MANCHESTER - 5

[Up up and away]

Thanks for the replies and info.

:ok:

[GAZIN]

Can anyone tell me how many flights a day Delta have into Man & whether they have any evening or night movements.
Thanks
GAZIN

[spanishflea]

Just the two, ATL and JFK, both operate at "normal" morning times.

There are no afternoon/evening US movements at MAN (yet).

[GAZIN]

OK thanks :ok:
Look out for those Purple MD11's Aug/Sept time:)

[TURIN]

PURPLE!!!????/:confused:

Ok, I'm game who is it this time?

Fed-Ex?

Thai? (again).:rolleyes:

[Ian Brooks]

Won`t carry many pax!

Ian

[GAZIN]

They wont be carrying passengers & they will be heading west;)

[Scottie Dog]

That's interesting Gazin. The only thing that I had seen before was that they were looking at heading in a south-easterly direction for about 250 miles, and having a couple of feeders into MAN from UK points!!

Let's see what happens, after all it has been talked about previously and nothing has happened.

More interesting will be the results of the IATA Scheduling Confetrence that was held between 2nd-5th June, and with a slot return deadline of 31st August.

Scottie Dog

[pwalhx]

FedEx have had slots before and returned them, ast year I believe wasn't it. They do currently operate a feeder flight.

[IB4138]

My son used to work for Fedex.

It has always been known that they were looking to establish a future hub at Manchester. So perhaps the time has come?

[edmond64]

I have also known for a while that they were looking into flights from Man as I used to know a planning manager from one of FEDX companies.

[MUFC_fan]

The next Minneapolis!;)

[Fuel Boy]

Maybe they could use BA's old maint. hanger for sorting, palleting, etc, etc ...
It would look good purple!:)

[MUFC_fan]

Does anybody know if any operators from MAN offer first class or the equivalent. I know that VS, CO, DL, US etc offer business class equivalent, but do any offer first class.

Cheers.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Pretty sure SQ do, and maybe EK as well?

[TURIN]

US Air do but only about 6 or so seats.

[Vuelo]

What's this big announcement everyone is talking about today, that is supposed to be happening this week? A bew carrier?

[jongeman]

Yes I heard that too, it's supposed to involve 'several' Asian cities.

[20Legend]

Asian, as in Japanese or Hong Kong/China or we talking Indian?

Ian

[eggc]

Could it be Air Asia ?

[john11]

might it be a flight to hong kong?

[pwalhx]

I am becoming cynical, have heard of these big announcements so many times and nothing happens, so am trying not to get my hopes up but Hk would be good for me.

[spannersatcx]

might it be a flight to hong kong? If it is it's not with Cathay.

[FFHKG]

Could this simply be EK going 3X daily or QR going daily, giving much better connections through their home bases to cities on their ever increasing Asian networks? QR have just gained traffic rights to Australia, EY have also been given increased traffic rights, whilst EK are increasing frequency to PEK 12x per week from July

[Scottie Dog]

Whilst I appreciate that this is a rumours forum (as well as news), is it not time that we waited until an official announcement is made - rather than continuing to extol the wishes that certain Far East carriers served Manchester?
After all, with all the gossip on other threads, could this even be the long expected :rolleyes: launch of an Aer Lingus base at our beloved Ringway!!
Time will tell, and patience is a virtue. :)
Scottie Dog

[MUFC_fan]

Does anybody know anything about AB pulling out of MAN?

APPARENTLY (according to another website) AB are to pull their HAM, Paderborn and STN routes from this winter. Any news?

Cannot find any news on it yet. AB havn't released their full W07 programme, so unsure.

Cheers.

[Vuelo]

There are a few strange things happening at MAN at the moment. Jet2 seem to be axeing their BCN service on 04/09, very few of their routes are on sale for winter, neither are BE's. AB haven't really had their heart in it at MAN if you ask me. PAD has been a good load factor though, usually 100+ on each flight.

[MUFC_fan]

You have seemed to mention some of the loco carriers on MAN. If LPL took the same you view as you, there would be no passengers left at the airport!

Alot of loco airlines will not launch their whole W07 timetable until July/August time. Alot of the charter and traditional carriers launch before this, such as TOM, FCA and BA.

I'm sure LS and BE will have a full schedule up and running before children are back at school in September! AB maybe less so.

[Vuelo]

I have no doubt about it, but the fact remains that FR and U2 winter scheds have been on sale for a few weeks now, so no wonder MAN will lose out if its carriers don't get in on the act earlier.

Nice to see the T1 redevelopment coming on, wandered round today to see the new area and looks like one hell of an improvement....roll on the next phase!

[MUFC_fan]

Sorry, didn't realise that U2 and FR had all their seats on sale.

Cheers, I was waiting for them to release flights so I can book a trip in February!:}

[FlyZB]

Regarding the Jet2 Barcelona flights, is it not just a case of the winter schedule not being on sale yet? Having said that the loads have been pretty poor, probably due to the poor timings. ZB pax loads have been relatively unaffected by the addition of the Jet2 service, seems most people would rather travel at a more sociable hour. BCN has surprisingly struggled in recent years. Baby and Iberia both pulled off the route a couple of years ago and for such a popular business/leisure destination you would expect numerous daily flights to be filling without a problem. For some reason it seems like Monarch are the only carrier that can make it work and in which case they should consider going double daily if they can acquire the slots.

[Mr A Tis]

Yes, the Jet2 BCN timings are pants. No use for any business travelers & not too popular for the tourist.
Iberia always carried healthy Y and C class loads.
Monarch offer better times & of course since the Baby & Iberia days, Easy Jet offer pretty cheap (usually cheaper than ZB) double daily LPL-BCN with good timings.

[TURIN]

Yes I know it's all been said before back in January but it was rumour then...

Fact.

SV124 DEP MAN 1400hr Monday 2nd July.

SV122 DEP MAN 1400hr Friday 6th July.

B777-200 (GE90)

:ok:

[eu01]

A new Polish destination should be announced at MAN on Monday. It's... well, a tough name - BYDGOSZCZ - flights starting October 2007. While the route will not be served by FR, the carrier's identity is not yet 100% sure, do you know more?

[jongeman]

I thought that only Ryanair and LOT flew to Bydgoszcz.

It's pronounced 'BID-GODZH', with the ZH pronounced like Zoosh, as in 'Zoosh it up', and not like 'ZEUS' the Greek God......!

[Ian Brooks]

Centralwings Maybe?

[Vuelo]

http://abtn.co.uk/Thomsonfly_goes_to_Israel

Great news for Manchester as scheduled services to TLV return.

[pwalhx]

So out of interest what happened to the big announcement last week? Plus the Polish rooute on Monday, have I missed them.

[eu01]

Concerning the Polish route, I'd say that obviously Bydgoszcz Airport just would like to brag about the new connections but still cannot reveal more details. The information given to the press on Monday was very scanty. "This month the airport will sign a deal with an [undisclosed] airline (new in Bydgoszcz) that will start flying to two new destinations: Paris Beauvais and Manchester in England (twice a week, beginning end October). The tickets sale starts in July".

[MUFC_fan]

Central wings.

[pwalhx]

Is that a question MUFC fan or a statement?

No information then I guess on the longhaul from anyone.

[MUFC_fan]

Well, it is a question really, but it seems that, unless SkyEurope are to set up shop at the airport, it will be Central wings.

Any others?

[HOVIS]

I heard the other day Emirates are starting a 3rd daily arriving at man in the early hours. Well it is a rumour board innit? :suspect:

[Vuelo]

More likely to be EY going double daily I would say, or even QR.

Looking forward to SV's arrival on Friday!

[MUFC_fan]

Expecting 733ER for Etihad and A346 from QR before the end of the year if not going double 332/3 daily!:}

Also, new Malaysian LCC with it's Airbus models. Personally, I think MAN is in for a major spur in long haul over the next two years as it fights to regain 3rd spot in UK and achieve it's current future goal of 2nd by 2030.:D

Anyway, certainly hope so...

[UFGBOY]

is that a pink porcine object flying over or a MAN airport security manager doing nothing as usual!!

[Vuelo]

MAN looks to be still in the mix as regards AAX:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=9285

[MANFlyer]

MUFC Fan, I'd be interested to know on what you base the following comment ? : 'Expecting 733ER for Etihad and A346 from QR before the end of the year if not going double 332/3 daily'

I think this is more someone's (cloud 22) wishlist than an expectation.

There is a reason why there is a lack of First Class on long haul carriers out of MAN.....

[pwalhx]

I can only comment from the Cargo side regarding rumours or as SLF on frequent overseas trips.

Cargo wise there has been for some time comments from EK that they are considering a 3rd daily flight from Manchester and subject to availability of aircraft it is very likely.

Also from what I hear bigger aircraft or increased frequency are not out of the question from QR or EY.

From the SLF point of view, I have flown recently with both EK and QR and with EK in particular it has been quite difficult to get Business Class seats on the Manchester flight. QR was not as difficult but Business was quite full.

Whilst the above is not definitive, in MUFC fan's defence his comments and that of cloud may have been 'wish list' but carry a vein of truth.

With regard to 1st class flights there may not be a demand from Manchester but despite many posts I from experience would say there is a demand for business class seats from Manchester.

[spanishflea]

Business Class demand? Absolutely. Look at the US routes for that too. BA's JFK is always pretty full. Take a look at the make up of AA's ORD service, and I think most on here would be pleasantly surprised how full the Business cabin is, with numerous companies in the north having very lucrative regular traffic back and forth.

First Class demand? I really don't think so. This is a significantly limited market even in London.

[MANFlyer]

I seriously doubt there was 'vein of truth' in it, more an 'I wish..'. If there is some truth, I'd be interested in hearing a source for it.

