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Old 4th May 2023, 18:45
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Originally Posted by laviation
Strange that BA only have 20 A320neo. I'm sure awaiting large order of at least 50 NEO's and a good few A350s and maybe 787s too. Don't think the 200 seat MAX aircraft are even for Euroflyer anyway
737ís are no good for BA LHR, not containerised. BA LGW slots are all still owned by BA, leased to VY, I2 and U2.
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Old 5th May 2023, 12:07
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Its been a while since I have flown with Jet2 but have just returned from a week in Rome flying from Manchester and found them spot on. Fast easy check in, comfortable aircraft (737, 24 years old but so what) and departures/arrivals on time or early. In flight food was good as well.

It occurs to me that if Jet2 want to expand at Manchester, maybe they should try long haul. 3 times weekly to Cancun for example would be popular as the only current option is TUI, whos service on that route was woeful last year.
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Old 5th May 2023, 12:20
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Long haul you say?
flyglobespan anyone?
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Old 5th May 2023, 12:37
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No comparison Jet2 is a superb operation Globespan a bit toy town
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Old 5th May 2023, 13:58
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
Long haul you say?
flyglobespan anyone?
Jet2 have a stable business behind them and there are viable routes to compete on. Im not talking about daily services to the States and Mexico just a limited 2/3 times a week to CUN with only one competitor on the route who has a really bad service offering at the moment.
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Old 5th May 2023, 14:15
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Originally Posted by Danny G
Jet2 have a stable business behind them and there are viable routes to compete on. Im not talking about daily services to the States and Mexico just a limited 2/3 times a week to CUN with only one competitor on the route who has a really bad service offering at the moment.
Jet2 is more a holiday company now, so it's not so much the competition on flights but the accomodation available at the other end that matters for destinations such as Cancun. Jet2 would need to be able to offer a good selection.
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Old 5th May 2023, 14:58
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Jet2 is more a holiday company now, so it's not so much the competition on flights but the accomodation available at the other end that matters for destinations such as Cancun. Jet2 would need to be able to offer a good selection.
Not just accommodation, but what aircraft would you propose that Jet2 use for it? Unlikely that their current leased A330s are suitable. An all economy config is difficult to make work in terms of yields, so some kind of premium offering might be required... and that is quite a change from the current Jet2 product offering (no matter how good you think their existing products to be).

And sending widebodies on long sectors brings with it a whole new world of potential engineering, hotac and sub-charter problems. Not just as easy as instantly launching a hot spare from a UK base to the Caribbean to bring back delayed pax if your long haul a/c goes tech on departure. All that works very well now for the short haul network.
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Old 5th May 2023, 16:34
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Originally Posted by UnderASouthernSky
Not just accommodation, but what aircraft would you propose that Jet2 use for it? Unlikely that their current leased A330s are suitable. An all economy config is difficult to make work in terms of yields, so some kind of premium offering might be required... and that is quite a change from the current Jet2 product offering (no matter how good you think their existing products to be).

And sending widebodies on long sectors brings with it a whole new world of potential engineering, hotac and sub-charter problems. Not just as easy as instantly launching a hot spare from a UK base to the Caribbean to bring back delayed pax if your long haul a/c goes tech on departure. All that works very well now for the short haul network.

Yep I understand all that, but at the moment the only option out of Manchester is TUI unless you want to change down route. Yes Jet 2 may need to consider what equipemt to use but I think all economy could work if you are not going every day. Most airlines only offered one class back in the 90s so why not now. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and jump, start small and go from there. Manchester based aircraft, large catchment area and already a market.

Theres only so much expansion possible in the European market and it is very close to saturation now. Yes you can start using other airports but you then get into slot problems and need a lot more base staff.

The Caribbean is an expanding market, with countries like Mexico (I use it because thats where I have most experience) still expanding their resorts. Its not that long ago everyone said Jet2 didnt need A330s but they made that work.
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Old 5th May 2023, 22:32
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Originally Posted by Danny G
Yep I understand all that, but at the moment the only option out of Manchester is TUI unless you want to change down route. Yes Jet 2 may need to consider what equipemt to use but I think all economy could work if you are not going every day. Most airlines only offered one class back in the 90s so why not now. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and jump, start small and go from there. Manchester based aircraft, large catchment area and already a market.

Theres only so much expansion possible in the European market and it is very close to saturation now. Yes you can start using other airports but you then get into slot problems and need a lot more base staff.

