BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
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Now admittedly SOF, my understanding of this is about third hand, but I understood that British Midland were doing very well at BFS thank you very much and had brought their first larger aircraft onto the BFS - LHR route, then had a ding-dong with BFS management about charges!? Don't think it was because anyone in Donington had a light-bulb moment and thought they needed to move those planes twenty miles down the road to an airport not ideally equipped to take them, but I could be wrong about that!?? 
The Belfast airportS thing is very unusual, even after all these years. Not all Heathrow passengers want to use City, same is likely true that not all Gatwick travellers would chose BFS. But leaving out the short journey issue between the two airports and leaving it to brand, schedules and, above all in Norn Irn, Price, it will be interesting to see how Belfast London traffic shapes up over the next while..
The Belfast airportS thing is very unusual, even after all these years. Not all Heathrow passengers want to use City, same is likely true that not all Gatwick travellers would chose BFS. But leaving out the short journey issue between the two airports and leaving it to brand, schedules and, above all in Norn Irn, Price, it will be interesting to see how Belfast London traffic shapes up over the next while..
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pan X 4, You might be right. I however was right about Vueling, before it was announced officially and think I will be right that there will be more significant changes, such as consolidation within IAG resulting in greatly reduced AL operations this winter and no summer program for 2017 . Or Pan X 4, I might be b.......ing, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Bhd might have higher yield, or it might not, than Bfs. One thing is for sure now, it makes no matter to BA where they operate from out of Belfast. If they were to move to Bfs, there will be no competition stepping in to take over Bhd-Lhr. So now, for the first time in many years, they can make a decision on where to use here based on whatever deal they get. And if that is Bfs and you want to get to Lhr, then Bfs is where you will go. Sadly, Lhr is no longer the important route it once was out of Bfs, when in years gone past it carried in excess of 100k per month. Now Lgw carries more out of Belfast combined and when Bfs have up to 10 flights a day to Lgw when Fr start, that gap will get bigger.
TB
TB
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Panpanpanpan,
Mystifying it is, but as you have indicated in the past both airports are profitable and sustainable in their own rite so no need for any concern here them irrespective of what potentially BFS employees say...
Concerns me what sardonic is saying as is like the green birds to hang about. Given that IAG see fit to put VY and BA side by side on say LGW BCN in order to segment the market and compete effecticely with easyJet, that could hold for Belfast too. Though I'd suggest there are opportunities for efficiencies as load factors not huge on LHR. On a cost efficiency basis Panpanpanpan 's suggestion of EI being on the bhd side and BA doing reciprocal service with no night stop has merit...
Mystifying it is, but as you have indicated in the past both airports are profitable and sustainable in their own rite so no need for any concern here them irrespective of what potentially BFS employees say...
Concerns me what sardonic is saying as is like the green birds to hang about. Given that IAG see fit to put VY and BA side by side on say LGW BCN in order to segment the market and compete effecticely with easyJet, that could hold for Belfast too. Though I'd suggest there are opportunities for efficiencies as load factors not huge on LHR. On a cost efficiency basis Panpanpanpan 's suggestion of EI being on the bhd side and BA doing reciprocal service with no night stop has merit...
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When Aldergrove tried to sue Lingus for a crazy amount of money a few months ago was it not stated in court that the reason they left to go to Harbour was because the base was unprofitable, it was either move to Harbour or withdraw totally from the NI market?
Is it not also the case that their summer program has grown since they moved to Harbour? Why would they continue to increase flights that there is allegedly no demand for? From my limited knowledge the holiday flights are all doing very well, I would be very surprised if they were suddenly stopped completely from next summer.
As Skipness says
Is it not also the case that their summer program has grown since they moved to Harbour? Why would they continue to increase flights that there is allegedly no demand for? From my limited knowledge the holiday flights are all doing very well, I would be very surprised if they were suddenly stopped completely from next summer.
As Skipness says
BMI moved to BHD because their passengers wanted it, the airline serves the market not the other way round. Remember they even served BFS again when BA left and dropped it soon after.