In fairness a couple of the wishes on it may come true, as you never know what's coming in aviation. But QR ain't going to be sending their 3 class A346's into MAN.

It's patently obvious there is demand for Business Class ex-MAN, but I never mentioned this. My point was the total lack of a market for a true First product, and thus no QR 346's. If MH had accepted this early enough we may been able to support a swap to a 2 class 772 instead of losing the service altogether.

I know SQ for one are doing excellent in Business (Raffles) Class into MAN, so much so that four times already this year I have not been able to get on SQ328 in Raffles, and that's as a PPS. As a result of this, SQ locally have asked the powers that be for a second flight 3 times a week, preferably Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It's unlikely to happen in the near future due to lack of aircraft but at least the request is in.

[Ringwayman]

I'm sure SQ came out publically about going to 10 weekly 18 months ago, if "passenger demand" was maintained.

Isn't SV meant to be starting their route tomorrow? At least I've seen some blurb for the service with that date listed!

[spannersatcx]

Fact.

SV124 DEP MAN 1400hr Monday 2nd July.

SV122 DEP MAN 1400hr Friday 6th July.

B777-200 (GE90)

Fact SV121 STA1130 ETA1715 22nd June, off to a great start then!

[Alan Tracey]

Does anyone know who is the handling agent???

[Vuelo]

Servisair and SV have traffic rights between MAn and GVA, £99 return!

[spanishflea]

That could make for a very interesting and unusual weekend break!

[Mr A Tis]

..and for those enquiring about "First class" from Manchester, the Saudia B777 is showing as three classes. First, Business & Guest class.

[The Real Slim Shady]

I am told that the Airblue 321 blew a donk on take off from ISB and the flights for the next 3 days have been cancelled as no replacement is available.

[MUFC_fan]

Award winning low fares airline Monarch has successfully seen off a third airline on the Manchester to Barcelona route as a result of its low fares, high quality service and convenient flight times.
Monarch’s daily scheduled flights to Barcelona were launched in November 2003, in direct competition with Iberia, who were the legacy carrier on the route, plus BMIBaby, who also launched services in the same year. Both carriers subsequently withdrew from the route with Monarch operating as the sole carrier for a number of years.
In March 2007 however, Jet2 introduced flights between the two cities to compete head-to-head with Monarch. Despite only operating on the route for three months Jet2 are withdrawing services and have taken flights off-sale from September 2007.
Monarch’s managing director, Liz Savage commented on the news, “The launch of a new carrier on a route is great for consumers as it provides a wider selection of fares and flight times between the competing airlines. Marketshare statistics for the Manchester to Barcelona route reflect however that after initial interest in Jet2’s flights, their passenger numbers have been dropping as customers return to fly with Monarch. It is a great indicator to Monarch that is offering its customers what they want – low fares and a great level of service.”


Good news for ZB but not for MAN or LS, does anybody know what is replacing these routes?

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

It certainly departed MAN a lot earlier than the 1715 you had it in to arrive at.

I'd put it sometime between 1530 and 1630 local that she climbed out.

[TURIN]

Fact SV121 STA1130 ETA1715 22nd June, off to a great start then!
I know I feel stupid now!:}
Funny though that they were so desparate not to upset too many spotters and dignitaries they flew an empty 777 up from LHR which arrived at mid day (ish) .:ugh:
Money to burn these Saudi chaps. :rolleyes:


AWR, the scheduled one arrived at 1730 local. :ok:

[Vuelo]

Rumour has it LS are to go 2x dailu on the CDG route, though I would prefer to see a MAD service.

[Mr A Tis]

Yes I agree, LS should be on the MAD route. Not long ago we had 2 x RJs & 1 x CRJ a day on the route...and now none.
LS must realise though,a MAD service should be aimed as much at business customers as leisure traffic. BCN should have been the same -
ie not the silly times the BCN was scheduled for - no use for any business customers. There are alot of industrial/commercial links between Manchester & Barcelona. I know several people who will still travel via LHR to fly BA "C" rather than Monarch economy.
Easy seem to make a double daily BCN & a daily MAD work very well from LPL

[MUFC_fan]

I wonder if they will test drive the MAD service instead of the BCN service from September.

Yes, the times are unattractive, but they don't have ZB as competition or anybody else for that matter.

[chiglet]

Servisair and SV have traffic rights between MAn and GVA, £99 return
What a/c do Servisair operate on this route? :E
watp,iktch

[wizo]

whats a donk ?

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Engine.


Turin - Can't believe they threw the LHR machine up there.

Face-saving on a grand scale indeed.

[Vuelo]

Believe me, with a full civic reception, MAplc directors , representatives of Saudia and the Saudi enbasy all at the airport to mark the occasionm, there was plenty of face saving to be done!

[MUFC_fan]

What happened to the visit of the A380 to MAN. It has visited the MUC so why not MAN, it this because none of the a/c will be based at the airport?

If it was to visit MAN in the near future before entering service I will be queing at 6am to get into the AVP!:}

[pwalhx]

Why because it went to MUC would it come to MAN, it did a flypast at the BAe plants in the UK

[spannersatcx]

you're not missing much.:sad:

[MUFC_fan]

I was just mentioning MUC as it seems to be an airport that LH may use their A380s, whereas MAN will see less of them, but was still wondering why there has not been a visit to the North West airport which was apparently supposed to happen back in May?

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Have they definitely got rights to be able to fly passengers MAN-GVA-MAN and let them deplane?

No travel sites seem to flag up SVA for direct flights on the route and the Airport website doesn't say that SVA cover Geneva as a destination.

[Vuelo]

Yes, SV definitely have rights according to their station manager, bookable through the sales office.


On a different issue, who applied for slots at the recent slot conference? Did KU or CX re-apply for a HKG service?

[spannersatcx]

CX re-apply for a HKG service no not that I am aware of.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Two items from the latest "Travel Trade Gazette":

1. JET2 proposes to increase the MAN-based fleet to "eleven or twelve" units for Summer 2008 from nine based in Summer 2007. The additional capacity will be aimed predominantly towards sunshine leisure destinations compatible with Jet2holidays. Type split and actual destinations not stated.

2. GB AIRWAYS Winter 2007/8 scheduled programme from MAN is to include services to Innsbruck and Malta. The airline will not resume services from EMA and BRS to TFS. Perhaps the based units will be completely devoted to MAN services again?

And finally - not from TTG - Singapore cargo airline JETT8 has at last commenced its long awaited MAN service, which should operate twice weekly. Nice to move one from the 'rumours' to the 'news' category occasionally. Good things come to those who wait and all that.

By the way, any further news on the MAN-KRK route? Whilst SkyEurope plans to increase MAN-BTS to daily this Winter, the airline is apparently set to close its Krakow hub to reduce dependence on Eastern Europe. The KRK route always seemed pretty popular from MAN? One for Jet2 to consider if ESK does withdraw perhaps (I believe EXS/LS fly LBA-KRK) ... and MAD would be nice too!

Cheers, SHED.

[bigbusdriver06]

Manchester Airport Plc, I know that you are very busy with security stuff at the moment, but maybe you could just pause for breath and objectively look at a decision you've made over the weekend?

You are still allowing cars (including Mercs and 4x4's) right up to Terminal One, but you won't let the staff bus any nearer than the train station. Just how many busbombs have we had in the last few days? And are not the staff buses reasonably secure, since they run 24/7 with little chance of being loaded with petrol cans and butane cannisters?

Or have you decided to economise on the service still further, and this is the opportunity you've been waiting for? A year ago you blew a fanfare over the new 7.5 minute service, now it's back to 10 minutes, soon it will be to the station only. Let the airline and handling staff walk, after all MAPlc get the best parking spaces near their offices.

[Momentary Lapse]

Looks like your prayers are answered:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6258318.stm

[bigbusdriver06]

If only!

Despite that newsclip, at lunchtime cars were still dropping off outside the T1 Jet2 check-in but the staff carpark bus was banned.

Nothing can get close to T2, and only buses can get to the train station. Perhaps MAPlc want T1 demolished? (Sorry, bad taste suggestion)

[lexxity]

Sorry for slight thread hijack here, currently on days off, until Wednesday am. Am I reading this correctly? Staff buses only as far as the rail link? That's insane I work in T3 and our offices are in Olympic! Please pm me.

[FlyZB]

The staff bus will only run from the station for at least the next 2 days from what I have heard today. This is not the decision of MAPlc but the advice which has been given and enforced by special branch. Why there are cars being permitted into the ground level drop off area in T1 I do not know but this is clearly a break down in communications somewhere.

The roads directly outside T2 have been closed to all vehicles since Saturday evening and black cabs & private hire have been using the bowling green car park. Car park shuttle buses and hotel courtesy buses are using the station.

Not an ideal situation for both staff and passengers but one I believe is neccessary in the current climate. Give it a few days and, unless anything else happens in the meantime, it will all calm down and services should start returning to normal.

[Bagso]

Cars should not be allowed so close without some mandatory checks even when this does all calm down...? Even a simple stop and visual check !

Surley it must be difficult to hide gallons and gallon of petrol and gas cylinders.

I am not en expert on car bomb technique but would not road calming/bumps 100 yds away on the approach roads help and be cost effective ?

Would not a severe jolt set a bomb off ?

...there again if they pop 25 mile down the road they could drive in the back way to Stanlow Oil Refinery, leave a bomb and be out of the country by the time it went off!

.....no security on the side lanes and the fence is all hanging down...only contains 30% of all UK oil !

[tallseabird]

Any ideas whats wrong with the MYT A330 MAN-BFS-CUN delayed indefinately?

[busz]

Taxiied in past it today at about 12.30l, looked like there were a lot of new wheels being fitted.

