Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southampton-3

Old 18th Aug 2023, 13:32
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,236
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Now that the runway extension is done and dusted, was getting bored so decided to have a look at the "Navigators Quarter" development, which includes the AGS land to the east of the runway, what used to be the 10/28 grass runway many many years ago.

This development is outlined in a website:

https://www.navigatorquarter.co.uk/

You may find it amusing to look at the home page graphics to see what some clown has done to show the runway extension!

The proposed development includes three parcels of land, "Railside" (the current old Locomotive Works site), "Riverside" (east of Campbell Road) and "Skyside" (the AGS land).

On a positive note "Railside" could benefit SOU as the current large/high Loco Works sheds will be demolished. These are a potentially weight limiting obstacle for RWY 02 departures. The question is "how will it be accessed?". All that is currently available is the narrow Campbell Road bridge, with two sharp bends on it. Must be great fun navigating an articulated truck around it.

Same question for "Riverside", only current access is Campbell Road bridge. Doubt if the Campbell Road residents are going to be impressed with all the extra traffic.

Finally, the one that I've previously been banging on about, "Skyside".

Firstly the "SAM" VOR/DME will need de-commissioning, has been talked about in past as part of an on-going NATS UK VOR reduction plan, anyone know the latest on when it goes?

Then of course is the issue of access. Would appear that the only viable option is around the north end of the runway. Just how is this going to work? In a past life the proposed site development was discussed with the somewhat naive view that "no problem, we will install traffic lights which ATC can control", the ATC response was to tell BAA where they could stick their traffic lights, and of course it was not north of the runway!

The next, potentially amusing episode is awaited.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 13:50
  #1942 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe there will be access to all 3 Navigator sites from the airport road and will perimeter around the north of the airfield with a cutting dug at the head of R20
stewyb is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 13:58
  #1943 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MARKEYD
There is absolutely no need to panic about the release of Summer 24 flights

The only companies that do this is TUI and Jet 2 they amend constantly and update all the time

Ryanair and EasyJet donít release anything until mid October / November so donít expect anything until then

No one really books until Dec / Jan when it all goes crazy town !!

BA just copy and paste everything for the following year then just cancel at the last minute as always
I have access to BA loads and itís a mixed bag
The TUI charter flights have done so far extremely well with BA Cityflyer , full to be precise ..

However the rest of the schedule like ALC , FAO and AGP about 60 / 70 % for August , the fares are pretty high and could be the reason , but not breaking loads for the height of summer I am afraid
Concur with MARKEYD and flight only release dates are usually Nov/Dec for the following summer. At that point there will be some route announcements for SOU so no need to panic!

Last edited by stewyb; 19th Aug 2023 at 08:09.
stewyb is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 15:24
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,236
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
I believe there will be access to all 3 Navigator sites from the airport road and will perimeter around the north of the airfield with a cutting dug at the head of R20
Have a look at Google Earth, albeit that it will be a while before the runway extension appears. It should become evident how many rail tracks are in the way, no way is there an economic option for access to Railside from the airport site.

If everything is to access from the airport side, is someone going to fund a new bridge from Wide Lane north of the Terminal and/or replace the current chicane on the current Wide Lane Bridge? In the case of the latter, the airport perimeter road is going to get very busy with 2 million + passengers and Navigator Quarter traffic!

This is beginning to look like something akin to the new Global Airlines! When does the Navigator Quarter merchandise go on sale?
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 15:58
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,331
Received 54 Likes on 36 Posts
It should become evident how many rail tracks are in the way, no way is there an economic option for access to Railside from the airport site.
Judging by the illustrations on that website, it does look like the perimeter track round the end of 20 is the way in and out of all three sites (look at the trucks in the illustration). Certainly a very constrained site unless somebody starts adding bridges over the railway lines.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 18:11
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Between the flower pots
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
And so itís been proved right. More hysteria. Itís only been open a few days, give things time to catch up! Aircraft are physically taking off from the new tarmac, what more evidence do you need? There was a calibration flight the other day.
Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.
Pain in the R's is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 18:21
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BMA
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pain in the R's
Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.
And that doesnít always happen instantly. Look at LCY. It was years before it was booming.
BA318 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 19:02
  #1948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length.
Iíd love to know from what knowledge base you make that statement. The additional runway length has made a massive difference to the E145 performance. I understand ATR72 aircraft which have seen payload restrictions off R20 are seeing similar improvements.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2023, 19:41
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pain in the R's
Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.
You should remember this contributor has some extreme views. Im sure SOU will be seeing many airbuses in the near future.
RW20 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 07:35
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Im sure SOU will be seeing many airbuses in the near future.
Summed up nicely. Forget ATR 72’s, which seem to actually need 1315m at maximum takeoff weight but will use what is available. Success or failure here will be judged on Airbuses.
LTNman is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2023, 14:57
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Under the flight path
Posts: 2,620
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by LTNman
Summed up nicely. Forget ATR 72ís, which seem to actually need 1315m at maximum takeoff weight but will use what is available. Success or failure here will be judged on Airbuses.
The plural of Airbus is Airbi.
LGS6753 is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2023, 12:06
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,236
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
The runway extension is apparently completed? If so has someone at SOU forgotten about this NOTAM (C3536/23) that is still current until 25 September?
A)EGTT/QFAAH/IV/BO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
B)2306270530 C)2309252145
E)AD OPERATING HOURS
MON-SAT 0530-2100
SUN 0630-2100
ANY EXTENSION TO OPR HR WILL ONLY BE GRANTED IN EXCEPTIONAL
CIRCUMSTANCES DUE TO RWY EXTENTION WORKS AND ONLY WITH PERMISSION
OF THE AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER (02380 627113)
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2023, 17:26
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,136
Received 317 Likes on 183 Posts
whats the rush?
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2023, 19:11
  #1954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 43
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Saabdriver1
Iíd love to know from what knowledge base you make that statement. The additional runway length has made a massive difference to the E145 performance. I understand ATR72 aircraft which have seen payload restrictions off R20 are seeing similar improvements.
Thatís great to hear. Do you know what sort improvements for those aircraft it has had? Carry more passengers, burn less fuel etc? Hopefully it results in lower ticket prices.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2023, 23:13
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Thatís great to hear. Do you know what sort improvements for those aircraft it has had? Carry more passengers, burn less fuel etc? Hopefully it results in lower ticket prices.
So where is the evidence? Looking up the manufacturers spec for the ATR72, it stated that at maximum takeoff weight the aircraft needs only 1315m. Why did those figures not apply at SOU?
LTNman is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2023, 23:37
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LTNman
So where is the evidence? Looking up the manufacturers spec for the ATR72, it stated that at maximum takeoff weight the aircraft needs only 1315m. Why did those figures not apply at SOU?
1315m is at ISA conditions - which assumes no wind 15įC, 1013mbar ambient pressure etc... Aircraft performance can drop off considerably when these values deviate. Those distances also don't factor in the effect of any obstacles around the runway.
adfly is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2023, 05:38
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Between the flower pots
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The distances available and performance figures remain the same for departures from runway 02 at 1723m TODA. Airlines would have to factor in the shorter distances available for runway 02 for any new route calculation.
Pain in the R's is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2023, 07:30
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pain in the R's
The distances available and performance figures remain the same for departures from runway 02 at 1723m TODA. Airlines would have to factor in the shorter distances available for runway 02 for any new route calculation.
This is incorrect ,the declared distance for TORA 02 is 1745mtrs.
RW20 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2023, 09:20
  #1959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But because of the shorter distances it is reasonable to assume that 02 will not be used if the wind is calm so when 02 in use there will always be some headwind to improve performance. There are other examples of regular A320 operations into airfields where one direction is very limiting. The best example that comes to mind is Florence.
willy wombat is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2023, 10:01
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,236
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by willy wombat
But because of the shorter distances it is reasonable to assume that 02 will not be used if the wind is calm so when 02 in use there will always be some headwind to improve performance. There are other examples of regular A320 operations into airfields where one direction is very limiting. The best example that comes to mind is Florence.
Prior to the runway extension during calm or light wind conditions on occasions we received requests when runway 20 was in use for use of runway 02 in order to take advantage of the better TORA, even if this resulted in a slight tailwind component. Now that the extension is in use the situation means that 20 has the superior TORA.

I cannot for one moment believe that AGS made the large capital investment in SOU without having spoken to prospective new operators to ascertain what they need to consider operating from SOU. While now less than 20, I feel sure that operations from 02 would have been considered by prospective operators.
TCAS FAN is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.