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When Aldergrove tried to sue Lingus for a crazy amount of money a few months ago was it not stated in court that the reason they left to go to Harbour was because the base was unprofitable, it was either move to Harbour or withdraw totally from the NI market?
Is it not also the case that their summer program has grown since they moved to Harbour? Why would they continue to increase flights that there is allegedly no demand for? From my limited knowledge the holiday flights are all doing very well, I would be very surprised if they were suddenly stopped completely from next summer.
Is it not also the case that their summer program has grown since they moved to Harbour? Why would they continue to increase flights that there is allegedly no demand for? From my limited knowledge the holiday flights are all doing very well, I would be very surprised if they were suddenly stopped completely from next summer.
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Vuelling
I wonder how much money was wasted to get the so called operator in from either Tourism Ireland or folks on the hill. Can see KLM not lasting the pace either.
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Maybe I am missing something but EI and their sunshine programme, surely they are not utilising aircraft to their best economic advantage. 2 aircraft only providing 4 departures per day. At BFS the same aircraft would be providing 6 departures.
Also have FR stopped playing their games with EI? If they haven't, then any european routes EI try to start from Bhd there is the real risk that FR will start same or similar from BFS..... I think this will be the last summer of EI in Belfast.
Also have FR stopped playing their games with EI? If they haven't, then any european routes EI try to start from Bhd there is the real risk that FR will start same or similar from BFS..... I think this will be the last summer of EI in Belfast.
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When EI moved that had no bucket and spade routes. My holy lord I have never seen users so eager to avoid the truth, its like if you say anything good about BHD it hurts them.
EIN actually said in a PR Release the move to BHD was due to them running a loss at BFS. LHR and LGW are largely business routes, so being closer to the city is a little more important than flights to say BCN. The AGP, ALC and FAO flights are probably better off staying at BHD due to competition at BFS from EZY.
EIN actually said in a PR Release the move to BHD was due to them running a loss at BFS. LHR and LGW are largely business routes, so being closer to the city is a little more important than flights to say BCN. The AGP, ALC and FAO flights are probably better off staying at BHD due to competition at BFS from EZY.
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AerRyan
You get used to it after a while, its like any new route is thanks to friends on the hill, brown envelopes, people on committees, or just a fad of airlines going to BHD and the general consensus is they'll never cope, they'll be gone when the subsidies run out or when they see the light and move to BFS. I now find it funny! Like as if an airline like KLM would really be so desperate they would chain themselves into a disaster zone airport with no hope for 12 months just for a subsidy - unless that is they are adopting an FR business style? As you rightly said, EI tried at BFS and lost money. They actually now have high frequency sunshine flights and have ramped them up this year considerably - its not really the mark of an airline ready to pull out. Last year they grew sunshine pax more than any other airline and I see no reason why they won't this year. BE view BHD as a strategic and large base, it fits their city - city style, and as of BA? That rumour cracks me up altogether. SN have yet to make their mark but as the route has been so long sought after, has connections available and is part of star alliance I think they have every chance of success, the likelihood is they will carry more pax on 5x weekly than VY did 2-3 weekly carrying around 100 pax on average per flight.
You get used to it after a while, its like any new route is thanks to friends on the hill, brown envelopes, people on committees, or just a fad of airlines going to BHD and the general consensus is they'll never cope, they'll be gone when the subsidies run out or when they see the light and move to BFS. I now find it funny! Like as if an airline like KLM would really be so desperate they would chain themselves into a disaster zone airport with no hope for 12 months just for a subsidy - unless that is they are adopting an FR business style? As you rightly said, EI tried at BFS and lost money. They actually now have high frequency sunshine flights and have ramped them up this year considerably - its not really the mark of an airline ready to pull out. Last year they grew sunshine pax more than any other airline and I see no reason why they won't this year. BE view BHD as a strategic and large base, it fits their city - city style, and as of BA? That rumour cracks me up altogether. SN have yet to make their mark but as the route has been so long sought after, has connections available and is part of star alliance I think they have every chance of success, the likelihood is they will carry more pax on 5x weekly than VY did 2-3 weekly carrying around 100 pax on average per flight.
