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Stobart Air-2

Old 12th Sep 2018, 10:25
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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The airline you paid your money to and who issued the ticket are responsible.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 10:50
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, without question if Flybe issued the ticket it's their responsibility for any flight delay compensation payment, regardless of the 'operated by' statement.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 12:14
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Claim from the airline

Contact the airline this needs to be the airline operating the flight, even if you booked it through another airline.

Not according to citizens advise. Extract from there website.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 12:27
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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Escalate directly to the CAA

Originally Posted by claron View Post

Claim from the airline

Contact the airline this needs to be the airline operating the flight, even if you booked it through another airline.

Not according to citizens advise. Extract from there website.
The CAA is your friend here. Write to them with evidence of the emails that you sent to Stobart Air, and which they refused to answer. They will then kick them where it hurts and your claim will be resolved pdq.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 12:38
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Here's a facual post. Not conjecture or thoughts gleaned from other websites.

I have done a successful EU261/2004 claim. I claimed on the Flybe website. They paid me.

The flight in question was operated by Stobart. Flybe send the claim to Stobart who verify it and inform Flybe of the outcome.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 15:48
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting. My Flybe operated by Stobart cancelled flight claim was rejected by Flybe and told nothing to do with Flybe contact Stobart.
So far zero reply from Stobart.
I have asked the CAA to clarify who is responsible - to which there has also been no reply.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 17:40
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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I see that BE have re-introduced their timetable to the website today and all franchise flights with Stobart are no longer available from end of March. Is this just a coincidence that their 5 year agreement also ends at this point or will we see an updated timetable added in the coming weeks!?
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 18:11
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Originally Posted by Mr A Tis View Post
Interesting. My Flybe operated by Stobart cancelled flight claim was rejected by Flybe and told nothing to do with Flybe contact Stobart.
So far zero reply from Stobart.
I have asked the CAA to clarify who is responsible - to which there has also been no reply.
Stobart Air are responsible as these will have been the operating airline.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 19:29
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cazza_fly View Post
Stobart Air are responsible as these will have been the operating airline.
In this case - yes. But "operating" depends on who is calling the shots if and how a flight is operated. The ECJ recently ruled German airline TUIfly had to pay compensation for a flight it had outsourced to Thomsonfly, .i.e. a flight operated with Thomsonfly metal. So in a wet-lease scenario the operating carrier is different from the operating carrier in a franchise scenario.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 20:41
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Flybe (as an operator), have no responsibility for operational or commercial performance for the Flybe branded, Stobart Air operated services at SEN. The responsibility for EU261 lies with the operator of the flight, not the company under which the flight is branded.

When you purchase a flight operated as a codeshare, you may have booked through one airline but be travelling with another. It can't be the responsibility of the airline that you purchased the flight from to pay compensation if they have no influence or part to play in delivery of the service by the partner airline. That said, you'd hope that there would be strong internal comms between the two companies that would result in the customer not having to do the leg work. This would surely be a better solution.

Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 12th Sep 2018 at 20:43. Reason: Typo correction
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 21:14
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Flybe (as an operator), have no responsibility for operational or commercial performance for the Flybe branded, Stobart Air operated services at SEN. The responsibility for EU261 lies with the operator of the flight, not the company under which the flight is branded.

When you purchase a flight operated as a codeshare, you may have booked through one airline but be travelling with another. It can't be the responsibility of the airline that you purchased the flight from to pay compensation if they have no influence or part to play in delivery of the service by the partner airline. That said, you'd hope that there would be strong internal comms between the two companies that would result in the customer not having to do the leg work. This would surely be a better solution.
ln which case you have to question how damaging this franchise has been to the Flybe brand and whether the relationship has any future!
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 21:25
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Originally Posted by stewyb View Post