The Caribbean is an expanding market, with countries like Mexico (I use it because thats where I have most experience) still expanding their resorts. Its not that long ago everyone said Jet2 didnt need A330s but they made that work.
Just because the European market is "saturated", it doesn't mean that market share can't be taken from competitors - especially when the IT/holidays market from the UK seems to be more popular again. Secondly, there is still a lot of short haul market to go at in Turkey/Egypt/North Africa which still fits the SH model if the accommodation is available. A British market for these areas is still there - but some unease may remain about historic security concerns.
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Old 6th May 2023, 07:34
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I think Jet2 are quite happy with the ďif it ainít broke donít fix itĒ model. Theyíre making money hand over fist. Theyíre highly risk averse (just look at the standby aircraft and standby crew they have). Long haul just doesnít fit in that model as things stand.
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Old 7th May 2023, 06:46
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Looks like the NEO enters revenue service today; heading off to Malaga for the morning.
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Old 7th May 2023, 06:48
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing
I think Jet2 are quite happy with the ďif it ainít broke donít fix itĒ model. Theyíre making money hand over fist. Theyíre highly risk averse (just look at the standby aircraft and standby crew they have). Long haul just doesnít fit in that model as things stand.
Didnít they come in and alter the way some airlines now do business. The old days of holiday airlines was a packed out schedule with minimal room to breathe. They changed that.

Nothing to say they wonít change the way long haul operates. If that makes sense.
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Old 7th May 2023, 08:27
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Originally Posted by LBAflyer22
Didnít they come in and alter the way some airlines now do business. The old days of holiday airlines was a packed out schedule with minimal room to breathe. They changed that.

Nothing to say they wonít change the way long haul operates. If that makes sense.
Iím quite sure jet2 could put their own spin on longhaul and make it work. I just donít believe they will in the foreseeable future.

They have a massive new fleet introduction starting now with all the challenges that brings and short haul is very much paying the bills.
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Old 7th May 2023, 10:03
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I am absolutely convinced that Jet2 would make a killing on longhaul and it would be relatively lower risk than a lot of people are envisaging. Florida and Mexico are established markets, as are Jamaica, Barbados and the Dominican Republic. More established than markets like Montenegro that Jet2 are tapping into.

Jet2 has experience with A330's already, and the second hand market is bound to have a good few deals they could pick up if they wanted to take their own on. I do personally believe that a fleet of around 12-18 A330 900's, plus options would be a fantastic add for LS.
They can keep utilisation high March-October on Long and short haul, and they'd be able to keep them ticking over in the winter down to the canaries, on a slimmed down long haul network, New York Christmas shopping trips, cruise charters and ski flights as well as running them through maintenance programmes ahead of the next summer.
They could easily keep the best part of 12 A339's busy out of MAN/STN/BHX, and rotate the rest through the other bases on long haul missions.
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Old 7th May 2023, 10:36
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Originally Posted by RA85684
I am absolutely convinced that Jet2 would make a killing on longhaul and it would be relatively lower risk than a lot of people are envisaging. Florida and Mexico are established markets, as are Jamaica, Barbados and the Dominican Republic. More established than markets like Montenegro that Jet2 are tapping into.

Jet2 has experience with A330's already, and the second hand market is bound to have a good few deals they could pick up if they wanted to take their own on. I do personally believe that a fleet of around 12-18 A330 900's, plus options would be a fantastic add for LS.
They can keep utilisation high March-October on Long and short haul, and they'd be able to keep them ticking over in the winter down to the canaries, on a slimmed down long haul network, New York Christmas shopping trips, cruise charters and ski flights as well as running them through maintenance programmes ahead of the next summer.
They could easily keep the best part of 12 A339's busy out of MAN/STN/BHX, and rotate the rest through the other bases on long haul missions.
Iím pretty sure that if/when it happens, Sanford airport in Orlando would throw them a good deal. The terminal was designed with the British public in mind back in the 90ís. Itís a much better experience than McCoy and the airport has been deserted by U.K. carriers in recent years. Though I think the dollar exchange rates would need to improve before we see any real growth in the U.K. > Florida holiday market. Itís currently the most expensive itís been in 30+ years to take the family there.

Thereís definitely a market out there for Cuba that seems to have been forgotten since the demise of Thomas Cook. Tui only offer a once weekly service to Varadero. Holguin and Cayo Coco are two routes that would do well.

On the Dominican Republic Tui have abandoned Puerto Plata (POP) for sometime. Itís definitely the cheaper side of the island and has been missing from U.K. departure boards for a few years now.

All of the above would rely on hotel bed availability. Barbados and some of the other smaller islands would be a struggle IMHO and thatís why I canít see that happening. I think Norse will discover this next winter.

