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Southampton-3

Old 20th Dec 2023, 18:56
  #2621 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
All Flybe 2 Dash 8s had 78 seats
Not that the exact number matters, but my point was that the EMB and the Dash 8 aren't that different in size compared with the average LCC a/c.

To try and maintain some stability and future growth SOU could do with a range of operators serving different destinations and routes, that way it can try and protect itself from market swings and failures. Over dependence on a single market sector or operator can drop you in it.
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 20:48
  #2622 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wycombe
"No-fly cruise" just means that it's a cruise where there's not a flight, or flights, built into the package - as opposed to a "fly-cruise" where the flights are included (as I did last month, flying on a Tui charter for P&O to join their ship in Barbados). It doesn't mean that you might not need to fly (at your own cost/by your own arrangements) to the point where the cruise starts from.
You beat me to it, well done you sir. A great explanation for a very misguided comment.
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 20:52
  #2623 (permalink)  
 
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You blame Loganair for SOU not being where it "should be"? You really do have a chip on your shoulder with LM. Your inability to get your head round the fact that flybe failed exactly because of the reasons highlighted above is worrying. That business model isn't profitable, it never, ever was. Let it go and move on.
Thank you - I was wondering if someone would intervene to defend common sense and you have.

There is another real issue here. easyJet is getting rid of the 319s over the next few years. You can already see from the CAA stats that it does a worse job of filling seats on the smaller A319s than it does on the 320 and 321s flown on the UK AOC. That can only mean they have some shorter routes where the 319 is already too big. When those aircraft go, you're left with flying a 320 as your smallest aircraft on routes where they can't fill a 319 today. I don't think that's good news for some of the region-to-region flying that goes on today.

And the risks of SOU becoming overly dependent on one carrier are all too obvious given the Flybe fallout. But I do agree that Lufthansa's love-in with the UK regions seems to be over in a big way, and I'd not be placing bets on them appearing at SOU (or anywhere else, for that matter) any time soon if the likes of Bristol is being pulled.
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 21:34
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AlbertHall - you make a fair point about Easyjet with A319/A320 aircraft and SOU.
If not Easyjet... who should SOU be targetting to bring in more pax ? It seems like SOU is too big to be a niche airport but doesn't yet have the passenger numbers to be commercially viable as a private company. My feeling is that SOU needs to get maybe another 200k or 300k pax through the door each year, spending on parking, duty free, etc... but apart from Easyjet I can't see any better... do you have ideas ?
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 21:52
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
AlbertHall - you make a fair point about Easyjet with A319/A320 aircraft and SOU.
If not Easyjet... who should SOU be targetting to bring in more pax ? It seems like SOU is too big to be a niche airport but doesn't yet have the passenger numbers to be commercially viable as a private company. My feeling is that SOU needs to get maybe another 200k or 300k pax through the door each year, spending on parking, duty free, etc... but apart from Easyjet I can't see any better... do you have ideas ?
Isnít that exactly what the airport intend on doing next year?
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 22:09
  #2626 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
Isnít that exactly what the airport intend on doing next year?
I would hope it is what SOU management intend to do... but people on this thread seem so questioning and doubtful towards Easyjet, that I'm wondering if maybe there's somebody here with a realistic idea for something better.
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 22:27
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They seem to be lacking focus from a leader who champions the airport, a trait amongst the AGS group unfortunately. GLA are gettting their arses kicked by the aviation dev team at EDI, ditto ABZ. BOH have managed growth by having a more proactive leader. Even Teeside that was regarded as the runt of the litter by Peel has managed growth by having an aggressive airline dev team. Who's doing that for SOU?
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 22:31
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It's a shame that Blue Islands has become so insular since the pandemic - they had originally planned to take on the now-dormant SOU-MAN route after Flybe. A couple of SOU-based ATR72s would also be very opportune for flying into France which is a gap remaining in SOU's route network that, beyond MAN, is probably the most obvious one needing to be filled and able to support capacity of ATR72 size. An Airbus is way too big for that, but a couple of based aircraft like that could comfortably add 200k pax per year at SOU.
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 22:40
  #2629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
I would hope it is what SOU management intend to do... but people on this thread seem so questioning and doubtful towards Easyjet, that I'm wondering if maybe there's somebody here with a realistic idea for something better.
Donít think realistic and certain members on here actually exist. Seems the most toxic thread on this forum
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 22:46
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Plenty of threads on this website have their own fantasists. Well-argued logic with data to back up one's proposition can often persuade an audience.... it worked for the ancient Greeks while living in Athens and should work on the SOU thread as well. I would like to thank those who posted in the last few days on this thread - I have learned a lot (in a good way !) by reading your comments.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 00:34
  #2631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
I would hope it is what SOU management intend to do... but people on this thread seem so questioning and doubtful towards Easyjet, that I'm wondering if maybe there's somebody here with a realistic idea for something better.
I think EZY are being questioned for jumping on routes which already have operators. There would seem to be plenty of other unserved routes that are available for them to build a presence at SOU.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 07:30
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You can hardly blame EZY for starting on routes where there is proven demand. Makes business sense.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 07:53
  #2633 (permalink)  
 
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EZY are being questioned for jumping on routes from SOU which already have operators.....Seriously?
Hats off to them I say - It's a fair start, so what more do we want?

They are attempting to open up to a wider clientele on the UK Domestic scene. (cheaper and hopefully better than the likes of the current incumbents)
I did recently critique here the fact that they are not always flying daily on the Domestics, but I will live with that.
I can now get to Liverpool or Manchester in less than time than ever for £40-£60


They do rather well on the Winter Swiss/French Alps SKI scene.

They are replacing much of BA's rather sad sorry attempt on the Summer Sunshine Leisure routes, and EZY will be going to Faro, Palma and Alicante.

There is frankly no one else that can step into SOU with such Operations, albeit for now, without a fixed Base at SOU, as EZY have to use their aircraft based at the UK outstations or overseas bases in Europe, which will always be the limiting factor on anymore new destinations they can offer.

IF
Jet2 were to ever come South, then maybe SOU could be in their sights for a Base, but their new A320N's are not due for 4-5 years...

Last edited by rog747; 21st Dec 2023 at 07:57. Reason: grammar
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 08:16
  #2634 (permalink)  
 
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EZY are being questioned for jumping on routes from SOU which already have operators.....Seriously?
Hats off to them I say - It's a fair start, so what more do we want?
It's a fair point to say operate where there is proven demand, but the risk is you weaken the encumbent operator and end up with an EZY domestic network operating at random dates and times. Wouldn't the airport prefer new customers rather than having a battle over existing one's?

I did recently critique here the fact that they are not always flying daily on the Domestics, but I will live with that. I can now get to Liverpool or Manchester in less than time than ever for £40-£60
I would guess that such novel itineries will remain a minority taste!

They are replacing much of BA's rather sad sorry attempt on the Summer Sunshine Leisure routes, and EZY will be going to Faro, Palma and Alicante. There is frankly no one else that can step into SOU with such Operations, albeit for now, without a fixed Base at SOU, as EZY have to use their aircraft based at the UK outstations or overseas bases in Europe, which will always be the limiting factor on anymore new destinations they can offer.
I agree - the Cityflyer operation never looked long term, have they stuck at anything in trying to find work when LCY is shut? I think the better option for SOU would have been for EZY to concentrate on the sunshine routes.

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Old 21st Dec 2023, 09:06
  #2635 (permalink)  
 
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easyJet make better money on longer routes into Europe due to a higher demand for on board service, hence the domestics are a lower priority and that's reflected in relatively poor frequency or sub optimal timings. Given they have a virtual monopoly on a few core routes they don't have much pressure to raise their game. Basically they seem to wedge in a domestic spin in between more lucrative continental trips. So expect an improved volume but likely at the risk of frequency. And I guess you can't have everything so take that as a win.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
easyJet make better money on longer routes into Europe due to a higher demand for on board service, hence the domestics are a lower priority and that's reflected in relatively poor frequency or sub optimal timings. Given they have a virtual monopoly on a few core routes they don't have much pressure to raise their game. Basically they seem to wedge in a domestic spin in between more lucrative continental trips. So expect an improved volume but likely at the risk of frequency. And I guess you can't have everything so take that as a win.
You make some valid points here and agree that their main focus will always be on foreign travel, however core domestics are also important for their full fleet utilisation and because of this I could see one further from SOU being operated and thatís MAN. Having Scotland, NI and northern England covered gives easyJet some certainty on pax volumes to key regional cities and also fulfils the gap in SOU network. MAN is a much missed shuttle and I donít see Loganair now taking up their slot requests owing to easyJet already hijacking GLA. With a daily, this could potentially add >100k seats to the airport although not sure MAN uses many 319 now and instead is primarily a 320/321 base?

Last edited by SKOJB; 21st Dec 2023 at 11:13.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 11:04
  #2637 (permalink)  
 
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Doubt you'll get a MAN shuttle from EZY. There is no reason they couldn't have been operating it since Flybe went bust.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 11:11
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Doubt you'll get a MAN shuttle from EZY. There is no reason they couldn't have been operating it since Flybe went bust.
True although Eastern were then on the route and disappeared and the same could be said about GLA/BFS, they have waited until recently to add these to their network!
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
It's a shame that Blue Islands has become so insular since the pandemic - they had originally planned to take on the now-dormant SOU-MAN route after Flybe. A couple of SOU-based ATR72s would also be very opportune for flying into France which is a gap remaining in SOU's route network that, beyond MAN, is probably the most obvious one needing to be filled and able to support capacity of ATR72 size. An Airbus is way too big for that, but a couple of based aircraft like that could comfortably add 200k pax per year at SOU.
I agree absolutely. Even a single based ATR72 could manage three Manchesters, or a couple of Manchesters and a Paris and possibly squeeze in a Jersey as well to allow aircraft to be rotated every so often.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 12:40
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Having dealt with Blue Islands in Jersey for a few years they are in no position to base an aircraft In Southampton and the associated costs that go with it

They can barely crew their own flights out of Jersey with local based cabin crew on minimum wage

The turn over of staff is high and the cost of multiple sectors from Jersey to Southampton and onto Manchester that was proposed never even got off the ground

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