Last edited by mart901; 25th Jan 2016 at 12:36. Reason: grammar
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525k is a hell of a subsidy for starting up a route with a fairly low number of seats but it does perhaps get them over the hump of viability. Fairly useful then that your airport ceo was the dude handing out the subsidies then....... just sayin!
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Comparing EZY to EI. Easyjet use their aircraft generally a domestic early in the morning (business traffic) then a couple of International flights/several domestics later on - giving a good 3 maybe 4 rotations per day. The sunshine routes that Aer Lingus will be operating are all up against fierce competition so prices will have to be keen to compete, are they going to make a lot of cash? does this programme bring in the best return for the utilisation of these aircraft?
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EI have been compeiting with all the competition for the last 8-9 years so I really cant see your point.
As for the move to BHD lets say it was based solely on charges, EI have lots of data on passengers and perhaps the majority were from Belfast and they decided to move while not losing the majority of them and reduce their costs st the same time.
Given they have added x12 weekly sun departures it suggests they are making money. How many have U2, TCX or TOM added up the road?
Seems a lot of bitterness since EI left BFS. They will not be going back at all. Belfast tried to get them back before legal proceedings.
Hate to think what the reaction would be if they added a fourth aircraft at BHD!
EI have been compeiting with all the competition for the last 8-9 years so I really cant see your point.
As for the move to BHD lets say it was based solely on charges, EI have lots of data on passengers and perhaps the majority were from Belfast and they decided to move while not losing the majority of them and reduce their costs st the same time.
Given they have added x12 weekly sun departures it suggests they are making money. How many have U2, TCX or TOM added up the road?
Seems a lot of bitterness since EI left BFS. They will not be going back at all. Belfast tried to get them back before legal proceedings.
Hate to think what the reaction would be if they added a fourth aircraft at BHD!
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EI doing fine. They're not the first to move and I'm sure they won't be the last. People jumping up and down caus FR have committed to 1 route into LGW where they have limited interest and are not committing to anything much past that, just a vague idea - might be worth remembering how quickly they fall out with airports. You only need to look at SNN or ORK and in fact DUB for that matter. Seriously have nothing against BFS I use it quite a lot, but it looks like a low cost airport against BHD, and that's where I think its growth will be.
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EI A330
EZY adding an extra flight to AGP towards end of season. Jet2 will be increasing sun routes compared to last year, ALC extra 3 weekly flights, AGP extra 1, FAO extra 1 and FUE new weekly flight. TCX and TOM usual double daily to sun destinations.
With EI increase in sun routes there will be cheap holidays from which ever airport!!!!!
interesting that one comment on BHD/BFS thread gets this much response
Please start a different rumour
EZY adding an extra flight to AGP towards end of season. Jet2 will be increasing sun routes compared to last year, ALC extra 3 weekly flights, AGP extra 1, FAO extra 1 and FUE new weekly flight. TCX and TOM usual double daily to sun destinations.
With EI increase in sun routes there will be cheap holidays from which ever airport!!!!!
interesting that one comment on BHD/BFS thread gets this much response
Please start a different rumour
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From memory LS added additional rotations at BFS for this summer. At a guess EI added to the list due to the LGW aircraft being freed up as they were already committed to the Belfast programme.
All I am saying is the EI legacy at Belfast doesn't seem good from an observers point of view. How many routes have they tried and withdrawn? LGW month on month always seemed to be on the decrease, their only success seems to be LHR.
All I am saying is the EI legacy at Belfast doesn't seem good from an observers point of view. How many routes have they tried and withdrawn? LGW month on month always seemed to be on the decrease, their only success seems to be LHR.
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From memory LS added additional rotations at BFS for this summer. At a guess EI added to the list due to the LGW aircraft being freed up as they were already committed to the Belfast programme.
All I am saying is the EI legacy at Belfast doesn't seem good from an observers point of view. How many routes have they tried and withdrawn? LGW month on month always seemed to be on the decrease, their only success seems to be LHR.
All I am saying is the EI legacy at Belfast doesn't seem good from an observers point of view. How many routes have they tried and withdrawn? LGW month on month always seemed to be on the decrease, their only success seems to be LHR.