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Southampton-3

Old 12th Oct 2023, 14:14
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Just a thought, could the 300 series work performance wise with Jet2? They have a year or two left in them and carry 150 pax so maybe an option, although locals might not be so keen with increased noise levels
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 14:16
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
Has the new TODA at Southampton been confirmed yet? Jersey's has hardly any obstacles off 26 so performance not as inhibited as it may be at Southampton.
RWY 20 TODA now 1875M. Unfortunately it does not have the luxury of Jersey's RWY 26 which has no significant obstacles allowing declaration of up to half TORA as a clearway, giving Jersey a whopping TODA 2472 M,
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 14:18
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With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off.
Cavok, I didn’t say an announcement was imminent.
Oh dear...
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 14:26
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
RWY 20 TODA now 1875M. Unfortunately it does not have the luxury of Jersey's RWY 26 which has no significant obstacles allowing declaration of up to half TORA as a clearway, giving Jersey a whopping TODA 2472 M,
Quite a considerable difference. But the new TODA of 1875m is larger than Southend's, although TORA at Southampton marginally smaller. Southend saw flights to canary islands....
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 14:43
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
Quite a considerable difference. But the new TODA of 1875m is larger than Southend's, although TORA at Southampton marginally smaller. Southend saw flights to canary islands....
Isnt Southend Tora 1799,mtrs,SOU 1814mtrs?
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 15:00
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I must have the old charts
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 16:16
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
I must have the old charts
Try the latest issue of the UK AIP, AIRAC 12:
https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAI...dex-en-GB.html
Part 2 Aerodromes, scroll down to Southampton for the latest declared distances and the new Aerodrome Chart which depicts the extended runway.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 12th Oct 2023 at 16:17. Reason: correction
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 16:23
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Originally Posted by RW20
Isnt Southend Tora 1799,mtrs,SOU 1814mtrs?
Comparing SOU RWY 20 and SEN RWY 23, SOU's declared distances are all greater than SEN, albeit that the LDA is only 1 metre greater.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 16:26
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
Just a thought, could the 300 series work performance wise with Jet2? They have a year or two left in them and carry 150 pax so maybe an option, although locals might not be so keen with increased noise levels
We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 16:35
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!
Yes, I remember it well! The afternoon departure usually coincided with arriving home from School and Mum always referred to it as the ĎFour OíClock Earthquake!í
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 17:09
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!
In which case, base a couple of 300 series down from LBA and offer jet2 holidays to a dozen destinations, job done lol!
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 18:32
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
Growth in this market can come from using bigger aircraft, easyJet are moving from away from A319s to A320/A321, Ryanair have 20% more seats in the MAX vs. the B737-800. So on a per movement basis, there is still quite some scope for growth at LGW and STN. For example LHR was declared full in 1977 and has continued to grow ever since using ever larger aircraft. What that does mean is that the likes of SEN and SOU will have to do more than just wait for the other London airports to max out. The old SOU model of higher cost, high frequency business traffic on low volume aircraft may well have seen it's best days behind us now, and a move towards high volume low cost, low frequency won't come easily. I am not convinced SEN will ever make money again now that bubble has popped, it wiil be interesting to see how SOU manage the upcoming changes.
Correct to some extent but good luck getting new aircraft anytime soon. Slots are at a premium especially for the A321. EZY just put a new order to their board that wonít see its first aircraft until 2029.

Also I donít think SOU envisage a largish base and nor will any prospective operators. The likes of LGW, STN etc are a pain in many ways and when ever anyone uses them they suck up the fact itís going to involve a lot of waiting, hassle etc but on balance they can bear it to get the cheap ticket. SOU is more about convenience and being a quick and hassle free experience. As a result people are happy to pay a bit more for that privilege. A smallish but decent low cost carrier base should still deliver this experience provided the right changes are made to facilitate it. So far we have seen with the runway extension and stand realignment. Maybe next is improvements to the security, baggage, northern taxiway etc and eventually the terminal expansion? SOU gives a low cost operator the opportunity to go after a different market and also charge more for tickets. Is it really that hard to see why this might be attractive to them?

I am not familiar with when SEN started to decline but was it not around the time covid hit? If so, of course being an ancillary operation to the main London airports (like SOU would be) it lost its routes whilst operators retrenched to smaller bases at the large airports.
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Old 15th Oct 2023, 10:30
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Correct to some extent but good luck getting new aircraft anytime soon. Slots are at a premium especially for the A321. EZY just put a new order to their board that wonít see its first aircraft until 2029.

Also I donít think SOU envisage a largish base and nor will any prospective operators. The likes of LGW, STN etc are a pain in many ways and when ever anyone uses them they suck up the fact itís going to involve a lot of waiting, hassle etc but on balance they can bear it to get the cheap ticket. SOU is more about convenience and being a quick and hassle free experience. As a result people are happy to pay a bit more for that privilege. A smallish but decent low cost carrier base should still deliver this experience provided the right changes are made to facilitate it. So far we have seen with the runway extension and stand realignment. Maybe next is improvements to the security, baggage, northern taxiway etc and eventually the terminal expansion? SOU gives a low cost operator the opportunity to go after a different market and also charge more for tickets. Is it really that hard to see why this might be attractive to them?