[lexxity]

First of all if this is in the wrong thread, then please do move it.

Manchester Airport has completely lost the plot with vehicular access to the airport.

Staff who park in staff west and ride the bus in are now taken only as far as the train station and then have to walk the rest of the way in. This is fine except that public vehicles are still being allowed to proceed past Olympic house, where the bus usually drops off for the T1/T3 area, and into the short stay which is attached to T1! This is adding at least another 20 minutes to our day and is rather annoying and makes no sense when passengers are allowed much nearer the terminal in their private vehicles.

Passengers using T2 are not allowed to drop off/pick up outside T2, but can still park in the attached short stay.

:ugh::mad:
Passengers using T3 are now to be dropped off on the roundabout next to the perimeter fencing which has a very large a/c parked directly opposite it everyday.

Security in T3 this morning were made to allow access to T1 passengers as there was a backlog due to a full evacuation of T1 (kitchen fire, nothing sinister).

Manchester is becoming a complete nightmare to work at. When will the daft bus policy change? Why not have pax park in what is now staff west and bus them in? Why not left staff, who should obviously be safer, park in the short stay?

[MancRed]

What a joke today at west gate only 3 lanes open.....waiting over 30 mins to get through............:mad:

I know there is a security alert at present but there antics today were way over the top there seem to be more staff stood about talking than actually assisting the ones checking under bonets in boots...come on guys:ugh:
J

[lexxity]

I've actually started a thread on this in R&N. It is a shambles! People allowed to drop off on the perimeter opposite stand 55 in T3. Good call guys.:hmm:

[squeakyunclean]

and yesterday at 6.30pm there was a 'Lambs Coaches' coach happily parked up outside Olympic House in the space reserved for the extreme security risk that is the staff bus. :D

[flyinthesky]

Since when does this shambles of an airport, ever care about the staff who have to use it each day?

Security at MAN is a joke, they target the wrong people. The whole response to the GLA bombing has been a typical knee jerk reaction, with someone sitting in Olympic House proclaming that they are now bomb proof!! To stop the staff bus at the railway station whilst still allowing the public up close is tantamount to criminal.

Today, I received an email from my company asking me to sign a form that has been sent by the Pass Office at MAN. On it, it tells me that I must inform the powers that be if I see anything suspicious. Failure to sign and return by the 27/7 WILL result in cancellation of my ID. I ask you. How does signing a useless bit of paper make me any more vigilant.

Security in the UK is run by jobworths who have as much idea as a dead cod. Perhaps all staff at MAN should go on strike for a day during the summer until the airport wakes up and smells the coffee.

MAN is a tired, badly designed, leaking sh**hole of an airport, and they still have the gall to describe themselves as the worlds favourite. Yeah right, they are really good when compared to Vancouver or Changi!!!

Rant over

[Mr.Brown]

Isn't it quite obvious that staff, who undergo security checks numerous times a day and have to undergo disclosure checks even if their moving companies on the same airport, pose much more of a security risk than Joe public who's just got off a plane from Baghdad.

[fireflybob]

If it's really that bad why doesn't anyone take any organised ACTION?

As I have said before on these forums if workers in other industries were treated in this manner they would be out on strike post haste! You would then see things change VERY rapidly!

Sorry but as pilots we only have ourselves to blame for allowing this sort of situation to develop!

[ZeBedie]

None of the changes to vehicle access at MAN would stop a determined ram-raid bomber, as far as I can see. It's just window dressing, again.

But don't criticise Manchester Airport - they have a wonderful collection of plastic buckets and they aren't afraid to flaunt them:yuk:

[cargo boy]

Security in the UK is run by jobworths who have as much idea as a dead cod
Now that's an insult to dead Cod. The security staff management and especially the decision makers at the airports as well as the dictat makers at the DfT are a hopeless bunch reactionsts whose collective knowledge about securing airports was probably purchased as a package from one of those internet degree offers.

Sadly, the situation is hopeless. We cannot organise 'strike action' as it takes too long and isn't fair on our employers or our customers. Not until the employers actually get their acts together and approach the airports directly, themselves will anything ever be done.

As has been mentioned many times in the past, we are simply spectators at 'Terror Theatre'. The lunatics have taken over the asylum and they have handed the terrorists a win with their home goal. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot. Just check out the people who manage the security at our airports. Pathetic! :ugh:

[Vuelo]

What new food outlets are to be opened on the upper level of T1 which opens shortly? McDonalds and Pizza Express are rumoured.

[helen0888]

As staff at T1, and someone who gets dropped off to work by family; as opposed to using the staff bus and my own vehicle, the nearest realistic location I could find to be dropped off was ground level outside the Radisson hotel. I then had to walk the rest of my way to work at airside T1 using the moving walkway, adding a nice fifteen extra walking minutes for me to be late to said location of employment.

This wasn't as bad as the Saturday the incident actually happened at Glasgow; the staff inside the airport had absolutely no idea of any occurences outside of the airport or that any kind of security level had been altered. The first thing I knew about any kind of terrorist incident was when I got home and switched on Sky News; this was after I'd spent twenty minutes in the pouring rain trying to find where my family member had parked after our usual meeting place had greeted them with flashing lights and a very nasty reception from a police officer telling them to move on.

There was no communication whatsoever to airport staff to alert them of any kind of security alert going on.

[TSR2]

Went to pick-up family member arriving at Terminal 2 this evening. This was my first visit to the airport since the tightening of the security relative to vehicle access.

The new arrangements are well signed and friendly security staff on duty to guide vehicles in the appropriate direction through the multi-storey car park. The whole process was straight forward and quite efficient.

I can only report the situation as I found it but must say I was quite impressed given the relative short notice for implementation.

Well done MAPLC and thanks to the security staff.

[Irish Grinch]

Anyone here about a fire at Gate 23?

[AUTOGLIDE]

Was reading (in the MEN) that Peel Holdings have suggested the airport be sold to fund the public transport improvements in Greater Manchester, instead of a congestion charge. It is alledged the airport reduces council tax payments in G.M by up to 20 percent in 'some areas'. Personally I think it may be a good idea, MAPLC are always complaining they have no money and it is, with the exception of T2/station now a bigger dump than LHR, which I never thought I would see happen. Maybe a change of ownership will finally bring in the investment money needed.

[Curious Pax]

Peel Holdings own a number of rival airports including Liverpool. Something of a vested interest don't you think? The profit that the owning councils get is no different to a private company making a profit - and they don't seem to spray money about either!

[Freeway]

Spoke to a driver on the SW bendy bus today, re the current ridiculous arrangements for staff.
He was told by his bosses that the police are currently calling the shots on who gets to drive up to the drop off point at T1. The curtailed route will continue, he told me, for around 2 -3 weeks or pending a review from the police.
So, any Tom, Dick or Harry can drive up to where the bus used to drop off but the staff who are security vetted and who all hold passes of varying security levels are sidelined and have to make do with getting off at the train station.

Who makes these rules because I'd love to know the mentality and reasons behind this. :ugh:

[AUTOGLIDE]

Curious pax, I'm not so sure. If you take BAA, look at what they're doing with LHR, massive new T5, then T6, 3rd runway, and the demolition of around half of the central area to build 'Heathrow East'. LGW, no massive developments since the arial walkway/bridge but always in a nice condition and state of repair, same goes for the other airports in the group. Seems that they (BAA) are investing more in their airports.
Another thing that comes to mind is that if council tax bill are subsidised, then how high would they be, hardly cheap now :eek:

[FlyZB]

I have been informed by the powers that be, that the reason for the staff bus not dropping off on Tower Road is not a staff security issue. Because Level 5 in T1 is closed, many vehicles are being re-directed to drop off outside Olympic House. Therefore the staff bus is not using this route in order to ease congestion, due to large volume of traffic now using this area.

As Freeway has correctly pointed out, this is a decision which has been made by the police and it is them who are calling the shots on who goes where. It has nothing to do with any decision made by MAPlc so perhaps people should find out some facts before they come on here slagging the management off.

I work in T2 and therefore have the 'luxury' of being able to walk from Staff West through Area 7. I can understand why it's frustrating for those of you that work in T1/3 but as we tell all our pax on a daily basis, please just bear with it. Yes, maybe it is a typical knee jerk reaction but at the end of the day safety is the number one priority here and it doesn't help matters when everyone is moaning about something which is clearly beyond the airports control.

Anyway, for those of you that work at MAN, there is a lot of information on the intranet regarding this. If you have access, log in and have a read through. Much of the info has been inputted by staff from all levels and you have the opportunity to write your own questions to the management or answer questions asked by someone else.

[Excelsbest]

Firstly i have spoken with several police officers at MAN and it is NOT a Police decision it is an Airport Decision regarding the Staff West Bus. There resoning when questioned was that Passengers take Priority as they are the paying customer. However if there are no staff to check them in due to this rediculous situation this kinda defeats the object really. Some staff already resorted to parking in Multi Storey and not paying somehow. I feel thats what we shud all do!

[lexxity]

As Freeway has correctly pointed out, this is a decision which has been made by the police and it is them who are calling the shots on who goes where. It has nothing to do with any decision made by MAPlc so perhaps people should find out some facts before they come on here slagging the management off.

Excelsbest is right, the police have given MAplc the facts regarding the staff bus and it CAN drop off on Tower Road. We had a DFT chap fly with us the other day and he was nattering with our lounge staff about the new arrangements, when he heard that staff were walking in he got straight on the phone to MAplc. They confirmed that it was a commercial decision NOT a security one.

It is very, very frustrating for everyone who has to work at MAN to put up with more cr@p from MAplc.

[BHDflyer]

It doesn't take the GLA incident to prove that security at MAN is now a shambles, it always has been.