ln which case you have to question how damaging this franchise has been to the Flybe brand and whether the relationship has any future!
Assuming that the franchise agreement is coming to an end next March, what options are there for Stobart Air to continue flights to Rennes, Caen, Groningen, etc with ATR72s. Or is there not a problem?
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 06:47
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Originally Posted by tophat27dt View Post
Assuming that the franchise agreement is coming to an end next March, what options are there for Stobart Air to continue flights to Rennes, Caen, Groningen, etc with ATR72s. Or is there not a problem?
The 5 year franchise agreement actually runs until 31 May 2019 but I haven't been able to glean any information as to whether or not it will be renewed or whether there are other options in the frame. I did speak with the MD of one of the airports on the ATR network yesterday and for what it's worth they are confident that their SEN service will operate next summer.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 10:01
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I'd be amazed if Stobart aren't close to finalising their plans for 2019. It seems almost inconceivable that they will cease to operate from SEN at the end of the winter.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 10:36
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
I'd be amazed if Stobart aren't close to finalising their plans for 2019. It seems almost inconceivable that they will cease to operate from SEN at the end of the winter.
BE/Stobart will not renew franchise and Stobart Air will run their own operation for the ATR routes + Dublin E95 is my guess
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 11:17
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Flybe (as an operator), have no responsibility for operational or commercial performance for the Flybe branded, Stobart Air operated services at SEN. The responsibility for EU261 lies with the operator of the flight, not the company under which the flight is branded. When you purchase a flight operated as a codeshare, you may have booked through one airline but be travelling with another. It can't be the responsibility of the airline that you purchased the flight from to pay compensation if they have no influence or part to play in delivery of the service by the partner airline.
Well, if you do not believe me that the state of the law is different, let#s hear from the horse's mouth, the ECJ:

CURIA - Documents

Particularly paras 20-21:
It follows that an air carrier which, in the course of its air passenger carriage activities, decides to perform a particular flight, including fixing its itinerary, and, by so doing, offers to conclude a contract of air carriage with members of the public must be regarded as the operating air carrier. The adoption of such a decision means that that air carrier bears the responsibility for performing the flight in question, including, inter alia, any cancellation or significantly delayed time of arrival.In the present case, it is common ground that Thomson Airways merely leased the aircraft and the crew which performed the flight at issue in the main proceedings, but that the fixing of the itinerary and the performance of the flight were determined by TUIFly.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 11:55
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I don't disagree with any of that, but the key difference is that Stobart Air are not leasing aircraft to Flybe in order for Flybe to operate services ex SEN. Stobart Air are operating these services themselves, with their own fleet but using the brand of Flybe. A franchise is not a wet-lease so in my mind there is a subtle difference compared to TUI.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 12:07
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
I don't disagree with any of that, but the key difference is that Stobart Air are not leasing aircraft to Flybe in order for Flybe to operate services ex SEN. Stobart Air are operating these services themselves, with their own fleet but using the brand of Flybe. A franchise is not a wet-lease so in my mind there is a subtle difference compared to TUI.
For the European Court of Justice, it is all about customer perspective. You look up all the details on the Flybe website, make your booking there, enter a contract with Flybe, get all the paperwork from Flybe etc. What from all of that could not create the impression that you raise a problem with Flybe, but with a company that is mentioned just once in the small print? Hence, Flybe is the port of call. It is up to Flybe to sort out the mess with Stobart Air. And I think this is justified. Nobody forces an airline to offer franchise contracts to other carriers and/or use third-party aircraft. And of course, Flybe will collect any compensation it has to pay out for Stobart flights from Stobart afterwards anyway.

To give two examples how difficult it could be for customers if it were differen, if you buy an Eurowings ticket, you can end up on an Eurowings, Germanwings, Eurowings Europe, LGW or TUIfly aircraft - why should it be up to the passenger to sort that mess out? Or if you buy an easyjet ticket for their new Berlin operation, it is a lottery which airline will actually operate the flight as easyjet has contracted aircraft from all corners of Europe to be able to start up at short notice.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 12:31
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Can't see how this is different from any other commercial transaction - your contract is with flybe.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 13:18
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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There was a similar conversation/debate in the Flybe thread back in June.

I also contacted Flybe regarding a delay and was palmed off onto Stobart. Stobart then paid out fairly quickly but I did have to contact them again as nothing was heard initially.
The address I was given was [email protected]
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