MANCHESTER - 5

[TURIN]

egcc
It'll be behind the EK A380. :rolleyes: :E:ok:

[MUFC_fan]

Can we predict any new services in the next 12 months?

Obviously CX would be one of them and looks like it could be coming true, but who else?

Personally I think these could be interested (NOT ACTUALLY LOOKING!), please correct me if you think I am wrong, just thinking aloud:

Easyjet, Air AsiaX, Thai, Kingfisher, Jet Airways, United, JAL?

[eggc]

MUFC - Bloody hell - you are very optimistic.

Turin - is that the lunch or tea time 380 :}

[MUFC_fan]

New record - 7 minutes!

eggc - read the post carefully - INTERESTED!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[eggc]

I replied to your previous post in 4 minutes, therefore 7 is quite slow really. :ok:

[Ian Brooks]

Cannot see Jet Airways coming as they have just done a deal to codeshare ex
BHX with SN via BRU so I`m sure Manchester will go the same way

Ian

[c2lass]

I had the very displeasure to spend 4 hours in Terminal 3 yesterday and what a disgusting filthy place it was. We were going to get some hot food but when we went into the cafe the tables were all dirty, there was food all around the tables, on the chairs etc. We gave up. Then we tried to find a nice "clean" seat in the quite vast seating areas. Again, dirty chairs, spills, crumbs, filthy floor. The little tables at the side of the chairs were all choco with glasses, cups, plastic cups, newspapers, and other general rubbish. It was an absolute disgrace.

I saw 4 cleaners all outside the toilets area with their trollies all just chatting. Not once during our 4 hours there did we see any cleaners cleaning the area.

What must our foreign visitors think?

[spannersatcx]

Did anybody know about the new CX service to begin next year - passenger?
Of course, this is subject to government approval, but do we really think they will turn them away?!
Will this be a A330, A340 or B744? About time MAN got Hong Kong onto the map!
Not a hope in hell. Nothing in the pipeline except freighters to Dublin.:ugh:

or maybe a 777!:=

[rampman]

i'm with you on that spannersatcx you will never see a CX passenger flight in MAN if ever they like to play down at LHR if they do come to MAN i will eat my hat whilst i do a jig up taxiway delta ontop of a tug :O

:ok: rampman

[spannersatcx]

I'd like to see both rampman:eek:, but it just won't ever happen.

[chiglet]

That's if you can get an ATC clearance :E
Re CX, read BA
Re QF, ditto
Re MCO,LAX, read BA....sorry London International Airways :rolleyes:
EY 10+ tonnes freigh average
EK 16+ ditto
QR not on my database
Highest Pax...
EY 230+
EK 415+
QR 240+
watp,iktch

[jongeman]

c2lass. It's hardly like foreign visitors are coming from pristine places, unless they're Swiss. I agree that it's a disgrace, but I'm pretty sure this kind of situation isn't confined to Manchester Airport Terminal 3. Wasn't there a duty manager on shift at the time? There must be one. If you can be bothered to, please write in to complain; it's obviously not acceptable.

[c2lass]

jongeman

No there was no official person going around. If there had have been I would have said something. In fact we were looking out for someone. Didn't think much point in speaking to shop or gate staff. I have visited a number of airports and can honestly say what we experienced yesterday was the worst I have ever seen.

I think I will go an see if I can find a contact and complain as after all if nobody speaks up, then nobody knows there is a problem!

[Momentary Lapse]

Dirty tables full of pots are the responsibility of the catering companies, principally SSP, but there are others.

However MA's duty manager should be on the floor keeping an eye on things and booting them up the bum if it gets too bad.


It's basic stuff though, isn't it? It's not hard.

Then again, with MAPLC sucking up all the retailers' profit margins with its horrendous concession fees, there's no money left to pay staff enough to make them want to turn up at 3am, walk from Staff West, queue through security etc. etc. They can work at the Trafford Centre, park outside, start at 10am, not get security hassle, and be paid more money.

[c2lass]

We did see some of the catering staff occassionally tidying up the tables ( a very basic clean was all they got) however the worst part was the general seating areas.

[Momentary Lapse]

I take it you are suggesting if the general seating areas are full of pots then it's not the catering companies' concern?

The amount of catering seating is included with the amount of non-catering seating when MA calculates how many seats it needs in a particular area. Thus, you don't need to buy food or drink to sit in a catering seat, and you can take food and drink out of the catering area to consume in a non-catering seat. The caterers pay for some seating, and they create the impression with barriers, different floors, lighting etc. that you have to pay their entry fee of buying something to sit there, but it's not true. Anyone can sit anywhere.

Thus, pots left anywhere are the responsibility of the caterers, and no-one else, to remove, along with wiping up crumbs, spills etc. from the tables, whoever they "belong" to. Deep cleaning, such as spills on the carpet, may come down to the airport's cleaners if outside the catering area. Perhaps that's what you mean?

Either way, it's a basic service requirement to keep the catering area clean. If it's dirty and full of pots, they won't sell as much because people will be put off. Plus there's the hygiene/disease/e.coli angle, especially when it's warm.

[c2lass]

Momentary Lapse, I was not really sure whose responsibility it was. I only saw catering staff occassionally clearing plates etc from within their own catering area. The areas outwith this were untouched for the whole time.

[Mr A Tis]

Jongeman, yes you are correct it isn't confirned to Manchester T3. You can easily find the same situation in Manchester T1 & T2.
Don't waste a stamp on writing in,because in my experience, MA never reply.

[jongeman]

Perhaps this is part of the British disease, whereby nobody ever takes much responsibility for anything and nobody's accountable. That may be a sweeping generalisation, but if I was a duty manager in charge of T3 I'd be obsessed with the general state of the facilities, and also the impression the customers were getting......especially in an international airport.

[MANFlyer]

I thought we hadn't had the good old wishlist for a while. :)

Not only are the old chestnuts CX and TG being brought up again but we've now got Jet, Kingfisher, UA and JL added to the list !!. Boom time is just around the corner by the looks of it :D

[Vuelo]

Jet will be codesharing with SN apparently to make use of their new services from BRU. Already announced on the BHX BRU oute so it is said.

What was that posting a few days all about pigs and ham??!!!

[MANFlyer]

What was that posting a few days all about pigs and ham??!!!

Well, as it followed the news of 2 x daily A380's at MAN and with references to Ham, Pork, Trough etc, if I was a betting man I may have a little flutter on it being about Flying Pigs. ;)

[spud]

Those dreadful taxiways at MAN are hardly Avro Anson ready, let alone A380.

[spannersatcx]

Perhaps this is part of the British disease, whereby nobody ever takes much responsibility for anything and nobody's accountable.

More likely none of them can speak English:eek:

[aidoair]

More likely none of them can speak English:eek:

:} Beat me to it... :O

[lexxity]

However MA's duty manager should be on the floor keeping an eye on things and booting them up the bum if it gets too bad.

Not bloody likely, the TDM will be out in the check in area bollocking the airlines fot their queues. Too many pax, too little room. Too many pax, too little serviceable equipment, like baggage belts. Obvioulsy none of these issues are down to MAPLC though! T3 is well over capacity, especially first thing. The Gate 3 lounge is usually a nightmare, you can have upto five flights either gated or bussing from there at once!:mad:

[c2lass]

Well I sent a on line complaint last night, thought I may have had a reply today but surprise surprise, nothing!!

[Ian Brooks]

This does not seem to have been picked up by anybody

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6947816.stm

[Momentary Lapse]

I was just going to mention it. :O

Whatever happened to Airfield's plans for a southside radar malarkey? That's gone quiet. Will this project include it?

Has the radar on the control tower broken yet? It's well past it's replacement/service date.

[viscount702]

I will believe it when it happens.

It reminds me of the announcement in June 2005 about extending T2 to the west and everything that went with it, with work to start in 2006.

There have been other proposals as well but they all go quiet and then you find they have been dropped or replaced with something else which also doesn't happen.

I think the management have been taking lessons from politicians. Announcements and spin then everything goes quiet. It looks good at the time but comes to nothing.

What the airport needs is not more shops or other outlets to make money(although the airport needs to make money) but improvements to the airfield, more particularly to the Terminals to provided customers with what they deserve.

You will not get more passengers or flights particularly from major airlines whilst the the airfield (taxiways etc) are inadequate for an airport of MAN's standing or if the Customers have to wait too long for security etc, because of inadequate provision of either equipment or staff. Earlier posts about the state of catering is an example.

It is all well and good having a beautiful Tower as a symbol but the rest of the Airport needs to live up to the status that symbol is trying to portray.

Viscount

[chiglet]

Whatever happened to Airfield's plans for a southside radar malarkey?
Errrmmm, there is a dirty great mast, with a thing spinning on it, on a hillock, south of 23L.
I believe that it is the new SMR.....But I could be wrong :hmm:
Ian, the "new" Tower has been mentioned umpteen times, not neccessarily on here.
watp,iktch

[semisonic]

i read this thread with interest and have followed its progress over a few years now. with regards to full service international routes manchester must be capable of significant development over the next year or two, with particular development from asia (cathay came close, thai rumoured for years now and the middle east carriers proving the pax are there). the management would not be doing the north west justice if they cannot secure such services, especially with the economic growth and the stature of manchester as an international city. come on manchester airport!

[Ian Brooks]

Cheers Chiglet
Must be going blind or something like that.
Could things happen by summer 2008? or is this a pipe dream
Have always wondered why they have stuck with tower in wrong place to get good view or both runways

Ian

[Fuel Boy]

I am led to belive that the ground traffic tower is to become a resturant, just what MAN needs more retail/food :ugh:.

On the upside I have also heard that MAPLC are putting the final plans to the new A/C docking system not sure on a time frame but lets hope it's soon:D.....

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-160807.htm

Just found this news release on the new tower

[OltonPete]

Just to give a bit of balance especially when considering the May and
June figures, the July 2007 ones are below.

MAN-DXB 45398 pax or 366 per flight or 85% load factor based on 433

MAN-DOH 17563 pax or 283 per flight

MAN-AUH 12182

The 2006 figures were: -

35861 DXB

14442 DOH

10844 AUH

GLA - DXB up to 22634 from 19907 (365 per flight or 845)

BHX - DXB up to 34523 from 27700 (278 per flight or 78%)

BHX did I think have a couple of 772's but mainly 77W's and 332's

All pretty good really.

