Southampton-3
Brunel to Concorde
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The Welsh Government that owns Cardiff Airport formally objected to Bristol Airport's expansion planning application which was rejected last year by North Somerset Council (the rejection decision is currently subject of appeal). In the mid-1990s when BAE sought permission to set up a city airport at Filton one of the objectors to the plan was Bristol Airport. The secretary of state rejected the BAE application after a planning enquiry.
It's about businesses trying to protect their own interests. There is nothing illegal or immoral about it.
It's about businesses trying to protect their own interests. There is nothing illegal or immoral about it.
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Rivet Joint
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“ Oh, and there were two objectors it turns out! Guess who the second objector was? BOH airport! Absolutely vile business! Personally there should be repercussions for that kind of behaviour. “
What do you expect exactly, public flogging , named and shamed or how about being pulled up and asked to explain to a “ Select committee “
It’s business and all companies do it , get over yourself
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“ Oh, and there were two objectors it turns out! Guess who the second objector was? BOH airport! Absolutely vile business! Personally there should be repercussions for that kind of behaviour. “
What do you expect exactly, public flogging , named and shamed or how about being pulled up and asked to explain to a “ Select committee “
It’s business and all companies do it , get over yourself
Last edited by MARKEYD; 20th Oct 2021 at 17:15.
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BOH has every right to show displeasure not least because they clearly see it as a threat, however their appeal is quite frankly futile and its now obvious that the extension will take place, just when and not if. Understand still on track for S23 opening!
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it's pretty obvious that Bournemouth airport are going to object as the Southampton planning permission is a threat to there business.
However I'm sure there will be a few twists to the story yet before any work will begin.
There might be questions now on "is it really necessary" ,given BA involvement and future short field performance aircraft in the pipeline
However I'm sure there will be a few twists to the story yet before any work will begin.
There might be questions now on "is it really necessary" ,given BA involvement and future short field performance aircraft in the pipeline
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It is fair to say that this is pretty normal practice, during the Airport Commission process (remember that big development debate!?) easyJet came out publicly against LGW development and BA against LHR, neither airline wanted the additional capacity that would give competitors free reign at their main bases.
In the end still nothing has been built, nor is likely in the foreseeable.
The good news for SOU is that for the time being, the existing infrastructure is just fine and the airport will rub along nicely as traffic recovers and corporate aircraft usage grows.
The bad news is that in the medium term the aircraft du jour will increasingly be A321neo - see Wizz, Jet2, Ezy, BA etc. These 235 seat aircraft need big stands and bigger runways.
For TUI & RYR its already the Max, which is smaller and less constrained.
In the end still nothing has been built, nor is likely in the foreseeable.
The good news for SOU is that for the time being, the existing infrastructure is just fine and the airport will rub along nicely as traffic recovers and corporate aircraft usage grows.
The bad news is that in the medium term the aircraft du jour will increasingly be A321neo - see Wizz, Jet2, Ezy, BA etc. These 235 seat aircraft need big stands and bigger runways.
For TUI & RYR its already the Max, which is smaller and less constrained.
Great news that the last hurdle has now been passed. Did not see any "no win/no fee" provision for the NIMBYs/tree huggers that contributed to the crowdfunding on the AXO wensite, so presume they will not get their money back!
When work finally commences would love to know the cunning plan for retaining the 20 displaced threshold in place. As its 45 metres from the beginning of paved surface the remainder of the 60 metre pre-threshold runway strip-end and RESA is grass, and therefore subject to excavation. If planned right it could be a case of night work to excavate/backfill to restore the surface for next morning's ops. This of course will also be the case for the 02 overrun strip-end and RESA.
Will be watching the AIS website for relevant NOTAMs to see if they manage to do it
When work finally commences would love to know the cunning plan for retaining the 20 displaced threshold in place. As its 45 metres from the beginning of paved surface the remainder of the 60 metre pre-threshold runway strip-end and RESA is grass, and therefore subject to excavation. If planned right it could be a case of night work to excavate/backfill to restore the surface for next morning's ops. This of course will also be the case for the 02 overrun strip-end and RESA.
Will be watching the AIS website for relevant NOTAMs to see if they manage to do it
Last edited by TCAS FAN; 20th Oct 2021 at 14:22.
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SOU's extension should be done quickly to help support the incumbent carriers to operate more efficiently. For existing SOU operators using the ERJ-145's or even ERJ-190's they are hit with payload penalties which doesn't do anyone any favours. The E2 and A220 I believe will also need the longer runway length (?) to operate completely freely (unless i'm mistaken) - and these aircraft are not the model that BOH is interested in so I see no immediate threat.
Flitefone's comments about LCC's increasingly using A321NEO aircraft with over 220/230 seats is an important one. BOH and SOU will continue to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future in my opinion.
Flitefone's comments about LCC's increasingly using A321NEO aircraft with over 220/230 seats is an important one. BOH and SOU will continue to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future in my opinion.
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Ok to answer the usual suspects where did I state that there should be repercussions for BOH and not the other businesses that have carried out similar tactics? Of course businesses try to sue each other but there is always an element where a vaguely legitimate argument can cling to. More often than not if tax payer money is being used to help a competitor or there have been underhand tactics to steel business or distort markets.
Regardless of who it is I absolutely do not think anyone can justify one business trying to stop another business from investing its own money in its own business and I would be astounded if anyone on this forum thought differently.
let’s not forget that we are not talking about a letter of objection at the planning stage, which indeed BOH lodged and are entitled to do so. This latest revelation is that they submitted a challenge in the highest court in the land which isn’t exactly a place where you raise matters of this nature. I also think civilisation wouldn’t have come this far if rivals could simply stop competitors from investing their own money in their own business out of jealously or insecurity like BOH’s points seem to come down to. I suppose all the numerous shops that have gone out of business should have sued Amazon for putting them out of business? So when I talk about repercussions I mean for wasting the high courts time and for anti-competitive behaviour which by the way airlines have been fined for as do people who waste the courts time.
I want to make it clear that even when the extension is built I see it having pretty much no affect on BOH as FR and TUI have no interest in having a large base south of London and oldies in BOH are their customer base down here. I wonder if it’s fair to say that passenger flights aren’t even a big part of BOHs business as it has a diverse revenue stream. SOU Will just be able to open routes to further destinations and generate a higher yield by having less payload restrictions.
Regardless of who it is I absolutely do not think anyone can justify one business trying to stop another business from investing its own money in its own business and I would be astounded if anyone on this forum thought differently.
let’s not forget that we are not talking about a letter of objection at the planning stage, which indeed BOH lodged and are entitled to do so. This latest revelation is that they submitted a challenge in the highest court in the land which isn’t exactly a place where you raise matters of this nature. I also think civilisation wouldn’t have come this far if rivals could simply stop competitors from investing their own money in their own business out of jealously or insecurity like BOH’s points seem to come down to. I suppose all the numerous shops that have gone out of business should have sued Amazon for putting them out of business? So when I talk about repercussions I mean for wasting the high courts time and for anti-competitive behaviour which by the way airlines have been fined for as do people who waste the courts time.
I want to make it clear that even when the extension is built I see it having pretty much no affect on BOH as FR and TUI have no interest in having a large base south of London and oldies in BOH are their customer base down here. I wonder if it’s fair to say that passenger flights aren’t even a big part of BOHs business as it has a diverse revenue stream. SOU Will just be able to open routes to further destinations and generate a higher yield by having less payload restrictions.
To our Chaps and all our good friends here -
Sorry to bang on and have yet another reality check here again but none of those types of aircraft mentioned are simply not yet in the mix for SOU airports' expansion plans.
BA were unable to fill up (even selling tickets at rock bottom prices) on many of it's flights this summer on their newly launched summer sun routes -
Yes, we know it was a most difficult summer, but that sort of business model may not stand the test of time.
But I really do hope BA return to SOU for 2022 as I will like to use them again.
As an aside observation from our neighbours at BOH, Easy Jet's 3 new BOH domestic routes (using A320Neo's much of the time) to BFS EDI and LPL, will end next week with no winter schedule for them. I heard that some of these flights (not in high season though for EDI and BFS which were more than 80%) were running at 30% - sorry I cannot amplify that much further, save to say that some folk who flew, and who did use the routes to LPL and EDI all said they would have continued to do so, but sadly all flights end next week.
I too, was about to book to LPL and EDI for NOV but alas now not to be.
TUI have a 737-800 at BOH for winter 2021/2022 flying one rotation on just 5 days of the week to only ACE LPA and TFS, with no WEDS or SAT flights allocated as yet. (TUI at EXT is the same)
Ryanair also fly a 737 on the same 2 days a week BOH-TFS (TUE and FRI) as do TUI, which is almost 800 seats a week to sell.
Ryanair's fares from BOH are from £4.99 to most of their destinations, with LPA and TFS from £14.99 and £19.99.
There is no flight to Palma this winter at all with any airline from BOH nor EXT, until they restart end of MAR/APR 2022.
So that is the current state of play with SOU's neighbours that CAN take the bigger planes that many here lament to see lined up and parked at SOU....Not gonna happen.
I am pleased to see that the PP is hopefully now un-stalled to go-ahead at SOU, but will BOH and SOU continue, as mentioned here, to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future?
Well, BOH and SOU are TBH, like chalk and cheese...
Sorry to bang on and have yet another reality check here again but none of those types of aircraft mentioned are simply not yet in the mix for SOU airports' expansion plans.
BA were unable to fill up (even selling tickets at rock bottom prices) on many of it's flights this summer on their newly launched summer sun routes -
Yes, we know it was a most difficult summer, but that sort of business model may not stand the test of time.
But I really do hope BA return to SOU for 2022 as I will like to use them again.
As an aside observation from our neighbours at BOH, Easy Jet's 3 new BOH domestic routes (using A320Neo's much of the time) to BFS EDI and LPL, will end next week with no winter schedule for them. I heard that some of these flights (not in high season though for EDI and BFS which were more than 80%) were running at 30% - sorry I cannot amplify that much further, save to say that some folk who flew, and who did use the routes to LPL and EDI all said they would have continued to do so, but sadly all flights end next week.
I too, was about to book to LPL and EDI for NOV but alas now not to be.
TUI have a 737-800 at BOH for winter 2021/2022 flying one rotation on just 5 days of the week to only ACE LPA and TFS, with no WEDS or SAT flights allocated as yet. (TUI at EXT is the same)
Ryanair also fly a 737 on the same 2 days a week BOH-TFS (TUE and FRI) as do TUI, which is almost 800 seats a week to sell.
Ryanair's fares from BOH are from £4.99 to most of their destinations, with LPA and TFS from £14.99 and £19.99.
There is no flight to Palma this winter at all with any airline from BOH nor EXT, until they restart end of MAR/APR 2022.
So that is the current state of play with SOU's neighbours that CAN take the bigger planes that many here lament to see lined up and parked at SOU....Not gonna happen.
I am pleased to see that the PP is hopefully now un-stalled to go-ahead at SOU, but will BOH and SOU continue, as mentioned here, to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future?
Well, BOH and SOU are TBH, like chalk and cheese...
Last edited by rog747; 21st Oct 2021 at 10:16.
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The planning permission won't be going ahead for sometime:
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/196...way-extension/
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/196...way-extension/
According to the Southern Echo "GOESA has the opportunity to renew the application for a judicial review at an oral hearing, and it intends to do that.", but have they actually done that within the apparent seven day limit?
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August stats are out for Southampton and unfortunately the BA operation has fared pretty poorly for them
Fares were heavily reduced but still hasn’t made much of an impact
Hopefully next summer things will improve
Bergerac 782 43 pax
Berlin 265 27 pax
Mykonos 120 15 pax
Faro 338 42 pax
Alicante 448 56 pax
Ibiza 641 36 pax
Malaga 700. 30 pax
Palma 1089 60 pax ( shared with TUI hols )
Fares were heavily reduced but still hasn’t made much of an impact
Hopefully next summer things will improve
Bergerac 782 43 pax
Berlin 265 27 pax
Mykonos 120 15 pax
Faro 338 42 pax
Alicante 448 56 pax
Ibiza 641 36 pax
Malaga 700. 30 pax
Palma 1089 60 pax ( shared with TUI hols )
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BA are returning for S22 and hopeful that numbers will improve. This summer season has seen unprecedented interruptions with many staycations taking place. Apart from Berlin which is to all intents and purposes a positioning flight and Mykonos, numbers although not brilliant are ok for half a season on a 98 seater. With a full summer ahead, people wanting to travel abroad again and with further marketing, BA will do just fine!
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Agreed. Figures this year are not a yardstick and the Alicante and Malaga figures are testament to that. BE served those for over 10 years at fares probably triple the price.
it would be interesting to see the figures for BA’s LCY routes. Obviously a more established base but would be a good comparison.
it would be interesting to see the figures for BA’s LCY routes. Obviously a more established base but would be a good comparison.
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LCY's figures were:
Bergerac- 1427
Berlin - 712
Faro - 2082
Ibiza - 8431
Malaga - 6990
Mykonos - 3861
Palma - 7444
Hard to know how they break down as a load factor as I'm not sure of the frequency. But those Ibiza figures break down to 21 full flights a week, which is quite impressive!
Bergerac- 1427
Berlin - 712
Faro - 2082
Ibiza - 8431
Malaga - 6990
Mykonos - 3861
Palma - 7444
Hard to know how they break down as a load factor as I'm not sure of the frequency. But those Ibiza figures break down to 21 full flights a week, which is quite impressive!
Grateful for the trouble you chaps take to collate the Pax figures and the load factors - are these based just on departures or on round trip traffic?
Just asking as LCY does not surely, have 3 daily IBZ flights...
Just asking as LCY does not surely, have 3 daily IBZ flights...
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The load factors are averaging roughly a passenger load on both an outbound and return flight
LCY does indeed have up to 3 flights a day to IBZ in July - Sept tremendously popular !!
I do agree that SOU has been hit badly by customer reaction to travelling abroad and Govt decisions on green / red list countries, but many over UK airports have seen good returning load factors to the Med
BA and SOU have done a lot of advertising and promotions for the flights , BA dropped many of the fares heavily but still pretty grim loads on some routes though
Good to see BA returning and keeping the faith
LCY does indeed have up to 3 flights a day to IBZ in July - Sept tremendously popular !!
I do agree that SOU has been hit badly by customer reaction to travelling abroad and Govt decisions on green / red list countries, but many over UK airports have seen good returning load factors to the Med
BA and SOU have done a lot of advertising and promotions for the flights , BA dropped many of the fares heavily but still pretty grim loads on some routes though
Good to see BA returning and keeping the faith
Just asking as LCY does not surely, have 3 daily IBZ flights...
(I think one of them returns to SOU)