Jet2 going longhaul comes up on here every three months or so. I still donít think itís on their immediate radar if Iím honest. When it does I think itíll be one of those ĎI wasnít expecting thatí moments. Thereís still room for growth in the short haul market. Tunisia and Egypt spring to mind. I think weíll see this kind of growth before any attempt to go longhaul.
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Old 7th May 2023, 11:19
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Jet2 have much less risky potential for development without making massive investment in long haul equipment that they may find difficult to utilise year round.

There must be plenty of scope left in Croatia and Montenegro, and in the same region Albania which if the travel journos are to be believed has plenty of opportunity to be a new destination. The Romanian Black Sea resorts are also ripe for a resurgence at the budget end of the market. Jet2 has no presence yet in Morocco and hasn't gone back to Tunisia since the terrorist attack of some years ago.

Obviously getting accommodation in enough quantity is obviously important for the tour operator business and initially this could be a stumbling block at least initially in some of these markets.
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Old 7th May 2023, 11:54
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Originally Posted by RA85684
I am absolutely convinced that Jet2 would make a killing on longhaul and it would be relatively lower risk than a lot of people are envisaging. Florida and Mexico are established markets, as are Jamaica, Barbados and the Dominican Republic. More established than markets like Montenegro that Jet2 are tapping into.

Jet2 has experience with A330's already, and the second hand market is bound to have a good few deals they could pick up if they wanted to take their own on. I do personally believe that a fleet of around 12-18 A330 900's, plus options would be a fantastic add for LS.
They can keep utilisation high March-October on Long and short haul, and they'd be able to keep them ticking over in the winter down to the canaries, on a slimmed down long haul network, New York Christmas shopping trips, cruise charters and ski flights as well as running them through maintenance programmes ahead of the next summer.
They could easily keep the best part of 12 A339's busy out of MAN/STN/BHX, and rotate the rest through the other bases on long haul missions.
A recipe for disaster and liquidation, job losses and catastrophe for a secure business and in short order !

How many times they are a family holiday company with airline attached

Unless they PURCHASE a cruise company and a mid sized global hotel chain it canít work ( And by the way even that would be exceptionally risky indeed go ask the administrators of Thomas Cook UK !)
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Old 7th May 2023, 11:56
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Jet2 have much less risky potential for development without making massive investment in long haul equipment that they may find difficult to utilise year round.

There must be plenty of scope left in Croatia and Montenegro, and in the same region Albania which if the travel journos are to be believed has plenty of opportunity to be a new destination. The Romanian Black Sea resorts are also ripe for a resurgence at the budget end of the market. Jet2 has no presence yet in Morocco and hasn't gone back to Tunisia since the terrorist attack of some years ago.

Obviously getting accommodation in enough quantity is obviously important for the tour operator business and initially this could be a stumbling block at least initially in some of these markets.
Constanta probably rue the days they allowed the Russian mafia to take over the place.
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Old 7th May 2023, 12:15
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
A recipe for disaster and liquidation, job losses and catastrophe for a secure business and in short order !

How many times they are a family holiday company with airline attached

Unless they PURCHASE a cruise company and a mid sized global hotel chain it canít work ( And by the way even that would be exceptionally risky indeed go ask the administrators of Thomas Cook UK !)
Oh we'll ignore customer loyalty, the demand that is untapped, the unchallenged TUI who can absolutely let their standards drop and prices rises as they have 0 competition, and more then likely the shocking customer service that they now provide.

Also shall we ignore the relationships they have with hotel chains and hoteliers. They were welcome in many countries/hotels/resorts around Europe and I'm pretty sure they'll receive the same reception longer haul. As Steve Heapy has said, on many interview with Travel Weekly, the company always pay on time, don't like exclusive hotels/tour operator relationships as it doesn't promote healthy competition + if the worst happens the hotel goes with it.

It's not a recipe for a disaster.

Also - Did Air 2000/First Choice Airways receive the same reception when they started long haul 2 years after starting as an airline in 1989? Or My Travel/Air Tours when they started operations in the mid 90's only 5 years after starting as an airline? It worked and lead to success till mergers. First Choice when they ordered the 787 said the real money is in long haul.

Jet2 are a different beast to all of those. They are successful, have money, operate different to how all those previous operators. Will it work? Probably.
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Old 7th May 2023, 12:50
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Having worked at CHANNEX late '90's before it morphed in to JET2 l can say that the group is run like a military operation, no nonsense, no excuses.

Good luck in whatever they decide to do next.
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