Pete

[Ringwayman]

EK's 85% load on a 77WHD would be the equivalent of around 55% on an A380HD. Perhaps they are going to hold off the introduction of A380s on the route until the current services show a sustained 90%+ load

[AUTOGLIDE]

Personally I think MAN does need more retail development in order to give customer choice. T2 is a soulless and empty building with not much to do and a boring place if you are there for any length of time. It has one bar, the other one being always closed, one restaurant that is so packed in the morning I've yet to use it and a spattering of shops totally inadequate for the size of the building, 1 currency exchange which has never been staffed when I've needed it and 1 UK£ cash machine that I have yet to see work. T3 is even more boring and dreary, and T1 is, well, dreadful but thankfully being updated.
Yes MAN needs investment in the airfield, it also needs investment in the passenger experience. I can easily spend hours at LHR T4 mooching about, at MAN, forget about it, it's just rubbish as a place to spend any time.

[opnot]

viscont 702
you had better believe it

[FlyZB]

Autoglide, the comments in your last post reflect exactly what the passengers think. The airport compiles results from "Customer Satisfaction Surveys" every month and lists where it is doing well and the main areas of complaint. Every month the number one moan from pax is the lack of decent catering/retail facilities, including lack of choice and lack of space within the existing units. Other complaints to regularly appear from the survey are lack of seating and the state of the toilets. Both of these issues are being addressed in the T1/2 refurb.

Queuing very rarely appears as a top complaint. Many of you will be surprised about that but queues only affect certain periods of the day and therefore many passengers travelling through MAN will not experience queues either at checkin or at security. They do however experience the lack of airside facilities regardless of what time of day they travel, particularly in T2.

So for those of you who believe MAN doesn't need any more shops, cafes, bars & restaurants, you are very much mistaken.

[Mr A Tis]

The existing bars, cafes & "restaurants" are completely under staffed. There seems little point in providing more, if you dont staff the ones you already have.

[Vuelo]

am led to belive that the ground traffic tower is to become a resturant, just what MAN needs more retail/food .

You are kidding?! MAn has the worst catering facilities of any major UK airport! Especially airside. In the next year I understand that MAN is to get a McDonalds, Pizza Express, Subway and several more outelts. Thank God I say, am totally pissed off woith Boots sandwiches!

[Fuel Boy]

Seemed To have touched a nerve here :hmm:.. Yes T1 is in the middle of a much needed overhaul, and yes they are having more retail and food. Many of the posts sum it up, do we need more when the place is under staffed for the units that are in place now, and if they are going to convert the Ground tower is it in the planned refurb. or will be be done at a later date????

But will better/more restaurants make the airport more appealing to new airlines and new business, I don't think so. Surely MAN has to spend more on the ramp side issues thus bringing in the new business so they can fill the new resturants....

If an airline Can't load/unload all these A380 pax people are going on about then they won't come.

So yes I agree that the terminals do need updating inside to make for a better pax experience, but MAN need to develop ramp side at the same rate.....:)

[lexxity]

It's all very well adding new catering/retail units, but when you have airbridges that consistently fo tech then that should be the number one priority. The catering at MAN is crap, no bones made about it, but the actual ground handling facilities need more money spending on them first if they are to attract more airlines.

[parky747]

Has anyone have any further info on the rumoured new service MAN – MAD and other euro routes yet.

[MUFC_fan]

Don't know what anymore on the MAD routes but this is a surprise:

BA is to once again reuse it's B752s on Domestic services to MAN.

From 16/10/07 until further notice:

MAN-LHR
BA1387
BA1395
BA1403

LHR-MAN
BA1382
BA1386
BA1388
BA1396

I thought these aircraft were to be used for new EU-US routes. If they are on the route for the winter season, surely they won't be available for the start of the summer season when they plan NYC-CDG/MAD/BRU (Times). They don't change configuration overnight!

Anyway, just a note. BA 752 back at MAN!!!:D:D:D:D

P.S.

Any truth from A.netter that MAN-IAD/BOS for BA with 752 with new verture? Cheers.

[Mr A Tis]

I would expect a MAN-MAD route even more unlikely now that Ryanair are joining EasyJet on the LPL-MAD. To think only months ago, MAN had two a day & now LPL are taking the lead.
As for any new BA longhaul from MAN:rolleyes: Dream on:rolleyes:

[MUFC_fan]

If MAN were to attract a large carrier they would certainly be able to make it work.

There is only a 3x weekly increase from LPL. Yes, EZY and FR can attract passengers better than anybody else in Europe, but MAN can certainly attract the passengers against LPL.

Would love it to be IB!:}:E

I'm still sure LS will have it covered from LBA, MAN and NCL by next summer.

[Charlie Roy]

However Ryanair will operate a lousy Tue, Thur, Sat LPL - MAD schedule at the not most desirable flight times ever.

Manchester should engage with Vueling in an effort that their first UK route should be MAD - MAN.

Either that or do a rain dance and hope Jet2, BMI or Flybe will introduce the route.

[MUFC_fan]

I think the days of the ERJ on the route are gone unless a multi-day flight is introduced. BE won't do it as they cancelled the route in the first place! BMI COULD do it but would need to flights per day with the 145.

LS or WW would be perfect with the 148 seater 733 which would be economically be able to compete with EZY and FR on times and fares. The best bet would be LS as it would be a possible route to open up to all it's other bases and also compete directly with EZY from EDI which it has done so successfully over the past 12 months.

[Mr A Tis]

but MAN can certainly attract the passengers against LPL

Don't bank on it. Liverpool have sustained a double daily Barcelona for years, but Manchester can't. Look at the whole raft of destinations served by RYR from LPL- destinations, MAN can only dream about.

Zero chance of Iberia returning, the only hope would be their cheapo arm Clickair having a stab - but they have entered the UK market using Heathrow & Edinburgh rather than MAN.

I do think customer service ( to the airlines - ramp facilities) & ( to the pax - terminal experience) has something to do with it.

Nobody would like to see MAN regain the initiative more than me, but somehow, IMHO I still think it's a long way off.

[spanishflea]

MUFC_fan, what are you on about? The BA 757s never left MAN! They've been operating the Shuttle all this year!

[Ian Brooks]

Is there a pattern with BA on the shuttle as you can never work out what is going to operate any flight from day to day and week to week?


Ian

[dwlpl]

However Ryanair will operate a lousy Tue, Thur, Sat LPL - MAD schedule at the not most desirable flight times ever.

Lousy?

If I were to use the LPL/MAD route for a weekend for example, I would fly out on the Ryanair Thursday morning and return on EZY Sunday evening.

[Curious Pax]

EK's 85% load on a 77WHD would be the equivalent of around 55% on an A380HD. Perhaps they are going to hold off the introduction of A380s on the route until the current services show a sustained 90%+ load

They seem to be planning on a 2012 introduction of 380s to MAN, which isn't exactly rushing it! Think back to the number of flights/pax EK had in 2002, what it is now 5 years later, and what it might be in another 5 years.

[parky747]

In the days BA Cityexpress/Connect operated the MAN - MAD service, does anyone know the load factors they had. I would imagine that it would still be profitable particularly on business class!!!

[GLENO]

Parky747.

Having travelled the route four times over the past two years, the flights that I took were full both ways, I used to take the morning departure out on an Embraer which was always full and back again on the 20.20 hrs departure from Madrid,on the last return flight I took the route was opearted by a Bae146-200 and this also was full.

Can't believe Flybe did'nt make a go of it.:ugh:

Shame that nobody is taking a look at this route.
I would certainly use it.

Glen.

[uncovered]

BACON lost many millions of pounds on this route. Longish sector, poor loads, high costs.

[globetrotter79]

I note very little is being said these days about GB at MAN. In theory, with the mighty BA out of the way (obviously subject to any lingering route agreements that might be in place with flyBe), one would assume that it is now open field for GB to do what they like...e.g. MAN-MAD. One would assume that they could actually use an aircraft to do both GIB-MAD-GIB and MAN-MAD-MAN and, insodoing, linking the two to give MAN both a direct MAD and a one-stop GIB in one hit.

...but then, perhaps GB are likely to follow the BA lead and focus on becoming London Airways mk II...

[pwalhx]

With regard to Madrid and other destinations, BA over the years had many popular routes from manchester when they used the 737 and dare I say it the 1-11, it started going downhill when they started reducing the size of the aircraft.

[viscount702]

pwalhx

although I have no information to support your view I think you are correct in what you say.

[viscount702]

I am also am wondering what GB are doing. Considering the claims when they first started things haven't gone to plan. Even their winter schedule doesn't fully use the the based aircraft if one is still based at MAN.

What service are they operating? Are they operating as BAConnect although I thought that went with the BACON sale or are they operating 2 class as BA used to.

[viscount702]

FR are to increase DUB service from this winter. Are they going to increase the SNN as stated because it isn't on their website although I am sure it used to be.

Any further news on Polish or any other routes

[JETSET115]

Wots With All The Work On The Taxiways At Man Its Like A Building Site Heard Last Night That The Taxiway Outside Nea Was Breaking Up

[viscount702]

It has been stated elsewhere that there is a rumor going round that BA might use a couple of 757 on longhaul routes next summer . BOS & YYZ have been suggested.

I think it is unlikley but you never know. Although Willie Walsh ruled out expansion at MAN he did go on to refer only to european routes. BOS would be strange as they Codeshare with AA but there is doubt AA will operate next year. YYZ is also odd. No doubt just another rumor or wishful thinking.

Any more news on Aeroflot cargo or the Dublin cargo.

[chiglet]

Heard Last Night That The Taxiway Outside Nea Was Breaking Up
Ah yes, that's the old A538 Wilmslow Road. I think that the old sewers may have collapsed.
watp,iktch

[Suzeman]

At least there is some good news on the cargo front :)- you know that unsexy side of the business which nobody takes any notice of .....:}

Taken from the Manchester Airport July 2007 Cargo Newsletter.

"All records were broken in July as Manchester Airport recorded its highest ever figures for a monthly cargo performance and moving annual total. July’s 15,181 tonnes of freight and mail was 29.2% above last year’s equivalent month and was also the first time a monthly total had passed the 15,000 tonnes mark. The moving annual total in the twelve months to the end of July stood at a new record high of 157,169 tonnes, a 5% increase from a year ago".....

About 1500 tonnes extra came from Great Wall and Jett 8 but the long haul pax carriers also saw increases. Well done to all concerned.:D

Also from the newsletter.

