.

[jubilee]

Ryan Air service to Bremen from Man, which is roundabout 60 mins. train time from Hamburg.
regards
Jubilee

[Mr A Tis]

I'm afraid I'd rather travel via LHR than travel with Ryanair.:(

[MUFC_fan]

So would I.

BA and T5 now work like a dream.

[Hamburg 2K8]

Thanks for the confirmation Mr A Tis. Apart from the what we know about the high oil prices etc, do we know why else AB are stopping the route. Whenever I have used it, it has always been busy both ways and the Paderborn route always seems quieter yet they are continuing and they use a 737-800 on that route, the Hamburg route usually is a A319 or sometimes a A320. I just hope they re-start them next summer.

I will be using Lufthansa in future, they used to use a CR700 on the evening flights and have always used a CRJ200 for the morning flights, but every since last year they are using the CRJ200 for both flights, I much prefer to 700 so I hope we get that back this winter.

I don't fancy flying Ryanair to Bremen and spending an hour on the train. It's a good job Airbus are paying for my flights!

Regards,

Mat.

[jubilee]

Well I am using the Bremen service,but then again I am staying in Bremen.
First flight after all these years on Ryan Air.
Regards
Jubilee.

[Suzeman]

From UK Airport News


30.07.08

Profits are up for Manchester Airports Group - owners of East Midlands, Bournemouth, Humberside and Manchester Airport- after two bad years. The group - the UK's second largest airport owner - has reported a 16.4% rise in profits from £82.9m to £96.5m.
In 2006 and 2007, earnings were hit by a combination of passengers switching to faster trains (especially on routes to the capital), soaring security bills and low-cost flights using other local airports, most notably Liverpool.

However, after a costs squeeze and better returns from its shops and car parks, the airport has seen profits rise again. Group revenues in the year to 31 March rose from £385.5m to £395.7m as the strong retail and car parks performance offset lower income from airlines. Income at Manchester Airport rose 3.2% to £286.5m. Stripping out one-off items, group operating profits surged 20% from £75m to £90.5m. At the pre-tax level they rose 8.5% from £80.9m to £87.8m.

Passenger numbers across the group saw a 2% rise from 28.6 million to 29.2 million, boosted by strong performances at East Midlands and Bournemouth. Passengers fell by 200,000 (0.9%) at Manchester to 22 million, as pressures in the domestic market and consolidation among charter airlines wiped out strong growth on long-haul scheduled routes.

Chief executive Geoff Muirhead hailed an ‘excellent year’ and said the group was in good shape to withstand turbulent times ahead. He said: ‘I look forward with some degree of optimism for the business. We have made real progress in the past year, which reflects the hard work that has gone on in recent years.' But he said the consumer-spending-slowdown and credit squeeze were expected to leave passenger numbers and group profits flat this year.

The group is paying a dividend of £26m to its shareholders, the 10 local authorities of Greater Manchester. It represents a rise of £1m and is the first increase since 2005.


So I guess it's trebles all round......:hmm:

Suzeman

[airhumberside]

When will the annual report be available?

[Ametyst1]

British Airways are reducing frequency on the Manchester to Heathrow service from the winter timetable. Weekday frequency goes from 9 to 8 a day, Saturday from 6 to 4 a day, and Sunday from 5 to 4 a day. A cot of 8 return flights a week. Gatwick services appear to be unchanged.

[comet 4b623PW]

I read in the Daily Telegraph that Paul Charles, A Virgin spokesman is quoted as saying "We don't recognise the dismal performance experienced by BA during the first quarter. It is actually BA's waning popularity that is partly responsible for the actual sharp drop in profits."

I personally feel that many people in the regions out side the south east would agree with this statement.

It seems BA intends to withdraw another MAN-LHR flight, down to just 8 flights a day on week days. Given that LHR caters for a lot of business passengers I find it surprising that it did not decide to withdraw a LGW rotation instead.

To me this decision to withdraw the LHR flight seems at odds with BA's desire to try and feed as many passengers as possible through it's new terminal 5, even in today's environment of economic slowdown, and from December increased competition from the railways which will offer up to 3 services a hour.

Surely all this is going to do is push more of the north west buisness passengers to use other airlines and their respective hubs ,which further under mines T5 and BA.

[Euroboy39]

8 flights per weekday is still more than enough to provide Manchester businessmen with a strong service! Nobody is going to change airlines over the drop of this single daily rotation. In LHR terms, this slot could be used for more high yielding routes, which has got to be appealing to BA.

[Momentary Lapse]

Well done Geoff and the team.

Give that man a knighthood.

:eek:

[The96er]

Flight BA2912 inbound and BA2913 outbound to Gatwick has also been dropped for the time being.

[Higher Archie]

I think that BA in the UK Regions have now completely lost the plot. Travellers to London now use the train, because it's less hassle and faster.
For international connections, there's more attactive options through FRA, DXB etc. rather than through T5
This is better for MAN and the development of its long-haul network.

Momentary Lapse; Gil Thompson was BA through and through, anything they wanted, they got. But what did they really give to MAN? (nothing) BA with Willie have now retreated to LHR. The pax flying from MAN and many regional airports, prefer to avoid 'the world's favourite airline' and travelling through LHR. Sorry Momentary Lapse, but the airline and airport business has moved on from how it was in the 80's.

[Ringwayman]

We're given the reason that BA needs the regional feed to make the LHR routes viable, so by cutting down 1 flight a day means less feed equals more unviable LHR routes equals less profits? If 75% of passengers going to LHR/LGW are connecting, where will a lessening in frequency take that number?

[Railgun]

Lets be honst, the routes have been cut and will never come back and for the foreseeable future no airline will be taking up the slots into man as most airlines are making cut backs, ba this week, bmi next, then virgin....

[TSR2]

I don't follow your reasoning.

Surely, any passengers that may be affected by the 'one less flight' will just travel to LHR on an earlier flight.

[EC-ILS]

I agree with TSR2 one less grequency on a day with 9 daily flights and with competition from BMI will have little or no effect on other LHR routes.

I bet the dropped flight isnt during the busy early/late long haul departure banks?

[mickyman]

Do BA's shuttles all operate full..........news to me!

Surely removing one rotation is just taking up the
slack over the winter.

MM

[BTNH]

There was a little problem today (2/8) with a PIA flight.
The flight was already 40 min late before he was told bye MAN delivery to hold due to "they put the wrong cargo an the flight".:}
Flight left at 17:30 ish.
Who got told off for this????

[Momentary Lapse]

Higher Archie. Eh? What did I say about BA? Nowt. Or Sir Gil? Nowt.

Please explain. I'm confused.

[Mr A Tis]

To be honest who cares whether BA run any shuttles, let alone drop one? There are plenty of better options for the majority.

Bermuda
Its well documentated on here that MA can't get a lift or escaltor to work on two consecutive days. Its all about fleecing the punters for as much as possible, rather than comfort & efficiency.

[nick b]

Does anybody know if Baby are to operate to LIS this Winter, or is the route Summer only?

Many Thanks

[Vuelo]

MAD and LIS are axed certainly for the winter I understand. Ludicrous, I know.

[MUFC_fan]

I hope they don't cancel their BCN flights, I have an outbound flight with them in January!:eek:

[TartinTon]

Ludicrous in what respect? Highly seasonal routes with not enough winter traffic to justify services or only at a level that would have everyone bleating about how high the prices are. Airlines aren't charities much to everyone's amazement :ugh::ugh::ugh:

You want services through the winter but aren't prepared to pay a fare that at least covers the operating cost of flying the aircraft.

As a broad rule of thumb, you're probably looking at £8000 a sector to cover the operating cost at a winter load factor of 70%. 150 seater aircraft = 105 pax a sector = £76 a sector before taxes charges.

Now do you see why it's actually quite a good decision and why other airlines are cutting capacity (and why 2 or 3 are going to go bust)?

[MUFC_fan]

To be honest, I would be very happy for WW to cut MAD and LIS this winter and whatever else they are cutting just to see that they are still here next summer.

Same goes for all airlines. During the winter let them cut what they want, it is during the summer months when airlines plow the passengers through the airport.

Look at MAN-PMI, doesn't look like a slow down in passengers heading there! FCA have many flights heading out there daily, mainly on the 757. Not to mention TOMs 763s etc.

Are we seeing any massive reductions in Charter traffic this winter. ie) reductions because of the high costs, not consolidation, or is it hard to tell? I suppose we can look at XL and MON to get a bit of an idea.

[jongeman]

Vuelo

It'd be nigh on impossible to make any money on a part-time MAD or LIS service over the winter. Daily on EZY or IB might cut it, but not WW and they know it.

[BigT2207]

Just found this on the BBC website


Two aircraft have been involved in what has been described as a "minor wingtip collision" at Manchester Airport.
The planes, carrying a combined 287 passengers and crew, touched wings while they were taxiing out to the runway from Terminal One.
A spokesman for Manchester Airport said no-one onboard the aircraft was hurt in the collision.
The airport remained fully operational and there were no delays as a result of the incident, he added.
One of the planes involved was a Futura flight bound for Tenerife - a Boeing 737-800 - which was carrying 180 passengers.
The other, an Airbus A320, was a Lufthansa flight carrying 107 passengers to Frankfurt, Germany.
The flights were due to take off five minutes apart at 1315 BST and 1320 BST respectively.
Both aircraft are currently being checked over by the fire service as a safety precaution and will be examined by experts in due course to assess any damage.
"Passengers are currently being taken back to the terminal and are likely to complete their onward journeys later today," the spokesman added.

[AndyH52]

I don't regard having five aircraft divert into Liverpool as remaining "fully operational"... :=

[viscount702]

Looks like LS will be retreating further from MAN next year.

Some ? summer 09 flights now on sale.

Unless you are intending to fly between mid July and Mid September then there are all but no flights on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Viscount

[strid]

Hi, I was at Manchester today burger bar at the aviation viewing stand and i noticed a monitor displaying real time info of aircraft as they approached the airport - height, code, type air speed. Does anyone know the name of this application?

[MUFC_fan]

I love the BBC report where the Lufthansa passenger being interviewed calls the Futura 737 the "Futurama aircraft.":}:}:}:}:}

strid,

It is an SBS system (google search). Cost quite a lot but absolutely fantastic!:ok:

[strid]

Base Station SBS-1

Thanks MUFC