I am not familiar with when SEN started to decline but was it not around the time covid hit? If so, of course being an ancillary operation to the main London airports (like SOU would be) it lost its routes whilst operators retrenched to smaller bases at the large airports.
Arrived back on Saturday 14/10 ( with BA Cityflyer from Palma,bang on time 19-40),a few observations : first we parked on the new stands in the cul-de -sac,certainly bigger,
ground crew were excellent ,left the terminal with cases by 20-05!. Im not sure the arrivals international will cope if two 320s were in,as there isnt alot of room in the passport control. Cityflyer were excellent,its a shame that they coudnt establish a full Summer base from the airport,maybe advertising wasnt up to scratch
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Old 15th Oct 2023, 16:04
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Originally Posted by RW20
Arrived back on Saturday 14/10 ( with BA Cityflyer from Palma,bang on time 19-40),a few observations : first we parked on the new stands in the cul-de -sac,certainly bigger,
ground crew were excellent ,left the terminal with cases by 20-05!. Im not sure the arrivals international will cope if two 320s were in,as there isnt alot of room in the passport control. Cityflyer were excellent,its a shame that they coudnt establish a full Summer base from the airport,maybe advertising wasnt up to scratch
l was also on that flight last night ,Excellent I think thatís the fastest I have ever been from landing ,waiting for luggage and outside in 25 minutes.
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Old 15th Oct 2023, 17:38
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How many other flights were in?
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Old 15th Oct 2023, 18:31
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
How many other flights were in?
I think we know the answer to that
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Old 15th Oct 2023, 19:49
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
We've come a long way with noise. Still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!
I'm just picking up on that story as it brings back happy memories from that era. Nostalgia is something that I am hugely interested in.

​​​​As we are fully aware, British United Airways was taken over by Caledonian Airways in 1970 to form British Caledonian Airways.

From 1970, British Caledonian Airways operated the GLA-SOU BAC 1-11 flights. In 1971, BCAL increased GLA-SOU to daily.

BUA introduced the BAC 1-11-200 on GLA-SOU in June 1968, replacing the Viscount 800, which previously operated the route. The route at that time operated daily except for Saturdays.

BCAL made huge cuts to their network in 1974, which included the axing of their GLA-SOU route. The Last BCAL GLA-SOU flight was in late September 1974

Cambrian Airways from 1971 operated a BAC 1-11-400 on their Cardiff-Bristol-Southampton-Paris Le Bourget-Southampton-Bristol-Cardiff routing. The airlines Viscount fleet originally operated this route before the BAC 1-11.

The Cambrian Airways BAC 1-11 used to fly into Southampton twice daily except for Saturdays. On both the outbound and inbound flights from Paris Le Bourget.

The BCAL BAC 1-11 from GLA would usually be on the ground at SOU in between the Cambrian Airways BAC 1-11 from Paris LBG. from 1971 to late September 1974, Southampton witnessed up to three daily BAC 1-11 movements.

CS 3707

CARDIFF 09.30
BRISTOL 09.50
BRISTOL 10.10
SOUTHAMPTON 10.40
SOUTHAMPTON 11.00
PARIS LBG 13.15 +1

CS 3708

PARIS LBG 15.00+1
SOUTHAMPTON 15.20
SOUTHAMPTON 15.40
BRISTOL 16.10
BRISTOL 16.30
CARDIFF 16.50

BR 841

GLASGOW 12.05
SOUTHAMPTON 13.20
SOUTHAMPTON 14.00
GLASGOW 15.10

From 1975 until 1980, there was the very occasional visit of a British Airways BAC 1-11-400 operating on their Jersey to Southampton route.

I can remember the Cambrian Airways and BCAL BAC 1-11s flying over our house when I was a young lad. My friends and I would then often cycle to the airport to witness their departures. On a couple of occasions, both the Cambrian and BCAL BAC 1-11s were on the ground together.

On a side note, it is related to the BAC 1-11. I can vividly remember in the late 1970s seeing two British Airways BAC 1-11s and three British Airways Viscounts on the ground together at SOU due to a strike at LHR. It was a Sunday if I remember correctly. The apron was rather busy on that particular day along with the usual BIA Herald movements.

Last edited by Sotonsean; 16th Oct 2023 at 00:07.
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Old 16th Oct 2023, 00:26
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I wanted to post this CGI that I just came across online. I'm not making any suggestions or getting carried away but it makes for an interesting image.


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Old 16th Oct 2023, 00:37
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It is from here: https://fselite.net/content/review-i...s-southampton/ It's an impressive rendering of the airport that's for sure.
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Old 16th Oct 2023, 00:44
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Originally Posted by adfly
It is from here: https://fselite.net/content/review-i...s-southampton/ It's an impressive rendering of the airport that's for sure.
It sure is as are all of the others 👍

You were extremely quick with the response. Good for you 👍

I was half expecting the first response to be from one of several contributors to this forum who regularly posts rumours. I was looking forward to their great fanfare. You've ruined the party now 😉

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