"There is more new freighter business to come as Federal Express begin a four times a week MD11 service to their Memphis hub in the last week of August, Air China start a three times a week B747-400 freighter service to Shanghai in the first week of September, and Aeroflot begin a weekly DC10 freighter service also in the first week of September."

I have heard stories that the SU flight will change to 737F later?? Do they have any or which airline's aircraft will be used if this is correct?

Viscount - I must have missed the Dublin cargo story - any clues?

Suzeman

[viscount702]

Suzeman

I read somewhere maybe not on this thread that the only new route on the horizon was cargo to DUB. no further information

Viscount

[Ringwayman]

If the plan is for 2 daily A380s from 2012, then it's a bit of leap from 2 77WHDs i.e. an additional 800 seats per day. I'm anticipating around April-July 2010 when EK17 becomes an A380 (perhaps this could be brought forward to November 2009?) with EK19 going to A380s from November 2012, so that we have "staged" increases of 400 seats a day with 2.5 to 3 years to raise numbers to a level when the 2nd A380 can be filled with reasonable loads (60%+).

[BHDflyer]

Back to food, the only food which is actually well priced and tastes nice at airports, is McDonalds and Burger King. I just can't understand why Heathrows new terminal 5 will forbid the glorious 'M', and the Burger King signs, to have overpriced, swanky, celebrity chef boll*cks restaurants which their food quite frankly isn't as nice as the airport toilet brushes.:ugh:
Of course if your wise enough, you'd wait until you board your flight. I don't actually know why some people complain about airplane food (Ryanair obviously an exception), the past few occasions I've flown theres been no probs.

[eastern wiseguy]

tastes nice at airports, is McDonalds and Burger King

You have been sniffing chemicals right?:}

Makes the place look "Chavvy" ...loads of litter..not the image they are looking for.

[globetrotter79]

Yeah right, think about it logically...if you have a capitive audience, you'll try and eek as much cash out of their pockets as possible. I have no doubt that BAA have, much like any other airport, a commission structure for concessions...so what is the point of bringing in the mighty M if their average yield per head is much lower than other possible concessionnaires and, hence, less commission in the BAA coffers.

Let just hope the alternatives can push through the bulk custom which M's inevitably always achieve...

[RobT100]

Looks like some serious delays from TCX this morning at MAN. Not good at all :confused:

[Momentary Lapse]

The best catering is at the Lancaster Brasserie.

The coffee's not much more expensive than Costa, and for that you get it brought to your table by a bowing and scraping flunky, with a comfy seat and a cracking view of the runway.

The food's excellent and well priced for the quality.

MAN's best kept secret.

[gsky]

MAN's best kept secret.


well it was!!!:bored:

[IB4138]

The coffee's not much more expensive than Costa

...and it's not got hidden laxatives in it! :suspect:

Tis a known fact that drinking Costa Coffee...worldwide....has an effect on the bowels, within a very short space of time! :ooh:

[STATSMAN]

Would that be the bit road that became runway when the gates were closed, back in the 1950's. Ah Daks Viscounts & DC6's.


Statsman

[MAN777]

It seems to have gone unnoticed that MAN is not only expanding retail facilities, it is also replacing most of the apron in stages, hence the constant taxiway diversions. I was talking to one of the contractors recently and he said that the old concrete is thick enough its just that the sub foundations (on top of cheshire clay) are not up to the job of holding up 747s 777s etc. He would not disclose exactly how much each segment was costing but he hinted each square was into 5 figures, there are a hell of a lot of squares out there, so it must be costing MAN a fortune.

[JETSET115]

What Happened To The Expansion Plans At Man Regarding T2 And Other Areas Seems To Have Gone Quiet Keep Hearing Rumblings That The Fls Hangar Area Is Going To Be Made Into Apron Facilities Whichmeans Relocating Fls

[Scottie Dog]

Can I refer you to the excellent posting by Roverman - Post #463 - that does indeed go into the taxiway work and numerous diversions in place at the moment.

Hopefully some of the other items that he refers to may also come to fruition.

Scottie Dog

[Bagso]

...which means Relocating Fls


yes and if rumours are true the viewing park !

[757manipulator]

I'm told this winters Zoom Calgary rotations will be operated and crewed by Zoom UK crew.

[Wodrick]

Let's get it right, it is no longer the FLS hangar, it's the MyTravel hangar, soon to be the Thomas Cook hangar. Rumour is that it is on a long lease from MIA and in the agreement is free re-location to a custom built facility should a move be required.

[spannersatcx]

Doesn't half of it belong to SRTechnics?

[Wodrick]

not anymore, the dark side came over earlier this year, about the BMI 330 time methinks

[FlyZB]

Regarding the Madrid route, if any carrier is to take this on then my money would be on Thomsonfly. They seem very keen on expanding at MAN and tend to do well on routes that have previously failed with other airlines. Lisbon is a good example, with loads of 100+ on most services since it started. Where have all these pax come from coz NI didn't carry anywhere near this amount? I also expect to see other new destinations offered by TOM next summer.

Elsewhere in the low cost stakes, it is rumoured that Jet2 are to base an additional 3 aircraft at MAN next year. So that will mean an increased program. Any ideas where they might fly to? A few polish and other eastern European destinations to rival FR at LPL would be good.

ZB will be releasing their Summer 08 flights from MAN very soon. S08 from BHX is already on sale. I would expect to see increased frequencies and at least 1 new route from them.

And what about bmibaby? Their growth at MAN has become stagnant in recent years which is very disappointing. After a disasterous flight with them three years ago, I flew with them again this Summer and found that the level of service and overall performance had greatly improved. They do very well on the few routes they do offer from MAN, so will we see any further expansion from them or are they happy with what they've got?

[Vuelo]

Agree, TOM are doing VERY well from MAN, and TLV is just such a money spinner that they can't fail on i. When I booked my tickets for TLV for January, I was amazed to see they are charging £15 for a Kosher meal!

Expect to see destinations like WAW, BBU, SPU, MLA, SOF, RIX, TLL and POZ from LS in the next year. I nderstand BVN will also be back next summer, with improved timings (if ZB don't go double daily, presumably).

[tewkesbury]

Let's get it straight, it is the Fairy Aviation Hangar 1 and Fairies Apron:ugh::ugh:

[Wodrick]

You must be as old as me, but it was demolished and a new one built !:)

[Charlie Roy]

New route to Warsaw with Centralwings.

[aeulad]

Timings on Tue, Thu and Sat indicate a second route will be announced.

Regards

Mike

[Vuelo]

POZ will also be announced next week.

Flights to Bucaresti are also to appear on the timetable at MAN shortly apparently.

[peakp]

Aeulad,

Add a Sunday dept. as well. With the timings it does leave room for another flight.
Looks like Lot are going
Regards
peakp

[viscount702]

not sure if this has been mentioned but XL are to start daily scheduled services to ALC & AGP next summer times vary

[tartcart]

don't know where they're gonna get the staff from to operate this as they're saying we're overcrewed and they're looking to scale back the staff:eek:

[FlyZB]

Surprised by this move from XL. Thought they'd be keen to concentrate on the Greece/Turkey market and continue to operate to destinations that are not well served by other carriers. Will daily AGP/ALC work for them? These markets must be close to saturation point and the majority of pax heading down to these destinations are frequent travellers with their own 'favourite' airline, ie - ZB, WW etc. Can XL take business off the Loco's? They are not well known as a flight-only carrier and therefore will need to undergo a decent advertising campaign to sway people away from the well known scheduled airlines on these routes.

[tartcart]

thats why they're in this trouble- to much money spent on advertising,new uniform,swnaky new offices!
all perm crew have been offered five choices for winter:
50% contract
5 months unpaid leave
18 month career break
vol redundancy
or none of the above suit.
doesn't inspire confidence about the stability of our jobs, worrying times ahead.

[viscount702]

The XL flights were mentioned in the MAPLC Getaway E Mail of 31 July. Missed it at the time. Not heard of it elsewhere and it is not advertised as such on XL website although the flights are there to book using the JN scheduled flight number. They are also doing flights from LGW ALC daily, AGP 2X Daily and FAO Daily.

To pick up an earlier post I haven't seen these advertised elsewhere unless someone can say different.

They may also be reducing flights elsewhere. The MLA scheduled flight isn't on the Website at the moment.

[MUFC_fan]

Will the BMIBaby MAN-Bordeaux flight be returing for the summer?

If so, when are WW supposed to release their winter schedule?

If they are not to release the flights, which is the nearest airport? Bergerac?

Cheers.

[airhumberside]

They are also doing flights from LGW ALC daily, AGP 2X Daily and FAO Daily.
MAN-LCA will also be a scheduled route according to their flight timetable, along with LGW-NOC and LTN/LCA/Paphos/SSH. Although very oddly not all flights are on sale yet, some of which are due to operate this winter

[toledoashley]

Most France WW routes dont run in the winter - expect maybe one or the other to continue.

[viscount702]

Strange

The LGW to NOC and the LTN flights weren't showing up the other day from memory.

On another note why is this page 31 not showing up as being there it was yesterday

Viscount

[viscount702]

spoke too soon page 31 is showing up now

[FlyZB]

Very strange that bmibaby are not offering MAN-BOD this winter as I'm sure it was 4/5 x weekly last winter. They seem to have scaled back quite a few of their routes this winter which yet again shows their total non commitment to Manchester. Would be very surprised if Bordeux didn't return next summer coz it gets very good loads.

[viscount702]

Last winter BOD was 2 45 7
PGF was 1 3 56

Nothing this year

In addition to WW I have doubts about GT and even BE commitment to Man at least in respect of the latter for routes to Europe.

LS winter season is none too good either. Summer yet to be seen. It does look as though they are dropping BGY, PRG and BCN which is about to go.

TOM seem to be the only one who look likely to expand at present

[FlyZB]

Which goes some way to backing up the argument that despite an array of LCC's already based at MAN, it still needs someone like FR or EZY to come in and show year round commitment. The current Loco's rely too heavily on seasonal routes. That said, I'm sure they could make these routes work throughout the winter months if they tried. LS are only operaing AGP 3 x weekly this winter and WW to AGP is reduced from daily to 5 x weekly. This is a poor show. AGP has immense year round demand and should be able to sustain various daily flights without a problem.

