BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[AerRyan]

I'd actually shake my head at NI residents who use even LHR out of Dublin. Support local really hasn't much of a bearing up north does it? Anyway better for our economy!

I'd be more offended that you referred to me as a Dubliner, that's possibly the most offensive thing to say to a true Irish person.

[GAZMO]

Now Sarcon, that statement will certainly start the rumours!!!

[larry the man]

Sarcon, You don't mean that Minister Bell is going to allow airports more than 5 miles from Netherleigh to have access to the proposed route development fund or that it will not be restricted to routes already served from BFS.

[EI-BUD]

Seriously, this topic goes around and around, the rivalry between the pro city and pro international groups. It is a non event the distance that BFS is from the city of Belfast by international standards. BHD is convenient for sure. The consumer uses the particular airport based on what they need. On routes where the 2 compete/ overlap, which is not loads by the way. The fact is that the numbers for the International are generally greater, so that fact should put to bed the notion of BFS being a bad location or too far out of town. Furthermore, there is a far wider travelling public in NI or indeed the Northern half of the Island than just live around Belfast.

Eventually the light will come on for the non commercial people on this forum when they realise that Belfast is far too small to have 2 airports, a topic that has been debated to death on here.

I love to using Belfast City Airport, I use both Belfast airports extensively, and Dublin too, but the table has turned and BHD is now on the back foot after enjoying 1 way traffic from BFS down the road to BHD for a long time. This is truly the first serious occasion when this has happened, after a raft of airlines moved BFS to BHD including Bmi (and by default BA), bmibaby, Citywing (consolidating IOM route at BHD), AerLingus etc, now Ryanair is going to BFS and not returning to BHD (we all know the whole story/ reasons for that). So the tide has turned. I am at pains to see how BHD can reverse the trend with FR in town. Addng Brussels Airlines, which will be way small by comparison to KLM, will not rebalance the deficit.

Now BHD has to the job of needing to grow the business to compensate for the loss of one of its top 5 routes, LGW. Inevitably, from end of October 2016, the airport will be shy of circa 20K passengers per month, while BFS grows by about 30K, so a gap of 50K in BFS's direction...

[AerRyan]

See, you contracted your point partially above. BFS isn't far in international stands. International standards actually being FAR larger cities big enough for MORE than 2 airport!

[BFS watcher]

So is BA moving?

Sarcon

is the rumour about the business lounge being done up as part of a deal with BA possible? Lots of BA bods have been spotted around BFS recently. Could be an interesting few months

[ILS25]

The business lounge upgrade has been on the cards for quite some time. I'd doubt the refurb is related to any BA move. I'm not ruling anything out though, Graham Keddie has his head screwed on and seems to have moved BFS up a few gears since his appointment as MD.

[sarcon]

The lounge is being extended and the capacity increased quite significantly and while there have indeed been quite a number of BA suits visiting can't say for sure they're linked. There is however a lot of talk and plans being discussed about installing a new airbridge in this location. It's unlikely this would be for Ryanair, so something is going on!

[GAZMO]

Hi Sarcon
Think you posted on wrong Belfast thread??
That's our problem with having two Belfast airports!!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

If BA's target traffic has a higher propensity to use BHD what benefit do they gain with moving to BFS. Birds of a feather flock together and BFS is EZY/LS? Not getting the "why" here, airport charges won't be enough reason.

[EI-BUD]

Skipness,

I think airlines and the service they offer will create the propensity, if that makes sense. Now with having neutralised the EI competition, the only serious competitor ex BHD for the passenger who wants to make a connection somewhere is KLM. Hence, they impact on a move would be marginal.

Also considering that probably somewhere around 50% of pax are connecting ( based on comparable stat for EDI and GLA LHR routes) at LHR and going onwards, the Belfast Airport chosen is note massively important.

There are so many reasons why BFS could be more attractive, for operational and ultimately financial reasons. Eg how many weather diversions per year, how many diversions due to late arrivals at BHD, how much more cost effective could it be for BA to be able to later arrival... Hence reduced unit cost, and all of the above before we would start comparing the airports fees to BA..

I have no information on this topic, just offering my views for counter balance. It feels like some reliable posters are mentioning changes in here, I really do hope the more to come topic doesn't mean withdrawl of Aer Lingus from winter...

[BHD2BFS]

Although I don't know the costs involved. I'm sure BA could potentially save £1000s changing airport.
negotiating a new contract at a better price
using larger aircraft aircraft to free up slots and aircraft
Maybe a 767 like they use in EDI for a morning, afternoon and evening service
As it's been said also 24/7 airport preventing them from having to pay fees for late arriving aircraft into BHD

There has been rumours of BA cityflyer coming to Belfast
LCY from BHD for all of the business pax who used it's LHR service

Relocating LHR for the reasons said above

[El Bunto]

Eg how many weather diversions per year, how many diversions due to late arrivals at BHD

Which is interesting given BA's tendency to cancel Belfast City services with any prospect of adverse weather. Where they that cautious back in the Aldergrove days?

[cornishsimon]

BA are retiring the 763s soon resulting in shorthaul becoming all Airbus.


cs

[cessnarocket]

it appears Vueling has flown the nest? Wonder will they return the route development they received? All seems very hush hush

[AerRyan]

Can't see BA moving?

Why did EI relocate from BFS to BHD? Have all those reasons magically disappeared. I'm really becoming rather disappointed in my colleagues up north.

[DC9_10]

EI relocated because Brian Ambrose promised the earth and undercut charges drastically which ensured BHD ran at a loss. This is the same Mr Ambose who has stated that all European routes are performing excellent with Vuelling load factors in excess of 60 percent when in fact it was around 40. KLM have around 70 percent loads however if the majority are connecting there's not much revenue for the short sector. I wonder what will happen when the funding from taxpayers runs out on this service because let's face it, if it was so successful it would have been increased.

[SWBKCB]

Which is interesting given BA's tendency to cancel Belfast City services with any prospect of adverse weather

Not an issue specific to BHD - happens a lot to Domestic and "short" short haul routes.

[panpanpanpan]

Sarcon is either a very good sh*t stirrer or he knows something that the rest of us don't. I suspect the former.

My best guess would be that BA consolidate in some form with Aer Lingus, it doesn't really make any business sense having two forms of the same business "competing" with each other, add in the cost of one of the night stop aircraft being a home grown crewed variety but yet the other relies on crew being accommodated in a hotel somewhere and it gets hard to try and work it all out! Would this mean the night stopper BA coloured airbus now starts from London and let the green one do the first rotation out of Harbour?

Whatever the outcome Harbour in my opinion definitely needs another London route, Heathrow and London City are good routes but I would suggest the leisure market punter will look further afield to Stansted or Gatwick. I'm sure Harbour marketing team are scratching heads to try and work out what is going to happen in the short term never mind having a long term plan!

PS The almost gloating nature of posters on here when things appear to be going against Harbour is really quite mystifying, are there a lot of Aldergrove employees lurking on Pprune??

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

@EI-BUD propensity to use choice A over B is measurable at a segment level. If someone is using a Belfast Airport flying in on business their more likely to use BHD than BFS for reasons of convenience and speed. This added to those going the other way which may also have a BHD bias means BHD likely has a higher yielding traffic profile than BFS. I note all the good points about moving back to BFS involve saving some money.

As to BA leaving this to EI or vice versa, well the Oneworld London routes still see AY on HEL and IB on MAD, so no sign of that happening yet.

BMI moved to BHD because their passengers wanted it, the airline serves the market not the other way round. Remember they even served BFS again when BA left and dropped it soon after.