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Old 17th Jun 2023, 11:42
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
I realise that you consider yourself some kind of expert but WHY would Jet2 operate unprofitable flights when there is no need to "keep the fleet moving"?
Extra sectors for training capacity and pilot recency, brand awareness south of the river, market share in the charter business.

The majority of all European short haul is unprofitable during the winter but market share and other factors mean airlines still fly. If this was any different, it would be done by a based carrier. Or are you trying to tell me that P&O think Jet2 are so wonderful they’re paying them a premium to specifically operate these flights?

Originally Posted by chaps1954
Yes Vokes I agree, Jet2 have pushed TUI out of much of their UK business, mind you TUI have helped by their poor service now days
What’s the obsession with TUI? Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.

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Old 17th Jun 2023, 12:48
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
What’s the obsession with TUI? Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.
What we’re forgetting here is that in J2 the holiday company now decides where it wants its in-house airline to go.
It’s been clear for the last few years now that “seat only” sales literally take the back seat as to availability for bookings.
So, agreed, Easyjet could dump seat capacity at LGW if J2 were to gain scheduled access.
But I strongly believe that J2 Holidays are canny enough only to enter that particular battle ground if it will work for them in the long term.
Yes, there’s EasyJet Holidays too, but at this time they’re a quarter the size of J2 Holidays and both are expanding continuously at a similar rate.
If it happens, I’m sure J2 could make a commercial success at “Gatters”.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 13:52
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I'm sure that Jet2 would love to be at Gatwick, and I'm sure that Gatwick would love to have them - the issue is how they move from nothing to a sustainable base size, with slots being the primary obstacle.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 14:12
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Extra sectors for training capacity and pilot recency, brand awareness south of the river, market share in the charter business.

The majority of all European short haul is unprofitable during the winter but market share and other factors mean airlines still fly. If this was any different, it would be done by a based carrier. Or are you trying to tell me that P&O think Jet2 are so wonderful they’re paying them a premium to specifically operate these
P&O contract Jet2 as the price is right and more importantly, so is the customer service product. The airline is well known for providing excellent customer service. It’s why Canterbury travel solely use Jet2 for their Santa flights.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 14:27
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The service they provide to other companies is a shop window for their own product
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 14:47
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The question is who is making big money Jet2 or Easy
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 16:30
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They are both public companies, so the figures are published for all to see. The major difference is that EZY also has multiple European bases to throw into the mix
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 17:04
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The answer is Jet2 by a long way
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 17:58
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.
im sure Easyjet would try, but people said the same of Ryanair at STN, and how’s that gone for them? It’s hard to dump fares on package holidays when the hotels you don’t own them and to a large extent can’t set their rate. In fact Jet2 can probably undercut easyJet back there via their larger economy of scale with regards to holidays.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 19:44
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Jet2 and Ryanair are a very different kettle of fish and even Easy is
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 21:48
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Jet2 and Ryanair are a very different kettle of fish and even Easy is
An example... Charter airlines make money from the holidays, scheduled airlines make their money from the flights. EZY don't have to worry about unfilled hotel reservations and don't have to worry about handling teams sitting around doing nothing. At the moment it would appear that holiday packages are very popular and will subsidise any inefficiency in the operation such as self handling, EZY have an advantage in ground handling expenditure in that they have more non based arrivals than Jet 2 which guarantees greater utilisation of the ground handling assets during the day. Jet 2 on the other hand have very few non based arrivals meaning that once the early departures have left, the handling teams are under utilised until the aircraft arrive back in the afternoon, and the same applies after the lunchtime departures have gone, the handling teams have nothing to do until the lates come back home. EZY balance departures and arrivals over the course of the day and share their handling agents with other airlines which means their handling costs are lower. IMHO, I think EZY are better placed to weather a downturn.

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Old 17th Jun 2023, 22:06
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The departures and arrivals of Jet2 are spaced over quite a large time and by the time the last one has gone the first return flight is almost back so time for a quick brew
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 22:31
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The issue of ground handling is quite a specific example when considering the overall operational and financial performance of either airline. The point raised about under-utilisation of ground staff for Jet2 at certain times of the day is a fair one, but the same can still be said at various EasyJet stations where they have a more dedicated or exclusive ground handling provider. Ok they may not absord the cost directly, but their contractual terms will inevitably need to cover the cost of those demand variations. Either that or they receive a poorly resourced ground handling provision to which there's a whole host of problems.

Jet2 have a very clear focussed product which is European, mass market, good value package holidays to which they clearly recognise is a market that demands a certain level of service, above that of your traditional low-cost carriers where it's all about cost. The in-house ground handling provision is pivotal to that product/service offering that far outweighs any potential resourcing inefficiencies that may come around by the seasonal nature of Jet2's flying schedule. I for one, looking at the financial position alone and the fact that EasyJet, in my personal opinion, has a far less focussed product than many of it's obvious competitors, would disagree they are better placed to weather a downturn.
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Old 18th Jun 2023, 08:42
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Originally Posted by speed13ird
I think EZY are better placed to weather a downturn.
Having just been through the biggest downturn in aviation history, who’s come out of it better? Easy or Jet2?

I think one of the major points what’s not been mentioned is Jet2s corporate structure.
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Old 18th Jun 2023, 15:57
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Their markets are different too. Jet2 Holidays are recognised to be of good quality, fully inclusive, but at a higher price than just the base components.
On the other hand, EZY sell you a flight, then start adding extras - baggage, seating, hotels, car hire, etc. With EZY they first tell you the base price of the flight, with Jet2 you are given a holiday price.
Both have their niche, and both are good at what they do.
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Old 18th Jun 2023, 16:13
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I'll be honest, I'm not sure easy even know what they want to be at the moment. Their recent half year update states they want to grow easyJet holidays yet their mission statement insists they're a low cost airline. I think they need to identify what they want to do and do it well as they seem to have lost focus over the last few years with persistent underwhelming results. I'm not sure the existing management have the bandwidth to deliver both effectively.

Easy are much larger but Jet2's performance and results are way more impressive.
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Old 20th Jun 2023, 12:22
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G-LSAI in a spot of bother today?

MAN - HER this morning climbed to 24000ft, quickly did a 180 descended to 8000 and stooged around Bolton area for a couple of circuits before going back into MAN.
Anyone know what's up? Air-con?
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Old 20th Jun 2023, 15:11
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Originally Posted by Flying Hi
MAN - HER this morning climbed to 24000ft, quickly did a 180 descended to 8000 and stooged around Bolton area for a couple of circuits before going back into MAN.
Anyone know what's up? Air-con?
Cabin pressurisation issue.
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Old 20th Jun 2023, 16:20
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Any updates on the delivery of the other 2 A321Neos?

And the other 7 2nd hand B737-800's coming into service?

Peak season is fast approaching.
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Old 20th Jun 2023, 17:44
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Yes the 2nd A321 first flew 17th June as D-AVXN test reg so guess couple of weeks till delivered to EMA for decals and then on to MAN for pre service checks and mods.
The main problem has been engine delivery
Don`t know about 738s other than G-JZDC has been at Shannon for about a month
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