Jet2 have had a poor winter program from MAN since they started. They seem happy with hammering the leisure routes during the summer months and then offering a very sparse winter timetable. Why don't they go for some destinations that can be sustained year round? bmibaby seem to chop and change their program year on year. If BOD and PGF can operate 4 x weekly last winter, then why cut it altogether this winter? They certainly won't operate any alternative routes in their place. Very disappointed with WW. They have a relatively good product now and they do very well from MAN in terms of passenger loads. They just don't seem committed to going that extra mile.

Perhaps now is a good chance for TOM and ZB to dominate the field. I agree that TOM are showing excellent commitment to MAN and with a bit of forward planning and thought they can lead the game at Manchester. ZB have always shown the desire to expand services and with the exception of the odd few dropped routes, they have grown steadily since their arrival. Perhaps now is the time for them to dabble in some new markets away from the traditional 'bucket and spade' destinations.

[viscount702]

I agree with everything you say.

I think one of the problems is that there are too many LCC's at MAN none of which are showing the commitment one would have hoped. I could be wrong but LS came in full of good ideas but have gone in some ways like WW by expanding elsewhere and not concentrating there efforts as they could have done,particularly where Blackpool is concerned because that has to be taking PAXs away from their own services from MAN. Most LCCs at MAN go for leisure destinations whereas EZY and FR don't concentrate just on leisure.

I doubt either will come to MAN for a while because they are doing fine from LPL and to start services from MAN will affect their existing services at LPL

Viscount

[FlyZB]

If you have a look at the Jet2 thread, there are currently a lot of mutterings about them dropping routes/reducing frequency at other bases too. The problem with LS is I think they jump in at the deep end and expand hastily without any real thought being put in. They've made a few bad choices which has cost them. Operating PRG instead of WAW was an error and the timings on their BCN route were so useless, it's any wonder it has survived this long. With a bit more planning they could have offered routes from MAN to places such as MAD, TLL & RIX where there is demand but little competition.

Interestingly, for those of you who work at MAN, there is an interview with Michael O'Leary on the intranet. He is talking to the MAplc management regarding opening up a Ryanair base at Manchester. In the interview, he claims that if MAN were to offer a dedicated low cost terminal with guaranteed short turnaround times and cut prices facilities, then he would open up a base in a heartbeat. Whether or not he was just humouring the management is something to be considered but I genuinely think that MOL sees the potential of MAN and if he got what he wanted, then FR would soon be a regular visitor to Manchester.

[Keyvon]

seems like MYT has cancelled its planned charter flights from MAN to SJJ, which were due to start this winter for bringing britons to the bosnian slopes...

[MUFC_fan]

Totally agree about the MOL comments. LPL and MAN would easily be able to support the airline, just look at LTN/STN and Bremen/Dusseldorf. The current FR routes show how MAN is a success with both routes being increased in the next few months, and not affecting and LPL route.

The airport could do with a major reconstruction. If they were to turn T3 into a LC terminal which would be right next to 23R and near 23L. This would help give FR the 25 minute turnaround they want. It would also give LS, WW and BE a more efficient operation at the airport. Then, turn T2 into a long haul terminal and connect it with T1 which would work for EU and domestic flights.

Also, hoping to see EZY at the airport just like BHX.

[viscount702]

Not sure about the increase to SNN . Although they said they would increase to Daily ex Saturday and it was showing on their web site it is no longer available on the web site apart from the current schedule

[Ringwayman]

Doesn't most of the long-haul already go through T2?

U2 is still near the beginning of their "exclusive" contract with LPL; it's known that they wanted MAN ops to begin with but having made it's bed with BA, MAN is now lumbered without them for a good number of years unless U2 decides to tear up it's contract with LPL.

FR's problem is that they have 189 seats to fill on their aircraft. We have seen that they are trying out various routes out of LPL but have had to scale back and eventually withdraw some of them because the aircraft is too large to support those routes. Plus if we're talking up their expansion here, remember they only fly to Dublin and Shannon...and there are plenty of folk who visit those environs each year. If they had one or two non-Irish routes ex-MAN and were expanding those with no impact on LPL, then we might have cause for more optimism.

[FlyZB]

Any arrival from FR is ultimately determined by if and when the airport provides MOL with what he wants. They are spending a fortune on redeveloping Terminals 1 and 2, which goes completely against the type of facilities that Ryanair wants/needs from an airport. Plus, with all this money being spent it is hardly likely they will build a dedicated low cost terminal any time soon. The hope then pins on T3. Ideally located for a quick turnaround, although I think it will need to be made larger if it is to deal with all the Loco's in one hub. I have heard of plans that once the redevelopments have been completed, the idea is that all scheduled carriers will operate from T1, all charters from T2 and all Loco's from T3. Nice idea in theory, particularly if they do want to attract the likes of FR to the airport.

With regards to EZY, I don't think we will see them based at MAN any time soon but does this 'exclusive' contract with LPL mean they cannot operate into MAN from their other bases? If that is not the case, then I think we will see a small scattering of routes to MAN appear within the next few years, similar to what they've just announced at BHX.

[pwalhx]

If Easy has an exclusivity deal with Liverpool why has it applied for slots (which admitedly it didn't use) ex Manchester in the past.

[Momentary Lapse]

You can't put all your airlines in different terminals by type e.g. loco/sched/charter. That way, T1 and T3 would be busy morning and evening and dead in the day, and T2 would be dead all day but busy all night. So each terminal would be more peaky. You need a few of each in each terminal to fill in the peaks and troughs. That's an old idea and it won't happen.

Perhaps the locos won't/can't make a go of MAN because it's too expensive and too complicated, with too many delays and queues. That's why LPL etc. do so well. Enlightened, responsive, flexible management, and a compact and well-laid out terminal. MAN is a dinosaur in airport terms. FR is the opposite of that.

[Vuelo]

T3 will become the designed lo-co terminal at MAN once extended. Rumours are already going round that AA are set to move over to T1 once the redevelopment is completed there.

[MUFC_fan]

Why would AA move when BA are still at T3? I thought the plan was to keep all OneWorld airlines as close as possible across the globe. ie) Barajas, Narita and soon Heathrow.

One thing MAN would have to get rid of would be the air bridges from T3 if it was to become Loco. FR state (through their advertisement company) that all flights are boarded and deplaned by the passenger stairs and not using airbridges. Obviously, other airlines would want these, but it would certainly not appeal to FR!

So, as you say it is designed to be the new loco terminal, does this mean LS will be looking at moving? Obviously, ZB would have to stay at T1 as it would stay with it's charter market (MON).

[FlyZB]

Believe me, the plans to relocate airlines into terminals depending on category ie - Charter, Sched, Loco is not an old idea, it was in fact brought up at a Terminal 2 team brief meeting only a few weeks back and the airport is seriously considering it. How exactly it would work I'm not too sure, but the management are working through the plans. The idea is for AA/BA/BD to move out of T3 and into T1. WW would stay in T3 as would of course BE. LS and FR would move over to T3 from T1, ZB would stay where they are in T1. Then the plan is to move the merged TCX/MYT airline into T2 so that all the charters (except MON) are together. I'm guessing the smaller charters based in T1 would also move to T2.

On a different note, regarding FR and airbridges, whilst I was down at AGP this summer I noticed 2 Ryanair flights were on bridges. Very surprised to see this. Do you think they were lost??

[MUFC_fan]

Lol. I don't think they were lost, during the summer AGP can become one of the most cogested airports in Europe as it is such a popular destination with the Germans, British, Irish etc. ATC probably told them they had no option as all other stands were taken, and you don't mess with ATC! (Speaking from experience!)

[johnref]

Don;t FR also use airbridges in Madrid - at least they did when I passed through and experienced my slowest FR turnaround ever - not used to them only using 1 door.

[Suzeman]

I suppose if there is no separate additional charge for an airbridge, then MO'L would be delighted to use one on the basis of something for nothing:E

suzeman

[en2r]

I suppose if there is no separate additional charge for an airbridge, then MO'L would be delighted to use one on the basis of something for nothing
Airbridges slow down the turnaround time since there is only 1 door to unload/load versus two when not using the airbridge. 25 minute turnarounds are very hard to achieve using airbridges.

[airhumberside]

Believe me, the plans to relocate airlines into terminals depending on category ie - Charter, Sched, Loco is not an old idea, it was in fact brought up at a Terminal 2 team brief meeting only a few weeks back and the airport is seriously considering it. How exactly it would work I'm not too sure, but the management are working through the plans. The idea is for AA/BA/BD to move out of T3 and into T1. WW would stay in T3 as would of course BE. LS and FR would move over to T3 from T1, ZB would stay where they are in T1. Then the plan is to move the merged TCX/MYT airline into T2 so that all the charters (except MON) are together. I'm guessing the smaller charters based in T1 would also move to T2.
What about TOM, who are of course like Monarch, both a LoCo and a charter airline

And although Im sure there is a good reason for it, Monarch wouldn't be in either the LoCo or charter terminal if the above happenned

[IB4138]

On a different note, regarding FR and airbridges, whilst I was down at AGP this summer I noticed 2 Ryanair flights were on bridges.

With the current construction works, it is quicker to use an airbridge and one door, than park on the ramp ,which is now the other side of the cargo terminal, await two sets of steps and two sets of buses.

[Scottie Dog]

Are you talking about Manchester??

Pier B only has airbridges on stands 4/6/8 as far as I recall. All others are ramp served.

If you are talking of another airline than Ryanair - or another airport - then I apologise!!

[lexxity]

Ibbbie is talking about AGP.

[pwalhx]

Interestingly, for those of you who work at MAN, there is an interview with Michael O'Leary on the intranet. He is talking to the MAplc management regarding opening up a Ryanair base at Manchester. In the interview, he claims that if MAN were to offer a dedicated low cost terminal with guaranteed short turnaround times and cut prices facilities, then he would open up a base in a heartbeat. Whether or not he was just humouring the management is something to be considered but I genuinely think that MOL sees the potential of MAN and if he got what he wanted, then FR would soon be a regular visitor to Manchester.


Does anyone have a link for this interview it sounds like interesting reading.

[FlyZB]

Airhumberside, from what I understand TOM would stay in T2 because they currently operate more charter flights than Loco. Whether this remains to be seen in a few years from now, I guess time will tell. Monarch Scheduled (ZB) are classified as a scheduled carrier rather than an LCC. And as Monarch have more ZB flights than MON flights, that's the reason they would stay in T1.

With regards to the interview with MOL, not sure if you can access the intranet externally. For those of you that can get on internally, it's part of the Customner First program and there are many interviews with different airline MD's.

