BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[tigger2k8]

No chance of BE moving to BFS. Again laughable.

Andrew, it would have been considered laughable for EI to move to BHD and run a domestic network just 3 months ago.. who knows what the future may hold, they could run a few routes from BFS if they want to, and no doubt they will have been poached by management.

mart, if this goes ahead it will be 3 times that BHD has basically crapped on BE, each time and airline has left they have stepped in to fill the gap and held reduce the effects of an airline moving, yet each time they are thanked by getting a competitor on their routes, they made a reasonably bold statement when WW went across, if they don't say anything about this i will be surprised

I agree with TB, if they do start working together with BHD-LHR we will probably see EI upgrade its services and pricing structure for flight.. meaning a fare increase is possible

[mart901]

So did BFS crap on EZY when they let in EI to compete directly or LS for that matter? BE are not a special carrier who cant be put up against a competitor. And as for LHR it was always planned that BA would code share with EI so whats the difference?

[cuthere]

BHD-LHR is already significantly more expensive than when BD operated the route as Flybmi, rather than BA with nice aircraft.

BE said their response to WW getting in on the party at BHD would be "robust". They did nothing. I'd imagine the response to this will be equally "robust".

[True Blue]

Bfs hasn't seen a succession of carriers, like Bhd has who have been poached down to Bhd and then failed, only for Flybe to pick up the pieces and be stood on again. I think it is pretty scandalous the way Bhd has behaved over the last few years. But yet another example of maybe a bad decision all over a few pieces of silver. Except BHD seems to be like a mirage in the desert, when you get there, you realise that the promised silver isn't there.

Last month, Bhd to Edi had about 10k pax. We are told that Ei is going on that route with an airbus. How is that going to work? Is Ezy going to stand by and watch? Ei will only generate volume by cutting fares to the bone, what then about yield? In a fares war, who will be best placed to stick it out? Ezy has the largest pockets. Flybe the smaller planes so will lose less. Ei?

I have a huge interest in economics and the one thing I see all the time, many in large bussinesses, is bad decisions. Here is another one coming if this move takes place.

TB

[tigger2k8]

So did BFS crap on EZY when they let in EI to compete directly or LS for that matter? BE are not a special carrier who cant be put up against a competitor. And as for LHR it was always planned that BA would code share with EI so whats the difference?

The difference is... this will be the second time that BE helped BHD when airlines leave them, only to have them getting a replacement which lands in direct competition...

Think of it as loyalty.. BFS shows loyalty to EZY due to their long-ish relationship, you would think BHD would show the same to some extent.

I see the Belfast Telegraph is the only one i have noticed to include this in the story

An Aer Lingus spokeswoman said: "It is pure speculation and no such decision has been reached."

Very poorly reported and handled, such reporting only leads to people getting hopes up and will cause worry for those in BFS, as no doubt there could be jobs at stake throughout the airport

[EI-BUD]

I think that the posters who say that the media have the story fresh from pprune, I think that they could be right. AerLingus if they are going to appear at LHR it will be a LHR link, maybe that could mean a consolidation of the LHR route at the city but I just cant see they touching Domestic routes outside of LHR.

I certainly dont think that BE would allow BHD to flex its muscle and there are many services (that dont compete with EZY) to BFS and drive a good deal with BFS including ski charters, other charters, EMA, CWL, INV, ABZ, Dundee...plus Jersey... Anyway.

If EI Did move Euro routes to BFS I could see EZY putting extra capacity and ensuring that it is not easy for EI..... It's not in Easyjet's interest to have a strong and growing BHD.

[CCR]

Seems to be all over the newspapers, I'm sure there are more sources than PPrune..

Aer Lingus 'planning Belfast switch' - The Irish Times - Fri, Jun 15, 2012

Aer Lingus to switch operations from Belfast International to George Best City Airport - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

I'm sure it will be a combined Aer Lingus/ Aer Lingus Regional operation out of BHD.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by tigger2k8

The difference is... this will be the second time that BE helped BHD when airlines leave them, only to have them getting a replacement which lands in direct competition...

Think of it as loyalty.. BFS shows loyalty to EZY due to their long-ish relationship, you would think BHD would show the same to some extent.

Ah come on, FlyBe are not a charity. They're operating out of BHD because they know they can make money there, end of.

BHD management would be fools to allow FlyBe hold a monopoly position at the airport, as it would give FlyBe huge buying power when it comes to airport charges.

[Facelookbovvered]

Perhaps with Eazy & Jet2 at BFS it seems less hassle to sell their wares from the city, plus they will have seen WW loads these past few months which if nothing else proved that people are happy to go on their jolly's from city

[mart901]

come on everyone wake up and smell the coffee. last year EI quietly slipped a few a few A319's into the fleet, at guess what airport. Nothing is on sale out of BFS except LHR past Oct. (Granted some other routes aren't but thats mainly EIR). BHD management have been dropping some rather big hints about airlines launching routes to replace WW and today the bbc, probably one of the most respected names in UK journalism is announcing EI look likely to be moving. Naturally EI will deny it at this stage, its not set for public announcement, thats what companies do. I quite agree with the comments that BE are not a charity, the belfast market is very lucrative for them otherwise they simply wouldn't be there. BFS will just as likely be offering deals as we speak to attract in carriers, loyalty has nothing to do with it. EZY were happy enough to slip over to BHD to keep FR off the LTN run and no doubt would have moved lock stock and barrel if it so suited them.

[frequentflyer2]

Confirmation from the airline may follow a board meeting next week.

The BBC understands flights could be moved to Belfast City within weeks and that a formal announcement may come in days.