The first time I was in Manchester airport was in October, but as I am a big Man Utd fan unfortuneately it may not be my last! I was getting my flight back home to Belfast from terminal 1 with flybe. I waited in the queue to go through security for about an hour, after that the staff split the queue in 2 (1 for ROI flights and 1 for UK flights). Northern Ireland as everyone knows it is part of the UK, but not according to the woman sitting at the desk checking passports, who despite being told by a number of passengers that NI is part of the UK, argued her head off and told all NI passengers to get in the ROI queue!

It gets worse...
I eventually just got into the queue, knowing that a row with airport security isn't recommended. Next thing you know an airport policeman comes over to the guy checking the passports and says, "Not more gobby Irish people!", which is very insulting, infact some would say racist. Now I know fine well that the vast majority of English police are pathetic, useless, donut-munching t*ssers, but airport police?

After a further 30 minutes in that queue, we got down to putting our bags on the conveyor belt, only to find that the 2 queues for UK and ROI bound passengers ended up at exactly the same conveyor belts:ugh:

I'VE SEEN A CIRCUS BETTER ORGANISED!

[Momentary Lapse]

BHD Flyer - the reason you were separated as such is because both NI and ROI need to be checked by Special Branch for counter terrorist reasons, both departing and arriving. Once you've passed the podium and the CCTV, you merge again with domestic departures.

Arriving, NI and ROI are separated for customs reasons, but not for counter terrorism or immigration reasons.

[Mr.Brown]

Arriving, NI and ROI are separated for customs reasons
Just in case they're smuggling Potato's.

[flyinthesky]

With regard to earlier comments re the ridiculous stopping of the staff bus at the station.

All MAN based crew should be having to sign a ridiculous form that tells us how to spot a suspicious occurrence and then to report it. This has to be done by the 27/7 or else we risk our passes being cancelled.

I personally am making a report to the powers that be about letting unidentified cars stop in Tower Rd to drop off. This must be a security risk, especially if the staff bus is not allowed to.

If all of us make official reports about 'security occurrences' then maybe common sense will prevail???????????

Let's all put our money where our mouth is and stand up for ourselves. The airport is just about the worst anywhere and run by idiots who treat all except shoppers with contempt. Time for us to swamp them with their own 'official' paperwork?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

A report in the latest "Travel Weekly" suggests that BMI will launch twice daily scheduled services from MAN, NWI and LHR to Kristiansand from the end of July. Strange one on such a scale and at short notice! The MAN service is not bookable on BMI's website and I have not seen any reference to this new route elsewhere. Is it perhaps some codeshare arrangement with SAS via a Scandinavian hub? Is it simply an error? Or is the report correct but not yet reflected by the BMI website?

Any insights would be appreciated.

[GrahamK]

Shed
All via ABZ on BMI regional (except the LHR route obviously) :)

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Would there be any exceptions to this rule?

I have flown into T1 recently from the Emerald Isle and not had to show my passport to anyone at all.

[Vuelo]

Together with the UK, Ireland, Channel Islands and the Isle of Man form the 'common travel area', an agreement dating back to Irish independence whereby there are no border controls within this area.

That may change if NI ever became part of the Republic though, or Ireland join the Schengen zone.

[Cumulogranite]

I seem to remember that the staff bus was in part instigated due to the rape or attempted rape of a female staff member some years ago. Perhaps MAN are waiting for this to happen again before behaving in a proper manner.

Let me spell it out to the management, we are captive in your hell on earth. We cannot bring drinks in with us to airside areas and are therefore spending money all day long on over priced water cola et al !! In a year I imagine that the staff spend more in your shopping mall (with a runway close by) than the fare paying public. Therefore, can we please have our staff bus back? Or do we have to wait for another attack in the early hours for you lot to become concerned again!!!!!

[Momentary Lapse]

Passports relate to HM Immigration Service. Their officers are not interested in travellers from ROI or NI.

However, HM Revenue and Customs are interested in ROI arrivals, but not NI arrivals.

Police Special Branch are interested in both, for counter-terrorism reasons, along with any other flight in which they decide to take an interest.

Hence the work of art that are the flexible corridors in T1 arrivals, carousel 7.

[shark1]

Hello
any news if the Jet2 route to Toulouse will continue next winter please ?

[spanishflea]

Lots of negative rumblings about AA's MAN-BOS service.

The service end date has been reduced from the end of November to the end of October, and res staff are being told it is not coming back next year. :(

[Scottie Dog]

Following on from the comment by spanishflea, it would certainly appear that the winter's pickings will indeed be sparse.

I have also heard about the early withdrawal of the BOS service and the overall reduction in both movements and passengers for the winter. The ramifications of the loss of BA Connect will continue for sometime - despite their replacement by Flybe.

We can only hope that next summer will be more upbeat - and less damp (in all senses) than 2007.

Scottie Dog

[Vuelo]

Well compated to last winter we will have new services this year to:

Johannesburg
Jeddah
Riyadh
Tel Aviv


So it's not all bad!

[Mr A Tis]

MAN-BOS. Could be one for Jet2.com to test the water, so to speak.

Very dissappointing from AA if true, bad enough the MIA no longer shows for the winter. I have to make my Key West trips via ATL (DL):(

[spanishflea]

MAN-BOS. Could be one for Jet2.com to test the water, so to speak.

I don't think so. The "problem" with MAN-BOS was that no one was actualy going to BOS. Everyone was connecting on to other parts of the AA network. This can be done more effectively through ORD or LHR where the O&D demand supplements the connectivity of the routes.

[Euroboy39]

When I was looking at fares to Boston, the cheapest AA fare was not the direct flight from MAN, but instead a connection at Chicago. Maybe the reason passengers are all connecting at Boston is because all the AA passengers to the city have been routed through Chicago or London....it's very stupid. However, if you look at DL fares to New York, it's the same story- more expensive to go direct!

[Flightrider]

Not surprising - the CAA passenger figures for June 2007 published yesterday make particularly poor reading for Manchester.

Manchester-Boston was 4,664 passengers and Manchester-Miami (which is a through-flight extension of the AA95) was 4,256. Add the two together equals 8,920 passengers. That's down 10% versus last year. Daily 757 with 188 seats x 30 days x 2 sectors equals 11,280 seats so 79% loadfactor which isn't great for transatlantic in June. Obviously we've no idea what price they are selling the seats for but this indicator isn't too healthy.

Delta are also having an awful time on MAN-JFK. Total JFK pax figures (DL+BA+PK) were down 27% versus last year in June and DL's loadfactor hasn't risen above 60% for the last three months. The service is being cut back to five per week with a 757 for the winter. Although passenger figures to Atlanta increased versus last year, the 767-400 at 285 seats indicates a loadfactor of 73% with 12,631 pax carried.

Manchester-Toronto passengers were down 38%, and only Calgary, Vancouver, Orlando and Philadelphia showed reasonable growth on the transatlantic front.

Unless this starts to get better, it would not be surprising to see some more long-haul cuts.

[Ringwayman]

Are you basing the DL JFK loads on 764s or 763? When did BA go from 2 class into LHR 3 class? Both factors may affect the total number of available seats on offer to JFK.

[UFGBOY]

JED/RUH are on the same a-c!!

[Flightrider]

DL JFK on 763 @ 199 seats.

BA JFK on 763 @ 189 seats which changed late last year, I think.

Either which way, BA were operating with 213 seats last year on dear old 'WH and so the reduction of 48 sector seats per day x 30 days means that a maximum of 1,440 customers could have been lost due to this cutback if BA operated at constant 100% loadfactors (which I doubt!). The CAA stats show over 6,000 fewer passengers between MAN and JFK in June 2007 than June 06, so the issue is far more fundamental than a bit of capacity reduction by BA.

It also can't be said that it is the effect of LPL-JFK. CAA stats show 2,575 passengers on this - which (if they actually flew the daily service planned) means 43 passengers per flight ex Liverpool. Uugh.

[peakp]

Flightrider.

IT should be noted that BA now operate New York with a premium economy
cabin,which I think came into being late 2006. This will probably account for the reduction of seats on BA,but as they obviously charge more for prem ec. possible there revenue has increased.

Also are PIA allowed to pick up passengers at Manchester to go across the pond.

Regards
Peakp

[682ft AMSL]

MAN-LHR in freefall if June numbers are indicative.

june 2004 = 120k
june 2005 = 100k
june 2006 = 92k
june 2007 = 76k

Net reduction of 44k passengers in 3 years - the equivalent of the NCL-LHR service in totality lost. MAG annual report and accounts talks of green issues, railways and airport hassle all putting domestic flights under pressure and this would seem to be borne out in the numbers. An interesting one to watch over the coming months considering these numbers won't have been impacted unduly by the most recent airport related security issues.

GLA and EDI as the other two big city pair routings into LHR are also suffering, albeit not quite as markedly.

682

[pwalhx]

682

I don't think it comes as any great surprise numbers are down on Heathrow, since the services on the West Coast main line (supposedly)improved then its been a well known fact that people have moved to the rail.

It will also come as no great surprise if some of BD slots are used for the transatlantic adventure for SMB.

[Mr A Tis]

Yes the rail is so much easier than the endless queueing, if you are not in transit somewhere.

AFAIK The MAS is flying MAN United ( + hangers on) out tomo to Malaysia

[AUTOGLIDE]

I suspect that as well as rail taking passengers from the MAN-LHR route, there is growing tendancy to make connections at Schipol/CDG etc rather than LHR, which frankly is just too unpleasent in comparison.
The awful summer may mean higher bookings next year, as the pattern of bookings holidays at home because of improved summer weather is broken.
As for the US flights, I know a lot of people who won't travel there anymore because of the security hassle and real/perceived rudeness and dislike of the way they are treated both in the UK and the US. If the figures really are falling with a 2$ to the pound exchange rate, then that is not a good sign. JFK & NYC in general seems over-serviced from MAN anyway.
If you do go via ORD avoid it like the plague in the winter months, it grinds to a halt for days on end when the snow and storms come in.