[viscount702]

Is the proposed new CA cargo service to PVG still intended to start next month

Viscount

[spannersatcx]

Air China Starts 1st September.

[Fuel Boy]

Viscount

As I am aware yes they are still comming, they contacted us about their schedule and timings.

Arr 1525 Dep 1835 on one day
Arr 2035 Dep 2255 on two days

if memory serves but still tbc.

Fuelboy:)

[viscount702]

Thanks

Any more details

Viscount

[viscount702]

With not much good news these days at least on the PAX routes and movements front can anyone tell me why MAPLC don't publish on their web site what good news there is.

I cannot remember them saying anything about ED FDX GWL JX CA and maybe even SV.

Is it that they are not keen on some of these operators.

Also what is happening to PK. AS far as I am aware their ban has been lifted but no sign of services increasing. In fact their schedules into next summer seem to be decreasing. Just before the ban they were about to increase but no sign of this now

Viscount

[FlyZB]

PK don't know whether they are coming or going! I think they are currently operating the 13th revised version of their Summer schedule, which seems to change every fortnight! Plus their passenger numbers are being seriously affected by Air Blue, which goes out full most days. Once ED start operating a direct daily service using an A330 as opposed to the A321, I think there will be a real battle between carriers to Pakistan. Of course, the demand should be able to support both airlines but with the fares Air Blue are offering, you can understand why PK passenger numbers are down.

[MUFC_fan]

PK are able to hold off Air Blue with their connections to the US.

Good to see Air Blue will be increasing aircraft size and offering direct services. Will the aircraft be in 2 classes?

[Ms Spurtle]

Airhumberside, from what I understand TOM would stay in T2 because they currently operate more charter flights than Loco

Definately staying in T2. Especially as they merge with FCA next week.

[jongeman]

viscount702 - perhaps the reason why MAN are slow to publish news on the website is because the last time they lauded a big new service, to SVO and HKG, it failed to take off (or land!)

[viscount702]

I don't think that is the reason. The HKG situation was unfortunate. As far as I know this was not the fault of MAPLC or at that time CX but as a result first of an objection from BMI and then problems with the Russians.It must be remembered that it wasn't just the airport who announced but also CX who had the flights on sale

The airport doesn't even announce anything these days even when it happens.

I suppose they might if it was big enough but as I said before they have never announced ED and neither have they said anything about cargo by GWL JX and FDX even though they have started.

Viscount

[FlyZB]

Looks like ZB are dropping XRY. Flights not bookable after March 08, with all their other Summer 2008 routes from MAN now on sale. Perhaps they will be returning to GIB! I've heard they've also cancelled slots for a proposed twice weekly LCA service :sad:

[Vuelo]

MAN is really suffering this winter...the only growth I can see is Centralwings, hardly a major coup. MAplc can't even be bothered to put it on their website!

[bigMANofMAN]

Vuelo

the only growth I can see is Centralwings, hardly a major coup. MAplc can't even be bothered to put it on their website!

That is probably because it is not growth......
It is a replacement for the superior service of the national airline of Poland, LOT !!! :ugh:

Yet again, MAN gains but also loses..........

bigMAN

[MANFlyer]

As a regular long haul business traveller I find it sad and quite worrying that virtually all the talk of new routes or frequencies at MAN are LCC's. From looking really promising a few years back with MH still here and CX and possibly TG on their way, we've now got people hoping one of worst airlines on the planet will be setting a base up. Where did it all go wrong ?.


Talking of terminal movements. MAN are still badgering SQ to move to Terminal 1, but they are having none of it. If they did at least we would be spared that disgraceful Servisair lounge in T2. Although the complaints from SQ pax about that place are mounting and they are being pressured to do something about it. The sooner the better.....

[Vuelo]

It all went wrong when MAplc realised they had been shafted by licking a**e with BA and getting totally shafted when they sold off BACON.

As for SQ going to T1, they may change their mind when the T1 redevelopment is done and the lounges are rebuilt and relocated.

The airport also want AA and BD at T1 so that they can make T3 all loco and domestic.

[Adola69]

See what happens when you take "Shopping" out of the equation where airline services are concerned?:)
New Services started recently are
Great Wall Cargo B744F's, No Shopping outlets required at all!
Jett8 Cargo B742F's, No Shopping outlets required at all!
Fed-Ex Cargo MD-11F's, No shopping outlets required at all!
Air China Cargo B744F's - No shopping outlets required at all!
Aeroflot Cargo DC-10F's (This Tuesday 4/9) - No shopping outlets required at all!
Fanbl***ytastic.
Now all we need is for the Aeroflot chappies to change their minds about substituting, with a B737F on the cargo-run after 4 weeks of DC-10F ops, with an An-12. This to will still require NO SHOPPING OUTLETS AT ALL !!!
Bring 'em on, those lovely cargo haulers !:ok:

[gazza007]

Off to LCY on Thursday am.
Can't remember if Driving Licence is OK from when I went last Oct or do I need my Passport?

Cheers

[OltonPete]

How long has this been showing as a 757?

First flight appears to be 8/1/08 and continues into June at least per
one booking engine. I know this was on the cards but don't remember
the announcement.

Pete

[TPS56]

Have Jet2 pulled MANTXL??? I was planning a flight this xmas to see family and was looking at the site a week ago went back today and nothing from end Oct. I'm sure they had days 1,3,5,7 loaded. That or Im going mad.

[jongeman]

Yes, TXL was loaded over the winter, I was going to book for February. The situation now at MAN is becoming desperate, no flights to the capitals of Spain or Germany, only flybe operating to Milan - (and no competition from LPL), flights to Geneva at only the busiest skiing times...etc

[semisonic]

Read on the MEN today that Air India officials are 'seriously considering' returning to MAN! Realistic? Also I remember SQ saying 10 weekly was possible....any chance of that after going daily (Nov is it?).

[Mr A Tis]

Jet2.com don't fly to TXL & never have. TXL=Berlin Tegel).
The Jet2 flights go to Berlin Schonefeld SXF.
Yes, the SXF flights were on for the winter, expensive too, I thought. Looks like its been pulled.

Good news for German fans though.........Air Berlin are to continue the Hamburg service through winter, bookable now from £1, despite the check in staff only last week telling me its scrubbed.:confused:

[MANFlyer]

SQ definitely daily 772ER from Winter schedule. This is more than welcome as the flights are rammed at the moment.

They have put in an official request with HQ for a second daily flight 3 times a week, preferably Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The problem is lack of aircraft caused by selling 744's and then not getting A380's on time and also other destinations are chasing additional flights as well. They're are 'on the list', so keep your fingers crossed.

A Friday afternoon/evening flight to Changi would be fantastic for me personally.

[Bagso]

Read on the MEN today that Air India officials are 'seriously considering' returning to MAN

I am sure I read on the BHX thread that loads thru there were not sparkling, maybe a tech stop via Manchester would be more profitable ?

[OltonPete]

Bagso

The Air India operation at BHX is real difficult one to judge as there are no monthly transit figures.

The BHX - ATQ averages between a low of 65 per flight to a high of 110
(probably when it was three a week).

The BHX - YYZ averages from a low of 25 per flight to about a high of 70.

The transits vary wildly from day to day and even late July saw some really bad figures then to be followed by the YYZ been oversold for three days in a row only to drop again.

Even when the transit load drops they do not always fill it with BHX pax on either the YYZ or ATQ.

Basically it is a glorified tech-stop but an Indian news agency stated that it was going daily in the New Year - quote from senior management.

I think it was the same article which mentioned an European hub and I would imagine that Manchester will be in the running and although BHX's runway extension application is allegedly imminent, 2012 is the probably the earliest date for completion, which rules out any West Coast route (USA & Canada) unless the 787 has the legs from 8500ft strip.

Pete

[J-Man]

gazza007 , to answer your question drivers license is fine for domestic flights.

[Ringwayman]

I'm sure all the reports about AI and a Europena hub say it will not be an existing destination? I've seen Vienna and Amsterdam mentioned as possible gateways.

[GLENO]

Had the pleasure of being driven round the airport after arriving on the Air Berlin flight from Stansted earlier this evening, dashed to the loo in terminal 1 arrivals just as you exit from passport control....what a mess...looked like the place had'nt been cleaned for weeks,stunk to high heaven and a "Sharps Bin" for used needles placed above on a ledge near the sinks!!....I kid you not!!!...Is this Common Practice Now???..........The arrivals Area is a joke......well the whole place is at the moment!!

Been to Dublin and Stansted today, both efficient and clean!!!!! Just somebody would tell the muppets at Manchester pull their fingers out!!:ugh::ugh:


Onwards to Liverpool!!

[Mr A Tis]

I did the airport bus tour too arriving from STN with AB the day before.
Welcomed to the gate by a baggage loader sprawled out sunbathing on a baggage trolley. Watched an airport hand push a pair of steps to the aircraft that were clearly tagged in red "Do Not Use", then waited 10 minutes whilst a different pair of steps brought to the aircraft. The German crew were not amused by the fiasco. For heavens sake Manchester, get a grip !!

[Charlie Roy]

Jet2 cancelling Barcelona but starting Sharm El Sheik

[Fuel Boy]

You're having a laugh...............

Any timings yet? are they going to bring in more A/C ? can't see them losing 2 sectors a day from 1 of their 757's, or is this an expansion of Jet2 Holidays?

Fuelboy:ok:

[aidoair]

This new service to Egypt will be bookable through jet2 holidays but the flgihts will be operated by XL airways. Although in the future and from next summer if they decide to continue the service we could see them operating this route with there own aircraft.

[MUFC_fan]

An LC airline starting to work with charter carriers, LS really are the for front of future UK aviation!:D

What is happening over the winter? There are loads of routes that have been operating year round from all of their bases that have not been announced yet and there is less than two months before the flights are expected to take off! Loads of routes from LBA and MAN in particular are currently not available! Come on LS! They seem to be too busy with the S08 flights.

[STATSMAN]

GLENO

You picked the 2nd worst loo on the airport, the worst been by immigration in T2 arrivals (Both I have to use as are near my offices)

STATSMAN

[Momentary Lapse]

Usually blocked by some passenger groupings flushing their documents down the loo before presenting at immigration as asylum seekers.

[GLENO]

Whole place stinks at the moment!!:}

No route to Madrid as yet!, and little to get excited about over the winter routes.

Am I correct in thinking that Air Berlin are pulling off the Stansted route?
Yesterdays evening flight had around 80pax inbound.

