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Southampton-3

Old 24th Jan 2024, 08:21
  #2821 (permalink)  
 
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Pain in the R's and davidjohnson6, while I would often agree with the sentiments, think you've misunderstood the specific point here. The reason that Albert Hall was saying that JER and GCI are 'borderline' PSOs isn't because he thinks they should be PSOs, it's because he's saying they already are. This alludes to the level of demand on the routes from tickets paid for by each island's Health department for islanders receiving treatment on the mainland.

SOU-ACI is already a PSO, funded by the States of Guernsey. The agreement isn't published but for a minimum of 2x flights per day on SOU-ACI and 4x flights per day (with the exception of a few winter weekends at 3x) on GCI-ACI, Aurigny is paid around £2m per year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eur...rnsey-57575548
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 10:11
  #2822 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
Everyone seems very quick to forget this thing we had called a pandemic which changed working practices, changed the way in which much business takes place (on a quick-fire series of Teams or Zoom meetings instead of days out of the office on business travel) and the minor issue that we have a cost of living crisis going on which is impacting discretionary spend on all sorts of things from cinemas to air travel.

You cannot say that because Flybe carried X in 2019 on any given route, it should now be carrying Y today - it doesn't matter whether it's Loganair, easyJet or Timbuktu Airways as the operator. The world has changed. All of those factors have affected the demand for air travel in different ways on different routes, depending on what the customer base was for that route before the pandemic and now.

Even in Flybe's day their frequencies were up and down like a yo-yo. NCL-SOU was generally 3pd. EDI-SOU went between 4 and 6 and might even have hit 7 for a short time. MAN-SOU was generally 5 but at different times was 4 or 6. Does a 3pd Q400 back in 2019 translate into a 2pd E145 today to service the demand which is still there on the route? Quite possibly.

It's incredible how quick people are to forget about all of these factors when deciding what airlines should and shouldn't be doing! And if I was Air Baltic (which I'm not) then I'd have thought the possibility of setting up a UK AOC to fly some short domestic sectors with A220s would probably be somewhere at the bottom of my list of priorities, if not off the bottom of it completely.


The after effects of the Pandemic has certainly completely altered my travel patterns and those of most of my colleagues and clients. I regularly used flights from SOU to Newcastle, Manchester and Dublin but haven't travelled to any of these destinations on business for over four years, the rise of the widespread use of Teams and WhatsApp has completely taken away the need to travel for business in most cases. The days of nearly full 78-seat turboprops criss-crossing the country multiple times a day with business travellers has well and truly ended and I agree that the likely future of domestic air travel between regional centres (excluding London) will likely be just one or two flights a day, perhaps a few days a week, by the low-cost operators where they feel there is sufficient demand.
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 12:27
  #2823 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 22/04
Loganair and Eastern are the only long term survivors in the UK regional airline sector, the latter arguably only because it is bank rolled. Everyone else has either gone bust or pulled - out the best example of the latter is BA, who gave up on it years ago. For some, (EasyJet) the UK domestic market is a very small part of the overall operation.

Loganair have survived by being very conservative- they will never over supply, they will just make a decent yield and offer a frequency on which they can sustain that probably around 2 -3 flights per day. They can always retreat to Bonnie Scotland and the subsidies available there.

Without any prospect of PSO routes Southampton will have to survive - by attracting airlines -as Teesside has arguably done or relying on operators believing they can make money. _ it's no good begging to airlines to come and do more.
There is a perception of many that LM are bankrolled by the Scottish Government, they certainly aren't.
Barra, Tiree, Campbeltown, Western Isles link from Inverness and the Orkney inter-island services are the only subsidised PSO's.