[Ringwayman]

PK did (still do?) have rights for 5 5th freedom flights per week. They were using 4 on JFK and 1 on ORD, but don't know what they are utilising them on now.

As for JFK, it's not just BA that has seen a capacity reduction.

[rampman]

was walking from staf west this morning and whilst walking through T2 arrivals it dawned on me ... it looks just like belfast 10 years ago. Concret road blocks armed police no go zones and maned road blocks.

makes me sad because the terroist's have won they have put the fear of god into everyone because unlike the I.R.A they are not scared to die??

:{ its a sad time we are living in

:mad: rampman

[Momentary Lapse]

MAN always expected LON loads to drop, due to rail mainly, but also due to other Euro hubs being so much better than LHR.

I won't fly to US again due to their preposterous security checks. I doubt I'll even renew my passport if I have to pay £100 for it just to get a free id card.

My future is staying in my home country, doing business or pleasure by t'internet, and spending quality time with loved ones. Apart from hot sun, one can find most foreign pleasures at home if you look hard enough: food, drink, culture, and now bombs apparently :eek:

[rkenyon]

The "preposterous" US style checks will soon be with us here. All domestic travelers will be fingerprinted at LHR T5.

Not looking forward to my trip down to LHR on Wednesday. The change over to Aviance seems to have been a bit of a disaster.

[Adola69]

:{
The old addage " Time to spare, go by air" is now more relevant than ever.
The "Department of Terror Inducement" (DTI), is virtually "Killing-off" the air travel industry with their "after the horse has bolted, knee jerk" security measures. They really do P**S me off.
Seperate all incoming pax from all outgoing Pax - WHY?? In the off chance that a "terrorist from a country with poor security checks could meet a fellow terroist going outbound and slip him a package to endanger the aircraft he was on!!?? - Are airline schedules really that good these days?? - don't think so. Anyway why not have gate security checks, a la Amsterdam, instead of making our airports a mish-mash of badly devided airside assets, that take you uphill and down dale in order just to satisfy this ridiculous rule. I personally am willing to take my chances vs the Bomber, as the chance of me being caught-up in one of Mr. Al-Queda's attempt to frighten us into submission is so minimal, that I bet Ladbrokes wouldn't even give you odds.
So "Mah Jeepsafire" has prevented anyone approaching a terminal building now in a motorised vehicle? I don't think the the London Tube bombers did that did they? Have any airports got measures in place to prevent any person with a rucksack on their back entering a crowded Terminal? No, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if it happens, the Dept of Terror Inducement will be quick to react by insisting that all air travellers arrive in the nude and send all their luggage by email attachment! Being sexist I couldn't wait for the next Under 21's Girls Hockey team to fly out!:E

Now about bringing back hanging for terror against a nation - ooh yes please:D

[busz]

Adola69

Amen to everything said,

[Momentary Lapse]

"uphill and down dale"

B Pier anyone? Or C Pier for that matter.

So true about someone entering a check in hall with a rucksack. How many of those are there every day?

It's all about preventing the last atrocity, never anticipating and preventing the next one.

Airports and aircraft are so relatively impenetrable now (i.e. the GLA bombers didn't even get all the way through the front door), that my money's on rail stations, shopping centres, schools, hospitals, Wembley, or anywhere else with minimal security measures.

Alternatively, sitting up in the Peak District under the arrivals track with a shoulder-launched missile, with a getaway vehicle waiting: that'd be an easy win for the terrorists, eh?

Be vigilant, everyone.

[Ringwayman]

Mahan Air have had their permit to fly to the UK withdrawn, hence the cancelled flight showing on the MAN website today. It doesn't instill too much confidence into them returing in the short-term when the Department of Transport spokesperson says "it's not able to operate safely" :eek:

[Mr A Tis]

The staff offer with Mahan to BKK will be off then:ooh:

[ATNotts]

Just read your posting and couldn't agree more.

The whole pretext of UK (and probably western) security policy is that Mr. or Ms. Terrorist organiser is slightly stupid, and a little soft in the head - doing things on impulse. At least that's how it appears.

No terrorist with half a brain is going to try the "4x4 in the terminal" sketch again. Perhaps a rucksack on the transfer bus from the carpark, or poison gas in the terminal - who knows?? One thing is for certain, operations are carefully planned, and the only reason that there wasn't considerable loss of life in Glasgow, or central London recently, was the ineptitude of the operatives.

When "Bin Bombing" improves his operatives' training, then we're in for serious trouble.

Shutting the proverbial stable door after the departure of the occupying horse is not going to make the UK safer.

[spud]

Luckily, it's difficult to find an experienced suicide bomber.

[Playamar2]

Another airline reducing services I'm sorry to say.According to posts on A.net the STN flights are stopping at the end of October, blaming poor loads and yield. There weren't enough connections to Germany in my opinion on the morning departure, and the evening departures had arrival in Germany too late for the tourist.

Playamar

[jongeman]

Air Berlin operating to STN was always a bit of a tall order, in my opinion. The MAN-LON market is contracting back to where it was before the West Coast Mainline effectively closed down, and connections via STN to Germany were never going to be too popular due to there being so many direct flights from both MAN and LPL.

MAN-STN would still be a very good prospect for Eastern or flybe, due to the premium business traffic between the North West and Essex/Cambridgeshire.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Guess they could look to wet-lease another operator to fly for them, but I doubt they'd be able to find someone cheap enough who is allowed to fly into the UK/EU to make the service worthwile.

Do Iran Air fly into London?

[Albert Hall]

Yep, Iran Air still serves Heathrow-Tehran four times weekly with 747 Classics and the very occasional 747SP visit. Without starting a thread all of its own, I'd wager these are the oldest aircraft flying regular scheduled services into the UK.

Anyway, most of the Mahan Air passengers weren't going to Tehran - I thought the majority were going to Bangkok anyway!!

[Ian Brooks]

Air Berlin never seem to advertise that you can fly to London with them
only onwards to Germany, Spain etc perhaps if they had contacted the Business travel operators and made them aware of the service things might be different. When I worked in business travel we used to have at least 10 pax a day on the MAN-STN flights as they were convienent for our customers going to places like Colchester, Chelmsford and Luton which are very difficult by train

Ian Brooks

[virginblue]

When I worked in business travel we used to have at least 10 pax a day on the MAN-STN flights as they were convienent for our customers going to places like Colchester, Chelmsford and Luton which are very difficult by train


Before Air Berlin arrived, BA whatevertheregionalarmwascalledatthistime used to operate two or three Jetstream 41 flights on the route with rather breathtaking ticket prices. As obviously there is some demand for business travel on the route, I am wondering if the likes of Eastern Airways will be interested in the route again? One of the problems with Air Berlin was that their flights were not operated by a MAN-based aircraft, making day-returns less than ideally timed. Such a move would also rectify this problem.

[WHBM]

I came through the airport a couple of days ago, through the domestic/BA Terminal, T3, and using the rail link.

Under normal circumstances it can take longer to walk from the train station to T3 than it takes the train to get out from central Manchester to the airport, you have to walk the length of T1 along the way.

At the airside end of T1 during this march it is necessary to go up one floor by escalator. This escalator was dismantled, in what looks like a long-term replacement process. The only alternative shown was to use a small lift between the two floors. This had a huge milling crowd around it, was very slow in operation, and only held about 10 people at a time.

It took several iterations of the lift before I could even get in it, and there seemed to be no alternative route at all. A good 10 minutes wasted. How can such an incompetent arrangement have been organised ?

[wiccan]

WHBM,
If you'd turned left at that escalator, and followed the signs for T3, it would have been easier and quicker
bb

[Curious Pax]

Heard a suggestion that Aeroflot Cargo are to start putting DC10Fs through MAN in the near future. Nothing on either website though - anyone know more?

[WHBM]

WHBM,
If you'd turned left at that escalator, and followed the signs for T3, it would have been easier and quicker
bb
But I was following the temporary signs put up around the works, which explicitly said for T3 to use the lift to the right and round the back of the escalator.

[Ringwayman]

Johannesburg is no longer on offer on the flyglobespan website, though the route map still shows the service.

[TechProblem]

As far as im aware Ringwayman it has been axed, although the CPT is still going. Im guessing its down to lack of A/c. :rolleyes:

[CWL_Chris]

Any developments on the service to CWL from MAN being reinstated?

[chiglet]

WHBM
When I arrived at work today, lots of signs...no use to you now tho' :ok:
watp,iktch

[WHBM]

WHBM
When I arrived at work today, lots of signs....
Wonder who has been reading this, then ... :)

[chris4567]

I might go to the AVP in man tommorow(sunday) will it be as busy as saterday?or will it be busy enough,im sure it will.doubt its busier or as busy as sat.

[Up up and away]

Hi all,

We've booked through Thomson to go to Kos on 15/9/07 (dep. 18:40) from MAN. From doing a bit of digging it appears the flight will be operated by XLA.

Is there an easy way to find out what a/c type will be used (including reg.)

Thanks

[TSR2]

Yes, this flight is currently operated by an XL Airways B767-300 as XLA2114.

[viscount702]

Any further news on Fedex

[Suzeman]

I understand that Fedex will start at the back end of August :) and Servisair will be the Handling Agent.

Mr Suzeman

[Vuelo]

Any news on whether we will have a MAD or KRK service this winter?

[jongeman]

I'd be surprised if MAN ever saw a KRK service again, with FR and EZY flying there from LPL and Wizzair to Katowice. The LCC battle is one which MAN is not going to win.

[Up up and away]

Thanks TSR2, never been on a B76 before - won't count my chickens in case it goes tech or something (some may say I wouldn't be missing anything!!)

Is there a website that holds such information or is it all kept 'in-house' on a need to know basis?

[TechProblem]

I understand that Fedex will start at the back end of August :) and Servisair will be the Handling Agent.


You sure it will be service air? Ringway do them atm.

[Suzeman]

Not sure about handling agent - maybe I used the wrong term, but I believe the freight will go through the Servisair shed. Which Transit shed handles the FDX freight at present as Ringway don't have one ?

Mr Suzeman

[rampman]

There is no Transit shed used on the night time fed-ex as the vans and one wagon meet it eache time it comes in .. the offload or onload go straight from the back of the vans as it is a ATR-72

i think ringway are losing the contract due to poor service rumour has it serviceair have won it back

:ok:RAMPMAN

[Fuel Boy]

I have checked the 1st week of Sept. Fed Ex have a 2030 slot daily.
FX033 in from CDG and then onto MEM flying MD11F's.

Lets see if it comes to anything:ok:

[Vuelo]

Rumour has it that Aeroflot are to introduce a 3x weejky service from Moscow. Anyone know any more?

[airhumberside]

I have checked the 1st week of Sept. Fed Ex have a 2030 slot daily.
FX033 in from CDG and then onto MEM flying MD11F's.
Will there be a flight in the other directions from MEM?

[Fuel Boy]

Have checking the info there is no inbound MEM flight so it only routes through MAN on return to MEM..

[Fuel Boy]

Rumour has it that Aeroflot are to introduce a 3x weejky service from Moscow. Anyone know any more?


As Before I have checked Slots asked and only found single one offs

SU8906 DC10F etd 1850 to Moscow and another flight in October :8

[Vuelo]

What other services are pencilled in with the winter slot allocation? Any surprises?

Are KQ going to ever start as promised last season?

[Domrep]

i think ringway are losing the contract due to poor service rumour has it serviceair have won it back :=
Ringway are not losing them, Servisair have got the contract for the DC10 freighter that Fedex will be using when that service starts, so it makes sence to keep them both together:hmm:
Domrep

[Bagso]

"...What other services are pencilled in with the winter slot allocation? Any surprises?

I had heard doom and gloom with more bad news than good !

[chiglet]

Fuel boy,
Got the paperwork in ATC flight planning yesterday for four flights, faxed to Ops and Servisair. :ok:
watp,iktch

[Fuel Boy]

Can I drop Pax off at the Jet2 check-in point by olympic house or do I need to use free parking.
How close can you get to drop pax off?

Cheers
Fuelboy :)

[lexxity]

You can drop people off at Olympic for jet2, but they still have to go through the main terminal as there is no entry to the ground level jet2 area now.

[MUFC_fan]

Was hoping that Oasis Hong Kong may look to start MAN services in the near future but is instead looking at Milan, Cologne and Berlin. Shame really as this could be a great move if the airline and airport were to band their heads together. What do people think? Cheers.

On another note, I had a bad experience at MAN last Thursday on the taxiing-inbound FCA flight from CCC. We landed approx. 5 minutes early but then had to wait 45 mins outside the AVP to wait for an Air France A319 to vacate our parking space. This was due to a delayed flight! Now, if Air France are to base a plane at MAN for a night stop, surely there can be no delay unless there was a technical error with the aircraft! How can a plane be delayed if it hasn't even taken to the sky that day?!:ugh:

Also, MAN need to sort out their runway operations. We waited 35 minutes on the outbound flight to cross 23R because of the mrning rush. We eventually deperted 45 minutes late. This was after a morning of chaos with a delayed taxi from my house and excess baggage of £85. Not a great start to the hols!;)

Anyway, FCA were exceptional and their economy service was equal to that of BA, EK etc in the same class. Brilliant and warm loving crew!

Soryy about that, I just can't stand MAN operations, just hoped that all airlines were as good as FCA and could instantly destress you once you have boarded the plane...oh...wait...FR fly from MAN...ah well, that idea goes out of the window!

[Ian Brooks]

Air France was probably delayed by slots into CDG as they seem to be all the time but unlike Flybe and previously BAcon they take the delay on stand, this then causes all sorts of fun for inbound aircraft
Sounds if there were a lot of delays the time you flew as usually the crossing clearance is very rapid and any delay is taken at the hold unless it was for 35 minutes?

Ian

[MUFC_fan]

There was a constant flow of aircraft from 10:05 until 10:40. We just waited and waited. We firstly had to wait for an Etihad to pull out, incoming BA to head to T3 and then we waited by the runway with 7 a/c infront.

Not a good experience at MAN! But have had many good ones in the past!:D

[flyinthesky]

Of all the airports I have operated in and out of, anywhere in the world, Manchester is without doubt the worst.

It is badly laid out and precious little forethought has been made wrt future development. It is a hotch-potch of leaking old terminals and ridiculously designed taxi routes. It is amazing that there are not more ground related incidents.

Sitting at the hold waiting to cross the landing runway is normality at busy times.

Approaching stand we are expected to use a vertical fluorescent light set against a blackboard. 2007 - I ask you!!! Go to just about any other reasonably developed country and see what they provide.

But never mind, we have a great retail experience and don't even get me started on the security and baggage handling - all stripped to the bare bones to make a few more sheckels.:(:(:(

[MUFC_fan]

Have you ever been to STN, I used to fly on the BLK-STN route quite regularly. The only reason I didn't change to MAN was because LHR and LGW are just as bad!

MAN isn't that bad when everything goes ok, its just that that doesn't happen very often, thats all!;)

[flyinthesky]

Actually, from a professional users point of view, having to use it as home base, it really IS that bad. The level of investment in the actual aviation related infrastructure is nowhere near what it should be for the size of airport and its supposed international standing.

Professionally speaking, STN is much better, although I don't visit that often. MAN has one of the most ridiculous taxi-route structures anywhere.

As I said, they put more store in retail than anything else. We went 9 months in T1 with hoardings up airside. On the side of the hoardings were signs telling us that the disturbance was due to security improvements - The result - A NEW BAR???:ugh:

Up against Changi/ Vancouver or EVEN Cancun, the airport is embarrassing.

[MUFC_fan]

Wasn't MAN voted World's best airport about 5 years ago?:eek:

[flyinthesky]

The directors probably got all their relatives to vote 'cos any pilot will tell you it sure aint up there with the best.

Don't think there is any way they could win that now:(

The place needs bulldozing and starting again but that's not going to happen!

[Playamar2]

Would have to agree with Flyinthesky that MAN is going downhill in the popularity stakes, due to the imbalance of money and resources being spent on retail rather than passenger comforts (escalators working, shorter security queues etc).

Playamar2

[Momentary Lapse]

It got best world airport about 10+ years ago, mainly cos T2 had just opened, where everything still worked because it was under guarantee, and there was plenty of space in T1 cos a lot of airlines had moved over.

Who was Chief Exec then?

Ah yes, Sir Gil Thompson, who retired shortly afterwards.

[IB4138]

Gil Thompson was a gent and knew what he was doing.

The encumbents since are not in the same class; infact don't come up to his knee height.

[TSR2]

Your flight to Kos was operated last weekend by XL Airways B767-3YO G-VKNH.

[expo131]

Moderated 3rd Party Request. PPRuNe

[opnot]

FLYIN THE SKY
What do expect at a busy airfield when approaching a crossing point of a rwy, go straight across without any holding.
we have 4 crossing points ,and expect to cross 4 acft in a 3 mile landing interval. we have now lost 1 main crossing point due work . If you could see what we have to do as GMC/AIR CONTROLLERS to get you across with minimal delay.
That part of your post is a contempt on a group of people trying to do their best to keep the traffic moving under less than ideal circumstances

[Code 100]

Why are a number of BE domestic flights canx today?

[danfulton]

Looks like an overnight powercut is causing problems for the whole airport.

[Suzeman]

Looks like FlyBe have cancelled most of their morning programme including those aircraft coming in from other bases. One or two other inbound delays. Inbounds were nearly stopped due to lack of parking positions as most of the first wave outbounds had still not gone.

A couple of US inbounds are delayed but not sure whether this is because of a late departure from the States or they have diverted somewhere. As usual when there is an incident, the flight info on the web site is very slow or not available.:bored:

Just what you don't need at this time of year. Anyone know what the cause was?

Suzeman

[WHBM]

From the BBC :

.....an airport spokeswoman said. She added that flights had not been cancelled but there were delays.

BA Heathrow arrivals from Manchester (at 0930) :

08:25 BA1385 MANCHESTER DELAYED Terminal One
09:25 BA1387 MANCHESTER CANCELLED Terminal One
11:00 BA1389 MANCHESTER CANCELLED Terminal One
12:20 BA1391 MANCHESTER DELAYED Terminal One
14:25 BA1395 MANCHESTER CANCELLED Terminal One

does the "airport spokeswoman" have the faintest idea what she is talking about ?

[MUFC_fan]

Does it gove a time this quote was mad?

Also, the passengers on connecting flights won't be too pleased when they arrive at LHR. Missed a flight and had their bags lost all in one morning!;)

[Ian Brooks]

Does it gove a time this quote was mad?

mufc are you auditioning for a part in Allo Allo? Lol

Ian

[Island Jockey]

Full details of the Manchester airport power problems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6934435.stm

Electricity and water do not make a good partnership!

[MUFC_fan]

Sorry.

If the quote was made before the cancellations took place then you can hardly blame her. She was working on the information she had been given.

But if they had already been cancelled then obviously she wasn't receiving the right info.

[Suzeman]

As happens in this type of situation, the flight info on the website has reverted to emergency mode. This shows some interesting things

Firstly the SAS flight from CPH is showing as arrived but its BD code-share is showing as cancelled. Nice trick if you can do it. I know the flight did operate.

Secondly the terminal names shown seem to be a bit outdated - Terminal 1 International and still Terminal 3 British Airways........:ooh:

Suzeman

[J-Man]

Yes, it wasnt a very nice morning for us on the ground (T3). 16 BE flights canx between 0600-0900. All of the London BA routes and BMI routes too. Funnily enough BMI decided to board the Baby flight to BFS, got all the pax on then realised they didnt want the flight to leave without it being full and off they came. Normality restored in some form albeit delays about 0900 in T3. Luckily BE have several flights a day to nearly all destinations so they wernt as stuck as they could have been should there only have been 1 rotation. On the whole rather chaotic in the check in hall and airside but a job well done by all staff from every airline. :ok::D

[flyinthesky]

OPNOT

my comments regarding sitting at the hold awaiting crossing clearance were directed at a previous posting who raised a query. I am well aware of the constraints that are placed on movement by the design of the airfield.

wrt my 'contempt'!

I have a very good acquaintance in the tower and have the utmost respect for those guys. Please read my post carefully. It is directed at the lack of design and investment NOT a group of people.

Flyinthesky

[UFGBOY]

Why no back up generator?

Also hear that the doors to areas on air bridges where you need to swipe through locked shut... what would have happened in one of these 'sealed' areas ?

[WHBM]

I also am amazed that a failure in one location (apparently in an office building) caused loss of power supply to all three terminals.

Whoever did the electrical circuit design must have had to do it on the ultra-cheap with no redundancy or other consideration of maintaining supply. This is straightforward Building Services power circuit design, especially in such a significant structure as a major airport.

[Momentary Lapse]

I bet it was in the bottom of the Tower Block, a building that hasn't seen much investment in recent years.

When maintenance budgets were cut, one of the first maintenance routines to go was the regular checks that the backup batteries are holding their charge. They're there for when there's a power cut.

I leave you, dear reader, to work out the rest of this sorry tale for yourself...

[lexxity]

Same tale as last time the power went out at T3. Shambles because the backup didn't.

[AeroMANC]

Power failure was a consequence of a flood in Olympic House, nothing to do with the Tower Block, thats where the sorry tale started!

[roverman]

Leaving aside the hot topic of power cuts if I may, and getting back to the earlier debate about MAN's airfield facilites. I can assure 'flyinthesky' and others that there are people within MAG who fully recognise the limitations of the airfield infrastructure and are lobbying hard to steer policy and investment towards tackling the issues, and not just putting in more shops. It can't have escaped everyone's notice that a huge amount of money is currently being spent on re-building the northern taxiway network, with considerable disruption as a result. This project has been going on for nearly 2 years and is a major departure from the piecemeal repair works of the past. The new pavements going down are 50% thicker and thereby 50% stronger than those they replace, and have been designed to the wheeltracks of the largest aircraft - A380, A340-600, B777-300. Alignment, markings and lighting have all been improved as we go. The works currently in progress at crossing link Delta are adding a fillet which enables large aircraft to make the turn onto it from Kilo - eliminating one of many frustrating constraints which are a legacy of a taxiway network designed around the old three runway layout of the 1940s-1960s.
Looking ahead, there are proposals under the Airfield Master Plan to re-construct and realign Taxiway Alpha as part of a new dual-parallel taxiway route running to the north of 05L-23R. Dual parallel routes will also feature on the 'caravan route' into T2, although several options are under consideration at this time. Numerous other small improvements will be made to remove constraints and smooth the flow of ground traffic. With this will come a complete re-designation of all taxiways to provide a simpler, more logical system where designations 'A/B/C etc' will be applied in a grid fashion and hence there will be no more 'long and winding roads' a la Taxiway Alpha and Delta. There are people in MAG who care about these things and listen to what pilots and ATC say. Make sure you have a representative at the Flight Operations Safety Commitee (FLOPSC) etc, and have your say direct to those who can make a difference!

[Suzeman]

And on top of all yesterday's woes, this happened - not seen it reported before. From UK Airport News

07.08.07
No flights were allowed to take off from Blackpool, Liverpool and Manchester airports between 06:00 and 06:55 today after problems at Air Traffic Control in West Drayton. Manchester Airport was the least affected of the three, because it was also suffering a power outage.
The problem was cleared up and the airspace re-opened at 07:30, but a spokesman said there would be knock on effects 'for the rest of the day'. Passengers at all three airports 'should turn up as normal', but expect delays of up to two hours

So what was all that about?

Suzeman

[Fuel Boy]

Roverman

I applaud your comments the the works being done to the taxi-ways.

It's all well and good making the concrete 50% thicker and marking the lines for larger A/C 380 etc... but as you say it has been going on for 2 years already and still going on, but once completed it will be fantastic.

Question is where will these A/C go T2 is never going to take these bigger A/C and with stand 60 being the allocated A380 stand it makes MAN look underated, I mean which carrier would want to bring their newest A/C to MAN and have PAX bussed off :ugh:.

So until MAPLC sort out the terminals all we will have is new tarmac !!!!

Just a Thought
Fuelboy

[roverman]

Fuel Boy - True, the A380 doesn't feature in plans for T2 but other large types like B773, A346 and possibly B748 do and indeed some already use T2. Stands 204 and 206 have been lengthened recently to take them. The plan for A380 on Stand 60 is long gone. A380s will be served by a new stand (or stands) on the end of Pier B. Pier B will need some upgrading at the very least to the buidling structure and facilities. The apron area in question (around Stand 12) is currently closed awaiting re-construction, which will ionclude a re-alignment of Taxiway Juliet to the south as part of the dual-parallel taxiways plan. Design of this reconstruction will incorporate the A380 stand(s). Customer is EK who plan 2 x daily A380 from 2012. This will necessitate a terminal swap for EK but is in line with plans to re-distribute airline traffic across the 3 terminals.

[Momentary Lapse]

Good news Roverman.

It is indeed a shame that for so long the powers that be have focussed on commercial rather than the one thing that makes an airport an airport and not a shopping centre: the concrete outside.

Does the plan to mark dual taxiways from R1 to T2 still include deleting, or at least occasionally closing, the stands around FLS? I think they're the 60s but I may be wrong. Wasn't it called taxiway Quebec at one time?

Has the Airfield Master Plan got round the underlying problem, which is that the cargo and maintenance areas get in the way, as does most of the new part of T3? Is the plan available anywhere for us to read?

Thanks for the update.

[MANAGP]

So does this investment mean that at long last we can get rid of mirror stands and have something at least as good as Safedock?

[pwalhx]

It is mentioned elsewhere that Centralwings have been linked with 3x weekly Poznan > Manchester service and 4 weekly Boeing 737-300 flights to Warsaw. All details to be confirmed.

If this is the case could it be the demise of LOT flights.

[roverman]

The Airfield Master Plan is still being refined and is subject to MAG Board approval. It has been the subject of consultation with airline operators through the AOC. The essentials outlined in previous posts above are likely to feature in the approved plan but timescales for implementation will vary depending on traffic growth. Taxiway Quebec is still in existence - the route of a second parallel taxiway through to T2 depends on which options for terminal layout and traffic distribution are pursued *Management Speak alert* 'going forwards'.

[AeroMANC]

And yes, the mirrors will eventually be replaced with an Advanced Docking Guidance System! Things are looking up!

[Mr A Tis]

When the penny drops, maybe MA plc will concentrate on speeding people thro check in & thro security, have walkways, lifts & escalators working, have taxyways open, reduced airfield bottlenecks then maybe the punters will not be put off as the higher yield pax most definetly are.
My mate with a family of 5 has just departed from Liverpool as a matter of choice, he lives 3 miles from MAN. He claims even with the journey to LPL, it was a "breeze" compared to flying from MAN. I have just been down to London today, but with a Virgin train-travel time 2 hours, unhassled, in comfort, no queues, another breeze compared to negotiating a shopping centre with an airport as a side line & an unknown journey time.
It is nice to have a choice these days.

[airhumberside]

If this is the case could it be the demise of LOT flights.
According to another forum they are being axed

[viscount702]

I would seem that EY are changing timings for the Winter flights to AUH. Going 4 morning and 3 evening according to their Web site.

Could this be to try and increase loads which would not seem to too good based on the June figures

[TURIN]

Customer is EK who plan 2 x daily A380 from 2012.

Oh thats good that is. Very very good. :D:D:D:D

Hmmmm here's another, SwineAir are to start daily services to PORKland via HAMburg. Not sure what time of day but they want to take advantage of the afternoon TROUGH.
Sorry if this is a BOAR. :\:E:ok:

[aeulad]

2 daily A380s is perfectly possible, and highly probable. They are filling two 77Ws as it is, the EK configured A380 is not a HUGE increase.

Regards

Mike

[Ringwayman]

The 77W is 430 seats or thereabouts and EK's A380HD will be 650 seats or thereabout (and this is the variant that will likely come to MAN. Are you sure that a 50% increase in capacity is not "HUGE"?

[MUFC_fan]

Emirates wouldn't use the HD version as they attract alot of business passenger too.

Wouldn't be surprised to see an A380 on the route. Guessing 1st will be LHR or HKG?

[Ringwayman]

Lots of business passengers.....yes. Lots of first class passengers .....no. There's a reason why EK keep using HD versions of their fleet in the regions and not the LD versions!

[Suzeman]

Mr Turin writes about EK's A380 at MAN

"Oh thats good that is. Very very good. :D:D:D:D

Hmmmm here's another, SwineAir are to start daily services to PORKland via HAMburg. Not sure what time of day but they want to take advantage of the afternoon TROUGH.
Sorry if this is a BOAR. :\:E:ok: "


Sorry Mr Turin, but EK have been talking to the Airport for some time (2+ years that I am aware of) about A380 ops. Of course EK's plans have been changing, not least because of the delivery delays to the 380.

I fly with EK every couple of months in J class from MAN and am often wait listed even several weeks in advance although the seat has always become available so far......The aircraft is more often than not full and it is a viable way to get to many long haul destinations from this part of the world in relative comfort without having to endure the hell that is LHR. A 3rd frequency would be nice in the interim..... :)

The DXB hub is relatively hassle free and nicely breaks up a Far East journey half way through which European hubs don't do. If I miss my connection, I don't have to wait for more than a few hours for the next flight because of EK's frequencies. As EY and QR build up destinations and frequencies from AUH and DOH, they will become more viable too.

If EY are changing times it would be a shame as it is always nice to know there is a flight at the same time each day, especially for passengers on business who may need to change travel arrangements at short notice. But I guess they will have done their homework, looking at connecting pax flows and how to minimise connection times etc to attract more pax.

Suzeman

[Vuelo]

Hmmmm here's another, SwineAir are to start daily services to PORKland via HAMburg. Not sure what time of day but they want to take advantage of the afternoon TROUGH.
Sorry if this is a BOAR. "


and now in English, please?!

[Vuelo]

Could this be to try and increase loads which would not seem to too good based on the June figures


Nothing to do with loads, EY are booming from MAN according to their station manager and have heard that MAN performs much better than the LGW route. The timings are being revised to suit travellers to Australia and Thailand better.

On some days almost 50pc of the flight is made up of pax going on to SE Asia.

[OltonPete]

Probably not the greatest month for stats as it is the lowest of the low for EK & EY!

From the CAA

EY 8070 with 62 rotations (again CAA figures) = 130 per flight

EK 31040 with 124 rotations (again CAA figures) = 250 per flight (57%)

JFK 13053 with 62 BA 34 DL & 35 PK rotations (per CAA)

EK would certainly be interesting with those figures on a 380.

The EY is very low even considering it is May and is there any explanation for the JFK figures?

I assume the BA 767 is now 24/24/144 config and hence less seats available at the back-end but even if you dismiss the PK rotations the
load factor for May is poor (I assume greater yield for BA in this config though).

Pete

[viscount702]

Quote

Nothing to do with loads, EY are booming from MAN according to their station manager and have heard that MAN performs much better than the LGW route. The timings are being revised to suit travellers to Australia and Thailand better.

On some days almost 50pc of the flight is made up of pax going on to SE Asia .


The figures would suggest otherwise. EY no longer operate to LGW the flight was moved to LHR some time ago.

The figures for May as quoted earlier

EY 8070 with 62 rotations (again CAA figures) = 130 per flight

and the figures for June would suggest that the load is is about 55% unless the CAA figures aren't showing the whole story

Viscout

[pwalhx]

Then no doubt if the figures continue the suggested decline then they will discontinue all or some of the flights.

However also take into account the amount of cargo being carried which will affect the economics of the operation.

I have to say, totally unscientific I know, I flew EK in may and both in and out of Manchester was virtually full both in Biz and at the back.

[viscount702]

There was no suggestion on my part that there was a decline in passenger numbers on these routes.

In fact compared to a year ago the CAA figures suggest there have been increases to DOH DXB & AUH

DOH up 38%

DXB up 27%

AUH up 7%

AUH shows the smallest increase but it is an increase.

My query related to EY's decision to change timings to give 4 morning and 3 evening departures. The figures by CAA suggest that EY's loads are about 55% and I woundered if this was to try and improve loads.

I must be rememberred that QR on a similar aircraft are carrying more than double the number of passengers and they opreate similar flight timings

In fact based on CAA figures I would query whether EK are doing as well as many would suggest.

It may be that the CAA figures do not tell the whole story but when it is suggested that the EK flights are nearly always full the figures would suggest otherwise.

June figures for DXB show 36402 pax. This would suggest 304 pax per flight'

If as reported previously by others the capacity for a 77W operating to MAN is 430 this gives a load of 70% on average.

A good load but not as high as some would suggest. Further although 2012 is some years off could in 4 or so years EK really operate 2 Daily A380's from MAN

Reverting to EY if the CAA figures are right then can EY really continue on 55% loads unless freight is a major factor on this route.

Viscount

[pwalhx]

Viscount, appreciate your comments, did say that my evidence was unscientific based on my experience.
I dont work in pax but in cargo and can only say that on the cargo side it has and is often mentioned about a 3rd flight this would suggest they are more than satisfied.

[viscount702]

pwalhx

As I don't work at MAN I can't speak from first hand knowledge.

Everything suggests EK are more than satisfied with their ops from MAN and there have been many rumors of a third flight never mind the possibility of A380's in the future.

My comments are more directed at EY where the CAA figures would suggest that they are not doing as well as many would suggest and I doubt that they could continue with a Daily service if CAA figures are correct. I hope I am wrong'

What is the cargo position with EY to AUH and do you know how JETT8 and Great Wall are doing.

At the moment it would seem that cargo is the only positive area

Viscount

[Ian Brooks]

It`s cargo again quite often cargo nearly pays for the pax so they are a bonus and has been mentioned somewhere EY are out performing Gatwick.
I was alway told that a long haul flight took 3 years to mature so I would think EY are quite happyand as the market matures I expect the loads to creep up towards 200 mark, remember it took Qatar quite a while

Ian

[viscount702]

Ian

Point taken. However as I posted earlier EY no longer serve LGW they moved to LHR some time back

Viscount

[pwalhx]

Viscount, Great Wall and Jett8 will probably be doing well inbound, will take some time for them to establish themselves over here as their reputation hasn't been good.

However as there is such a demand inbound from the far east the back load as such can be a bonus. Fact is sea freight container space particularly ex China at the moment is at a premium so there is plenty of traffic westbound coming by air instead.

As for EY, I agree with the previous post, it took QR some time to establish themselves, I have no doubt EY will and lets be honest they have the financial backing to take a loss on a route till its established and there is a certain amount of Emirate (in the state not airline) v Emirate rivalry so if EK operates somewhere then EY wants to do the same. So i think they will stick with it.

[Vuelo]

Good news, looks like MAN will get a MAD service this winter......details not released yet though. Should be announced in next few weeks along with 5 other European cities, all from the same carrier, if murmurings are to be believed.

[Pizzaro]

Any clues on the carrier?

[MUFC_fan]

A couple of months ago, LS said they wanted to increase their operations at the airport and bring in more a/c, maybe this is an expansion plan.

Or EZY!:}:}:}:}:}:}

[chris4567]

if im honest i would like EZY to come to man.

[eggc]

Ohhhh nooooo...

Please dont mention MAN & EZY in the same sentance again.

You will be hung drawn and quartered by the LJA crew !

Last time someone mentioned EZY coming to MAN regional PPRuNe warfare broke out :uhoh:

[wiccan]

There are two chances of EZY coming to MAN....slim, and none
MAD + 5.....equals [depending on time of day] approx 3-6 stands...we are 4% down and still have to hold the inbounds :{ usually "because they are too early" :ugh::=
bb

[Ringwayman]

Why 3 to 6 stands? If an airline is introducing 6 routes ex-MAN, perhaps they are planning for 2 aircraft each operating 3 routes each day? Or if it were to be FR, perhaps just the 1 aircraft with each route being 3 or 4 weekly?

[MUFC_fan]

If it were FR, they would realise that MAN is open 24 hours an would operate all routes daily!

:ok::ok:

[Ringwayman]

Looking at recent FR route announcements, relatively few are now being brought in on daily services - typically 3 or 4 per week which them allows them the chance should the service perform well the opportunity to a base another aircraft or 2 to add either 4 or 3 more flights per week to that destination.

[MUFC_fan]

The reason for this is because they are starting to enter larger airports which means FR have competition unlike their normal routes which consist of airports such as GRO and LPL where competition is non-existant.

When they enter ALC, PMI, TFS etc, they start to play with the 'big boys.' You are now thinking FR is bigger than the likes of TOM, XL, FCA, MYT, MON, TCX which is true, but these airlines have been bringing passengers to these areas for many years and WILL get passengers on their aircraft as they are mostly providing a full package holiday. EZY has taken the market at secondary airports such as LPL and BRS where these routes were once with little competition.

FR have to fill 189 seats on their aircraft AND now compete with the tour operators and obviously EZY and ZB who are ruthless on these routes with exceptionally high loads. They can't just throw these carriers off the route with their low fares because many of these holidaymakers are there to be put up in a hotel without any messing.

That is why FR have 3 & 4 times weekly flights as they do not have a monopoly on many of their new routes. I congratulate FR for realising this.

Obviously, most FR routes are successes so I would be surprised if the new routes aren't increased when new aircraft arrive from across the pond.

[Suzeman]

Going back to the freight carryings in and out of MAN, the Airport's figures for June show EK carrying 1596 tonnes (+3.8% on June 2006) , EY 805 tonnes (+34%) and QR 500 tonnes (-8.3%). This will undoubtedly be an important source of revenue for these carriers.

Suzeman

[MUFC_fan]

Did anybody know about the new CX service to begin next year - passenger?

Of course, this is subject to government approval, but do we really think they will turn them away?!

Will this be a A330, A340 or B744? About time MAN got Hong Kong onto the map!

[eggc]

I will believe it when it is queing for a T2 stand !