Management really do need to pull their fingers out, we do really need some new long haul routes......Hong Kong,a direct Australia service etc.

Just my 2p's worth.

[eggc]

add it to the ever growing wish list...

Stansted, Madrid, Hong Kong, Moscow, Sydney, Melbourne, LAX, Washington, Kuala Lumpa etc etc...

It makes me want to start Air Manchester 2008 Ltd, lease a few 320/330/744's and serve the above destinations with no competition. Doesnt take a genius. I'll be rich..Whoopeee :rolleyes:

But seriously...EZY would fit in at MAN perfectly now. MAD/BCL/STN for starters would surely be no brainers. :ok:

[Adola69]

A contact tells me that Volare are looking to start an MXP service in October, using A.320's, 6 times per week. (I do hope they have more success than Alitalia have in the past?). Not sure of timings or days of op.
This combined with the Centralwings start-up (Albeit at the expense of parent airline LOT ) operating to KRK, and possibly POZ & WAW as well, makes for some cheery news amidst this bleakness amongst Pax services.
Cargo is anything but bleak - yippeeee:D

[MAN777]

You would have to be crazy to go head to head with the likes of EK and Singapore Airlines to service the Australia market, x3 daily between them can take you anywhere east with only a short stretch your legs stop.
Perhaps thats why we havent seen any interest from our antipodean friends for years.
The cargo market is looking very good, however why are the cargo tonnage figures so low, they seem to have been hovering round the lower 100,000 tonnage mark for years, I would have thought with the number of dedicated freighters passing through that the figures would be booming. I think we must have more wide body freighters (747, DC10) than anywhere else in the UK now.

[Ian Brooks]

157,000 tons would be closer to the mark for last 12 months and if it continues it`s growth of this year, by year end we could be looking at
somewhere close to 162,000+ but could be somewhere near to 170,000
as all the new operators come on line this summer which would mean an
extra 20,000 tons over last year

Ian

[Keyvon]

centralwings has unveiled its second polish link from MAN.
they will be flying 3x to Krakow, along with WAW which is operated four times per week...so this makes a daily rotation into MAN.

Good they already found a replacement for the Skyeurope service, as they'll soon pull out from Krk.

[Ian Brooks]

Yes it does look like it and therefore it looks as if they will do another destination as well due the gap during the day on 3 of the WAW, here`s hoping
Judging by the number of Polish in South Manchester I think it will do well

Ian

[eggc]

...so this makes a daily rotation into MAN

...not according to the below timings taken from another site - which dont seem to add up at all, unless there are more rotations to be revealed ?

Wednesdays & Fridays looks like being Poleless !

Krakow
Mon arr 15.05 dep 09.30
Thu arr 15.05 dep 15.50
Sun arr 15.05 dep 15.50

Warsaw
Tue arr 08.55 dep 15.10
Thu arr 08.55 dep 15.10
Sat arr 08.55 dep 15.10
Sun arr 17.45 dep 18.20

[Bagso]

Could we possibly move the Cargo Manager over to general pax route development......given recent developments the place would be like LHR within 12 months !

..at long last it seems we have somebody who has a glimmer of what is required to make money ....!


...although on second thoughts leave them in situ, the cargo traffic is much
more entertaining.......... [I]


Who is it by the way... anyone know their background etc ?

[spannersatcx]

don't think it's anything to do with good management! LHR won't accept anymore freighters as far as I'm aware. i've been told that when T5 opens we (CX) may not be allowed to fly our freighters to LHR anymore. So any cargo that needs to come to the UK will come in elsewhere, at the moment Manchester.

As for the cargo figures I don't think CX/KA give figures (commercially sensitivity) to the airport.

[andy mach 1]

Going on the times shown another destination looks likely on Mon Tue Thu Sat. We'll have to wait and see

[AldiAl]

It's just a pity that Oasis don't have a larger fleet otherwise we'd have a sure-fire winner to HKG from here!

[lagerlout]

@ at guess it still pales into insignificance to LPL's 20 Plus flights a week to Poland!

[eggc]

...just like LPL's zero flights to the US pale into insignificance against MAN's 7 a day !!

Your point is what exactly ?

[eggc]

More good cargo news from another reliable source...

From Wednesday 3rd October :-

Libyan Airlines A300-600F, LN2600/1 from/to Tripoli Arr 1500 dep. 1700.

Not sure of frequency (looks like weekly) or period of operation yet.

[Bagso]

and now Libyan Arab Cargo...

point taken re LHR but surley this cannot just be down to them blocking cargo flights, has there not been major restrictions in the past with reference to slots etc ?

OR have they indeed imposed some kind of blanket ban ..?

And what about Gatwick, Stansted is that not traditionally where these flights have ended up ?

It is about time as most produce is being manufactured up here anyway, and is simply being trucked South as rates were cheaper from Heathrow.

By my count we are getting a new freight carrier every 4 weeks...!

keep 'em coming !

[MUFC_fan]

...just like LPL's zero flights to the US pale into insignificance against MAN's 7 a day !!

Your point is what exactly ?


...London, Dubai etc.

LPL is nowhere near competing with MAN.

[lagerlout]

never said it was just pointing out that the majority of NW traffic to Poland will be going out LPL and not MAN! Thats it... not trying to start a my **** is bigger than yours argument!

[Scottie Dog]

Firstly to say that the Libyan Cargo is, according to my source, initially only for the month of October. Hopefully it may continue for a longer period.

Secondly it is regretable to here that Luxair are to discontinue their service at the end of October. Personally I am surprised that the service has lasted as long as it has, as the figures have been getting worse and worse on a monthly basis. Timings certainly are not good for the businessman and I am sure that they have been hit by the VLM service - albeit with a stop at LCY.

So we loose another carrier, but hopefully do not loose the passengers to any where else (no competition). LOT go, and are partially replaced by Centralwings. Sky Europe come off Krakow and are replaced by Centralwings - who I understand will shortly announce a 3 times weekly service to Poznan.

Okay, so Manchester does not offer 20 flights per week to Poland, but we will be offering 10 a week.

[dwlpl]

..... from the first week of the winter period the correct figure will be 34 flights per week on 8 routes from Liverpool.

[GLENO]

How many of them 34 flights a week form Liverpool and 10 from Manchester will be full???? anybody else think that there is a bit too much traffic??:ok:

Anybody know when Bmibaby's summer routes go on sale from Manchester?

[viscount702]

PAX -0.21

Freight +14.55

Freight doing extremely well but sadly PAX continue to decline and I see no change to the latter for the immediate future.

Viscount

[viscount702]

Does anyone know when BE will start basing E195 at Man and how many. I thought the first was to arrive this month but nothing showing up as yet as to the routes they will operate

Viscount

[jongeman]

viscount702 - the .21% decline is due to contraction of London routes and also the loss of some BA/BE routes, and I would have expected a far greater drop, had it not been for people trying to get away from the bloody dreadful summer we've all just had to suffer.

Hopefully we'll now start to see MAN passenger figures levelling off, and I wouldn't expect them to grow significantly for at least a couple of years.....it largely depends on the 'Liverpool effect' and there are plenty of expansion opportunities there.

Whether or not MAN should now embrace FR and EZY is another matter!

[lagerlout]

i know that Wizzair ex LPL have had some exceptional loads recorded .... though i do think 34 flts a week between wizzair, ryanair and easyjet is somewhat over egging the pudding ..... i expect it to level off soon after after the competition kicks in. Swap you five of them for a twice a day to LHR. ;-)

[eggc]

Another cargo snippet...but maybe this is just a one off ?

There is a Qatar A300-600F due tonight eta 2000 etd 2100 (QTR6056).

Anyone know anymore about its visit ?

[FlyZB]

After reading through recent posts, some updates:

Firstly regarding the terminals. All toilets across the 3 terminals are just about to be completely stripped out and remodelled (about time I hear you cheer!) Lets face it, they need doing! The work will be carried out in order with the most heavily used toilets being done first. Don't know about T1 & 3 but in T2, the arrivals loo's and those at Gates 211 and Immigration will be first on the list.

Work will start on the T2 retail and security development this month. The Atlantic Suite is now closed and all conference facilities will be moved over to the new airport hotel which is being built close to the existing Travelodge.

Approval has been given to revamp the T1 and T2 arrivals areas. Work on these will commence as soon as the departures redevelopment is near completion. The plans will be confirmed at a later date but I understand Spar, Boots and possibly M&S Simply Food will move into the arrivals halls.

Now some airline news/rumours. A cabin crew member I know who works for Jet2 reckons that there are still flights to be released for this winter, so anything that doesn't yet appear bookable on their website may not neccessarily have been dropped.

ZB have their Summer 2008 programme on sale. MJV goes daily and TFS increases to 9 x weekly. Looks like XRY has been dropped and IBZ is reduced to 3 x weekly. Although these flights are bookable, there has been no official announcement about MAN flights on their website so perhaps they are still tweaking the schedules.

And bmibaby should have their S08 flights on sale at the end of the month. Rumour is that they'll be acquiring additional aircraft for next summer so fingers crossed some new routes come to MAN and they don't just focus on BHX again.

[Momentary Lapse]

It's all very well saying MAN should embrace FR and EZY, presumably encouraging them to leave LPL. All that change, waste and duplication for little or no increase in capacity to/from Northern England. Change for change's sake.

Do FR's and EZY's passengers want to move from LPL to MAN? From a nice easy flat terminal to one where the car parks are miles away, there are loads of level changes and it's miles from check-in to the gate, not to mention the queues.

Why?

Just so MAN can increase its passenger numbers. It won't increase its profits because there's little profit per passenger from loco pax, because:

1 They're intra-European passengers, so there's no Duty Free revenue.
2 They'll be mostly off-peak departures, so the passenger charges will be low
3 Loco pax are more price-conscious than say charter passengers, and they travel light, so they won't spend much in the shops, cafes and bars, and certainly won't spend on high-return items like electricals or booze n fags because they're too bulky or heavy, and they can get them cheaper on the net or in Tesco anyway.

So more congestion for decreased profit per passenger. Hardly a good business decision, is it? The little remaining capacity should be reserved for high-profit long-haul far-east and US routes.

[Charlie Roy]

How many of them 34 flights a week form Liverpool and 10 from Manchester will be full????

This winter Dublin will have 74 weekly flights to Poland.
The Manchester / Liverpool catchment area is significantly larger than that of Dublin. So less than 50 weekly flights to Poland would seem to me like there's room for expansion.