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Old 24th Jan 2024, 12:54
  #2824 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tallaonejuliet
There is a perception of many that LM are bankrolled by the Scottish Government, they certainly aren't.
Barra, Tiree, Campbeltown, Western Isles link from Inverness and the Orkney inter-island services are the only subsidised PSO's.
Not quite, there’s Heathrow to Derry and Dundee.
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 13:47
  #2825 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave
Not quite, there’s Heathrow to Derry and Dundee.
Ahh, Dundee how could I forget. It's really funded by Lorraine Kelly if the truth be told.
Splitting hairs here, but Heathrow to Derry isn't Bonnie Scotland related.......
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 14:36
  #2826 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SotonFlightpath
The after effects of the Pandemic has certainly completely altered my travel patterns and those of most of my colleagues and clients. I regularly used flights from SOU to Newcastle, Manchester and Dublin but haven't travelled to any of these destinations on business for over four years, the rise of the widespread use of Teams and WhatsApp has completely taken away the need to travel for business in most cases. The days of nearly full 78-seat turboprops criss-crossing the country multiple times a day with business travellers has well and truly ended and I agree that the likely future of domestic air travel between regional centres (excluding London) will likely be just one or two flights a day, perhaps a few days a week, by the low-cost operators where they feel there is sufficient demand.
While I agree it's certainly still suppressed, the trend at the moment is still moving in a direction that is getting closer to what we had pre-Covid - how close it gets remains to be seen. A lot of industry trade shows and conventions are only just starting to get re-established. Certainly in my sector (tech) B2B sales departments are desperate to get back face to face with potential customers so they can demonstrate their products. Presenteeism is well and truly back too. I completely agree though that demand probably won't get back to the levels we saw pre-Covid, so there has to be a happy halfway point.

With the MAN-SOU route, for the first 4 months of last year it was growing at an average of 134% year on year, until Eastern decided to ditch the route. That was based upon one flight per day. If Eastern had reached two flights each way per day (as they planned to before they abandoned it) I'm sure it would have continued to grow, with a service level that seems a fair compromise on what it was pre-Covid.
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 15:02
  #2827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tallaonejuliet
Ahh, Dundee how could I forget. It's really funded by Lorraine Kelly if the truth be told.
Splitting hairs here, but Heathrow to Derry isn't Bonnie Scotland related.......
Splitting hairs here, but none of this as regards to PSOs is even "Bonnie Southampton related".
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 15:44
  #2828 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
Splitting hairs here, but none of this as regards to PSOs is even "Bonnie Southampton related".
Oooft, who's nicked your chips?
The basis of my post can be found in this very thread, lighten up Sean..
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Old 26th Jan 2024, 07:56
  #2829 (permalink)  
 
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Loganair CEO Hinkles leaves

Loganair CEO Hinkles leaves with board approval – Daily Business (dailybusinessgroup.co.uk)
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 16:11
  #2830 (permalink)  
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https://www.southamptonairport.com/n...mpton-airport/



Last edited by stewyb; 31st Jan 2024 at 16:30.
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 17:41
  #2831 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully he can attract much needed Summer routes that have not materialised ,but are much needed for the airport long term survival

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Old 31st Jan 2024, 17:50
  #2832 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RW20
Hopefully he can attract much needed Summer routes that have not materialised ,but are much needed for the airport long term survival

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I see that the record is still broken. We are all in agreement but do we have to read the same thing from you over and over again 🤔 😕
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 18:30
  #2833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
I see that the record is still broken. We are all in agreement but do we have to read the same thing from you over and over again 🤔 😕
And you still continue to criticise without any constructive points


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Old 31st Jan 2024, 20:12
  #2834 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RW20
And you still continue to criticise without any constructive points
It's not about constructive points as you keep going on about. It's the fact that you continuously post the same thing over and over again. New routes, airports survival, etc, etc. It's the second month of 2024 tomorrow and we're still reading the same comments from you as we did in the entirety of 2023.

As I stated, it's like a broken record and it's not constructive in any way just annoying.
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 21:25
  #2835 (permalink)  
 
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As post 2828 states ,lighten up ! ,you seem to agitate other posters as well.
You might need one of the Easy Sun holidays to calm yourself!
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 22:40
  #2836 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RW20
As post 2828 states ,lighten up ! ,you seem to agitate other posters as well.
You might need one of the Easy Sun holidays to calm yourself!
I'm pleased that you wrote "as well".

FYI....I prefer to use my avios with BA to go to more distant destinations than ever contemplating an "Easy Sun holiday".

On the Gatwick thread I usually write "who's next" as regards to new airline announcements.

I'm going to type this on the Southampton thread.

When RW20 types the same repetitive comments yet again and for the umpteenth time I'm going to write "when next".

I refer you to posts 2798 and 2799.

Last edited by Sotonsean; 31st Jan 2024 at 23:53.
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Old 1st Feb 2024, 06:28
  #2837 (permalink)  
 
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IMO an Airport Operations Director is not the Commercial Director.

The Commercial Director and their Team, are the people that should be actively seeking dialogue with the current and new airline business.
They should also be at the fore of the Advertising/Local Press and social media Teams, and in dialogue with local Travel Agents and Tour Operators.

An Ops Director is the person that makes sure the Airfield runs properly and legally, with all the relevant Agencies, CAA/ATC/AFS etc etc, and ensures the Contracts for the Ground and Ramp Handling Services are in situ with the Airlines to meet demand, and are all in order (and much more in dealing with the actual safe running of the Airport).

Re new SOU Routes and Adverts:

I have to say EasyJet Holidays have been running a TV advert on local television (Meridian) and on the big national channels too, constantly over the past few weeks,
mostly aired at Peak Viewing Times, but with no mention of the new Southampton Airport holiday routes.
The Ad has to be said is, bland and dull, and whoever signed this off for TV simply has no clue how to market summer holidays on TV.
TUI's TV Ad this year is only a little better, but again is uninspiring.

The snazzy and upbeat Jet2holidays TV advert wins hands down.
It makes one actually feel like looking at Jet2 after seeing their Ad and wanting a holiday.

IMO it's a great shame they (Jet2) did not want to take on TUI (and FR) at Bournemouth with a new Base, and give them all a run for their money.
Sadly Jet2 cannot get into SOU with the Boeing - If they had the A320Neos' right now then they would have seen off EasyJet and been in direct competition with TUI at BOH.
I like TUI and don't have a beef with them, but we do like ''choice''.

Last edited by rog747; 1st Feb 2024 at 06:44. Reason: grammar
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Old 1st Feb 2024, 08:11
  #2838 (permalink)  
 
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Surprised - as it was a first for me - to hear an advert for Southampton Airport on talkSPORT today; it mentioned both British Airways and EasyJet (new routes). TalkSPORT has 3.5m listeners per week (only the national BBC and LBC stations are higher) so it appears the airport marketing department are starting to do their thing (at last I hear some of you say). Of course the advertising needs to be expanded into a number of other areas, time will tell.....
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Old 1st Feb 2024, 21:17
  #2839 (permalink)  
 
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All this talk of doom and gloom and needing new routes etc yet when good news is posted it’s conveniently ignored. Take the recent announcement that the AMS route is going 3 daily for example. How many replies did that get? Sad state of affairs on here.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 06:58
  #2840 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B170ppl
Surprised - as it was a first for me - to hear an advert for Southampton Airport on talkSPORT today; it mentioned both British Airways and EasyJet (new routes). TalkSPORT has 3.5m listeners per week (only the national BBC and LBC stations are higher) so it appears the airport marketing department are starting to do their thing (at last I hear some of you say).
Of course the advertising needs to be expanded into a number of other areas, time will tell.....
Thanks for the heads up.
And yes, that's a move forward from SOU's Commercial and Media/Press Dept.

I for one do not listen to, nor are a Sports, or a Footie fan, nor are any of my Pals.
My nephews have Season Tickets at Spurs and at West Ham who live locally here in Dorset, and one in the East of the Meridian TV area (still a SOU catchment area)
I will ask them if they listen to TalkSport.
I know they listen to local Radio Wave 105 and Greatest Hits Radio (which was Wessex FM).
BBC Radio Solent is the BBC's local radio station serving Hampshire, Dorset and the Isle of Wight, and has a weekly audience of 204,000 listeners and a 4.2% share as of September 2023, but of course is not a Commercial Station with Ads.

I've had a root through the local rags The Southern Echo, The Hampshire Chronicle, plus The Bournemouth Daily Echo, and The Dorset Echo but there is little in the way of reporting nor any advertising of the new routes in the past few months. There are a couple of 'announcement' articles in Nov, and in Jan but it's all rather ''small''.
(No Press reports were found when searching in the Chronicle)

I popped into the 3 Travel Agents in Dorchester this week, and one in Westbourne (Poole BH4) and asked them what they knew about SOU's new routes.
They all knew about them but had not had any proper 'Agency Sales' nor Sales Rep promo's and feedback requests.

They would sell them, (both flights and holidays) but they do sell BOH EXT and BRS as their 1st options for Holidays, but 2 of them often sell the SOU KLM flights with long haul onward flights for some regular customers, and all have regulars for Loganair to NCL and GLA, plus other customers for BFS and DUB.
They do (of course) sell SOU for the Channel Islands flights and holidays (well, that's a no brainer)
The SOU-GVA winter Ski flights has had some local uptake here, but only if the BOH flights have been full, but the BA Chambery from SOU has been very popular.
They all miss the loss of Flybe's Verona (twice weekly summer) and to Salzburg (summer and winter) both from SOU.
KLM's 3rd daily flight was on their radar and posted on SOU's X and Facebook.
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