The move will also make George Best Belfast City Airport, Belfast's only Heathrow connection

Anyone who thinks Jim Fitzpatrick has put this story together after reading speculative posts on PPRUNE obviously has no idea how journalists at this level work. He has been given the information "off the record" by someone regarded as a very reliable source. This could only be someone in a senior managerial position at the airport, Aer Lingus or indeed someone from both. When he writes "the BBC understands...", he means "the BBC has been told by a completely reliable source who does not wish to be identified at this stage..." Believe you me, no-one in his position is going to write a story like this without being 100% sure what he is writing is accurate. The story is very specific. There's nothing woolly or speculative about it, and the main points appear to be:

All Aer Lingus services will operate from BHD
The airline will develop other routes from BHD, as well as those it currently operates.
The announcement will be made within the next week or so.
The move may happen very quickly.
BFS will lose its link with Heathrow.

The Aer Lingus statement is simply PR speak for "we're not ready to say anything about this yet." There's certainly no denial there.

I will be very surprised if the majority, indeed all, of Jim's story turns out to be anything other than spot on.

[ILS25]

Staff at BFS based Delta catering filled in forms for airside passes at BHD weeks ago.

[SecondDog]

Staff at BFS based Delta catering filled in forms for airside passes at BHD weeks ago.

I take it you mean Alpha? and that wouldn't matter anyway as Gate Gourmet cater the Aerlingus operation at BFS

[BHD2BFS]

Well personally I hope BFS gets easy or jet2 to take over those routes. I'd be more if they got someone like monarch in to replace them but whats the chances.
Over the past few months we have heard ezy are going to start 2 new routes. The airport was in talks with Etihad and only this week we heard Virgin to MCO may be a possibility. Let's hope atleast one of these come off for the airport

[tigger2k8]

I would say there's a chance LHR will be kept, who by is the question..

[mart901]

You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR from BHD than BFS. If they land up with a 50/50 share of the pax with BA as code share partner even at just £1 per seat profit that would be £10k extra a month, that would surely more than amply cover some losses on start up domestic routes. As people will be able to book both airlines flights through each others websites it will surely result in growth for EI. I would say its part of a longer term strategy with LHR in mind, quite possibly as the sole carrier.

[True Blue]

"You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR from BHD than BFS"

Here we go again with these statements that Bhd is everyones favourite, if they can't fly to Bhd they will not travel. Let look at the history. After 9/11, BMI was another of those airlines poached down to Bhd from Bfs. Around the same time, BA decided to withdraw from Belfast completely, under the guise that the Bfs route was loosing money, some would say this was not completely true.

So for many years, the ONLY route from Belfast to Lhr was from Bhd, with BD having slots for about 7/8 services a day. So how could any pax fly from Bfs when there was no service?

Then Ei enter the fray from Bfs, but to a slot constrained airport. So how could they come in and offer the same frequency as BD when they were unable to get slots to do so?

So until two airlines are running the same frequency and same capacity from both Belfast airports to Lhr for maybe 2 years, nobody can say that Bhd is the preferred airport to Lhr. Bfs and Bhd compete on many domestic routes and I am afraid that the Caa stats tell us that Bfs carries more on most of those routes. If Bhd is where everyone wants to fly, why is that? Or maybe the Caa stats are wrong, that group up there that opposes Bhd has got to them.

TB

[EI-BUD]

You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR
from BHD than BFS. If they land up with a 50/50 share of the pax with BA as code
share partner even at just £1 per seat profit that would be £10k extra a month,
that would surely more than amply cover some losses on start up domestic
routes

mart901, with respect, it is a nonsense to suggest that its because twice as many pax fly BHD LHR than BFS. Firstly that because there is twice as many flights. Increase BFS to 6 a day and then we could see a direct proper comparison.

Take last July EI carried almost as many pax on BFS LHR as BD did on BHD LHR... EI's best month on the route.

And in addition, we could make the same inference on most of EZYs routes, eg GLA EDI LGW, that 'clear case why it would be better to operate BFS EDI rather than BHD EDI as twice as many use it', again that would be nonsence.

I feel that EI operating LGW or MAN with 319, the losses would be monumental. It would take far to long to establised and a £1 extra profit per seat likely wouldnt go too far. Losses on an underperforming route can be huge. Take the fuel and staff costs alone. Have memories of MXP BFS coming back with less than 10 passenger. Lets try to understand how much that would have costed and the few pax prob got the lowest fares.

EI-BUD

[EI-BUD]

True Blue you make valid points here, and I am reflecting on the long stated comment that BA was losing a packet on the SuperShuttle BFS LHR route.

At the time that these accepted theories were first floated about, the cost base of the likes of BA were vastly different and BD's too. BA's has vastly improved, so if BA returned working on the same frequency and revenue may be acceptable. Same story for BD, although they wont be around. BFS was the incumbent and as such it had everything to play for.

This debate about which airport commands the best traffic as True Blue says we need same frequency, probably the same airline, probably the same fares to see which is most popular.

Particular airlines can attract the numbers, so take EZY on established routes from BFS they far exceed that of the City but equally established routes from BHD far exceed BFS e.g. MAN..

Yes BHD as many says is in a great location. There is great catchment, but BFS has an equally if not bigger catchment when you consider all the towns cities and counties west and south extending across the border into the republic.

EI-BUD

[mart901]

EI could have increased capacity long ago simply by using another LHR slot to facilitate it, i.e. from a SNN,ORK or one of the many DUB slots. On the point of other routes when you look at the pricing structure of EZY and the aircraft size against that of BE its little or no wonder they fly more pax. I'm not saying there isn't demand from BFS there clearly is but I don't accept that moving operations to BHD or running domestic routes will result in catastrophic failure. Just look what happened when EZY flew BHD-LTN, nothing changed. I don't think the airport is the issue, pricing is, FR at BHD being an even better example.