Ryanair (Dublin to Poland: 38 flights)
Gdansk (3 x weekly)
Szczecin (2 x weekly)
Bydgoszcz (2 x weekly)
Poznan (3 x weekly)
Warsaw (7 x weekly)
Lodz (3 x weekly)
Wroclaw (5 x weekly)
Katowice (3 x weekly)
Krakow (7 x weekly)
Rzeszow (3 x weekly)

Centralwings (Dublin to Poland: 20 flights)
Gdansk (3 x weekly)
Szczecin (3 x weekly)
Warsaw (4 x weekly)
Wroclaw (3 x weekly)
Katowice (4 x weekly)
Krakow (3 x weekly)

Aer Lingus (Dublin to Poland: 16 flights)
Warsaw (6 x weekly)
Poznan (3 x weekly)
Krakow (7 x weekly)

[GLENO]

Yes, I can see that Dublin will also have a high number of flights......How many of them will be full?:ugh:

Anybody know any figures for the routes from Liverpool and Man?:ok:

[dwlpl]

Anybody know any figures for the routes from Liverpool and Man?

The numbers for scheduled pax for June;

ex Liverpool
GDANSK 5132
KATOWICE 5896
KRAKOW 11665
POZNAN 4049
WARSAW 6850
WROCLAW 3642
total 37234

exMAN
KRAKOW 2955
WARSAW 2900
total 5855

[GLENO]

Looks like the Polish routes do very well from Liverpool!!

[Ringwayman]

Provisional July stats show 3186 on MAN-Warsaw (51 flights? 62 per flight which I think is around 80% loads) with this being 28% up on July 2006, and 3342 on MAN-Krakow (26 flights, 128 per flight = 87% loads?)

[Ian Brooks]

I think with Centralwings being Polish that might well have an effect on the loads with most pax being Polish

Ian

[TechProblem]

In reply to a post by vistcount, there should be one based in OCT to run the MAN-SOU-JER-SOU-MAN route.

[Vuelo]

BE also to operate it on the BRU route apparently.

[Pizzaro]

Heard it will do charters at the weekend.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Thought I saw the flightplan for one today flying in from Exeter?????

[FlyZB]

Not sure what the rules are with regards to continuing onto a new thread so I'll hang fire, but can someone please consider starting up a Manchester 6 thread! This is becoming to pain to load up/find posts! Cheers :ok:

[Scottie Dog]

From the airport website - confirmation of plans for the new tower, to be in service by the end of 2009.

"Manchester Airport is to get a new £8 million Air Traffic Control tower.

Architects from around across the north west, UK and European Union, have been invited to put their names forward to be considered for the opportunity to design the new control tower.

The new structure will be built on the airfield to allow the air traffic controllers even better views of both runways and is expected to be more than 50 metres tall making it the highest structure at the Airport.

In the first stage of the process, the project to build a new tower has been published in the Official Journal of the European Union inviting architects to show an expression of interest in the scheme. A project team from the airport will now narrow down the field of applicants and choose a design and construction firm to lead the development.

The new tower will be home to the Air Traffic Control team at Manchester Airport, which is provided by NATS, the company that operates air traffic control services throughout the UK. It will be fitted with state-of-the-art air traffic control management systems to help the air traffic controllers manage current and future capacity.

Manchester Airport’s Director of Operations, Andrew Holl, said: “The current control tower has served the airport well since it was built over 45 years ago.

“However, we do need to build a new tower with the latest technology and closer to both our runways to cope with increased numbers of flights in and out of Manchester and this is the start of a process to find the right design and the right experts to do that for us.”

The new control tower is expected to be open for use towards the end of 2009."

[Suzeman]

From UK Airport News a couple of days ago. An interesting final sentence.....:E

Suzeman


Manchester Airport is using business intelligence software to help increase passengers spending in its shops, in order to replace revenue lost in landing fees because of the rise of low-cost airlines.

Lower landing fees for budget airlines, coupled with stricter security measures that reduce passengers' time in retail outlets, has hit the airports' margins. So the airport is now analysing retail data to determine spending trends and boost sales at airside shops.

Manchester Airport information services business consultant, Martin Bell, said retail data is valuable, but previous reporting methods were disparate and manual. He said: 'We are a data-rich company but were not using the information effectively. By consolidating the data into a single view, we can get a better insight into our passengers and make better business decisions.'

Analysing aviation data remains the priority. But combining it with retail and airport parking information gives a clearer view of passenger purchasing decisions, Bell said. He added: 'Now we can determine how long people spend airside and make more informed decisions on how we manage our retail area.'

'Airports have traditionally regarded retail as secondary to aviation, but we are under pressure because of the rise of low-cost carriers and we realise that we need to be more imaginative.'

[Ian Brooks]

Perhaps they are worried that Peel Holding are going to build an international airport at Barton with the terminal an extension of the Trafford centre

Ian

[Momentary Lapse]

The airport wants to tag and track every single passenger from as far away as possible (car park? train? remote check in? home check in?) right to the gate, with every move along the way - check in, security, which shops you visit in which order, the toilets, etc. They'll use an RFID tag in your ticket or boarding card to do it, with hundreds of readers all over the site, hidden in ceilings or behind walls.

If you fart, they'll know about it.

Will it cure the massive cures at security, or the dirty tables in the cafes, or the big holes in the apron? Will it make the staff genuinely engage in delivering decent customer service rather than make passengers feel they're an inconvenience? I wonder.

[Bagso]

BAA have FINALLY been forced to charge more relevant charges at STN
it may just be paper talk but apparently RYR and EZY are now looking to get out as most routes become uneconomic !

Any chance of moving some up here to MAN.....it's a lot of jets to find a home for..!

Also wonder how it will effect, the proposed new AA services if they have to pay full landing fees..?

Maybe STN will drop back behind MAN in terms of pax...?

[andy mach 1]

According to provisional stats for August 0.5% increase to 2,485,275. The first plus month for a while this year.

Andrew :ok:

[viscount702]

MAPLC figures show -0.21%. See my earlier post

[viscount702]

Swiss are to operate a service to GVA during ski season on Sunday. Showing on OAG

Also an additional service to BSL on Sunday. This is not yet showing but reported on another thread

Viscount

[Suzeman]

Anyone explain the discepancy in passenger figures for August ?? Was it really just up or just down? Are CAA and MAN figures looking at the same categories of passengers?

Any explanation gratefully received.

Suzeman

[Ringwayman]

Not really checked the comparisons between the CAA and MAN recently, but they've nearly always disagreed. Perhaps it's the transfer traffic that MAN includes but the CAA excludes?

Anyway, EK = 90% loads in August if my sums are correct.

[MUFC_fan]

So we may see an A380 on the route soon!:}

If not, surely another service, maybe a A332? Can we expect an EK cargo service considering what is happening at the moment at MAN?

[andy mach 1]

As stated these are provisional stats fromthe CAA. Their full stats are not released for a couple of months, however you are right these don't show transit pax. The provisional lists are updated over a period as some airports have not filed their numbers yet and also some routes i.e Ercan only show up in the provisional lists rather than the full lists.

On a different track the Virgin West Coast effect seems to be bottoming out as the provisional totals give a drop of a couple of thousands rather than the tens of thousands over recent months.

Andrew

[SOTV]

On a different track the Virgin West Coast effect seems to be bottoming out as the provisional totals give a drop of a couple of thousands rather than the tens of thousands over recent months.

Can I give a comment on this? As a train driver, although not for VWC, the prices charged for peak hours arrival at Euston are prohibitive for the majority of travellers. First class has less personal space than the normal business class on short haul flights. The 'free' food is of a standard lower than an economy charter flight. With the continuing upgrade of the Trent Valley lines there are often long stretches of track subject to speed restrictions, these lead to longer delays when approaching the bottlenecks near Euston.

If you are not responsible for paying for your journey then a flight to LHR or even STN with its good rail links would make sense. Given there could be available slots at Manchester do you think a dedicated business class flight to either would prove popular? I was thinking of the one class concept. Surely they could undercut VWC and provide complimentary onward transport by rail.

The Virgin first class return fare is £377. To arrive in Euston before 0900 the latest departure would be 0602.

Even a LoCo carrier must fall over at the prospect of an aircraft full of punters at £200 return.

Maybe I'm just being naive.

:}

[parky747]

Does anyone know if GB plan any further expansion at MAN?
Also it was indicated on a previous post that a MAN-MAD route is to be started, any info when and who will operate it?

[IB4138]

No wonder there are delays at security, as the boarding card inspection "operatives" in T3 at the entrance to scanning, are now wishing to inspect passports as well.

Reason....well after having your passport checked at check-in by the airline, you have to form a queue to get into security and you could have changed places with the person who checked in and we want to see ID. :ugh:

[Ringwayman]

Mustn't forget that VLM'as London City service saw an increase in passenger numbers; food for thought for Virgin Rail?

[SOTV]

With an out and back the same day for £172 and good flight times Virgin should start to take notice but I'm afraid their arrogance over pricing structures means they will not. I see many VWC/VXC trains carrying little more than fresh air due to their walk on fares.

:ugh::ugh:

[Momentary Lapse]

But at least the train doesn't require preposterous amounts of time for check in and security, and the rail stations at both ends are in the city centres not miles outside.

And the best way to get from Manchester City Centre to MAN? The train...

[Skipness One Echo]

Nor does London City, give it a try. Beats the train any day.

[Ringwayman]

We could see Air China operating scheduled passengers services from March 2009 as they have been allocated rights to a 7 weekly service to Beijing by the Chinese authorities. Perhaps we could see one of the CAA's Regional Fifth Freedom studies from a couple of years come to fruition: 3 weekly Beijing-Stockholm-Manchester by Air China.

[jongeman]

Momentary Lapse - it's doubtful that anyone contributing to pprune or any other aviation forum is going to prefer the train to flying from Wythenshawe International to Staines. Give me preposterous check-in queues and nightmare security any day!

[Going loco]

Everyone seems to have forgotton that August 2006 was when the UK air network ground to a halt due to the fears over a terrorist plot. London airports were badly affected and domestic services bore the brunt of cancellations. If MAN-London services are slightly down or level with last August, I wouldn't take that as anything other than confirmation that these routes are well and truly in the doldrums.
MAN-LCY looks like it grew by about 6 return tickets per day, so what's the big deal there?

[Momentary Lapse]

Having done the train to Euston, and flown to LHR, LGW and LCY, given the choice I'd do none of them and let whoever I was going to see, come to me.

Or cancel the meeting and go to the pub.

LCY is all very well if you want to be in that part of London. All that messing with the DLR is a bind.

London is a bind altogether, really.

[MANFlyer]

With the PITA stuff you have to deal with in UK airports these days the train is a no brainer if you have easy access to a WCML station. Not all MAN pax do.

Going back to my pet peeve - increasing LCC activity and the decline (or lack of increase at least) of full service carriers at MAN. Having just done a trip to FCO on LS, it reminded me why I dislike LCC's.

I did at least find out one interesting fact on the return leg. All the Purser's/IFS/CSM's on the 300+ flights in the last 4 years on SQ-BA-BD-TG-UA-AC-MH-NH-QF-NZ-LH-SK-KL-AF-OZ-VN-EK-KQ etc etc were all WRONG, and my specifically-bought-as-it-is-inside-gauge hand luggage is in fact too big, and needs to go in the hold.

:mad:

[Zooty]

MANFlyer, LS do have a smaller hand luggage size limit than everyone else. From their website:

"You are permitted one small piece of hand baggage of not more than 10kg and dimensions not in excess of 46x30x23cm (these dimensions are different to those stated on the DFT website, due to size constraints on our aircraft)."

[Suzeman]

SOTV

You are being very selective with your train info. True, if you want to arrive in Euston BEFORE 0900 you must get the 0602 train which arrives at 0827. If you get the 0635 it arrives AT 0900 whilst the 0705 which only stops at Stockport arrives at 0910 - 2h 5 mins chock to chock.

I can today buy a first class open single ticket for all of these trains tomorrow for £168.50 (therefore an open return is £337) or an advance first single for £126.50 on the 0602 or £146.50 on the 0635. Same range of fares are available for a return leaving Euston between 1700-1800 tomorrow.

And I always have the option of standard class if I want to cut the costs as businesses do - an open return is £219. Advanced purchase tonight for tomorrow in standard class, using any of those trains except the 0705 ex MAN is £148.50.

With the airlines the prices for a day in London tomorrow with approx the same timings are BA £338/318, bmi £298 and VLM £265. No way of reducing these at such a late stage.

At the end of the day your choice will be dependent on your origin and destination and other personal choices, but if I am going to London, I would take the train any day - once you are on it you can do what you want - get up, walk around, work, read, sleep, watch the world go by. Oh - and you don't have to worry about the size of your handbaggage or what is in it..:)

But ML had the best solution - make them come to you for a change cos going to London is a bind.

Grump over - off for me tea.

Suzeman

[Scottie Dog]

Just been announced that Eastern are to return to the Stansted route with effect from 29th October.

3 flighst per weekday with manchester based J41.

Welcome back.

[virginblue]

MAN-CGN by TUIFly now released for summer 08. After some rumours about a reduction of the route it is to remain at 6x/weekly.

Mondays and Tuesdays now morning departures.

[Vuelo]

ILO LS' expansion at LBA, are we going to see anything new coming to MAN from LS this winter or next summer?

[Playamar2]

VirginBlue

Cologne is currently 5 days a week (non-ops Tues & Sat), so we gain 1 flight. The downside, no Hanover flights after 31 March. Stuttgart down to 4 per week, Mon & Tue am (0755 arrival) and Thu & Sun evening (1955 arrival).

Grand total down from the current level of 15 per week to 10 from next April.

Playamar2

[ETOPS]

Suzeman

2h 5 mins chock to chock.


Shouldn't that be "buffer to buffer" :ok:

[Adola69]

Looking at the booking site over at Jet 2 , It looks as if the AMS service is pulled during January 2008. I have just tried to book a day return, and no flights are available. Tried a few alternative dates through until May and the same result. I thought Jet 2 were supposed to be on the up at Man? - doesn't appear so?:confused:

[jongeman]

Precisely what's going on at Jet2 regarding MAN is anybody's guess.

I don't know if MAN-AMS is being pulled or not, but I'm booked on it in mid January, so who can say?:eek:

[Curious Pax]

For some reason LS always seem to put the AMS flights on sale quite late in the day - seem to remember it was well into October last year before the second half of the winter appeared.

[Vuelo]

I really hope I am wrong, but I just have the feeling that MAN isn't working for LS and they are downsizing considerably here to concentrate at LBA. Let's hope not.

[SOTV]

Suzeman.

Points taken. (No pun intended). There must remain the business case for both air and rail to provide a lo/co carrier on these routes subject to slots/paths being available. No doubt the screams of BA and Virgin would be heard and competition stifled.


but if I am going to London, I would take the train any day - once you are on it you can do what you want - get up, walk around, work, read, sleep, watch the world go by.


Not if you are driving the bloody thing you wont.

:}:}

[FlyZB]

Jet2 Amsterdam flights haven't been doing well for a while now. Not sure about yields but loads are very poor, averaging between 60 and 70 per flight which is worse than Berlin, Barcelona and Prague which have already been dropped.

[Rob Courtney]

Just booked a flight over to the Isle of man on 2nd of Oct with Flybe and on the ticket it tells me the aircraft being used on the sector is an ATR42. I know Flybe have been checking their Q400s but is it correct that they have loaned in ATRs to take up the slack or is it an intrim measure as they draw down the 145s

Rob

[jongeman]

It's good that Jet2 have cancelled Prague because there was always the possibility that CSA might have pulled out. Jet2 are guilty of competing with the established carriers, chasing too few passengers and then when they scrap routes, MAN is left with no service at all (Berlin, which now joins Madrid and Geneva).

[SkinHeadFlyer]

....but there is no competition from MAN to TXL/SXF and Jet2 still can't make a go of it. So disappointing - Jet2 are bad news for MAN.

OK you can do indirect like KLM via AMS, etc but thats a ball-ache.

Looks like we're stuck with sleasyJet from LPL if we wanna direct flight to Berlin :uhoh:

[FlyZB]

I also think that Jet2 are guilty of not giving things a chance. If a route isn't working as well as they'd have hoped, they seem to just pull it rather than decreasing frequency or improving timings. Barcelona is a good example. Any idiot can see that a 7pm departure from MAN isn't in the slightest bit appealing for travellers. Why not attempt to change the timings rather than just drop it? Perhaps a little difficult with the slot restrictions at BCN but I'm sure other slots are available. And SXF didn't do all that badly. Averaging around 90 pax per flight. If they reduced frequency on this route, then surely that would work better for them than pulling it altogether.

There's a lot of routes that they're just not willing to try out in the winter at all. At the end of every summer season, NCE and VLC are dropped completely. Why not try these out during the winter, maybe 2 x weekly. I'm sure the demand is there but they just don't seem interested in trying to make certain routes work once the lucrative summer months come to an end.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

They were running ATRs before the Q400 groundings.

Have leased a plain white one from Interstare Airlines (PH-) for a few months and have also had Avanti Express (D-) covering at shorter notice - possibly for tech issues.
The 145s have started leaving MAN already for Eastern Europe, so maybe these leases will increase.

They have also been borrowing 737s and 146s as well in the past few weeks.

[Rob Courtney]

Cheers AWR, will miss the 145s, great fun on such a short hop

[MAN Guy]

Looking at Jet2's offerings on their site for next summer looks like Manchester is currently earmarked for 9 sunshine routes only.....very disappointing indeed

Surely it must be time for somebody to come in and have a committed stab at a decent European network from MAN? There are now gaping holes in the European network.... Madrid, Vienna, Berlin, Tallinn, Riga, Geneva (a decent year round offering might be nice?!), some decent competition on the BCN route might be good and also KL will soon have the MAN-AMS route to themselves.

Anybody got any rumours or news on any positives in the pipeline for MAN for winter 07 or summer 08? We desperately need some!

[Ringwayman]

I don't know about you, but flying MAN-Geneva on a 777 sounds quite appealing. This is currently available on Saudia. Okay, it's only twice a week at the moment but still, can't complain.

VLM are offering a further 8 MAN-London City-Luxembourg services per week - they've stated that they've carried over 3,300 passengers from MAN to LUX since they began the through route 6 months ago. DOn't know the impact on the frequency of MAN-London City but I think it's safe to assume that there will be none.

[MAN Guy]

Yes I must admit a hop over to GVA on the Saudi 777 would be quite an experience!

I just think its such a shame that BA cut and run saying they couldn't compete in the regions partly due to the loco expansion, but now the loco's have a good playing field at MAN, none of them seem able to cobble together a decent network of European flights mixing both the sunshine and city destinations. Jet2 seem to be going for it at LBA, BMIbaby are doing the same at BHX, FlyBe have hardly thrown all their weight into MAN, all they seem to have done is trim some old BACON stuff and add a few French regionals.

Anyone got any thoughts on who or what might be the answer here?

[SkinHeadFlyer]

I guess you've answered the question yourself...

Add in 'The Orange One' and that 'Irish One' flying from LPL, and you can see MAN is surrounded by lo-cost at LPL, BHX & LBA.

Maybe they've just given up on European cities and are looking at stuff further afield and 'around the Med'. :{

Unless a new lo-cost enters the market up't north or LPL burns to the ground, then MAN has missed the boat.

Pity, decent airport - crap management only interested in empire building (EMA, etc). Maybe they should have bid for LBA and shut it down! :E

[anotherspaceman]

BA Connect were doing OK on all the previously mentioned routes with a 49 seat aircaft and good load factors, regularity and service. Then Jet2 came in, undercut them with rediculously unsustainable prices, raised the load factor a bit but not the yield. They could not fill a 737 never mind a 757 or make either pay. BA Connect had to pull off the routes which have now been dumped by Jet2. Winner - nobody, loser Jet2, BA Connect and primarily the passenger. Flybe may have a go at some of these routes when they get their fleets sorted out. Perhaps the passengers can also learn a lesson here - a bit of customer loyalty can keep a route in existance. I doubt it though, generally the cheapest ticket wins.

[jongeman]

SkinHeadFlyer - I'm pretty sure that Jet2 started SXF at the same time that BA flew to TXL, which was obviously not going to survive. MAN-TXL has been flown by BA for decades, it once routed through HAJ when I used it in 1990.
From now on, I'm not worried about having to pay up to travel to where I want and need to go. I wanted to go to Berlin in Feb, and I've found a fare with SN for £149, and later on in Aug I'll be going to GVA possibly on SV or maybe AF.:ok: